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Feudalism in Pakistan, how does it work?

cricketjoshila

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So i understand that feudalism is allowed in Pakistan.All jagirdars and their jagirs are intact etc.So how do they fuunction?Do they get to collect taxes on the land they own?How do they compensate the govt?What about the people who live on these lands?Who is the biggest feudal lord?
 
It would appear that feudalism is being delimited in definition to the existence of jagirs. This is a rather questionable conceptualisation of feudalism, but for the record it needs to be stated that in West Pakistan jagirs were abolished in 1959 when Ayub Khan's government passed the ordinance, West Pakistan Land Reforms Regulation No. 64.

When people refer to the prevalence of feudalism in Pakistan they are usually referring to the existence of a certain 'mindset' or the power of certain large landlords. But I would caution against presenting feudalism as being ubiquitous in Pakistan:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-to-politics&p=9383752&highlight=#post9383752
 
So i understand that feudalism is allowed in Pakistan.All jagirdars and their jagirs are intact etc.So how do they fuunction?Do they get to collect taxes on the land they own?How do they compensate the govt?What about the people who live on these lands?Who is the biggest feudal lord?

Most politicians are feudal landlords themselves which is why it carries on. There were reforms in the past but they have been reversed.

There are many feudal lords. Most of them don't keep all wealth and assets under their own name in order to avoid taxes and have assets distributed among family members and servants therefore it is very hard to equate one as the biggest landlord.
 
Jagirdaars cannot charge taxes. This is not British India.
 
People are brainwashed, they respect their feudal landlords/tribal chiefs out of some weird tribal/clan kinship. They essentially give up their independence and critical thinking to these exploitative feudals.
 
People are brainwashed, they respect their feudal landlords/tribal chiefs out of some weird tribal/clan kinship. They essentially give up their independence and critical thinking to these exploitative feudals.

Its the centuries of traditional norms and values which are etched in their minds. They feel obligated to perform roles assigned to them because they are socialised like that since the time they came to some sort of senses. It would be hard to re-socialise them. You cannot "free" them and leave them alone. They would not know what to do or where to go. They have to be given direction so that they find some meaning to their lives.

If you believe in liberalism, you have to act against liberalism and take away their freedom of choosing to be slaves in order to free them truly.
 
So i understand that feudalism is allowed in Pakistan.All jagirdars and their jagirs are intact etc.So how do they fuunction?Do they get to collect taxes on the land they own?How do they compensate the govt?What about the people who live on these lands?Who is the biggest feudal lord?

This is not feuadalism in the British sense. These are people with large farms and scores of farm workers who work on these farms. Ordinary person has no chance in dislodging them in elections as a) they are usually the richest of the area and b) the constituency will have a large proportion of their farm workers or their dependents.
 
This is not feuadalism in the British sense. These are people with large farms and scores of farm workers who work on these farms. Ordinary person has no chance in dislodging them in elections as a) they are usually the richest of the area and b) the constituency will have a large proportion of their farm workers or their dependents.

Is there a land ceiling act?
 
Most politicians are feudal landlords themselves which is why it carries on. There were reforms in the past but they have been reversed.

There are many feudal lords. Most of them don't keep all wealth and assets under their own name in order to avoid taxes and have assets distributed among family members and servants therefore it is very hard to equate one as the biggest landlord.

Is there a land ceiling act in Pakistan?Basically limiting the amount of land a person or family can hold.
 
It would appear that feudalism is being delimited in definition to the existence of jagirs. This is a rather questionable conceptualisation of feudalism, but for the record it needs to be stated that in West Pakistan jagirs were abolished in 1959 when Ayub Khan's government passed the ordinance, West Pakistan Land Reforms Regulation No. 64.

When people refer to the prevalence of feudalism in Pakistan they are usually referring to the existence of a certain 'mindset' or the power of certain large landlords. But I would caution against presenting feudalism as being ubiquitous in Pakistan:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-to-politics&p=9383752&highlight=#post9383752

Were the existing jagirs redistributed among the tenants? or did the feudal lords find loopholes to maintain their hold?
 
Is there a land ceiling act in Pakistan?Basically limiting the amount of land a person or family can hold.

Ayub Khan's government passed the first major piece of legislation concerning land reforms in Pakistan. This legislation was the West Pakistan Land Reforms Regulation 1959 (Regulation 64 of 1959). The salient features of this regulation included a ceiling on individual holdings. No one individual could own more than 500 acres of irrigated and 1,000 acres of unirrigated land or a maximum of 36,000 Produce Index Units (PIU), whichever was greater.

When Bhutto's Govt came, he further reduced it to 150 acres.

HOWEVER, from MY understanding of history, which could be wrong - these laws were overturned by religious fundamentalists who labelled these land reforms as Un-Islamic, containing a person from the right to own as much as he wishes.

This is why I think that Religion and Law should be separate. We have uneducated Mullah's telling us what is Islamic and what isn't. The irony..

Its like they consider themselves as God on Earth. What they've labelled wrong is supposedly also wrong in Islam now.
 
Ayub Khan's government passed the first major piece of legislation concerning land reforms in Pakistan. This legislation was the West Pakistan Land Reforms Regulation 1959 (Regulation 64 of 1959). The salient features of this regulation included a ceiling on individual holdings. No one individual could own more than 500 acres of irrigated and 1,000 acres of unirrigated land or a maximum of 36,000 Produce Index Units (PIU), whichever was greater.

When Bhutto's Govt came, he further reduced it to 150 acres.

HOWEVER, from MY understanding of history, which could be wrong - these laws were overturned by religious fundamentalists who labelled these land reforms as Un-Islamic, containing a person from the right to own as much as he wishes.

This is why I think that Religion and Law should be separate. We have uneducated Mullah's telling us what is Islamic and what isn't. The irony..

Its like they consider themselves as God on Earth. What they've labelled wrong is supposedly also wrong in Islam now.

No. That's the difference to India. These people were the politicians ... why would turkeys vote for Christmas?

Most of PPP is made up of these people. Bhutto clan being the most famous.

Thank you guys.

So these peasants and labourers normally vote for their land owner?

How are these land owners taxed?

Has there been any peasant uprising or protest?Are these Jagirdars involved in any violent acts?
 
Were the existing jagirs redistributed among the tenants? or did the feudal lords find loopholes to maintain their hold?

I think we need to be clear what we mean by jagirdars, as there were different systems in operation. It is complicated but is summarised well by Viqar Ahmed and Rashid Amjad, two Pakistani economists, in their work The Management of Pakistan's Economy:

“The grant of jagir means the transfer by government of some of its right to collect revenues in respect of a particular area and the enjoyment of the produce of any government land included in its limits. In some cases, the transfer of the right of revenue collection was also accompanied by a land grant…The cultivation of jagir lands was usually undertaken by zamindars…These zamindars either cultivated the land themselves or employed haris. Thus they became sub-lessees on the jagir land called mukhadims…Apart from mukhadims there were three types of jagirdars:

i) Jagirdars who were recipients of assignments of land revenues only with no interest in the land whatsoever;
ii) Jagirdars who had been given assignment of land revenues and were also granted mukhadimi rights without any payment;
iii) Jagirdars who were recipients of assignments of land revenues and who acquired mukhadimi rights after payment….

The final abolition of all types of jagirs came in the 1959 Land Reforms. Jagirs belonging to category (i) were abolished without any compensation. In the case of category (ii), the jagirdar-mukhadimi were allowed to retain the permissible area and any excess lands were resumed with no compensation. With regard to category (iii), the jagirdar-mukhadimi was compensated for any excess lands surrendered by him…As a result of the abolition of jagirs, the total amount accruing to the government in terms of land revenue was estimated at Rs 3 Million in 1960.”
 
i honestly dont know much about this stuff but I hear it all the time. I am a city boy and none of my family members have roots in the village life. But i do know they are some of the most powerful men in pakistan. their kids all go to the best schools and universities in the cities and drive the best cars, live in the biggest houses. they have political connections and are very influential.

Sindh and Punjab is the same story. The dynamics might be the same in the other two provinces but I just dont know.

I do believe that loyalty is rewarded so some of the "mazarey" or peasants are happy doing their bidding in politics. Which is why PPP always wins in SIndh and PML always wins in Punjab, most of their guys are well connected landlords and bureaucrats who are supported by landlords
 
Is there a land ceiling act in Pakistan?Basically limiting the amount of land a person or family can hold.

Ayub Khan's government passed the first major piece of legislation concerning land reforms in Pakistan. This legislation was the West Pakistan Land Reforms Regulation 1959 (Regulation 64 of 1959). The salient features of this regulation included a ceiling on individual holdings. No one individual could own more than 500 acres of irrigated and 1,000 acres of unirrigated land or a maximum of 36,000 Produce Index Units (PIU), whichever was greater.

When Bhutto's Govt came, he further reduced it to 150 acres.

HOWEVER, from MY understanding of history, which could be wrong - these laws were overturned by religious fundamentalists who labelled these land reforms as Un-Islamic, containing a person from the right to own as much as he wishes.

This is why I think that Religion and Law should be separate. We have uneducated Mullah's telling us what is Islamic and what isn't. The irony..

Its like they consider themselves as God on Earth. What they've labelled wrong is supposedly also wrong in Islam now.

Both Ayub and Bhutto introduced land ceiling acts but neither went far enough to address rural inequalities. They were based on individual and not family holdings.

Bhutto reduced the individual ceiling from 1,000 to 300 acres of non irrigated land and 500 to 150 acres of irrigated land.

The glaring loophole was that land would be transferred to family members. Bhutto himself divided his holdings amongst family members before the legislation became operative.
 
Both Ayub and Bhutto introduced land ceiling acts but neither went far enough to address rural inequalities. They were based on individual and not family holdings.

Bhutto reduced the individual ceiling from 1,000 to 300 acres of non irrigated land and 500 to 150 acres of irrigated land.

The glaring loophole was that land would be transferred to family members. Bhutto himself divided his holdings amongst family members before the legislation became operative.

It is true that land reforms were largely ineffectual and indeed the persistence of rural poverty is linked to unequal access to land. It is not just that rules were circumvented by transfers within families.

In the 1959 reforms, only a relatively small amount of land was handed over. Of this 57% was uncultivated and some of it was not deemed suitable for cultivation. There was some compensation granted even where the quality of land was poor. It was estimated that only 20 per cent of resumed land was actually sold to landless tenants with the remainder auctioned to richer farmers and civil and military officers. The concept of the Produce Index Units (PIU) - with a maximum of 36,000 units permitted - was also controversial. PIUs was a measure of land productivity - essentially a gross value per acre of land by type of soil was computed. It was based on pre-partition settlement figured so under-reported true value of land. 36,000 PIUs was often far greater than the upper ceiling of 500 acres of unirrigated land. It was estimated in Sindh it was possible for some individuals to own up to 1,800 acres!

On the 1972 reforms, we should note first Bhutto’s speech in March 1972, where he confidently proclaimed that land reform would ‘effectively break uptake iniquitous concentrations of landed wealth, reduce income disparities, increase production, reduce unemployment, streamline the administration of land revenue and agricultural taxation, and truly lay down the foundations of a relationship of honour and mutual benefits between landlords and tenants.’ Sadly, this rhetoric was not matched by reality. Less land was resumed than 1959 - only 0.001 per cent of the total farm area. The definition of ceiling involved PIUs again (limit being 15,000 this time), which again meant that the value of land was underestimated. As a result with 12,000 PIUs, it was estimated that a family could keep 400 acres in Punjab and 480 in Sindh. With special exemptions for tube wells and tractors, these upper limits were raised further to 932 irrigated acres in Punjab and 1,120 in Sindh. It was estimated that only 1 per cent of landless tenants and small owners benefited.

Interestingly in 1994, 6 per cent of the resumed land in 1959 still needed to be distributed with the corresponding figure being 39% the the land resumed in 1972.

So the failure of land reform is very real. However, this does not mean that we should stick the label feudalism on Pakistan, for reasons I have outlined before.
 
Both Ayub and Bhutto introduced land ceiling acts but neither went far enough to address rural inequalities. They were based on individual and not family holdings.

Bhutto reduced the individual ceiling from 1,000 to 300 acres of non irrigated land and 500 to 150 acres of irrigated land.

The glaring loophole was that land would be transferred to family members. Bhutto himself divided his holdings amongst family members before the legislation became operative.

Is there any estimate how much Land the likes of Bhutto may be holding?
 
Good thread.

How is it in India? I think it does not exist? Feudalism alone is the cause of many issues in our country, it needs to be rooted out.

No feudalism.Different states have different land ceiling limits.But almost nowhere does the limit exceeds 60acres.

In my state its 17.5acres.
 
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