FIFA U20 World Cup, South Korea 2017 : Tournament thread

[MMHS]

Not sure, if there is any thread on this.

One of the best tournaments I have seen at age level competition. Today Germany came from 1-3, after 89 minutes to force extra time against Zambia, in Round of 16. Unfortunately, they lost in extra time to a much stronger (physically) & probably over aged Zambian team.

France is the team to watch - this wonderful French U20 team will give run for money to many top International side. And, France is playing without their 4 top players, still eligible for U20 WC - Mabappe (Monaco), Osmane Dembelle (BVB), Kingsley Coman (Bayern) & Moussa Dembele (Celtic).

Won't be surprised, if we see a repeat of EURO Final - France Vs Portugal.

 

[Hasan123]

Will you be following the u21 euros [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

 

[MMHS]

Will you be following the u21 euros [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

I'll, but not that passionately. Somehow, France failed to qualify (That too against Macedonia!!!). Without France, Germany & Spain has to be the favorite.

 

[Hasan123]

I'll, but not that passionately. Somehow, France failed to qualify (That too against Macedonia!!!). Without France, Germany & Spain has to be the favorite.

I will try to follow as much as possible as well.

 

[Syed1]

Pay particular attention to this tournament's best performers, they will find their way in the major clubs in a year or two

 

[Hasan123]

No thread on the U21 tournament, so wanted to ask [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] are you watching the U21 semi between England vs Germany?

 

[WC-Passion]

England won the U-20 World Cup, and now are in the top 4 of the U-21 European Championships. The future looks bright. Hopefully England can pick up a second trophy here.

 

[MMHS]

No thread on the U21 tournament, so wanted to ask [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] are you watching the U21 semi between England vs Germany?

Germany & Spain has made the Final - probably Spain will beat Germany.

In Youth football, France, Germany & Spain produces the best talents in Europe because of their youth system. Also, in these 3 leagues, lots of young players are played, which helps the players to mature at early age & they are technically better skilled.

 

[MMHS]

England won the U-20 World Cup, and now are in the top 4 of the U-21 European Championships. The future looks bright. Hopefully England can pick up a second trophy here.

Difficult for English players to develop beyond a level, because their players chase money - so, they end up in top clubs, who plays them about 100 minutes in whole season, that too in cups. Take this kid Solanke - he has won an accolade won by Maradona, Fransiscoli, Ronaldo (fat), Rooney, Torres, Messi, Aguero, Pogba & Kieta - that's Golden Ball in U20 WC. This kid left Chelsea to triple his wage to 45K/week BP - that's 2.5mn in a year as base wage before turning 20 at Liverpool, who'll play him may be in 3/4 EPL matches in extended time to run the clock as substitute. Few years back Nathan Delfuneso & Yaya Sanogo (France) was similar hyped kid prodigy - so both went to Arsenal at 19 - 6/4 years later, now Delfuneso plays in Championship for Villa & Sonogo this year is released from Arsenal, after less than 100 minutes in 4 years for them - after winning U20 WC (joint highest scorer) in 2013, now at 23, he has no club. In same tournament, Pogba won Golden ball - now he is the most expensive player in world, because previous year (2012), he left MU for Juve, who started 18 years old Pogba in 35 of 38 Seria A matches in his first season.

Success for ENG youth teams are not new actually. Main reason being the way English youth players are groomed - football in UK is still taught with more physical attributes than skills & many of them in school were duel players of Football & Rugby; these makes English kids extremely tough & robust at teen age - they bully better skilled similar aged players in teen age. But, English players are not skilled ball players, neither they get the chance to develop their game intelligence between 19 to 23 at highest level, therefore most of them don't develop beyond Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Alex Ox, Walcott, Luke Shaw, Wilshire, Stones, Welbeck or Ross Barkley level.

This is the main reason, why England struggles in International tournaments as well - in friendlies, most teams play soft & safety first game, where English rams bulldoze around; but in competition football or qualifiers, teams don't give them that space or luxury. England's FIFA or ELO ranking is built on the results of friendlies (which also help them enjoying a higher seeding in qualifiers - hence often it's Scotland & Macedonia ...), but their tournament result is indicative of the talent/skill level. In recent times, Varane was shown red card after video replay, which must have irritated the French team - hence they tore apart English team with 10 men for entire 2nd half to win 3-2. Don't see Southgate's team advancing beyond round of 16 in Russia.

 

[Hasan123]

Germany & Spain has made the Final - probably Spain will beat Germany.

In Youth football, France, Germany & Spain produces the best talents in Europe because of their youth system. Also, in these 3 leagues, lots of young players are played, which helps the players to mature at early age & they are technically better skilled.

Yes look at how much experience Germany had. Spain have Assensio and Saul Nigez both who could be in the senior squad.

 

[sadida97]

Difficult for English players to develop beyond a level, because their players chase money - so, they end up in top clubs, who plays them about 100 minutes in whole season, that too in cups. Take this kid Solanke - he has won an accolade won by Maradona, Fransiscoli, Ronaldo (fat), Rooney, Torres, Messi, Aguero, Pogba & Kieta - that's Golden Ball in U20 WC. This kid left Chelsea to triple his wage to 45K/week BP - that's 2.5mn in a year as base wage before turning 20 at Liverpool, who'll play him may be in 3/4 EPL matches in extended time to run the clock as substitute. Few years back Nathan Delfuneso & Yaya Sanogo (France) was similar hyped kid prodigy - so both went to Arsenal at 19 - 6/4 years later, now Delfuneso plays in Championship for Villa & Sonogo this year is released from Arsenal, after less than 100 minutes in 4 years for them - after winning U20 WC (joint highest scorer) in 2013, now at 23, he has no club. In same tournament, Pogba won Golden ball - now he is the most expensive player in world, because previous year (2012), he left MU for Juve, who started 18 years old Pogba in 35 of 38 Seria A matches in his first season.

Success for ENG youth teams are not new actually. Main reason being the way English youth players are groomed - football in UK is still taught with more physical attributes than skills & many of them in school were duel players of Football & Rugby; these makes English kids extremely tough & robust at teen age - they bully better skilled similar aged players in teen age. But, English players are not skilled ball players, neither they get the chance to develop their game intelligence between 19 to 23 at highest level, therefore most of them don't develop beyond Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Alex Ox, Walcott, Luke Shaw, Wilshire, Stones, Welbeck or Ross Barkley level.

This is the main reason, why England struggles in International tournaments as well - in friendlies, most teams play soft & safety first game, where English rams bulldoze around; but in competition football or qualifiers, teams don't give them that space or luxury. England's FIFA or ELO ranking is built on the results of friendlies (which also help them enjoying a higher seeding in qualifiers - hence often it's Scotland & Macedonia ...), but their tournament result is indicative of the talent/skill level. In recent times, Varane was shown red card after video replay, which must have irritated the French team - hence they tore apart English team with 10 men for entire 2nd half to win 3-2. Don't see Southgate's team advancing beyond round of 16 in Russia.

I am Belgian, and a huge fan of the Belgian team. Unfortunately we haven't been able to perform very well in the last 2 tournaments. Do you think we have a good chance of doing well in 2018 world cup ? With Roberto Martinez as our coach, and vincent kompany back from injury.

 

[WC-Passion]

Difficult for English players to develop beyond a level, because their players chase money - so, they end up in top clubs, who plays them about 100 minutes in whole season, that too in cups. Take this kid Solanke - he has won an accolade won by Maradona, Fransiscoli, Ronaldo (fat), Rooney, Torres, Messi, Aguero, Pogba & Kieta - that's Golden Ball in U20 WC. This kid left Chelsea to triple his wage to 45K/week BP - that's 2.5mn in a year as base wage before turning 20 at Liverpool, who'll play him may be in 3/4 EPL matches in extended time to run the clock as substitute. Few years back Nathan Delfuneso & Yaya Sanogo (France) was similar hyped kid prodigy - so both went to Arsenal at 19 - 6/4 years later, now Delfuneso plays in Championship for Villa & Sonogo this year is released from Arsenal, after less than 100 minutes in 4 years for them - after winning U20 WC (joint highest scorer) in 2013, now at 23, he has no club. In same tournament, Pogba won Golden ball - now he is the most expensive player in world, because previous year (2012), he left MU for Juve, who started 18 years old Pogba in 35 of 38 Seria A matches in his first season.

Success for ENG youth teams are not new actually. Main reason being the way English youth players are groomed - football in UK is still taught with more physical attributes than skills & many of them in school were duel players of Football & Rugby; these makes English kids extremely tough & robust at teen age - they bully better skilled similar aged players in teen age. But, English players are not skilled ball players, neither they get the chance to develop their game intelligence between 19 to 23 at highest level, therefore most of them don't develop beyond Henderson, Sterling, Lallana, Alex Ox, Walcott, Luke Shaw, Wilshire, Stones, Welbeck or Ross Barkley level.

This is the main reason, why England struggles in International tournaments as well - in friendlies, most teams play soft & safety first game, where English rams bulldoze around; but in competition football or qualifiers, teams don't give them that space or luxury. England's FIFA or ELO ranking is built on the results of friendlies (which also help them enjoying a higher seeding in qualifiers - hence often it's Scotland & Macedonia ...), but their tournament result is indicative of the talent/skill level. In recent times, Varane was shown red card after video replay, which must have irritated the French team - hence they tore apart English team with 10 men for entire 2nd half to win 3-2. Don't see Southgate's team advancing beyond round of 16 in Russia.

Agreed. They problem with English players is clear, they're aren't that technical, they don't make great decisions and struggle to say disciplined.

Young players tend to fade away as they aren't give the best guidance and always are driven by the idea that going to a big club makes you a big name.

They waste 2-3 seasons on the bench and end up nothing like they should have been. Look at Kieran Gibbs, the guy is 27 and he's still on the bench of his club and has been for most of his career. People are still talking about his "potential" but at this point, he should be at his peak.

 

[MMHS]

I am Belgian, and a huge fan of the Belgian team. Unfortunately we haven't been able to perform very well in the last 2 tournaments. Do you think we have a good chance of doing well in 2018 world cup ? With Roberto Martinez as our coach, and vincent kompany back from injury.

No - Belgium players are not proud of their shirt. They are more happy to represent their clubs, something similar to French team. In Europe, most nationalist 2 teams are Italy & Germany - 8 WCs between them for a reason. On individual skills, Spain & France has produced equal number of top class players, if not more. Like I say, the day AB is kicked out of SAF team, they'll do better even without one of the ATG batsman - similarly Belgium has to kick out Hazard (or his back), at least has to tell him to fix his priorities. Otherwise, in a 4231 system

Courtois
Alderweild, Kompany, Vermalean, Vetronghen,
Wistel, Naingollan
Carrsasso, KDB, Hazard
Lukaku
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mignolet, Dembele, Batshuyai, Benteke, Miralas, Chadli, Fellaini, Throgan Hazzard, Thomas Meunier ...

..... should reach SF in Russia, at least.

Didn't like appointment of Martinez to be honest. Small club Manager - never handled players playing for top clubs. A Swansea, Wigan or Everton Manager can't manage players starting for Chelsea, MCity, MU, Atheletico, Liverpool, BVB .. should have gone for a former great- Schiffo, Ceulemans, Gerets or some cunning Italian/French tactician or German task master, who won't be overwhelmed by the players' star persona.

 

[MMHS]

Agreed. They problem with English players is clear, they're aren't that technical, they don't make great decisions and struggle to say disciplined.

Young players tend to fade away as they aren't give the best guidance and always are driven by the idea that going to a big club makes you a big name.

They waste 2-3 seasons on the bench and end up nothing like they should have been. Look at Kieran Gibbs, the guy is 27 and he's still on the bench of his club and has been for most of his career. People are still talking about his "potential" but at this point, he should be at his peak.

He signed a contract in 2011, which earned him $85K/week for sitting on Arsenal bench in 2012, while last year after winning League 1 & reaching CL SF, Bernard Mendy earned $35K/week in 2016 money for over 4,800 minutes of hard labor - what would you have done?

 

[WC-Passion]

No - Belgium players are not proud of their shirt. They are more happy to represent their clubs, something similar to French team. In Europe, most nationalist 2 teams are Italy & Germany - 8 WCs between them for a reason. On individual skills, Spain & France has produced equal number of top class players, if not more. Like I say, the day AB is kicked out of SAF team, they'll do better even without one of the ATG batsman - similarly Belgium has to kick out Hazard (or his back), at least has to tell him to fix his priorities. Otherwise, in a 4231 system

Courtois
Alderweild, Kompany, Vermalean, Vetronghen,
Wistel, Naingollan
Carrsasso, KDB, Hazard
Lukaku
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mignolet, Dembele, Batshuyai, Benteke, Miralas, Chadli, Fellaini, Throgan Hazzard, Thomas Meunier ...

..... should reach SF in Russia, at least.

Didn't like appointment of Martinez to be honest. Small club Manager - never handled players playing for top clubs. A Swansea, Wigan or Everton Manager can't manage players starting for Chelsea, MCity, MU, Atheletico, Liverpool, BVB .. should have gone for a former great- Schiffo, Ceulemans, Gerets or some cunning Italian/French tactician or German task master, who won't be overwhelmed by the players' star persona.

Sorry but no team with Vermaelen in the first XI defence will get anywhere. He's been terrible ever since he left Arsenal and the Barcelona move ruined his career. I'd much rather play Meunier from PSG at RB and move Vertoghen back to CB. I agree that Martinez is a poor appointment, the guy does not know how to make a defence work.

 

[WC-Passion]

He signed a contract in 2011, which earned him $85K/week for sitting on Arsenal bench in 2012, while last year after winning League 1 & reaching CL SF, Bernard Mendy earned $35K/week in 2016 money for over 4,800 minutes of hard labor - what would you have done?

Considering the fact that as Mendy I could easily get force a move to Manchester City and get a bumper contract 120-150k with a decent clean sheet bonus and be first team choice with UCL football (honestly £38m would not be anything for City to pay so the deal would go through) I'd go for him. As Gibbs my career is pretty much in ruins and I've won just the FA cup in all the time I've been there and probably will have to take a pay-cut to get a move for first team football.

 

[MMHS]

Sorry but no team with Vermaelen in the first XI defence will get anywhere. He's been terrible ever since he left Arsenal and the Barcelona move ruined his career. I'd much rather play Meunier from PSG at RB and move Vertoghen back to CB. I agree that Martinez is a poor appointment, the guy does not know how to make a defence work.

May be good idea. Meunier is a bit too tall for wing back, but other 3 in that back line is solid when fit. Vermaelen was so good with ball at feet (because he learned his game in 2 best schools of ball playing CBs - Ajax & Arsenal) that Barca paid crazy (in 2014 context) for him - unfortunately, injury never left him. He could have been a fantastic DM as well for his vision, passing range & interception.

 

[WC-Passion]

May be good idea. Meunier is a bit too tall for wing back, but other 3 in that back line is solid when fit. Vermaelen was so good with ball at feet (because he learned his game in 2 best schools of ball playing CBs - Ajax & Arsenal) that Barca paid crazy (in 2014 context) for him - unfortunately, injury never left him. He could have been a fantastic DM as well for his vision, passing range & interception.

I agree Meunier is a bit tall but Alonso has been fantastic for Chelsea this season and he's around 6'3 which is massive when you think about it. Vermaelen was once a good player however it was basically reduced to the subs bench because as you mentioned injury always was a problem. His (loan move I believe) to Roma didn't help either, Fazio, Rudiger and Manolas were always playing ahead of him and in the games he did play he lacked concentration and looked mediocre, his ball playing ability wasn't really there anymore.