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FIFA World Cup 2018 Bid [Russia] and 2022 [Qatar]

Who Will Host the 2018 FIFA World Cup?

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WhiteDudeFromTrinidad

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during the last few weeks there's been heavy support for Russia :ibutt

4/5 Russia

3/1 England

9/2 Portugal & Spain

33/1 Belgium & Netherlands

1000/1 Japan

1000/1 USA

1000/1 Australia
 
I hope Spain and Portugal get it - just to **** off the English media. And the Aussies to take the 2022 competition.
 
lol!

saw this the other day:

Sepp Blatter, the Fifa president The Fifa president, Sepp Blatter, already under fire over the bidding process, declined to comment on allegations that three executives took bribes. Photograph: Fabrice Coffrini/AFP/Getty Images

Three of the Fifa executive committee members who will decide the fate of the 2018 World Cup were tonight accused of taking bribes in a corruption scandal involving around $100m (£64.2m) of secret payments. The BBC's Panorama documentary, the timing of which had been branded "unpatriotic" by bid executives before broadcast and "frustrating" by the prime minister, David Cameron, also contained fresh allegations against the Concacaf president, Jack Warner, concerning a ticketing scandal linked to the 2010 World Cup.

Warner, and the three votes he controls, are seen as key to England's hopes of progressing beyond the first round and the bid's "three lions" – as the chief executive, Andy Anson, called them – in Prince William, David Beckham and Cameron will be called upon to try to limit the damage. Cameron will arrive in Zurich tomorrow and is expected to meet Warner, who has been scathing in his criticism of the BBC documentary.

Critics of the timing of the programme tonight insisted that the strength and topicality of the new allegations did not justify broadcasting it three days before the vote – particularly as the claims had nothing to do with the bidding process.

Warner, embroiled in an earlier ticketing scandal at the 2006 World Cup, was tonight alleged to have ordered tickets costing $84,240 from the Fifa ticket office for the 2010 tournament but that the deal fell through.

On the back of the Sunday Times investigation that led to the suspension of six Fifa officials but created a climate of suspicion among the electorate, the Panorama allegations are likely to lead to further hostility against the British media.

The claims will lead to renewed calls for Fifa to answer outstanding questions over the ISL affair, which triggered one of Switzerland's biggest criminal fraud cases, and justify the continued presence of the individuals concerned on its executive committee.

One of the three, Cameroon's Issa Hayatou, who has never been named before in connection with the affair, appears on a detailed list of 175 alleged secret payments, made betweeen 1989 and 1999, from the now defunct sports marketing company International Sports and Leisure routed via a series of front companies in Liechtenstein to top Fifa officials. Hayatou, once seen as a key target for England, was understood to have reacted furiously to the earlier Sunday Times investigation and the three‑year suspension handed down to Adamu and will be further angered by the latest allegations.

The Paraguayan head of the South American football federation, Nicolás Léoz, also on the list, was named in connection with two ISL payments totalling $130,000 during court proceedings in 2008 but Panorama alleged that he received three further payments of $200,000 each. He was lobbied only last week by the England bid team. The payments list shows that a Liechtenstein company, Sanud, received $9.5m. Ricardo Teixeira, head of the Brazilian Football Confederation, the third executive member named, was linked to Sanud by a 2001 Brazilian Senate investigation which found it had secretly channelled money to him.

Six ISL managers were tried in 2008 for misusing company money, but they were not tried for commercial bribery as it was not an offence in Switzerland until 2001.

The Fifa president, Sepp Blatter, already under fire over the opaque bidding process, declined to comment on the three Fifa executives alleged to have taken bribes.

The global sports rights agency was declared bankrupt in May 2001 but the fallout continued until June this year, when the second of two Swiss court cases ended with an agreement to pay a £3.5m to settle the case anonymously. At the time Fifa said: "It is important to recall that the decision was made on matters which took place prior to the year 2000 and that there has been no court conviction against Fifa. In addition, the Fifa president has been cleared of any wrongdoing in this matter." Fifa refused to comment tonight.

BBC insiders said that there was a strong public interest rationale in showing the film before the vote took place and that they had been editing it right up until the last minute, having acquired the key document only in recent weeks.

Anson insisted that although England were "underdogs" he remained confident that there was a credible "path to victory" as the last‑minute lobbying intensified. He reiterated his concerns about Panorama. "Of course I'm disappointed with the timing and it's certainly not going to win any votes," said Anson, who said he would not be watching the programme.

"It's a reality, it's a small group of 23 people; in a way it's a brotherhood of executive committee members. If you hurt one of them, of course it has an impact on the others. That's just inevitable. I don't think that we are going to be derailed by it, we just have to be aware of the implications and act accordingly. But we'd be naïve if we though it would not have an impact."
Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/29/panorama-fifa-world-cup-bribes


This might well kill England's bid, but we'll see.

It really wouldn't be a surprise if true, there is so much money in football that corruption is a natural partner for it.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
I hope Spain and Portugal get it - just to **** off the English media. And the Aussies to take the 2022 competition.
Click to expand...

according to some, the English media have sabotaged England's bid with the Sunday Times sting, Lord Triesman sting, and last night's Panorama program

well done to the English media imo - they're doing the right thing

i wish the T&T media went after our corrupt leaders in the same manner, especially that muddac--t Jack Warner
 
FIFA is another sham organization. Rather than tackle corruption, there motto is just to bury whoever dares to oppose them.
 
everything has changed on the markets. Inside info perhaps?

England has been smashed off the boards and is now favourite to host the 2018 World Cup

5/4 England

15/8 Russia

9/2 Spain & Portugal

40/1 Holland & Belgium
 
I don't understand why england, a country of such high morals would chase jack warners vote so needily and partake in such a corrupt process.


What's even more interesting is a letter i read in the guardian today which questioned the sun and their outrage at the bbc for showing it's panaroma programme and then compared this to it's stance over the allegations about pakistan cricket in the summer.
 
WhiteDudeFromTrinidad said:
everything has changed on the markets. Inside info perhaps?

England has been smashed off the boards and is now favourite to host the 2018 World Cup

5/4 England

15/8 Russia

9/2 Spain & Portugal

40/1 Holland & Belgium
Click to expand...

where are you checking this?
 
Well Vladimir Putin has announced that he will not be going to Zurich tomorrow for the whole thing and that can only mean that he has inside information that Russia will not get it.

The 2018 world cup host country will be England now, no way they can lose this, there isnt any doubt about it.
 
Good, England deserve to host it.
 
lol the Qatar bid is ridiculous...the country is tiny and consists of only one city...so whats it going to be like...10 massive stadiums all lined up next to each other? Whats the point of that? :))
 
Come on, Spain should win the 2018 bid, would love to see how the Catalan aka Spanish team gets support at the Bernabeu. :D
 
Geordie Ahmed said:
Why?

I do hope England get to host it BUT why do they deserve to host it?
Click to expand...

Because football needs to come home.

I am only kidding. In all honesty, English fans are fairly passionate. England has the infrastructure for it. I don't see them having to have massive expenditures into upgrading their stadiums. And with the Olympics in 2012, much of the city's upgrades will have taken place (IE like the subway and such). Furthermore, England will have many new and recent stadiums by then such as Olympic Stadium/new WHL/Emirates still young/Wembley still young.

While Spain and Portugal possess many of these traits, I think they are in much larger financial trouble than the UK and I think we will see that really come to the fore within the next year. Furthermore, as I stated early...when they are in trouble, not sure if they would have as much money as the UK to throw such a good World Cup (relatively speaking). For hosting games, a lot of money has to go into upgrades and as I said London (which I anticipate over half of the games will be held), will have that done.

Russia is a very good bid as well but Moscow's transportation system does not even come close to matching London. I think England are better to host than Russia but Russia would not be a bad host either.

Qatar is a joke. Cannot play in that heat and honestly, could they even fill up the stadiums for the games? How big is their country...I am sure people will feel its overkill with essentially 54 games in one city.

I hope Aussies get 2022.
 
If england gets it then it will be spread all over the country and I reckon we could do a good job of hosting it providing the games are evenly spread around - it certainly won't be london centric so the olympics don't really matter that much as far as the bigger picture is concerned

England are a strong candidate BUT I don't think it is a case of them deserving it
 
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I hope England gets it. More accessible and less xenophobic than Russia.

And a few Russian stadiums have those annoying race tracks around the field.

Have any of you seen the stadiums Qatar have in mind? Absolutely ridiculous.
 
Did anyone see what happened yday when Birmingham city and Aston Villa were playing? :))
I doubt england would get it after those scenes.
 
amirfanforlife said:
Did anyone see what happened yday when Birmingham city and Aston Villa were playing? :))
I doubt england would get it after those scenes.
Click to expand...

Those shameful scenes were nothing compared to what happens on the streets of Russia every weekend.
 
For various reasons, it is time for England to host another tournament - Russia have only become a footballing nation of any significance because of sugar daddies pumping ridiculous amounts of money into the system. Russia don't fill me with confidence as potential hosts, underlined by the technical faults in their bid which FIFA have sensed, and Spain/Portgual + Holland/Belgium have hosted more recently than England. England also have a fantastic bid technically and the tournament would go down superbly well here. I don't think England will get it, but they are easily the best choice.
 
England has by far the best all-round bid, but wont get it - and not for footballing reasons. It's all about power politics these days, with nations forming strategic alliances based on diplomatic considerations.

And it's the same reason why we always get **** poor points in the Eurovision Song Contest, regardless of the quality of our entry.
 
Whether they deserve to or not is a moot point...for whatever reason England will host the 2018 world cup, its so obvious that theres no need even for this charade of a vote..through their lobbying England has managed to secure the hosting rights to the 2018 world cup.
 
jaspa888 said:
England has by far the best all-round bid, but wont get it - and not for footballing reasons. It's all about power politics these days, with nations forming strategic alliances based on diplomatic considerations.

And it's the same reason why we always get **** poor points in the Eurovision Song Contest, regardless of the quality of our entry.
Click to expand...
Well..Hhmmm....Yes,..
Speakers on your TV not bust by any chance, are they ?
 
The United Kingdom for the last few years has had some pretty reasonable Eurovision entries, certainly better than a lot of the Baltic dross we have to sit through. Jaspa is correct, since the Second Gulf War the EU has completely turned on the UK in many ways.
 
Whoever gets it is required to change it's tax laws so that FIFA and anyone else associated with the World Cup, including players and officials, gets Tax excemption.
Furthermore, companies associated with the Tournament,........ Marketing, Advertising, Products etc. should also be treated favourably by the Taxman.

I think if England win the bid, I'm going to ask the Taxman for this favourable treatment, for myself, my family and anyone else that I know .............
Why ?
Because my kids play with a ball in the garden that has the Fifa logo on it!!
 
Whippy said:
The United Kingdom for the last few years has had some pretty reasonable Eurovision entries, certainly better than a lot of the Baltic dross we have to sit through. Jaspa is correct, since the Second Gulf War the EU has completely turned on the UK in many ways.
Click to expand...
Last time I checked, the UK was part of Europe, and part of the EU.

Therefore, according to your logic, The UK has also turned upon itself.
 
:facepalm:

I clearly meant the rest of the EU, stop being such a child.

Watching these bids, England clearly blow everybody else out of the water here. Please please PLEASE give it to us. I'm sorry, but I might as well say what everyone else is thinking - can you imagine the World Cup in RUSSIA?
 
People wanting the World Cup to be in Australia are being outright ridiculous.

Imagine having to get up 6 in the morning for a Football final. Sucks doesnt it.
 
Javelin said:
Last time I checked, the UK was part of Europe, and part of the EU.

Therefore, according to your logic, The UK has also turned upon itself.
Click to expand...

You really are a pedant.

It is no secret that Blair's support of the illegal war in Iraq has damaged UK's diplomatic standing - both in the EU and in the wider world.
 
Pak_Jazba said:
People wanting the World Cup to be in Australia are being outright ridiculous.

Imagine having to get up 6 in the morning for a Football final. Sucks doesnt it.
Click to expand...

UK time for the World Cup games in Australia:

Lunchtime kick-offs: 2.45am - 4.45am
Afternoon kick-offs: 5am - 7am
Evening kick-offs: 10am - Noon

Pretty much impossible to follow if you lead a normal life.

I agree with you, give it to the United States so we can watch it :D
 
Whippy said:
:facepalm:

I clearly meant the rest of the EU, stop being such a child.

Watching these bids, England clearly blow everybody else out of the water here. Please please PLEASE give it to us. I'm sorry, but I might as well say what everyone else is thinking - can you imagine the World Cup in RUSSIA?
Click to expand...
Stop having a victim mentality where the rest of Europe is concerned.
The World does not start, stop and rotate around the English-speaking countries.
The Europeans, South Americans, ex-Soviet Union, African, Asian - to name a few - Nations do exist, and often can/do as well as, if not better than, the english-speaking World.
 
@Today 10:38
Whippy said:
Australia or the US for 2022 please.
Click to expand...
@Today 10: 43
UK time for the World Cup games in Australia:
Lunchtime kick-offs: 2.45am - 4.45am
Afternoon kick-offs: 5am - 7am
Evening kick-offs: 10am - Noon

Pretty much impossible to follow if you lead a normal life.

I agree with you, give it to the United States so we can watch it
Click to expand...

Wow - that was a fast change.

5 minutes, from 'give it to the Aussies' to 'no, don't'
 
Clearly I analysed the facts and changed my mind.

The politics in recent Eurovision contests has been plain to see.

No offence but I think you just hate the UK. It would explain why you're going after everyone in such an ignorant and pedantic manner here.
 
Watched the footage from FIFA headquarters.

England made the most inspirational and passionate presentation, and they have the best all-round bid with some fantastic individuals behind it.

Despite the various stumbling blocks that the bid has encountered, purely on the basis of what we have seen, they are the deserving hosts of the 2018 World Cup.

It might not come off on this occasion due to the aforementioned mitigating factors, but it has been a great effort.
 
Whippy said:
It might not come off on this occasion due to the aforementioned mitigating factors, but it has been a great effort.
Click to expand...

I think it will go to England because of the mitigating factors, FIFA board members are going to be worried that if they vote against England they will look like they have done it out of spite and it'll look dodgy, the sly and cunning English media as well as the intense lobbying has taken this world cup away from Russia.

The games over...World Cup 2018 will be hosted in England.
 
Cameron was seriously convincing in the presentation. Smug sod for sure, but he is at least the cleverest British politician since Blair.
 
hasanb said:
Dude seriously...how can you stage a world cup in one city...what on earth is the point of that? 10 stadiums lined up next to each other...?
Click to expand...

who cares! I could pop over and watch it easily :misbah
 
hasanb said:
Dude seriously...how can you stage a world cup in one city...what on earth is the point of that? 10 stadiums lined up next to each other...?
Click to expand...

Why not? Is there some law?

My only issue is a cultural one - I dont think Qatar is ready for Brazilian females rampaging on their streets !
 
Spain/Portugal is a safe option, Portgual hosted Euro 2004 impressively, and the two Iberian nations have a strong footballing tradition and stunning stadia. I would be reasonably happy with this result, if a little disappointed.

I don't think Russia are either ready yet or totally convincing in their claims.

The England bid comes with its controversies, but nobody has competed with the passion on display from this bid. The facilities, stadia, public interest, atmosphere and accessibility are all absolutely second-to-none. They would produce the best tournament based on everything I've seen thus far.

Qatar would be a dreadful place to host a World Cup for so many reasons.
 
Last edited:
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
who cares! I could pop over and watch it easily :misbah
Click to expand...

:)) cant argue with that reasoning now!

I seriously think the GCC should consider a joint bid, I mentioned this in another thread earlier but if you imagine a world cup with the following host cities:

Doha, Manama, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Jeddah, Muscat, Kuwait City,

These Gulf states certainly have the means to do it and imo that would be a great world cup with the middle east being well and truly represented and not taking place in just one city!

As for the problem of who gets automatic qualification, I would recommend that no team gets automatic qualification for this proposed world cup and we just go through the normal AFC qualifiers.
 
MIG said:
Why not? Is there some law?

My only issue is a cultural one - I dont think Qatar is ready for Brazilian females rampaging on their streets !
Click to expand...

Theres no law but it doesnt make sense...if all the matches are taking place in the same city...whats the point of building 10 stadiums in that city just for the heck of it? What will be the use of 10 stadiums in a tiny city after the world cup?

Instead of such a travesty they should have a Pan-Arab world cup as I have suggested above.
 
hasanb said:
Theres no law but it doesnt make sense...if all the matches are taking place in the same city...whats the point of building 10 stadiums in that city just for the heck of it? What will be the use of 10 stadiums in a tiny city after the world cup?

Instead of such a travesty they should have a Pan-Arab world cup as I have suggested above.
Click to expand...

The Qatar team has proposed dismantling the stadiums afterwards and donating them to poorer nations.
 
tahaqureshi said:
The Qatar team has proposed dismantling the stadiums afterwards and donating them to poorer nations.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you'll realise how absurd that sounds...

If they can do that then you have to question the standard of the stadiums...its not exactly as if you can dismantle Wembley put it on the back of a truck and cart it off to Uganda really can you?
 
Based on presentations alone, it has to be said that Englands was the best, but the Russian presentation was also a lot better and a lot more emotional than I thought it would be.
 
We have the 2012 Olympics, 2013 Champions Trophy & now the 2018 Fifa WC would be icing on the cake! Come on ENGLAND. This your moment! Get the greatest spectacle on Earth - The Football WC. Hours away for the verdict. Tension increases.
 
BoomBoomCricket said:
We have the 2012 Olympics, 2013 Champions Trophy & now the 2018 Fifa WC would be icing on the cake! Come on ENGLAND. This your moment! Get the greatest spectacle on Earth - The Football WC. Hours away for the verdict. Tension increases.
Click to expand...

As a German fan I wouldnt mind England getting it I think they can do a very good job of it. Also you forget to mention the 2011 Champions League final at Wembley from your list.
 
latest update, England are even money favourite to win the bid with Russia a tad over 2/1 :ibutt



Specials - World Cup 2018 Host?
Betting on:
Total matched on this event: £588,014

Evens - England
Betting summary - Volume: £325,194


85/40 Russia
Betting summary - Volume: £170,173


9/2 Portugal & Spain
Betting summary - Volume: £76,073


50/1 Holland & Belgium
Betting summary - Volume: £11,341
 
hasanb said:
I'm sure you'll realise how absurd that sounds...

If they can do that then you have to question the standard of the stadiums...its not exactly as if you can dismantle Wembley put it on the back of a truck and cart it off to Uganda really can you?
Click to expand...

air-conditioned stadia, dude.

doesn't get any more amazing than that.
 
hasanb said:
....and yet they can somehow be dismantled and donated to other countries? Its a stadium yaar...not a lego model!
Click to expand...

I'm sure you've heard of Japan's proposal to build holographic stadiums outside of the country so that people who can't make it to Japan can still watch the games live...almost.
 
tahaqureshi said:
I'm sure you've heard of Japan's proposal to build holographic stadiums outside of the country so that people who can't make it to Japan can still watch the games live...almost.
Click to expand...

I actually hadnt heard of that but thats one hell of a stunning idea...still though, thats virtual 3D reality and even then the technology for it isnt quite complete yet.

Its not really correlated with the absurdity that Qatar are proposing. I personally hope Australia gets 2022...and not the US I really hated football being played in American football stadiums in 1994.
 
hasanb said:
....and yet they can somehow be dismantled and donated to other countries? Its a stadium yaar...not a lego model!
Click to expand...

dude, they're not going to cut corners, they sh***ing money.

will probably be something really hi-tech.
 
Ahmed Zulfiqar said:
dude, they're not going to cut corners, they sh***ing money.

will probably be something really hi-tech.
Click to expand...

I still find it absurd its like I said you cant imagine shipping wembley off to another country can you?

However lets say that it is possible, in such a case it would probably require obscene amounts of money to dismantle the whole thing properly then to ship it piece by piece and then to re construct the whole thing in the new country...its basically akin to building a new stadium in that country...but costing 10 times more.

Wouldnt that country be happier with recieving that money in food or development aid as opposed to getting a random stadium for it?

Imho yaar whivhever way you look at it...its an ill thought out idea that just doesnt make sense.
 
From BBC Russia's Rafael Saakov in Moscow: Breaking news from Russia: Prime Minister Putin is ready to leave for Zurich if Russia wins the bid. This was confirmed by press-secretary Dmitry Peskov
 
Whippy said:
Clearly I analysed the facts and changed my mind.

The politics in recent Eurovision contests has been plain to see.

No offence but I think you just hate the UK. It would explain why you're going after everyone in such an ignorant and pedantic manner here.
Click to expand...
No, I do not hate the UK.
I live in it, my kids are 'English' (-'cause they were born here), and support England. I work here, will retire here, and will probably be buried here.

However, I do object to illogical, pathetic arguments, based upon the concept that somehow England still rules the waves, and when it does'nt, it's english speaking subsidiaries/colonies, such as Australia, does so.

Wake up, face reality. The UK is part of Europe, and the EU.
As far as the EU/Europe is concerned, there is no 'us' and 'them', only all of 'us'.
 
Javelin said:
No, I do not hate the UK.
I live in it, my kids are 'English' (-'cause they were born here), and support England. I work here, will retire here, and will probably be buried here.

However, I do object to illogical, pathetic arguments, based upon the concept that somehow England still rules the waves, and when it does'nt, it's english speaking subsidiaries/colonies, such as Australia, does so.

Wake up, face reality. The UK is part of Europe, and the EU.
As far as the EU/Europe is concerned, there is no 'us' and 'them', only all of 'us'.
Click to expand...

The reality is that England has the most watched and second best supported league in the world (after Germany), the best stadia (already built and fit for purpose), and the best infrastructure. It is also small, so travelling from city to city is easy. While there is some racial tension, it is nothing compared to Russia and Spain.

So why is it not easily the best bid? It has nothing to do with being a Little Englander, and everything about common sense.
 
Peter Allen from BBC Five live reckons Spain/Portugal have the bid in the bag despite a good presentation by the England team.
 
90MPH said:
Peter Allen from BBC Five live reckons Spain/Portugal have the bid in the bag despite a good presentation by the England team.
Click to expand...

Thats a strange assessment...Spain/Portugal dont even seem to be in the running!
 
Spain/Portugal seems to have done a deal with Qatar, and have been supremely confident since Monday when they announced that 'all the fishes have been sold'.
 
However then again....


1302: We can only speculate on how the voting process will pan out in the inner sanctum of Fifa HQ in Zurich, but BBC Sport's editor David Bond has given his thoughts on how England might succeed. "If England can get enough votes to progress past the first round and the Netherlands-Belgium are eliminated, England would hope that the latter's supporters - Uefa president Michel Platini and Belgium's Dr Michel D'Hooghe - would switch to them. That could give the England bid enough votes to beat the Russians and set up a showdown with Spain-Portugal in the final round."

^From the BBC website
 
jaspa888 said:
The reality is that England has the most watched and second best supported league in the world (after Germany), the best stadia (already built and fit for purpose), and the best infrastructure. It is also small, so travelling from city to city is easy. While there is some racial tension, it is nothing compared to Russia and Spain.

So why is it not easily the best bid? It has nothing to do with being a Little Englander, and everything about common sense.
Click to expand...
If you read carefully, I am not against England's bid. In fact I would welcome it
They are more in response to the trash that Whippy keeps spouting.
 
Javelin said:
If you read carefully, I am not against England's bid. In fact I would welcome it
They are more in response to the trash that Whippy keeps spouting.
Click to expand...

Mate, it does come across as you having an England-bias - whether that is the case or not.

All Whippy is saying is that our diplomatic standing in the world has fallen since 2003 and the War in Iraq. I agree with that.

That means important decision (FIFA WC) and flippant ones (Eurovision) mean that England doesnt get the support it necessarily deserves.

Our bid is SO strong on all levels compared to Russia and Portugal/Spain, that there really should not even be a doubt in this process. That fact that England are likely to finish third justifies Whippy's comment that decisions are made on parochial lines, rather than the quality of the product.
 
jaspa888 said:
Spain/Portugal seems to have done a deal with Qatar, and have been supremely confident since Monday when they announced that 'all the fishes have been sold'.
Click to expand...

Sounds like one of those conspiracy theories that are always getting shot down around here.
 
jaspa888 said:
Mate, it does come across as you having an England-bias - whether that is the case or not.

All Whippy is saying is that our diplomatic standing in the world has fallen since 2003 and the War in Iraq. I agree with that.

That means important decision (FIFA WC) and flippant ones (Eurovision) mean that England doesnt get the support it necessarily deserves.

Our bid is SO strong on all levels compared to Russia and Portugal/Spain, that there really should not even be a doubt in this process. That fact that England are likely to finish third justifies Whippy's comment that decisions are made on parochial lines, rather than the quality of the product.
Click to expand...

I thank you.
 
betting has been suspended (this is normal) prices at the time of suspension were broadly the same as my last update. England even money favourite, Russia a tad over 2/1 second favourite, Spain & Portugal 5/1, 50/1 and bigger the rags

result to be announced at 15.10 GMT (about 40 minutes from now)
 
can someone tell me the candidates? I'll add a poll.
 
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