First female Imam leading Friday prayer in India faces ‘death threat’

[Heisenberg]

Eaxctly. We should admit that there are a lot of things in Islam where there is scope for debate and interpretation. But some things like who should be imam and whether homosesuality is allowed arent even debatable, its plain black and white.

Some people say its discrimination, it is not. Its just a system and a way of life. We have to look at it as a complete system. When things are looked at in Islolation or when one particular thing is picked and put into a completely different system and then judged, it would obviously not look very pleasing.

No. It is discrimination.

 

[Madplayer]

No. It is discrimination.

As per some ideologies.
Now thinking about it in that sense, i feel every action we take, every ideology we follow is discriminatory to one person or the other. We just compensate one thing for the other.

 

[Heisenberg]

As per some ideologies.
Now thinking about it in that sense, i feel every action we take, every ideology we follow is discriminatory to one person or the other. We just compensate one thing for the other.

Okay, let's take this case, if a woman decides to lead prayers and people pray behind her, who is getting discrimated against?

 

[Madplayer]

Okay, let's take this case, if a woman decides to lead prayers and people pray behind her, who is getting discrimated against?

People who believe their religion is being twisted?

 

[kaayal]

So you are OK with this? I would like to get a women’s perspective here:

Are you ok with men being allowed to lead prayers however a woman is not allowed to lead prayer of men? Doesn’t it feel discrimination? To me as an outsider it feels discrimination if I am capable enough to do something but not allowed to do it because of my gender due to historical rituals or religious practices..

What are your views on it?

Prayer in Islam is an act that involves different movements of the body. By standing in the front, one may divert the men’s attention from concentrating in the Prayer and the spiritual atmosphere required. And i think this reason is valid too because you are submitting in front of Allah, there should not be any distractions of that sort.

It's not like female imam thing doen't exist, we have a female imam when it's women only prayer or in our household. Females are exempted from prayers during menstrual period. But men have to pray everyday in a month. Friday jummuah prayer in the mosque is compulsory for men, not for us. There are many such things which are made easy for females.

One can't change/innovate Islam and it's rules according to their convenience. We should follow the religion in it's original form (as far as we could) and then apply our innovation on the worldly matters. There is no empowering of women by putting them infront of men in namaz. Everyone are equal infront of Allah.

 

[humzy]

Prayer in Islam is an act that involves different movements of the body. By standing in the front, one may divert the men’s attention from concentrating in the Prayer and the spiritual atmosphere required. And i think this reason is valid too because you are submitting in front of Allah, there should not be any distractions of that sort.

It's not like female imam thing doen't exist, we have a female imam when it's women only prayer or in our household. Females are exempted from prayers during menstrual period. But men have to pray everyday in a month. Friday jummuah prayer in the mosque is compulsory for men, not for us. There are many such things which are made easy for females.

One can't change/innovate Islam and it's rules according to their convenience. We should follow the religion in it's original form (as far as we could) and then apply our innovation on the worldly matters. There is no empowering of women by putting them infront of men in namaz. Everyone are equal infront of Allah.

Wait a minute, are you saying that a females attention cannot be diverted if there is an attractive male leading the prayer in front of them?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The number of Koran-only muslims in North America is rising pretty fast. They have a far bigger share of the younger generation than you'd like to think.

and they'll disappear within the same generation. Which is a shame in many ways, Hadith is sometimes put on a pedestal alongside the Quran, and that to my mind is wrong. So there is a logic to the Quranist argument which I agree with. But usually it ends up being used to tear down the foundations of the religion itself, quite often by those claiming to be ex-Muslims.

You remind me a lot of the other Bengali atheist who used to post here, the one and only Qazzarfan. I do miss his contributions, but you are a fine and timely replacement.

 

[humzy]

People who believe their religion is being twisted?

What on earth? Discrimination is where someone is being treated differently based on something i.e race, gender, wealth. How are religious people being treated differently if a woman leads prayer? The ONLY discrimination occurring is the banning of someone being able to lead a prayer simply based on their gender, IMO leading prayer should be based on ability and understanding like with most other things in life.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Wait a minute, are you saying that a females attention cannot be diverted if there is an attractive male leading the prayer in front of them?

It is rare that females get physically attracted by males who are not their husbands. While the same is not true for males. That is why it is women who must cover up and protect their modesty. Men will be just men.

 

[big_gamer007]

Is he going to be doing a male stripper routine?

Women will be doing that routine that is why they are not allowed?

 

[big_gamer007]

Prayer in Islam is an act that involves different movements of the body. By standing in the front, one may divert the men’s attention from concentrating in the Prayer and the spiritual atmosphere required. And i think this reason is valid too because you are submitting in front of Allah, there should not be any distractions of that sort.

It's not like female imam thing doen't exist, we have a female imam when it's women only prayer or in our household. Females are exempted from prayers during menstrual period. But men have to pray everyday in a month. Friday jummuah prayer in the mosque is compulsory for men, not for us. There are many such things which are made easy for females.

One can't change/innovate Islam and it's rules according to their convenience. We should follow the religion in it's original form (as far as we could) and then apply our innovation on the worldly matters. There is no empowering of women by putting them infront of men in namaz. Everyone are equal infront of Allah.

Hmm I find it very regressive and brainwashed attitude if I’ll be honest.. But it’s fine as long as you guys are happy doing what you want it’s your life shouldn’t matter to anyone else..

Thanks for giving your perspective.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hmm I find it very regressive and brainwashed attitude if I’ll be honest.. But it’s fine as long as you guys are happy doing what you want it’s your life shouldn’t matter to anyone else..

Thanks for giving your perspective.

Good to see that you realize that it should not matter to anyone else, as earlier you were comparing others who disagreed with this innovation with isis and taliban.

 

[Madplayer]

What on earth? Discrimination is where someone is being treated differently based on something i.e race, gender, wealth. How are religious people being treated differently if a woman leads prayer? The ONLY discrimination occurring is the banning of someone being able to lead a prayer simply based on their gender, IMO leading prayer should be based on ability and understanding like with most other things in life.

There is so much wrong with this post that i dont know where to begin. Shocking idealism and no relation with reality whatsoever. I will say only one thing, People will always be treated differently based on genders (equal but different), no matter which ideology you pick. It used to happen yesterday, it happens today, it happens in the most conservative of societies, and it happens in the most open societies as well. Its more of a social necessity to maintain balance quintessential for survival of societies. Equality doesnt necessarily mean similarity.

 

[CricketCartoons]

There is so much wrong with this post that i dont know where to begin. Shocking idealism and no relation with reality whatsoever. I will say only one thing, People will always be treated differently based on genders (equal but different), no matter which ideology you pick. It used to happen yesterday, it happens today, it happens in the most conservative of societies, and it happens in the most open societies as well. Its more of a social necessity to maintain balance quintessential for survival of societies. Equality doesnt necessarily mean similarity.

This is what I tell the critics of the caste system, that it is based on division of labour, which has always been there and always will be. It is an excellent system of maintaining balance and efficiency in society, only problem is that it turned hereditary, when in original caste system was fluid and was based on who people are instead of what their parents were. But instead of removing this corruption, the progressives want to do away with the entire caste system itself. These idealists have spent time in a library at best, havent seen the real world at the grassroots level.

 

[Heisenberg]

People who believe their religion is being twisted?

Yes in the same way racists are getting discriminated against with anti racism laws and bigots are getting discriminated against with freedom of religion.

 

[Heisenberg]

It is rare that females get physically attracted by males who are not their husbands. While the same is not true for males. That is why it is women who must cover up and protect their modesty. Men will be just men.

This post is quite something. Women are quite capable of feeling sexually attracted to men. That's kind of how genes are passed on.

And yeah the classic 'men will be just men'. Let me guess, you think women getting raped is their own fault too?

 

[Abdullah719]

A balanced response. If you don't like it, just ignore them. Taking things into your own hands is when your troubles potentially start.

Though no religious group or scholar has reacted to the event so far, Ms. Jamida has faced a barrage of criticism on social media.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/kerala-woman-leads-jumma-prayers/article22537849.ece

People on social media will always talk. Those who matter have ignored it.

 

[Abdullah719]

Yes she made an error there but mistakes happen sometimes. I am sure you dont mean she is incapable of leading prayers. She is capable but not allowed.

I am not sure if it was a mistake. She said it without any hesitation and none of the 'followers' said anything.

Normally when an Imam makes a mistake, someone says 'subhan'Allah' or something to that effect so that the Imam is aware that a mistake has been made and the prostration of forgetfulness can be performed later.

Regardless, it's not about capability. The justification used for rejecting the Hadith and Sunnah has no basis.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Women will be doing that routine that is why they are not allowed?

Mosques are usually intended for quiet worship, not bawdy entertainment. I think that is why there is separation of sexes. Islamic religion hasn't moved with the times like the Church in England. The day may not be far off when we see the congregation led by a lesbian vicar clad in biker leathers and furry handcuffs in the UK church. We have more open thought here.

 

[CricketCartoons]

This post is quite something. Women are quite capable of feeling sexually attracted to men. That's kind of how genes are passed on.

And yeah the classic 'men will be just men'. Let me guess, you think women getting raped is their own fault too?

It is proven that women are choosy while men are less discriminating when it comes to opposite gender ( not talking about marriage and commitment). That is how mother nature created us.

PS: that is not a justification for any crime against women, so keep your strawmen to yourself.

 

[shah_1]

Yes she made an error there but mistakes happen sometimes. I am sure you dont mean she is incapable of leading prayers. She is capable but not allowed.

Here is the whole video. Konsi Nawaz mei ek Sajda hotah hai

So fake, these hindus pretending to be Muslims lol

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Have you ever seen a Namaz with just one Sajda. ? Watch it &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834; <a href="https://t.co/c858ECXwbf">pic.twitter.com/c858ECXwbf</a></p>— Karwan (@IamKarwan) <a href="https://twitter.com/IamKarwan/status/958295196176875525?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[DeadBall]

Here is the whole video. Konsi Nawaz mei ek Sajda hotah hai

So fake, these hindus pretending to be Muslims lol


<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Have you ever seen a Namaz with just one Sajda. ? Watch it &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834; <a href="https://t.co/c858ECXwbf">pic.twitter.com/c858ECXwbf</a></p>— Karwan (@IamKarwan) <a href="https://twitter.com/IamKarwan/status/958295196176875525?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Seeing the time she took for the rukoo' and the first sajda, I think the second one would be coming in a while and since she didn't finish the prayer we can't say for sure if she hasn't done the second sajda or not.

 

[www787]

Seeing the time she took for the rukoo' and the first sajda, I think the second one would be coming in a while and since she didn't finish the prayer we can't say for sure if she hasn't done the second sajda or not.

/
are you muslim? if you are, have you learnt how to pray?

 

[DeadBall]

/
are you muslim? if you are, have you learnt how to pray?

I was a Muslim and have led many prayers and even taraweehs and namaz e janaazas. She hasn't even raised her finger for tashahhud so a second sajda could still come. So please take your condescending questions somewhere else.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Here is the whole video. Konsi Nawaz mei ek Sajda hotah hai

So fake, these hindus pretending to be Muslims lol

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Have you ever seen a Namaz with just one Sajda. ? Watch it &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834; <a href="https://t.co/c858ECXwbf">pic.twitter.com/c858ECXwbf</a></p>— Karwan (@IamKarwan) <a href="https://twitter.com/IamKarwan/status/958295196176875525?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Actually they have been around for a while and have been criticised by other Muslims for this.

 

[www787]

I was a Muslim and have led many prayers and even taraweehs and namaz e janaazas. She hasn't even raised her finger for tashahhud so a second sajda could still come. So please take your condescending questions somewhere else.

It was not a condescending question, i am sorry that you feel that way, but it was a relevant question in this context to understand if you understand how the prayers are perform.

I suggest you should listen to it with your headphones and then you'll understand why it looks like low budget cheap bollywood movie to instigate something out of nothing.

 

[shah_1]

Actually they have been around for a while and have been criticised by other Muslims for this.

I shouldn't have word used Hindu but they are not praying correctly. Maybe following different form of Islam we don't know about.

 

[Mr.Q]

Tbh, this Chekanoor moulvi group is despised by the rest of the sunnis here. For them instead of 5 namaz, there are only 3 namaz a day. There are many such basic differences which we feel unacceptable.

This female imam thing i guess was an attempt of attention seeking because many of us already does that in our homes and the offices. Still she didn't deserve to get these death threats or whatever abuse that is coming on her way.

I don't want get into the bid'a side of this practice. But I have heard about this Moulvi from Kerala. And I've only heard good things about him. He believed that Islam does have a place in the modern world and that Muslims can coexist with the rest of the world without any issues whatsoever. He also believed in empowering women. He was allegedly kidnapped one night and was never seen again. Very sad end.
You can't have a regressive mentality and then accuse the rest of the world for being Islamophobic. Tolerance is the word. Let the lady practice Islam the way she wants. Who are we to question her? And why should we care?
Because of some intolerant people, the tolerant Muslims are suffering.

 

[www787]

I don't want get into the bid'a side of this practice. But I have heard about this Moulvi from Kerala. And I've only heard good things about him. He believed that Islam does have a place in the modern world and that Muslims can coexist with the rest of the world without any issues whatsoever. He also believed in empowering women. He was allegedly kidnapped one night and was never seen again. Very sad end.
You can't have a regressive mentality and then accuse the rest of the world for being Islamophobic. Tolerance is the word. Let the lady practice Islam the way she wants. Who are we to question her? And why should we care?
Because of some intolerant people, the tolerant Muslims are suffering.

Islam has never stopped women empowerment, rather it encourages it. People should read Islam not muslim, particularly South Asian muslims.

Praying 5 times a day is one of the pillars of Islam, 5 times correctly, not the way it was prayed in the video.

 

[Mr.Q]

Islam has never stopped women empowerment, rather it encourages it. People should read Islam not muslim, particularly South Asian muslims.

Praying 5 times a day is one of the pillars of Islam, 5 times correctly, not the way it was prayed in the video.

People who support women empowerment are often kicked out. Don't try to act like you don't see what's going on around . But still let me ask.
a) What does women empowerment mean to you?
b) What is it about the video that offends you? And why should you care?

 

[www787]

People who support women empowerment are often kicked out. Don't try to act like you don't see what's going on around . But still let me ask.
a) What does women empowerment mean to you?
b) What is it about the video that offends you? And why should you care?

When did i say it offended me?

I corrected you that Islam has never stopped women empowerment, rather it encourage it, and many example of that exist.

again her leading the salah did not offended me, rather corrected, her and her followers can do whatever they wish to, it has nothing to do with me.

 

[DeadBall]

It was not a condescending question, i am sorry that you feel that way, but it was a relevant question in this context to understand if you understand how the prayers are perform.

I suggest you should listen to it with your headphones and then you'll understand why it looks like low budget cheap bollywood movie to instigate something out of nothing.

It was condescending as you asked if I was a Muslim or that if I even had learned to pray. The instigating thing might be true but I don't care about that and was just pointing out that a second Sajdah was still possible.

 

[www787]

It was condescending as you asked if I was a Muslim or that if I even had learned to pray. The instigating thing might be true but I don't care about that and was just pointing out that a second Sajdah was still possible.

again, i suggest you to watch the video with headphones.

I've never met you, on this forum we have people from different beliefs. So, No! it was not condescending.

 

[DeadBall]

again, i suggest you to watch the video with headphones.

I've never met you, on this forum we have people from different beliefs. So, No! it was not condescending.

Ok I just did, She starts to recite something in the last couple of seconds. Is that what you were pointing to?

 

[DeadBall]

Also I don't know if they are instigating on purpose or not but desi Muslims have an inferiority complex and want to show everyone else how much more pious they are than everybody else even when they don't dont understand the basic tenants of the religion.

Due to that the probability of bida3 is really high in them and I have personally seen many instances of that in my practicing days, following are some examples

I have personally seen the religious police or the هيئة الأمر بالمعروف والنهي عن المنكر kick out people from the Masjid al 7aram and Nabaawi because they were kneeling and prostrating to a "pir" IN FRONT of the Kabah and the Prophets grave. I mean I can understand it if you are in India and Pakistan and think of them as an intermediary BUT right in front of the Hajar e Aswad and the Prophets grave. I mean come on.

I have personally seen many people stopped at airports and borders only to recover 20-30 kilos of stones from (before) Safa and Marwa or ghar e hira etc just because they wanted to go show everyone else their piousness back home or sell them for religious remedies. They even had to shut down many places and even cut down the tree where the Prophet used to stay for shade because people were more prone to worshipping that.

I have seen many people ask the Desi Mullahs in the Haram questions like "Was the Prophet a man?" only to get a reply from the so called scholars that "no, he was made of light". I shut up a lot of them before and I was only 13 at the time.

So yeah, as long as there is religion, there will be factions of the plain illiterate or merely over zealous who would create new things (kul bida3tan dhalalah, wa kullu dhalalatin fil naar) just to show how much closer to the Prophet and God they are or how their interpretation of the religion is just plain better.

 

[Mr.Q]

When did i say it offended me?

I corrected you that Islam has never stopped women empowerment, rather it encourage it, and many example of that exist.

again her leading the salah did not offended me, rather corrected, her and her followers can do whatever they wish to, it has nothing to do with me.

No, I wasn't saying Islam doesn't encourage it. I was just talking about the current scenario where people interpret it in strange ways. The situation in certain parts of India, including the state in which the quoted member resides in, is quite bad. Based on my conversations with people across the border, I can say that the situation in the cities of Pakistan is way better (or less extreme) than these places.

Anyways, if everybody is as tolerant as you and me, half of the world's problems would vanish in thin air .

 

[Justcrazy]

Is there evidence in the Koran or not- yes or no only please.

What do you think Quran is ?

 

[humzy]

It is rare that females get physically attracted by males who are not their husbands. While the same is not true for males. That is why it is women who must cover up and protect their modesty. Men will be just men.

Then you don't know women very well my friend.

Simply being more choosy doesn't mean that a woman won't be sexually attracted to a physically impressive male.

 

[kaayal]

I don't want get into the bid'a side of this practice. But I have heard about this Moulvi from Kerala. And I've only heard good things about him. He believed that Islam does have a place in the modern world and that Muslims can coexist with the rest of the world without any issues whatsoever. He also believed in empowering women. He was allegedly kidnapped one night and was never seen again. Very sad end.
You can't have a regressive mentality and then accuse the rest of the world for being Islamophobic. Tolerance is the word. Let the lady practice Islam the way she wants. Who are we to question her? And why should we care?
Because of some intolerant people, the tolerant Muslims are suffering.

I know very well about this moulvi as this happened near my native village. During 2010 when his murder verdict was out, it was all around the news and magazines. What happened to him was very sad, he had the right to live and practice his "form of Islam" but my objection is with his practices which doesn't go in accordance with the basic's of Islam which we believe. Ofcourse he/his followers can ignore me/my likes but i have my right to express my opinion like you do. The concerned authorities have not given 2 hoots about this controversy. If you are considering cyber bullying as a death threat then talk bad about Mamooty and Mohanlal in Kerala. That's enough for getting any death threats from here.

About women empowering, Putting woman infront of men doesn't empower her by any means. Educate her, give job and make her independent. Prophet Muhammad's 1st wife Khadija RA was a succesful merchant in Arabia .Her business, which revolved around trading goods from Mecca to Syria and Yemen, was larger than all of the Quraysh trades combined. Defying the gender norms she proposed and married the prophet who was much younger than her. Then there is Umm Ammara, a female warrior who gaurded Prophet during the Uhud war. There are enough examples in history like this. You don't need this moulvi to teach us how strong all these Muslim women were, we already know this.

Finally about this teacher, she definitely can continue to pray like this and i guess she will also. She has the freedom for it according to our constitution. Thankfully, our current law and order are not that bad to kill her like that moulvi. Allah will decide her fate on the day of judgement day, I am a mere mortal who is just expressing my opinion on this topic on a random forum.

Again Islam does have a place in modern world and we do co-exist with the rest of the world. Otherwise all these 1.6 billions will be terrorists and nuking this world out. And i completely agree with your last sentence, because of some intolerant people the tolerant muslims are suffering.

 

[Mr.Q]

I know very well about this moulvi as this happened near my native village. During 2010 when his murder verdict was out, it was all around the news and magazines. What happened to him was very sad, he had the right to live and practice his "form of Islam" but my objection is with his practices which doesn't go in accordance with the basic's of Islam which we believe. Ofcourse he/his followers can ignore me/my likes but i have my right to express my opinion like you do. The concerned authorities have not given 2 hoots about this controversy. If you are considering cyber bullying as a death threat then talk bad about Mamooty and Mohanlal in Kerala. That's enough for getting any death threats from here.

About women empowering, Putting woman infront of men doesn't empower her by any means. Educate her, give job and make her independent. Prophet Muhammad's 1st wife Khadija RA was a succesful merchant in Arabia .Her business, which revolved around trading goods from Mecca to Syria and Yemen, was larger than all of the Quraysh trades combined. Defying the gender norms she proposed and married the prophet who was much younger than her. Then there is Umm Ammara, a female warrior who gaurded Prophet during the Uhud war. There are enough examples in history like this. You don't need this moulvi to teach us how strong all these Muslim women were, we already know this.

Finally about this teacher, she definitely can continue to pray like this and i guess she will also. She has the freedom for it according to our constitution. Thankfully, our current law and order are not that bad to kill her like that moulvi. Allah will decide her fate on the day of judgement day, I am a mere mortal who is just expressing my opinion on this topic on a random forum.

Again Islam does have a place in modern world and we do co-exist with the rest of the world. Otherwise all these 1.6 billions will be terrorists and nuking this world out. And i completely agree with your last sentence, because of some intolerant people the tolerant muslims are suffering.

As far as I know, he had no objections with the core practices of Islam. His focus was on reforms. You can't live in the 18th century. The basic principles and ideas should of course stay but a regressive mentality will not help. The values and culture of Islam are more important than the practices. The practices may fade away with time, but the values won't. Never compromise on the values to defend a practice. Sadly, this is what most people do.

For me Islam will reach its greatest height when the whole world respects it and don't fear it. A very large percentage of people on the planet live in fear of Mulsims because of the fundamentalists and extremists. The fact that the majority aren't barbarians is nothing to brag about.

I agree with your point on women empowerment. Making every woman independent should be the idea. That's what gender equality basically means. But a very large percentage of them still are not independent which is very sad. They're allowed to study but not allowed to get a job. I strongly oppose the feminazi ideas of some 'modern' women though.

I don't debate on religion. So I'm not going to talk about the bid'a angle of what the lady did.

Friends from Pakistan might be wondering what I'm talking about. I'll explain. The situation in certain parts of India is very bad. Most of the Pakistani friends I have are very religious but very tolerant too. The situation in kaayal's state is ridiculous. In their hurry to defeat the BJP, many Muslims have now joined left parties. The parties that tried to inject atheism into children's minds by introducing the chapter 'Jeevan without religion' in primary school textbooks. They will corrupt our ideas of religion and culture. I can go on and on about the dangers of leftist ideas. It's sad that these people fell for their vote bank politics. The only party in that state that genuinely cares for Muslim welfare is the Indian Union Muslim League. But they're leaving that party behind to focus on the attack on BJP. When your rivals become your primary focus, you are only making them stronger. I'm not against the current Government at the centre by the way. They're doing a great job.