Five greatest all-rounders of all time!

[tyron_woodley]

Botham and Dev are neck and neck against Aus. I am quite surprised Botham could not out do Dev against his own main rivals, considering all the tales I hear about Botham did this, Botham did that to the aussies.

oh ok. well then I would lean towards baji as well. Besides kapil played more games right. I am pretty sure he did.

 

[Mueez]

In my opinion:

1. Imran Khan

2. Sir Gary Sobers

3. Ian Botham


This would be my top three of greatest all-rounders of all time.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Dev shouldn't make this list, in a 2nd tier with Faulkner, Stokes (at the moment, could move up) etc

I don't consider Hadlee an allrounder, but in a class with Warne, Marshall, Wasim etc

Proctor very close to 5. If he had played a full test career could be near the top of this list

1. Sobers:
No argument, considered the greatest by all experts
2. Imran:
ATG bowler and good batter. Closest to Sobers, but his bowling slightly worse than Sobers' batting. Had a godly peak
3. Kallis:
Similar stats to Sobers, but lacking the x-factor. Very reliable player with batting stats superior to Sachin and bowling stats similar to Zaheer Khan
4. Miller:
Very balanced all rounder. Slightly worse bowler than Imran due to his low WPM caused by injuries. No excuses though. Better batsman that Imran, whose average slightly flatters him
5. Botham:
Peak up there with anyone, but played on for too long. If he retired around 85' could be considered up there with Sobers. No one was as good with the bat and the ball at the same time

A very balanced selection and accurate asessment whatever my differences.Good work.Applaud your rating of Sobers.

Still I ask Why Botham at 5 when at peak from 1977-82 he even surpassed Gary Sobers as match-winner at his best with both bat and ball if you remember 1980 Jubilee test in Mumbai or 198 Ashes.Botham could ressurect a team from the grave to reach the pinnacle of glory more than anyone.In addition he was a great slip fielder.True he lost form and consistency later but still was at his best in the 1986-87 Ashes down under and in the 1984 home Ashes and took 8-103 and scored 81 at Lords v West Indies,arguably the best team ever.Scoring 14 centuries and taking 27 5 wicket hauls speaks for iteslf.No all-rounder has scored a century and taken 5 wickets in test on 5 ocassions as Botham.


Imran was the best all-rounder from 1981-87 but still was basically a fast bowling all-rounder and could not turn games as much as Botham with both ball and bat.No doubt a better bowler and skipper.When at his best with the bat Imran did not excel with the ball.Adding captaincy behind only Sobesr as a cricketer but as a pure allrounder not as effective with both ball and bat as Miller or Kapil Dev in peak.Overall perhaps a dead heat with Botham at 2nd place.

Kallis has staggering stats ,better than even Sobers.However he lacked the ability to give the final knockout punch and was outclassed by Sobers in terms of artistry in every department of the game.Kallisdid not posess Sobers versatility as a bowler or strokemaking ability with the bat.Nevertheless was the ultimate man ti save matches.Kallis was not as Dynamica brand as Botham,Miller or Imran who could turn he complexion of match more.For a major part of his career he was a great batsmen and not bowling allrounder.Ofcourse in certain patches he was right up there like in 1997-98,taking 5 wickets and scoring a century twice.

Miller was right up there but played in a completely different era.Thus not as tested as Sobers,Botham,Imran or Kallis.With both ball and bat the virtual equal of Botham.Miller could win or turn games more than Kallis.

Kapil Dev may have even been 2nd to Sobers had he been an Englishman or an Australian.No all-rounder performed better against the best team of all time,West Indies.Kapil has a bigger run and wicket aggregate than nay fast bowling all-rounder and the best record in ODI's.Kapil was more explosive than Imran with the bat and at his best closer to Botham.Above all took so many scalps on flat pancakes.Remember he has captured 7 or more wickets 4 times ,including a 9 wicket haul.

Significant that Geoff Armstrong and Cristopher Martin Jenkins ranked Sobers,Imran,Hadlee,Botham,Kapil and Miller ahead of Kallis as cricketers overall.I would only rank Sobers,Imran and Botham ahead of Kallis as a cricketer.Kallis lacked the x factor of them.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

1. Sobers

One of the best batsmen of all time. He was also a versatile bowler, who could bowl pace and different types of spin. An excellent and fearless fielder. Greatest all-rounder of all time.

2. Imran

Lethal strike bowler, dependable batsman with the ability to switch from accumulating to smashing. A superb leader, who changed the psyche of Pakistan cricket.

3. Miller

Similar to Imran, was arguably a more destructive batsman. A whisker below though, due to Imran's proven inspirational leadership over a long period of time.

4. Botham

A match-winner with bat, ball and in the field. With Beefy in your team, you could always feel your team was in with a chance to win from almost any situation.

5. Kallis

A batting technique that could frustrate the best bowlers in the world. He often gave you the impression that he could hit any ball to the boundary if he chose to. More than useful pace bowler and reliable hands in the field.

A great analysis and I respect your logic and criteria.Appreciate your analysis of al players and particularly giving Sobers his due credit.

Could not Botham dead heat with Imran?A great analysis and I respect your logic and criteria.Remember Botham at his best even surpassed Sobesr as a match-winner and Imran was not at his best with both bat and ball.Kallis was great but lacked the x factor.Morally Kapil Dev was right up there if you consider he had to toil on dead Indian wickets.Kapil could turn more games than Kallis.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

It is worth mentioning that many cricketing stars chose Ian Botham in their all-time cricket xi or nominated him as a 2nd choice to Sobers.They include Richard Hadlee,Mike Procter,Dean Jones,,Shane Warne,Bob Taylor,Jeff Thomson and Graham Gooch.,Saed Anwar,Abdul Qadir ,Dilip Vengsarkar ,Shaun Pollock,Alan Donald ,Derek Underwood and Barry Richards.Not for nothing would such stars have chosen Ina in their all-time team.In Richard Sydenham's 100 cricketers selecting their world XI 18 selected Botham,with Vengraskar,Mushtaq Ahmed and Anwar choosing both Imran and Botham.I feeel their criteria was that Botham could turn a game more with both bat and ball at the same time .

21 chose Imran Khan which must also be noted.These included Holding,Hanif,Benaud,Kirmani,Kapil dev,Marshall .Still most who selected Imran were Indians and Pakistanis.More players from outside sub-continent chose Botham.Many more Australians selected Ian.

Amazingly Kallis got only 4 votes but that. was because of the era the selectors of the teams played.

Deserving the king Sobers got 73 votes.In Gary's view it was Botham who was the most genuine all-rounder of his era with both ball and bat.Nevertheless he had heaps of praise for Imran.

Alan Davidson felt it was fast bowling all-rounders who were the ultimate match-winners in a team and thus placed Keith Miller at the top.That criteria suits Imran perfectly.However still to substitute Sobers a Botham would be more appropriate.

 

[Robert]

Botham and Dev are neck and neck against Aus. I am quite surprised Botham could not out do Dev against his own main rivals, considering all the tales I hear about Botham did this, Botham did that to the aussies.

He was a total bogeyman for the Aussies because of the two rapid centuries and 39 wickets in the 1981 Ashes.

The other notable thing about Botham is that he took 120 test catches - more than other three eighties aces combined, despite playing one third of their total tests. This surety at second slip was a big help to his side. If he wasn't hitting one of his fourteen test hundreds or taking one of his 27 x 5fers he was leaping about taking Stokes-level catches.

 

[Romali_rotti]

It is worth mentioning that many cricketing stars chose Ian Botham in their all-time cricket xi or nominated him as a 2nd choice to Sobers.They include Richard Hadlee,Mike Procter,Dean Jones,,Shane Warne,Bob Taylor,Jeff Thomson and Graham Gooch.,Saed Anwar,Abdul Qadir ,Dilip Vengsarkar ,Shaun Pollock,Alan Donald ,Derek Underwood and Barry Richards.Not for nothing would such stars have chosen Ina in their all-time team.In Richard Sydenham's 100 cricketers selecting their world XI 18 selected Botham,with Vengraskar,Mushtaq Ahmed and Anwar choosing both Imran and Botham.I feeel their criteria was that Botham could turn a game more with both bat and ball at the same time .

21 chose Imran Khan which must also be noted.These included Holding,Hanif,Benaud,Kirmani,Kapil dev,Marshall .Still most who selected Imran were Indians and Pakistanis.More players from outside sub-continent chose Botham.Many more Australians selected Ian.

Amazingly Kallis got only 4 votes but that. was because of the era the selectors of the teams played.

Deserving the king Sobers got 73 votes.In Gary's view it was Botham who was the most genuine all-rounder of his era with both ball and bat.Nevertheless he had heaps of praise for Imran.

Alan Davidson felt it was fast bowling all-rounders who were the ultimate match-winners in a team and thus placed Keith Miller at the top.That criteria suits Imran perfectly.However still to substitute Sobers a Botham would be more appropriate.

Botham is great, he should walk into any all time side, provided that side does not have to play that all time great WI team..

 

[Harsh Thakor]

He was a total bogeyman for the Aussies because of the two rapid centuries and 39 wickets in the 1981 Ashes.

The other notable thing about Botham is that he took 120 test catches - more than other three eighties aces combined, despite playing one third of their total tests. This surety at second slip was a big help to his side. If he wasn't hitting one of his fourteen test hundreds or taking one of his 27 x 5fers he was leaping about taking Stokes-level catches.

Do you not feel Botham at Peak was almost the equal of Sobers and at his best more of a match-winner?He played more diverse postilion than Miller and turned games more than Kallis.Took five wickets 27 times and scored 14 centuries which overshadows everyone else and also achived milestone of 3000 runs nad 200 wickets in fastest time.Would not Botham over al even dead -heat Imran as an all-rounder and edhe Kallis because of having more match-winning flair.To me as an allrounder Kapil Dev is up there as he performed best against West Indies,the best side of all time.Geof Armtsrong and Cristopher Martin Jenkins place him even ahead of Kallis.Overall why not Botham 2=with Imran,Miller at 4 and Kapil Dev with Kallis?

 

[Robert]

It is worth mentioning that many cricketing stars chose Ian Botham in their all-time cricket xi or nominated him as a 2nd choice to Sobers.They include Richard Hadlee,Mike Procter,Dean Jones,,Shane Warne,Bob Taylor,Jeff Thomson and Graham Gooch.,Saed Anwar,Abdul Qadir ,Dilip Vengsarkar ,Shaun Pollock,Alan Donald ,Derek Underwood and Barry Richards.Not for nothing would such stars have chosen Ina in their all-time team.In Richard Sydenham's 100 cricketers selecting their world XI 18 selected Botham,with Vengraskar,Mushtaq Ahmed and Anwar choosing both Imran and Botham.I feeel their criteria was that Botham could turn a game more with both bat and ball at the same time .

21 chose Imran Khan which must also be noted.These included Holding,Hanif,Benaud,Kirmani,Kapil dev,Marshall .Still most who selected Imran were Indians and Pakistanis.More players from outside sub-continent chose Botham.Many more Australians selected Ian.

Amazingly Kallis got only 4 votes but that. was because of the era the selectors of the teams played.

Deserving the king Sobers got 73 votes.In Gary's view it was Botham who was the most genuine all-rounder of his era with both ball and bat.Nevertheless he had heaps of praise for Imran.

Alan Davidson felt it was fast bowling all-rounders who were the ultimate match-winners in a team and thus placed Keith Miller at the top.That criteria suits Imran perfectly.However still to substitute Sobers a Botham would be more appropriate.

Very surprised that Sir Richard rated Both so high - their rivalry was deadly. There was just one time I saw Hadlee appear intimidated - taking the second new ball, which Botham was hitting to all parts, with every man on the boundary.

Unsurprising that Davo voted for team-mate Miller.

 

[Robert]

Do you not feel Botham at Peak was almost the equal of Sobers and at his best more of a match-winner?He played more diverse postilion than Miller and turned games more than Kallis.Took five wickets 27 times and scored 14 centuries which overshadows everyone else and also achived milestone of 3000 runs nad 200 wickets in fastest time.Would not Botham over al even dead -heat Imran as an all-rounder and edhe Kallis because of having more match-winning flair.To me as an allrounder Kapil Dev is up there as he performed best against West Indies,the best side of all time.Geof Armtsrong and Cristopher Martin Jenkins place him even ahead of Kallis.Overall why not Botham 2=with Imran,Miller at 4 and Kapil Dev with Kallis?

I'd say Botham 1978-82 was able to command a place both as batter and bowler - as good as Gatting and Lamb with the bat, and as good as Willis with the ball.

Imran did too from 1983-88. Prior to 1983 he was a fast bowler who could bat some, and after 1988 he was a reliable batsman and change bowler like Stokes.

Sobers got into the side as a bowler, remember. He rapidly ascended the batting line when they realsied what he could do. His bowling figures don't look so great on paper, but he was capable of opening the bowling with Wes Hall and then spinning a side out in the second innings. He was the epitome of the Calypso Cricketer, at least as a bowler - finding it so easy that he didn't work at his many skills. Bob Woolmer found his left arm swingers very dangerous indeed, got totally stuck and couldn't score a run.

Miller was another who was test class with bat and ball for his whole career. He would played a lot more tests if he had been a pure batter. I find the legend that he didn't know that he could bowl fast until 1948 and then suddenly emerged as a world-beater quite typical of the man.

 

[Robert]

Botham is great, he should walk into any all time side, provided that side does not have to play that all time great WI team..

I would still pick him even then as long as Mike Brearley was team coach. Brears got the best out of Botham.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I would still pick him even then as long as Mike Brearley was team coach. Brears got the best out of Botham.

If you had to pick between Dev and Botham on an world alltime side that would take on that all time great WI team of the 80s and you can only choose 1. Who would you pick ? be honest...

 

[Robert]

If you had to pick between Dev and Botham on an world alltime side that would take on that all time great WI team of the 80s and you can only choose 1. Who would you pick ? be honest...

Imran

 

[Romali_rotti]

Imran

You cheeky bugger

 

[Robert]

You cheeky bugger

He didn’t score many runs against WI either but it would be nice to fight real pace with real pace.

 

[Romali_rotti]

He didn’t score many runs against WI either but it would be nice to fight real pace with real pace.

Onto a different matter, I couldn't help but always wonder that DEV should not have been a bowler. His natural talent was always his batting ability, he had every shot in the book and a strike rate which was so ridiculous, it would be considered good even in today's standard. Dev was wayyy ahead of his time when he played, he should have never taken up bowling and been a pure batsmen, he would have ended up with 10K plus runs and would today be considered one of the greatest bats of all time, as Gavaskar once said.

 

[MenInG]

CHANDIGARH: Ian Botham, whose legend will be eternally tied to the celebrated 'all-rounder quartet' of the 1980s along with Kapil Dev, Richard Hadlee and Imran Khan, now feels it was a privilege to play in an era of such larger-than-life, pace-bowling heroes. He also revealed that there was intense competition between them.

"It was a privilege to play in that era. We spoilt the fans for around 10-15 years. I don't think world cricket has seen so many allrounders rubbing shoulders at the same time. In every tour I used to see what Richard has done, what Kaps (Kapil) has done, what Immi (Imran) has done. There was a great rivalry," Botham said during an online chat session with the Playwrite Foundation.

"I haven't met Imran for a long time. He was probably the most charismatic of the four. He is now the Prime Minister of Pakistan and I must say he is a very brave man. I wish he stays safe," he said.

Here are some other highlights from the chat...

On the decline of all-rounders:

All-rounders can't be manufactured, they don't grow on trees. The workload is double and it obviously takes a toll on your body. Just imagine Kapil… the amount of bowling he did on those Indian pitches, which had very little to offer, that too in the scorching heat of Chennai and Delhi. I can't see anyone in the present generation being able to do that.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-ian-botham/articleshow/76056729.cms?from=mdr

 

[Ab Fan]

When people say Kapil was more talented and underachieved, they refer his batting. He could have scored more at a better average given the batting talent he had. But his workload was far too high for a bowler that he couldn't even took his batting seriously.

 

[therealAB]

For me the top five is quite clear.

Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Miller
Botham

Davidson/Hadlee etc not strong enoug batsmen to be considered all-rounders. Hammond not a good enough bowler

 

[Bhaijaan]

1. Kapil Dev
2. Ian Botham
3. Imran Khan


Kapil being by far and easily the greatest pure AR to ever play cricket. His talent, achievements, impact, rising to the occasion against the best if the best dwarf the rest.

Garry Sobers, Kallis etc good ARs but they were not pure ARs. One of them is a legendary batsman the other is also a local legend as a batsman.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

For me the top five is quite clear.

Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Miller
Botham

Davidson/Hadlee etc not strong enoug batsmen to be considered all-rounders. Hammond not a good enough bowler

In order of merit?

 

[TeymurBlake]

I don't really care about the ranking, in my opinion they were all great. Sir Garry Sobers, Imran Khan, Kapil Dev, Sir Ian Botham, Richard Hadlee. Just brilliant in terms of skills, abilities and leadership as a player or captain for some. Then you have some of the 2000's & 2010's decade of Flintoff, Kallis, Stokes, Watto, who despite some weaknesses in there game still are regarded as great AR. Obviously I know for many posters here don't regard Watto and Flintoff as great and didn't achieve there potential whereas Kallis was more of batsman than his bowling. Stokes has a way to go to be regarded as the best with the 5 I mentioned earlier. With that being said he's going that way and will probably end up in the same class with them.

 

[therealAB]

In order of merit?

Same order, although Miller and Kallis are very close. Proctor could likely be considered better than Botham, but didn't play many tests at all and Bothamhad the greatest peak ever for an AR

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Same order, although Miller and Kallis are very close. Proctor could likely be considered better than Botham, but didn't play many tests at all and Bothamhad the greatest peak ever for an AR

Good assessment.Why Miller below Imran?

 

[therealAB]

Good assessment.Why Miller below Imran?

Insane peak, longer career. If Miller wasn't injured in the war he could be the #1 though. His back made him bowl short spells. The war also changed his outlook on the game, threw bis wicket away because he didn't care. Could have averaged 50 and 20 if he had cared and his body was up to it

 

[Robert]

Good assessment.Why Miller below Imran?

Miller didn't really like bowling - though I don't know why because he was excellent at it. Hutton said he was harder to face than Lindwall because Miller was so unpredictable - he didn't even run in off the same number of steps every ball.

Whereas the Lillee-inpsired Imran had an appetite for hard work with the ball, bowling fast for really long spells.

So despite Miller being a wonderful attacking batsman to Imran's grinder, I would put Imran 1% ahead overall.

 

[Robert]

Onto a different matter, I couldn't help but always wonder that DEV should not have been a bowler. His natural talent was always his batting ability, he had every shot in the book and a strike rate which was so ridiculous, it would be considered good even in today's standard. Dev was wayyy ahead of his time when he played, he should have never taken up bowling and been a pure batsmen, he would have ended up with 10K plus runs and would today be considered one of the greatest bats of all time, as Gavaskar once said.

Hard to argue with 430 test wickets (at one point the record) though.

I agree that he was a freakish talent with the bat. Had he throttled back a bit and scored at 60 / 100 like Botham and Richards, instead of 80 /100 (which would be exceptional even now) - I believe he would have fifteen test hundreds instead of just eight.

 

[corneredtiger85292]

Imran
Sobers
Miller
Kallis
Rice

Batting, Bowling, Leadership and mental toughness. Imran Khan well and truly had it all !

 

[Superflex]

I'm surprised nobody even fleetingly mentioned Vinoo Mankad - apologies if I missed the reference. His figures pale in comparison to our modern day greats but Vinoo set the stats benchmarks by which we measure an all rounder's contribution.

 

[Ab Fan]

My top 5 will be

Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Miller
Botham

I don't think Sobers weaker suit was as strong but he could bring variety with his bowling options and is up there as one of the greatest batsmen of all-time so clearly no 1 for me.

Botham not being able to up his game vs Windies goes against him but a true match winner indeed.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I would rate Imran Khan the captain higher than the allrounder: Kapil Dev
India’s 1983 World Cup winning captain feels Tendulkar was often not ‘ruthless’ enough

Published: July 08, 2020 14:33
Gautam Bhattacharyya, Senior Associate Editor


Dubai: The debate over ‘greatest’ tag among the four master allrounders of cricket who plied their trade around the same time - Kapil Dev, Imran Khan, Ian Botham and Richard Hadlee had been an eternal favourite for the game’s lovers. There could never be a definitive solution, but Kapil, the man who took the sport into every Indian household with the 1983 World Cup win believes each of their quartet were blessed with unique qualities.

Keeping Botham a notch ahead of the others because of his allround abilities, Kapil said: ‘‘He (Botham) could win a match on his own either through his batting or bowling. In fact, I developed this competitive spirit in me to do one better than him during our England tour of 1982 when I was fortunate enough to end up as the Man of the Series.’’

Speaking in a no-holds-barred chat with former Indian opener Woorkeri Raman in the latter’s youtube channel ‘Inside Out,’ where he dealt with a wide range of subjects from the Class of ‘83 to the batsmen he would pay to watch, Kapil rated Sir Richard the best among them in terms of bowling. ‘‘He was a like a computer,’’ the legend said,

Getting candid about Imran Khan, former Pakistan captain and now Prime Minister of his country, Kapil felt his initial impressions about Imran’s bowling was not really extraordinary. ‘‘He, however, was a very hardworking bowler who worked on his batting also to serve the team. I would rate him higher as a captain for the way he handled some of the notorious players in his team. I was possibly fitter and more athletic than all three,’’ said Kapil.

The search for a successor to Kapil Dev in Indian cricket - much like for Botham in England (till a certain Ben Stokes came along) - had been an elusive one even more than 25 years after his retirement. Agreeing to Raman’s suggestion that he did not often take his batting seriously, Kapil said: ‘‘Yes, I agree that I could have possibly scored another 2000 runs or may be more – but those days there was nobody to really guide me.’’

Who are the cricketers whom Kapil would pay to watch? It was quite an eclectic mix from Kapil paaji: ‘‘Well, I would like to pay to watch Sachin (Tendulkar), especially his early phase, Virender Sehwag, M.S.Dhoni in the last 10 overs of a ODI and Harbhajan Singh in full flight. If I have to sit down and quietly enjoy a Test match – it would be both Sunil (Gavaskar) and Vishy (G.R.Vishwanath). I would also go for Mohinder Amarnath’s two series against Pakistan West Indies, where he was simply superb.’’

While cricket fans have marvelled at the resilience of Tendulkar and his hunger for runs, Kapil had an interesting observation about him that he often did not find the Little Master ‘ruthless’ enough. ‘‘Sachin was born in an era where he knew how to score a 100, but he was not ruthless enough to push for the next 100 quickly. To my mind, he should have made at least five three hundreds and 10 double centuries. I consider Sehwag an amazing batsman in this area, who believed in increasing his tempo after getting a century,’’ he noted.

Finally, who according to him, had been the best Indian captain? ‘‘You see, I believe a captain is as good as his team. If you had given Sir Clive Lloyd the Zimbabwe team or Bangladesh to Steve Waugh, could they have achieved what they did? This is where I would rate Sunil very highly because he did very well despite not having the resources. I would also commend Arjuna Ranatunga for the way he made world champions of out of a small nation - and possibly Sourav Ganguly.

‘‘If I were to make an all-time great Indian XI, then I would have to pick 80% of the players who played under Ganguly. Hence, leading them was not easy. However, I feel If Sunil had a team like that of today, he could have done wonders,’’ he concluded.

Kapil Dev reserved high words of praise for Ranveer Singh, the Bollywood actor who has played the Indian captain’s role in ‘83,’ the Hindi film which attempted to fictionalise the Indian team’s memorable World Cup triumph in England in 1983. Lauding Ranveer’s dedication and professionalism in preparing himself for the role, Kapil said: ‘‘He practised batting for sometime upto eight hours in Delhi heat, may be three hours for bowling and fielding. I was worried that he should not hurt himself and he has done a very good job.’’

The film, which was originally scheduled for a release in April, is still waiting to hit the theatres due to the pandemic.

Looking back at what would rate as arguably India’s greatest cricketing achievement ever, Kapil said: ‘‘Yes, it does sink in now that winning the trophy was a critical point in the history of Indian cricket. The impact of winning it helped cricket spread in smaller parts of the country - as till then it was played in pockets like Mumbai, Madras (yes, that’s how he prefers it) or a little bit in New Delhi.’’

https://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/...gher-than-the-allrounder-kapil-dev-1.72476828