For the love of God, please don’t play Mohammad Rizwan in the New Zealand T20I series

[naseem]

I m not against rizwan but still t20 cricket is not his suit...we can still try him in middle order in odis

 

[Mamoon]

Okay name an XI for each format that can beat top sides 1/10 times and beat the weak times more often than not.

Isn’t that what we do these days?

 

[Square Drive]

Isn’t that what we do these days?

Okay name your XI for what we do these days.

 

[Mamoon]

Okay name your XI for what we do these days.

ODIs:

Imam
Rizwan +
Babar *
Haris
Hafeez
Haider
Imad
Hasan
Gohar
Shaheen
Hasnain

T20Is:

Babar *
Rizwan +
Haider
Hafeez
Talat
Iftikhar
Imad
Hasan
Gohar
Shaheen
Hasnain

Don’t like Hasnain but there are no alternatives at the moment. Don’t want tape ball bowlers like Rauf, Dilbar etc. Amir has retired.

Not a fan of Iftikhar either but would take him over Khushdil and Asif.

Two SLA is one dimensional, but would take one dimension over scam artist Shadab. At least Gohar is a proper bowler.

Would keep Haider in the setup because he has a lot of raw potential, but at the moment he is technically not ready to bat up the order in ODIs.

I have a bit of a soft corner for Talat. I think he is underrated for our standards and should get a chance in T20Is at least, and if he does well he can replace Hafeez in ODIs in a year or two.

These are still very ordinary teams but perhaps it can stop losing to Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka C at home.

 

[Square Drive]

ODIs:

Imam
Rizwan +
Babar *
Haris
Hafeez
Haider
Imad
Hasan
Gohar
Shaheen
Hasnain

T20Is:

Babar *
Rizwan +
Haider
Hafeez
Talat
Iftikhar
Imad
Hasan
Gohar
Shaheen
Hasnain

Don’t like Hasnain but there are no alternatives at the moment. Don’t want tape ball bowlers like Rauf, Dilbar etc. Amir has retired.

Not a fan of Iftikhar either but would take him over Khushdil and Asif.

Two SLA is one dimensional, but would take one dimension over scam artist Shadab. At least Gohar is a proper bowler.

Would keep Haider in the setup because he has a lot of raw potential, but at the moment he is technically not ready to bat up the order in ODIs.

I have a bit of a soft corner for Talat. I think he is underrated for our standards and should get a chance in T20Is at least, and if he does well he can replace Hafeez in ODIs in a year or two.

These are still very ordinary teams but perhaps it can stop losing to Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka C at home.

Shukriya.

Those are not bad teams (I already expected you to not include Shadab so accounted for that).

You think Hafeez can keep his form up until the 2023 WC?

Interesting to see you rate Talat.

You think Naseem fits into our LOIs side anytime soon, despite being overrated in your opinion?

 

[Mamoon]

Shukriya.

Those are not bad teams (I already expected you to not include Shadab so accounted for that).

You think Hafeez can keep his form up until the 2023 WC?

Interesting to see you rate Talat.

You think Naseem fits into our LOIs side anytime soon, despite being overrated in your opinion?

Naseem has no skill and no brain, just a big mouth. Won’t pick him in any format. He needs to get humble and toil in domestic cricket before talking about seeing fear in batsmen’s eyes.

The only fear I am seeing is in the eyes of his fans when they look at his numbers in Australia and England.

Prof can certainly keep this up for another couple of years but we should keep our expectations low. He is so composed and confident these days.

 

[zain7077]

ODIs:

Imam
Rizwan +
Babar *
Haris
Hafeez
Haider
Imad
Hasan
Gohar
Shaheen
Hasnain

T20Is:

Babar *
Rizwan +
Haider
Hafeez
Talat
Iftikhar
Imad
Hasan
Gohar
Shaheen
Hasnain

Don’t like Hasnain but there are no alternatives at the moment. Don’t want tape ball bowlers like Rauf, Dilbar etc. Amir has retired.

Not a fan of Iftikhar either but would take him over Khushdil and Asif.

Two SLA is one dimensional, but would take one dimension over scam artist Shadab. At least Gohar is a proper bowler.

Would keep Haider in the setup because he has a lot of raw potential, but at the moment he is technically not ready to bat up the order in ODIs.

I have a bit of a soft corner for Talat. I think he is underrated for our standards and should get a chance in T20Is at least, and if he does well he can replace Hafeez in ODIs in a year or two.

These are still very ordinary teams but perhaps it can stop losing to Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka C at home.

Do you rate Saud Shakeel? If not, I know you don’t rate many upcoming players but who are those you think have potential and have not represented Pakistan yet?

 

[shamaan]

Rizwan played his role quite well and followed the instructions given when babar is back he should not be opening he might need to bat at 9.

 

[Yk313]

Rizwan played his role quite well and followed the instructions given when babar is back he should not be opening he might need to bat at 9.

Why not? The blueprint is pretty much there. If Pakistan want to move up, they need to consistently have their Top 3 or Top 4 bat for around 35 overs 8 times out 10 in ODIs. Rizwan and Imam opening is fine, strike rotation is key instead of going for elaborate boundaries.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Why not? The blueprint is pretty much there. If Pakistan want to move up, they need to consistently have their Top 3 or Top 4 bat for around 35 overs 8 times out 10 in ODIs. Rizwan and Imam opening is fine, strike rotation is key instead of going for elaborate boundaries.

Very well put. Imam, Rizwan, Babar, is a very solid top 3.

 

[shamaan]

Why not? The blueprint is pretty much there. If Pakistan want to move up, they need to consistently have their Top 3 or Top 4 bat for around 35 overs 8 times out 10 in ODIs. Rizwan and Imam opening is fine, strike rotation is key instead of going for elaborate boundaries.

This thread is based upon t20s not odis and i am on about t20s strictly

 

[Major]

This thread was made 1 year ago, alot of posters in this thread bashed Rizwan.

After one year exactly, Rizwan will finish this year with 2000 T20 runs. The highest ever scored in a single year.



Misbah really made this guy into a player


Read the first few posts, and posters are saying we deserve to be whitewash if Rizwan plays t20 cricket

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Rizwan can open. That would be the best spot to put him in. Though this outrage over T20s funny. Doesn't matter.

I too was fine with it.

 

[Major]

He is among the top 3 keepers in the world and you are calling him garbage. Along with Babar and Shaheen, he is the only quality all-format cricketer in the country. All-format because keeping skills do not change from format to format.

You are acting as if Pakistan is an elite cricket nation that is overflowing with quality cricketers.

I don’t know how hard it is to be a better WK batsman than him in T20 cricket, but apparently it is seriously hard for Pakistan to produce one when you look at the alternatives.

Because Sarfraz was never a world class WK and it was obvious by 2017 ODI series in Australia that Rizwan is a superior WK.

Today, in 2020-21, there are no alternatives to Rizwan because no one else is remotely close to his WK skills and they are not big improvements with the bat either.

People are always bashing Rizwan because he cannot bat like Buttler or Bairstow but they fail to realize that he is by far the best keeper in the country and there is no explosive T20 batsman in the country who can step in his shoes.

Azam Khan has batting potential but he is still very raw and needs FC experience. Moreover, there are a lot of question marks over his keeping.

There is no way he can be an agile keeper with that physique. He is going to cost a lot of byes and you would always need a first slip for him because there is no way he is going to be quick enough to go for diving catches especially against pacers.

Azam Khan needs to give up his keeping aspirations if he cannot get any leaner than he is now, and that might not be possible anyway because he is big boned.

He needs to focus on becoming a specialist batsman because there is good potential there.

Probably the only poster who believed in Rizwan.

When I see RIzwan in Multan, I laugh at Karachi for losing out to giving away the best pakistani keeper ever produced. They could had dominated the PSL by having him and Babar open.

But guess what, Mickey Arthur made Imad Waseem captain

 

[Snowflake]

This thread was made 1 year ago, alot of posters in this thread bashed Rizwan.

After one year exactly, Rizwan will finish this year with 2000 T20 runs. The highest ever scored in a single year.



Misbah really made this guy into a player


Read the first few posts, and posters are saying we deserve to be whitewash if Rizwan plays t20 cricket

Major, this is what I meant when I said that your bias in favor of Misbah is really hurting your credibility as a poster.

In the "how did Rizwan improve..." thread, it is totally fair to give credit to Misbah because he deserves it.

Now, saying the same thing in this thread does not make sense at all. OP was 100% correct in making this thread. In fact, the result of the series all but validated this! Can you put up the scorecards from the NZ T20s? Rizwan lost us 2 games single handedly and well in only one of the games. Even better, watch the highlights and see how he struggled.

So, again, my advice is not to jump at every opportunity to tout Misbah's horn. There are, albeit very rare, times when Misbah truly deserves credit...but this wasn't one.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

This thread did not age well...

 

[Snowflake]

This thread did not age well...

It did. It was specific to the NZ series and Rizwan lost us 2 games in thst series.

However, Rizwan has improved tremendously since then...but that doesn't invalidate this thread.

 

[Markhor]

This thread was made 1 year ago, alot of posters in this thread bashed Rizwan.

After one year exactly, Rizwan will finish this year with 2000 T20 runs. The highest ever scored in a single year.



Misbah really made this guy into a player


Read the first few posts, and posters are saying we deserve to be whitewash if Rizwan plays t20 cricket

Rizwan's T20I numbers were poor before this golden run. IIRC his SR was around run-a-ball, so the skepticism was not unreasonable. His domestic numbers were excellent, but he wasn't replicating it in internationals between 2015-2019 albeit we didn't see him have a consistent run due to backing of Sarfraz.

However as I mentioned elsewhere, Rizwan is one of the few Pakistani cricketers to self-analyse his weak points, seek advice, and put in the hard work to silence the critics. Many have made excuses or blamed others for their failures.

Misbah does deserve some credit to be fair for giving him the right role and backing him. It was one of the few right calls in a coaching tenure of woeful selection and tactical decisions.

 

[haiderva]

We are hearing news that not only is Rizwan playing in the T20 series, but he is also opening and leading the side.

Misbah and co, what are you thinking? Rizwan is a fine test keeper/batsmen, but he is NOT the man for the job for the shorter formats.

You can't make a rickshaw race with a Ferrari. Just like you can't make Rizwan play T20s (especially against a tough team like NZ).

Has there ever been a more inept selector/head coach in Pakistan cricket's history? Wait.. don't answer that.

OH how the times have changed! I remember feeling so frustrated at the time I wrote that. I am man enough to admit that Rizwan has completely proven me wrong and turned me (a doubter) into a believer. Much respect for Rizwan and what he has accomplished for Pakistan this year.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It did. It was specific to the NZ series and Rizwan lost us 2 games in thst series.

However, Rizwan has improved tremendously since then...but that doesn't invalidate this thread.

It does invalidate it. Because Rizwan came into the side in that series with an average of 15 and a SR of 97. The only game we won, we won because of him. Not only did he exceed expectations but also proved everyone who thought he wasn't a T20 batsman wrong. Since than he has become arguably the best T20 batsman in the world. This thread looks like a cruel joke.

 

[daytrader]

Zeeshan Ashraf at 6-7 can give a quick fire 30, Rizwan can’t. How can Misbah not see it? Does he see something that 99% of the fans don’t?

Apparently yes

 

[Snowflake]

It does invalidate it. Because Rizwan came into the side in that series with an average of 15 and a SR of 97. The only game we won, we won because of him. Not only did he exceed expectations but also proved everyone who thought he wasn't a T20 batsman wrong. Since than he has become arguably the best T20 batsman in the world. This thread looks like a cruel joke.

It does not invalidate it. Rizwan failed in 2 out of the 3 games and was a big factor in us losing the series - just rewatch the games or look at the scorecard. Exactly what OP had feared. Thread was completely valid at the time and the results proved it.

 

[Abdurmirr]

Lol I remember this series and the hate Rizwan was getting.

Poor guy was getting the blame for both losses even though it was Haider and Abdullah who couldn’t lay bat on ball.

It’s funny tho, the only reason Rizwan was opening was due to the absence of Babar and Fakhar. That’s the quality of a good player, taking his chances when it matters

 

[shaz619]

Rizwan's T20I numbers were poor before this golden run. IIRC his SR was around run-a-ball, so the skepticism was not unreasonable. His domestic numbers were excellent, but he wasn't replicating it in internationals between 2015-2019 albeit we didn't see him have a consistent run due to backing of Sarfraz.

However as I mentioned elsewhere, Rizwan is one of the few Pakistani cricketers to self-analyse his weak points, seek advice, and put in the hard work to silence the critics. Many have made excuses or blamed others for their failures.

Misbah does deserve some credit to be fair for giving him the right role and backing him. It was one of the few right calls in a coaching tenure of woeful selection and tactical decisions.

In other words, “I was one of Riswan’s biggest critics, perhaps it was a bit premature on my part. Please pass me the humble pie.”

 

[gazza619]

He played well in the National T20 Cup and deserves a chance at the top of the order, especially now that Babar is injured.

Besides, as long as he is keeping Sarfraz out, I'm completely fine with his selection.

You sir were probably the first person on this forum who backed this move. Well done mate!

 

[Major]

Misbah had the last laugh looks like it.

Like always proved everyone wrong

 

[silentkiller187]

haha this thread makes for interesting reading, and epitomizes this forum quite well. Kudos to [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] and even [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] who gets bashed time and again on this thread for this views, but spot on here backing rizzy

 

[ARK Rafay]

My god. This is one of the most incredible threads on PakPassion forum.

We are witnessing history here. Just 1 year from the 1st post and Rizwan has broken record for most runs in a calendar year.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Misbah had the last laugh looks like it.

Like always proved everyone wrong

Only haters ever doubt Misbah.

He is a proper man among an army of PCB's tantrum throwing man-children.

 

[silentkiller187]

im convinced rizzy read the 5 or so pages of hate and made it his personal mission to prove the haters wrong, 6 century partnerships with babar, the most ever by any opening pair in t20 debunking the fact that he is not a solid opener along with babar, most 6s in a calendar year by a pakistani again debunking the myth he aint a power hitter, most runs in a calendar year again debunking the myth he cant construct and play proper innings.

The worst thing is there still people questioning him after this magnificent year, has this thread not taught you anything

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

In 2021 Rizwan has scored 1326 runs at an average of 73.66 with SR of 134.89. (only 26 innings)

Lol That's more than many so called legends ever did in their decade long careers
[MENTION=53377]jeetu[/MENTION] bro post your beautiful T20I stat tables for Rizwan's marvelous year to put it into prospective.

Ghareeb ka bacha hai na (as he is a poor man's son) so there will be 0 articles for him. Had it been an Indian or English batter all so called sports journos would be going crazy with article after article.

 

[jeetu]

In 2021 Rizwan has scored 1326 runs at an average of 73.66 with SR of 134.89. (only 26 innings)

Lol That's more than many so called legends ever did in their decade long careers
[MENTION=53377]jeetu[/MENTION] bro post your beautiful T20I stat tables for Rizwan's marvelous year to put it into prospective.

Ghareeb ka bacha hai na (as he is a poor man's son) so there will be 0 articles for him. Had it been an Indian or English batter all so called sports journos would be going crazy with article after article.

Rizwan in 2021
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td] Rizwan [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Overall [/td][td]55 [/td][td]1639 [/td][td]51.21 [/td][td]128.95 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in 2021 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]1326 [/td][td]73.66 [/td][td]134.89 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2021 breakdown [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Afghanistan [/td][td]1 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Australia [/td][td]1 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]128.84 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Bangladesh [/td][td]3 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]90.9 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v England [/td][td]3 [/td][td]176 [/td][td]88 [/td][td]138.58 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v India [/td][td]1 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]- [/td][td]143.63 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Namibia [/td][td]1 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]- [/td][td]158 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v New Zealand [/td][td]1 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]97.05 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Scotland [/td][td]1 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]78.94 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v South Africa [/td][td]7 [/td][td]344 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]146.38 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v West Indies [/td][td]7 [/td][td]249 [/td][td]62.25 [/td][td]152.76 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Zimbabwe [/td][td]3 [/td][td]186 [/td][td]186 [/td][td]133.81 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Most T20 runs in calendar year
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]Year [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Rizwan (PAK) [/td][td]29 [/td][td]1326 [/td][td]73.66 [/td][td]134.89 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam (PAK) [/td][td]29 [/td][td]939 [/td][td]37.56 [/td][td]127.58 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]PR Stirling (IRE) [/td][td]20 [/td][td]748 [/td][td]41.55 [/td][td]140.6 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]KJ O'Brien (IRE) [/td][td]23 [/td][td]729 [/td][td]31.69 [/td][td]155.43 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MP O'Dowd (NED) [/td][td]24 [/td][td]702 [/td][td]29.25 [/td][td]120.82 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Dhawan (INDIA) [/td][td]18 [/td][td]689 [/td][td]40.52 [/td][td]147.22 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Guptill (NZ) [/td][td]18 [/td][td]678 [/td][td]37.66 [/td][td]145.49 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Kohli (INDIA) [/td][td]15 [/td][td]641 [/td][td]106.83 [/td][td]140.26 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]2016 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BN Cooper (NED) [/td][td]21 [/td][td]637 [/td][td]37.47 [/td][td]127.91 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MR Marsh (AUS) [/td][td]21 [/td][td]627 [/td][td]36.88 [/td][td]129.81 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Balbirnie (IRE) [/td][td]21 [/td][td]601 [/td][td]33.38 [/td][td]143.77 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Sharma (INDIA) [/td][td]19 [/td][td]590 [/td][td]36.87 [/td][td]147.5 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JC Buttler (ENG) [/td][td]14 [/td][td]589 [/td][td]65.44 [/td][td]143.3 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Fakhar Zaman (PAK) [/td][td]17 [/td][td]576 [/td][td]33.88 [/td][td]148.83 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Naim (BAN) [/td][td]26 [/td][td]575 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]100.34 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]TP Ura (PNG) [/td][td]17 [/td][td]572 [/td][td]47.66 [/td][td]147.04 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AK Markram (SA) [/td][td]18 [/td][td]570 [/td][td]43.84 [/td][td]148.82 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Babar Azam (PAK) [/td][td]12 [/td][td]563 [/td][td]62.55 [/td][td]126.51 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]P Khadka (NEPAL) [/td][td]18 [/td][td]541 [/td][td]33.81 [/td][td]145.82 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Finch (AUS) [/td][td]17 [/td][td]531 [/td][td]40.84 [/td][td]176.41 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HG Munsey (SCOT) [/td][td]15 [/td][td]526 [/td][td]37.57 [/td][td]166.45 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]2019 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Q de Kock (SA) [/td][td]14 [/td][td]524 [/td][td]43.66 [/td][td]131.32 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]2021 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mohammad Shahzad (AFG) [/td][td]15 [/td][td]520 [/td][td]37.14 [/td][td]152.94 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2016 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DJM Short (AUS) [/td][td]18 [/td][td]515 [/td][td]32.18 [/td][td]121.17 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GJ Maxwell (AUS) [/td][td]19 [/td][td]506 [/td][td]36.14 [/td][td]143.75 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]C Munro (NZ) [/td][td]12 [/td][td]500 [/td][td]45.45 [/td][td]178.57 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]2018 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It does not invalidate it. Rizwan failed in 2 out of the 3 games and was a big factor in us losing the series - just rewatch the games or look at the scorecard. Exactly what OP had feared. Thread was completely valid at the time and the results proved it.

Well you are utterly deluded if you think that a player who has just come into the side is going to hit the ground running in his first or second game. The fact that Rizwan did it in his third game says quite alot about him and very much invalidates this equally deluded thread...that was ready to make a final judgement on Rizwan before he had even gotten a proper chance to prove himself.

I don't need to rewatch the games because I saw them live. There were far greater reasons why we lost that series.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Would be nothing short of a disaster.

And what a disaster it has been!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You sir were probably the first person on this forum who backed this move. Well done mate!

Just glad to be on the right side of history with this one.

Went back to look at some of the earlier posts and its amazing how many posters I had to argue with to defend Rizwan simply being given a chance to prove himself.

The hate this guy has gotten in the past is simply astounding. Hopefully now people can simmer down.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Misbah had the last laugh looks like it.

Like always proved everyone wrong

It was Abdul Razzaq’s idea of playing Mohammad Rizwan as an opener when playing for KP, he should be given more credit than Misbah, imo.

 

[Major]

It was Abdul Razzaq’s idea of playing Mohammad Rizwan as an opener when playing for KP, he should be given more credit than Misbah, imo.

When rizwan himself said it was misbah, and never ever mentioned razzaqs name than who are you to claim otherwise?

 

[Snowflake]

Well you are utterly deluded if you think that a player who has just come into the side is going to hit the ground running in his first or second game. The fact that Rizwan did it in his third game says quite alot about him and very much invalidates this equally deluded thread...that was ready to make a final judgement on Rizwan before he had even gotten a proper chance to prove himself.

I don't need to rewatch the games because I saw them live. There were far greater reasons why we lost that series.

You need to calm down because I think you haven't read the title of the thread. It clearly specifies NEW ZEALAND! No one was making the "final judgement" or calling for Rizwan's head. Rizwan failed in 2 out of the 3 games IN NEW ZEALAND and that was massive factor in us losing the series. I cannot believe I am repeating this again; but you clearly are dodging the point so I have no choice.

Again, the concern was specific to the NZ series and the result proved that concern to be legit. What is so hard to comprehend?

 

[Snowflake]

And what a disaster it has been!

Oh God!

Yes, failing in 2 out of the 3 games is hardly a success. If it is for you, you need to raise your standards.

 

[Shazzam]

This thread could easily bite Rizwan fans in the back as well. While Rizwan had a great 2021 he could easily have a terrible 2022. He already has plenty of flaws as a batsmen only time will tell when teams will plan against him better.

 

[Snowflake]

This thread could easily bite Rizwan fans in the back as well. While Rizwan had a great 2021 he could easily have a terrible 2022. He already has plenty of flaws as a batsmen only time will tell when teams will plan against him better.

The thing I do not understand is that... if we go by the logic of people who are criticizing this thread, or saying that it did not age well, then almost all criticism threads are going to come back and "bite the OP in the a$$" or "will not age well"... Rizwan's criticism at that point was 100% justified as he was struggling with SR issues and power-hitting. There is a whole thread about how he has managed to improve so drastically over the last year or so.

So, why have a go at such threads when, at the time, they raised legit concerns backed by not only facts/stats but also validated by the results.

After that if the subjected player transforms himself into Bradman, then kudos to that player. But you can't trash OP for that.

 

[Major]

This thread could easily bite Rizwan fans in the back as well. While Rizwan had a great 2021 he could easily have a terrible 2022. He already has plenty of flaws as a batsmen only time will tell when teams will plan against him better.

If you want rizwan to do bad....

Rizwan had good stats coming into the national t20 team. His haters were mostly sarfraz fans. They hated the fact this guy had taken over. Rizwan was a system of merit and the people who backed him knew his worth after watching him perform in domestic t20

 

[YousafTheBeast]

When rizwan himself said it was misbah, and never ever mentioned razzaqs name than who are you to claim otherwise?

All it takes is a simple search on Google and in a couple of mins you’ll realise that it wasn’t Misbah who should be credited for Rizwan’s success as an opener, it’s Abdul Razzaq who should be credited.

Here’s a quote from an article, a couple of months before this thread was made -

“I have been provided a plan by Abdul Razzaq, who is our head coach and also a national selector, to open the innings and I am happy that it is paying off,”

I’m not hating on Misbah, but let’s not forget about Razzaq’s role as the coach of KP.

 

[Markhor]

In other words, “I was one of Riswan’s biggest critics, perhaps it was a bit premature on my part. Please pass me the humble pie.”

Shaz unlike some on this platform, I would prefer my opinion be proved wrong 1000 times than a Pakistani player failing once just to be able to say I told you so.

If I wanted to play this game - then I could also bump threads from three years ago stating Babar Azam should be dropped from Tests right before his Centurion knock vs Dale Steyn that turned his career around and embarrass a few posters.

I could bump a thread from 2013 when Junaid Khan was touted as a future ATG. I could quote posts from 2010 saying "Umar Akmal is ten trillion times better than Virat Kohli" and "Virat Who ?" - yes those are real quotes. There's been a few opinions I've seen over 11.5 years that time has proved absurd.

But I won't dig them all out because these comments were in the context of that time, and this thread was made when Mohammad Rizwan's T20I numbers AT THE TIME was an average of 16 at SR of 96. Doubts were understandable. However Misbah made the right call and Rizwan's performances have been exceptional.

Frankly this bump is rather childish and motivated not by crediting Rizwan for his hard work, but petty point scoring by a person desperate to find a rare instance of Misbah's coaching tenure where he made a correct selection decision and properly utilised a player - which he failed to do for many others.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You need to calm down because I think you haven't read the title of the thread. It clearly specifies NEW ZEALAND! No one was making the "final judgement" or calling for Rizwan's head. Rizwan failed in 2 out of the 3 games IN NEW ZEALAND and that was massive factor in us losing the series. I cannot believe I am repeating this again; but you clearly are dodging the point so I have no choice.

Again, the concern was specific to the NZ series and the result proved that concern to be legit. What is so hard to comprehend?

You need to go back and read some of the posts on this thread. They were very much making a final judgment on his career. Alot like your post from 2 years back...

 

[Snowflake]

You need to go back and read some of the posts on this thread. They were very much making a final judgment on his career. Alot like your post from 2 years back...

Okay, I was never talking about all the posts on this thread and made it clear that I was talking about the title specifically.

Which post of mine made final judgment on his career?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Okay, I was never talking about all the posts on this thread and made it clear that I was talking about the title specifically.

Which post of mine made final judgment on his career?

The title is just as deluded. OP is praying to God for a guy to not get a chance to play for Pakistan eventhough he has rightfully earned it.

Had Rizwan not gotten a chance he would have never scored 89 in the final game to shut up his critics and become a mainstay in the T20 side.

Rather than arguing semantics and defending OP just admit you and him were wrong about Rizwan, just like pretty much everyone else on this thread.

 

[Snowflake]

The title is just as deluded. OP is praying to God for a guy to not get a chance to play for Pakistan eventhough he has rightfully earned it.

Had Rizwan not gotten a chance he would have never scored 89 in the final game to shut up his critics and become a mainstay in the T20 side.

Rather than arguing semantics and defending OP just admit you and him were wrong about Rizwan, just like pretty much everyone else on this thread.

How was it deluded when Rizwan had a poor average and SR at the time and also failed in 2 out of the 3 games?

Also, which post of mine made a final judgment on his career?

 

[DRsohail]

Misbah had the last laugh looks like it.

Like always proved everyone wrong

Yes he has the last laugh sitting at home now haha

 

[FollowThru]

When rizwan himself said it was misbah, and never ever mentioned razzaqs name than who are you to claim otherwise?

For 2-3 years between 2017-2019, his One Day stats while batting in Top Order for Pakistan-A team are like 45+/100+ (avg/SR). If anything, PCT management didn't think he was a Top order batsman.

 

[shaz619]

Shaz unlike some on this platform, I would prefer my opinion be proved wrong 1000 times than a Pakistani player failing once just to be able to say I told you so.

If I wanted to play this game - then I could also bump threads from three years ago stating Babar Azam should be dropped from Tests right before his Centurion knock vs Dale Steyn that turned his career around and embarrass a few posters.

I could bump a thread from 2013 when Junaid Khan was touted as a future ATG. I could quote posts from 2010 saying "Umar Akmal is ten trillion times better than Virat Kohli" and "Virat Who ?" - yes those are real quotes. There's been a few opinions I've seen over 11.5 years that time has proved absurd.

But I won't dig them all out because these comments were in the context of that time, and this thread was made when Mohammad Rizwan's T20I numbers AT THE TIME was an average of 16 at SR of 96. Doubts were understandable. However Misbah made the right call and Rizwan's performances have been exceptional.

Frankly this bump is rather childish and motivated not by crediting Rizwan for his hard work, but petty point scoring by a person desperate to find a rare instance of Misbah's coaching tenure where he made a correct selection decision and properly utilised a player - which he failed to do for many others.

I was pulling your leg mate I respect you don’t really point score or have petty feuds over players at the expense of Pakistan cricket, I remembered you criticising him many many years ago maybe it was related to his place in the ODI team am not sure but fair to say Ris is certainly a much better player now then he was and the character he has displayed for a Pakistani cricketer is surprising even for his supporters.

Credit to Misbah for that ‘one’ good thing he did but more credit should be given to Rizwan when players rarely respond to such support, ultimately it comes down to an individuals determination, another great example of that is Younis Khan, at the end of the day you can be given multiple advices but there is no miracle pill and you need to put in the hard yards and more importantly, figure out what works for you best.

 

[Major]

All it takes is a simple search on Google and in a couple of mins you’ll realise that it wasn’t Misbah who should be credited for Rizwan’s success as an opener, it’s Abdul Razzaq who should be credited.

Here’s a quote from an article, a couple of months before this thread was made -

“I have been provided a plan by Abdul Razzaq, who is our head coach and also a national selector, to open the innings and I am happy that it is paying off,”

I’m not hating on Misbah, but let’s not forget about Razzaq’s role as the coach of KP.

again, when Rizwan himself credditted Misbah live. You can go find the video, than who are you to take credit away.

 

[Major]

funny thing is posters who are now complaining of this bump and being shown the humble pies have still not read their posts.

Posts like we deserve to be whitewashed, how misbah is wrong and how guys like Abdullah Shafiq should be thrown in.

Suddenly now context matters for some after being embarrased. But at the time Babar wasnt there and Rizwan opened, at the time Rizwan performed and still he was bashed, even the coach was bashed.

Just admit you were wrong about the player and the coach you lot were bashing.

Many fail to see that the losses were not even cause of Rizwan but due to other players, and Rizwan had domestic performance even at the time and in that context that warranted him to open.

However, I understand when posters are exposed for their unfair hate on players they dont like being pointed out. Thus, they now have to resort to calling it the few things Misbah did.

If we are to talk about context, the criticism that the coach got was he destroyed the all time no.1 t20 team of Pakistan. When infact it was his same squad that got the team to an undefeated run uptil the semi finals.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

again, when Rizwan himself credditted Misbah live. You can go find the video, than who are you to take credit away.

Of course he’s going to credit his coach, but the fact is that Abdul Razzaq played him as an opener before Misbah so whenever you praise Misbah for Rizwan’s success, mention Razzaq as well. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

How was it deluded when Rizwan had a poor average and SR at the time and also failed in 2 out of the 3 games?

Also, which post of mine made a final judgment on his career?

It was deluded because he scored plenty of runs in the NT20 Cup as opener and hence earned an opportunity at the top of the order.

You said it was going to be a disaster.

 

[Markhor]

[

I was pulling your leg mate I respect you don’t really point score or have petty feuds over players at the expense of Pakistan cricket, I remembered you criticising him many many years ago maybe it was related to his place in the ODI team am not sure but fair to say Ris is certainly a much better player now then he was and the character he has displayed for a Pakistani cricketer is surprising even for his supporters.

Credit to Misbah for that ‘one’ good thing he did but more credit should be given to Rizwan when players rarely respond to such support, ultimately it comes down to an individuals determination, another great example of that is Younis Khan, at the end of the day you can be given multiple advices but there is no miracle pill and you need to put in the hard yards and more importantly, figure out what works for you best.

I know you were just joshing, but I feel it's important to point this issue out.

funny thing is posters who are now complaining of this bump and being shown the humble pies have still not read their posts.

Posts like we deserve to be whitewashed, how misbah is wrong and how guys like Abdullah Shafiq should be thrown in.

Suddenly now context matters for some after being embarrased. But at the time Babar wasnt there and Rizwan opened, at the time Rizwan performed and still he was bashed, even the coach was bashed.

Just admit you were wrong about the player and the coach you lot were bashing.

Many fail to see that the losses were not even cause of Rizwan but due to other players, and Rizwan had domestic performance even at the time and in that context that warranted him to open.

However, I understand when posters are exposed for their unfair hate on players they dont like being pointed out. Thus, they now have to resort to calling it the few things Misbah did.

If we are to talk about context, the criticism that the coach got was he destroyed the all time no.1 t20 team of Pakistan. When infact it was his same squad that got the team to an undefeated run uptil the semi finals.

I don't know if there's a language barrier here or deliberate misreading but I repeat for the third and final time - there were valid reasons for fans to be skeptical of Mohammad Rizwan as a T20 opener. His average/SR in T20Is read 16/96 prior to NZ. Yes he performed well in the National T20, but countless players dominate domestic and fail internationally.

I've already said I'm delighted he has proven my doubts wrong because my priority is the betterment of Pakistan cricket not winning internet arguments with strangers.

Again, I could dig up many old threads here of past opinions being proven wrong over time to "expose" people but I won't engage in such a childish exercise because those opinions were honestly formed on the facts at the time.

The problem is you judge other fans on whether they are Pro-Misbah or Anti-Misbah with no room for nuance whatsoever.

Surely if Misbah is responsible for Rizwan's white-ball transformation, the South Africa white-ball wins, Fawad's long overdue Test recall and laying the groundwork for Pakistan's T20 WC campaign, which I agree, then isn't Misbah's also responsible for:

• The appointment of Azhar Ali as Test captain
• The worst bowling performance in Australia in our history, with premature debuts of Naseem Shah and Musa Khan.
• Recalling Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad
• The Manchester Test loss from a winning position, with a huge tactical omission in failing to target Chris Woakes with short pitched balls
• And defeats to Sri Lanka B and New Zealand B in T20s and England B in ODIs+T20s ?

While one can accept Misbah made some good decisions, his overall record makes it clear why he was pushed to the exit.

 

[shah9425]

Rizwan took it personally after seeing this thread

 

[Bewal Express]

[

I know you were just joshing, but I feel it's important to point this issue out.



I don't know if there's a language barrier here or deliberate misreading but I repeat for the third and final time - there were valid reasons for fans to be skeptical of Mohammad Rizwan as a T20 opener. His average/SR in T20Is read 16/96 prior to NZ. Yes he performed well in the National T20, but countless players dominate domestic and fail internationally.

I've already said I'm delighted he has proven my doubts wrong because my priority is the betterment of Pakistan cricket not winning internet arguments with strangers.

Again, I could dig up many old threads here of past opinions being proven wrong over time to "expose" people but I won't engage in such a childish exercise because those opinions were honestly formed on the facts at the time.

The problem is you judge other fans on whether they are Pro-Misbah or Anti-Misbah with no room for nuance whatsoever.

Surely if Misbah is responsible for Rizwan's white-ball transformation, the South Africa white-ball wins, Fawad's long overdue Test recall and laying the groundwork for Pakistan's T20 WC campaign, which I agree, then isn't Misbah's also responsible for:

• The appointment of Azhar Ali as Test captain
• The worst bowling performance in Australia in our history, with premature debuts of Naseem Shah and Musa Khan.
• Recalling Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad
• The Manchester Test loss from a winning position, with a huge tactical omission in failing to target Chris Woakes with short pitched balls
• And defeats to Sri Lanka B and New Zealand B in T20s and England B in ODIs+T20s ?

While one can accept Misbah made some good decisions, his overall record makes it clear why he was pushed to the exit.

Misbah made some good decisions and some howlers. His overall selections haven't been too bad and his legacy will be OK. I think Misbah is better suited to Admin in the PCB rather than selection.

 

[Snowflake]

It was deluded because he scored plenty of runs in the NT20 Cup as opener and hence earned an opportunity at the top of the order.

You said it was going to be a disaster.

But then he went on to fail in 2 of the 3 games, proving OP's concerns legit.

How was it not a disaster? Now don't tell me you want to start a discussion on how he did not fail? because that'll be shocking and a clear case of shifting goal posts

 

[Snowflake]

It was deluded because he scored plenty of runs in the NT20 Cup as opener and hence earned an opportunity at the top of the order.

You said it was going to be a disaster.

Yes, I said it was going to be a disaster to play him in NZ. Where is the final judgment on his career?

You keep shooting yourself in the foot with silly conclusions.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

But then he went on to fail in 2 of the 3 games, proving OP's concerns legit.

How was it not a disaster? Now don't tell me you want to start a discussion on how he did not fail? because that'll be shocking and a clear case of shifting goal posts

Oh so according to you a guy who has earned a place in the side based on his performance in a tournament in which he played what 10+ matches? deserves to be dropped after two failures?

Good thing someone like you or OP isn't in-charge of our selection. Barely any player would get to the side if they were dropped after two failures.

OP was wrong and so were you. Rizwan was given a few chances and he repaid the faith in only his third game and the rest as they say is history. Hence proving that his selection as well as his elevation to the top of the order was a stroke of genius that is the primary reason why he has 2000 runs in the calendar year.

Rather than making asinine arguments that have no basis in logic, just accept you were wrong and move on. Learn from the experience of writing someone off before you have even gotten a chance to see them properly play. It'll enhance your understanding of cricket or any other sport.

 

[Snowflake]

Oh so according to you a guy who has earned a place in the side based on his performance in a tournament in which he played what 10+ matches? deserves to be dropped after two failures?

Good thing someone like you or OP isn't in-charge of our selection. Barely any player would get to the side if they were dropped after two failures.

OP was wrong and so were you. Rizwan was given a few chances and he repaid the faith in only his third game and the rest as they say is history. Hence proving that his selection as well as his elevation to the top of the order was a stroke of genius that is the primary reason why he has 2000 runs in the calendar year.

Rather than making asinine arguments that have no basis in logic, just accept you were wrong and move on. Learn from the experience of writing someone off before you have even gotten a chance to see them properly play. It'll enhance your understanding of cricket or any other sport.

Okay, so now you've resorted to making things up? Lol

Who said anything about dropping him? OP expressed concern about his selection for the NZ T20s and his concern was proven to be correct because he failed in 2 out of the 3 games.

The concern was legit because it was backed by numbers and validated by the outcome of the series; simple.
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] has done a really good job in explaining how this thread was valid. Maybe refer to that post if you are having comprehension issues

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Okay, so now you've resorted to making things up? Lol

Who said anything about dropping him? OP expressed concern about his selection for the NZ T20s and his concern was proven to be correct because he failed in 2 out of the 3 games.

The concern was legit because it was backed by numbers and validated by the outcome of the series; simple.

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] has done a really good job in explaining how this thread was valid. Maybe refer to that post if you are having comprehension issues

I guess you've completely lost your marbles. There's a difference between "concern" and "For the love of God please don't play Mohammad Rizwan in the New Zealand series".

Even your point about numbers is only half true. Because it was his "numbers" in the NT20 Cup while opening the batting that made the biggest case for his selection in the first place.

And the outcome of the series is not based on your version of the truth. One player is never responsible for a lost series. Its usually a failure in multiple departments. But I guess you've gone completely over the hill to recognize that very basic reality.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Wow. Seriously cannot believe the meteoric rise that Rizwan has had. He is an unbelievable talent. His happiness and positivity is what is keeping him going.

 

[fieldMarshal]

The sole reason for the phenomenal rise of Rizwan is due to his hard work n complete faith n trust in ALLAH n wt ALLAH wills. Asign of a very strong Imaan.
We all are Muslims n believe in ALLAH n say that we trust in ALLAH will, but unfortunately due to our weak Imaan beliefs are only their till lip service n nothing more

 

[Snowflake]

I guess you've completely lost your marbles. There's a difference between "concern" and "For the love of God please don't play Mohammad Rizwan in the New Zealand series".

Even your point about numbers is only half true. Because it was his "numbers" in the NT20 Cup while opening the batting that made the biggest case for his selection in the first place.

And the outcome of the series is not based on your version of the truth. One player is never responsible for a lost series. Its usually a failure in multiple departments. But I guess you've gone completely over the hill to recognize that very basic reality.

You're the one making things up like "you made a final judgment on his career" and I have lost my marbles? Hmm...nice try

Yes, it's still an expression of concern to say that he shouldn't be play the t20 series. So is saying "it's going to be a disaster"

National Cup numbers don't mean that he had a very poor international record at the time...which means that OP's opinion was backed by stats...unlike yours.

What is "my version"? Did he not fail in 2 out of the 3 games? When did I say that he's the only one responsible? Again, don't make things up

I might have gone over the hill, whatever that means, but you clearly haven't even started the climb given that you are not able to comprehend such a basic concept.

 

[Mamoon]

Razzaq has no say in the management of Pakistan team. He might have been the first one to promote Rizwan as an opener, but ultimately, it was Misbah who decided to open with him in international cricket.

A lot of tactics and strategies that are deployed at domestic level or not repeated at international level because you have different options at hand.

Razzaq did not have Sharjeel, Fakhar, Haider etc. at his disposal but Misbah did, and he could have continued to open with those guys and kept Rizwan in the middle-order.

The real issue here is that some people will never give credit to Misbah. If Rizwan would have been promoted as an opener under Mickey or some other foreign coach, the same people who are not refusing to credit Misbah would be doing bhangra and praising the vision and the tactical nous of the foreign coach.

Misbah made plenty of mistakes but promoting Rizwan as an opener is his legacy. Clutching at straws and forcefully crediting Razzaq will not change anything.

Rizwan’s turn around as an opener is similar to how players like Rohit, Dilshan, Watson and even Jayasuriya and Sachin back in the day turned their careers around after getting promoted.

Opening has always been the easiest batting position in Limited Overs cricket. The white ball doesn’t swing much, the fielding restrictions and the hard, new ball allows you to score plenty of boundaries early in your innings which helps you settle, and you always start at 0/0 so you don’t need to adjust to different situations.

This is why the two best batsmen of your team should always open the innings in Limited Overs. They will maximize their run scoring and it makes sense to give your two best batsman maximum deliveries.

The concept of specialist openers in ODI cricket died when the format transitioned from red ball to white ball.

Pakistan is missing a huge trick by not opening with Babar and Rizwan in ODIs. I really hope the current management can see the light because Misbah couldn’t.

I like Imam and Fakhar can be devastating on a good day, but these two are easily the best and most prolific batsmen in Pakistan. They would comfortably surpass Saeed Anwar and Aamer Sohail as an opening pair in ODIs.

One can only imagine the number of 100+ partnerships they will have over the next 3-4 years if not more.