France: Teacher beheaded, police shoot dead suspected killer

[Gilly]

The murderer does not represent Islam. I agree with you, but look around you, all athiests and Islamophobes are saying the killer does represent Islam (and are ultra disappointed the killer wasn't Pakistani). Macron has already dubbed this a terrorist attack. So no matter what condemnation, none of it would make a difference.

We can move on from the brutal murder. Happens everywhere. Lets address cause which is more relevant.

You want offence towards all religions to stop, I agree. Lets start by having a law that protects all religions equally, not just one. Let's also start by the MSM reporting facts and not sensialism with a heavy dose of bias.

Speaking of which, as you alluded to, the pen is mightier than the sword, but when the French and their allies use bombs and bullets, it kind of torpedoes the point.

If you are going to address the cause then you need to look at why a person would have such a irrational belief that killing someone over a cartoon is rational.

 

[uberkoen]

You don't have to seek asylum in the West. Which part are you having trouble understanding? There's always HK.

Shocked my foot, you support the innocent killings of Palestinians because of religion. Please try and fool someone else.

Where did I support the killing of Palestinians? You seem a bit delusional .

 

[KingKhanWC]

France is an extremist secular nation . It spreads hate so much this type of incident is no surprise . Teacher shouldn’t have been killed but no sympathy for him either

 

[uberkoen]

France is an extremist secular nation . It spreads hate so much this type of incident is no surprise . Teacher shouldn’t have been killed but no sympathy for him either

I see you've changed your stance on the issue. Can you tell me how secularism spreads hate?

 

[Technics 1210]

If you are going to address the cause then you need to look at why a person would have such a irrational belief that killing someone over a cartoon is rational.

All killings are irational, and yes if the faith is strong then something like this should ignored, but people have been murdered for far more trivial things. Non religious reasons.

The fact however remains, if one is deliberatly provoking a reaction (remember the teacher had recieved death threats so he knew what he was doing was causing problems), then deliberately pushing the boundaries in the name of freedom knowing it has and will cause offence, then you got to be naive not to expect some sort of reaction.

The teacher could've discussed the topic without having to resort to 'offensive' material, this is the measure of a great teacher. It was a debate, not an art contest.

 

[Gilly]

All killings are irational, and yes if the faith is strong then something like this should ignored, but people have been murdered for far more trivial things. Non religious reasons.

The fact however remains, if one is deliberatly provoking a reaction (remember the teacher had recieved death threats so he knew what he was doing was causing problems), then deliberately pushing the boundaries in the name of freedom knowing it has and will cause offence, then you got to be naive not to expect some sort of reaction.

The teacher could've discussed the topic without having to resort to 'offensive' material, this is the measure of a great teacher. It was a debate, not an art contest.

The teacher did absolutely nothing that warranted any type of violent action. He was respectful and informed his students and allowed them to leave if they thought they may be offended. No muslim was offended, no muslim was harassed. Trying to imply that the teacher did anything wrong gives the impression that there was just cause for the attack.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I see you've changed your stance on the issue. Can you tell me how secularism spreads hate?

I haven’t changed any views .

The dead teacher is your first clue .

Go outside 50 men’s houses & parade cartoons of their mother naked , you probably will be killed before you get to 10.

Secularism is using the freedom of speech argument to spread hate . But also has laws against freedom of speech, holocaust denial .

It’s selective secular extremist mindset , very dangerous. Seems you are in this deluded thought too .

Don’t spread hate & nobody will notice you

 

[Technics 1210]

The teacher did absolutely nothing that warranted any type of violent action. He was respectful and informed his students and allowed them to leave if they thought they may be offended. No muslim was offended, no muslim was harassed. Trying to imply that the teacher did anything wrong gives the impression that there was just cause for the attack.

The teacher was wrong in expecting his method would not provoke a reaction.

Every victim of any murder doesn't warrant that type of reaction. Let's call a spade a spade here, this is a story simply because it involves a 'muslim', attacking Western liberty and values.

Do you think the teacher was naive in beliving there'd be no reaction given Charlie Hebdo, and the current state of affairs in France via-a-vis Islam?

By the way, the teacher asked his Muslim students to leave if they found it offensive.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The teacher did absolutely nothing that warranted any type of violent action. He was respectful and informed his students and allowed them to leave if they thought they may be offended. No muslim was offended, no muslim was harassed. Trying to imply that the teacher did anything wrong gives the impression that there was just cause for the attack.

He didn’t break the law , not the same as doing nothing wrong . He was spreading hatred in a school.

If a person walks around Australia speaking the truth saying Aussies (arriving )were convicts & criminals, this a fact , yet that person would be attacked sooner or later .

 

[uberkoen]

I haven’t changed any views .

The dead teacher is your first clue .

Go outside 50 men’s houses & parade cartoons of their mother naked , you probably will be killed before you get to 10.

Secularism is using the freedom of speech argument to spread hate . But also has laws against freedom of speech, holocaust denial .

It’s selective secular extremist mindset , very dangerous. Seems you are in this deluded thought too .

Don’t spread hate & nobody will notice you

Right so showing a cartoon to educate kids about history is the same as showing a cartoon of someones mother being naked. Brilliant logic.

The dead teacher is a result of Islamic extremism not a result of secularism.

 

[uberkoen]

He didn’t break the law , not the same as doing nothing wrong . He was spreading hatred in a school.

If a person walks around Australia speaking the truth saying Aussies (arriving )were convicts & criminals, this a fact , yet that person would be attacked sooner or later .

So you're saying a person going around saying that deserves to die?

 

[MenInG]

An 11th person has been arrested in France as authorities investigate the murder of French teacher Samuel Paty.

The 47-year-old was beheaded on Friday near the school where he taught in the town of Conflans-Sainte-Honorine north-west of central Paris.

Police have named the suspect as Abdoulakh A, an 18-year-old man born in Moscow of Chechen origin.

No details have been given about the latest person detained by the French authorities.

Four close relatives of the suspect were arrested shortly after the killing. Six more were detained on Saturday, including the father of a pupil at the school and a preacher described by French media as a radical Islamist.

President Emmanuel Macron said the attack bore all the hallmarks of an "Islamist terrorist attack" and the teacher had been murdered because he "taught freedom of expression".

The murder has appalled France. Demonstrations are planned across the country on Sunday denouncing the attack, and there will be a national tribute paid to Mr Paty on Wednesday.

"A civilisation does not kill an innocent person, barbarism does," Tareq Oubrou, imam of a mosque in Bordeaux, told France Inter on Saturday.

And Laurent Nuñez, the head of France's anti-terrorism task force, told France Info radio: "A threshold has been crossed", citing the attack on "the freedom to teach" and "the barbarity of the act".

 

[Gilly]

He didn’t break the law , not the same as doing nothing wrong . He was spreading hatred in a school.

If a person walks around Australia speaking the truth saying Aussies (arriving )were convicts & criminals, this a fact , yet that person would be attacked sooner or later .

He was not spreading hate, he was having a discussion about a tragic event that happened in France.

We are taught in school that Australians came to Australia as convicts. You can access a government website to see if you are one of the lucky ones that has convict ancestry.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So you're saying a person going around saying that deserves to die?

Not at all . I just live in planet earth not some fantasy of a world I think I should be living in .

You look at someone the wrong way , it might result in a broken jaw . You openly spread hate , most might ignore it but it’s hardly a shock If sooner or later someone hurts you .

I thought this was common sense to a child , strange

 

[Technics 1210]

He didn’t break the law , not the same as doing nothing wrong . He was spreading hatred in a school.

If a person walks around Australia speaking the truth saying Aussies (arriving )were convicts & criminals, this a fact , yet that person would be attacked sooner or later .

There's a video of a guy, neoliberalist, who took a sign saying 'Black lives Matter' and stood in the middle of a town called Hicksville in USA. This town is known as the most racist in USA. He wanted to champion freedom, liberalism, by causing offence, in a right-wing town populated by whites. Guess what happened to him?

The media would blame the white townfolk of course, not the guy who was holding up the sign.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He was not spreading hate, he was having a discussion about a tragic event that happened in France.

We are taught in school that Australians came to Australia as convicts. You can access a government website to see if you are one of the lucky ones that has convict ancestry.

It’s not hate to you but it’s to millions of others . You’re entitled to your view , so give others the same right .

I never mentioned in school .

 

[uberkoen]

It’s not hate to you but it’s to millions of others . You’re entitled to your view , so give others the same right .

I never mentioned in school .

Can you tell me what was hateful about the video?

 

[Gilly]

It’s not hate to you but it’s to millions of others . You’re entitled to your view , so give others the same right .
.

So to millions of Muslims a teacher in France having a discussion about a tragic event that happened in France is considered spreading hate.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There's a video of a guy, neoliberalist, who took a sign saying 'Black lives Matter' and stood in the middle of a town called Hicksville in USA. This town is known as the most racist in USA. He wanted to champion freedom, liberalism, by causing offence, in a right-wing town populated by whites. Guess what happened to him?

The media would blame the white townfolk of course, not the guy who was holding up the sign.

Exactly .

These are all great ideas Of freedom of speech but noting more than grand delusions

People also have freedom of speech to abuse someone’s mother but will be attacked by most they try this against .

Don’t spread hate, it’s dangerous.

 

[Tubs]

I have no problem with him showing offensive caricatures personally, hope he and his family are at peace with his decision.

Again, you're blaming him for getting murdered? Why don't you just admit you're happy it happened?

 

[KingKhanWC]

So to millions of Muslims a teacher in France having a discussion about a tragic event that happened in France is considered spreading hate.

Discussion is fine . Cartoons of the Prophet with a bomb is spreading hatred .

Do what you want . I personally ignore it or challenge it with words but don’t cry if someone sends you to hospital.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Can you tell me what was hateful about the video?

Post the video .

 

[Tubs]

So many people with thinly-veiled justifications for the murder here- disgusting.

Yes, holocaust laws are silly, but it's obviously not the freedom of speech issue why you bring that up.

 

[uberkoen]

Post the video .

So you haven't seen it? I bet neither did the killer.

 

[saeedhk]

There's a video of a guy, neoliberalist, who took a sign saying 'Black lives Matter' and stood in the middle of a town called Hicksville in USA. This town is known as the most racist in USA. He wanted to champion freedom, liberalism, by causing offence, in a right-wing town populated by whites. Guess what happened to him?

The media would blame the white townfolk of course, not the guy who was holding up the sign.

I have seen that video and he wasn’t beaten up. People just swore at him as far as I remember.

 

[Technics 1210]

I have seen that video and he wasn’t beaten up. People just swore at him as far as I remember.

The point is the guy holding the sign up in the name of freedom, in a town where he knows full well he would get a reaction (thats why he was there), is asking for trouble, and if a riot had broken out then White Supremacist, right-wing, Trump, etc would be blamed, not the guy with the sign.

You want freedom? Be responsible.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Religion isn't immutable. You can't help being your race, ethnicity or gender (I anticipate the trans argument being used as a counter, but let's not go there). You can convert from religion as you want. It is not the same. Should we ban the criticism of political philosophies, or philosophers? Why don't we execute everyone who insults Plato, as I revere him as a god? Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

What has immutability got to do with protecting against bigotry?Just because one can change religion, religious harassment should be allowed?

Provocative cartoons of religious figures counts as criticism?

Yes, it does sound ridiculous that you consider aflatoon as your god ( it tells you are not sincere and just trolling). it means you haven't even read him.

 

[saeedhk]

The point is the guy holding the sign up in the name of freedom, in a town where he knows full well he would get a reaction (thats why he was there), is asking for trouble, and if a riot had broken out then White Supremacist, right-wing, Trump, etc would be blamed, not the guy with the sign.

You want freedom? Be responsible.

But you cannot blame the guy for being assaulted. He is exercising his right; nothing lawful about it.

 

[Tubs]

What has immutability got to do with protecting against bigotry?Just because one can change religion, religious harassment should be allowed?

Provocative cartoons of religious figures counts as criticism?

Yes, it does sound ridiculous that you consider aflatoon as your god ( it tells you are not sincere and just trolling). it means you haven't even read him.

Mocking Muhammad isn't religious harassment. If someone verbally abuses you, doesn't hire you, etc for your religion, then yes, that shouldn't be tolerated. My point is that it shouldn't be illegal to mock Muhammad.

No, it's mockery, and is allowed.

I was giving an example. But what if many, many people deified Plato? Should he be free from mockery? Of course not.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So you haven't seen it? I bet neither did the killer.

No I’ve read the details but ok post it I’ll take a look . Don’t be shy now

 

[Gilly]

But you cannot blame the guy for being assaulted. He is exercising his right; nothing lawful about it.

There would be one or two that would like to react with violence but I know there would be more that would say I disagree but I would defend your right to express your freedom of speech.

 

[Technics 1210]

But you cannot blame the guy for being assaulted. He is exercising his right; nothing lawful about it.

So the guy with the sign should not hold any responsibility at all because he was exercising his right?

Well in that case! You cannot blame the guys who are well withing their right to defend, shoot blacks in the name of defence, shoot anyone in the name of defence, using guns. Nothing unlawful about it. It's their right to defend.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So many people with thinly-veiled justifications for the murder here- disgusting.

Yes, holocaust laws are silly, but it's obviously not the freedom of speech issue why you bring that up.

Let me help .

The point is not any sort of justification but to help confused secular extremists to understand in the real world , you abuse , spread hate , attack(verbally) etc many might ignore but someone will hurt you physically sooner or later .

Ie some of the stuff you’ve wrote on this forum , you won’t say to people’s faces . So you now the reality of human nature .

Hatred breeds hatred

 

[Technics 1210]

Let me help .

The point is not any sort of justification but to help confused secular extremists to understand in the real world , you abuse , spread hate , attack(verbally) etc many might ignore but someone will hurt you physically sooner or later .

Ie some of the stuff you’ve wrote on this forum , you won’t say to people’s faces . So you now the reality of human nature .

Hatred breeds hatred

Spot on.

Some of these posters like to pretend they have a thick skin, but they get equally vexed, angry, and abusive when they are offended. Might not be religion, but the price of say Tesco value cheese.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Spot on.

Some of these posters like to pretend they have a thick skin, but they get equally vexed, angry, and abusive when they are offended. Might not be religion, but the price of say Tesco value cheese.

In general all people know but it’s a hobby to daily attack & spread hate against others . IMO this is an extremist mindset . What they are criticising is actual themselves . It’s pathetic but fascinating from a human perspective. Ironically many have parents who they believe are extremists but won’t use their freedom of speech at home . France as a nation is a perfect example, has some of the most extremist laws on the planet . Place is a real dump

 

[CricketCartoons]

Mocking Muhammad isn't religious harassment. If someone verbally abuses you, doesn't hire you, etc for your religion, then yes, that shouldn't be tolerated. My point is that it shouldn't be illegal to mock Muhammad.

No, it's mockery, and is allowed.

I was giving an example. But what if many, many people deified Plato? Should he be free from mockery? Of course not.

Again, what value to you add to society, and how you push the intellectual envelope by mocking a religious figure. There are valuable and constructive ways to criticize any religion, but this is no criticism, this is just some anarchists wanting to disturb peace and create chaos.

 

[Technics 1210]

Again, what value to you add to society, and how you push the intellectual envelope by mocking a religious figure. There are valuable and constructive ways to criticize any religion, but this is no criticism, this is just some anarchists wanting to disturb peace and create chaos.

Gold.

CC for Home Secretary!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Again, what value to you add to society, and how you push the intellectual envelope by mocking a religious figure. There are valuable and constructive ways to criticize any religion, but this is no criticism, this is just some anarchists wanting to disturb peace and create chaos.

Agree . I think such people are brainwashed in thinking it they attack religion it makes them intelligent, when they are in reality mental midgets .

Why doesn’t France bring its 10 best secular extremists to debate with 1 qualified Muslim , in open , on tv . Because they are mental midgets who prefer to draw cartoons . Education from Disney

 

[Technics 1210]

In general all people know but it’s a hobby to daily attack & spread hate against others . IMO this is an extremist mindset . What they are criticising is actual themselves . It’s pathetic but fascinating from a human perspective. Ironically many have parents who they believe are extremists but won’t use their freedom of speech at home . France as a nation is a perfect example, has some of the most extremist laws on the planet . Place is a real dump

Tubs doesn't even have the courage to tell his family he is an Athiest because it will 'hurt' and cause 'offence'. Yet here he is, championing the right to offend.

France is the 4th Reich. As I said a cesspit of Europe. The rise of the right in Europe emanates from France, into Germany, Austria, etc. Macron is a Rothschild puppet, and he isn't even calling the shots.

France had 2 referendums in the past 10 years, results ignored, top it up with immigration, poverty, failed economy - the country is heading for disaster.

This is one of the reasons I want UK to leave the EU - Mainland Europe has historically been a war mongering region, nothing but hate comes out of there, and UK always get dragged into their mess!

 

[Firebat]

French teachers vow to ‘teach difficult subjects’ after colleague’s murder

Shocked French teachers vowed to continue encouraging their pupils’ “critical spirit” by raising contested subjects after an Islamic terrorist beheaded a secondary school teacher who showed his students caricatures of the Prophet as part of a freedom of speech discussion.

Representatives of teaching unions met the education minister Jean-Michel Blanquer and the prime minister Jean Castex on Saturday, hours after the death of 47-year-old history and geography teacher Samuel Paty.

Before the meeting Jean-Remi Girard, president of the secondary school teaching union, said teachers were “devastated” but would not be cowed. “It is terrifying to see that in France in the 21st century, a teacher can be decapitated in the street for doing his job,” Girard said.

“We will continue to speak about freedom of speech. If there are difficult subjects, we will continue to teach them. We will try to encourage our students’ critical spirit and explain that everyone has the right to disagree.”

Rallies were expected in cities across France on Sunday in a show of solidarity and defiance, with Blanquer telling France 2: “It is absolutely important to show our mobilisation and our solidarity, our national cohesion.” He called on everyone to support the teachers.

One rally is set to take place at the Place de la République in Paris, a traditional site of protest where around 1.5 million people demonstrated in 2015 following a deadly attack on Charle Hebdo’s office by Islamist gunmen.

Rallies were also expected in Lyon, Toulouse, Strasbourg, Nantes, Marseille, Lille and Bordeaux.

The French president Emmanuel Macron, who described the killing as a “typical Islamist terrorist attack”, said France was engaged in an “existential” battle against terrorism.

The 18-year-old killer was born in Moscow but has Chechen roots. His family arrived in France when he was a child, investigators said. Police were questioning his parents, grandfather and 17-year-old brother and yesterday detained another five including the father of a pupil at the school and an acquaintance of his known to the intelligence services.

A tenth person was placed in custody in connection with the attack later on Saturday, French news channel BFM TV said, citing judicial sources.

Paty was taking a moral and civic instruction class on 5 October at his school at Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, north west of Paris. These classes are obligatory and cover subjects including secularity, the death penalty and abortion.

As part of a discussion on freedom of speech, Paty showed the class some of the controversial Charlie Hebdo caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad. Conscious that this might cause offence to some of his Muslim pupils, Paty suggested they could look away or leave the classroom.

Afterwards, the school received complaints about the use of the cartoon in the lesson and demands that Paty resign.

After a meeting between the school’s head, teachers, parents and education officials, the parents lodged an official legal complaint. Paty lodged a counter complaint for “defamation”.

The father of one school pupil published a video on YouTube calling the teacher a “thug” who needed to “go back to school himself” and calling on parents to join him in demanding that the teacher face disciplinary action.

The teacher had gone to the local police station, with the school head, earlier this month after a legal complaint about his lesson.

He reportedly told investigators he could not understand what had happened because the daughter of the father who had complained was not in class the day he showed the cartoon.

The teacher lived near the school and was used to walking through a wood to get home, but had recently decided to change his route to walk through a residential area because he felt threatened.

The college received several “menacing calls” in the following days. The anti-terrorism prosecutor Jean-Francois Ricard says the police are trying to establish events in the run-up to the crime and whether the killer had accomplices.

A crowd of mourners including fellow teachers, local politicians and officials and former pupils of Paty gathered outside his school on Saturday.

Even in a country that has confronted some of the worst acts of terrorism in Europe over the past eight years, Friday’s murder was shocking in its savagery, sparking an outpouring of anger, anguish and revulsion across France.

On social media the hashtag #JeSuisProf (I am a teacher) emerged and went viral, reminiscent of #JeSuisCharlie, the 2015 expression of solidarity with Charlie Hebdo after a massacre at its offices.

For France, the struggle against terrorism and the prevention of the radicalisation of home-grown jihadis has become what Macron described on Friday as an “existential battle”. Paris has been on high alert in recent weeks after the trial of 14 people suspected of being linked to the 2015 attacks opened in September.

But for the country’s intelligence agencies and police, the struggle of late has shifted from not only foiling planned large-scale terrorist actions but also identifying individuals – often young – who are not on the security services’ radar and not flagged as a threat risk.

To mark the opening of the long-awaited hearing – scheduled to last until November – Charlie Hebdo republished caricatures of the Prophet Muhammed, including those that led the Islamist gunmen Saïd and Chérif Kouachi to attack its offices, killing 12 people, and Amédy Coulibaly to shoot a police officer and kill four people at the Hyper Cacher supermarket.

The reprinting of the cartoons in turn led to an 18-year-old Pakistan-born man stabbing and seriously injuring two people outside the former offices of Charlie Hebdo in what the French authorities said was “clearly an act of terrorism” three weeks ago.

Ricard said the teacher had been “assassinated for teaching” and the attack was an assault on the principle of freedom of expression. “This is the second attack to take place during the Charlie Hebdo trial which shows the high level of terrorist threat we face,” Ricard said.

On Frida, Abdallah Zekri, president of the Observatory of Islamophobia, described Friday’s beheading as a “terrible and horrific act committed in the name of my religion using the pretext of Charlie Hebdo”.

“This was a cowardly, criminal act that everyone in France must denounce,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ts-french-teachers-defiant-after-of-colleague

 

[Technics 1210]

Agree . I think such people are brainwashed in thinking it they attack religion it makes them intelligent, when they are in reality mental midgets .

Why doesn’t France bring its 10 best secular extremists to debate with 1 qualified Muslim , in open , on tv . Because they are mental midgets who prefer to draw cartoons . Education from Disney

Bro, please do not disrespect Disney - I am offended now!

 

[saeedhk]

So the guy with the sign should not hold any responsibility at all because he was exercising his right?

Well in that case! You cannot blame the guys who are well withing their right to defend, shoot blacks in the name of defence, shoot anyone in the name of defence, using guns. Nothing unlawful about it. It's their right to defend.

What are you on about? He was doing nothing unlawful.

Your ramblings about blacks is irrelevant.

 

[cricketjoshila]

What are you on about? He was doing nothing unlawful.

Your ramblings about blacks is irrelevant.

This is the problem. You defend something like this and then cry muslimophobia.

 

[Technics 1210]

What are you on about? He was doing nothing unlawful.

Your ramblings about blacks is irrelevant.

And neither are those defending themselves using guns doing anything unlawful. Read the US constituion. Perfectly legal. Remember the 2 lawyers who pulled out guns cause BLM protesters were walking on their property? They became social media stars!

You are defending the right for poster boy to cause trouble, but you won't defend the right to defend.

I didn't just mention blacks. I mentioned guns and other people too.

This isn't a thread on Pakistan (you must be upset the killer wasn't Pakistani), so save your hail mary routine.

Anyway, you're living under China rule, what would you know about freedom and defending one's right, to defend.

 

[Itachi]

This is the problem. You defend something like this and then cry muslimophobia.

The danger I see is, people are justifying the act by attributing it as repercussions to the unfair treatment of Muslims.

Its a vicious cycle to be honest. And when you see people indirectly justifying these type of acts, that doesn't paint a good picture.

 

[Thulsa]

The danger I see is, people are justifying the act by attributing it as repercussions to the unfair treatment of Muslims.

Its a vicious cycle to be honest. And when you see people indirectly justifying these type of acts, that doesn't paint a good picture.

It says more about people’s questionable mindset more than anything. You could hurl all manner of abuse at my family, wife, children. Id be offended, I might even be angry.

But under no circumstances could I ever contemplate hurting someone - self defence is a different matter, but this was not self defence. What would be children/loved ones think - would they be proud? Not a chance.

And what do folks who tout religion as a justification think will happen in their perceived afterlife when meeting your maker. Do you really think your maker will be proud? I doubt it.

This thread is full of ‘yea, but, look, erm etc’. Which says a lot about the mindset of some here - and that’s concerning.

 

[Technics 1210]

Cause and effect.

This is all that matters, even as a scientist, if you want to try and resolve the issue.

No one has answered my question - was the teacher naive not to expect any kind of reaction? You lefty loons know the answer.

All these users posting from outside of Europe have ZERO clue of the expression laws we have here in the West (one day they might when they obtain their visa), including the condemed liberals of the West, and they are only contributing to this thread because it's an opportunity to diss Islam. Thread would've been 100 pages by now had the killer been Pakistani.

Yes the killer was crazy, yes it was wrong, but before he was shot dead, we forgot to ask him why, we forgot to ask the teacher too.

People have a problem about a teacher getting beheaded? Yeah rank indeed, awful, but doesn't hold a candle to the devastation and brutality caused by a French bomb on Syrians. The difference is, you don't get to read about the decapitated bodies caused by Western allies, doesn't fit the agenda.

 

[Itachi]

Cause and effect.

This is all that matters, even as a scientist, if you want to try and resolve the issue.

Yes the killer was crazy, yes it was wrong, but before he was shot dead, we forgot to ask him why, we forgot to ask the teacher too.

People have a problem about a teacher getting beheaded? Yeah rank indeed, awful, but doesn't hold a candle to the devastation and brutality caused by a French bomb on Syrians. The difference is, you don't get to read about the decapitated bodies caused by Western allies, doesn't fit the agenda.

This is the vicious cycle where one lead to the other and people will always give justification (?) to this crime. It's sad actually.

 

[James]

The murderer does not represent Islam. I agree with you, but look around you, all athiests and Islamophobes are saying the killer does represent Islam (and are ultra disappointed the killer wasn't Pakistani). Macron has already dubbed this a terrorist attack. So no matter what condemnation, none of it would make a difference.

We can move on from the brutal murder. Happens everywhere. Lets address cause which is more relevant.

You want offence towards all religions to stop, I agree. Lets start by having a law that protects all religions equally, not just one. Let's also start by the MSM reporting facts and not sensialism with a heavy dose of bias.

Speaking of which, as you alluded to, the pen is mightier than the sword, but when the French and their allies use bombs and bullets, it kind of torpedoes the point.

Fair comments.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Again, you're blaming him for getting murdered? Why don't you just admit you're happy it happened?

Now your frustration is showing. You can't deal with what I actually said and start making stuff up to try and win a debate, but that just makes your argument look even weaker.

 

[Technics 1210]

This is the vicious cycle where one lead to the other and people will always give justification (?) to this crime. It's sad actually.

The cycle can only be broken through geopolitics and MSM.

If MSM spent just one day, 24 hrs, reporting on the good in this world, the perception would change, because perception is reality.

Instead we have this tradegy, that is spun as a terrorist attack, and milked by every MSM in the West.

As you have said, sad.

 

[CRIC_FANtastic]

There are many vile and disgusting posts in this thread. I have no idea how someone in right mind can blame the teacher. But, I concede I have been brought up in a different environment. None the less, not trying to judge, as everyone has a right to express their opinion. No-one deserves to die for their opinion and views, no matter how much vile, disgusting, racist the opinion is.

There will always be extremists in every society, even more so in today's polarized world. some societies have more, some have less share of such nuts. But these extremists do not define the society. However, when "so called" liberals and moderates try to defend the acts of extremism in the garb of "this is real world", "you cant hurt-sentiments" etc, then there is a problem in the society. At least in my opinion.

If people don't like something, then they have all the right to complain, condemn and employ any other mean given by land of law. You don't go around beheading people, just because 'you' think someone crossed a line. Because no-one know where is this imaginary line. This will take us back to stone age.

 

[BreadPakoda]

I agree with a lot of posters here. France needs to be more respectful towards Muslims. The pseudo secularism should end.

This incident could have been avoided by implementing strict blasphemy or sharia law.

 

[Technics 1210]

There are many vile and disgusting posts in this thread. I have no idea how someone in right mind can blame the teacher. But, I concede I have been brought up in a different environment. None the less, not trying to judge, as everyone has a right to express their opinion. No-one deserves to die for their opinion and views, no matter how much vile, disgusting, racist the opinion is.

There will always be extremists in every society, even more so in today's polarized world. some societies have more, some have less share of such nuts. But these extremists do not define the society. However, when "so called" liberals and moderates try to defend the acts of extremism in the garb of "this is real world", "you cant hurt-sentiments" etc, then there is a problem in the society. At least in my opinion.

If people don't like something, then they have all the right to complain, condemn and employ any other mean given by land of law. You don't go around beheading people, just because 'you' think someone crossed a line. Because no-one know where is this imaginary line. This will take us back to stone age.

Please duly note from the above, the issue is not about the murder, but the method, beheading.

For the record, this poster doesn't realise how many times the Muslim community have complained in France. Also has a problem with the method of murder, beheading. It's not the cause, but the effect with such drivel. Another liberal wannabe.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Provocative cartoons of religious figures counts as criticism?

What is the objecttion here .. the fact that it is provocative? You are fine with cartoons otherwise of Prophet Mohammed?

 

[Nadeemp]

You are completely blind to the bigger picture. Take a step back and consider the vehicle. Freedom of expression is more than just words, it’s about fostering a mindset that embraces free thinking - the freedom to critically think, self reflect, challenge oneself etc for betterment.

This teacher seemingly wanted to stimulate a debate - one if the hallmarks of a good teacher. If this ran its course one of the outcomes could have been a class full of children, the future of French society, appalled at the depiction of a holy figure and spread that message - constructively, with empathy etc.

Instead that outcome is lost and all that is remembered is the atrocity and a continuation of negative views towards Islam.

Knowledge, understanding and empathy will always achieve more than violence. And freedom speech is part of that. That’s it’s value.

Good answer

 

[CRIC_FANtastic]

Please duly note from the above, the issue is not about the murder, but the method, beheading.

For the record, this poster doesn't realise how many times the Muslim community have complained in France. Also has a problem with the method of murder, beheading. It's not the cause, but the effect with such drivel. Another liberal wannabe.

Now don't start to get personal and name calling. What do you mean by 'another liberal wannabe'? Let us all maintain the basic decorum of civility.

Perhaps you missed to read where I said 'No-one deserves to die' (I did not say beheading). Dont trivialize an important debate.

 

[Tubs]

Many true colours showing here. Someone babbling on about 'what use does mockery do'. The debate is in no way about the utility of mockery, this is just a simple deflection. Public and historic figures can be mocked, get over it. You seem to be proving Macron right, which is a shame.

Now your frustration is showing. You can't deal with what I actually said and start making stuff up to try and win a debate, but that just makes your argument look even weaker.

I may have misunderstood here. When you said 'hope he and his family are at peace with his decision', I assumed you meant the teacher, was I incorrect?

 

[Nadeemp]

So which religion can you mock in France and which religion cant you mock in France?.

You can mock Judaism Christianity in France. Holocaust can be discussed. Not denied. However I don’t agree with that law either however nobody has been beheaded yet for denying the holocaust

 

[Nadeemp]

You know the answer; Judaism.

Judaism is offered the extra protection through anti-racist laws. While you can mock Jews, you can also be charged for anti-Semitism, unlike in the case of mocking Islam/Christianity/Hinduism etc.

No other religion is offered this protection in the West.

That’s not true

 

[Bigboii]

It says more about people’s questionable mindset more than anything. You could hurl all manner of abuse at my family, wife, children. Id be offended, I might even be angry.

But under no circumstances could I ever contemplate hurting someone - self defence is a different matter, but this was not self defence. What would be children/loved ones think - would they be proud? Not a chance.

And what do folks who tout religion as a justification think will happen in their perceived afterlife when meeting your maker. Do you really think your maker will be proud? I doubt it.

This thread is full of ‘yea, but, look, erm etc’. Which says a lot about the mindset of some here - and that’s concerning.

POTW for me

awesome and described the situation perfectly

 

[KingKhanWC]

Tubs doesn't even have the courage to tell his family he is an Athiest because it will 'hurt' and cause 'offence'. Yet here he is, championing the right to offend.

France is the 4th Reich. As I said a cesspit of Europe. The rise of the right in Europe emanates from France, into Germany, Austria, etc. Macron is a Rothschild puppet, and he isn't even calling the shots.

France had 2 referendums in the past 10 years, results ignored, top it up with immigration, poverty, failed economy - the country is heading for disaster.

This is one of the reasons I want UK to leave the EU - Mainland Europe has historically been a war mongering region, nothing but hate comes out of there, and UK always get dragged into their mess!

I agree, glad we will no longer be in union with the EU because of nations like France and Greece. We will end up paying for their inept running of the country.

France is arguably worse than Nazi Germany in terms of certain laws.

I never thought the day would come where a women is forced to remove clothes, because she is wearing too much.

Hitler wouldn't even go this far.

Bro, please do not disrespect Disney - I am offended now! ��

Sorry bro, Cbeebies.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You can mock Judaism Christianity in France. Holocaust can be discussed. Not denied. However I don’t agree with that law either however nobody has been beheaded yet for denying the holocaust

Please educate yourself.


You cant even criticise Israel political idelogly let alone Jews.

New French bill equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism

https://www.france24.com/en/2019120...m-with-anti-semitism-is-going-very-far-afield

Go do an experiement. Stand outside the French Parliament with a placard saying 'Jewish Terrorism in Israel must stop'. You will be eating porridge in jail.

 

[Nadeemp]

Please educate yourself.


You cant even criticise Israel political idelogly let alone Jews.



https://www.france24.com/en/2019120...m-with-anti-semitism-is-going-very-far-afield

Go do an experiement. Stand outside the French Parliament with a placard saying 'Jewish Terrorism in Israel must stop'. You will be eating porridge in jail.

No you won’t. That’s a lie. You can criticize Israel and Judaism. . You will not go to jail for it. You will not be beheaded. Holocaust denial is an offense and I don’t agree with it.

 

[Technics 1210]

Notice how the influx of left looney liberals has brought up the discussion of method of murder.

These pansies are more concerned with the fact the teacher was beheaded, but are not interested in the underlying provocation.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I may have misunderstood here. When you said 'hope he and his family are at peace with his decision', I assumed you meant the teacher, was I incorrect?

No that is what I meant. Salman Rushdie went into hiding after the fatwa from Iran, this teacher decided that standing up to the threat was worth taking the risk. Don't tell me after Charlie Hebdo and the death threats he received he wasn't aware of them. So yes I do want him and his family to be at peace with his decision. Would it be better if they were full of regret?

 

[Nadeemp]

All religions can be criticized. Religion sells itself as the next best thing since sliced bread. The results say otherwise. It can be criticized and ridiculed . Now the other side can criticize and ridicule that argument. Under no situation it should lead to violence or threat of violence. Judaism is mocked all the time. The libraries are full of books that criticize Judaism. Monty phython did a movie decades ago on making fun of Christianity. Now if you are offended you can write a book or make a counter film. But no violence.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No you won’t. That’s a lie. You can criticize Israel and Judaism. . You will not go to jail for it. You will not be beheaded. Holocaust denial is an offense and I don’t agree with it.

You really are so ignorant.

French police have arrested a man suspected of taunting prominent essayist Alain Finkielkraut during a “Yellow Vest” protest on Saturday, one of several high-profile anti-Semitic incidents to have shocked the nation.

https://www.france24.com/en/2019022...abuse-french-writer-finkielkraut-yellow-vests

"“public insult based on origin, ethnicity, nationality, race or religion”."

Why are Jews protected under this law but when it comes to Islam, this law doesnt exist?

This question to any poster as Nadeem seems to have no answers.

 

[Technics 1210]

You really are so ignorant.



https://www.france24.com/en/2019022...abuse-french-writer-finkielkraut-yellow-vests

"“public insult based on origin, ethnicity, nationality, race or religion”."

Why are Jews protected under this law but when it comes to Islam, this law doesnt exist?

This question to any poster as Nadeem seems to have no answers.

You've smoked the Nadeems in this world.

Lets see how this wannaebe Islamophobe can defend the smoking they recieve by Western law.

 

[Technics 1210]

Pay attention people.

These wannabee attackers of Islam have had their backside handed to them on a plate.

Not one, of these liberals questioned the Holocaust denial laws until mentioned. You know why? Cos they are unaware of them!

The resident Islanophones and liberals, are changing their tune in this thread . Do not fall for the liberal and islamophobic ignorance!

 

[Nadeemp]

Please educate yourself.


You cant even criticise Israel political idelogly let alone Jews.



https://www.france24.com/en/2019120...m-with-anti-semitism-is-going-very-far-afield

Go do an experiement. Stand outside the French Parliament with a placard saying 'Jewish Terrorism in Israel must stop'. You will be eating porridge in jail.

Do you know what a bill is??? It’s not a law yet.

 

[Nadeemp]

These new boats seem more powerful than ever.

Intersesting point raised. The same people criticise Pakistan for not allowing women to walk naked on beaches but defend France when they force women to take off clothes sat on a beach. Either it's a perverted mindset or a confused brain.

Could you point out who criticized women for walking “naked on the beach”. I think it was women marathon in shorts? And who defended that’s its ok for people to criticize women who are fully clothed on a French beach. Please point that out again please.

 

[Nadeemp]

Pay attention people.

These wannabee attackers of Islam have had their backside handed to them on a plate.

Not one, of these liberals questioned the Holocaust denial laws until mentioned. You know why? Cos they are unaware of them!

The resident Islanophones and liberals, are changing their tune in this thread . Do not fall for the liberal and islamophobic ignorance!

I think nobody agreed with the holocaust denial laws here. Please point them out

 

[Manunited18]

He didn’t break the law , not the same as doing nothing wrong . He was spreading hatred in a school.

If a person walks around Australia speaking the truth saying Aussies (arriving )were convicts & criminals, this a fact , yet that person would be attacked sooner or later .

Loooool

 

[Technics 1210]

I think nobody agreed with the holocaust denial laws here. Please point them out

I would like to point to out, until I pointed out these laws in this thread, your ilk were clueless.

Now these lot change their tune like they care, and pretend they know something, cos they got educated, no sorry, schooled.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Dude there are no laws against criticizing any religion. None.

Nadeem bhai, I asked you to explain what I quoted. So you are saying this media outlet and the police are making up this law.

Nadeem bhai ok try this one please.

"Articles 32 and 33 prohibit anyone from publicly defaming or insulting a person or group for belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or for having a handicap."

 

[Nadeemp]

Nadeem bhai, I asked you to explain what I quoted. So you are saying this media outlet and the police are making up this law.

Nadeem bhai ok try this one please.

"Articles 32 and 33 prohibit anyone from publicly defaming or insulting a person or group for belonging or not belonging, in fact or in fancy, to an ethnicity, a nation, a race, a religion, a sex, or a sexual orientation, or for having a handicap."

Can you provide link

 

[Nadeemp]

King please provide the link. Will read up later tonight as have errands to run.

 

[KingKhanWC]

King please provide the link. Will read up later tonight as have errands to run.

Article 33-3 sanctions the insult of an individual or a group of persons on the ground of their religion with a fine of up to € 22.500,- or imprisonment up to 6 months.18 Article 32-2 sanctions the defamation of an individual or a group of persons on the ground of their religion with a fine of up to € 45.000,- or imprisonment up to one year.

https://www.ivir.nl/publicaties/download/Limits_to_expression_on_religion_in_France.pdf

I would prefer you back your words with actions. Please go take a placard outside French parliament stating 'Stop Jewish Settler Terrorism'. This will give you plenty of reading time.

 

[Nadeemp]

https://www.ivir.nl/publicaties/download/Limits_to_expression_on_religion_in_France.pdf

I would prefer you back your words with actions. Please go take a placard outside French parliament stating 'Stop Jewish Settler Terrorism'. This will give you plenty of reading time.

King I will read up once home and answer.