Gilgit-Baltistan part of J&K, Pakistan in illegal occupation: Resolution in UK Parliament

[javiersuka]

A motion has been tabled in the UK parliament condemning Pakistan's "arbitrary" move to declare the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region, bordering disputed PoK, as its fifth province.

Bob Blackman, a Conservative Party MP, who regularly speaks out in support of the rights of Kashmiri Hindus in the House of Commons, tabled the Early Day Motion (EDM) titled 'Annexation of Gilgit-Baltistan as by Pakistan as its fifth frontier' on March 23.

EDMs are formal motions tabled in the House of Commons as a means of drawing attention to a particular issue or cause.


The motion said that Gilgit-Baltistan has been illegally occupied by Pakistan since 1947 and the country is attempting to annex the already disputed area.

The EDM reads: "That this House condemns the arbitrary announcement by Pakistan declaring Gilgit-Baltistan as its Fifth Frontier, implying its attempt to annex the already disputed area."


It noted that "Gilgit-Baltistan is a legal and constitutional part of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, India, which is illegally occupied by Pakistan since 1947, and where people are denied their fundamental rights including the right of freedom of expression."

It further said that the attempts to change the demography of the region in violation of State Subject Ordinance and forcibly and illegally to build the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, which further aggravates and interferes with the disputed territory."

Other British MPs are expected to sign the EDM during the course of this week as a show of support to the motion.

A spokesperson for Blackman's office indicated that a formal debate on the issue is also likely to be proposed in coming weeks.

Pakistan's minister for inter-provincial coordination Riaz Hussain Pirzada on Marach 14 told Pakistani media that a committee headed by Advisor of Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz had proposed giving the status of a province to Gilgit-Baltistan.

http://m.economictimes.com/news/pol...ion-in-uk-parliament/articleshow/57850269.cms

 

[ExpressPacer]

LOL. How pathetic have Indians become honestly. Just because they cannot justify Kashmir not being theirs, they will try and say its not Pakistan's. Pathetic. Too bad we'll take Indian occupied Kashmir too while Azaad Kashmir will always be Azaad.

Ask the people of Kashmir who they want to be with. Both sides will say Pakistan. Delusional Indians.

 

[hussain123]

Goodness!amount of naivety on the part of this UK mp.the natives of gilgit baltistan on their own liberated their territory from britishers and wilfully aligned themselves with pakistan.infact unlike the perception being created it is the leaders of gilgit who are themselves forcing the govt of pak to declare gilgit as a full fledged province.though govt of pak gauging the repercussions of such a move has rightfully kept this on hold.

 

[JaDed]

Goodness!amount of naivety on the part of this UK mp.the natives of gilgit baltistan on their own liberated their territory from britishers and wilfully aligned themselves with pakistan.infact unlike the perception being created it is the leaders of gilgit who are themselves forcing the govt of pak to declare gilgit as a full fledged province.though govt of pak gauging the repercussions of such a move has rightfully kept this on hold.

I'm not big on conspiracies but according to me this is what GOI wants as well to pressure Pak in various ways to declare the Kashmir on that side as a province of Pakistan.
Wouldn't be surprised if China is pressing Pak to do the same.

Almost seems like a reverse psychology btw the resolution(UK) didnt get a single vote IIRC

 

[Slog]

How many votes did it get?

Also British left subcontinet 70 years ago

 

[hussain123]

I'm not big on conspiracies but according to me this is what GOI wants as well to pressure Pak in various ways to declare the Kashmir on that side as a province of Pakistan.
Wouldn't be surprised if China is pressing Pak to do the same.

Almost seems like a reverse psychology btw the resolution(UK) didnt get a single vote IIRC

Right that.india is mincing some statements here and there on gilgit but i think it perfectly suits india if gilgit is declared as a full fledged province since pak in a way will lose that high moral ground to question india's designs in jandk.but i personally don't see it happening.also china of late has issued a statement that its position on the status of jandk hasn't/won't change.

 

[JaDed]

Right that.india is mincing some statements here and there on gilgit but i think it perfectly suits india if gilgit is declared as a full fledged province since pak in a way will lose that high moral ground to question india's designs in jandk.but i personally don't see it happening.also china of late has issued a statement that its position on the status of jandk hasn't/won't change.

Yes although I have started to doubt China tbf read an article somewhere Dawn or Tribune where they didn't want legal issues in future so wanted Gilgit to be made a province.

Feels like long term planning ,plant articles make them feel like India is trying to create issue and then automatically people of Pakistan start questioning and Gilgit becomes a province i could be wrong but i'm having massive trust issues with propaganda nowadays.Could be all imagination.

 

[hussain123]

Yes although I have started to doubt China tbf read an article somewhere Dawn or Tribune where they didn't want legal issues in future so wanted Gilgit to be made a province.

Feels like long term planning ,plant articles make them feel like India is trying to create issue and then automatically people of Pakistan start questioning and Gilgit becomes a province i could be wrong but i'm having massive trust issues with propaganda nowadays.Could be all imagination.

You maybe right.china is massively invested in obor and it would ideally want as less hassles as possible especially those of international nature.also if usa thinks cpec directly impacts its geopolitical designs in the region it will egg on india to puts its stance on gilgit on a more aggressive footing.but as things stand no matter how diplomatic stupidity that pak has shown at some times in normal circumstances it won't be declaring gilgit as a province but you never know.

 

[Syed1]

Lol good luck taking Azad Kashmir.

 

[hafeezrocks]

India can't handle their occupied Kashmir and want other parts too.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Indians will be disappointed when this fails in parliament. The isolation of Pakistan is going well for them.

 

[bleaf27]

Lol good luck taking Azad Kashmir.

Lol good luck convincing Pakistan occupied Kashmir as Azad Kashmir

 

[Syed1]

Lol good luck convincing Pakistan occupied Kashmir as Azad Kashmir

Hahahahhahahahahahhaha



That's hilarious. 99.9% of people living in Azad Kashmir would rather die than be a part of India.

 

[Pakpak]

Lol good luck convincing Pakistan occupied Kashmir as Azad Kashmir

Majority of the Pakistani populace in UK is from Kashmir, infact a sizable amount of Pakistanis here are from Kashmir. My wife's mother's family is from Azad Kashmir. They would never join India, not a chance. The adulation Pakistani team receives in England everytime they tour should tell you as much. At the very worst if they wanted to leave Pakistan it would be to have an independent Kashmiri nation. Ask around PP from Kashmiri posters, you'll get the same answer.

Saying that, Gilgit & Kashmir should not be annexed. It should keep its status that it has.

 

[GujjarLife]

Lol good luck convincing Pakistan occupied Kashmir as Azad Kashmir

Azad Kashmir is actually the most peaceful part of Pakistan. Compare it to AJK where there is an insurgency going on. Sad to see so many Indians actually believing the propaganda they're fed by the Indian media. They actually believe Parliament passed this resolution when its basically been put forward by a single MP. I bet a lot of similar resolutions have been forwarded by British Pakistani MPs. Wonder if they got similar attention in Indian media..

 

[Adil_94]

People in Azad Kashmir arent ethnic Kashmiris like in IOK most are Potohari/Pahari speakers who have similar culture to those in Potohar region of Pakistan Punjab. My background is from Potohar and where i live its full.of Mirpuris from AJK and their dialect is 90% same as ours and their culture food is pretty similar. They all feel Pakistani and have no desire to join India at all. AJK has hardly any Pakistani military presence and doesnt suffer from terrorism. Pak doesnt have to keep a Police State to keep order in AJK. Unlike India which has to keep IOK on an authoritatrian lock down and commits human rights violations in Kashmir.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Goodness!amount of naivety on the part of this UK mp.the natives of gilgit baltistan on their own liberated their territory from britishers and wilfully aligned themselves with pakistan.infact unlike the perception being created it is the leaders of gilgit who are themselves forcing the govt of pak to declare gilgit as a full fledged province.though govt of pak gauging the repercussions of such a move has rightfully kept this on hold.

Your history is a bit wrong. Gilgit Baltistan was part of Kashmir and on lease with the British.They hand over the possesion of the province to the Maharaja and left. When Pakistan attacked Kashmir, the gilgit scouts rebelled againist the Maharaja and joined hands with Pakistan and secured the GB areas it controlled.The ceasefire was declared and Pakistan kept occupation of the area just like it occupies other parts of Kashmir.GB is as much part of POK and the Kashmir dispute as any other part of POK.

 

[cricketjoshila]

People in Azad Kashmir arent ethnic Kashmiris like in IOK most are Potohari/Pahari speakers who have similar culture to those in Potohar region of Pakistan Punjab. My background is from Potohar and where i live its full.of Mirpuris from AJK and their dialect is 90% same as ours and their culture food is pretty similar. They all feel Pakistani and have no desire to join India at all. AJK has hardly any Pakistani military presence and doesnt suffer from terrorism. Pak doesnt have to keep a Police State to keep order in AJK. Unlike India which has to keep IOK on an authoritatrian lock down and commits human rights violations in Kashmir.

There was no army presence except on the borders before 1989."Someone" fuelled terrorism in J and K and keeps fuelling it.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Your history is a bit wrong. Gilgit Baltistan was part of Kashmir and on lease with the British.They hand over the possesion of the province to the Maharaja and left. When Pakistan attacked Kashmir, the gilgit scouts rebelled againist the Maharaja and joined hands with Pakistan and secured the GB areas it controlled.The ceasefire was declared and Pakistan kept occupation of the area just like it occupies other parts of Kashmir.GB is as much part of POK and the Kashmir dispute as any other part of POK.

The Baltis want a seperation from AJK to be a province in their own right... it's a perpetual demand of theirs and they do not see themselves as part of Kashmir. Pakistan is not forcing it on them. The last PPP govt nearly gave them that status but backed down in the end due to how it will be perceived over the entire Kashmir issue. As someone from AJK, I think the baltis should be allowed to delink from Kashmir and be given a full province status.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The Baltis want a seperation from AJK to be a province in their own right... it's a perpetual demand of theirs and they do not see themselves as part of Kashmir. Pakistan is not forcing it on them. The last PPP govt nearly gave them that status but backed down in the end due to how it will be perceived over the entire Kashmir issue. As someone from AJK, I think the baltis should be allowed to delink from Kashmir and be given a full province status.

The Balti issue can be sorted after the Kashmir issue is resolved.Without consent from both sides of Kashmir how can a region be separated from them.

 

[www787]

Your history is a bit wrong. Gilgit Baltistan was part of Kashmir and on lease with the British.They hand over the possesion of the province to the Maharaja and left. When Pakistan attacked Kashmir, the gilgit scouts rebelled againist the Maharaja and joined hands with Pakistan and secured the GB areas it controlled.The ceasefire was declared and Pakistan kept occupation of the area just like it occupies other parts of Kashmir.GB is as much part of POK and the Kashmir dispute as any other part of POK.

Maharaja is dead so is Dream of India attempt to take back something that never belonged to India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Maharaja is dead so is Dream of India attempt to take back something that never belonged to India.

India still has major part of Kashmir.The Kashmir Valley and the capital Srinagar. Pakistan has tried wars to get it.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

The Balti issue can be sorted after the Kashmir issue is resolved.Without consent from both sides of Kashmir how can a region be separated from them.

If it's decided peacefully, it will be on the part occupied by India. The valley to goto Pakistan, Jammu and Ladakh with India. It was almost done along these lines almost a decade or so ago.

There is no point in denying the baltis their right. They are not Kashmiris and should not be held to ransom over the issue..... 70 years is long enough.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If it's decided peacefully, it will be on the part occupied by India. The valley to goto Pakistan, Jammu and Ladakh with India. It was almost done along these lines almost a decade or so ago.

There is no point in denying the baltis their right. They are not Kashmiris and should not be held to ransom over the issue..... 70 years is long enough.

The question of anything going to Pakistan doesnt arise, the question is whether J and K is to be a free sovereign nation.If thats the question then there is no Indian Kashmir or Pakistani KAshmir.Its only Kashmir.Then Kashmiris can settle the issue with the Baltis.

 

[Bashira_taeli]

If you ask me Baltis have been ideal citizens of our country. Peaceful, dont commit crimes and make excellent soldiers.

If they want a separate province, the state should give them that.

 

[PakLFC]

UK should shut up about Kashmir when they are the ones who caused this mess in the first place. They should instead worry about Brexit and another possible referendum of Scottish that will break the union jack in to pieces. Ask the people of Kashmir who the oppressors are, simple as that.

 

[Madplayer]

I think it would be in the best interests of Pakistan And Kashmiris on both sides of the border that Pakistan refrains from merging Gilgit blatistan with itself. The dispute, to be considered a dispute, needs the status of entire territory to remain as it is.

If Pakistan is so eager, just go to war and take what you claim to be yours. If nawaz sharief hadn't developed that itch during kargil, the story would have been different today.

 

[LastManstanding]

I think it would be in the best interests of Pakistan And Kashmiris on both sides of the border that Pakistan refrains from merging Gilgit blatistan with itself. The dispute, to be considered a dispute, needs the status of entire territory to remain as it is.

If Pakistan is so eager, just go to war and take what you claim to be yours. If nawaz sharief hadn't developed that itch during kargil, the story would have been different today.

How many times has Pakistan attacked India and what has been the result every time? Lets not kid ourselves here. There was no way Pakistan was going to beat India in conventional war in 1999. The only thing different would have been thousands more dead soldiers on either side.

 

[JaDed]

I think it would be in the best interests of Pakistan And Kashmiris on both sides of the border that Pakistan refrains from merging Gilgit blatistan with itself. The dispute, to be considered a dispute, needs the status of entire territory to remain as it is.

If Pakistan is so eager, just go to war and take what you claim to be yours. If nawaz sharief hadn't developed that itch during kargil, the story would have been different today.

In terms of Land acquiring Pakistan has never won a single war against India,they have a hard time keeping their borders with Afghans(Lol),even then we wouldn't had lost even if its the Pakistan's fav son of soil Raheel commanding the army.

 

[Madplayer]

In terms of Land acquiring Pakistan has never won a single war against India.

Ofcourse they haven't.

they have a hard time keeping their borders with Afghans(Lol)

Thats a problem of many nations and Same goes for India. Even after spending millions of tax payer's money on fencing the border, infiltration hasn't stopped (as per Indian army)

even then we wouldn't had lost even if its the Pakistan's fav son of soil Raheel commanding the army.

I dont know about that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How many votes did it get?

Also British left subcontinet 70 years ago

It hasn't even been reported in the mainstream press, most of the news covered about India has been about the BJP hindu nationalists tightening their grip on the country.

This is just some Indian sponsored MP being paid to say a few words about Pakistan which would have been disregarded the moment he said his piece then sat down.

 

[Syed1]

In terms of Land acquiring Pakistan has never won a single war against India,they have a hard time keeping their borders with Afghans(Lol),even then we wouldn't had lost even if its the Pakistan's fav son of soil Raheel commanding the army.

Haan yeh Azad Kashmir tou khud chal ke agaya tha na humaray pass?

 

[Yossarian]

A spokesperson for Blackman's office indicated that a formal debate on the issue is also likely to be proposed in coming weeks.

The writer obviously is completely ignorant about the workings of the UK Parliament. There are only two chances of this Indian/Hindu sponsored MP managing to get a formal debate, Zilch and None. He's just making a noise to show the Indians that he's doing something in return for all the Indian rupees they're filling his pockets with.

Additionally, he is heavily dependent upon the Hindu voters in the marginal Harrow East parliamentary constituency to get elected as an MP. So he has to keep them happy.

It is one of only twenty-five or so seats in the country where white people make up a minority of the population and has a large Asian population, mostly Indian and Hindu

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/harroweast/

 

[JaDed]

Haan yeh Azad Kashmir tou khud chal ke agaya tha na humaray pass?

Kashmir wasn't annexed to India then.But once it got annexed which was after Pakistan started attacking look how much you couldn't yet literally most of the valley.

 

[JaDed]

Kashmir wasn't annexed to India then.But once it got annexed which was after Pakistan started attacking look how much you couldn't yet literally most of the valley.

Correction on this,apparently Pakistani and Indian forces were under joint command till then and they were attacking and defending.

 

[bleaf27]

Haan yeh Azad Kashmir tou khud chal ke agaya tha na humaray pass?

So firstly you are implying ki Azaad kashmir India ka tha ? Chalo justifies Pakistan Occupied Kashmir as its proper title.
Secondly, Name the wars - history books mein kuch to likhaya hoga sir.
And Azad J and K is a name that Pakistan likes to refer it to. No One else so You can proclaim it as Azad J&K or whatever, it'll remain POK for us

 

[Syed1]

So firstly you are implying ki Azaad kashmir India ka tha ? Chalo justifies Pakistan Occupied Kashmir as its proper title.
Secondly, Name the wars - history books mein kuch to likhaya hoga sir.
And Azad J and K is a name that Pakistan likes to refer it to. No One else so You can proclaim it as Azad J&K or whatever, it'll remain POK for us

You can call it whatever you want. We will call it Azad Kashmir and Occupied Kashmir.

Nomenclature doesn't change the fact that the Kashmiris living in Pakistan are peaceful Pakistani citizens and are a major contributor to the Pakistan Army, whereas the Kashmiris living in India are constantly revolting against the state.

 

[santos11]

India is happy with the status quo as it is.

 

[Madplayer]

Kashmir wasn't annexed to India then.But once it got annexed which was after Pakistan started attacking look how much you couldn't yet literally most of the valley.

Actually there is some history behind why Pakistan actually attacked when in actuality they were in a better position than India as far as the question of which side J&K would have chosen is concerned. Maharaja was trying to stay independent for as long as possible. He was a completely communal and cruel ruler.

Anyway, Malice from Indian side was known from the very beginning when Pakistan signed the standstill agreement and India refused to sign it. The Indian leaders , headed by nehru were constantly in Maharaja's ears trying to convince him to go against the popular sentiment and perhaps the maharaja was beginning to lean towards India (because his personal position would have been more secure with Hindu India as opposed to Muslim Pakistan).

Another Proof of this is presence of Indian army ( iirc it was patiala regiment) in J&K before Pakistan had attacked (in another version after pakistan had attacked but before acession) which shows India's evil intentions. Also before the attack , Maharaja ordered all muslim personnel of police to get disarmed and go to Pakistan which again hinted that some fishy business was going on and they didnt want any opposition from anyone. All of these factors, alongside a whole host of other factors, created insecurities on the Pakistani side.

 

[Madplayer]

This whole dispute is an ugly mess. Today 3 young civilians were killed by brave and well equipped Indian army.

I hope it doesn't escalate now like last year because that would only lead to more loss of kashmiri lives and Indians wont give a damn as usual. Expecting statements like "it is sad but. . . " now.

 

[czar]

Actually there is some history behind why Pakistan actually attacked when in actuality they were in a better position than India as far as the question of which side J&K would have chosen is concerned. Maharaja was trying to stay independent for as long as possible. He was a completely communal and cruel ruler.

Anyway, Malice from Indian side was known from the very beginning when Pakistan signed the standstill agreement and India refused to sign it. The Indian leaders , headed by nehru were constantly in Maharaja's ears trying to convince him to go against the popular sentiment and perhaps the maharaja was beginning to lean towards India (because his personal position would have been more secure with Hindu India as opposed to Muslim Pakistan).

Another Proof of this is presence of Indian army ( iirc it was patiala regiment) in J&K before Pakistan had attacked (in another version after pakistan had attacked but before acession) which shows India's evil intentions. Also before the attack , Maharaja ordered all muslim personnel of police to get disarmed and go to Pakistan which again hinted that some fishy business was going on and they didnt want any opposition from anyone. All of these factors, alongside a whole host of other factors, created insecurities on the Pakistani side.

Would the State of Jammu Kashmir have remained an indepdent Nation today if Indian and Pakistani forces didn't intervene?

 

[JaDed]

Actually there is some history behind why Pakistan actually attacked when in actuality they were in a better position than India as far as the question of which side J&K would have chosen is concerned. Maharaja was trying to stay independent for as long as possible. He was a completely communal and cruel ruler.

Anyway, Malice from Indian side was known from the very beginning when Pakistan signed the standstill agreement and India refused to sign it. The Indian leaders , headed by nehru were constantly in Maharaja's ears trying to convince him to go against the popular sentiment and perhaps the maharaja was beginning to lean towards India (because his personal position would have been more secure with Hindu India as opposed to Muslim Pakistan).

Another Proof of this is presence of Indian army ( iirc it was patiala regiment) in J&K before Pakistan had attacked (in another version after pakistan had attacked but before acession) which shows India's evil intentions. Also before the attack , Maharaja ordered all muslim personnel of police to get disarmed and go to Pakistan which again hinted that some fishy business was going on and they didnt want any opposition from anyone. All of these factors, alongside a whole host of other factors, created insecurities on the Pakistani side.

Indian actions could be true but sounds amazingly one sided,surely none of em are innocent here.

 

[Madplayer]

Indian actions could be true but sounds amazingly one sided,surely none of em are innocent here.

None of them are innocent. Thats true. When we talk about history, not many of our ancestors appear to be saints. This is true for every nation. But in this case, who would come out looking the worse when One side was trying to do something against the wishes of people of Kashmir and another side was trying to do something that the people of Kashmir wanted (the means to ends might be questionable)? It can never be in plain black and white , that's understood but a rational and unbiased mind would always know which side is less evil.

An average Indian (or any other nationality especially in our part of the world) is driven by patriotism. A man wont be able to talk to billions of such people who have pre conceived notions and are unwilling to even listen to what he has to say so that he could make his case. Politicians and people who want to keep a nation in dark thrive upon this thing while commiting atrocities behind the curtains and sometimes openly by making it look fair and just.

 

[Madplayer]

Would the State of Jammu Kashmir have remained an indepdent Nation today if Indian and Pakistani forces didn't intervene?

I dont know about that but at the time of partition, j&k (including current day azad kashmir) as a whole didn't even want independence. Today the scenario might be different.

 

[JaDed]

None of them are innocent. Thats true. When we talk about history, not many of our ancestors appear to be saints. This is true for every nation. But in this case, who would come out looking the worse when One side was trying to do something against the wishes of people of Kashmir and another side was trying to do something that the people of Kashmir wanted (the means to ends might be questionable)? It can never be in plain black and white , that's understood but a rational and unbiased mind would always know which side is less evil.

An average Indian (or any other nationality especially in our part of the world) is driven by patriotism. A man wont be able to talk to billions of such people who have pre conceived notions and are unwilling to even listen to what he has to say so that he could make his case. Politicians and people who want to keep a nation in dark thrive upon this thing while commiting atrocities behind the curtains and sometimes openly by making it look fair and just.

Nationalism and religion spreading the idea or thrusting it comes not with non-violence for sure.India will keep playing this game and probably Pakistan as well,no one is going to given in.

The idea of evil one is different for different perspectives ,depends on what side on is on and that's on every issue ,including many Kashmiri posters here that view terrorism in Pakistan differently from that of in India.

At max things there might be a referendum in 2154 don't see any before that.

 

[Madplayer]

Nationalism and religion spreading the idea or thrusting it comes not with non-violence for sure.India will keep playing this game and probably Pakistan as well,no one is going to given in.

The idea of evil one is different for different perspectives ,depends on what side on is on and that's on every issue ,including many Kashmiri posters here that view terrorism in Pakistan differently from that of in India.

At max things there might be a referendum in 2154 don't see any before that.

In 2154 or 3154 (if the world exists at that time), a solution will have to eventually come about. If someone tells me that this issue will be solved in accordance to the wishes of the people when i wont be alive, i would take it with both hands because this isn't about me or any one person. It's about an idea much bigger than any one of us.

 

[boomboomcheema]

I don't see Kashmir dispute getting solved anytime sooner