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Give this man a medal! For saying what most of us feel about Maulvis and Imams

Yossarian

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If you can, watch the whole video from the beginning

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Blaming everything on the maulvis is not fair either, a lot of Pakistans misery comes from its past elected politicians.
 
I knew he couldn't keep speaking in Urdu, the Punjabi was bursting to get out!
 
Blaming everything on the maulvis is not fair either, a lot of Pakistans misery comes from its past elected politicians.
When the going gets tough .... blame the politicians and excuse the maulvis and imams.

In a country like Pakistan, the average maulvi / imam / peer has far greater power than any politician. After all, who's going to challenge him when he claims "This is Allah's word / will..."

Think of the similarity with the tale of The Emperor's New Clothes
 
When the going gets tough .... blame the politicians and excuse the maulvis and imams.

In a country like Pakistan, the average maulvi / imam / peer has far greater power than any politician. After all, who's going to challenge him when he claims "This is Allah's word / will..."

Think of the similarity with the tale of The Emperor's New Clothes

Economic misery is mainly due to the politicians/state. While clerics have played a major part is societal misery.
 
Maulvis Job is not to produce light Bulbs, or create Facebook, they are Teachers of the deen, That is their Job.
 
Maulvis Job is not to produce light Bulbs, or create Facebook, they are Teachers of the deen, That is their Job.

Well, they act like politicians we can not even appoint a nonmuslim economist even though he is a Pakistani.So, definitely, they are not performing their religious duties properly.
 
So everything that is wrong with Muslim world is because of Maulvis?

How much do you get paid by BJP for posting all day, all night? Ofcourse there is a new trend to blame Muslims in India and such posts sit well with your propaganda.
 
Well, they act like politicians we can not even appoint a nonmuslim economist even though he is a Pakistani.So, definitely, they are not performing their religious duties properly.

That is also their right, we have maulvies in Politics.
 
How much do you get paid by BJP for posting all day, all night? Ofcourse there is a new trend to blame Muslims in India and such posts sit well with your propaganda.

BJP pays athiests? :)) I wish though.

So my question still stands. Is everything wrong in Muslim world is because of Maulvis?
 
Blaming everything on the maulvis is not fair either, a lot of Pakistans misery comes from its past elected politicians.

I agree!

What that Maulvi said in that clip was indeed shameful, embarrassing and rightfully condemned. At the same time you can't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

The Maulvi are one aspect of the problem Pakistan faces. They represent stubbornness, close mindedness and the unwillingness to learn. However these traits aren't just limited to them and can be found in different segments of Pakistani society. The guy took a short clip and went on a tantrum.

At this time of crisis we shouldn't forget that a large part of charity work being done right now in Pakistan is being led by local Maulvis. While a similar charity relief work by local secular and liberal movements can hardly be found.

I think that the good elements within Maulvis and moderate segments of Pakistani society alike should be identified and promoted. While the negative elements and aspects within both should be condemned and scrutinized.

It's naive to believe we will be able to change the society for better by just completely getting rid of religious elements overnight. Pakistan's biggest problem is that no one is able to accept constructive criticism and change their beliefs and behavior if necessary. Maulvis happen to be the textbook example of this issue but it's not inclusive to them.
 
Maulvis have destroyed our society (interference in marriages, careers, freedom in society, discouraging critical thinking etc etc) which leads to economic and social ruin for the country as a whole. A country cannot reach its potential when the situation at the home is not ideal.
 
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he is just another batmeez person. someone should ask him what did he do?

Tell him if there were no Mulvi then he would not be Jaiz ulada of his parents.
 
Economic misery is mainly due to the politicians/state. While clerics have played a major part is societal misery.
In a society which separate state and religion, maybe. But even then, the influence of the religious brigades is staggering.

Just look at the USA, supposedly the ''Champion of the Free World" and see how the whole Mid-East foreign, strategic and military policy of the USA is dictated by Evangelicals (along with the financial backing and support.of followers of another Abrahamic faith)
 
Maulvis have destroyed our society (interference in marriages, careers, freedom in society, discouraging critical thinking etc etc) which leads to economic and social ruin for the country as a whole. A country cannot reach its potential when the situation at the home is not ideal.
You're talking like an athiest
 
Maulvis are the same as Pandits in Hinduism and Popes in Christianity.
Their job is not to come up with new inventions.
Their job is to teach people about their religion.

I can't believe people from the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan hate Maulvis so much.
Shame
 
he is just another batmeez person. someone should ask him what did he do?

Tell him if there were no Mulvi then he would not be Jaiz ulada of his parents.

LOL show me an ayat or hadith that says one has to be a maulvi to administer nikah.
 
Maulvis are the same as Pandits in Hinduism and Popes in Christianity.
Their job is not to come up with new inventions.
Their job is to teach people about their religion.

I can't believe people from the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan hate Maulvis so much.
Shame

Well, LOL, when Pakistan has become an Islamic country? If you meant by it, "ON PAPER", then , yes
 
Maulvis are the same as Pandits in Hinduism and Popes in Christianity.
Their job is not to come up with new inventions.
Their job is to teach people about their religion.

I can't believe people from the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan hate Maulvis so much.
Shame

It's the incorrect teaching that is the problem.
 
LOL show me an ayat or hadith that says one has to be a maulvi to administer nikah.

show me ayat or hadith that shows mulvi has to make these technologies?
That's not their job to make these things. What did this guy make?
 
show me ayat or hadith that shows mulvi has to make these technologies?
That's not their job to make these things. What did this guy make?

Their job should not be more than leading prayers other than that they have no role to play in the running affairs of the country
 
Maulvis are the same as Pandits in Hinduism and Popes in Christianity.
Their job is not to come up with new inventions.
Their job is to teach people about their religion.

I can't believe people from the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan hate Maulvis so much.
Shame
If they left it at that, nobody will have any problem.
A school teacher's job is also to teach. But, unlike the religious preacher, the school teacher doesn't then turn around to the students and tells them if they don't follow what they're being taught (often the teacher's own slant on the topic) , they'll go to hell and be damned forever.
 
Agree with the Rant 100%

However the Maulvi said one thing which is very true, and that is if Trump declares the lockdown to be over, most lockdowns around the world would ease also.

I don’t doubt this.
 
Maulvis are the same as Pandits in Hinduism and Popes in Christianity.
Their job is not to come up with new inventions.
Their job is to teach people about their religion.

I can't believe people from the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan hate Maulvis so much.
Shame

agree,
two weeks ago buildings collapsed in karachi more a less 25 people passed away. No engineer were accountable. People are killed by doctors no problem, people are killed by school teachers and professors, no problem.
But why mulvis? If a chicken was killed by a mulvi we make it bigger issue than anything else.
 
if they do then we would not have female prime mistier twice.

Don't want it to be true but we might even have another woman prime minister in the form of Maryam Nawaz.
I don't see any maulvi criticise her.
Rather she has a lot of fans in punjab
 
Don't want it to be true but we might even have another woman prime minister in the form of Maryam Nawaz.
I don't see any maulvi criticise her.
Rather she has a lot of fans in punjab

lol true. that all up too Army who they wanna bring.
 
show me ayat or hadith that shows mulvi has to make these technologies?
That's not their job to make these things. What did this guy make?

You need to watch the video again, slowly.

The point he was making is that Maulvis who claim Amreeka etc are kafirs etc are the same kafirs who invented FaceBook, Internet, technologies, medicine, which are USED by the same maulvis riddiculing them, meaning the Maulvis are hypocrits, who would also jump at the chance to bail Pakistan for a better life in Amreeka.

How on earth you arrived at the conclusion that Maulvis need to embark on an invention spree only serves to prove what a detrimental effect they've had on people/society - case in point - your comment.

If Maulvis hate everything about Amreeka, then why use Amreekan inventions? Can you answer this?
 
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And what has 70 odd years of military and Non maulvi Leadership achieved For Pakistan?
 
You need to watch the video again, slowly.

The point he was making is that Maulvis who claim Amreeka etc are kafirs etc are the same kafirs who invented FaceBook, Internet, technologies, medicine, which are USED by the same maulvis riddiculing them, meaning the Maulvis are hypocrits, who would also jump at the chance to bail Pakistan for a better life in Amreeka.

How on earth you arrived at the conclusion that Maulvis need to embark on an invention spree only serves to prove what a detrimental effect they've had on people/society - case in point - your comment.

If Maulvis hate everything about Amreeka, then why use Amreekan inventions? Can you answer this?
Don't blame him. Lack of comprehension skills. Probably due to being influenced too much by maulvis or peers, who discourage their followers from thinking for themselves. Else they may stop following them. :))
 
It's the incorrect teaching that is the problem.

Can you give me one such example? We can compare the Moulvi's teaching with the Tafsir and see how far they are lying to the gullible public. But then again, can you even trust the tafsirs?
 
You need to watch the video again, slowly.

The point he was making is that Maulvis who claim Amreeka etc are kafirs etc are the same kafirs who invented FaceBook, Internet, technologies, medicine, which are USED by the same maulvis riddiculing them, meaning the Maulvis are hypocrits, who would also jump at the chance to bail Pakistan for a better life in Amreeka.

How on earth you arrived at the conclusion that Maulvis need to embark on an invention spree only serves to prove what a detrimental effect they've had on people/society - case in point - your comment.

If Maulvis hate everything about Amreeka, then why use Amreekan inventions? Can you answer this?

show me a single speech about the mulvi talking negative about america? I am talking about big scholars. You will find bad apples with good apples. If one or two mulvi said bad things about USA that does not mean all of them are bad and what about thousand of mulvis living here in the USA?
 
Can you give me one such example? We can compare the Moulvi's teaching with the Tafsir and see how far they are lying to the gullible public. But then again, can you even trust the tafsirs?

Respectfully - I am a student of religion while from what I've seen, you have gotten your knowledge of Islam from websites like WikiIslam.

There's no room for discussion here, unfortunately.
 
I am not a follower of any Maulvi. Far from it.

I feel no shame in calling something good when I see good. There are plenty of bad examples among the Maulvis. The majority are. However they have the influence and reach to common man in rural area and remote villages. As long as those areas can't be provided with better education facilities and better lifestyle it would be hard to diminish the influence of Maulvis.

For the time being need to promote those who are a sane voice among the many insane ones and can still hold some authenticity among their audience. A moderate scholar like Ghamdi though a good person will only have his reach in the educated part of the young population and would hardly be able to reach the common folks as other maulvis. The common villager just wouldn't see him as authentic.

I wanted to introduce Allama Nasir Madni in this thread (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...inapped-and-tortured-by-an-overseas-Pakistani )where I discuss the details of recent heinous attack on him by a British-Pakistani

This is what I wrote about him in the other thread

How many of you know Allama Nasir Madni?

He is a social media star among the maulvis. He has a large Fellowship on the social media with views reaching up to millions. He uploads his recorded sermons given in villages on his youtube channel. Some just like his funny nature, others like to make fun of his style and some listen to him religiously.

I am not a big follower of any maulvi hazrat but whenever I come across a video by Allama Nasir Madni I give it a listen they are funny and always have a good message. He is one of the few Maulvi to hold sermons in pure Punjabi language. He goes village to village and raises social awareness. Yes, he is a religious guy so from a secular and liberal point of view he can't be considered a big hero but I have seen many nice points in his sermons which for Pakistani society hold great value. Especially when you consider that his audience is villagers who could benefit greatly from his open minded standpoints for a maulvi

This guy has a very funny and humorous way to address his audience but it works.

Here is his recent video on Coronavirus:


It's to the point. No crying over not being able to go to masjid or praying jummah. No mention of any conspiracy theories. No blaming kuffar. In simple but funny words he explains to his supporters what to do to protect oneself and the family from the virus. His advice in accordance with the medical guidelines. He tells people to stay home and cooperate with the governments orders.

Then there is this video of his from 28th Feb. Those were early days of coronavirus. Hardly any cases in Pakistan, very few were taking Corona seriously while other started hoarding masks and their prices started skyrocketing. Video is in Punjabi language


some good points from the video:
-Medical store should be considerate and not increase the prices of mask
- he says that even if our enemies are dying we shouldn't be happy. It's a disease affecting the whole world.
- he criticizes the typical Muslim behavior of increasing the prices of food during ramadan
- he calls on rich Muslims to buy masks and distribute them for free among the poor.

@2:00 he says the whole world should unite together and cooperate with one another on the issue of this disease. He says Islam teaches us to cooperate with one another if nations are hit by calamities.

@4:15 he say media should not spread panic. Everybody should cooperate with the government. People should stop playing politics and all the different government of various provinces should unite together. The whole world should cooperate with one another.

@4:50 he leads by example and takes oath from his supporters that they will collect money to buy masks and distribute for free them among the poor madrassa students. At that time there was no ban on schools in Pakistan

There is no condemning of the Chinese or calling the virus a godly punishment for non-Muslims which won't harm Muslims. A strong demonstration of foresight and a call for precautionary measures like free masks.

This guy has in this little clip said more sane stuff than many expert TV anchors on Pakistani media. He has said more sane stuff than many world leaders. This guy is intelligent, knows how to reach the common people and should be supported. You won't find him sitting on TV shows issuing fatwas. You won't find him calling for religious protests and anarchy in the country.

Now no one is perfect and I am sure he will have many views not compatible with modern progressiv western values as all Maulvis but I have found his commentary on many social issues to be exemplary and a good middle ground for the Pakistani society.

He also has a unique ability which I haven't seen in any other Maulvi: The ability to self-reflect and self-criticize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi7FVLlcK2Q

In this video he criticize Maulivs openly and says they are responsible for losing their respect in the society.

@0:52 he says no one else is responsible for bad state of Islam than ourselves, the Maulvis.

@3:07 he says we the maulvis keep on blaming the government for not allowing loud speaker, or rallies but we are the one at fault here not the government. The government hasn't stopped us from praying. What's the point of having multiple loud speakers all around the mosque when the guys sitting in the first row are sleeping. Even during Jumma you will find people sleeping in mosque.

I don't watch any videos of him. Once a year perhaps if YouTube recommends me randomly. I have long recognized him as gem among all the garbage. Hence it also didn't take me long to find his videos which demonstrate his superior approach over the typical Maulvi.

In my eyes this guy albeit his funny way and religious affiliation is doing a respectable job to reach the common village folk and make them aware of various social issues.
 
I am not a follower of any Maulvi. Far from it.

I feel no shame in calling something good when I see good. There are plenty of bad examples among the Maulvis. The majority are. However they have the influence and reach to common man in rural area and remote villages. As long as those areas can't be provided with better education facilities and better lifestyle it would be hard to diminish the influence of Maulvis.

For the time being need to promote those who are a sane voice among the many insane ones and can still hold some authenticity among their audience. A moderate scholar like Ghamdi though a good person will only have his reach in the educated part of the young population and would hardly be able to reach the common folks as other maulvis. The common villager just wouldn't see him as authentic.

I wanted to introduce Allama Nasir Madni in this thread (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...inapped-and-tortured-by-an-overseas-Pakistani )where I discuss the details of recent heinous attack on him by a British-Pakistani

This is what I wrote about him in the other thread



This guy has a very funny and humorous way to address his audience but it works.

Here is his recent video on Coronavirus:


It's to the point. No crying over not being able to go to masjid or praying jummah. No mention of any conspiracy theories. No blaming kuffar. In simple but funny words he explains to his supporters what to do to protect oneself and the family from the virus. His advice in accordance with the medical guidelines. He tells people to stay home and cooperate with the governments orders.

Then there is this video of his from 28th Feb. Those were early days of coronavirus. Hardly any cases in Pakistan, very few were taking Corona seriously while other started hoarding masks and their prices started skyrocketing. Video is in Punjabi language


some good points from the video:
-Medical store should be considerate and not increase the prices of mask
- he says that even if our enemies are dying we shouldn't be happy. It's a disease affecting the whole world.
- he criticizes the typical Muslim behavior of increasing the prices of food during ramadan
- he calls on rich Muslims to buy masks and distribute them for free among the poor.

@2:00 he says the whole world should unite together and cooperate with one another on the issue of this disease. He says Islam teaches us to cooperate with one another if nations are hit by calamities.

@4:15 he say media should not spread panic. Everybody should cooperate with the government. People should stop playing politics and all the different government of various provinces should unite together. The whole world should cooperate with one another.

@4:50 he leads by example and takes oath from his supporters that they will collect money to buy masks and distribute for free them among the poor madrassa students. At that time there was no ban on schools in Pakistan

There is no condemning of the Chinese or calling the virus a godly punishment for non-Muslims which won't harm Muslims. A strong demonstration of foresight and a call for precautionary measures like free masks.

This guy has in this little clip said more sane stuff than many expert TV anchors on Pakistani media. He has said more sane stuff than many world leaders. This guy is intelligent, knows how to reach the common people and should be supported. You won't find him sitting on TV shows issuing fatwas. You won't find him calling for religious protests and anarchy in the country.

Now no one is perfect and I am sure he will have many views not compatible with modern progressiv western values as all Maulvis but I have found his commentary on many social issues to be exemplary and a good middle ground for the Pakistani society.

He also has a unique ability which I haven't seen in any other Maulvi: The ability to self-reflect and self-criticize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi7FVLlcK2Q

In this video he criticize Maulivs openly and says they are responsible for losing their respect in the society.

@0:52 he says no one else is responsible for bad state of Islam than ourselves, the Maulvis.

@3:07 he says we the maulvis keep on blaming the government for not allowing loud speaker, or rallies but we are the one at fault here not the government. The government hasn't stopped us from praying. What's the point of having multiple loud speakers all around the mosque when the guys sitting in the first row are sleeping. Even during Jumma you will find people sleeping in mosque.

I don't watch any videos of him. Once a year perhaps if YouTube recommends me randomly. I have long recognized him as gem among all the garbage. Hence it also didn't take me long to find his videos which demonstrate his superior approach over the typical Maulvi.

In my eyes this guy albeit his funny way and religious affiliation is doing a respectable job to reach the common village folk and make them aware of various social issues.

good post.

Not all mulvi are good neither all bad,
Not all Engineers are good neither all bad
Not all Doctors are good neither all bad
neither all teachers are good neither all bad.

Just like every society you find good or bad same thing with mulvis. There are some priest i know who rape people that does not make all of them bad.
 
This Allama Nasir Madni is a golden gem. I keep on getting positively surprised by him.

Another great clip of his dated 15th March on Coronavirus when the cases in Pakistan were still low and PSL matches were being held while the government was sleeping.


Just listen to the first 30 sec

- Prays to Allah to protect all the Muslims from the virus
- Prays to Allah to protect the whole mankind and the world from the disease.
- Says when coronavirus first appeared in China he made a prayer for them and people in Pakistan heavily criticized him.

Someone should tell this guy that when Coronavirus first appeared in China the whole world was busy making fun of china their eating habits and was enjoying the show from far.

Condemn the bad elements in the Maluvis and promote the good ones. It's easy to show someone's flaws but hardly anyone in Pakistan is willing to appreciate someone with sincerity. Media promoted the bad and dumb Mullah will it at least recognize the sincere and good one?
 
BJP pays athiests? :)) I wish though.

So my question still stands. Is everything wrong in Muslim world is because of Maulvis?
What's this new trend with you people with calling yourself atheist and than coming up with all of the hindutava talking points
 
show me a single speech about the mulvi talking negative about america? I am talking about big scholars. You will find bad apples with good apples. If one or two mulvi said bad things about USA that does not mean all of them are bad and what about thousand of mulvis living here in the USA?

Show you a single speech? Watch the video in the OP! Is the audio mute at your end?
 
Pakistan was a very liberal country before Zia regime with nightclubs, legal alcohol, and a plan for a big casino in karachi like the Las vegas type one and people would take maulvis as Looney's

So Zia was a army dictator who encouraged "his version" of Islam with propaganda and also forcefully asked people to follow what "he deemed" as real Isalm and lots of laws were introduced and repealed to fit his version of Islam and set the course for pakistan and in this process the fringe group of maulvis becomes the one's calling the shots
So should we blame the fringe group of molvis(not all molvis too that's the sad part just the one's who fitted his vision) or should we blame the person who asked tham, encouraged tham to make the shots and set pakistan in the course of religious extremissm that we are at right know

I would put a lot of the blame on the army dictators rather than molvis

They are just smoke but what's behind the smoke is that matters
 
These mullahs are Allah's azaab on us. A typical Mullah is a matric fail unparh ganwar whose only achievement in life is he grew out his beard, can't believe such losers hold so much sway over millions of illiterates in our country.
 
This Allama Nasir Madni is a golden gem. I keep on getting positively surprised by him.

Another great clip of his dated 15th March on Coronavirus when the cases in Pakistan were still low and PSL matches were being held while the government was sleeping.


Just listen to the first 30 sec

- Prays to Allah to protect all the Muslims from the virus
- Prays to Allah to protect the whole mankind and the world from the disease.
- Says when coronavirus first appeared in China he made a prayer for them and people in Pakistan heavily criticized him.

Someone should tell this guy that when Coronavirus first appeared in China the whole world was busy making fun of china their eating habits and was enjoying the show from far.

Condemn the bad elements in the Maluvis and promote the good ones. It's easy to show someone's flaws but hardly anyone in Pakistan is willing to appreciate someone with sincerity. Media promoted the bad and dumb Mullah will it at least recognize the sincere and good one?

Thanks for sharing this
 
These mullahs are Allah's azaab on us. A typical Mullah is a matric fail unparh ganwar whose only achievement in life is he grew out his beard, can't believe such losers hold so much sway over millions of illiterates in our country.

Even literates follow them. Thats the sad part.
 
We need an Ataturk type leader to reverse Zia's legacy

Yes. Musharraf had the golden opportunity but he turned out to be a total loser. For all his ills, Zia's foreign policy was the redeeming factor. He knew how to take care of nasty neighbours and global powers.
 
Yes. Musharraf had the golden opportunity but he turned out to be a total loser. For all his ills, Zia's foreign policy was the redeeming factor. He knew how to take care of nasty neighbours and global powers.

With Zia's foreign policy do you mean the efforts to give birth to Jihadist mindset in the region, equip the Moulvis with weapon and let them built countless sanctuaries through out the region to spread the same mindset on to the next generation. Inviting Jihadists from all over the world to come to Pakistan for training? Allowing Abdullah Azzam the spiritual leader of Bin Laden to hold sermons in Peshawar and spread his ideology which then gave birth to Al-Qaeda?

If you consider that to be his redeeming factor then that's fine with me. Just remember you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can not expect the Mullah to die for your regional power struggle and at the same time be quiet and behave himself once those services are deemed forbidden by the hire ups in Washington.
 
These mullahs are Allah's azaab on us. A typical Mullah is a matric fail unparh ganwar whose only achievement in life is he grew out his beard, can't believe such losers hold so much sway over millions of illiterates in our country.

Mullahs will curse America and the west all day long but then use American rolexes to tell the time and American made apple phones to transmit their videos on
These mullahs were funded by Charlie Wilson and brought back alive by Bush, they won't stop their manic behaviours until the messiah comes to save us all
 
Why dont Pakistanis listen more to Javed Ghamidi? He's an amazing scholar & a true gentleman. But like Maulana Wahiduddin, He's probably 10-15 years too early for indian subcontinental muslims.
 
Not all Molvis and Imams are bad. Many are wise who promote peace. He was trying to make a point but gave some bad examples. It's mostly corrupt politicians who have made Pakistan struggle, but Molvis have negatively influenced social life of Pakistanis.

Do agree though that Pakistan does have many jahil, troublemaking, good for nothing Molvis. They need to be dealt with harshly before they eventually turn Pakistan into Afghanistan.
 
These mullahs are Allah's azaab on us. A typical Mullah is a matric fail unparh ganwar whose only achievement in life is he grew out his beard, can't believe such losers hold so much sway over millions of illiterates in our country.

well said they are Allah's Azaab..because jaisay log hon ga way he log aun pa musalat kiay jain ga.

if they are azzab, we are no less than them...
 
These mullahs are Allah's azaab on us. A typical Mullah is a matric fail unparh ganwar whose only achievement in life is he grew out his beard, can't believe such losers hold so much sway over millions of illiterates in our country.

A typical mullah is not skilled enough to change his car tyres let alone hold a job which is productive to society. Being mullahs give them a way out in life
 
show me ayat or hadith that shows mulvi has to make these technologies?
That's not their job to make these things. What did this guy make?

Molvis should then stay in lane and not like their noses in matters of Society or politics.

Besides most molvis in Pakistan’s only qualification to their position is having a beard and failing in life. Many of these mullahs don’t even have formal training
 
A typical mullah is not skilled enough to change his car tyres let alone hold a job which is productive to society. Being mullahs give them a way out in life

it does not necessarily means a doctor can change ct tyres?
There are many doctors in NYC who work in the hospitals and also hold Aalaam degree.
 
Molvis should then stay in lane and not like their noses in matters of Society or politics.

Besides most molvis in Pakistan’s only qualification to their position is having a beard and failing in life. Many of these mullahs don’t even have formal training

why not? who supported Qaid e azam in all his efforts?
Mulana muhammed ali johar
Mulana shabir ahmed usmani and many more...
they are pakistani and have all rights to do whatever they want just like other pakistani citizens.
 
it does not necessarily means a doctor can change ct tyres?
There are many doctors in NYC who work in the hospitals and also hold Aalaam degree.
It’s an example. Basically these mullahs generally are failures in life but somehow are now in positions where they are judging people and see themselves as guardians of the faith
 
These mullahs are Allah's azaab on us. A typical Mullah is a matric fail unparh ganwar whose only achievement in life is he grew out his beard, can't believe such losers hold so much sway over millions of illiterates in our country.

Very true for katmullahs. They are a curse on Pakistan.
 
Respectfully - I am a student of religion while from what I've seen, you have gotten your knowledge of Islam from websites like WikiIslam.

There's no room for discussion here, unfortunately.

No Man. I don't read from Wiki Islam. I refer to Bukhari/Sahih Muslim/Tafsirs if I need any info. They are compiled by people who are well versed in Arabic and who have done extensive research and spent their life times in studying and understanding.

Listening to modern day subcontinent Maulvis who can only read Arabic but have no clue what the Ayat says is a total waste of time.

Go ahead and tell me where these Maulvis are twisting the teachings of Quran...
 
We need an Ataturk type leader to reverse Zia's legacy

Ataturk will be considered a Tyrant by all Muslims if his laws are implemented in Subcontinent.

He abolished things like Praying in Arabic, Islamic Veil, Islamic polygamy. Law based on European lines introduced. Also, you would have to give up your Arabic/Persian Alphabet and adopt the original Alphabet of Sindhi or Punjabi.
 
No Man. I don't read from Wiki Islam. I refer to Bukhari/Sahih Muslim/Tafsirs if I need any info. They are compiled by people who are well versed in Arabic and who have done extensive research and spent their life times in studying and understanding.

Listening to modern day subcontinent Maulvis who can only read Arabic but have no clue what the Ayat says is a total waste of time.

Go ahead and tell me where these Maulvis are twisting the teachings of Quran...

So, Maulvis can't understand Ayat and you can?

There can be some ignorant Maulvis but the way you pretend to know more about Islam than actual Muslims is funny.
 
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These mullahs are Allah's azaab on us. A typical Mullah is a matric fail unparh ganwar whose only achievement in life is he grew out his beard, can't believe such losers hold so much sway over millions of illiterates in our country.

I'm assuming you follow peers?, who in my opinion are corrupt to the core
 
Maulvis are the same as Pandits in Hinduism and Popes in Christianity.
Their job is not to come up with new inventions.
Their job is to teach people about their religion.

I can't believe people from the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan hate Maulvis so much.
Shame

The ulamah in the region of lancashire I live in are well educated academically as well as religiously so have a fine balance , the peer from the brailvee clan are completely corrupt
 
I'm assuming you follow peers?, who in my opinion are corrupt to the core

I don't need to follow any peers or mullah. Allah has blessed me with a working brain and a pair of eyes. I can read and understand my religion myself rather than having a jahil unparh tell me about it.
 
It’s an example. Basically these mullahs generally are failures in life but somehow are now in positions where they are judging people and see themselves as guardians of the faith

what is success criteria?
If you think success is money..then Prophet does not have money, he did not leave anything behind neither most of the suhabas. Today you have money tomorrow they will.
If you success means fame, then Mulavi have more fame then you and me, and they have more followers then any body else.
If you are muslim then i am most of your family members go to mulvis to ask them questions.
If Mulvis are not guurdians of faith then who is?
The lowest ranked mulvi is thousand time better than you and i.
 
No Man. I don't read from Wiki Islam. I refer to Bukhari/Sahih Muslim/Tafsirs if I need any info. They are compiled by people who are well versed in Arabic and who have done extensive research and spent their life times in studying and understanding.

Listening to modern day subcontinent Maulvis who can only read Arabic but have no clue what the Ayat says is a total waste of time.

Go ahead and tell me where these Maulvis are twisting the teachings of Quran...

how you know mulvi has no clue what ayat means? what you think math teacher does not know how to solve a problem.
A person who spent 8 years in madras does not know what ayat means. what a logic is that. I guess Abdullah719 was right now to continue this debate.
 
I don't need to follow any peers or mullah. Allah has blessed me with a working brain and a pair of eyes. I can read and understand my religion myself rather than having a jahil unparh tell me about it.

Spot on!
 
what is success criteria?
If you think success is money..then Prophet does not have money, he did not leave anything behind neither most of the suhabas. Today you have money tomorrow they will.
If you success means fame, then Mulavi have more fame then you and me, and they have more followers then any body else.
If you are muslim then i am most of your family members go to mulvis to ask them questions.
If Mulvis are not guurdians of faith then who is?
The lowest ranked mulvi is thousand time better than you and i.

The lowest ranked molvi is responsible for deaths and destruction due to his selfishness and being a burden on society. Corona virus is an example
 
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With Zia's foreign policy do you mean the efforts to give birth to Jihadist mindset in the region, equip the Moulvis with weapon and let them built countless sanctuaries through out the region to spread the same mindset on to the next generation. Inviting Jihadists from all over the world to come to Pakistan for training? Allowing Abdullah Azzam the spiritual leader of Bin Laden to hold sermons in Peshawar and spread his ideology which then gave birth to Al-Qaeda?

If you consider that to be his redeeming factor then that's fine with me. Just remember you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can not expect the Mullah to die for your regional power struggle and at the same time be quiet and behave himself once those services are deemed forbidden by the hire ups in Washington.


He defeated Soviet Union without letting America to transgress our sovereignty like they did after 9/11. That was no small achievement. His approach was proactive and he kept India at its place during his tenure. Had he remained for another 5-10 years, Kashmir issue would have been 'resolved'. ISI was never the same after his demise.
His narrow mindedness was an issue and we had to pay the price for it later but it would have been a price worth paying had he completed his mission.

Today, radical mullahs have been mostly eliminated or discouraged in Pakistan. Present day mullahs are jaahils who are taking full advantage of jahaalat and emotions of gullible awaam. And they have been doing this for centuries in subcontinent, so solely blaming Zia for it is not right.
 
Pakistan was a very liberal country before Zia regime with nightclubs, legal alcohol, and a plan for a big casino in karachi like the Las vegas type one and people would take maulvis as Looney's

So Zia was a army dictator who encouraged "his version" of Islam with propaganda and also forcefully asked people to follow what "he deemed" as real Isalm and lots of laws were introduced and repealed to fit his version of Islam and set the course for pakistan and in this process the fringe group of maulvis becomes the one's calling the shots
So should we blame the fringe group of molvis(not all molvis too that's the sad part just the one's who fitted his vision) or should we blame the person who asked tham, encouraged tham to make the shots and set pakistan in the course of religious extremissm that we are at right know

I would put a lot of the blame on the army dictators rather than molvis

They are just smoke but what's behind the smoke is that matters

Pakistan was never the type of liberal country that you are it presenting to be. It owes its existence to Islamic consciousness awakened among the Muslims of subcontinent. The night clubs and alcohol that you are referring to were the continuation of elite lifestyle from the colonial era. Same was the case in cultural islands like Kabul and Tehran but that was never the way of life among masses.

Zia did not emerged out of thin air. While it is true that Zia tried to implement an extreme interpretation of Islam but to say that he did that without the approval of masses is wrong. His funeral prayers had the highest number of attendants ever in Pakistan's history. In Pakistan, no dictator can operate without the approval of masses. This narrative of all powerful army is highly inaccurate but conveniently peddled by the enemies.
 
I don't need to follow any peers or mullah. Allah has blessed me with a working brain and a pair of eyes. I can read and understand my religion myself rather than having a jahil unparh tell me about it.
In a country like Pakistan, never mind the average man in the street, absolutely no one, not a politician, not a businessman, not a doctor, lawyer or any other professional, dares to question or challenge the outpourings of any maulvi, Imam, or peer, no matter how twisted the bile that is being spouted out.

The only ones who can challenge maulvis / imams / peers are other maulvis / imams / peers from a different faction, more often via hate speeches or by condoning (by their zealot followers) bombings of each others mosques, seminaries and homes.
 
The lowest ranked molvi is responsible for deaths and destruction due to his selfishness and being a burden on society. Corona virus is an example

which Mulvi said not to follow instructions. In that case there is an indian doctor who said corona virus is nothing. is not he is responsible for death?
 
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