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"Good leadership can turn around the team in any situation!": Shahid Afridi

So it was an established fact that Babar is not a leadership material.

He should have never taken the captaincy from Shaheen. Should have stayed away and now we have seen what happened.
I hope somebody puts some sense in him and he resign from captaincy for good.
 
What afridi is saying is 100% true. Its why the 2017-2019 team was a solid mid card team. Their was genuine motivation and confidence in those players.

Whereas currently this lot looks like their all faiked tiktok stars
 
That's true but if you look at Pakistan's batting in this tournament, I don't think even Clive Lloyd or Steve Waugh could have done anything with this team. Babar and Rizwan were bad enough, but the middle order was shockingly bad. Besides those two, none of the batters even have 50 runs in the entire tournament. That's minnow level stuff on-par with teams like Uganda and PNG.
 
Yep even good leader falter when you have an average side. Example of ponting in 2011 WC
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
That's true but if you look at Pakistan's batting in this tournament, I don't think even Clive Lloyd or Steve Waugh could have done anything with this team. Babar and Rizwan were bad enough, but the middle order was shockingly bad. Besides those two, none of the batters even have 50 runs in the entire tournament. That's minnow level stuff on-par with teams like Uganda and PNG.
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Steve waugh would have never selected this team to begin with.

This is mostly babar's team.

Only fakhar, Usman Khan, Azam Khan and Abrar are the ones who aren't selected due to babar.

Usman khan was selected for the UAE drama, Azam due to moin Khan's pleas, Abrar due to past pressure from misbah, Hafeez and various other pcb members. Imad and Amir are selected for the same reason, in wc 2024 babar was scrutinized for showcasing ego and taking nawaz, Shadab and Hasan Ali over abrar, Imad and Amir.

Fakhar is their for past odi exploits. He isn't a part of the friends group.

Everyone else is a friend, especially shadab who babar is protecting the most atm.
 
It's the captain's responsibility to get the best performance out of the players he has selected for the playing XI.

Captaincy is a significant role, but some Pakistanis will have a gulli mohala thinking and will implement at the international level by making the best player the captain

In international cricket, a captain should be chosen based on leadership skills aswell as someone who has game awareness. Can make tactical decision and plan a strategy.
Not just make the best player your captain

Shan masood or sarfaraz ahmed may not be a great players but have all the above qualities
Both would have done better than Babar
 
emranabbas said:
It's the captain's responsibility to get the best performance out of the players he has selected for the playing XI.

Captaincy is a significant role, but some Pakistanis will have a gulli mohala thinking and will implement at the international level by making the best player the captain

In international cricket, a captain should be chosen based on leadership skills aswell as someone who has game awareness. Can make tactical decision and plan a strategy.
Not just make the best player your captain

Shan masood or sarfaraz ahmed may not be a great players but have all the above qualities
Both would have done better than Babar
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Shan masood doesn't my dude. He ain't a good captain.

Haris, Sarfraz, Saud shakeel are though.
 
How obvious can this agenda be now?

Shaheen only putting in performances when they don’t matter and going missing in crunch situations…his FIL now talking about leadership and pushing Shaheen for the position.

These Afridis are toxic. I just wish this board treats SSA like the fraud that he has become
 
If he thinks his sil Shaheen could have done better he really is as stupid as his actions suggest
 
Local.Dada said:
Shan Masood seems more captaincy material to me than Babar, obviously outside view. Plays the same style of cricket but seems to have more awareness.on top of that is fit, confident and articulate.
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Anyone is more captaincy material then babar.

That isn't a high standard to set lol
 
mominsaigol said:
Shan masood doesn't my dude. He ain't a good captain.

Haris, Sarfraz, Saud shakeel are though.
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What have Harris or Saud accomplished?

Fans tend to hype up players without any substantial achievements, then expect these players to remain humble.

Babar, Rizwan, Saim, Azam Khan, Usman Khan, etc., were all highly praised before playing a single international game and were given star status. Why would you expect them to stay grounded and focus on the game when they are already superstars

At least Shan has played and captained in English county cricket, which gives him a different mentality compared to the others.
 
emranabbas said:
What have Harris or Saud accomplished?

Fans tend to hype up players without any substantial achievements, then expect these players to remain humble.

Babar, Rizwan, Saim, Azam Khan, Usman Khan, etc., were all highly praised before playing a single international game and were given star status. Why would you expect them to stay grounded and focus on the game when they are already superstars

At least Shan has played and captained in English county cricket, which gives him a different mentality compared to the others.
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Haris achieved winning acc cup which is far greater then anything shan has ever done.

Now as for Babar, Rizwan, Saim, Azam, Usman, I never hyped up any of them so idk why you're generalising me to other fans.
 
mominsaigol said:
Haris achieved winning acc cup which is far greater then anything shan has ever done.

Now as for Babar, Rizwan, Saim, Azam, Usman, I never hyped up any of them so idk why you're generalising me to other fans.
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I'm not generalising you I'm talking about fans in general
 
emranabbas said:
I'm not generalising you I'm talking about fans in general
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Babar is overhyped because he was used as a marketing propaganda as Pakistan's answer to kohli and clearly gullible misbah fans fell for it. Bobby is an average bat who has a decent drives, but he's beyond poor with his backfoot, something that frequently gets him out whike pulling or he gets stumped. He also has poor shot selection awareness.

He's the most overrated bat and no where close to the likes of saleem malik, Aamer sohail, Ijaz Ahmed, Inzi etc. Saeed anwar vs Babar was never up for debate. Fans hype Bobby because they have poor cricket fundamentals.

Rizwan is a legside hack so the idea that he's viewed as Pakistan's 2nd best bat is hilarious.

Azam lol.

As for saim and Usman, I had hope for them but their techinque isn't good enough, Saim has limited stroke play and is an Umar akmal when it comes to shot selection as for usman he looks like a gully cricketer.

When it comes to haris, Haris is a tulle baz but he's much better then shadab of all people, but he isn't really more then a no 7 slogger, but his captaincy was very good in acc.

Now as for saud, Saud is a proper class bat with excellent fundamentals especially with spin. He and Abdullah aren't bad batters, Saud I have hope for, as for Abdullah, Abdullah needs to use his technique for lofted strokes, he's too comfortable being a right handed imam atm.
 
Shahid Afridi is lobbying for his son-in-law again. He is the biggest political Pak cricket has ever seen! He was the the one who orchestrated oath saga against Younis Khan!
 
cricketmania22 said:
Shahid Afridi is lobbying for his son-in-law again. He is the biggest political Pak cricket has ever seen! He was the the one who orchestrated oath saga against Younis Khan!
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The oath saga against YK has to happen because YK was never going to function beyond tournaments. Yes an alternative would have been to make YK an exclusive tournament only captain and take the aussie route where Marsh is currently captain ahead of pat Cummings.

But YK worked because he was the biggest psycho alive, and could actually keep players with massive ego's like afridi and Misbah in check.

YK is the type of guy who would sock you in the mouth of you spoke up, heck he's the only player during the misbah era that would dogwalk all over misbah be it in the test squad or just forcing everyone to play him in the odi wc in 2015, despite Misbah wanting his buddy asad shafiq to play.

Regardless Shahid Afridi is a political piece of @%@%#, Who only cares about his own interests.

However, case in point, if afridi never did oathgate, then someone else would have, you can't have someone like YK captain you in tours.

Thats the sad reality of Pakistan. Pat Cummings is lucky that aussie players are mature. No one likes stark, and before the ban, no one liked Warner, however these 2 are mature enough to not cause drama and listen to their captain.

Not the case with pakistani players.
 
mominsaigol said:
The oath saga against YK has to happen because YK was never going to function beyond tournaments. Yes an alternative would have been to make YK an exclusive tournament only captain and take the aussie route where Marsh is currently captain ahead of pat Cummings.

But YK worked because he was the biggest psycho alive, and could actually keep players with massive ego's like afridi and Misbah in check.

YK is the type of guy who would sock you in the mouth of you spoke up, heck he's the only player during the misbah era that would dogwalk all over misbah be it in the test squad or just forcing everyone to play him in the odi wc in 2015, despite Misbah wanting his buddy asad shafiq to play.

Regardless Shahid Afridi is a political piece of @%@%#, Who only cares about his own interests.

However, case in point, if afridi never did oathgate, then someone else would have, you can't have someone like YK captain you in tours.

Thats the sad reality of Pakistan. Pat Cummings is lucky that aussie players are mature. No one likes stark, and before the ban, no one liked Warner, however these 2 are mature enough to not cause drama and listen to their captain.

Not the case with pakistani players.
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Regardless of Yk personality the whole oath thing was beyond ridiculous! How can you have everyone take an oath on the Quran to oust a captain! Genuine grievances should have been conveyed to PCB but to backstab somebody is a betrayal of highest order!
Also, when Shoaib Akhtar and Asif fought on the eve of 2007 T20 WC, Afridi was blamed for that chaos as well. This guy is a proper ahole of Pak cricket!
 
Dirty politics being played by usual suspects.

Stay strong Bobby. You might not be good leader but you tried.

Bobby forever... :inti
 
mominsaigol said:
Steve waugh would have never selected this team to begin with.

This is mostly babar's team.

Only fakhar, Usman Khan, Azam Khan and Abrar are the ones who aren't selected due to babar.

Usman khan was selected for the UAE drama, Azam due to moin Khan's pleas, Abrar due to past pressure from misbah, Hafeez and various other pcb members. Imad and Amir are selected for the same reason, in wc 2024 babar was scrutinized for showcasing ego and taking nawaz, Shadab and Hasan Ali over abrar, Imad and Amir.

Fakhar is their for past odi exploits. He isn't a part of the friends group.

Everyone else is a friend, especially shadab who babar is protecting the most atm.
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I disagree. Pretty much all of these players barring Fakhar performed well in the PSL. And Fakhar is the kind of player who you select anyway because he has that x-factor. So its not like they were selected out of the blue. But their performance in the WC was absolutely shocking. Not being able to score 50 runs across the tournament is quite poor. Even on these pitches.
 
Good leadership is critical. It is an obvious statement. You can get the best out of average players. But i am not sure Pakistan won because of "leadership". They most of the time won with individual brilliance. Pakistan bowling was firing on all cylinders in 2009. They won it.
 
mominsaigol said:
Shan masood doesn't my dude. He ain't a good captain.

Haris, Sarfraz, Saud shakeel are though.
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I think Shan Masood is probably the best and most tactically sharp captain that Pakistan has had in a very long. His captaincy in the Australia series is one of the reasons Pakistan managed to be so competitive. Whether it was the field settings or the usage of bowlers, he was mostly spot-on barring a few errors. And when you look at Azhar Ali and Misbah's blunders in Australia when they were captains, the difference is night and day.

Problem is that Shan Masood is not especially gifted as a batter. He is a very hard worker but he is just not very good. You can stick with him in Tests for some time but he is not a long-term solution.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Good leadership is critical. It is an obvious statement. You can get the best out of average players. But i am not sure Pakistan won because of "leadership". They most of the time won with individual brilliance. Pakistan bowling was firing on all cylinders in 2009. They won it.
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I love Younis but he was too abrasive of a personality to be a good captain. I'm sure there were periods where the team was united under him, because Pakistan did win the T20 WC in 2009 and make the semi-finals of the CT in the same year. But from what I recall, Younis always had run-ins with team members and people from the PCB. Which is not to say that he was at fault, but he was just someone who was very set in his ways, which is an admirable quality but not something you may want from a captain.

I think Bob Woolmer's death affected Younis alot. He was earmarked as the successor to Inzamam long before the 2007 WC. But his attitude changed alot after 2007. And he wasn't always the most approachable guy, eventhough the runs were flowing off his bat.
 
Shahid Afridi maybe my pathan brother but he was part of the problem. He created a lot of politics and divisions in the team. And has started rubbing off on the team again as he has come close to the team.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I love Younis but he was too abrasive of a personality to be a good captain. I'm sure there were periods where the team was united under him, because Pakistan did win the T20 WC in 2009 and make the semi-finals of the CT in the same year. But from what I recall, Younis always had run-ins with team members and people from the PCB. Which is not to say that he was at fault, but he was just someone who was very set in his ways, which is an admirable quality but not something you may want from a captain.

I think Bob Woolmer's death affected Younis alot. He was earmarked as the successor to Inzamam long before the 2007 WC. But his attitude changed alot after 2007. And he wasn't always the most approachable guy, eventhough the runs were flowing off his bat.
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Wasn't there a clash involving Younis, Afridi, Inzamam?
 
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jnaveen1980 said:
I mean inzamam fought on behalf of Afridi if i am right.
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You’re right an incident took place during 2006 series against India in Karachi test. Younis captained that test as Inzamam was banned. Now I don’t remember exactly what happened but there was heated argument.
 
cricketmania22 said:
You’re right an incident took place during 2006 series against India in Karachi test. Younis captained that test as Inzamam was banned. Now I don’t remember exactly what happened but there was heated argument.
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Hard to remember as there were quiet a few dressing room skirmishes. Lot of personality clashes.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Wasn't there a clash involving Younis, Afridi, Inzamam?
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I don't recall there being any issues between Inzi and Younis. Afridi and Younis, that I can believe. But this kind of stuff was all to common stuff for Pakistan during the late 2000's, so it wouldn't surprise me.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I don't recall there being any issues between Inzi and Younis. Afridi and Younis, that I can believe. But this kind of stuff was all to common stuff for Pakistan during the late 2000's, so it wouldn't surprise me.
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Ofcourse Inzi was a much bigger figure. Was not a direct clash. Something related to Afridi.
 
Since it is evident Mr.Afridi is on some agenda and he has a reputation for lobbying and vying sidelining players here we go

Afridi puppet of Wasim Akram henceforth sidelined by Waqar Younis during 2003WC ,

Afridi part of the group who took Oath against YK

Afridi part of the group who led to ouster Moyo only for Afridi to become captain.

Afridi chickened out during the ill-fated Eng tour when the spot fixing saga unfolded.

Afridi as LOI captain kept Yasir Shah on sidelined so his own place is not threatened.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I don't recall there being any issues between Inzi and Younis. Afridi and Younis, that I can believe. But this kind of stuff was all to common stuff for Pakistan during the late 2000's, so it wouldn't surprise me.
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“Younis had told Afridi he would open the innings before the match started but he didn’t give a clear yes. On the first day Younis kept on telling him he should open the innings. Finally when Pakistan were getting ready to bat for four overs at the end of the first day, Afridi told Yasir Hameed in the dressing room to pad up and open,” a local daily reported quoting sources who witnessed the incident.

“This upset Younis and he asked Afridi why he was misbehaving and he was not one to tell Yasir to open the innings. Younis also made it clear to him he will open the innings. At that time Afridi got up and went out to open.

“But after the day’s play ended when Younis was taking a shower, Afridi walked up to him and got into an argument with him, accusing him of being too big for his boots. Afridi then went and complained to Inzamam who came and also confronted Younis,” the sources said.

“Inzamam got very upset with Younis and asked him what he thought of himself and if he thought that he was the captain and boss of the team. Younis told him to his face that while he accepted that he (Inzamam) was captain but until he (Younis) was leading the side he would do it in his own way and he should not try to support Afridi, who was misbehaving with him.”
 
cricketmania22 said:
“Younis had told Afridi he would open the innings before the match started but he didn’t give a clear yes. On the first day Younis kept on telling him he should open the innings. Finally when Pakistan were getting ready to bat for four overs at the end of the first day, Afridi told Yasir Hameed in the dressing room to pad up and open,” a local daily reported quoting sources who witnessed the incident.

“This upset Younis and he asked Afridi why he was misbehaving and he was not one to tell Yasir to open the innings. Younis also made it clear to him he will open the innings. At that time Afridi got up and went out to open.

“But after the day’s play ended when Younis was taking a shower, Afridi walked up to him and got into an argument with him, accusing him of being too big for his boots. Afridi then went and complained to Inzamam who came and also confronted Younis,” the sources said.

“Inzamam got very upset with Younis and asked him what he thought of himself and if he thought that he was the captain and boss of the team. Younis told him to his face that while he accepted that he (Inzamam) was captain but until he (Younis) was leading the side he would do it in his own way and he should not try to support Afridi, who was misbehaving with him.”
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LOL. I had no idea about any of this but again not the slightest bit surprised. Afridi was a master politician which explains why he was able to stick around for so long in such a toxic dressing room. And I completely believe Younis's side of the story in all of this too.
 
Kianig89 said:
Since it is evident Mr.Afridi is on some agenda and he has a reputation for lobbying and vying sidelining players here we go

Afridi puppet of Wasim Akram henceforth sidelined by Waqar Younis during 2003WC ,

Afridi part of the group who took Oath against YK

Afridi part of the group who led to ouster Moyo only for Afridi to become captain.

Afridi chickened out during the ill-fated Eng tour when the spot fixing saga unfolded.

Afridi as LOI captain kept Yasir Shah on sidelined so his own place is not threatened.
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Not to mention his media connections that always kept him relevant. Even after retiring and unretiring about 90 times.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I love Younis but he was too abrasive of a personality to be a good captain. I'm sure there were periods where the team was united under him, because Pakistan did win the T20 WC in 2009 and make the semi-finals of the CT in the same year. But from what I recall, Younis always had run-ins with team members and people from the PCB. Which is not to say that he was at fault, but he was just someone who was very set in his ways, which is an admirable quality but not something you may want from a captain.

I think Bob Woolmer's death affected Younis alot. He was earmarked as the successor to Inzamam long before the 2007 WC. But his attitude changed alot after 2007. And he wasn't always the most approachable guy, eventhough the runs were flowing off his bat.
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Even Bob Woolmer was upset with YKs antics when he resigned as captain in 2006 because SYK made him wait outside his office as he was in a meeting.

Woolmer I believe on record said he had gone out of his way to back YK from 2004 to 2006 and he felt let down by YKs immaturity.
 
cricketmania22 said:
“Younis had told Afridi he would open the innings before the match started but he didn’t give a clear yes. On the first day Younis kept on telling him he should open the innings. Finally when Pakistan were getting ready to bat for four overs at the end of the first day, Afridi told Yasir Hameed in the dressing room to pad up and open,” a local daily reported quoting sources who witnessed the incident.

“This upset Younis and he asked Afridi why he was misbehaving and he was not one to tell Yasir to open the innings. Younis also made it clear to him he will open the innings. At that time Afridi got up and went out to open.

“But after the day’s play ended when Younis was taking a shower, Afridi walked up to him and got into an argument with him, accusing him of being too big for his boots. Afridi then went and complained to Inzamam who came and also confronted Younis,” the sources said.

“Inzamam got very upset with Younis and asked him what he thought of himself and if he thought that he was the captain and boss of the team. Younis told him to his face that while he accepted that he (Inzamam) was captain but until he (Younis) was leading the side he would do it in his own way and he should not try to support Afridi, who was misbehaving with him.”
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Why do these infightings happen mostly among the Pak players? The less said about the Pak team of the 90's, the better. Shane Warne hated Steve Waugh's guts, yet he played alongside him for so many years, and quite a few years with Waugh being the captain. Not once did the team unity or Warne's commitment to his team came into question despite his dislike for Steve Waugh. That's what professionalism is.​
 
Leadership is something I believe is natural. you are born a leader. A good leader cannot be made in labs. It is a natural phenomenon. Obviously you can polish this skill with experience.

What Shahid afridi meant that Babar is a not a good leader because if he was, they would have won the games against INDIA and USA. TBH he is right. Babar has had enough. He needs to let go of it.
 
It was great leadership that gave them they're 92WC but thieve chosen pretty much to wipe that from there history
 
Hitman said:
Why do these infightings happen mostly among the Pak players? The less said about the Pak team of the 90's, the better. Shane Warne hated Steve Waugh's guts, yet he played alongside him for so many years, and quite a few years with Waugh being the captain. Not once did the team unity or Warne's commitment to his team came into question despite his dislike for Steve Waugh. That's what professionalism is.​
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Different cultures.

Seniority and other useless nepotism seems to run thick in Pakistan with players having sense of entitlement after a few yrs in the team.
 
Savak said:
Even Bob Woolmer was upset with YKs antics when he resigned as captain in 2006 because SYK made him wait outside his office as he was in a meeting.

Woolmer I believe on record said he had gone out of his way to back YK from 2004 to 2006 and he felt let down by YKs immaturity.
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Younis was always too abrasive of a personality to become captain. You always got these strange episodes with him. But I think with Woolmer backing him and perhaps a less toxic dressing room, things could have been different. Because Woolmer was one of his biggest supporters. After 2007 though there was no hope. The team was in absolute disarray and the leadership vacuum created by Woolmer's passing and Inzamam's retirement plunged the team into absolute chaos.

This is why I have some sympathy for Malik. Because I feel like his run as captain was always doomed to fail.
 
Hitman said:
Why do these infightings happen mostly among the Pak players? The less said about the Pak team of the 90's, the better. Shane Warne hated Steve Waugh's guts, yet he played alongside him for so many years, and quite a few years with Waugh being the captain. Not once did the team unity or Warne's commitment to his team came into question despite his dislike for Steve Waugh. That's what professionalism is.​
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Hard to say because this seems like something quite specific to Pakistan. Thing is, you can't even put it down to lack of education/grooming because this stuff has been going on since the 1970s and 1980s. When Miandad was made captain in 1980 there was a rebellion against him by the large group of senior players which included guys like Majid Khan, Zaheer Abbas, and even Imran. The Wasim-Waqar rivalry was ugly as hell. When Waqar was named captain for the 2003 World Cup about half the players pledged allegiance to Wasim. And the two weren't even on speaking terms with each other, using Inzamam to communicate probably because he was one of the few players that was on good terms with both of them. Things came to such a point that when Wasim wanted a change in the field, he would shout the instructions to Inzamam in the slips, who in turn would pass the message to Waqar.

The captaincy of the PCT is like that ring from Lord of the Rings. It can bring you immense power, but also destroy you from within.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Hard to say because this seems like something quite specific to Pakistan. Thing is, you can't even put it down to lack of education/grooming because this stuff has been going on since the 1970s and 1980s. When Miandad was made captain in 1980 there was a rebellion against him by the large group of senior players which included guys like Majid Khan, Zaheer Abbas, and even Imran. The Wasim-Waqar rivalry was ugly as hell. When Waqar was named captain for the 2003 World Cup about half the players pledged allegiance to Wasim. And the two weren't even on speaking terms with each other, using Inzamam to communicate probably because he was one of the few players that was on good terms with both of them. Things came to such a point that when Wasim wanted a change in the field, he would shout the instructions to Inzamam in the slips, who in turn would pass the message to Waqar.

The captaincy of the PCT is like that ring from Lord of the Rings. It can bring you immense power, but also destroy you from within.
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Which is also why Kardar, Mushtaq Mohammad, Imran and to a lesser extent, Misbah are in a league of their own. Because the sense of stability that they were able to foster within the team has rarely been seen in Pakistan dressing rooms. When these people were captains, there was no doubt in anyone's mind who was calling the shots. Say what you will about Misbah;'s tactical nous, but he was a strong leader and a mature individual that the players respected. He took over the captaincy at one of the worst periods in Pakistan's cricketing history and made Pakistan into a fairly decent test side that was a force to be reckoned with in the UAE.

Mushtaq Mohammad is one of the most underrated captains in the history of the game for me. His captaincy in the 1978-79 tour of Australia (still our best ever tour of Australia) is the stuff of legends. As a captain he was ahead of his time and the rare combination of someone who was not only great tactically but also an outstanding leader and man manager. And another guy who was badly screwed over by the PCB and controversially removed from captaincy.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Which is also why Kardar, Mushtaq Mohammad, Imran and to a lesser extent, Misbah are in a league of their own. Because the sense of stability that they were able to foster within the team has rarely been seen in Pakistan dressing rooms. When these people were captains, there was no doubt in anyone's mind who was calling the shots. Say what you will about Misbah;'s tactical nous, but he was a strong leader and a mature individual that the players respected. He took over the captaincy at one of the worst periods in Pakistan's cricketing history and made Pakistan into a fairly decent test side that was a force to be reckoned with in the UAE.

Mushtaq Mohammad is one of the most underrated captains in the history of the game for me. His captaincy in the 1978-79 tour of Australia (still our best ever tour of Australia) is the stuff of legends. As a captain he was ahead of his time and the rare combination of someone who was not only great tactically but also an outstanding leader and man manager. And another guy who was badly screwed over by the PCB and controversially removed from captaincy.
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Misbah could have been an atg captain as his field placements, His ability to quickly think and make plans under pressure and strategies especially in test when against Australia he made the key decison to bat again and not let Australia follow on and aussie's were 100% going to go for a draw was key.

Problem with misbah is that hes so nepotistic towards his buddies. Great ceo's and leaders have had to make the tough decison of discarding some of their buddies along the way, yes people call them monsters such as Bill Gates and Steve jobs, but they did what was needed.

In misbah's case, You can't just make your buddies aka rizwan, chacha etc and give them key positions when they never warranted it. Imran farhat and Umar Amin being fast tracked and Umar Amin being made VC when he was just a debutant was criminal.

Same with azhar Ali, dude hasn't even played odi for 4 years and now he's the new leader?

Misbah cannot be considered a great leader if he never let his predjuice aside especially when it came to try to destroy Sarfraz simply because misbah didn't like him as an individual.
 
mominsaigol said:
Misbah could have been an atg captain as his field placements, His ability to quickly think and make plans under pressure and strategies especially in test when against Australia he made the key decison to bat again and not let Australia follow on and aussie's were 100% going to go for a draw was key.

Problem with misbah is that hes so nepotistic towards his buddies. Great ceo's and leaders have had to make the tough decison of discarding some of their buddies along the way, yes people call them monsters such as Bill Gates and Steve jobs, but they did what was needed.

In misbah's case, You can't just make your buddies aka rizwan, chacha etc and give them key positions when they never warranted it. Imran farhat and Umar Amin being fast tracked and Umar Amin being made VC when he was just a debutant was criminal.

Same with azhar Ali, dude hasn't even played odi for 4 years and now he's the new leader?

Misbah cannot be considered a great leader if he never let his predjuice aside especially when it came to try to destroy Sarfraz simply because misbah didn't like him as an individual.
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You are confusing Misbah's coaching career with his stint as captain, which are not the same. Guys like Imran Farhat were not really a big part of the team past 2010, which was before Misbah's stint. And I don't recall Umar Amin ever even playing under Misbah in tests, let alone being made VC.

Misbah backed guys like Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq to the brim and until Misbah was in the team, both were doing brilliantly. Both Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali used to average 45-46 during that time and were the backbone of Pakistan's test batting, along with Younis and Misbah. Azhar Ali had a banner year in 2016 where he was maybe the leading run-scorer in tests for that year and scored a double ton at the MCG and a triple ton in Dubai. Misbah can't be blamed for both guys failing to step up once Misbah and Younis retired.

As for Sarfraz, from what I recall, it was under Misbah's captaincy that Sarfraz came into his own during the 2014 Sri Lanka tour. And from that point on, he became the main wicketkeeper.

Misbah's achievements as captain despite leading a thoroughly mediocre team are nothing to scoff at. He achieved alot with a very limited team.
 
mominsaigol said:
Misbah could have been an atg captain as his field placements, His ability to quickly think and make plans under pressure and strategies especially in test when against Australia he made the key decison to bat again and not let Australia follow on and aussie's were 100% going to go for a draw was key.

Problem with misbah is that hes so nepotistic towards his buddies. Great ceo's and leaders have had to make the tough decison of discarding some of their buddies along the way, yes people call them monsters such as Bill Gates and Steve jobs, but they did what was needed.

In misbah's case, You can't just make your buddies aka rizwan, chacha etc and give them key positions when they never warranted it. Imran farhat and Umar Amin being fast tracked and Umar Amin being made VC when he was just a debutant was criminal.

Same with azhar Ali, dude hasn't even played odi for 4 years and now he's the new leader?

Misbah cannot be considered a great leader if he never let his predjuice aside especially when it came to try to destroy Sarfraz simply because misbah didn't like him as an individual.
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Please give more details about Imran Farhat - what did Misbah fast track him too?

And I dont think Umar Amin was vice captain?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
You are confusing Misbah's coaching career with his stint as captain, which are not the same. Guys like Imran Farhat were not really a big part of the team past 2010, which was before Misbah's stint. And I don't recall Umar Amin ever even playing under Misbah in tests, let alone being made VC.

Misbah backed guys like Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq to the brim and until Misbah was in the team, both were doing brilliantly. Both Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali used to average 45-46 during that time and were the backbone of Pakistan's test batting, along with Younis and Misbah. Azhar Ali had a banner year in 2016 where he was maybe the leading run-scorer in tests for that year. Misbah can't be blamed for both guys failing to step up once Misbah and Younis had moved on.

As for Sarfraz, from what I recall, it was under Misbah's captaincy that Sarfraz came into his own during the 2014 Sri Lanka tour. And from that point on, he became the main wicketkeeper.

Misbah's achievements as captain despite leading a thoroughly mediocre team are nothing to scoff at. He achieved alot with a very limited team.
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UA was made VC for ct 2013 despite being a debutant. Imran farhat was randomly brought back.

As for shafiq, I'm mostly referring to whiteball, He was a failure in whiteball but misbah kept him constantly at 3 knowing full well he's a discount YK, aka good at test and crap at odi, Difference is YK wasn't utterly horrible in Odi like shafiq was and shafiq wasn't exactly scoring triple centuries.

Similarly he didn't let sarfraz play 6 wc games even though sarfi was the highest run scorer and had the highest sr in the Australian odi series in 2014. Deapite this, next series against Sri Lanka, sarfi was randomly discarded to no 7 and then didn't play until wc.

When asked by people as to why, Misbah said jamshed hadn't been given enough chances even though jamshed had been mainspring for 2 years and in 6 games had dropped all his catches and batting wise didn't even score a single double digit score.

Misbah was a genuinely toxic individual and had stubborn views in whiteball.

Also as for test, Misbah inherited a side, he didn't build it. YK, Shafiq, Azhar were in place for years on end, same with most of the bowlers like gul, Saeed ajmal etc.

The biggest weakness of the no 1 test side was the opening of shehzad and hafeez and misbah didn't solve that although granted shehzad wasn't too bad a test player.

Misbah's biggest contributions in test are yasir shah, Sarfraz Ahmed and making the decison to move asad to no 6 which worked extremely well. Otherwise he didn't do much to tinker the combo, if you gave a side like that to any captain, they'd take it to no 1 as well.

Azhar and yk are literally test greats scoring massive 300 scores for pies. Misbah himself is also a good test player though.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Please give more details about Imran Farhat - what did Misbah fast track him too?

And I dont think Umar Amin was vice captain?
Click to expand...
As opener for ct 2013, imran farhat came from random in a series prior to ct 2013 despite never being in contention.

And UA was made vc for ct 2013
 
mominsaigol said:
UA was made VC for ct 2013 despite being a debutant. Imran farhat was randomly brought back.

As for shafiq, I'm mostly referring to whiteball, He was a failure in whiteball but misbah kept him constantly at 3 knowing full well he's a discount YK, aka good at test and crap at odi, Difference is YK wasn't utterly horrible in Odi like shafiq was and shafiq wasn't exactly scoring triple centuries.

Similarly he didn't let sarfraz play 6 wc games even though sarfi was the highest run scorer and had the highest sr in the Australian odi series in 2014. Deapite this, next series against Sri Lanka, sarfi was randomly discarded to no 7 and then didn't play until wc.

When asked by people as to why, Misbah said jamshed hadn't been given enough chances even though jamshed had been mainspring for 2 years and in 6 games had dropped all his catches and batting wise didn't even score a single double digit score.

Misbah was a genuinely toxic individual and had stubborn views in whiteball.

Also as for test, Misbah inherited a side, he didn't build it. YK, Shafiq, Azhar were in place for years on end, same with most of the bowlers like gul, Saeed ajmal etc.

The biggest weakness of the no 1 test side was the opening of shehzad and hafeez and misbah didn't solve that although granted shehzad wasn't too bad a test player.

Misbah's biggest contributions in test are yasir shah, Sarfraz Ahmed and making the decison to move asad to no 6 which worked extremely well. Otherwise he didn't do much to tinker the combo, if you gave a side like that to any captain, they'd take it to no 1 as well.

Azhar and yk are literally test greats scoring massive 300 scores for pies. Misbah himself is also a good test player though.
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Misbah did not inherit the side, he did infact build it. Because three of the most important players from that test side were banned for spot-fixing. Others like Imran Farhat, Yasir Hameed, Umar Akmal, Yousuf, Umar Amin and Kamran Akmal were put to pasture. While Afridi retired.

Azhar Ali had made his debut earlier that year in the series against Australia in England and was hanging onto the side by a thread. He averaged in the 20s during that infamous England tour. Whereas, Asad Shafiq made his test debut under Misbah's captaincy in the UAE. It was Misbah who gave both of them consistent chances and allowed them to establish themselves in the team. Ditto for Yasir Shah and for a short period, Abdul Rehman. Younis and Ajmal were the only two major names that were well-established match-winners from beforehand. And even Younis had been dropped from the side prior to Misbah's tenure because of his disagreements with the incompetent Ijaz Butt regime.

As for the ODI team, yes, it was awful during that period but you also have to understand that Pakistan simply did not have any good limited-overs players during that time. Whatever matches we won, we won because Misbah dragged the team to 200-220 after an early batting collapse by doing a snail-paced anchor job. And then Afridi, Ajmal and Hafeez came in and won us the game in the middle overs. Misbah's batting in ODIs was by no means great, but you also have to take into account the fact that he always used to come in when the team would be in all sorts of trouble and the top order had failed badly.

The idea that Misbah is a toxic individual is not something I agree with whatsoever. I think he might be one of the few mentally mature ex-players. I have never seen or heard him take any low blows at players or say something personal. If anything, he across as a very smart and non-toxic individual when he used to be The Pavilion, as opposed to the toxic Malik who would be sitting right next to him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mominsaigol said:
As opener for ct 2013, imran farhat came from random in a series prior to ct 2013 despite never being in contention.

And UA was made vc for ct 2013
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Farhat was always around the side during that time because of his father in law.

I can't remember Umar Amin being vice captain. He was a good player though, didn't get a fair run imo.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Misbah did not inherit the side, he did infact build it. Because three of the most important players from that test side were banned for spot-fixing. Others like Imran Farhat, Yasir Hameed, Umar Akmal, Yousuf, Umar Amin and Kamran Akmal were put to pasture. While Afridi retired.

Azhar Ali had made his debut earlier that year in the series against Australia in England and was hanging onto the side by a thread. He averaged in the 20s during that infamous England tour. Whereas, Asad Shafiq made his test debut under Misbah's captaincy in the UAE. It was Misbah who gave both of them consistent chances and allowed them to establish themselves in the team. Ditto for Yasir Shah and for a short period, Abdul Rehman. Younis and Ajmal were the only two major names that were well-established match-winners from beforehand. And even Younis had been dropped from the side prior to Misbah's tenure because of his disagreements with the incompetent Ijaz Butt regime.

As for the ODI team, yes, it was awful during that period but you also have to understand that Pakistan simply did not have any good limited-overs players during that time. Whatever matches we won, we won because Misbah dragged the team to 200-220 after an early batting collapse by doing a snail-paced anchor job. And then Afridi, Ajmal and Hafeez came in and won us the game in the middle overs. Misbah's batting in ODIs was by no means great, but you also have to take into account the fact that he always used to come in when the team would be in all sorts of trouble and the top order had failed badly.

The idea that Misbah is a toxic individual is not something I agree with whatsoever. I think he might be one of the few mentally mature ex-players. I have never seen or heard him take any low blows at players or say something personal. If anything, he across as a very smart and non-toxic individual when he used to be The Pavilion, as opposed to the toxic snake Malik who would be sitting right next to him.
Click to expand...
Fair enough for test. But I disagree for odi 100%.

In odi's or t20's Misbah would always play the same batting wise irrespective of the situation. 2011 mohali is one example, In misbah's final t20 game against England, Pakistan were in a winning position but misbah pulled a 2022 asia cup rizwan and lost us that game to the point that Pakistan needed 6 of the last ball.

Misbah was even forced to retire after that game in t20. Its just in odi, because of frequent collapses he's made to look like a hero but an 80 ball 50 was common place for him. His bashing exploits were in test mostly.

And he's 100% toxic. Toxic doesn't mean below the belt per say, yes misbah didn't make below the belt comments but he had various outbursts.

When asked to improve his sr he had a meltdown saying KYA MEIN CHOCKEI NAHI MARTA.

During his coaching stint and even during 2015 wc when asked why he changed the entire structure of the t20 no 1 ranked team which led to losses and a whitewash, he responded with, I am not asking the right handed batters to bat left, and just screamed at the reporter afterwards.

For 2015 he stubbornly refused to play sarfraz constantly saying Jamshed hadn't been given chances. Oh bhai what chances, Jamshed is mainstream for 2 years and it's a world cup, their is no experimentation here unless it's a warmup or early group gake against a minnow.

every interview if Misbah I've seen is sarcastic and toxic beyond belief.

He's a horrible whiteball captain however for test he's a good captain. But it doesn't change the fact that simply having YK alone in your squad gives a huge leap. He didn't exactly have a crapola test squad either with YK, Gul and others in place. But fair enough for giving chances to shafiq and azhar
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Farhat was always around the side during that time because of his father in law.

I can't remember Umar Amin being vice captain. He was a good player though, didn't get a fair run imo.
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Tbf the person who told me Umar Amin was vc of ct 2013 was major. So maybe ask him as he knows. If UA wasn't vc, then I'll take back my claim happily for being wrong.
 
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