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Greatest ODI all-rounder ever?

Mamoon said:
Kapil is arguably the greatest ODI all-rounder of all time.
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Afridi is the l better bat, similar average with kapil remaining notout 20% of inns thus inflating his average, but much higher SR and more impactful performances with much higher MoTM/matche ratio, 100s&50s/matches ratio etc.
Kapil is the better bowler though

Overall, Kapil is nowhere near even Watson, forget Pollock
 
Adijazz1706 said:
Afridi is the l better bat, similar average with kapil remaining notout 20% of inns thus inflating his average, but much higher SR and more impactful performances with much higher MoTM/matche ratio, 100s&50s/matches ratio etc.
Kapil is the better bowler though

Overall, Kapil is nowhere near even Watson, forget Pollock
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Kapil nowhere near Watson?

Ok. Lol.
 
Lol..

It is a very valid claim to make that Kapil is the greatest ODI all-rounder of all-time. He was definitely the best ODI all-rounder among the quartet although the last in tests. Sometimes you can leave your stats.
 
Both Razzaq and Afridi were good. Hopefully Faheem and Shadab will surpass them and win us the '19 Insha'Allah.

GOAT? I'd say IK. Elite bowler and delivered with bat.
Wasim Akram was also a handy AR.
Sanath Jayasuriya? SRT?

PS: Shouldn't Kohli bowl some overs as well, can't suck more than Pandya and BK :yk
 
Lol! For Indians when its Tendulkar its all about stats and even when someone points out the Sangakarra had better avg in tests by some distance than there is some other excuse.

Now for Kapil Indians fans say it isnt about stats its about impact.

In that case Afridi had more impact on his day than Kapil. He also have more man of the matches than Kapil.

Now waiting for another excuse for Kapil to be the best all rounder in ODIs. :afridi1
 
Also if Kapil's avg of 23 makes him a great all rounder than why not Wasim with batting avg of 16.5 SR of 88 and almost same runs as Kapil along with more than 500 wickets. :yk2
 
Syed1 said:
Klusener was a butcher with the bat in that WC. Absolutely gun... but his bowling was more of stop gap tbh. Imran, Kapil and Kallis were all better bowlers than him.
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I think klusener took his first 100 odi wickets in 70 matches. Thats faster than even many proper bowlers (i guess faster than Marshal & Imran). He was a proper bowler.
 
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The_Odd_One said:
The problem with Dev was that he was never the top bowler or top batsman. His batting average was like 23. Now, before anyone brings his SR into discussion. An average of 23 is still very poor no matter if he batted at almost 100 SR. Afridi has even higher SR at similar average and we all know what a liability he was most of the time.

There has never been a standout ODI all-rounder. I will pick among Kallis, Pollock, Klusener, and Watson.
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Thats because Afridi played 140+ matches as an opener. Kapil played most of his matches at 7th position. Afridi should have averaged more.
 
Kapil, Klusener & Chris cairns. Cairns won New zealand champions trophy/Mini world cup in the year 2000 where he scored century against india in finals that too under pressure. Probably greatest knock for any AR along with Kapil's 175 and Symonds' 143.
 
Titan24 said:
Lol! For Indians when its Tendulkar its all about stats and even when someone points out the Sangakarra had better avg in tests by some distance than there is some other excuse.

Now for Kapil Indians fans say it isnt about stats its about impact.

In that case Afridi had more impact on his day than Kapil. He also have more man of the matches than Kapil.

Now waiting for another excuse for Kapil to be the best all rounder in ODIs. :afridi1
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Just like Mcgrath has better strike rate, average, more success in WC still pakistani claim Akram as greatest Odi bowler as he played much more Odis than Mcgrath
 
Scot styris too deserves a mention
Odis
Bat- 161 innings, 4483 runs, 4 centuries, 28 half centuries
(Also had 5 centuries in 29 tests)

Bowl- 161 innings 137 wickets
 
Easy.

Jacques Kallis.

Just close your eyes and imagine him playing for India or Pakistan. How much would he have been valued?

Great batsman, a very good bowler and Top class slip catcher.
 
Flintoff for me. Avg of 24 in bowling and 32 with batting & really good fielder as well. More than that pure entertainer among all these.
 
Titan24 said:
With the batting average of 23 and 1 century?
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Adijazz1706 said:
Afridi is the l better bat, similar average with kapil remaining notout 20% of inns thus inflating his average, but much higher SR and more impactful performances with much higher MoTM/matche ratio, 100s&50s/matches ratio etc.
Kapil is the better bowler though

Overall, Kapil is nowhere near even Watson, forget Pollock
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Kapil had a SR of 95 in an era where a SR of 65 was considered very good. Moreover, he was a brilliant fielder and was the top ranked ODI all-rounder for a decade, ahead of other ATG all-rounders like Botham and Imran.

Certainly the strongest contender for the GOAT ODI all-rounder tag.
 
Javed Miandad is considered an aggressive batsman str rate-67.
Then think what a monster kapil was str rate-95.
 
Mamoon said:
Kapil had a SR of 95 in an era where a SR of 65 was considered very good. Moreover, he was a brilliant fielder and was the top ranked ODI all-rounder for a decade, ahead of other ATG all-rounders like Botham and Imran.

Certainly the strongest contender for the GOAT ODI all-rounder tag.
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High SR was not useful in that era. That's why very successful ODI batsmen like Miandad, Greenidge, etc. had lower strike rates.

The only reason Kapil was rated #1 was because he played the most number of games as an all-rounder. Imran a lot of times just played as a batsman.
 
Kapil Dev.

jeeteshssaxena said:
Javed Miandad is considered an aggressive batsman str rate-67.
Then think what a monster kapil was str rate-95.
Click to expand...

now imagine Viv Richards with his average 47/SR 90 and Zaheer Abbas 47/SR 85, the latter hitting, at one point, three consecutive 100s @ SR 120-130 vs India.
 
The_Odd_One said:
High SR was not useful in that era. That's why very successful ODI batsmen like Miandad, Greenidge, etc. had lower strike rates.

The only reason Kapil was rated #1 was because he played the most number of games as an all-rounder. Imran a lot of times just played as a batsman.
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Main reason - IK was expensive against the most dominant team of his time. You get lots of point for being good against the topmost team.

IK went over 4.3 runs per over against WI and that was very expensive in that era. With that kind of ER, it's hard to accumulate too many points to climb up in ranking.
 
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Buffet said:
Main reason - IK was expensive against the most dominant team of his time. You get lots of point for being good against the topmost team.

IK went over 4.3 runs per over against WI and that was very expensive in that era. With that kind of ER, it's hard to accumulate too many points to climb up in ranking.
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I do not see a big difference in the performance against WI. Kapil took 43 wickets in 42 innings as compared to Imran's 54 in 45. ER was not a big deal in that era otherwise Marshall would have been considered a top ODI bowler.
 
Kapil is the greatest odi all rounder of all time whether some people like it all not.
 
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The_Odd_One said:
ER was not a big deal in that era otherwise Marshall would have been considered a top ODI bowler.
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Discussion was about ranking in ODI format and ER plays a big part in that. Rankings are calculated the same way in all eras for all players. Marshall is arguably the best test bowler in history and same can't be said about him in the ODI format, but he was still one of the top ODI bowler of his era.
 
From those I've seen, Jayasuriya was very underrated as an all-rounder. He had stopped bowling when he became captain and I always think thought that was a mistake. But after relinquishing his captaincy he resumed bowling again and he was still effective. Kallis was not that effective in odis and klusener by 2000 was bowling harmless medium pace cutters. Cairns had immense potential but injuries reduced his bowling . Many declined in one of their skillsets over the years(Symonds,Gayle,razzaq, etc.) but sanath was a beastly batsman and effective fifth bowler right till the end so I'd rate him the highest.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
From those I've seen, Jayasuriya was very underrated as an all-rounder. He had stopped bowling when he became captain and I always think thought that was a mistake. But after relinquishing his captaincy he resumed bowling again and he was still effective. Kallis was not that effective in odis and klusener by 2000 was bowling harmless medium pace cutters. Cairns had immense potential but injuries reduced his bowling . Many declined in one of their skillsets over the years(Symonds,Gayle,razzaq, etc.) but sanath was a beastly batsman and effective fifth bowler right till the end so I'd rate him the highest.
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I often select him in my all time ODI XI.
 
Buffet said:
Discussion was about ranking in ODI format and ER plays a big part in that. Rankings are calculated the same way in all eras for all players. Marshall is arguably the best test bowler in history and same can't be said about him in the ODI format, but he was still one of the top ODI bowler of his era.
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So, it basically means that all-rounder ranking in that era of ODIs should not be given so much weight.
 
Even if you are a Pakistani, Kapil's name probably pops up first through subconscious when thinking about great ODI all rounders.
 
I would have went with Klusenar if SA had won 1999 WC. A trophy does make a difference when it comes down to who is the greatest ever in a particular department.

Anyways, that would be top 3.
 
Just look at this thread. Kapil Dev is everywhere. Just goes to show whether you like it or hate it he's just right up there.

If you're not good enough you just dont dominate discussions like that. You'd never see Sangakkara, Kallis dominate a discussion on GOAT batsmen you will see Tendulkar, Lara, Richards everywhere in such threads.

Imran is always among the discussion when you talk about great test all rounders, not nearly as much in ODIs. There has to be a fair reason, its not all random or hate from India.
 
The_Odd_One said:
So, it basically means that all-rounder ranking in that era of ODIs should not be given so much weight.
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It's up to to you to ignore objective raking in previous era or even in current era. Many do that and it's perfectly fine.
 
Ab Fan said:
I would have went with Klusenar if SA had won 1999 WC. A trophy does make a difference when it comes down to who is the greatest ever in a particular department.

Anyways, that would be top 3.
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He had declined a lot as a bowler by the time he became a legendary smashing machine. Also small peak. Kapil had an illustrious career.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
He had declined a lot as a bowler by the time he became a legendary smashing machine. Also small peak. Kapil had an illustrious career.
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Yes, short peak and short career but he was genuinely as good with both bat and bowl. Just look the way he dominated the WC 1999.

He was comparable as a finisher to Bevan in terms of closing games and could bat faster than him and then he would come up and bowl, in which he was lot better than Kallis.
 
Gary Sobers and Imran Khan. I would say IK shades it due to his leadership ability. If you ask great all rounders themselves who mostly played in the 1970's and 1980's they would say Imran Khan. As boring as I find him Jacque Kallis would also have to be considered. Many polls have taken place on this subject by various Cricket websites which Kapil Dev or Botham have never topped. Richard Hadlee a great all rounder himself considers IK as being the greatest of them all.

[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION] I don't see your Kapil Dev mentioned to much on this site at all.
 
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