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Match winning knock given the conditions
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Haris Sohail's 147 off 421 balls. What purpose has this knock served for Pakistan?
- Thread starter Rana
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topspin
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Believe me Rana, you have valid concerns which I also share. I wouldn't pay much notice towards hype squad who want to give everyone a false sense of security and that everything is rosy when it really isn't.
No one is asking for Haris Sohail to be dropped, he's a quality player but in future he cannot repeat these 70s/80s style innings because it simply isn't sustainable. If you bat this slowly (particularly outside UAE), you're just allowing the pressure to accumulate and merely transferring all the momentum to the bowlers.
Bat like this in SA and it will be a roasting. This will get bumped but the vicious cycle will continue.
Abdullah719
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Why should he bat like this overseas on much better and faster pitches when it doesn't fit in with his general style of batting?
This innings was an anomaly, but it shows he has the temperament and ability to play long innings which was the only worry with Haris so far (not really a worry, knew he would come through but some were worried
). Everyone knows he is capable of playing much faster.
topspin
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Why should he bat like this overseas on much better and faster pitches when it doesn't fit in with his general style of batting?
This innings was an anomaly, but it shows he has the temperament and ability to play long innings which was the only worry with Haris so far (not really a worry, knew he would come through but some were worried
I trust Haris to bat more briskly in SA, but the likes of Azhar, Imam and even Shafiq (when he's bottling it) etc? - not so much.
My point is we should have our heads over the clouds and get complacent with this batting style like some posters are here because it will haunt us 8 times out of 10 especially away from home against top 5 sides.
If the message from Mickey turns out to be after the test: "same again boys" in future tests then this approach could end up being a curse in disguise. It's important that the team learns from this.
In this test so far I give spin bowling 9 or 10 out of 10 - couldn't really ask for more. Batting is 5 or a 6 if I'm feeling generous.
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topspin
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should not have our*
chacha kashmiri
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Harris place in the history books will be sealed if Pakistan win from here
Seriously underrated knock, pakistanis underbelly and long tail would have been exposed had Harris not stayed as long as he did in his partnership with Azam and Ali
Seriously underrated knock, pakistanis underbelly and long tail would have been exposed had Harris not stayed as long as he did in his partnership with Azam and Ali
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It was not just slow but quite slow for my liking but knowing Haris, his class & his range of strokes, and that he is not a selfish batsman i am sure it was a part of management's plan.
But I am really happy that like domestics he has started to play big knocks here. Will be our most important bat in SA.
But I am really happy that like domestics he has started to play big knocks here. Will be our most important bat in SA.
reversehook
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Only if i were Harris Sohail, and I had the opportunity to read this thread, GIGGLES...
yes, it was on the slow side, but thats what we needed, this test will be over in the fourth day... and if he didnt had that marathon innings, we would have probably lost this test in 3-4 days...
if he continues to muster out innings of this nature, still no harm done, as long as he puts 100+ on board he can take 10 days if he wants... only time it will be an issue is if we are in 4th innings and need to score at a rate of 4-6 per over with lots of wkts in hand and/or only 4-5 overs left, and he tuk tuks to a draw... sure, go at him...
yes, it was on the slow side, but thats what we needed, this test will be over in the fourth day... and if he didnt had that marathon innings, we would have probably lost this test in 3-4 days...
if he continues to muster out innings of this nature, still no harm done, as long as he puts 100+ on board he can take 10 days if he wants... only time it will be an issue is if we are in 4th innings and need to score at a rate of 4-6 per over with lots of wkts in hand and/or only 4-5 overs left, and he tuk tuks to a draw... sure, go at him...
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Think you may want to revise views
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some criticised Haris Sohail's innings. This is what Ross Taylor said yesterday "If we can just get through a couple of sessions with the least amount of damage, we know it can be done. The way Babar & Sohail batted, they showed the way for us to bat long periods of time" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PAKvNZ?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PAKvNZ</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1067402046402375681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Rana
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So Ross Taylor hypocritically didn’t apply Harris Sohail’s approach at the crease? Taylor nai keh diya hai tou baat hi khatam.
as-95
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Agreed. Good innings from Haris! Some of the wrist slitters here think they are more knowlegable than professional cricketers though
Madplayer
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Rana ji, you are a good poster. let it go now. Haris' innings has proved to be match winning. Surely he was asked to bat like this otherwise during the lunch breaks and tea breaks, the coach would have asked him to play quicker. He ALWAYS plays much quicker than this and you know it. Surely this was a role given to him by the management and he went against his own instinct by playing so slow. They probably wanted to tire out the pitch as much as they can before kiwis could bat.
Result of the match may show that it was a “great knock” “spending time at crease” and so on...If its not for yasir’s magical spell and NZ crawled their way back same posters would have been after the same knock. Point is this approach may not work at other venues. Coming series will show how these two change their approach to the innings in different situations.
Some saying this pair is the “best in the world” too. Its too early to label players good or bad. Give them 10-12 innings and see how they do.
Some saying this pair is the “best in the world” too. Its too early to label players good or bad. Give them 10-12 innings and see how they do.
Rana
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Well I hope this was the last time the management went back down this route of making our batsman bat all day for 180-200 runs
I would much rather we lose but play the game in the right away and the correct approach as applied by all the top teams instead of resorting to this approach. Misbah injected a decade of lethargic cricket into our batting because the “rehabilitation” process outstayed its required time. When teams around the world kicked on, it was Pakistan who were too late to get off the mark and ti this day they are suffering.
My only concern is that Harris Sohail, who is a young Test cricketer and is working so hard to establish himself as a regular selection for Pakistan, will he know think that his way to move forward and produce enough is through this sluggish approach? It worked for Misbah and he was never dropped ever since he became the captain who could score runs
I said if they do which they didn't the capitulation in the first innings sealed their fate otherwise a better score like 250 300 would've meant a draw was more likely due to good bowling from Yasir the slow innings wasn't made to look bad in anyway.
Finisher
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And the conclusion of both teams 1st innings Haris was 57 runs ahead of the New Zealanders.
Shafiq played a attacking innings. Didn't do much for the teams Cause
Shafiq played a attacking innings. Didn't do much for the teams Cause
Madplayer
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I agree that this approach isnt ideal. The point i was making is that this was surely a team plan rather than Haris being selfish or anything.
Your points beg a question :
This approach isnt ideal generally but is this approach the most ideal for UAE? Misbah's team achieved a monumental record in UAE using such tactics. Sarfaraz came and tried to bring more aggressiveness in UAE but it backfired and some losses were seen. But now as they revived Misbah's tactics the team won pretty easily.
If this is the most ideal strategy in UAE, then Pakistan should do everything it takes to get the heck out of there and find a new home.
Braveheart
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When a team wins all their sins are swept under the carpet.
Haris Sohail fans and supporters will reassure this was the right thing to do in that situation because we won.
The fact is, it was WAY too slow and could have led to a draw if things played out differently. Such a slow innings is criminal in this day in age and he's lucky Yasir Shah was in supreme form. Haris Sohail is in my opinion an overrated player and he's yet to impress if you ask me.
Haris Sohail fans and supporters will reassure this was the right thing to do in that situation because we won.
The fact is, it was WAY too slow and could have led to a draw if things played out differently. Such a slow innings is criminal in this day in age and he's lucky Yasir Shah was in supreme form. Haris Sohail is in my opinion an overrated player and he's yet to impress if you ask me.
Rana
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If the biggest Issue is the UAE wickets then Mickey and his management must raise this concern with the PCB and the ICC to improve the quality of tracks in the UAE otherwise continue with this habit of producing below par international batting. The problem really isnt the wickets in my opinion, how do these same Pakistani batsmen struggle to score 350+ on tracks where England score that as their average score in ODIs? How did England manage to still produce modern international batting in ODI cricket on the same tracks? How does Pakistan score 280-2 or 3 on these same tracks against West Indies and Sri Lanka?
For me the issue is simple. These batsmen generally are very laid back and complacent and would rather not push themselves to match international standards. They find it so much easier to just hang in there and play themselves in, and a bit too casually in Tests. At least this was proven by one players approach
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[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] Are you man enough to submit a public apology letter after your falsehood was proven ? Or do I think too highly of you 
I think it's just the way the pitch is set up. If you bat first and score a huge total, then the spin will start coming in later in the match-and with two spinners it will cause huge problems, especially with how tight Abbas and Ali keep it. Ali had a good match too.
Rana
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[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] Are you man enough to submit a public apology letter after your falsehood was proven ? Or do I think too highly of you
My point stands dude, I would break my TV if i have to watch another torturous innings of 147 off 421 deliveries in my life. That too when there is no second/fourth innings scoreboard pressure. That too when you are chasing a series 1-0 down. That too when you won the toss and elected to bat first of a flat track.
Do you remember England's response in the 2nd Test against Australia in Edgebaston 2005? That is what I call a response! Thats how you take the bull by the horns! This is what Test cricket needs. Compare that to 147 off 421 balls, sorry but no, just no!
shaz619
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From an entertainment POV yep it was dull, but am sure you made points regarding how it would deprive us of victory potentially
a little more impetus is fine but attritional cricket is the perfect approach in the UAE and Sohail performed exceptionally 
Comparing run rates on fast scoring wickets of England to UAE sums up your cricketing knowledge.
Rana
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I welcome attacks on my intellect on a daily bases. Thankyou, come again!
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This. We should get out of UAE as soon as possible.
Was it the most fluent innings? No
Was it the easiest wicket to bat on? No
Was it Haris Sohail at his best? No
Could Haris have taken more risks? Yes, but then if he got out he would have got slated.
Did Haris' innings allow Pakistan to build up a big total in the 1st innings and put pressure on NZ? Yes
Was Haris' innings one of the reasons why Pakistan won the 2nd Test? Yes
Job done !
Was it the easiest wicket to bat on? No
Was it Haris Sohail at his best? No
Could Haris have taken more risks? Yes, but then if he got out he would have got slated.
Did Haris' innings allow Pakistan to build up a big total in the 1st innings and put pressure on NZ? Yes
Was Haris' innings one of the reasons why Pakistan won the 2nd Test? Yes
Job done !
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Rana
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I agree with all points except the last one respectfully. Harris could be considered 10% of the reason why Pakistan won. Babar and Azhar could add another 20% but 70-85% of the reason was the phenomenal spell by Yasir Shah. Therefore Harris remains at 10% or even below unless he prophecised that he shall set the platform for Yasir Shah to deliver the killer blow
gazza619
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I have said this before in this thread, and I am saying it again. Our batsmen played poorly on day 1 and 2.
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If anything, this display proves that playing in the UAE renders even our better attacking batsmen to the turgid, soul-destroying batting performances associated with the place.
Without the weight of those solid runs Yasir would not had the advantage of scoreboard pressure to attack . Had Haris played faster he could have easily perished before or after his century. So insstruction for him was to dig in since he was settled , others were trying to play faster but pitch and ground was not too kind to them.
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To be honest I thought Rana would understand the tactical side of Haris' performance.
In footballing terms, take yourself back to Inter Milan when they won the CL under Mourinho. At times they used 3 defenders at the back. Someone like Rana would say "Why use 3 defenders, when the whole purpose is to defend and use 4 defenders at the back." But you see that's what football is all about. Unorthodox tactics that you don't usually see. Another example is: Walcott playing as a RW when in reality, at times he would switch to playing upfront. Again someone like Rana would say, why not just play him upfront?
However with Haris' approach, nothing was abnormal or unorthodox at all. Firstly, test cricket is KNOWN for surviving on the pitch, test cricket is KNOWN for patience, TEST cricket is KNOWN for the understanding and reading the game and then using that to scoring big, which Haris exactly did. You know what was really impressive about Haris' approach? He actually re-adapted to the tactical side of the game plan and restricted himself to playing strokes which often led to him losing his wicket in previous innings - he learned and adapted.
Had Haris not scored the 100+ then today NZ would have been bowled out with a potential LEAD. Such contribution from Haris stopped NZ from having a lead as we had a total on board. Without Haris' occupation on the pitch, his running between the wickets causing the rough marks to further deteriorate on the pitch supported Yasir Shah's bowling. Haris' composure on the pitch almost meant Babar was allowed to ease in and get his 100. Haris' composure allowed Azhar to put crucial runs on the board.
I'm sorry, I know Modern cricket has affected many but please let test cricket stay as test cricket. The fact he faced more delivered in three digits than the actual score he obtained in 3 digits was very pleasing to see on the scorecard. Haris played an important innings, match winning and a fine tactical performance. He showed grit, determination, adaption and composure.
In footballing terms, take yourself back to Inter Milan when they won the CL under Mourinho. At times they used 3 defenders at the back. Someone like Rana would say "Why use 3 defenders, when the whole purpose is to defend and use 4 defenders at the back." But you see that's what football is all about. Unorthodox tactics that you don't usually see. Another example is: Walcott playing as a RW when in reality, at times he would switch to playing upfront. Again someone like Rana would say, why not just play him upfront?
However with Haris' approach, nothing was abnormal or unorthodox at all. Firstly, test cricket is KNOWN for surviving on the pitch, test cricket is KNOWN for patience, TEST cricket is KNOWN for the understanding and reading the game and then using that to scoring big, which Haris exactly did. You know what was really impressive about Haris' approach? He actually re-adapted to the tactical side of the game plan and restricted himself to playing strokes which often led to him losing his wicket in previous innings - he learned and adapted.
Had Haris not scored the 100+ then today NZ would have been bowled out with a potential LEAD. Such contribution from Haris stopped NZ from having a lead as we had a total on board. Without Haris' occupation on the pitch, his running between the wickets causing the rough marks to further deteriorate on the pitch supported Yasir Shah's bowling. Haris' composure on the pitch almost meant Babar was allowed to ease in and get his 100. Haris' composure allowed Azhar to put crucial runs on the board.
I'm sorry, I know Modern cricket has affected many but please let test cricket stay as test cricket. The fact he faced more delivered in three digits than the actual score he obtained in 3 digits was very pleasing to see on the scorecard. Haris played an important innings, match winning and a fine tactical performance. He showed grit, determination, adaption and composure.
Rana
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Your making some Pharcical assumptions about me and what I would say when it comes to tactics. No, I do not commend an effort of 147 off 421 balls at home on day 1/2 after winning the toss and batting first. It has nothing to do with the name of the player either. If this was Ahmad Shahzad or Hafeez who played this innings, no one on PP would give them the benefit of the doubt as so many of Harris Sohail’s fans have done so for him.
Someone like Theo sees how Mourinho’s out of the box tactics were affective after they are successful. Someone like me sees something not making sense and will call it out to the very end.
I wrote it in this forum, I would rather lose playing the game in the correct way than win playing it like a coward would. I believe Pakistan’s batting problems have nothing to do with the pitch or the lack of quality players but it’s simply because they themselves are too comfortable not raising their game upto that standard.
If Sohail sets a precedent from now on, Pakistan will lose its few hundred fans it has left around the world who tune in to watch Test cricket in the UAE.
The Googly
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Mind boggling analysis by some fans. This was a slow wicket on which scoring fast was not easy. The kiwis didn’t exactly race along. It was a match winning innings. Some people are simply never satisfied. It reminds me of a famous quote by ex US president, Lyndon Johnson : “If I walked across the river, my critics would accuse me of not being able to swim”.
Haris won the match. It was the innings required for the situation.
Haris won the match. It was the innings required for the situation.
Ab Fan
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To OP's credit, he actually made some good points. But at the end, you gotta give credit to Haris for playing this inning. No doubt he should have upped his game, particularly after he got his 100 on second day as there wasn't much pressure after that and Pak should have surely gone for 500 total and then declare.
Yasir being just too good doesn't changes that fact but either way, the good thing for Haris and Pak is that a 147 by Haris will surely give him a lot of confidence. So, well done.
Yasir being just too good doesn't changes that fact but either way, the good thing for Haris and Pak is that a 147 by Haris will surely give him a lot of confidence. So, well done.
Amjid Javed
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How exactly was that a difficult wicket to bat on during 1st two days? The fact 1 wicket fell on day 2 but its a difficult wicket?
Am actually shocked on your comments.
Where have I said difficult wicket?
It was however difficult to score quickly and to bat with total fluency.
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QuickCrick
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Are you a critic or fan?
I joined this site because I thought it is a fan forum and what I am finding is quite the opposite. There are only a handful of posters with positive content, most seem intent on posting ** to divide opinion.
If you are a fan, then be happy we won the game! Haris was given a role which he executed to near perfection. Look at the bigger picture, in the future if we need to bat to save a test then the team and us fans will have this fallback on and maybe just maybe we can do something similar to what khawaja and Australia did to us..
Yes Yasir was brilliant but he was also part of the same game plan, if haris didnt bat time would Yasir even come into the equation? Yasir overperfomed which meant we could enforce the follow on but even without that spell I think there would have been enough time for us to win, just look at when the game finished and how many sessions/overs were left...
Also a little shocked about the comments you made about not watching us play if we use these tactics again... Well this is test cricket and if you cant handle it then instead of criticising just follow ODI/T20 or another team that you can bare to watch because in truth we dont need fans like you.
[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]
I joined this site because I thought it is a fan forum and what I am finding is quite the opposite. There are only a handful of posters with positive content, most seem intent on posting ** to divide opinion.
If you are a fan, then be happy we won the game! Haris was given a role which he executed to near perfection. Look at the bigger picture, in the future if we need to bat to save a test then the team and us fans will have this fallback on and maybe just maybe we can do something similar to what khawaja and Australia did to us..
Yes Yasir was brilliant but he was also part of the same game plan, if haris didnt bat time would Yasir even come into the equation? Yasir overperfomed which meant we could enforce the follow on but even without that spell I think there would have been enough time for us to win, just look at when the game finished and how many sessions/overs were left...
Also a little shocked about the comments you made about not watching us play if we use these tactics again... Well this is test cricket and if you cant handle it then instead of criticising just follow ODI/T20 or another team that you can bare to watch because in truth we dont need fans like you.
[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]
Rana
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Thanks. I hope people notice this emotional post and you are nominated for a POTW award at the expense of accusing me of causing divide amongst fans and giving up on Test cricket to watch T20s and ODIs.
gazza619
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I see where you are coming from but a win can often hide the flaws in the team. The pitch was an absolute batting paradise on day 1 and 2, the kiwi bowling attack had no demons in them, our batsmen could have easily scored 500 plus. They lacked intent which is needed to put the bad balls away. Even after Haris got out we continued with the same slow lame batting approach leading up to declaration which is mind boggling.
The Googly
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Maybe they were haunted by the humbling collapse in the 1st test and were determined to take no risks? I think it was a brave declaration. Yes they could have batted quicker. But it was a slow wicket and priority one was a score over 400. The best way to get this was to dig in and take no risks. Good old fashioned test match batting. The match is over with a day and a half to spare. What is there to complain about? For me, it is just the team selection. Fakhar and Gohar for Hafeez abd Bilal but it won’t happen.
QuickCrick
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Everyone here knows how flakey our batting is, it’s not a secret. If the teams has come up with a strategy to counter that, a strategy that worked then why are we still complaining? Ok I take back that it was near perfection and agree that they should have up’d the anti but if after all that hard work he got out playing an aggressive strike then the plan wouldn’t have come into fruition and everyone would then be talking about that.
It just seems however we perform it’s a lose lose situation!
gazza619
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The only issue was that we made our bowlers work really hard again. I feel like our bowlers should get double wages. Yasir and Co had to work a lot on Day 4 to make sure it was an innings defeat for NZ.
Lets say if Pakistan had another 100 runs to play with, we could have given more overs to Hafeez and Haris in between and Yasir Shah would have had more rest. He bowled 45 overs in the 2nd innings which is a lot.
A higher lead may have also added more pressure on kiwi batsmen. I feel like New Zealand was still the game when they were 255/4 after follow on.
topspin
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Think of this logically even though he was batting very conservatively it can backfire and a become an even bigger risk itself.
What I mean is what is the probability you will last 421 balls? - even if you bat as sedately as Haris has done it is ridiculously low chance - which we can quantify when he finishes his test career.
On this occasion it worked and the runs were suffice on a dead wicket courtesy of Yasir's heroics. But to actually bank on playing in this manner going forward and expect the same result wherever it may be or whether it be just for UAE tests is quite frankly counter-productive, irrational and therefore stupid.
What I mean is what is the probability you will last 421 balls? - even if you bat as sedately as Haris has done it is ridiculously low chance - which we can quantify when he finishes his test career.
On this occasion it worked and the runs were suffice on a dead wicket courtesy of Yasir's heroics. But to actually bank on playing in this manner going forward and expect the same result wherever it may be or whether it be just for UAE tests is quite frankly counter-productive, irrational and therefore stupid.
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CricketDon
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Grab a spoon. Humble pie is served. Your personal waiter is Haris Sohail.
saying they played poorly is harsh. I would say they were average, especially on Day 1. there were improvements on day 2, but then again the platform had already been set
To be really frank, New Zealand were done in by a brilliant spell. They showed lots of fight and resolve in the second innings. Pakistan is not out of the woods yet. If New Zealand bat like they did in the second innings, Pakistan batting will crumble once again. This was a brilliant win but New Zealand are not out of the series. This sort of batting can seriously damage Pakistan's chances in SA later this year as run scoring will be incredibly difficult and if you don't so intent you might get bowled out under 150 more often than not.
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excellent batting. Looks like the team has figured out how to win effectively in the UAE.
Doesn't matter if it is not pretty, if it gets the win then I am all for it.
People complain about wrestlers in the UFC because they are boring, yet it is the most effective martial art of the lot and most of the champions come from a wresting background.
Doesn't matter if it is not pretty, if it gets the win then I am all for it.
People complain about wrestlers in the UFC because they are boring, yet it is the most effective martial art of the lot and most of the champions come from a wresting background.
Scoring 190/200 in a days play unless you have lost a session to rain is not on. This kind of cricket died after the 60s.
Just shows pak players insecurity, you have to put bat on ball keep the r/r at least 3 an over.
Otherwise the 20 people that turn up in the uae won’t bother!!
Just shows pak players insecurity, you have to put bat on ball keep the r/r at least 3 an over.
Otherwise the 20 people that turn up in the uae won’t bother!!
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