Has Babar Azam established himself as the best No. 3 in the world in ODIs since 2015?

[MHN1293]

Has Babar Azam estabilished himself as the best no.3 in world cricket since his debut bar kohli. If u just look at the stats he has played 59 innings scoring 3030 runs at nealry 63 and 12 hundreds. For comparison root averages 54 with 11 hundreds in 80 innings and williamson averages 50 with 11 tons in nearly 110 innings. Most of this has been built up away from home. Even kohli averages similar, 63 that is but not to undermine the 30+ hundreds he has got in the position.

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes, he is the best no.3 in ODIs since 2015 bar Kohli.

Faf, Root and Williamson are below him since that time period. Smith is below all three of them.

 

[Mesozoic]

Since Babar's ODI debut (2015)...

Against Top 5 ODI teams (Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ and SAF)

VIRAT KOHLI

Matches - 58
Average - 68
100s - 13

JOE ROOT

Matches - 47
Average - 52
100s - 7

KANE WILLIAMSON

Matches - 47
Average - 45
100s - 5

BABAR AZAM

Matches - 45
Average - 45
100s - 3

Is Babar Azam the best no.3 in the world in odis since 2015

NO

 

[Mesozoic]

And there's FAF too averaging 54 and having scored 5 hundreds in just 34 games against top sides while playing a lot of games at no.3.

 

[Mamoon]

No.

 

[kingusama92]

No.

That's a huge chunk of Kohli's prime.

To put it into perspective for you.

Since 2015

Babar's Overall record - 77 ODIs, 12 100s, 16 50s
Kohli's Record (Only When Chasing) - 55 ODIs, 12 100s, 11 50s.

That's how big the gap is and that's not Babar's fault. You're comparing different phases of their careers.

 

[Rajdeep]

No. Kohli was a beast from 2015-2019.

Babar has potential to rule next 5 years though.

 

[Mobashir]

Ne he isn't. Not done well enough against good team till 2018. Kohli is the best.

But on current form, no one is better than Babar Azam in ODI's.
Even in tests, bar, Smith and Stokes, no one is better than him.

 

[Rana]

Kohli, Root and Smith should not even be in this discussion!

They are all surrounded by superstar batsmen who make their role at number 3 so much more easier in comparison to Babar who has nobody besides Harris Sohail (who is injury prone)

In that context, Yes Babar is the best no.3 in ODIs since then

 

[MHN1293]

Btw i clearly asked best no.3 bar kohli or besides kohli so answers keeping that in mind would be appreciated.

 

[Rana]

Btw i clearly asked best no.3 bar kohli or besides kohli so answers keeping that in mind would be appreciated.

Even with Kohli, how can you fault the man for not having openers like Dhawan and Rohit, and then middle order/Lower order batsmen like Rahul, Rahane, Dhoni, Pandya.

Who does Babar have?

 

[MHN1293]

Even with Kohli, how can you fault the man for not having openers like Dhawan and Rohit, and then middle order/Lower order batsmen like Rahul, Rahane, Dhoni, Pandya.

Who does Babar have?

Babar has minnow basher imam and 90 sr "EXPLOSIVE" opener fakhar who barely manages 20 runs against zimbabwe. Followed by leg side hacks , wanna be all rounders and wicketkeepers thinking a test match is being played.

 

[Rana]

Babar has minnow basher imam and 90 sr "EXPLOSIVE" opener fakhar who barely manages 20 runs against zimbabwe. Followed by leg side hacks , wanna be all rounders and wicketkeepers thinking a test match is being played.

Exactly

Don’t let anyone tell you that he isn’t better than Kohli. People think cricket is being played on EA sports Cricket PS4.

Give all of those names the same mediocre players Babar has to work with and let’s see how they revolutionise their sides. Also the bowling attacks/spinners each of those player have matter a lot as well.

Pakistan can score 350 against England and they still dont have bowlers who will gaurentee to defend that total. Whilst England have batsmen that will chase it down in 40 overs

 

[Hasan123]

Since Babar's ODI debut (2015)...

Against Top 5 ODI teams (Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ and SAF)

VIRAT KOHLI

Matches - 58
Average - 68
100s - 13

JOE ROOT

Matches - 47
Average - 52
100s - 7

KANE WILLIAMSON

Matches - 47
Average - 45
100s - 5

BABAR AZAM

Matches - 45
Average - 45
100s - 3






NO

I think this probably answers the question.

 

[kingusama92]

Exactly

Don’t let anyone tell you that he isn’t better than Kohli. People think cricket is being played on EA sports Cricket PS4.

Give all of those names the same mediocre players Babar has to work with and let’s see how they revolutionise their sides. Also the bowling attacks/spinners each of those player have matter a lot as well.

Pakistan can score 350 against England and they still dont have bowlers who will gaurentee to defend that total. Whilst England have batsmen that will chase it down in 40 overs

I disagree.

Babar has limitations in his batting that Kohli simply doesn't. Kohli switches between gears seamlessly and that's what makes him an incredible batsman when chasing.

These limitations have nothing to do with who Babar has batting around him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a world-class player and I have been supporting him before most on PP did (when he was just 15/16).

 

[Mobashir]

I disagree.

Babar has limitations in his batting that Kohli simply doesn't. Kohli switches between gears seamlessly and that's what makes him an incredible batsman when chasing.

These limitations have nothing to do with who Babar has batting around him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a world-class player and I have been supporting him before most on PP did (when he was just 15/16).

Talking strictly about ODI'S, Kohli does accelerate little better for the moment but surely Babar is improving a lot on that front. And you can't say that the order around doesn't count. Kohli knows that while accelerating if he looses his wicket there are other players who can chase it.

Kohli has his own default that Babar doesn't have. Babar is a better powerplay batsman against good bowling. Babar does perform better in important matches.
On current form, Babar isn't behind anyone in ODI'S.

 

[Rajdeep]

Kohli, Root and Smith should not even be in this discussion!

They are all surrounded by superstar batsmen who make their role at number 3 so much more easier in comparison to Babar who has nobody besides Harris Sohail (who is injury prone)

In that context, Yes Babar is the best no.3 in ODIs since then

Its a wrong way of looking at things. Sachin was the best batsman in the world and consistent highest run scorer in 90s when his team mates were total duds. If a batsman is good...he will shine irrespective of its team mates.

Btw, why changed Lesnar DP? Are you taking face turn now from heel?

 

[Rana]

Its a wrong way of looking at things. Sachin was the best batsman in the world and consistent highest run scorer in 90s when his team mates were total duds. If a batsman is good...he will shine irrespective of its team mates.

Btw, why changed Lesnar DP? Are you taking face turn now from heel?

Yes you are right and this is why Babar is probably better than all of them because he literally has no support. Just watch that chase against Zimbabwe, the guy was batting with the face of a broken man. He knows that he has nobody if Harris isnt there in the side!

Can you imagine Kohli playing with the following line up:

1. Gaikwad
2. Padikal
3. Kohli
4. Rayadu
5. Samson
6. Tewatia
7. Dube

He will still do well with them, but Pakistan's batting line up is atleast 2 tiers below this line up when it comes to modern batting standards. This is what Babar has to work with!

The display pic represents my reaction to some hypocritical posters on this forum

 

[Rajdeep]

Yes you are right and this is why Babar is probably better than all of them because he literally has no support. Just watch that chase against Zimbabwe, the guy was batting with the face of a broken man. He knows that he has nobody if Harris isnt there in the side!

Can you imagine Kohli playing with the following line up:

1. Gaikwad
2. Padikal
3. Kohli
4. Rayadu
5. Samson
6. Tewatia
7. Dube

He will still do well with them, but Pakistan's batting line up is atleast 2 tiers below this line up when it comes to modern batting standards. This is what Babar has to work with!

The display pic represents my reaction to some hypocritical posters on this forum

C'mmon dude...Babar was simply not better than Kohli between period of 2015-2019. Both statistically and impact wise, Kohli was much ahead. Playing in a weaker line up also gives Babar more oppurtunities to shine.

As I said, Babar may rule the next 5 years as best no 3 batsman when Kohli is on a decline. But you would be naive to think Babar was best no.3 batsman since 2015. .lol.

 

[Rayyman]

No

 

[MHN1293]

Its a wrong way of looking at things. Sachin was the best batsman in the world and consistent highest run scorer in 90s when his team mates were total duds. If a batsman is good...he will shine irrespective of its team mates.

Btw, why changed Lesnar DP? Are you taking face turn now from heel?

When his teammates were duds in the 90s sachin wasnt that good of an odi cricketer. In his 9th or 10th year in 1997 was when he actually started to dominate around the same time when india was starting to transition over to a better team. Maybe it was becuz of better cricketers around him or maybe becuz of him entering his peak years. Btw i am still surprised how he managed to play 34+ matches in some of the years, pakistan barely play even 15.

 

[Rana]

C'mmon dude...Babar was simply not better than Kohli between period of 2015-2019. Both statistically and impact wise, Kohli was much ahead. Playing in a weaker line up also gives Babar more oppurtunities to shine.

As I said, Babar may rule the next 5 years as best no 3 batsman when Kohli is on a decline. But you would be naive to think Babar was best no.3 batsman since 2015. .lol.

This is a myth.

Its like saying if Kohli and Smith played for the mediocre Pakistan ODI side, they would average 1000

 

[Rajdeep]

When his teammates were duds in the 90s sachin wasnt that good of an odi cricketer. In his 9th or 10th year in 1997 was when he actually started to dominate around the same time when india was starting to transition over to a better team. Maybe it was becuz of better cricketers around him or maybe becuz of him entering his peak years. Btw i am still surprised how he managed to play 34+ matches in some of the years, pakistan barely play even 15.

What are you talking about? Sachin was world's best batsman going into 96 world cup. India team was literally Sachin, a one man army. Also, Indian batting didnt peak from 97 onwards. Ganguly just made his debut and Dravid was a poor ODI cricketer who got dropped from the team. Sachin was world's best batsman from 96 onwards up unti 2002.

Its only since 2001 after Ganguly became captain, influx team with youngsters like Sehwag, Yuvraj etc...we got proper batsmen. Dravid also started to become reliable by that time.

 

[Rajdeep]

This is a myth.

Its like saying if Kohli and Smith played for the mediocre Pakistan ODI side, they would average 1000

Myth for you maybe. Because no one else on this thread agrees that Babar was a better batsman than Kohli between 2015-2020. Dont be jealous bro...accept the reality.

Babar is the future but not sure why you want to re- write the past

 

[JibranAnsari]

Babar doesnt have the jigra to explore his elastic limit. I will place him below all these mentioned.

 

[QalandarFan]

Since Babar's ODI debut (2015)...

Against Top 5 ODI teams (Ind, Aus, Eng, NZ and SAF)

VIRAT KOHLI

Matches - 58
Average - 68
100s - 13

JOE ROOT

Matches - 47
Average - 52
100s - 7

KANE WILLIAMSON

Matches - 47
Average - 45
100s - 5

BABAR AZAM

Matches - 45
Average - 45
100s - 3






NO

As big of a Babar fan I am this really sums it up.

 

[Shaddy86]

If you're batsman of great ability would you prefer to bat around other great batsmen who would eat into your opportunity of scoring runs and put pressure on you to do better than they are or you're the lone warrior who gets an opportunity to bat long every time and don't have to worry about being over-performed by your team mates. I know I'd want to be the former, more opportunities, less pressure of being dropped and praised highly more often than not. Babar has an advantage for sure.

 

[Rana]

Has Babar Azam estabilished himself as the best no.3 in world cricket since his debut bar kohli. If u just look at the stats he has played 59 innings scoring 3030 runs at nealry 63 and 12 hundreds. For comparison root averages 54 with 11 hundreds in 80 innings and williamson averages 50 with 11 tons in nearly 110 innings. Most of this has been built up away from home. Even kohli averages similar, 63 that is but not to undermine the 30+ hundreds he has got in the position.

Babar who debuted in 2015 being compared to the following:

Kohli (ODI Debut 2008)
Williamson (2010)
Smith (2010)
Root (2012)

Massive player in world cricket regardless of how well the others have played and how strong the support batsmen around them have been.

 

[MenInG]

 

[MHN1293]

View attachment 104385

Probably has to do with not playing in the uae.

 

[Local.Dada]

Very good player and has great stats but let’s ask ourselves this sincere question, since people have already said Kohli is in a different league altogether- a rough chase against a world class bowling line up on a tricky pitch- You have to pick one or rank them in order

Smith,Williamson,Root,Babar

 

[MenInG]

 

[MHN1293]

Very good player and has great stats but let’s ask ourselves this sincere question, since people have already said Kohli is in a different league altogether- a rough chase against a world class bowling line up on a tricky pitch- You have to pick one or rank them in order

Smith,Williamson,Root,Babar

Assuming u mean chasing a below 300 target my order would be williamson, babar, smith, root.

 

[PakPremi]

Talking strictly about ODI'S, Kohli does accelerate little better for the moment but surely Babar is improving a lot on that front. And you can't say that the order around doesn't count. Kohli knows that while accelerating if he looses his wicket there are other players who can chase it.

Kohli has his own default that Babar doesn't have. Babar is a better powerplay batsman against good bowling. Babar does perform better in important matches.
On current form, Babar isn't behind anyone in ODI'S.

That is exactly what my views are too as expressed in another thread. Babar cannot afford to play risky shots as often it's Babar or bust batting line up. On current form and improved strike rate he is as good as anyone.

 

[PakPremi]

What are you talking about? Sachin was world's best batsman going into 96 world cup. India team was literally Sachin, a one man army. Also, Indian batting didnt peak from 97 onwards. Ganguly just made his debut and Dravid was a poor ODI cricketer who got dropped from the team. Sachin was world's best batsman from 96 onwards up unti 2002.

Its only since 2001 after Ganguly became captain, influx team with youngsters like Sehwag, Yuvraj etc...we got proper batsmen. Dravid also started to become reliable by that time.

India always had more than one good batsman in their team. Sachin and Kohli though are a class above Babar.

 

[shamaan]

Babar is the best after kohli

 

[shamaan]

Myth for you maybe. Because no one else on this thread agrees that Babar was a better batsman than Kohli between 2015-2020. Dont be jealous bro...accept the reality.

Babar is the future but not sure why you want to re- write the past

If babar was playing in indian team his stats would be considerably better and if kohli was playing in pakistan team his stats would be not as good.but i agree kohli is better playing in their respectful teams

 

[shamaan]

If you're batsman of great ability would you prefer to bat around other great batsmen who would eat into your opportunity of scoring runs and put pressure on you to do better than they are or you're the lone warrior who gets an opportunity to bat long every time and don't have to worry about being over-performed by your team mates. I know I'd want to be the former, more opportunities, less pressure of being dropped and praised highly more often than not. Babar has an advantage for sure.

Disagree I rather have players who can take the responsibility of me example if kohli gets out he knows he has the player to win the game for india can babar say the same thing NO

 

[shamaan]

Very good player and has great stats but let’s ask ourselves this sincere question, since people have already said Kohli is in a different league altogether- a rough chase against a world class bowling line up on a tricky pitch- You have to pick one or rank them in order

Smith,Williamson,Root,Babar

I would go williamson,babar,smith,root

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Babar does perform better in important matches.

How many important matches has Babar even played?