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Has Babar Azam's T20 game suffered because of his habit of stat-padding?
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VForVendetta
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As I said, the captaincy is the bigger issue than batsmanship.He really shouldn't feature in any decent t20 team based on what we have witnessed since last PSL.His limitations have been really exposed at global stages & different conditions against top level bowlers. But because he is the national captain, they have no other choice but to play him. Strip him of captaincy & then he will have to earn the spot,as he will have to either improve his game or simply perish. Again I'll repeat last night he didn't lose due to his batting, but due to his captaincy.115 of 65 is not a poor innings specially batting first. Also we need to admit Roy played a freakish knock.
daytrader
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Bro kuch bhi...
.png "Apology :apology")
3 of them don't even have T20i hundreds and none of them have a 49 ball century like Babar!
5th gears lol atleast name batters in the same class as Babar. Your'e comparing Hondas and Toyotas to a Ferrari
Rana
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Bro kuch bhi...
3 of them don't even have T20i hundreds and none of them have a 49 ball century like Babar!
5th gears lol atleast name batters in the same class as Babar. Your'e comparing Hondas and Toyotas to a Ferrari
So then you all cry when Doully criticises the fascination with stats and not team first
You all deserve to hear the blunt truth by Simon Doull
daytrader
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He's making a living. Knows he can get away with adding some spice. The more people talk about him, the higher his pay cheque
Rana
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I’m not making a living. I’ve been saying what Doully is saying now for 3 years or more. I’ve been saying it with complete honesty.
Are you implying that Simon Doull is purposely lying in order to make money?
daytrader
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Maybe he's reading PP and just quoting you. I'd give you more credit for honesty than Doully
Also in those 3 years RizBar has continued to humble you
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VForVendetta
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If he could really maintain that sr I don't think there would be so much controversy. Currently his international sr stands at 127 & overall at freaking 125!! I believe his PSL sr is even lower. So basically he can't even go at 130 properly. I don't think those numbers justify inclusion in a top t20 side, that too at a lofty opening spot.
Bro kuch bhi...
3 of them don't even have T20i hundreds and none of them have a 49 ball century like Babar!
5th gears lol atleast name batters in the same class as Babar. Your'e comparing Hondas and Toyotas to a Ferrari
PSL strike rates:
Babar : 123
Roy : 148
Vince : 140
Babar isn’t even close openers from other countries what are we looking at here a century once scored against some unknown bowlers from South Africa it looks like.
Rana
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Simon Doull isn’t the only one. There are plenty of great cricketers who share the same views. Wasim Akram, Gambhir, Mohammad Asif (yes he’s a cheat) are some of the recently vocal analysts
I’ve read somewhere that Simon Doull has torn into Kane Williamson as well. He’s not being dishonest
Rana
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How have they humbled me??
daytrader
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So PSL is greater than international cricket?
Misbah ul haq has a higher strike rate than Brendon McCullum in the IPL, does that make him better?
Misbah also has a strike rate of 110 in the PSL.
daytrader
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Yes I know, PSL is the best. Roy and Vince should be striking at 200+ in international cricket now that they faced PSL bowling right
daytrader
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By continuing to be despite your wishes. They've played two T20 WCs as openers together, set records, continue to shine and make Pakistan proud. And they'll continue to be, at least part of the team if not as openers together. Their time will die it's natural death, one will drop down and eventually both until we have better options. This will be an organic change.
Whereas you continue seeking validation of your opinion in a meaningless domestic game of a team that is already out of the competition with nothing to play, the softest of soft runs, scored by a batter who's not even preferred by his international side.
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PSL is not the best but our players can’t even do better than others here it’s no surprise Babar struggled in tournaments I think even Ahmed Shehzad has better strike rates in tournaments than Babar did in the Asia and World Cup.
daytrader
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Our T20i team's top 3 - Babar, Rizwan and Fakhar have all scored centuries this PSL. They continue to show why they're the best in the country and why they merit their selections.
You can only score quicker than your opponent if they know score they will be chasing.
Zaz
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Another nonsense post, 73 at 187 strike rate is stat padding now?
Please look up the word if you dont know what it means
Zaz
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Admit what? That hes the premier batter in the world right now Yes
He keeps proving doubters wrong
The batsmen you mentioned are not even in the same class as him my friend How many are all format top 5 batters like Babar?
Theres a reason why babar is lauded around the world
Those that have watched cricket for a long time know the quality he is
Its only the hit and giggle fans like yourself who have no clue on batsmanship and think the likes of sharjeel, asif ali and azam khan are somehow superior Hilarious
topspin
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and a strike rate of 110 in T20Is.
topspin
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It's not just PSL though is it?
His strike rate has been been on the decline since 2020 and it was appalling during last year's WT20 and Asia Cup. In one of those two tournaments he was batting at less than run a ball but at least he made Misbah proud.
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Zaz
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How many actually outscored him in his team? 30 off 15 would help but arent gonna win u a game like that and if he did score that he wouldve been criticised its only 30
Lets keep the criticism balanced shall we
He didnt stat pad yday Theres no evidence of that
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Roy out for 6.
Maybe he should have padded his stats and stuck around.
And once again, Roy cannot play innings like those everyday - fact.
Maybe he should have padded his stats and stuck around.
And once again, Roy cannot play innings like those everyday - fact.
Zaz
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Consistency in runs is underrated and does matter
Roy may win you a game every once in a while but the way he plays means he wont be as consistent as someone like babar
Rana
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Zaz
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Roys strike rate is impressive not his ability to score runs consistently
Mening is right He wont do it all time and its not bread and butter for him He wouldnt be avging 27 in t20s if that was the case
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Add proper responses to this thread please.
topspin
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As long as it comes at an acceptable strike rate then indeed consistency is good.
However, if you're scoring 50 off 40 balls and are going at run a ball during the powerplay, like how Babar and Rizwan have been batting together for Pakistan, then that consistency is worthless.
It's easy to be consistent when you're playing a brand of low risk cricket. That kind of consistency in the modern game isn't even worthy of mention.
Rana
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Exactly. It leads to severe criticism, and then it becomes very hard for the fans defending this approach to digest the criticism
topspin
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Yes it sure does lead to severe criticism, not just from fans but also from those overseas commentators who aren't afraid to mince their words.
The bottom line is it all blows up when the stakes are high. Asia Cup and the World T20 last year are good cases in point.
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Pakistan got to the world cup t20 final and asia cup final so mustve actually done something right to actually make it that far
As far as i know india didnt even get to these finals so they mustve been stat padding then surely?
topspin
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My last post was in reference to how Pakistan's openers have fared and how they've failed the side on the big stage in the shortest format.
India didn't make the final of the WT20 despite having a better tournament because they faced England in the Semi. Pakistan were lucky to have faced New Zealand instead during the same stage of the competition. Also, I would rather beat India than lose to them and come home empty handed so not sure what all the chest thumping about making finals is all about?
This is exactly the small team mentality that is holding Pakistan back. We've become content with 50 off 40 balls and run a ball powerplay performances from the side.
In case you haven't realised, this isn't 2009 anymore, we're in 2023. The game has moved on enormously since the dawn era of T20 cricket.
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Zaz
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So india fall against england thats because they faced england But pakistan lose to them and its because of the openers - make no sense
Theres no chest thumping You fail to address the fact that pakistan is doing relatively well in the format (considering its lack of resources) The tactics they use you may not like but it works for them
Lets be realistic pakistan doesnt have the players a england has so has to adapt accordingly
And its not a small team mentality Its facing facts which u dont seem do Weve seen it this psl The best pakistani batters are the likes of babar rizwan and fakhar who are already bat in the top 3 for pakistan
Who are these pakistani players that can strike at 140 plus from the off successfully and go big and where has pakistan been hiding them because i dont see any of that quality capable of facin quality intnl bowling
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Quickest to 9000 T20 runs:<br><br>Babar Azam 245 innings <br>Chris Gayle 249 innings<br>Virat Kohli 271 innings<br>David Warner 273 innings<br>Aaron Finch 281 innings<br>AB de Villiers 304 innings<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PSL8?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PSL8</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1636381206605619201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 16, 2023</a></blockquote>
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<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Rana
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Would be nice to share strike rates too
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Babar-E-Azam
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Osama Shafeeqe
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The likes of Babar have shown that they constantly seek to improve themselves. Remembering that Babar is still only 28 and still has much ability to change his mindset and abilities and he has shown that he does take criticism and seeks to improve. Examples of this include his Test career and even now this PSL season he has shown tremendous amount of intent and improvement in strike rate.
He will never have what you call a "fifth gear" and for some reason you think that disqualifies him as an opener in T20s but his ability to convert starts and set/chase big totals as consistently as he does is almost unparalleled.
Zaz
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And i wouldnt want him to either The consistency style and technique with which he makes his runs is brilliant in itself and should be lauded
Hes the best pakistani batsmen in a generation and is very likely to go down as its greatest
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Babar with the lowest SR of his team (min 4 balls). A total SR of 117 on 42(36). No wonder the PZ lost this one.
A magnificent innings from Haris of 85(54) goes to waste.
A magnificent innings from Haris of 85(54) goes to waste.
topspin
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Bottling it again when the stakes are high. 42 runs off 36 balls coming at 116 strike rate isn't good enough.
His performances in big games leaves much to be desired.
Babar's fans need to accept that Pakistan have better options for their top 3 in the shortest format of the game.
His performances in big games leaves much to be desired.
Babar's fans need to accept that Pakistan have better options for their top 3 in the shortest format of the game.
Rana
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Dodged a bullet by getting forcefully rested for the AFG series
Even if he did score well in the powerplay, Rashid Khan would have his number in the 7th over every time.
Even if he did score well in the powerplay, Rashid Khan would have his number in the 7th over every time.
Rana
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[MENTION=147699]Gullycricket[/MENTION] where you hiding brother?
Babar Azam runs scored and balls faced at the end of each over today:
1 off 2 balls faced
6 off 4 balls
6 off 5 balls
15 off 11 balls
16 off 13 balls
21 off 18 balls
22 off 19 balls
27 off 23 balls
29 off 25 balls
39 off 29 balls
41 off 34
42 off 36 balls
He never actually got going today.
2 good overs of 9 and 10 runs - the rest, terrible.
1 off 2 balls faced
6 off 4 balls
6 off 5 balls
15 off 11 balls
16 off 13 balls
21 off 18 balls
22 off 19 balls
27 off 23 balls
29 off 25 balls
39 off 29 balls
41 off 34
42 off 36 balls
He never actually got going today.
2 good overs of 9 and 10 runs - the rest, terrible.
Zaz
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to be fair it was the latter half of peshawar zalmis innings when they messed up and got bogged down
him and harris had a good partnership and were looking at 190-200 at one stage But once babar got out they only scored 60 odd in last 8-9 overs
Babar Azam "The score was less and we didn't get the finish. We were 100 in 11 overs but lost the plot from overs 11-15"
But Babar with a bit more urgency from you and effort, like Haris was doing, you could have been 120 in 11 overs.
Small margins make all the difference.
But Babar with a bit more urgency from you and effort, like Haris was doing, you could have been 120 in 11 overs.
Small margins make all the difference.
topspin
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They've all gone hiding. Have you noticed how it quiet it is today because none of these blind followers have anything left to say?
KingOfPakBreakfast
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Nobody’s hiding. It’s a Friday night.
Not a great personal performance from him, but he grew as a captain in the tournament. Not the best captain in Pakistan, probably the 4th best behind Rizzy, Shaheen and Shadab. But he’s a better captain after this PSL than he was before it.
More crucially, he gave opportunities to young players. As a result, Saim and Haseebullah are in the Pakistan squad.
Other captains managed young players so badly that they actively regressed.
So, a middling tournament, but bright shoots for the future. They sort out they’re bowling for next season and they’ll be challenging LQ and MS.
Rana
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Imad is still the best captain out of this lot.
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I can't believe anyone can rate Babar above Imad as a captain.
Babar isn't even a natural leader and the less said about his field placings/bowling changes the better. The guy has let so many teams off the hook (for Pakistan and in PSL).
Rana
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Babar is only a captain for ensuring his own batting position as an opener. That’s one decision he consciously makes as a leader. A decision that suits him
The rest is all extracurricular for him. In this PSL, it was Sammy doing all of his decision making off the field
KingOfPakBreakfast
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The same Imad under whom young players actively regressed? Watch Qasim Akram under Imad’s captaincy Vs under Babar’s. One version played with freedom whilst the other played with pressure.
He’s also the guy who bottled two games after taking 3 and 4 wickets in the Powerplay. Because he went defensive instead of going for the throat. Defensive fields with men on the edge of the area, giving easy singles when you have the opposition down 3 wickets in 4 overs. That’s letting teams off the hook.
Bowling changes? Field placing? You seem to have an active imagination.
Hilarious in hiding behind and trusting more in Shoaib Malik over his own ability.
Chopping and changing the team every game, so that players were always questioning their place.
Weird choices, keeping Aamir Yamin in the line up forever.
Babar is not the best Pakistani captain, but he actually shows some good traits, even if the whole is flawed.
Imad is a bad bad captain. And his lack of ownership and understanding of why his teams are doing badly is even more eye brow raising.
Having a personally strong mindset doesn’t make you a good leader. Just look at Kevin Pietersen.
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KingOfPakBreakfast
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I know right? Loved how he followed Sami’s instruction in bowling Wahab in the last over yesterday. Oh wait…
Rana
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So he made one decision? Besides protecting his opening slot and not having the…to face Shaheen first ball throughout the tournament?
topspin
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Before you throw words like "delusion" around, just a gentle reminder when BabarAzam captained Karachi Kings last year:
Imad had an even weaker team but still managed to win 3 matches, so under his leadership it's going in the right direction.
I can't take you seriously, if you're going to maintain that Babar is a better captain than Imad. For your sake stop making a fool out of yourself.
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KingOfPakBreakfast
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Right, having James Wade, James Vince and an available Mo Aamir is having a weaker team?
Drafting middle order stalwart Shoaib Malik (Imad’s choice) is a weaker team?
Having recent T20 no. 1 ranked bowler Tabraiz Shamsi is a weaker team?
Anyone with a baseline IQ will confirm that this year’s KK squad was much better than Prior year. ‘Even weaker’ (!!). Thanks, you got me there.
Also, ultimately the current table doesn’t lie.
KingOfPakBreakfast
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A pretty widely used tactic to have a lefty face Shaheen in the first over. ISLU did it with Munro and Multan did it with Shan.
topspin
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You can spin it however you like it but you've just exposed yourself here.
A win record of 10% and you think he's a better captain than Imad
)KingOfPakBreakfast
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You can spin it however you like it but you've just exposed yourself here.
A win record of 10% and you think he's a better captain than Imad
Didn’t Babar win 5 games in the league stage this PSL? 5 is more than 3.
Plus a play off game as well.
I Respect the mental gymnastics though.
topspin
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Imad genuinely would've done better with the same assets in Peshawar Zalmi's team.
When it comes to Babar's captaincy in this edition of the PSL, everyone will remember that he failed to defend 240+ in back to back games.
Before you mention it, I know Babar put himself in a blanket in the second of these two contests.
In the history of T20 cricket, I've never come across a single captain who's failed when to defend 240+ on multiple occasions.
This is why I think you need to have a rethink when it comes to Babar's captaincy credentials.
He’s won twice as many games as Imad but Imad is a natural leader.
KingOfPakBreakfast
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Never said he’s a great captain. He’s got three blokes who are objectively better captains than him in Shaheen, Rizzy and Shadab (per the league table). Haris may develop into a better captain than Babar. Sarfi was a better captain, before age and the desperation to prove himself affected his captaincy. But Babar is a better captain than Imad. Imad has more of the ‘fighter’ in him, than Babar. Will never disagree with that. But objectively, Imad is a worse captain.
Rana
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I honestly can’t wait for Rizwan to be made the T20 captain of Pakistan
This Jahaaz captain will only be exposed once he gets the top job.
This Jahaaz captain will only be exposed once he gets the top job.
topspin
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I accept that you won't budge on this but one aspect we haven't covered is Babar's selfishness with the bat. His stat padding and the way he slows down when nearing milestones doesn't even make him captaincy material, let alone a good captain. He shouldn't even be in the picture for captaincy.
Imad on the other hand has always led by example with the bat and played selflessly for the team whether it be for Pakistan or in the PSL.
This is why it's so baffling to hear an avid and self proclaimed impartial Pakistan cricket fan who somehow actually believes that Babar is the superior captain.
As I've mentioned before, I genuinely believe, your judgement is clouded by your dislike for Imad's "outbursts" aimed at Babar.
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topspin
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If Muhammad Haris is good enough with the gloves, there should be no room for Rizwan in the starting XI.
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My judgement of Imad is based on the following:
- His lack of actual emotional intelligence. The best captains are ones that can have their players play above their ability. Good, functional captains let players play at their ability. Poor captains actually have players play within themselves, because of the dressing room atmosphere they cultivate. You can see from the performance of the younger players under him ( who are the most unsure of their abilities) who underperformed under him. Niazi is a much better player than he showed. Qasim was a shadow of the player he was last year (and he’s better than last year, per his National T20 performances). Imad is too much of an alpha to be able to effectively empathise with players. Babar just is better at that role. Thus you can see someone like a Haseebullah, a player thought
of as unsuited to this format, play with freedom.
Decision making- There were many perplexing decisions from Imad on this PSL. The over reliance on Aamir Yamin, Imran Tahir and Shoaib Malik was head scratching. Imad hiding behind Malik in key matches, which KK went onto lose. Releasing the pressure when having the opposition down 3/4 wickets. That’s not just personnel or bad player performances. That’s directly on the captain.
Also on Babar, I agree with his s/r issues. However in the later games I’ve actively seen him try to go harder. That is very much a work in progress.
The problem I have is that Imad’s ‘bravado’ and PR is somehow seen as effective captaincy. It just isn’t. He has an elite mindset, and he has my respect for that. But he hasn’t been able to translate that element into inspirational captaincy.
Babar, for all his timidity, gets players to play for him. In doing so, they perform to and sometimes above their ability. That’s why I think he’s a better captain than Imad, if not a great captain overall.
Rana
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But Shadab and Shaheen will die before they build their team without Rizwan and Babar in it. And if those two are in the team, they will open and Rizwan will add value by keeping.
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Haris Rauf and Shan Masood. More people in the Babar group.
Nice post.
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Imad is a champion captain, Babar isn’t.
KingOfPakBreakfast
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How’d that work out this year?
Then I guess Rizwan is the best captain, followed by Shaheen.
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I love how some posters throw around rubbish opinions without bscking them up with any actual evidence
Like imad is a champion captain even tho his team finished bottom of the league this year
By repeating the same thing over and over again and shouting it out loud doesnt make it true
Imad needs to show less talk and more results if hes to be mentioned as a good captain
Like imad is a champion captain even tho his team finished bottom of the league this year
By repeating the same thing over and over again and shouting it out loud doesnt make it true
Imad needs to show less talk and more results if hes to be mentioned as a good captain
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