Has MS Dhoni tarnished his legacy?

[saadsahabjee]

No one imagined that a wicket keeper with rambo Style will one day become one of the greatest for team india. He completely changed the mentality of Indian cricketers and to be honest after his appointment as the captain of the Indian team one could see the great changes he has done to make a better team, not to forget the exclusion on non performing Big cricketers such as Sehwag,Gambhir,Dravid and some also say he was behind the retirement of Sachin as well.

He Started his captaincy in both odis and Test cricket with phenomenal stats but the away tours are where problems started for Dhoni and he keeps on losing away tests resulting in his test captaincy record to become ordinary.Also at one point in onedayers he was averaging around 55 but now his avg is ate the danger of dropping below 50 due to his constant failures in Onedayers for about oneyear. And the youngsters who one used to give examples of Dhoni want him kicked out just like he kicked out many other non performing players.

So the question arise , is he not the legend he once was and has he tarnished his legacy as the greatest Indian cricketer.

 

[Mamoon]

Once you reach legendary status, your legacy can never be tarnished. Once Dhoni retires, people will only remember him at his best, not worst.

His decline in the last few years does not wash away his greatness.

Great players can drag their careers as much as they want, but once they call it quits, it is their greatness that defines them.

 

[AMSS]

Once you reach legendary status, your legacy can never be tarnished. Once Dhoni retires, people will only remember him at his best, not worst.

His decline in the last few years does not wash away his greatness.

Great players can drag their careers as much as they want, but once they call it quits, it is their greatness that defines them.

If only it worked like that. Putting his financial interest before the team does extract a cost from his legacy. Sure, a certain amount of wiggle space can be afforded to them as nobody knows with certainty when their time is up. But Dhoni has stank up the joint for way longer than that.

 

[WengerOut]

We couldve made peace with his intention to help India had he not clung onto the T20 team even. But he is simply money and power driven these days.

 

[Mamoon]

If only it worked like that. Putting his financial interest before the team does extract a cost from his legacy. Sure, a certain amount of wiggle space can be afforded to them as nobody knows with certainty when their time is up. But Dhoni has stank up the joint for way longer than that.

It does work like that actually. The moment he announces his retirement, he will only be remembered for his achievements.

There are no examples in history of legends dragging their careers and having their legacies permanently tarnished.

Miandad had no business playing in the 1996 World Cup and was finished by that point, but no one remembers him for that today.

Dhoni’s legacy is well and truly set in stone, and the post 2014 version will be quickly forgotten when he retires.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Even in his decline, he is better than many hacks.

It's not like he is blocking way to Gillys and Sangakarras on the bench.

His captaincy input and small interventions can be decisive.

 

[Proactive_]

He is tarnishing his legacy for years now. I admired him immensely for not bowing down to the Indian superstar culture and kicking out a bunch of veterans who didn't deserve to be in the team during the early stages of his captaincy career. He needs to follow his own example and retire. He more than anyone else knows that he can never be dropped. It's the rotten culture that places individuals above the team that just keeps festering and festering.

 

[Ganju Baba]

It does work like that actually. The moment he announces his retirement, he will only be remembered for his achievements.

There are no examples in history of legends dragging their careers and having their legacies permanently tarnished.

Miandad had no business playing in the 1996 World Cup and was finished by that point, but no one remembers him for that today.

Dhoni’s legacy is well and truly set in stone, and the post 2014 version will be quickly forgotten when he retires.

Dhoni's legacy will depend on the WC 2019.

1)If India wins and Dhoni performs even moderately, he will be remembered as the man who revolutionised Indian cricket. "The guy who won two World Cups".

2) If India loses and Dhoni didn't perform what is expected of him, then he will be remembered as the jackass who cost the strongest Indian team ever its sure shot World Cup.


Most Indians think this team is the best we ever had which is though debatable is not very far from the truth. Losing WC will not go down well and people will want blood. Right now it seems that blood will be of Dhoni above everyone else.

 

[Slog]

Once you reach legendary status, your legacy can never be tarnished. Once Dhoni retires, people will only remember him at his best, not worst.

His decline in the last few years does not wash away his greatness.

Great players can drag their careers as much as they want, but once they call it quits, it is their greatness that defines them.

It does.

Kapil Dev is not counted among the ATG pacers or even in the reckoning because he dragged his career too long for an individual record and tarnished his legacy and numbers.

 

[WengerOut]

It does work like that actually. The moment he announces his retirement, he will only be remembered for his achievements.

There are no examples in history of legends dragging their careers and having their legacies permanently tarnished.

Miandad had no business playing in the 1996 World Cup and was finished by that point, but no one remembers him for that today.

Dhoni’s legacy is well and truly set in stone, and the post 2014 version will be quickly forgotten when he retires.

Miandad was a great test cricketer as well. That could be the reason he is still revered. He is not remembered for his ODI exploits apart from THAT SIX

 

[Mamoon]

It does.

Kapil Dev is not counted among the ATG pacers or even in the reckoning because he dragged his career too long for an individual record and tarnished his legacy and numbers.

What is Kapil remembered for today? For winning India the World Cup and being their greatest all-rounder or for retiring at the wrong time?

Or, what is the percentage of people today who remember him for the latter more than the former?

 

[Mamoon]

Miandad was a great test cricketer as well. That could be the reason he is still revered. He is not remembered for his ODI exploits apart from THAT SIX

Formats do no matter. Once you reach legendary status, nothing can take that away from you. Certainly not dragging your career which majority of players do anyway.

 

[jnaveen1980]

From what i have seen

His absolute best these days = His absolute worst in his hey days.

as simple as that. Instead of further hurting his own legacy and the team he should gracefully retire. This "acting captain" job may help him keep the job. But it won't help Kohli one bit. Buck stops at Kohli. He will bear the brunt even if he goes alongwith a stupid field placing of Dhoni. Only one thing that goes for him is his ability to stump. From what i see even Pant is good with stumping.

 

[gani999]

What is Kapil remembered for today? For winning India the World Cup and being their greatest all-rounder or for retiring at the wrong time?

Or, what is the percentage of people today who remember him for the latter more than the former?

Kapil is also sadly remembered for his alleged role in the match fixing scandals that rocked Indian cricket in the late 1990s. It is a big blot on his otherwise stellar reputation.

Coming back to Dhoni, his stellar reputation too will be somewhat tarnished if he insists on staying in the Indian team till the WC 2019 despite not performing well. If he changes his game and does well then all will be forgiven. If not, he will be labeled a selfish man and blamed for years to come.

 

[Mamoon]

Kapil is also sadly remembered for his alleged role in the match fixing scandals that rocked Indian cricket in the late 1990s. It is a big blot on his otherwise stellar reputation.

Coming back to Dhoni, his stellar reputation too will be somewhat tarnished if he insists on staying in the Indian team till the WC 2019 despite not performing well. If he changes his game and does well then all will be forgiven. If not, he will be labeled a selfish man and blamed for years to come.

Match-fixing is a different issue, and it of course tarnishes legacies. However, I don’t agree that dragging careers have any significant impact in the long run.

 

[Sidilicious]

I remember in the 2012-13 season, when Wigan Atheletic were relegated from the premiere league under Roberto Martinez. They also ended up winning the FA cup the very same season under the same manager.

In the last league game, Roberto Martinez had an option of playing his best XI to avoid relegation, but tiring his best players for FA cup final, or resting his best players, which would mean a sure shot relegation, but going to the FA cup Final with a team better prepared to win. Roberto chose the latter, got relegated, but won the FA cup.


And before the final premiere league match I wondered, if I were a Wigan fan, what would I rather have - remain in the premiere league, without an FA Cup, OR Get demoted and Win an FA Cup.

Now, Wigan is no Man U or even Leeds, that they have been winning, or at least have a history of winning trophies. Wigan have never won the premier league (or the first division as it was known) and nor have they won the the FA Cup before. Their only proper trophy is a league cup. Even if they had survived the premiere league they would be in a similar position next year, fighting against relegation.

But, if they won the trophy, that would be a huge deal and would be etched in every fans memory - David vs Gloiath, vicotry against all odds etc etc. In the end, I too believed that Roberto Martinez should go for the FA Cup trophy. Thats his best option to remain in Wigan's history - the manager that led them to the FA cup.

Dhoni seems to be doing that. Go for another WC, and become the player that lead them to 2 WCs (even though he is not leading, but we all know he is) or retire now.

But he is wrong. Why? Because India is NOT Wigan.

 

[Slog]

What is Kapil remembered for today? For winning India the World Cup and being their greatest all-rounder or for retiring at the wrong time?

Or, what is the percentage of people today who remember him for the latter more than the former?

People dont remember him for being one of the great pacers of the 80s which he was if he had retired in the late 80s

 

[Mamoon]

People dont remember him for being one of the great pacers of the 80s which he was if he had retired in the late 80s

His legacy is bigger than that. He is remembered for winning the World Cup at 23 and beating arguably the greatest side of all time in the final. Furthermore, he is remembered for being India’s greatest ever all-rounder.

Playing for too long and harming his average and strike rate does not take away all of that, and casual fans, that make up I would say 90% of the fan base, hardly care about all that and are probably unaware either.

If you walk around the streets of India and ask about Kapil, maybe one in a hundred cricket fan will assert that his legacy is tarnished because of his poor bowling stats at the end of his career.

 

[Ab Fan]

Once you reach legendary status, your legacy can never be tarnished. Once Dhoni retires, people will only remember him at his best, not worst.

His decline in the last few years does not wash away his greatness.

Great players can drag their careers as much as they want, but once they call it quits, it is their greatness that defines them.

Shaun Pollock?
Dale Steyn?
Hashim Amla?

 

[Mamoon]

Shaun Pollock?
Dale Steyn?
Hashim Amla?

Amla is not a legend, and Pollock is still held in high esteem. Steyn is not dragging his career and neither is his reputation tarnished. However, he has not achieved the same acclaim as some of other great players because of lack of Limited Overs exploits.

 

[Mamoon]

The problem is that people tend to look into these things from the perspective of the cricket nerds, and a lot of these opinions are shaped by the cricket nerds on this forum who follow the game with enough passion to post about it anonymously over the Internet anonymously.

Many of those who are claiming that someone like Kapil etc. have tarnished legacies because of dragging their careers were probably unaware of it before they joined this forum, but they were certainly aware of their achievements.

The casual fans who make up the overwhelming majority are the ones which define the legacies of players, and they do not get too geeky over these things.

Kapil or Dhoni’s legacies might be tarnished for posters on this forum, but for the vast majority of people who follow cricket, it does not have an impact.

The majority of Indian fans will remember Dhoni for the great captain who won the World Cup and other trophies including IPLs, and also for being a legendary finisher.

They will seldom remember his poor strike rate in his last years. If they care now, they will get over it very quickly.

These people hold the power of defining legacies, not posters on this forum.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

No. Still a legend!

He has won every trophy and in the end trophies matter the most.

 

[Hasan123]

He will be remembered for being a great captain and great player. But he should have retired earlier.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Not yet. His legacy will be ruined if he costs India the next world cup. Dhoni being dud isn't going unnoticed by media, they will roast him if he fails in WC.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Depends.

If he continues playing as he is in the World Cup and as a result India are knocked out, his legacy will be tarnished as hardcore cricket fans will remember this. For the casuals he will be a legend whatever he does now.

 

[CricketDon]

Years of ATG performances and legendary tactics undone by a year or so of poor performances.

MS is a ATG.

He will be remembered at his peak not his worst.

Their is no discussion.

 

[Ab Fan]

He will go down as an ODI ATG and one of the most impactful limited overs cricketer to have played the game.

A high quality finisher who was a legendary captain and an excellent limited over wicket-keeper. A complete package.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sadly no.

He can do as he pleases.

 

[CadPakFan]

Nope, I still say Dhoni is a true legend.

 

[giri26]

I feel that he will if he continues to fail till the WC. I guess there comes a time in everyone's career when you realise you are not good anymore and go on your own terms. The Indian players never seem to do that. MS Dhoni is still a legend and will continue to be one. I feel that Virat Kohli will be the only player, who will know when to leave and having listened to him over the years, he will go on top. Dhoni will though finish with an average under 50, which will be a shame as he deserves to have a 50+ average.

 

[the_outsider]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has got it right, like he often does.

Maybe on PP Dhoni is not considered a legend by some anymore. And people here are egotistical enough to think that their opinions will be reflected by the general masses.

Dhoni can play for another 5 years and he would still retire as an absolute legend.

Nothing in the world can change that. Least of all, some anonymous internet poster's opinion.

 

[big_gamer007]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is totally right.

Legacies are defined by how Media and cricket shows will show Dhoni after he retires and they will only show his great achievements. It's what the public like to consume so that is what is showed.

Problem is not with Dhoni it is with indian society as a whole, we love worshipping people. And it's the same with cricketers, rather than taking cricket as a professional sport and getting rid of a player past his expiry date we make them into demi gods and they are allowed to play past their expiry date.

Kapil, Sachin, Dhoni and next would be Kohli.

Also the fact that millions of $$ are riding on Dhoni puts extra pressure to not drop him, at the end of the day cricket in India is run by big business houses and Dhoni can't be dropped till he has so much money riding on him.