Has ODI average become a useless stat?

[Joseph Gomes]

Not completely useless of course, but I see many ODI hundreds at a slow pace which sometimes cost team the match, I find it hard to justify the reason to play slow once you cross 50 runs.

ODI average has become a selfish parameter used by players to silence critics, despite it being not so useful in reality.

Average have long been the chief stat to measure greatness in ODIs. Should we split it 50-50 between Avg and SR (ie, Average*50+SR*50)? Or maybe Average*60+SR*40? I don't know really, but average alone isn't enough.

The game is changing rapidly in front of our very eyes, yet we're stuck with measurement metrics from 1970s. It needs to be changed. I remember ag

 

[rhony]

People always look at AVG + SR in LOIs. Heck they are looking at it even in tests

 

[tinkud]

Isn't there already an unofficial pegging at AVG \times SR? I actually like this measure more than AVG + SR
as an indicator of value.

 

[BDfanforever]

Average is the most important factor. Also may depend from team to team as well as batting positions. Top teams higher SR is important whereas for lower tier teams like PAK/BD/SRL/WI batting longer may be more significant.

Yesterday, all Kane Williamson needed was to bat deep instead of trying to hit every ball for boundary.

 

[introvert]

Average * (sr/100 ) is perfect method.

 

[TheSensible]

Why not account for the position they play at?

A high average with a low SR for a middle order batsmen is not the same for an opening batsman.

Average x (SR/100) is a good measure but the batsman's position should also be accounted for. Something like a variable that adds to or subtracts from the batsman's "Effective Average" depending on the position they play. Call it their True Effective Average or something

Kind of like a batsman with a fixed average and RR would have a different TEA as an opening batsman, than playing at 4/5 or 6/7 position...

 

[msb314]

Average + SR would be a good measure.

A metric of 150 would be a good measure for the absolute top/elite players.

 

[fitCricFan]

if the matrics are not in favor of our team then yes, they are meaningless, much alike the comment about "Do runs against <COUNTRY NAME> even matter"

 

[YousafTheBeast]

I remember they used “batting index” for a while in English domestic T20 leagues, where the Average is added on to the SR, that should be put in place imo

 

[QalandarFan]

Well obviously if you have player with a high average but a pathetic SR the average is meaningless.

For example you have batsman X and Y: If batsman X averages 60 but with a SR of 70 compared to Batsman Y who averages 45 but with a SR of 100 you will always choose batsman Y over X.

 

[QalandarFan]

I remember they used “batting index” for a while in English domestic T20 leagues, where the Average is added on to the SR, that should be put in place imo

Yeah it would be nice too have something along those lines, but such an Index would mean Afridi -- Index of 140 -- would be a superior bat to a Rohit Sharma -- Index of 136 --, so such a stat is very misleading. Just looking at Ave+SR and comparing them is sufficient in my view.

 

[QalandarFan]

Average + SR would be a good measure.

A metric of 150 would be a good measure for the absolute top/elite players.

Such a stat would mean a player like Maxwell would be superior to Kohli lets take a look

Kohli A+S = 152
De Villiers A+S = 155
Maxwell A+S = 155
Rohit Sharma A+S = 136
Imam Ul Haq A+S = 145

So as you can see such a stat can be misleading as if either one of your Ave or SR is really high you can top the charts. Now according to this Maxwell is a top player the level of AB or Kohli. Now we now that is not true because he averages 32. Also Imam has a higher Index than the best opener in the world. Now who in the world would choose Imam over Rohit in their team. Such a system of measurement does not work. Hence just looking at Average and SR is better. The top elite players are still the ones who average 50+ with a 90+ SR (AB and Kohli) Guys like Maxwell who average 30 with a SR of 120 can be good finishers but they can not be put in the same bracket as your Kohli's or AB's.

 

[CricFan2012]

It is easy scoring when you completely block out or avoid good balls and punish bad balls where there are field restrictions and limited overs per bowlers in ODIs.

The best players therefore won't dare play at a strike rate below 90 in a normal batting scenario.

 

[BreadPakoda]

There is nothing meaningless. However, numbers need to be looked at in context. E.g. I would take Ross Taylor over Hashim Amla even though both his average and SR are lower than the latter’s.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Not necessarily.

Averages do matter. I did argue in the other thread that useless 100's for personal satisfaction are totally useless for the team. I stand by that.

But one must look at the overall scenario.

The aim is to bat out 300 balls to "maximize your team performance".

I keep repeating to "maximize" because I think some people seem to think that it means going "gung-ho" from ball 1 till ball 300 and trying to score 500 runs in the process.

Worthy? Yes. Practical ? Not at all. Because there is every chance that you will end up being bowled out for 200 off 100 balls. Not only did you get a below average score trying to belt every ball out of the park, but you wasted "potential 200 balls" and 200 runs if 1 run is scored off every ball.

The idea for maximizing means "at least one batsmen has to construct an innings at a good pace" which means "one batsmen has to take the onus of batting out most of the innings at a good SR to ensure that the runs don't stop".

That is why averages aren't outdated or redundant. A batsmen who is averaging 50 or 60 in ODI is usually worth its piece of gold because every time he comes to bat, he ensures 50 or 60 runs in an ODI. However, if that batsmen is scoring at a SR of 50 then that average is almost worthless, because he is wasting a "quarter of his team's balls" in playing for his 50 runs.

It's all a complex mechanics.

Averages matter. You want someone with a high average because he can bat longer. You just don't want someone with a high average with a low "striking ability" because he will waste balls that a batsmen with "lower average but better striking ability" can deposit out of the park.

 

[latecut]

When a statistics is not going in favour of your team, then that statistics is useless. In fact even a format of cricket or a tournament is useless if it is not going in favour of a team. I recall Champions Trophy used to be a useless ODI tournament till 2017 final, when suddenly it became the most important ODI tournament.

 

[msb314]

Such a stat would mean a player like Maxwell would be superior to Kohli lets take a look

Kohli A+S = 152
De Villiers A+S = 155
Maxwell A+S = 155
Rohit Sharma A+S = 136
Imam Ul Haq A+S = 145

So as you can see such a stat can be misleading as if either one of your Ave or SR is really high you can top the charts. Now according to this Maxwell is a top player the level of AB or Kohli. Now we now that is not true because he averages 32. Also Imam has a higher Index than the best opener in the world. Now who in the world would choose Imam over Rohit in their team. Such a system of measurement does not work. Hence just looking at Average and SR is better. The top elite players are still the ones who average 50+ with a 90+ SR (AB and Kohli) Guys like Maxwell who average 30 with a SR of 120 can be good finishers but they can not be put in the same bracket as your Kohli's or AB's.

Perhaps averages and SR's should be weighte differently - like 70/30 in favor of averages.

 

[King-Misbah]

Perhaps averages and SR's should be weighte differently - like 70/30 in favor of averages.

For impact of player on game, more better to do average * (Strike Rate/100).

Example: 55 (Average) * 0.9 (SR(90)/100): 49.5.

Compare this with another player with average of 40 and SR of 110: 49.5 impact.

I think this is a good idea!

 

[Slog]

In ODIs my rule has always been that Average + SR combination should add upto 140 in the modern game to be considered a good ODI batsman.

So 50@90, 40@100, 30@110 all work. Average should be minimum of 30 for this rule

 

[msb314]

For impact of player on game, more better to do average * (Strike Rate/100).

Example: 55 (Average) * 0.9 (SR(90)/100): 49.5.

Compare this with another player with average of 40 and SR of 110: 49.5 impact.

I think this is a good idea!

The problem with this approach is that a 30 avg batsman with a 120 SR will have the same "impact" as a 50 avg batsan with a 100 SR.

It is easier to become a tullaybaaz and slog your way to a 120 SR but much harder to maintain a 50+ avg in ODI's.

 

[msb314]

In ODIs my rule has always been that Average + SR combination should add upto 140 in the modern game to be considered a good ODI batsman.

So 50@90, 40@100, 30@110 all work. Average should be minimum of 30 for this rule

As [MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION] pointed out - your metric would imply that Maxwell is the same calibre batsman as Kohli or an ABD.

I think averages should be weighted higher as it is harder to maintain a good batting avg rather than a good SR.

 

[Sadozai]

The problem with this approach is that a 30 avg batsman with a 120 SR will have the same "impact" as a 50 avg batsan with a 100 SR.

It is easier to become a tullaybaaz and slog your way to a 120 SR but much harder to maintain a 50+ avg in ODI's.

It wont have the same impact as you described..

Avg: 50 SR: 100 = Impact: 50
Avg: 30 SR: 120 = Impact: 36

 

[King-Misbah]

The problem with this approach is that a 30 avg batsman with a 120 SR will have the same "impact" as a 50 avg batsan with a 100 SR.

It is easier to become a tullaybaaz and slog your way to a 120 SR but much harder to maintain a 50+ avg in ODI's.

No, they wont.

A batman who averages 30 with a SR of 120 will have an impact of 36..(30 * (120/100). However, the second batsman will have an impact of 50...(50 * (100/100).

 

[jeetu]

[MENTION=142765]King-Misbah[/MENTION] [MENTION=148136]Sadozai[/MENTION]
Top 25 ODI players according to Avg*SR
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Rank [/td][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]Avg*SR [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1 [/td][td]V Kohli [/td][td]222 [/td][td]59.5 [/td][td]92.66 [/td][td]5513.27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2 [/td][td]AB de Villiers [/td][td]228 [/td][td]53.5 [/td][td]101.09 [/td][td]5408.32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3 [/td][td]JM Bairstow [/td][td]54 [/td][td]48.02 [/td][td]104.56 [/td][td]5020.97 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4 [/td][td]JC Buttler [/td][td]122 [/td][td]39.7 [/td][td]116.97 [/td][td]4643.71 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5 [/td][td]MS Dhoni [/td][td]337 [/td][td]51.04 [/td][td]87.72 [/td][td]4477.23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 [/td][td]HM Amla [/td][td]173 [/td][td]49.97 [/td][td]89.24 [/td][td]4459.32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7 [/td][td]JE Root [/td][td]121 [/td][td]51.52 [/td][td]86.43 [/td][td]4452.87 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8 [/td][td]Babar Azam [/td][td]58 [/td][td]51.87 [/td][td]84.56 [/td][td]4386.13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9 [/td][td]S Dhawan [/td][td]121 [/td][td]45.65 [/td][td]93.69 [/td][td]4276.95 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]10 [/td][td]RG Sharma [/td][td]199 [/td][td]48.05 [/td][td]88.68 [/td][td]4261.07 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11 [/td][td]IVA Richards [/td][td]187 [/td][td]47 [/td][td]90.2 [/td][td]4239.40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]12 [/td][td]MEK Hussey [/td][td]185 [/td][td]48.15 [/td][td]87.16 [/td][td]4196.75 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]13 [/td][td]DA Warner [/td][td]106 [/td][td]43.43 [/td][td]96.55 [/td][td]4193.17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]14 [/td][td]Q de Kock [/td][td]100 [/td][td]43.85 [/td][td]94.16 [/td][td]4128.92 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]15 [/td][td]Zaheer Abbas [/td][td]62 [/td][td]47.62 [/td][td]84.8 [/td][td]4038.18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]16 [/td][td]F du Plessis [/td][td]128 [/td][td]45.26 [/td][td]88.45 [/td][td]4003.25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]17 [/td][td]LRPL Taylor [/td][td]213 [/td][td]47.88 [/td][td]83.13 [/td][td]3980.26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]18 [/td][td]MG Bevan [/td][td]232 [/td][td]53.58 [/td][td]74.16 [/td][td]3973.49 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]19 [/td][td]IJL Trott [/td][td]68 [/td][td]51.25 [/td][td]77.06 [/td][td]3949.33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]20 [/td][td]JJ Roy [/td][td]70 [/td][td]37.85 [/td][td]104.23 [/td][td]3945.11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]21 [/td][td]GJ Maxwell [/td][td]90 [/td][td]32.31 [/td][td]121.64 [/td][td]3930.19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]22 [/td][td]DA Miller [/td][td]116 [/td][td]38.25 [/td][td]101.76 [/td][td]3892.32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]23 [/td][td]SR Tendulkar [/td][td]463 [/td][td]44.83 [/td][td]86.23 [/td][td]3865.69 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]24 [/td][td]KS Williamson [/td][td]135 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]83.2 [/td][td]3827.20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]25 [/td][td]L Klusener [/td][td]171 [/td][td]41.1 [/td][td]89.91 [/td][td]3695.30 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Pete Rose]

Odi average alone is useless. Given how stats haesvy some other sports are, cricket can sometimes feel truly amateur.
If you talk to any fan about how they assess a good batsman they will tell you about:
- his average
- his strike rate
- his average in wins and losses
- his average batting first of chasing
- average in tournaments
- average in finals
- average against the big boys
- average home abd away

I think to judge batsmen’s true impact you have to incorporate the average with strike but not just as an aggreggate. Batsmen scores should be broken up in to two halves (not first 50, and second fifty because not everyone will score a century) and to look at their strike rate average across both halves. To me it gives a better worth of a players innings. It tells you whether their style of play is for themselves or for the team. Because let’s face it, the expectation from any batsman is that they can take a little bit of time to settle in and once they are in thy should go big.
On its own average is a useless stat.

 

[Pete Rose]

[MENTION=142765]King-Misbah[/MENTION] [MENTION=148136]Sadozai[/MENTION]
Top 25 ODI players according to Avg*SR
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Rank [/td][td]Player [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]Avg*SR [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1 [/td][td]V Kohli [/td][td]222 [/td][td]59.5 [/td][td]92.66 [/td][td]5513.27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2 [/td][td]AB de Villiers [/td][td]228 [/td][td]53.5 [/td][td]101.09 [/td][td]5408.32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3 [/td][td]JM Bairstow [/td][td]54 [/td][td]48.02 [/td][td]104.56 [/td][td]5020.97 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4 [/td][td]JC Buttler [/td][td]122 [/td][td]39.7 [/td][td]116.97 [/td][td]4643.71 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5 [/td][td]MS Dhoni [/td][td]337 [/td][td]51.04 [/td][td]87.72 [/td][td]4477.23 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 [/td][td]HM Amla [/td][td]173 [/td][td]49.97 [/td][td]89.24 [/td][td]4459.32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7 [/td][td]JE Root [/td][td]121 [/td][td]51.52 [/td][td]86.43 [/td][td]4452.87 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8 [/td][td]Babar Azam [/td][td]58 [/td][td]51.87 [/td][td]84.56 [/td][td]4386.13 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9 [/td][td]S Dhawan [/td][td]121 [/td][td]45.65 [/td][td]93.69 [/td][td]4276.95 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]10 [/td][td]RG Sharma [/td][td]199 [/td][td]48.05 [/td][td]88.68 [/td][td]4261.07 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11 [/td][td]IVA Richards [/td][td]187 [/td][td]47 [/td][td]90.2 [/td][td]4239.40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]12 [/td][td]MEK Hussey [/td][td]185 [/td][td]48.15 [/td][td]87.16 [/td][td]4196.75 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]13 [/td][td]DA Warner [/td][td]106 [/td][td]43.43 [/td][td]96.55 [/td][td]4193.17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]14 [/td][td]Q de Kock [/td][td]100 [/td][td]43.85 [/td][td]94.16 [/td][td]4128.92 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]15 [/td][td]Zaheer Abbas [/td][td]62 [/td][td]47.62 [/td][td]84.8 [/td][td]4038.18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]16 [/td][td]F du Plessis [/td][td]128 [/td][td]45.26 [/td][td]88.45 [/td][td]4003.25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]17 [/td][td]LRPL Taylor [/td][td]213 [/td][td]47.88 [/td][td]83.13 [/td][td]3980.26 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]18 [/td][td]MG Bevan [/td][td]232 [/td][td]53.58 [/td][td]74.16 [/td][td]3973.49 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]19 [/td][td]IJL Trott [/td][td]68 [/td][td]51.25 [/td][td]77.06 [/td][td]3949.33 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]20 [/td][td]JJ Roy [/td][td]70 [/td][td]37.85 [/td][td]104.23 [/td][td]3945.11 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]21 [/td][td]GJ Maxwell [/td][td]90 [/td][td]32.31 [/td][td]121.64 [/td][td]3930.19 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]22 [/td][td]DA Miller [/td][td]116 [/td][td]38.25 [/td][td]101.76 [/td][td]3892.32 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]23 [/td][td]SR Tendulkar [/td][td]463 [/td][td]44.83 [/td][td]86.23 [/td][td]3865.69 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]24 [/td][td]KS Williamson [/td][td]135 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]83.2 [/td][td]3827.20 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]25 [/td][td]L Klusener [/td][td]171 [/td][td]41.1 [/td][td]89.91 [/td][td]3695.30 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

While everyone truly recognizes Viv Richards, not enough people appreciate how well Zander played the one day game.