Has Ravichandran Ashwin surpassed Anil Kumble and Harbhajan Singh as the best ever Indian spinner?

[Slog]

Discuss.

Asides from the wicket tally Ofcourse because wel he has played fewer matches but there is enough of a sample set now. .

Bhajji says that it's due to the pitches Ashwin gets and if he and Kumble got same pitches they would have superior records

 

[ali ray]

No Harbajan is way way better than ashwin, at least he took 5fers in away countries, while ashwin is home track bully

 

[jnaveen1980]

At home grounds he has surpassed both. Kumble benefitted from dug up pitches in the mid 90s under Wadekar/Azhar. Overseas he is behind both.Not that Bhajji was outstanding. At home grounds he is probably the best Indian bowler ever even at this stage.

 

[Slog]

No Harbajan is way way better than ashwin, at least he took 5fers in away countries, while ashwin is home track bully

What s bhajjis away record

I know Kumble was largely a failure in away conditions but not sure about Bhajji

 

[jnaveen1980]

What s bhajjis away record

I know Kumble was largely a failure in away conditions but not sure about Bhajji

Kumble is hardly a failure overseas

 

[ali ray]

Slog's Avatar
Slog 22.6 average in england, 33 average in australia, 38 average in southafrica

 

[LastManstanding]

Bhajji yes, Kumble no.

Bhajji's peak lasted for two years. Though he did pick wickets in India, he wasn't consistent enough.

Kumble improved a lot in 2000s and with the addition of googly in his armour he started picking more wickets overseas.

 

[jeetu]

Not much to chhose from in away record.
[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Gupte [/td][td]1953-1959 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]28.52 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]74.4 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Chandrasekhar [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]32.66 [/td][td]2.89 [/td][td]67.7 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Ashwin [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]33.23 [/td][td]3.2 [/td][td]62.1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Bedi [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]33.72 [/td][td]2.37 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EAS Prasanna [/td][td]1962-1978 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]94 [/td][td]33.85 [/td][td]2.49 [/td][td]81.4 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1990-2008 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]269 [/td][td]35.85 [/td][td]2.88 [/td][td]74.5 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh [/td][td]1998-2015 [/td][td]48 [/td][td]152 [/td][td]38.9 [/td][td]3.06 [/td][td]76.2 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MH Mankad [/td][td]1946-1955 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]59 [/td][td]42.42 [/td][td]2.17 [/td][td]117.2 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RJ Shastri [/td][td]1981-1992 [/td][td]42 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]42.85 [/td][td]2.42 [/td][td]106.1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Venkataraghavan [/td][td]1967-1983 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]44.4 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]106.4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Slog]

Kumble is hardly a failure overseas

His away average nearing 40 suggests that

In England, Pakistan, NZ, Australia and SL he averaged around 40 or higher

In later half of his career he had some respectable returns but nothing you would expect from a great spinner

 

[Zak_Fan]

Ashwin is on his way to become India's greatest spinner.

 

[Boxer]

As a batsman --> Yes

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Bedi was best overseas spinner if you don't count Pak , Kumble from 2002 England series was good if you don't count Pak 2006 series.

 

[leatherface58]

Bedi was best overseas spinner if you don't count Pak , Kumble from 2002 England series was good if you don't count Pak 2006 series.

Will still pick Ashwin/Harbhajan/Kumble over Bedi simply because Bedi was a total liability in the field and could not hold a bat to save his life. That attitude will not fly in today's test cricket.

Harbhajan, for all of his flaws, saved India when they were 15/5 with an incredible ton. Ashwin is the premier allrounder in test cricket today.

Kumble scored a ton in England when no one could.

Cannot see Bedi doing that at all.

 

[Tusker]

Not yet but he is pretty close to Harbi ... Kumble is still a mile away ... at this rate another 2-3 yrs and he will be there.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I think I would agree with Bhajji since they didn't get such rank turners as they do today in India and if they did, it surely wasn't as often. I mean, when guys like Dean Elgar take 4fers, it really gets you thinking about the quality of the pitches, doesn't it?

 

[samplepiece]

I think I would agree with Bhajji since they didn't get such rank turners as they do today in India and if they did, it surely wasn't as often. I mean, when guys like Dean Elgar take 4fers, it really gets you thinking about the quality of the pitches, doesn't it?

In how many matches did Dean Elgar take 4fers? How many spinners of Dean Elgar's calibre have taken 4fers since the South Africa series? Just because South Africa got 2 rank turners does not make every pitch that has been laid out for test cricket India since a rank turner.

 

[ExpressPacer]

In how many matches did Dean Elgar take 4fers? How many spinners of Dean Elgar's calibre have taken 4fers since the South Africa series? Just because South Africa got 2 rank turners does not make every pitch that has been laid out for test cricket India since a rank turner.

All I'm saying is that pitches in India are usually rank turners, one at least in three matches which has been a great help in Ravi Ashwin having done as well as he has. We will speak of him having surpassed Bhajji once he performs outside India and Kumble once he picks up 600+ wickets.

 

[troodon]

In how many matches did Dean Elgar take 4fers? How many spinners of Dean Elgar's calibre have taken 4fers since the South Africa series? Just because South Africa got 2 rank turners does not make every pitch that has been laid out for test cricket India since a rank turner.

People just remember the 2 rank turners that SA got and conveniently forget the current England series and even the NZ series (one of the test was a green wicket where Bhuvi Kumar destroyed Kiwis).

To me Ashwin is far more lethal than Kumble and Harbhajan ever was.

Kumble deceived the batsman with his pace and on Day-5 pitches with uneven bounce, he was deadly.

Bhajji was a decent spinner. Played a good supporting role to Kumble.

Ashwin has every trick in his armlury, has far more variety and looks like taking wicket almost every ball. Its a rare quality in any Indian bowler.

Not to forget, Ashwin is a much better batsman than both Kumble and Bhajji. The latter are good for 20-30 runs on a good day. Ashwin can score hundred on a good day.

 

[umerz]

I dont remember Ashwin doing anything in tests away from home against strong test nations

 

[troodon]

I dont remember Ashwin doing anything in tests away from home against strong test nations

The sample set is too small for Ashwin.

MS Dhoni preferred Jadeja over Ashwin in over seas tests. Ashwin was a back up to Jaddu when India tours.

Only in the last 1 year, Ashwin clearly announced himself as the leader of Indian spin attack. Before that, it was a toss up mostly between Jaddu/Ashwin/Ojha/Mishra etc with Jaddu slightly a head of the pack.

 

[Buffet]

He has more variety than both. Right now, I don't see him finishing his career below Harbhajan. Kumble will require more work from him.

Look where batsman is playing him and direction of ball. Top class stuff. It's rare to see a good batsman deceived by such a big margin when playing on backfoot.

 

[Slog]

I dont remember Ashwin doing anything in tests away from home against strong test nations

He has a long career to go

Let's see how he does over his next set of overseas tours

If he doesn't perform well in those then yeah it's fair to say that he is a home bully.

Id say same with both Ashwin abroad and Kohli in England. They are far superior players now (even at home) then they were a few years ago so there is every chance they will fix the holes in their records

 

[New Yorker]

Discuss.

Asides from the wicket tally Ofcourse because wel he has played fewer matches but there is enough of a sample set now. .

Bhajji says that it's due to the pitches Ashwin gets and if he and Kumble got same pitches they would have superior records

Longevity is an achievement in and of itself, so it's tricky with Kumble, but.

Yes.

Soon, a more relevant comparison will be with Murli.

 

[Abdullah719]

He has more variety than both. Right now, I don't see him finishing his career below Harbhajan. Kumble will require more work from him.

Look where batsman is playing him and direction of ball. Top class stuff. It's rare to see a good batsman deceived by such a big margin when playing on backfoot.

View attachment 70939

Haven't seen much of the series - is that a conventional leg-spinner? Does he bowl it often? Surely good batsmen can pick it...

 

[JattMaula]

Haven't seen much of the series - is that a conventional leg-spinner? Does he bowl it often? Surely good batsmen can pick it...

That was variation that nearly destroyed his(Ashwin) career - The carrom ball.

 

[Abdullah719]

That was variation that nearly destroyed his(Ashwin) career - The carrom ball.

Ah yes. Forgot about that. Thanks.

 

[shaz619]

Kumble? Are you serious?

And it's hard to pick between ashwin ansd harbajhan when it comes to javelin

 

[The_Odd_One]

For me, he is better than both Kumble (only world class in India) and Harbhajan (worst bowler to have taken 400 test wickets).

 

[Varun]

Harbhajan was as overrated as they come.

Ashwin has shaded him already. I'm sure come our next cycle of overseas tours, he'll do well with both bat and ball (though not as prodigiously as in India).

 

[soso_killer]

I don't know about stats but Harbhajan came close to bowling his side to a series win in South Africa. Ashwin is a long way away from that.
It's all well and good dominating Western nations and an incompetent Sri Lankan side in Asia.
True test lies away from his comfort zone, only then will we have any measure of the man.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Surpassed Harbhajan as a better performer at home pitches but away Harbhajan was involved in some crucial wins. Be it Hamilton '09 test or Durban '11.

As far as Kumble is concerned, Ashwin has become as important as Kumble was for us but again, needs to do more away. He's made a start with SL and WI, next is SA.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He's only a conventional offspinner. We shouldn't expect miracles from him in OZ/ENG/SA etc. where he should take on the containing role.

 

[Slog]

Surpassed Harbhajan as a better performer at home pitches but away Harbhajan was involved in some crucial wins. Be it Hamilton '09 test or Durban '11.

As far as Kumble is concerned, Ashwin has become as important as Kumble was for us but again, needs to do more away. He's made a start with SL and WI, next is SA.

I never knew but was surprised to see Kumble struggled in SL and Pak as well generally (well Pak 2006 had terrible pitches to be fair)

 

[jnaveen1980]

Let us not forget Muralitharan has an average of 45 in India.

 

[Yossarian]

Not much to chhose from in away record.
[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Gupte [/td][td]1953-1959 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]28.52 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]74.4 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Chandrasekhar [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]32.66 [/td][td]2.89 [/td][td]67.7 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Ashwin [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]33.23 [/td][td]3.2 [/td][td]62.1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Bedi [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]33.72 [/td][td]2.37 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EAS Prasanna [/td][td]1962-1978 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]94 [/td][td]33.85 [/td][td]2.49 [/td][td]81.4 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1990-2008 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]269 [/td][td]35.85 [/td][td]2.88 [/td][td]74.5 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh [/td][td]1998-2015 [/td][td]48 [/td][td]152 [/td][td]38.9 [/td][td]3.06 [/td][td]76.2 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MH Mankad [/td][td]1946-1955 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]59 [/td][td]42.42 [/td][td]2.17 [/td][td]117.2 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RJ Shastri [/td][td]1981-1992 [/td][td]42 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]42.85 [/td][td]2.42 [/td][td]106.1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Venkataraghavan [/td][td]1967-1983 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]44.4 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]106.4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

From the above, SP Gupte appears to be way better than the others.

Also don't forget, this would be in the days of no Pakistan, no Bangladesh, no Sri Lanka (ie no 'away' subcontinental conditions), no Zimbabwe and no India v South Africa, a time when Indian & Pakistani cricketers were treated as 2nd class (remember what Gavaskar has said - and that was in the 70's and 80's - and even in 2008 when he made the comment "Millions of Indians want to know if it [match referee Mike Procter's verdict against Harbhajan Singh] was a 'white man' taking the 'white man's' word against that of the 'brown man'!)

So if SP Gupte's away figures were still that good in the 50's despite all that was stacked against the Indians, then imagine how good he would be today with the BCCI ruling the world of cricket.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

I never knew but was surprised to see Kumble struggled in SL and Pak as well generally (well Pak 2006 had terrible pitches to be fair)

Pak and SL also had a solid batting unit in the last decade to be fair.

 

[jeetu]

From the above, SP Gupte appears to be way better than the others.

Also don't forget, this would be in the days of no Pakistan, no Bangladesh, no Sri Lanka (ie no 'away' subcontinental conditions), no Zimbabwe and no India v South Africa, a time when Indian & Pakistani cricketers were treated as 2nd class (remember what Gavaskar has said - and that was in the 70's and 80's - and even in 2008 when he made the comment "Millions of Indians want to know if it [match referee Mike Procter's verdict against Harbhajan Singh] was a 'white man' taking the 'white man's' word against that of the 'brown man'!)

So if SP Gupte's away figures were still that good in the 50's despite all that was stacked against the Indians, then imagine how good he would be today with the BCCI ruling the world of cricket.

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Subhash Gupte [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Inns [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]overall [/td][td]1951-1961 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]149 [/td][td]29.55 [/td][td]75.7 [/td][td]12 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Australia [/td][td]1956-1956 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]32.87 [/td][td]72.3 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v England [/td][td]1951-1961 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]37.62 [/td][td]81.6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v New Zealand [/td][td]1955-1956 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]19.67 [/td][td]62.9 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Pakistan [/td][td]1952-1961 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]25.05 [/td][td]80.9 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v West Indies [/td][td]1953-1959 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]35.02 [/td][td]78.6 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in England [/td][td]1959-1959 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]34.64 [/td][td]70.4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in India [/td][td]1951-1961 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]84 [/td][td]30.34 [/td][td]76.7 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Pakistan [/td][td]1955-1955 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]22.66 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in West Indies [/td][td]1953-1953 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]29.22 [/td][td]73.2 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home [/td][td]1951-1961 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]84 [/td][td]30.34 [/td][td]76.7 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away [/td][td]1953-1959 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]28.52 [/td][td]74.4 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

He was first great subcontinent leggie. Why he didn't play much is beyond me.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Statistics from the past cannot directly be compared with present stats. It all depends on how good the opposition was at the time. Lot of intangible factors that would play a role. With one dayers, T20 game has evolved a lot. It is far more competitive, approach is different, strategy is different, even tailenders bat very well these days.

This is the list of batsmen Ashwin dismissed

This is the list of batsmen Gupte dismissed

 

[Ab Fan]

Should be underachiever if he doesn't surpass both of them.

I can think of him ending up as good a bowler as Swann( he was more all-round but Ashwin's dominating ability is unbelievable).

As a batsmen he is ahead of two anyways.

500 wickets and 5000 runs is what he can reach to if he maintains his form and fitness till late 30s.

 

[samplepiece]

All I'm saying is that pitches in India are usually rank turners, one at least in three matches which has been a great help in Ravi Ashwin having done as well as he has. We will speak of him having surpassed Bhajji once he performs outside India and Kumble once he picks up 600+ wickets.

Which is not true. Only 2 rank turners that RSA were dished out of 11 tests we have played so far against SA, NZ and Eng at home recently. Doesnt conform to my definition of 'usually'.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

Icc player ratings are a good indicator for comparing players across decades as it takes in account the rating of the batsman dismissed at the time etc. And looking at those rating he has easily surpassed Harbhajan. If he plays for another 3-4 years as similar level or even if a biut below will be ahead of Kumble as well.

 

[Ismailtoca]

imo Harbajan was not a good bowler at all, and Ashwin has surpassed him a long time ago.

Additionally, I think Kumble is overrated. However, he did manage to take 600+ test wickets which is obviously something. However, if Ashwin manages to take another 150 wkts or so (and reach 400 wkts), while keeping his superior average, I think Ashwin piques out Kumble as well

 

[Bilal7]

Not much to chhose from in away record.
[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Gupte [/td][td]1953-1959 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]28.52 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]74.4 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Chandrasekhar [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]32.66 [/td][td]2.89 [/td][td]67.7 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Ashwin [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]33.23 [/td][td]3.2 [/td][td]62.1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Bedi [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]33.72 [/td][td]2.37 [/td][td]85 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EAS Prasanna [/td][td]1962-1978 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]94 [/td][td]33.85 [/td][td]2.49 [/td][td]81.4 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1990-2008 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]269 [/td][td]35.85 [/td][td]2.88 [/td][td]74.5 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh [/td][td]1998-2015 [/td][td]48 [/td][td]152 [/td][td]38.9 [/td][td]3.06 [/td][td]76.2 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MH Mankad [/td][td]1946-1955 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]59 [/td][td]42.42 [/td][td]2.17 [/td][td]117.2 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RJ Shastri [/td][td]1981-1992 [/td][td]42 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]42.85 [/td][td]2.42 [/td][td]106.1 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Venkataraghavan [/td][td]1967-1983 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]44.4 [/td][td]2.5 [/td][td]106.4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Could you post their stats in England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies?

 

[jeetu]

Could you post their stats in England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and West Indies?

Bowling figures of Indian Spinners in Non Asian countries. (Min 10 wickets)

In England
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Maninder Singh [/td][td]1986-1986 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]15.58 [/td][td]1.63 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ghulam Ahmed [/td][td]1952-1952 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]24.73 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MH Mankad [/td][td]1946-1952 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]33.9 [/td][td]2.16 [/td][td]93.8 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Chandrasekhar [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]33.96 [/td][td]2.72 [/td][td]74.8 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Gupte [/td][td]1959-1959 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]34.64 [/td][td]2.94 [/td][td]70.4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DR Doshi [/td][td]1982-1982 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]2.89 [/td][td]72.5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Bedi [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]38.08 [/td][td]2.54 [/td][td]89.9 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Venkataraghavan [/td][td]1967-1979 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]41.05 [/td][td]2.58 [/td][td]95.2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1990-2007 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]41.41 [/td][td]2.84 [/td][td]87.4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh [/td][td]2002-2011 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]49.78 [/td][td]3.39 [/td][td]88 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EAS Prasanna [/td][td]1967-1974 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]58.08 [/td][td]2.87 [/td][td]121.2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RJ Shastri [/td][td]1982-1990 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]70.63 [/td][td]2.65 [/td][td]159.4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

In Australia
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RJ Shastri [/td][td]1985-1992 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]26.31 [/td][td]1.97 [/td][td]79.8 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Bedi [/td][td]1968-1978 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]27.51 [/td][td]2.41 [/td][td]68.3 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]NS Yadav [/td][td]1981-1986 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]28.13 [/td][td]2.19 [/td][td]76.9 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Chandrasekhar [/td][td]1967-1978 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]30.27 [/td][td]2.69 [/td][td]67.4 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EAS Prasanna [/td][td]1967-1978 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]31.12 [/td][td]2.26 [/td][td]82.6 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1999-2008 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]37.73 [/td][td]3.46 [/td][td]65.3 [/td][td]4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DR Doshi [/td][td]1981-1981 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]40 [/td][td]2.41 [/td][td]99.2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MH Mankad [/td][td]1947-1948 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]52.5 [/td][td]2.71 [/td][td]116 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Ashwin [/td][td]2011-2015 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]54.71 [/td][td]3.38 [/td][td]97 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

In South Africa
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1992-2007 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]32.02 [/td][td]2.26 [/td][td]84.7 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh [/td][td]2001-2011 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]3.19 [/td][td]63.7 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

In West Indies
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]R Ashwin [/td][td]2016-2016 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]23.17 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]46.2 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh [/td][td]2002-2011 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]36 [/td][td]25.86 [/td][td]2.76 [/td][td]56.1 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SP Gupte [/td][td]1953-1953 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]29.22 [/td][td]2.39 [/td][td]73.2 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SB Joshi [/td][td]1997-1997 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]30.09 [/td][td]2.75 [/td][td]65.5 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Chandrasekhar [/td][td]1976-1976 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]31.23 [/td][td]3.25 [/td][td]57.5 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1997-2006 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]31.28 [/td][td]2.91 [/td][td]64.4 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Arshad Ayub [/td][td]1989-1989 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]32.21 [/td][td]2.62 [/td][td]73.6 [/td][td]2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Bedi [/td][td]1971-1976 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]33.69 [/td][td]2.17 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Mishra [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]34.5 [/td][td]3.56 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SA Durani [/td][td]1962-1971 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]38.05 [/td][td]2.62 [/td][td]87.1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EAS Prasanna [/td][td]1962-1976 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]42.5 [/td][td]2.54 [/td][td]100.2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]S Venkataraghavan [/td][td]1971-1983 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]39 [/td][td]43.58 [/td][td]2.58 [/td][td]101.1 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RJ Shastri [/td][td]1983-1989 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]47.7 [/td][td]2.69 [/td][td]106.1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MH Mankad [/td][td]1953-1953 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]53.06 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]138 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

In New Zealand
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RG Nadkarni [/td][td]1968-1968 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]17.92 [/td][td]1.35 [/td][td]79.5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RJ Shastri [/td][td]1981-1981 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]18.46 [/td][td]1.88 [/td][td]58.8 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]EAS Prasanna [/td][td]1968-1976 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]35 [/td][td]19.25 [/td][td]2.3 [/td][td]50.1 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Harbhajan Singh [/td][td]1998-2009 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]24.19 [/td][td]2.37 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Bedi [/td][td]1968-1976 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]24.65 [/td][td]1.92 [/td][td]76.8 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BS Chandrasekhar [/td][td]1976-1976 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]26.72 [/td][td]2.45 [/td][td]65.3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Kumble [/td][td]1994-1999 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]40.27 [/td][td]2.31 [/td][td]104.4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[jeetu]

Ashwin's Test Record

[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td] Ashwin [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][td]5W [/td][td]10W [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]overall [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]43 [/td][td]247 [/td][td]24.22 [/td][td]2.91 [/td][td]49.8 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Australia [/td][td]2011-2015 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]50 [/td][td]34.64 [/td][td]2.98 [/td][td]69.7 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Bangladesh [/td][td]2015-2015 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]3.06 [/td][td]37.2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v England [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]33.59 [/td][td]2.89 [/td][td]69.6 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v New Zealand [/td][td]2012-2016 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]45 [/td][td]15.91 [/td][td]3.03 [/td][td]31.4 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v South Africa [/td][td]2013-2015 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]14.61 [/td][td]2.19 [/td][td]40 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v Sri Lanka [/td][td]2015-2015 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]18.09 [/td][td]3.3 [/td][td]32.8 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]v West Indies [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]51 [/td][td]22.15 [/td][td]3.02 [/td][td]43.8 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Australia [/td][td]2011-2015 [/td][td]6 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]54.71 [/td][td]3.38 [/td][td]97 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Bangladesh [/td][td]2015-2015 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]3.06 [/td][td]37.2 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in England [/td][td]2014-2014 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]33.66 [/td][td]2.84 [/td][td]71 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in India [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]180 [/td][td]20.87 [/td][td]2.76 [/td][td]45.2 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in South Africa [/td][td]2013-2013 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]0 [/td][td]- [/td][td]2.57 [/td][td]- [/td][td]0 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in Sri Lanka [/td][td]2015-2015 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]18.09 [/td][td]3.3 [/td][td]32.8 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]in West Indies [/td][td]2016-2016 [/td][td]4 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]23.17 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]46.2 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]0 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]home [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]180 [/td][td]20.87 [/td][td]2.76 [/td][td]45.2 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]away [/td][td]2011-2016 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]33.23 [/td][td]3.2 [/td][td]62.1 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]1 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[Mainul]

I am not sure whether Bhajj and Ashwin chucks or not.But i have suspicion.That's why Kumble is way above them in my eyes.

 

[Bilal7]

Thanks, jeetu bhai. Bedi is quite possibly India's best spinner ever. Has a much more balanced record than the other three spinners mentioned here.

 

[Bilal7]

I am not sure whether Bhajj and Ashwin chucks or not.But i have suspicion.That's why Kumble is way above them in my eyes.

Ashwin has openly admitted to chucking in the past, in a domestic T20 league, IIRC.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

Ashwin has openly admitted to chucking in the past, in a domestic T20 league, IIRC.

He tried copying Narine's action as he felt if Narine can bowl like that so could he. Once Narine got warned he stopped as well. I don't think Ashwin current action is bad Harbhajan on the other hand.

 

[Mainul]

Ashwin has openly admitted to chucking in the past, in a domestic T20 league, IIRC.

Really? If he chucks in domestics he must have done the same in international also. ICC should have tested Ashwin to clear the fog about him

 

[Bilal7]

He tried copying Narine's action as he felt if Narine can bowl like that so could he. Once Narine got warned he stopped as well. I don't think Ashwin current action is bad Harbhajan on the other hand.

Not saying anything about his current action but it does speak volumes of Ashwin's character that he intentionally went out and did something that he knew was wrong.

Harbhajjan was just doing his job and the ICC let him get on with it so that's at least understandable.

 

[Bilal7]

Really? If he chucks in domestics he must have done the same in international also. ICC should have tested Ashwin to clear the fog about him

Definitely. They should have tested all the top spinners in the world.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Definitely. They should have tested all the top spinners in the world.

Nonsense.

They tested those who were "obviously chucking" to the naked eye.

Ashwin chucked in "one game" to show that he could do it too. But when he did it, everybody became petulant and indignant that he is a chucker.

However when Ajmal, Narine or Harbhajan were potentially doing it, they were "well that's just the way they bowl".

What a load of rubbish.

You either chuck or you don't.

End of story.

 

[KhalidRafi]

He's surpassed Harbhajan easily who wasn't particularly great to begin with. Don't think he's surpassed Kumble. And he's still too much of a home track bully. Needs to prove himself abroad to truly be considered among the greats.

 

[Bilal7]

He's surpassed Harbhajan easily who wasn't particularly great to begin with. Don't think he's surpassed Kumble. And he's still too much of a home track bully. Needs to prove himself abroad to truly be considered among the greats.

Bhajjan was a very tricky bowler to face at home, as Ponting would testify. Ashwin probably is better though.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Second best spinner from Asia after in terms of impact.

 

[Sin Nombre]

Nonsense.

They tested those who were "obviously chucking" to the naked eye.

Ashwin chucked in "one game" to show that he could do it too. But when he did it, everybody became petulant and indignant that he is a chucker.

However when Ajmal, Narine or Harbhajan were potentially doing it, they were "well that's just the way they bowl".

What a load of rubbish.

You either chuck or you don't.

End of story.

Ashwin is a good Indian bowler so obviously he chucks.


The ironic thing is his control has improved as his bowling arm has gotten dead straight now.

Very good discussion on the changes in Ashwin's setup on the guardian here

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...ndia-jadeja-jayant-dominance#comment-89332467
[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION]

 

[Thivagar]

That was variation that nearly destroyed his(Ashwin) career - The carrom ball.

That's his leg break, not his carrom ball. He bowls it from front of his hand so it looks like his carrom ball.

 

[Thivagar]

Second best spinner from Asia after in terms of impact.

I can't rate him above Kumble considering batsmen now a days can't play spin like their predecessors.

Bhajji = Ashwin < Kumble.

 

[EliteCynical]

Ashwin is a good Indian bowler so obviously he chucks.


The ironic thing is his control has improved as his bowling arm has gotten dead straight now.

Very good discussion on the changes in Ashwin's setup on the guardian here

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...ndia-jadeja-jayant-dominance#comment-89332467
[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION]

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Ashwin has openly admitted to chucking in the past, in a domestic T20 league, IIRC.

Tbh Ashwin openly admitted it, even during the Asia cup tournament, was it? He was quite obvious.

But then anyone who followed it could have seen, his intent wasn't to cheat but just to highlight how chuckers like Ajmal, Senanyake etc. were getting away by flouting the rules.

And voila, one by one they all disappeared from the scene.

 

[EliteCynical]

Discuss.

Asides from the wicket tally Ofcourse because wel he has played fewer matches but there is enough of a sample set now. .

Bhajji says that it's due to the pitches Ashwin gets and if he and Kumble got same pitches they would have superior records

It is a difficult question, but one thing is for sure. Ashwin + DRS > (Kumble + Harbhajan). DRS is is Deadly Review System for Ash. If India persist with DRS, Ashwin is gonna get a lot more wickets.

 

[Madplayer]

Tbh Ashwin openly admitted it, even during the Asia cup tournament, was it? He was quite obvious.

But then anyone who followed it could have seen, his intent wasn't to cheat but just to highlight how chuckers like Ajmal, Senanyake etc. were getting away by flouting the rules.

And voila, one by one they all disappeared from the scene.

Well he reverted back to his old action immediately after a couple of games. He was ordinary with that illegal action.
For me he is the best spinner in the world. Add to that his batting. MVP.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Well he reverted back to his old action immediately after a couple of games. He was ordinary with that illegal action.
For me he is the best spinner in the world. Add to that his batting. MVP.

He was ordinary back then with/without illegal action tbh. His transformation in the last 2 years has been phenomenal and quite rightly he's the best spinner atm and its hard to see him get displaced from the top spot at least till India hit the road in 2018.

 

[Metron]

Forget about Bhajji or Kumble, Ashwin has the potential to come close to Murali in terms of all times wickets.
The rate at which he is going, he can.

 

[Sin Nombre]

India all time test xi spinners

first xi - Ashwin and Chandra.
second xi - Bedi and Kumble.
third xi - Gupte and Prasanna.
fourth xi - Harbhajan and Jadeja.


Not sure why Harbhajan is part of the discussion of best ever Indian spinner - any of the first 4 has a good shout. Ashwin's superior batting though already makes him India's most valuable spinner.

 

[Tusker]

Forget about Bhajji or Kumble, Ashwin has the potential to come close to Murali in terms of all times wickets.
The rate at which he is going, he can.

Doesnt have the Kohli'esque fitness to last 7-8 yrs more and is already 30. Murali had already played 75 tests and taken 420 wkts at the same age as Ashwin today.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...template=results;type=bowling;view=cumulative

Even 500 might be difficult from here on.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Yes easily if he stays fit.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Forget about Bhajji or Kumble, Ashwin has the potential to come close to Murali in terms of all times wickets.
The rate at which he is going, he can.

No way is he going to take 800 wickets. That's way too much, age is not on his side.

 

[Bilal7]

Ashwin can take a 1000 wickets in Asia and it won't change anything. We all know he's very good in Asia, his challenge is to prove to everyone that he can have some sort of impact overseas. Ajmal, Swann, Herath and Shah have all done it. Even Jadeja has a five-for in South Africa so it's not like it's impossible. Unless he does so, I will rate him lower than all four of the aforementioned spinners.

 

[Statsman]

Ashwin can take a 1000 wickets in Asia and it won't change anything. We all know he's very good in Asia, his challenge is to prove to everyone that he can have some sort of impact overseas. Ajmal, Swann, Herath and Shah have all done it. Even Jadeja has a five-for in South Africa so it's not like it's impossible. Unless he does so, I will rate him lower than all four of the aforementioned spinners.

Yasir Shah averages 40+ in England and infinity in NZ (was later dropped). He is yet to play anywhere else abroad. Not sure how he has proven himself yet. Still a long way to go in my opinion.

Ajmal averaged 112 in Australia, 59 in NZ. Even he hasn't really proven himself enough.

Of course Ashwin has poor stats in Aus (avg 53 - less than 50% of Ajmal ), decent in England (33, much better than Yasir Shah) and has done poorly in SA (similar to Shah in NZ) where he was unfortunate to miss out on the spinning track where Jadeja had a great outing. Long way to go for him as well.

 

[Metron]

Ashwin can take a 1000 wickets in Asia and it won't change anything. We all know he's very good in Asia, his challenge is to prove to everyone that he can have some sort of impact overseas. Ajmal, Swann, Herath and Shah have all done it. Even Jadeja has a five-for in South Africa so it's not like it's impossible. Unless he does so, I will rate him lower than all four of the aforementioned spinners.

I dont get belittling of Indian spinners ust for the sake of it:
Check up records of Herath and Yasir Shah.
While Ajmal feasted on Zimbabwe and West Indies for a good away record, got pummeled in Aus New zealand.
(avg of 85 there)

All subcontinental spinners suck outside Asia. All your mentioned players have sucked more or less at the same level as Ashwin, if not more.

 

[Bilal7]

I dont get belittling of Indian spinners ust for the sake of it:
Check up records of Herath and Yasir Shah.
While Ajmal feasted on Zimbabwe and West Indies for a good away record, got pummeled in Aus New zealand.
(avg of 85 there)

All subcontinental spinners suck outside Asia. All your mentioned players have sucked more or less at the same level as Ashwin, if not more.

Yasir Shah averages 40+ in England and infinity in NZ (was later dropped). He is yet to play anywhere else abroad. Not sure how he has proven himself yet. Still a long way to go in my opinion.

Ajmal averaged 112 in Australia, 59 in NZ. Even he hasn't really proven himself enough.

Of course Ashwin has poor stats in Aus (avg 53 - less than 50% of Ajmal ), decent in England (33, much better than Yasir Shah) and has done poorly in SA (similar to Shah in NZ) where he was unfortunate to miss out on the spinning track where Jadeja had a great outing. Long way to go for him as well.

Not talking about averages, I'm talking about impact. Yasir Shah won Pakistan two games in England, just this summer. Ajmal has a 10-fer in South Africa and a five-for in England. Herath and Swann have very good performances in South Africa and Herath has a five-for in Australia. All four of these guys have shown that they can thrive away from the subcontinent.

In comparison, Ashwin has barely done anything of note in Australia, England, New Zealand or South Africa. He's been smashed, dropped and taken advantage of in these countries and he has a whole lot to prove.

 

[Metron]

Not talking about averages, I'm talking about impact. Yasir Shah won Pakistan two games in England, just this summer. Ajmal has a 10-fer in South Africa and a five-for in England. Herath and Swann have very good performances in South Africa and Herath has a five-for in Australia. All four of these guys have shown that they can thrive away from the subcontinent.

In comparison, Ashwin has barely done anything of note in Australia, England, New Zealand or South Africa. He's been smashed, dropped and taken advantage of in these countries and he has a whole lot to prove.

So winning a one game and get spanked all around the park in all other games makes you a far better bowler!
By that logic Afridi is the greatest batsman /bowler of all times period!

 

[Sin Nombre]

So winning a one game and get spanked all around the park in all other games makes you a far better bowler!
By that logic Afridi is the greatest batsman /bowler of all times period!

bilal is umar akmal player comparison thread when it comes to Indian players. It is a good sign.

 

[Bilal7]

So winning a one game and get spanked all around the park in all other games makes you a far better bowler!
By that logic Afridi is the greatest batsman /bowler of all times period!

Well, Afridi certainly was a great compared to a batsman or bowler who never won his team any games and instead, was a huge liability every time he came out to bat/bowl.

Similarly, those four are comfortably ahead of Ashwin as of now.

 

[Tusker]

Well, Afridi certainly was a great compared to a batsman or bowler who never won his team any games and instead, was a huge liability every time he came out to bat/bowl.

Just curious who are these other batsmen and bowlers in comparison to Afridi ?

 

[Ab Fan]

I think he is better batsmen than Kumble and will end up as good as kumble in test cricket as well.

ATG in tests IMO.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ashwin has improved leaps and bounds as a spinner. I can even see him being successful in Australia if he bowls with this amount of control and discipline. Still a lot of cricket to be played in this series but for my money, he has already produced a match-winning performance in this test match.

 

[BlackShadow]

He may never succeed in Australia, and that says more about Aussie tracks than Ashwin in my opinion.