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Hats off to Mohammad Hafeez the survivor

Muhammad10 said:
In the "luxury" of his home conditions, Hafeez averaged 25.11 at a strike-rate of 69.96.

Poor fellow, his statistics clearly suffered due to being deprived of such a "luxury".
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Everyone knows Hafeez was genuinely bad in the early stages of his career and has improved dramatically since his return in 2013. Just that games in Pakistan are all part of the earlier Hafeez who was bad.
 
Congratulations to Hafeez for being a leading contributor to the CT 2017 disaster.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
I'm waiting for that day when people realize Babar's flaw is the exact thing that people were criticizing Hafeez for in that game.

And that was the first time I've seen people on PP criticizing a big score because it wasn't quick enough (and by no means was it particularly slow). On every other occassion it's about not playing big shots, curbing yourself and batting like Babar Azam actually does.

Where are these people when Babar Azam in every single T20 scores at match-losing SR of 120 or lower? Only then is an anchor required? If Babar does it a platform has been built and others be blamed for not scoring at 250 SR, but if others do it, they are fault and no one blame Babar for scoring 14 (21).

Yesterday there was no run rate pressure and that's when Babar decided to go for big shots and dare I say 'threw his wicket away'....
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I'm stunned you've compared Babar Azam to Mohammad Hafeez.

Hafeez isn't just being criticized for batting slowly. He's being criticized for a myriad of things including feasting on weak bowling attacks so he can once again get worked over on a pitch with swing/seam.

It's a merry-go-round of disasters. Always has been with him.

Babar Azam is a young prospect who has shown he can handle Australian conditions. While Hafeez has failed in multiple series in seaming/swinging/bouncy conditions.

People see Babar as someone who can improve his game. Hafeez is 36 for crying out loud and makes the same mistakes he did ten years ago! :))
 
kingusama92 said:
I'm stunned you've compared Babar Azam to Mohammad Hafeez.

Hafeez isn't just being criticized for batting slowly. He's being criticized for a myriad of things including feasting on weak bowling attacks so he can once again get worked over on a pitch with swing/seam.

It's a merry-go-round of disasters. Always has been with him.

Babar Azam is a young prospect who has shown he can handle Australian conditions. While Hafeez has failed in multiple series in seaming/swinging/bouncy conditions.

People see Babar as someone who can improve his game. Hafeez is 36 for crying out loud and makes the same mistakes he did ten years ago! :))
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Everybody needs to be compared to everyone else how else will you evaluate?

The point is that everyone needs to be treated on level basis and performance assessed in neutral manner.

It cannot be that if Babar plays an innings it was magnificent but if Hafeez played the same innings it was selfish.

It's even more bizzare to criticize him for playing well because he will get a chance against other teams. The logic is so warped there is nothing to say. If he plays badly he can't score even against minnows; if he plays well, it doesnt matter because you've already decided he's too bad to play.

This logic of youngster vs old guy is misplaced. Performance should be assessed for what it is. Since 2013 Hafeez's record is good enough as batsman alone, while he is in fact an all-rounder, which is very valuable.

I said this about Afridi and I'll say it here. If Hafeez took 8-0-32-1 that excuses even a first ball duck, because you'd be happy to pick a bowler who produced that result. If he scores 90 runs and does this it's extraordinary. Today the man scored 88 in a tough pitch under huge pressure and also bowled 7 overs for 21 runs and this is the response he gets. You guys are truly lacking any sense of proportion.

There is just one fixed narrative in your head and no matter what is happening in the field, your assessment seems to not be altered. Hafeez has been excellent all series both as bowler and as batsman, and someone who does that is automatically ahead of anyone who performed even much better but in only one discipline.

People can mock his choice of language, but being "blessed in all facets" is so much more valuable compared to a guy who has 0 value to the team on the day if he happens to plays a single bad stroke.
 
CricketAnalyst said:
I'm waiting for that day when people realize Babar's flaw is the exact thing that people were criticizing Hafeez for in that game.

And that was the first time I've seen people on PP criticizing a big score because it wasn't quick enough (and by no means was it particularly slow). On every other occassion it's about not playing big shots, curbing yourself and batting like Babar Azam actually does.

Where are these people when Babar Azam in every single T20 scores at match-losing SR of 120 or lower? Only then is an anchor required? If Babar does it a platform has been built and others be blamed for not scoring at 250 SR, but if others do it, they are fault and no one blame Babar for scoring 14 (21).

Yesterday there was no run rate pressure and that's when Babar decided to go for big shots and dare I say 'threw his wicket away'....
Click to expand...

Babar lost us the final two ODIs vs Australia while selfishly playing to get to his 50 and 100 respectively... he was being lauded for his efforts here
 
Black Zero said:
Q: Is it fair to compare centuries of an opener with someone bats at #6?
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Inzi has played at 3,4,5 for plenty most of his career... in which he has always preferred to play lower so that he doesn't have to face the new ball..
Combined to that, the amazing fragility that existed in a Pakistani batting lineup.. Inzi should've done better..

People criticize me because they Inzi belonged to an era of fast bowlers... well Tendulkar, Saeed Anwar, Brian Lara, Ponting are batsmen of those era that have went on to hit 20 centuries of more... so that is no excuse of scoring only 10

Combined with the fact that Inzi played in the 2000s for 7 years which is largely considered as a batting friendly decade
 
CricketAnalyst said:
Everybody needs to be compared to everyone else how else will you evaluate?

The point is that everyone needs to be treated on level basis and performance assessed in neutral manner.

It cannot be that if Babar plays an innings it was magnificent but if Hafeez played the same innings it was selfish.

It's even more bizzare to criticize him for playing well because he will get a chance against other teams. The logic is so warped there is nothing to say. If he plays badly he can't score even against minnows; if he plays well, it doesnt matter because you've already decided he's too bad to play.

This logic of youngster vs old guy is misplaced. Performance should be assessed for what it is. Since 2013 Hafeez's record is good enough as batsman alone, while he is in fact an all-rounder, which is very valuable.

I said this about Afridi and I'll say it here. If Hafeez took 8-0-32-1 that excuses even a first ball duck, because you'd be happy to pick a bowler who produced that result. If he scores 90 runs and does this it's extraordinary. Today the man scored 88 in a tough pitch under huge pressure and also bowled 7 overs for 21 runs and this is the response he gets. You guys are truly lacking any sense of proportion.

There is just one fixed narrative in your head and no matter what is happening in the field, your assessment seems to not be altered. Hafeez has been excellent all series both as bowler and as batsman, and someone who does that is automatically ahead of anyone who performed even much better but in only one discipline.

People can mock his choice of language, but being "blessed in all facets" is so much more valuable compared to a guy who has 0 value to the team on the day if he happens to plays a single bad stroke.
Click to expand...

So would India take Hafeez over Kohli/Tendulkar/Dravid because he's blessed in all facets? :))

You're comparing a 36 year old with a 22 year old prospect? It's almost the opposite end of the development curve.

Patterns started to emerge with Hafeez a long time ago.

A prospect is judged for their ability to piece together an innings and hold their own against competition because you know there is room to grow. You can work with them.

If an 18-year-old Virat Kohli started wafting away outside the off stump, would you kick him out of the team? No, you'd look at his positives and admit he has work to do because he has time on his side. Hafeez is making the same mistakes he did as an 18-year-old. That's unacceptable and is the reason he's criticized openly.

If neutrality was used without context, you'd keep giving chances to Mark Ramprakash because he dominated FC cricket. However, reality showed they weren't up to scratch against international competition.

The same applies to Hafeez.

One failed series is okay. It happens. Two failed series and you start wondering. The man has failed 2-3 times in ENG, AUS, and SA. That's as clear-cut as it gets about how he is as a batsman in seaming conditions.

And you're oddly overselling Hafeez's bowling on a turning wicket. Please go back and look at his record (post-ban) on pitches like the one he'll see against good teams. It's nothing to write home about.

Hafeez is a good player in Asia. Don't get me wrong. But the team isn't being built for that so his inclusion is utterly bemusing and his flaws remain the same as they always have.

Good for him that he performed and helped PAK win but the pattern has always been the same with him and it will continue.
 
Hawkeye said:
Lol.

Your argument would make sense if you were not advocating for Malik on the other hand, who is a bigger dud than Hafeez against any good team, or pace bowling, and 20 years of constant failures at the highest level.

Malik is king at cashing in weak opposition on low, slow pitches.

Hafeez is a free flowing bat and can play pace.
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This is becoming boring now - you come up with same factual lie every time & then I drag you to stats; only for you not to revisit that thread & open another field. For a change - why don't you put facts, figures & logic for the bold part?

As I mentioned somewhere else - don't over do things that doesn't make sense. There are enough examples in that Malik thread of what happens when the pie size becomes too big to swallow :(.
 
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CricketAnalyst said:
Everyone knows Hafeez was genuinely bad in the early stages of his career and has improved dramatically since his return in 2013. Just that games in Pakistan are all part of the earlier Hafeez who was bad.
Click to expand...

Admittedly, he hit his peak 2013 onwards. Peak of minnow bashing, that is.

Since 2013, his overall average has been 41.30, 29.53 against the stronger bowling attacks, i.e. Australia, South Africa, England and New Zealand and a whopping 49.92 against the rest of the teams, whose weaker bowling attacks he loves to feast on.

I can only describe him in three ways:

A. Minnow basher

B. FTB

C. Choker/Bottler
 
He survives for another few series with yesterday's innings. When will we get rid of this average player? :facepalm:
 
kingusama92 said:
So would India take Hafeez over Kohli/Tendulkar/Dravid because he's blessed in all facets? :))

You're comparing a 36 year old with a 22 year old prospect? It's almost the opposite end of the development curve.

Patterns started to emerge with Hafeez a long time ago.

A prospect is judged for their ability to piece together an innings and hold their own against competition because you know there is room to grow. You can work with them.

If an 18-year-old Virat Kohli started wafting away outside the off stump, would you kick him out of the team? No, you'd look at his positives and admit he has work to do because he has time on his side. Hafeez is making the same mistakes he did as an 18-year-old. That's unacceptable and is the reason he's criticized openly.

If neutrality was used without context, you'd keep giving chances to Mark Ramprakash because he dominated FC cricket. However, reality showed they weren't up to scratch against international competition.

The same applies to Hafeez.

One failed series is okay. It happens. Two failed series and you start wondering. The man has failed 2-3 times in ENG, AUS, and SA. That's as clear-cut as it gets about how he is as a batsman in seaming conditions.

And you're oddly overselling Hafeez's bowling on a turning wicket. Please go back and look at his record (post-ban) on pitches like the one he'll see against good teams. It's nothing to write home about.

Hafeez is a good player in Asia. Don't get me wrong. But the team isn't being built for that so his inclusion is utterly bemusing and his flaws remain the same as they always have.

Good for him that he performed and helped PAK win but the pattern has always been the same with him and it will continue.
Click to expand...

I am saying holding an all-rounder to the same batting standard as the guy who is supposedly the greatest batsman Pakistan has had in a decade is not wise.

If I had a choice between Dravid or Ganguly and someone who batted well AND gave good bowling performances, I would any day choose the second person. Yeah, if you are Sachin or Kohli you are more useful than a guy who would be the weakest specialist batsman (assuming Hafeez is, which is very debatable) and can also bowl an average of 8 good overs. If you aren't that good, then the person contributing in two areas is more useful, which is why SA suffered when Kallis went although his ODI batting was mediocre, and why Pakistan struggle so much replacing Abdul Razzaq, Azhar Mahmood, Shahid Afridi type players because the ability to do both is so important. Even Imad Wasim is so valuable for that exact reason.
 
Best batsman and Man of the Final in the Pakistan One Day Cup.

Expecting big things from Hafeez in the Champions Trophy...
 
Will be our best batsman after Babar Azam in the champions trophy.

Good batting tracks will suit his fluent stroke making. Plays pace bowlers with ease. Just shouldn't open.
 
lol he does not play fast bowlers with ease. Was struggling against Gabriel in the ODI series and we all saw how he did against the Aussie attack, including that flukey 70 odd where he should've been out twice.
 
This forum is so bipolar :)))

Good threads come out at a rate of knots, same Hafeez bashers become Hafeez fans all of a sudden
 
Not surpised. Its the consistency which is the problem.

But since our remaining top order goes on fishing in NZ, its acceptable.

Should have scored 300+ on this track.
 
Let's just accept this is fate. We can't do anything about it. He will stay as long as he wants. Just hope we can rid of the other seniors.
 
waleed88 said:
This forum is so bipolar :)))

Good threads come out at a rate of knots, same Hafeez bashers become Hafeez fans all of a sudden
Click to expand...

Hafeez is the new (old) Shoaib Malik.

The most polarising cricketer in the country.

He will always remain in the team.
 
waleed88 said:
This forum is so bipolar :)))

Good threads come out at a rate of knots, same Hafeez bashers become Hafeez fans all of a sudden
Click to expand...

I was not a fan of him initially but since Misbah-era our batting standards have fallen drastically and he is among few batsman who can play Sharma-ish innings on favorable tracks.
 
Said even before the series started, if Pak are to put up defendable totals or chase, Hafeez needs to step up. Don't know whether this is a match winning total, but certainly defendable.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Hafeez is the new (old) Shoaib Malik.

The most polarising cricketer in the country.

He will always remain in the team.
Click to expand...

We've got one for each condition now... Malik for Asia, Hafeez for Abroad

More often than not one of them will come off :D
 
I have been defending both Sarfaraz and Hafeez from critics over the past few days. They played so well today taking the score to 270. Although it will probably still not be enough both of them are much better then Shoaib Malik and Azhar Ali in particular. Unless their are able replacements I see no point in throwing them out of the team.
 
If he was Malik he wouldn't have taken that last ball run, in order to finish a not out, you know boost his average. King of not outs ended up with an average of 66 this way in Aus... His fans will tell you more about that
 
[MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] help me I'm going through some sort of a crisis/depression.

Do we really have to accept his greatness? Like should he actually stay on now?
 
Legend.Where would we be without him..

On a serious note,from the scorecards,he seemed to have accelerated in the last over today.Before the last over he was 59 off 74 balls.That’s not particularly good.Was it an issue with the pitch or was Hafeez his usual selfish self?

Anyway,he has an 81 and a 60 on this tour now.No way he will be dropped.
 
Can't blame Hafeez too much on this tour. Easily our best batsman and then Fakhar. Babar Azam has batted like a debutant on this tour.
 
This knock today has kept his position safe for a while. Was a good knock but will affect us in the future.
 
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