Have England shown any improvement in spin-friendly conditions?

[The_Odd_One]

England is definitely one of the better test teams around but it is surprising to see that they have really struggled in Asia which should not be expected from a team of their caliber.

England have played 9 tests in Asia recently.

3 tests in the UAE: lost 2-0
2 test in Bangladesh: tied 1-1
4 tests in India so far: lost 3-0

That is around 9 tests in around 1 year! No other team I believe has got so many chances to play in similar conditions outside home. The only test they won against Bangladesh was a close one and could have gone either way.

Do you think England team have improved in Asian conditions or are they still the same when they started this leg of Asian tours?

Were any lessons learnt?

Will England do better in their next round of Asian tours?

Discuss.

 

[HitWicket]

I don't think the batsmen have done that poorly this tour, probably more let down by the lack of a quality spinner. Get Mason Crane fast tracked to the England lions next winter I say and start grooming him for the role.

 

[Buffet]

Playing 6-7 bowlers is a crazy idea. Eng needs to give up it's fascination to play non-specialists. Cut down with all rounders and have either batsmen or bowler playing. Two young batsmen showed that they do have talent, it's a question of giving players chances.

Two keepers & 3-4 all rounders in playing XI is just asking for trouble. It may work in certain conditions, but it's a crazy idea to play that way everywhere.

 

[Sherlock]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.​

 

[Buffet]

I don't think the batsmen have done that poorly this tour, probably more let down by the lack of a quality spinner. Get Mason Crane fast tracked to the England lions next winter I say and start grooming him for the role.

I find it hard to believe that Ali is best spinner in Eng. Yah, Rashid has evovled a bit, but Ali has been Eng's prime spinner for a while.

There was some name who did well on turning tracks in Eng. Why not pick him? Pitches in Asia will have some turn so it's not a crazy idea to pick some one who bowled well on turning tracks in domestics.

 

[Slog]

I mean they have regressed big time from their 2012 tour to Asia

In 2012:

India : 2-1 win,

in UAE : 3-0 loss but almost all games were anyone's till the last day or so. This time even though they almost nicked one game, but they got absolutely slaughtered in the next 2

 

[leg-side-flick]

England is a good team, they were ok in first two tests.... after that they lost Broad and made selection errors.... 6 bowlers and a specialist batsman playing at no.8.... 4 seamers etc

Having said that, they could have done everything right and probably still lost to Ashwin and King Kohli.... India is just miles ahead in this series....

 

[Screopho]

They should have picked one of the new upcoming young spinners and let them have a go. They would atleast have had a chance to see the conditions, get tested and maybe come back better the next time around. English selection has been completely bizzare. Think Cook has lost all his mojo.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli is right.England batsmen don't have solid defensive technique against spin.

 

[EliteCynical]

I mean they have regressed big time from their 2012 tour to Asia

In 2012:

India : 2-1 win,

in UAE : 3-0 loss but almost all games were anyone's till the last day or so. This time even though they almost nicked one game, but they got absolutely slaughtered in the next 2

Plus they won in SL in 2012 (I think). The fact that Moen Ali was gifted 19 wickets on a platter in 2014 probably was something they could not ignore. The fact that their so called bits and pieces cricketers are actually good when the surfaces are suited to them or are even paced, is easily being ignored.

The other major thing to consider is that their performance against Bangaldesh was conveniently swept under the carpet and they keep harping on "losing the key moments" like Kohli's catch, vijay's stumping etc. Hindsight is 20-20, but their selection has been abysmal.

1. Clearly managment doesn't think Moen and Rashid have it in them like Swann and Monty in 2012, so pack the side with bits and pieces all rounders like Woakes

2. Clearly, the management doesn't think Ballance and Duckett are any good, else they would have been playing a game as specialist batsmen.

In my book, I will play Broad and Stokes as seamers and play Ansari in the next game as the third spinner and get in Ballance or Duckett, thus dropping Woakes, Anderson and Ball.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Their batting depth kept them within striking distance just like I thought it would. They've competed well but lack the spinners. Apart from Broad their pacers have been toothless, Wood was a huge loss.

 

[Robert]

Were any lessons learnt?

No.

But to be fair there is little you can do if you have no test quality spinners any more.

 

[Robert]

1. Clearly managment doesn't think Moen and Rashid have it in them like Swann and Monty in 2012, so pack the side with bits and pieces all rounders like Woakes

Woakes is not a bitsa. He is a test class bowler who happens to be good enough to score test fifties. Stokes is not a bitsa. He is a test batter who is a capable fourth test seamer. Only Moeen is a bitsa - not quite a test batter or a test bowler.

 

[Pantani]

They might win a series in Sri Lanka, especially if Herath is retired by their next tour

 

[nighthawk23]

Even when they won 2-1 in 2012 versus India, they got smashed in the first test and it took the performance of a lifetime from Panesar and an incompetent Nagpur curator to see them through.

 

[Varun]

They can begin by not selecting the bits and pieces types. They've done it for years, and it has rarely worked.

 

[EliteCynical]

Woakes is not a bitsa. He is a test class bowler who happens to be good enough to score test fifties. Stokes is not a bitsa. He is a test batter who is a capable fourth test seamer. Only Moeen is a bitsa - not quite a test batter or a test bowler.

I did not mean Stokes and I think in Asian conditions Woakes can be classified as a bitsa because his batting leaves a lot to be desired and is hardly used as a bowler when playing 3/4 seamers because Cook does not know what to do with him.

No offense regarding Woakes being bitsa. Same applies to Jadeja and Jayant when they travel to England. The genuine bowler and more than handy batsman (and vice versa) in all conditions is an oxymoron which only Stokes & Ashwin seem to fulfill these days.I have not seen enough of Shakib in alien conditions to comment.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

On the batting front they can definitely pose a challenge in these conditions, they just lack the bowlers. If they get a test class spinner and get their combination right, they could definitely win a few.

 

[MMHS]

I don't think, ENG had much to do either to be honest - hosts were far better. So far, I'll say only 2 mistakes -

1. Not trying to force the issue at Rajkot. In IND (UAE), ENG doesn't have much chance actually - lots of things had to go in their favor, starting with toss. They won that, was lucky with couple of drops, couple of close calls that could have gone either way & to their credit batted well - then got IND behind. Not many tourists will hardly find themselves in that situation against IND, in IND. I think, had that Test been 3rd or 4th Test of the Series, Cook would have been more aggressive. Like few others here, Cook (ENG team) overestimated themselves & played safe - that was a sniff of a chance to make it 4-1. At Chennai, if Virat wins the toss, Poms will chase lots of leather for 2 days & then usual tug of war before sinking down ....

2. Thinking too big of Woakes. I gave a data point which Poms here didn't take that time - instead of taking it in head, rather they took in heart - apart from that Lord's Test, Woakes had about 15 wickets in 8/9 Tests at around 50 - that too some of them playing in UK. Besides, the golden rule I follow in cricket is that your tail is only as good as a function of your top order - unless there is a set top order at one end or the top 6 tiring down the bowlers; tail depth doesn't help much. They should have dropped Woakes & play a left-arm spinner against 9 right-handers.

 

[JaDed]

Their catching hasn't been that good and they are missing Broad,other than that they have competed but last test match was just poor imo.

Chennai test will probably happen now as cyclone is done and sun is up but the pitch might not have turn as expected so they can put up a fight.(although its Ash's home ground)

 

[Markhor]

England Lions have lost 3-0 to West Indies A in the Caribbean, looking absolutely clueless against spin.

What goes on in Loughborough ? How can a country that supposedly has one of the most well resourced domestic systems in the world produce youngsters so inept against spin bowling ?

The seniors aren't great facing spin either. Sri Lanka will be licking their lips later this year when they host England.

 

[CanadianG00se]

England Lions have lost 3-0 to West Indies A in the Caribbean, looking absolutely clueless against spin.

What goes on in Loughborough ? How can a country that supposedly has one of the most well resourced domestic systems in the world produce youngsters so inept against spin bowling ?

The seniors aren't great facing spin either. Sri Lanka will be licking their lips later this year when they host England.

Even their U19 team was destroyed by an leggie while chasing a modest total. The same leggie got destroyed by India in both the games. Something tells me, English players just do not have the basics to counter spin.

 

[Markhor]

Even their U19 team was destroyed by an leggie while chasing a modest total. The same leggie got destroyed by India in both the games. Something tells me, English players just do not have the basics to counter spin.

The culture of playing and using spin just isn't there.

The county season is being increasingly pushed to the margins of the calendar to April and September when English conditions are mostly wet and overcast. That means any 65mph trundler like Darren Stevens (aged 41 yet took wickets at average of 18 last season !) armed with the Dukes ball will look devastating.

Captains don't learn how to use their spinners in an attacking role and are only brought on to give their seamers a break. That's changed a little bit with the scrapping of the toss but there's still a dearth of quality spinners that batsmen can develop experience of facing.

 

[Hasan123]

The culture of playing and using spin just isn't there.

The county season is being increasingly pushed to the margins of the calendar to April and September when English conditions are mostly wet and overcast. That means any 65mph trundler like Darren Stevens (aged 41 yet took wickets at average of 18 last season !) armed with the Dukes ball will look devastating.

Captains don't learn how to use their spinners in an attacking role and are only brought on to give their seamers a break. That's changed a little bit with the scrapping of the toss but there's still a dearth of quality spinners that batsmen can develop experience of facing.

Basically this is why England are so bad against spin. They don't get a chance to face quality spin from a young age.