Have Ramiz Raja and Wasim Khan handled the NZC and ECB withdrawal well?

[Savak]

A few select posters have criticized the duo for being emotional, angry and therefore not exhibiting the crisis management, negotiating skills, cool heads this situation demanded

Let's take a vote on this. I personally think that the situation was way above these two especially given that even IK the Prime Minister could not do anything to salvage the tour. For me both Ramiz and Wasim Khan have spoken the language and exhibited the feelings sentiments of the fans and the avg Pakistani fan and Citizen

 

[pratiktc]

They have handled it poorly.
Can still understand giving of empty statements like 'channel your anger' to motivate players and fans.

But especially Ramiz "they will hear from us", "what world are they in" and youtube/Twitter grandstanding and public posturing not needed.

Wasim Khan atleast it seems like he has been trying to do something productive by working on SL/Bang on short notice tour even though unsuccessful. Ramiz is simply playing to the gallery.

 

[sam_ahm]

Probably not. It may sound slavish but I think Pak should have considered playing the series at a neutral venue and continue to maintain good relationship with all the boards.

As of now they have spoiled relationship with NZC, they already have a spoiled relationship with BCCI, now they are critical of ECB, most likely Aussies won't come to Pakistan, so Pak may spoil that relationship as well. Basically that's 4 countries Pakistan are looking not to play bilateral against, unless they tour Pak, which as of now is unlikely.

The way Ramiz and Wasim have humiliated Zimbabwe in the past has shown their lack of maturity in dealing with boards that have good relationship and have been supportive of Pakistan cricket. A team can lose comprehensively at times, doesn't mean you end up humiliating them for no fault.

PCB hasn't had the best of relationship with Bangladesh as well, but at least it seems to be improving now.

So if you see overall, PCB is isolating themselves, which is not a good sign.

 

[Savak]

Probably not. It may sound slavish but I think Pak should have considered playing the series at a neutral venue and continue to maintain good relationship with all the boards.

As of now they have spoiled relationship with NZC, they already have a spoiled relationship with BCCI, now they are critical of ECB, most likely Aussies won't come to Pakistan, so Pak may spoil that relationship as well. Basically that's 4 countries Pakistan are looking not to play bilateral against, unless they tour Pak, which as of now is unlikely.

The way Ramiz and Wasim have humiliated Zimbabwe in the past has shown their lack of maturity in dealing with boards that have good relationship and have been supportive of Pakistan cricket. A team can lose comprehensively at times, doesn't mean you end up humiliating them for no fault.

PCB hasn't had the best of relationship with Bangladesh as well, but at least it seems to be improving now.

So if you see overall, PCB is isolating themselves, which is not a good sign.

Lol the Big 4 have thrived on the PCB desperately appeasing them at all levels. Idiocy and Stupidity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. No harm in trying a new different hardline strategy now which is probably also backed by the PM of the country

 

[sweep_shot]

Ramiz might have used some charged up words but I feel those words were justified.

Timid approach is not the way to go. Firmness is needed.

 

[ManFan]

Emotional does not equal impractical.

If you don’t showcase anger or disappointment in a situation like this, what kind of precedent does it set for an already weak board?

 

[kingusama92]

Yes.

Wasim Khan has done an exceptional job. Ramiz got a bit emotional but he too was hitting the right notes with his words.

People are not used to Pakistani leaders standing up for themselves so all of this is foreign to them. I think this is the first time Pakistan has done a good job of respecting itself as a cricketing nation.

 

[Giannis]

Yes. There's no alternative.

Also Pakistan should not tour NZ in the future.

 

[Rudi hater]

Very well indeed under the circumstances. They can't be apologetic and say yes, NZ did the right thing when quite clearly they did not.

 

[Rudi hater]

Yes. There's no alternative.

Also Pakistan should not tour NZ in the future.

Pakistan should tour NZ but do the same thing as NZ and leave on the day of match.

 

[Rana]

Very much so.

Keep up the pressure and expose ECB hypocrisy such as ‘take the knee’, BLM and gender equality etc.

 

[Rudi hater]

Yes.

Wasim Khan has done an exceptional job. Ramiz got a bit emotional but he too was hitting the right notes with his words.

People are not used to Pakistani leaders standing up for themselves so all of this is foreign to them. I think this is the first time Pakistan has done a good job of respecting itself as a cricketing nation.

Totally agree, stop appeasing. Stand up for once and stop boot licking.

 

[Rana]

Forget Hayden

Pakistan need to take Major Asif Ghafoor as their mentor and consultant for the T20 World Cup. He is someone who will drive some pride in these players before their big clashes

 

[Rudi hater]

Forget Hayden

Pakistan need to take Major Asif Ghafoor as their mentor and consultant for the T20 World Cup. He is someone who will drive some pride in these players before their big clashes

We need that quote to go with the team "We will surprise you".

 

[Rana]

We need that quote to go with the team "We will surprise you".

We won’t surprise anyone

Just go out and play as if you are possessed by a demon. Absolutely numb to fear and humiliation. This World Cup should not be a pleasant and joyful experience for those who are representing Pakistan. Distance yourself from every opponent. No need for token handshakes and national anthems etc. Turn your back to the Indian and New Zealand National anthem if you must.

 

[deep82]

Pakistan need to boycott WC match vs India or even the entire tournament to make a strong statement. That will definitely shake up ICC.

These words by Ramiz/WK won't do zilch. Within few days, everyone will forget and move on. ( except on this forum)

 

[princeuk]

Lol the Big 4 have thrived on the PCB desperately appeasing them at all levels. Idiocy and Stupidity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result. No harm in trying a new different hardline strategy now which is probably also backed by the PM of the country

This. The above poster said that its the PCB that has ruined its relationship with ECB and other boards. If thats the case then why have pakistan always bent over backwards to accomodate them and also tour England last time when COVID cases were high but no PCB doesnt want to maintain its relations with any of the the given 4 boards, its quite laughable really.

There was no other option, had this happened to india if they were in a similar position to us then the WHOLE nation would have cried foul and the ministers would have got involved all current and ex-players would have tweeted something about this incident, or would there have been a serene approach to it all? I think we all know the answer.

 

[Double Trouble]

No more nice guy attitude from the PCB

Presidential security, 400 plus police officers, full rangers task force and someone virtually wiping there backside every time the hosts needed a dump.

Rambo needs to start firing the shots now going forward.

 

[Kriketer]

Not satisfied as they didn't give a tougher response.

Some posters who are trying to encourage bend over backwards attitude are naïve. There comes a time when you have to stand for your country and this sudden departure based on bogus reports destroys reputation and credibility that Pakistan has been trying to built for years and what our people/army has paid to come out of tragic days of the past, and also all the hard work PCB has been putting through for years.

This was only politically driven so this deserves a response which will mean if you want to fool around then don't bother visiting. They cannot cheery pick when they perceive its safe and when it isn't when thousands recently who ran away from Afghanistan reached Pakistan safely and departed safely after spending days, and also all the tourist who have been visiting and experiencing a completely safe and fun journey.

I really hope in next NZ tour Pakistan just pulls out last minute before departure and just make up an excuse that based on Pak Intelligence they expect security threats since NZ has seen one of the worst attacks.

 

[DrSchultz]

Pakistan should tour NZ but do the same thing as NZ and leave on the day of match.

or send an u17 team instead that should wrap up a 5 day test in a couple of sessions. sure the sponsors would love that.

 

[DrSchultz]

+ it would be good experience for the young lads

 

[Rajdeep]

At the end of the day, how does it even matter?

Rameez Raja and Wasim Khan can say anything they want but the reality of it all is players security remains the utmost importance. They cant go against their govt's directive and tour Pakistan just bcoz Rameez/Wasim is animated in youtube.

Aust, NZ and Eng will simply not tour Pakistan and Pakistan WILL host them in UAE for future home series. This is the reality and everyone knows it. If we take the emotions out of it, rest of it is just playing to the gallery stuff.

 

[ramki]

Wasim Khan mostly did. He did the right thing a leader with the worst possible scenario can do - arrange for the safe return of NZ team and picking up the pieces. His statement yesterday was not perfect, but still mostly professional.

Ramiz raja, the Interior Minister, Inzy - all lost the plot. As an outside observer, seeing how even professional journalists react positively to Ramiz's reactions indicate that they are mirroring the feelings of the general populace - though it does not feel right.

You have had a long years of isolation from visiting foreign teams. SL and SA just visited you. You just hosted PSL successfully. So, you are on the upward ramp. You hit a snag - with NZC and ECB withdrawing.

This needed to be a waiting game. If Taliban takeover (with huge support from Pakistan state apparatus) had not happened, this NZC/ECB tour would have gone through,. Circumstances were out of the control at mere cricket level.

All that needed was a bit more professionalism and patience. Arrange the tours elsewhere. Maybe SL. Work it out with the boards and keep friendly relations and revisit this few months after WCT20 and Afghanistan stabilizes.

Instead you are making enemies out of two of the friendliest top 4 boards to Pakistan.

If there's a threat, it does not matter if it was in NZ or England or India or SL. Almost all nations would cancel such tours. Imagine what would have happened if NZ continued and there was an incident? Your cricket would be lost for another decade.

What NZC did and what ECB did are the right thing to do. How Pakistan is reacting is the wrong way to go.

This particular forum members are heavily tilted towards maudlin. Look at any neutral forum, like reddit.com/r/cricket or other forums in Aus. You can see people are puzzled and shaking their heads at how Pakistan is reacting.

 

[moghul]

They did a wonderful job. Thankfully we have these two to take care of the mess created by insensitive and cruel political game played by the "western block".

 

[wajid]

No more nice guy attitude from the PCB

Presidential security, 400 plus police officers, full rangers task force and someone virtually wiping there backside every time the hosts needed a dump.

Rambo needs to start firing the shots now going forward.

Not 400, 4000 sir. Someone said this number is comparable to entire police force of NZ

 

[Major]

Forget Hayden

Pakistan need to take Major Asif Ghafoor as their mentor and consultant for the T20 World Cup. He is someone who will drive some pride in these players before their big clashes

why would u want an ex DG ISPR to go with the team?

 

[Rana]

why would u want an ex DG ISPR to go with the team?

Because I don’t view this as a sport anymore

 

[haiderva]

Absolutely. I am glad that Ramiz is at the helm because he is able to articulate the pain, anger, and frustration we are all feeling. If it had been someone else (who wasn't a player), they surely would have taken a more diplomatic stance, which isn't necessarily the right approach here. The world needs to know that Pakistan cricket has been betrayed by NZ and Eng and they need to be told in no-uncertain terms.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wasim Khan mostly did. He did the right thing a leader with the worst possible scenario can do - arrange for the safe return of NZ team and picking up the pieces. His statement yesterday was not perfect, but still mostly professional.

Ramiz raja, the Interior Minister, Inzy - all lost the plot. As an outside observer, seeing how even professional journalists react positively to Ramiz's reactions indicate that they are mirroring the feelings of the general populace - though it does not feel right.

You have had a long years of isolation from visiting foreign teams. SL and SA just visited you. You just hosted PSL successfully. So, you are on the upward ramp. You hit a snag - with NZC and ECB withdrawing.

This needed to be a waiting game. If Taliban takeover (with huge support from Pakistan state apparatus) had not happened, this NZC/ECB tour would have gone through,. Circumstances were out of the control at mere cricket level.

All that needed was a bit more professionalism and patience. Arrange the tours elsewhere. Maybe SL. Work it out with the boards and keep friendly relations and revisit this few months after WCT20 and Afghanistan stabilizes.

Instead you are making enemies out of two of the friendliest top 4 boards to Pakistan.

If there's a threat, it does not matter if it was in NZ or England or India or SL. Almost all nations would cancel such tours. Imagine what would have happened if NZ continued and there was an incident? Your cricket would be lost for another decade.

What NZC did and what ECB did are the right thing to do. How Pakistan is reacting is the wrong way to go.

This particular forum members are heavily tilted towards maudlin. Look at any neutral forum, like reddit.com/r/cricket or other forums in Aus. You can see people are puzzled and shaking their heads at how Pakistan is reacting.

None of them would be saying that if it was their own team getting dumped on.

 

[Abdurmirr]

Both Wasim and Ramiz need to stay consistent with their stances and not let the big 3 push us around.

It's good that we sticked to principle and refused to play England on a neutral venue, just hope that this firmness stays around until we get a proper fair deal - which i doubt- from both NZC and ECB.

 

[street cricketer]

We won’t surprise anyone

Just go out and play as if you are possessed by a demon. Absolutely numb to fear and humiliation. This World Cup should not be a pleasant and joyful experience for those who are representing Pakistan. Distance yourself from every opponent. No need for token handshakes and national anthems etc. Turn your back to the Indian and New Zealand National anthem if you must.

What about England, the biggest culprit?

The current predicament of Pakistan is due to the intelligence they received from the five eyes. Now whether you call it "intelligence" or poltics, NZ is not significant enough as a country to take huge geopolitical decisions, their orders must have come from either US or UK. I'm not sure if the US keeps tabs on cricket to blacklist Pakistan, India is not China, it doesn't have a big enough clout to bully NZ as a country. So that leaves us with only England.

I'm surprised at the soft spot British Pakistanis are having on England when they have betrayed Pak more than NZ. Pakistan toured England when England was desperate and they just casually discarded Pakistan when they're desperate in return.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What about England, the biggest culprit?

The current predicament of Pakistan is due to the intelligence they received from the five eyes. Now whether you call it "intelligence" or poltics, NZ is not significant enough as a country to take huge geopolitical decisions, their orders must have come from either US or UK. I'm not sure if the US keeps tabs on cricket to blacklist Pakistan, India is not China, it doesn't have a big enough clout to bully NZ as a country. So that leaves us with only England.

I'm surprised at the soft spot British Pakistanis are having on England when they have betrayed Pak more than NZ. Pakistan toured England when England was desperate and they just casually discarded Pakistan when they're desperate in return.

The soft spot is because we live here bro, this is our home. But this is deeply embarrassing, and one of the reasons why you still have Pakistanis who won't fully commit to supporting England.

I agree that NZ are not to blame for this as much as England, I said from day one this was coming from Britain, and that was before it had been confirmed. I just knew it because I read the papers here and knew which way it was going.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Probably not. It may sound slavish but I think Pak should have considered playing the series at a neutral venue and continue to maintain good relationship with all the boards.

As of now they have spoiled relationship with NZC, they already have a spoiled relationship with BCCI, now they are critical of ECB, most likely Aussies won't come to Pakistan, so Pak may spoil that relationship as well. Basically that's 4 countries Pakistan are looking not to play bilateral against, unless they tour Pak, which as of now is unlikely.

The way Ramiz and Wasim have humiliated Zimbabwe in the past has shown their lack of maturity in dealing with boards that have good relationship and have been supportive of Pakistan cricket. A team can lose comprehensively at times, doesn't mean you end up humiliating them for no fault.

PCB hasn't had the best of relationship with Bangladesh as well, but at least it seems to be improving now.

So if you see overall, PCB is isolating themselves, which is not a good sign.

You've got it the wrong way.

ECB and NZC spoiled the relationship with PCB. We should not try and bring that relationship back if they are unwilling to treat us with respect and dignity.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

They have handled it poorly.
Can still understand giving of empty statements like 'channel your anger' to motivate players and fans.

But especially Ramiz "they will hear from us", "what world are they in" and youtube/Twitter grandstanding and public posturing not needed.

Wasim Khan atleast it seems like he has been trying to do something productive by working on SL/Bang on short notice tour even though unsuccessful. Ramiz is simply playing to the gallery.

Agree.
Ramiz has been sort of immature and does not have any substance. His anger and frustration is surely understandable but start acting like a loose cannon is NOT something you would expect from the board chairman.

If it was one of the general cricket fan in the streets, or some former cricketer not employed by the board, then yeah, but the board chairman should have a lot better and a lot matured approach, on how he represents himself to the media and to the public.

 

[street cricketer]

The soft spot is because we live here bro, this is our home. But this is deeply embarrassing, and one of the reasons why you still have Pakistanis who won't fully commit to supporting England.

I agree that NZ are not to blame for this as much as England, I said from day one this was coming from Britain, and that was before it had been confirmed. I just knew it because I read the papers here and knew which way it was going.

Yeah I can understand the disappointment against NZ, but just felt the reaction against NZ players and their team has been a bit OTT from Pak fans. Even NZ as a country is a small fish in the larger scheme of geopolitics and it makes no sense to hate on the NZ team or its cricketers given once they received the orders from above, their players had no chance but to comply.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yeah I can understand the disappointment against NZ, but just felt the reaction against NZ players and their team has been a bit OTT from Pak fans. Even NZ as a country is a small fish in the larger scheme of geopolitics and it makes no sense to hate on the NZ team or its cricketers given once they received the orders from above, their players had no chance but to comply.

Yes, I've said as much myself in the thread on Tom Latham. NZ is a sort of UK colony abroad, always feels like they are still under our thumb mostly. If we say jump, they say how high?

 

[sharmaji]

Given the situation, I think they are doing a fine job. Good balance with Wasim being professional and Ramiz passionate.

 

[DrSchultz]

Given the situation, I think they are doing a fine job. Good balance with Wasim being professional and Ramiz passionate.

My thoughts too. Wasim is a professional administrator and he is the money and strategy guy. While Rambo is well Rambo.
However, this must be clear to all here: There is NOTHING and I repeat NOTHING that the PCB could have done that would have gotten different results. You can replace Wasim and Rameez with the duke and duchess and still the NZC and ECB would have acted in the same disgraceful cowardly manner.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I'm surprised at the soft spot British Pakistanis are having on England when they have betrayed Pak more than NZ. Pakistan toured England when England was desperate and they just casually discarded Pakistan when they're desperate in return.

Not that there is any earthly excuse for the vitriol, but Pakistan also toured New Zealand during the pandemic and were treated demonstrably worse by the local authorities than they were in the UK.

 

[Savak]

This episode has also exposed the nationalists from the Phattu's i.e. PCB cannot do anything, Ramiz is just playing to the galleries, PCB should not risk isolation, PCB should suck it up and play in the UAE, don't risk angering the Big 4 boards, PCB and Pakistan has no real standing in world cricket e.t.c.

 

[street cricketer]

Not that there is any earthly excuse for the vitriol, but Pakistan also toured New Zealand during the pandemic and were treated demonstrably worse by the local authorities than they were in the UK.

Tbh Australia and NZ are just two paranoid countries when it comes to health safety, and tend to be the most averse to risk taking. Maybe them being isolated island country/continents have something to do with that. They enforced the harshest lockdown measures to not let covid take hold in their countries and tbf they enjoyed the fruits of those harsh measures as these countries were among the least affected by covid. However we're already seeing signs of a blowback from the society in the anti lockdown protests happening across Australia.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

This episode has also exposed the nationalists from the Phattu's i.e. PCB cannot do anything, Ramiz is just playing to the galleries, PCB should not risk isolation, PCB should suck it up and play in the UAE, don't risk angering the Big 4 boards, PCB and Pakistan has no real standing in world cricket e.t.c.

What is your thought on what PCB should do?
Please give us an action plan.

 

[Savak]

What is your thought on what PCB should do?
Please give us an action plan.

Exactly whatever Ramiz Raja and Wasim Khan are advocating.

No more Cricket on Neutral Venues, only in Pakistan or take a hike. Focusing only on those countries willing to come to Pakistan

Focusing on trying to improve the Cricketing Economy in Pakistan at both the Domestic, International and PSL Level

Getting the High profile Pakistani Cricketers and Legends involved in Domestic Cricket

Getting top Elite Foreign Players, Ex Legends involved with the national team and domestic cricket

Drop in Pitches

Professionalizing Domestic Cricket.

Taking steps for self reliance rather than depending on anyone else.

These steps are a good start from today onwards

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Tbh it was totally unforeseen with what NZ pulled out of the hat. There was nothing that could have been done at such a short notice by then.

On the other hand, I think it's been good to actually hear the feelings of the fans from PCB instead of typical diplomatic responses we have heard over the years. We need to stand up for ourselves for once.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Exactly whatever Ramiz Raja and Wasim Khan are advocating.

No more Cricket on Neutral Venues, only in Pakistan or take a hike. Focusing only on those countries willing to come to Pakistan

Focusing on trying to improve the Cricketing Economy in Pakistan at both the Domestic, International and PSL Level

Getting the High profile Pakistani Cricketers and Legends involved in Domestic Cricket

Getting top Elite Foreign Players, Ex Legends involved with the national team and domestic cricket

Drop in Pitches

Professionalizing Domestic Cricket.

Taking steps for self reliance rather than depending on anyone else.

These steps are a good start from today onwards

Good enough.

And what eventual goals are we going to achieve after all this has happened? Or You didn't have an eventual goal in vision when you wrote the above?

 

[IMMY69]

I've restrained myself since the Kiwis pulled out at the last minute.
I wanted to see the evidence of a bomb threat... or at the very least fir the information to be passed onto the Pak Government and for the for the government to categorically state that there was credible information of a threat to the Kiwi players.

However this hasn't happened and now with the England team pulling out citing mental fatigue, in my mind the inevitable death of cricket as I know it has accelerated.

Only thing that is left is for Pakistan to threaten to boycott the T20 World Cup all together citing "fatigue" and if that spells the end then so be it.

 

[Anis Shivani]

On the whole they're both doing just fine. Especially working in tandem. It's a good team and I hope, along with the chief selector, they stay together. You need both Wasim's cool-headed professionalism and Ramiz's emotion. Emotion is helpful to the cause at this moment because you cannot just move on from something so big. Emotionally insisting on showing us the evidence of the "threat" is what has already resulted in the ECB backing off from the security concern in the statement they have released. The pressure has already exposed them, because they could no longer rely on the alleged threat that was already ridiculed by the public, the rest of the cricketing fraternity, and officials at different levels of government. All avenues should be pursued, including compensation, but above all not letting go of the alleged security intelligence, and making its non-disclosure the basis of a sustained argument against these boards. The insistence on not playing in the UAE is correct, you cannot lay down at this point and let them run over you. I like the idea of Pakistan backing out at the last moment from the India matchup. Use the absurd woke argument, so narcissistically deployed recently by the spoiled Americans Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka, and plead mental fatigue or something, and hit the ICC where it hurts. Play New Zealand at the world cup and hopefully beat them, but do something at that match too to make it clear that it's not just about cricket, something else is going on. After pulling out of the India match (and ideally moving on to the next round), issue a calm statement protesting the politicization of cricket. And just shut up after that and say nothing more. It would be odd to pull out against India, rather than New Zealand, but that's the one that would have the impact. Carry on Wasim and Ramiz.

 

[Snowflake]

They have handled this EXACTLY how it should be handled.

If anyone thinks these reactions were knee-jerk, they are mistaken. Ramiz and WK both understand that these events are unlike any that Pakistan have faced in the past. They understand that A LOT of effort had been put in place to bring international cricket back to Pakistan. They also know that Pakistan stepped in to help out ECB in VERY difficult circumstanced. Despite all this, if boards can still easily pull-put of tours to Pakistan, without being even a bit considerate of the impact to Pakistan cricket; it is HIGHLY concerning.

So, this unprecedented situation calls for unprecedented reaction. This is absolutely no time for diplomacy and niceties and these boards need to be shown a very HONEST and TRANSPARENT response. There is no need to hide your feelings if you know that you have been unjustly treated.

Diplomacy has gotten us to where we are. Things need to change and this is exactly the way to go!

 

[hitthestump]

Given the situation, I think they are doing a fine job. Good balance with Wasim being professional and Ramiz passionate.

Their words are capable of coming back to bite them though. NZ and India are more than capable of thrashing us at the WT20 which'll lead to some pretty interesting media headlines over the border.

 

[ManFan]

Their words are capable of coming back to bite them though. NZ and India are more than capable of thrashing us at the WT20 which'll lead to some pretty interesting media headlines over the border.

As long as Pakistan is playing cricket, no one cares.

The problem with this whole fiasco is it has left Pakistan cricket in a near morgue.

 

[Snowflake]

Their words are capable of coming back to bite them though. NZ and India are more than capable of thrashing us at the WT20 which'll lead to some pretty interesting media headlines over the border.

Okay, so what will happen if they beat us? We're scared of the media headlines now? Aren't we tired of this good for nothing diplomatic, also cowardly, attitude just so that we do not pis* off the bigger boards?

What has this diplomacy gotten us? Enough of living with this scared mindset all the time. Yeah we'll go in with a mindset to avenge this behavior by the ECB and NZ. If we win, we'll have a lot of bragging right... If we do not, who cares? It's not like we're getting any favors from them right now either.

 

[hitthestump]

Okay, so what will happen if they beat us? We're scared of the media headlines now? Aren't we tired of this good for nothing diplomatic, also cowardly, attitude just so that we do not pis* off the bigger boards?

What has this diplomacy gotten us? Enough of living with this scared mindset all the time. Yeah we'll go in with a mindset to avenge this behavior by the ECB and NZ. If we win, we'll have a lot of bragging right... If we do not, who cares? It's not like we're getting any favors from them right now either.

Good post. I think you're right - nothing to lose either way.

 

[TheSultan]

Okay, so what will happen if they beat us? We're scared of the media headlines now? Aren't we tired of this good for nothing diplomatic, also cowardly, attitude just so that we do not pis* off the bigger boards?

What has this diplomacy gotten us? Enough of living with this scared mindset all the time. Yeah we'll go in with a mindset to avenge this behavior by the ECB and NZ. If we win, we'll have a lot of bragging right... If we do not, who cares? It's not like we're getting any favors from them right now either.

This is exactly right. And to add, we need consistency and unity on this. Sometimes when these same people do not have the responsibility, they will come out with opposing statements get some sort of one-upmanship on another pcb administration.

E.g. a few years Rambo implied Pakistan give in and surrender to the big 3, but now that it is directly affecting him and his job, he is showing his teeth. Even on the subject of playing against India, he was very much pleading for it even last year and he almost got a dressing down from Gavasker on his youtube channel to be “realistic that it’s impossible”. Now he’s in power he repeats exactly what Gavasker said then.

We need to speak up and more importantly we all need to speak up consistently and put on a United front especially on these subjects.

 

[sharmaji]

Well said.

Okay, so what will happen if they beat us? We're scared of the media headlines now? Aren't we tired of this good for nothing diplomatic, also cowardly, attitude just so that we do not pis* off the bigger boards?

What has this diplomacy gotten us? Enough of living with this scared mindset all the time. Yeah we'll go in with a mindset to avenge this behavior by the ECB and NZ. If we win, we'll have a lot of bragging right... If we do not, who cares? It's not like we're getting any favors from them right now either.

 

[Waleed93]

Not at all, especially Ramiz.

He acted like a 13 years old keyboard warrior, not like the chairman of the PCB. He represents Pakistan Cricket and he should have kept his cool, and try to limit the damage through diplomacy.

Yes, what NZ did was wrong, especially the fact that they did not share any information they had about the alleged threat to their players, thus putting Pakistani lives under potential risk.

However, there was absolutely no need to have a direct go at NZC or the NZ team. The NZ government and their security agencies took their decision and their cricket team and board had to follow their orders.

If Imran Khan asks the PCB to forfeit the next WC in India, will Ramiz obey to his orders, or will he go against the Head of the State ? His Twitter rant has made him look like a child and has damaged Pakistan Cricket in the long run.

With some professional behind the scene negociations, he could have found a way to resolve this issue, and NZ would have agreed to tour Pakistan in 2022 or 2023, and until then he could have showed the world that Pakistan is indeed a safe nation, through home series against the likes of SA, WI, SL and the PSL.

Instead of acting like a leader, he decided to play to the galleries, and probably destroyed any chance of a home series against England, NZ or Australia.

He even asked the players to target 3 teams at the upcoming WT20 (India, NZ and England), to "avenge" the damage that has been done to Pakistan Cricket. This is not how the head of a Cricket Board should express himself. He basically has made enemies out of nowhere and his fake bravado is turning us into a laughing stock.

 

[Snowflake]

Not at all, especially Ramiz.

He acted like a 13 years old keyboard warrior, not like the chairman of the PCB. He represents Pakistan Cricket and he should have kept his cool, and try to limit the damage through diplomacy.

Yes, what NZ did was wrong, especially the fact that they did not share any information they had about the alleged threat to their players, thus putting Pakistani lives under potential risk.

However, there was absolutely no need to have a direct go at NZC or the NZ team. The NZ government and their security agencies took their decision and their cricket team and board had to follow their orders.

If Imran Khan asks the PCB to forfeit the next WC in India, will Ramiz obey to his orders, or will he go against the Head of the State ? His Twitter rant has made him look like a child and has damaged Pakistan Cricket in the long run.

With some professional behind the scene negociations, he could have found a way to resolve this issue, and NZ would have agreed to tour Pakistan in 2022 or 2023, and until then he could have showed the world that Pakistan is indeed a safe nation, through home series against the likes of SA, WI, SL and the PSL.

Instead of acting like a leader, he decided to play to the galleries, and probably destroyed any chance of a home series against England, NZ or Australia.

He even asked the players to target 3 teams at the upcoming WT20 (India, NZ and England), to "avenge" the damage that has been done to Pakistan Cricket. This is not how the head of a Cricket Board should express himself. He basically has made enemies out of nowhere and his fake bravado is turning us into a laughing stock.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[Mamoon]

Not at all, especially Ramiz.

He acted like a 13 years old keyboard warrior, not like the chairman of the PCB. He represents Pakistan Cricket and he should have kept his cool, and try to limit the damage through diplomacy.

Yes, what NZ did was wrong, especially the fact that they did not share any information they had about the alleged threat to their players, thus putting Pakistani lives under potential risk.

However, there was absolutely no need to have a direct go at NZC or the NZ team. The NZ government and their security agencies took their decision and their cricket team and board had to follow their orders.

If Imran Khan asks the PCB to forfeit the next WC in India, will Ramiz obey to his orders, or will he go against the Head of the State ? His Twitter rant has made him look like a child and has damaged Pakistan Cricket in the long run.

With some professional behind the scene negociations, he could have found a way to resolve this issue, and NZ would have agreed to tour Pakistan in 2022 or 2023, and until then he could have showed the world that Pakistan is indeed a safe nation, through home series against the likes of SA, WI, SL and the PSL.

Instead of acting like a leader, he decided to play to the galleries, and probably destroyed any chance of a home series against England, NZ or Australia.

He even asked the players to target 3 teams at the upcoming WT20 (India, NZ and England), to "avenge" the damage that has been done to Pakistan Cricket. This is not how the head of a Cricket Board should express himself. He basically has made enemies out of nowhere and his fake bravado is turning us into a laughing stock.

I agree with this.

The issue is that the entire country is having a verbal diarrhea. Everyone has lost his head and have gone bonkers.

Pakistan needs to stop crying now. All this moaning and groaning needs to end now.

 

[Anis Shivani]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Diplomacy has failed. That was the lesson of this debacle.

 

[Waleed93]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Insanity is directly having a go at a cricket team because their government decided to cancel cricket tour.

I repeat, their way of doing was not good, but that doesn't make Ramiz's rant look good.

He literally declared a war against NZ and England, and his fake bravado has literally resulted in an even worse outcome for Pakistan Cricket in the long term.

 

[Waleed93]

I agree with this.

The issue is that the entire country is having a verbal diarrhea. Everyone has lost his head and have gone bonkers.

Pakistan needs to stop crying now. All this moaning and groaning needs to end now.

Fans going mad is understable, even though they need to accept what has unfortunately happened.

The PCB, however, needs to act professionnaly and make sure to bounce back from this instead of playing to the galleries and making things even worse.

 

[Snowflake]

Insanity is directly having a go at a cricket team because their government decided to cancel cricket tour.

I repeat, their way of doing was not good, but that doesn't make Ramiz's rant look good.

He literally declared a war against NZ and England, and his fake bravado has literally resulted in an even worse outcome for Pakistan Cricket in the long term.

No, that is not insanity. Understand the context.

Also, you realize that both things literally did not happen, right?

 

[Snowflake]

Diplomacy has failed. That was the lesson of this debacle.

Agreed.

 

[Snowflake]

I agree with this.

The issue is that the entire country is having a verbal diarrhea. Everyone has lost his head and have gone bonkers.

Pakistan needs to stop crying now. All this moaning and groaning needs to end now.

How about you show how its done? You know, practice what you preach?

 

[Mamoon]

We all know that Pakistan has the most delusional fans in the world.

They think that since diplomacy failed, PCB’s new tactic of “showing eyes” to ECB, NZC, CA will work.

One cannot help but laugh.

 

[Waleed93]

Diplomacy has failed. That was the lesson of this debacle.

There is a way of doing things.

Yes, this was a setback.

Yes, the NZ government did wrong.

That still doesn't allow the PCB to act like a bunch of fan boys.

Had they dealt with the situation behind closed doors without screaming their lungs out on Twitter and in the press, a NZ tour would have happened in the near future and it would have sent a positive image of a professionnal Cricket Board.

This childish behaviour has sent us even back than before, and fans are not realising it.

 

[Mamoon]

How about you show how its done? You know, practice what you preach?

Show what? I am not ashamed of admitting that I have found this whole episode very entertaining. Pakistan got what it deserved.

 

[TheSultan]

Insanity is directly having a go at a cricket team because their government decided to cancel cricket tour.

I repeat, their way of doing was not good, but that doesn't make Ramiz's rant look good.

He literally declared a war against NZ and England, and his fake bravado has literally resulted in an even worse outcome for Pakistan Cricket in the long term.

Strange that after he did all of that he has had messages of support in the English media. Even the spokeswoman for England in the high commission is showing support.

Could it be argued that he acted “unbecoming of a board official”. Yes it can be argued, but the alternative hasn’t really ever worked, and it’s time to try something else.

I am far from a fan of Rameez. I absolutely abhor is cliche ridden commentary. However, to pay homage to cricket cliches, what he has done over the last few days is “just what the doctor ordered”. He’s proved to be a “smart operator”.

 

[Snowflake]

There is a way of doing things.

Yes, this was a setback.

Yes, the NZ government did wrong.

That still doesn't allow the PCB to act like a bunch of fan boys.

Had they dealt with the situation behind closed doors without screaming their lungs out on Twitter and in the press, a NZ tour would have happened in the near future and it would have sent a positive image of a professionnal Cricket Board.

This childish behaviour has sent us even back than before, and fans are not realising it.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[Snowflake]

Show what? I am not ashamed of admitting that I have found this whole episode very entertaining. Pakistan got what it deserved.

Right. Your commentary is a clear reflection of a person who is entertained, Certainly not of the typical self-depreciating poster that we've all gotten used to. Sure

 

[Waleed93]

No, that is not insanity. Understand the context.

Also, you realize that both things literally did not happen, right?

Here are the exact words of our newly appointed PCB Chairman :

"We are going into the WC where we initially had one target (India), and where we have now added 2 teams (NZ and England). We are not going to lose because you did wrong and we will avenge that in the ground."

These kind of statements have resulted in nothing but humiliations in WC games against India, and yet, our former players have not learnt the lesson.

Secondly, he is clearly portraying NZ and England as some sort of bad guys, thus further damaging the relationship with their boards, and the chances of them touring us in the future.

 

[Anis Shivani]

There is a way of doing things.

Yes, this was a setback.

Yes, the NZ government did wrong.

That still doesn't allow the PCB to act like a bunch of fan boys.

Had they dealt with the situation behind closed doors without screaming their lungs out on Twitter and in the press, a NZ tour would have happened in the near future and it would have sent a positive image of a professionnal Cricket Board.

This childish behaviour has sent us even back than before, and fans are not realising it.

The approach depends on how serious one thinks this setback is. I see it as potentially conclusive (in terms of Pakistan's future cricket prospects), whereas others, I imagine you included, based on your suggested approach, see it as a difficult but temporary setback. I think the fans, the PCB officialdom, everyone else expressing anger is doing so because we realize just how bad this is, that there is no resolving this by being diplomatic and pursuing proper channels. This was done for 12 years, but in a moment it can be wiped out. I agree that either strategy, diplomacy or aggression, is at this point probably a losing one, but I'd rather try the latter to go out with some self-respect. Had we stayed quiet, even the self-incriminating statement from ECB wouldn't have followed. They would have easily hidden behind "security."

 

[Waleed93]

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

You can keep repeating the same thing over and over again, the fact is that this "heroism" will not do any good to Pakistan Cricket.

 

[OneManShow]

British High Commission has said their travel advice had not changed. ECB did not pull out due to security concerns. Pakistan is safe. Then you have 5 Eyes and some whack threat. NZ pulled out on bad intelligence and England decided that their players mental well being is more important than Pakistani players when they were under strict quarantine in 2020. Ramiz and Wasim got it spot on. As far as Mamoon goes, I've never seen a more idiotic stance in my entire life. The guy is a parody

 

[Snowflake]

Here are the exact words of our newly appointed PCB Chairman :

"We are going into the WC where we initially had one target (India), and where we have now added 2 teams (NZ and England). We are not going to lose because you did wrong and we will avenge that in the ground."

These kind of statements have resulted in nothing but humiliations in WC games against India, and yet, our former players have not learnt the lesson.

Secondly, he is clearly portraying NZ and England as some sort of bad guys, thus further damaging the relationship with their boards, and the chances of them touring us in the future.

You need to grow a thick if you are so easily affected by losses in a sport. These statements have not resulted in any humiliation but its the results themselves. Either way, it is again no big deal if we lose, with or without the aggressive statements.

No issue in portraying NZ and ECB as the bad guys when they literally have acted like ones - call a spade a spade; diplomacy hasn't gotten you #hit! Also, we're not the only responsible party when it comes to maintaining good relationships - its a two way street. Stop being so submissive!

And again (I can't believe you keep repeating the same thing over and over again), if they didn't tour now with all the diplomacy, they wouldn't in the future. There is no "further damaging the relationship..."

 

[Snowflake]

You can keep repeating the same thing over and over again, the fact is that this "heroism" will not do any good to Pakistan Cricket.

Seriously? You are the one saying that?

After all that has happened, you are the one still harping on about how we should be cognizant of maintaining good relationships in the hope that they tour us. Salute to your optimism!

 

[Savak]

Very easy to identify a few badniyat people here in addition to the most notorious one

 

[TheSultan]

I had been away from this forum for about 6-7 years. I’ve started posting again recently and I am truly shocked what has happened to some of our Pakistani fans. Some of them are so submissive, so scared of their own shadow. What is going on?

 

[Junaids]

Another thread which completely misses the point.

The PCB has actually done really well in getting some cricket back to Pakistan and in building bridges with foreign Boards.

And it has all been destroyed in the last six weeks by the Pakistan government and ISI's support for the Taliban.

There is only one, I repeat ONE strategy which can lead to Pakistan hosting western teams again.

The players and PCB are going to have to do what the South African players and Board did during the days of Apartheid.

They are going to have to come out in front of the cricket world and express their total opposition to their country's support for the Taliban regime, and they are going to have to say that it is evil.

It was hard for Barry Richards, Mike Procter and the Pollock brothers to come out and disown and criticise the Apartheid government that their own white South African friends and family (and in some cases they themselves) had elected. And for a while they were despised by their own community.

Two cricket tours of Pakistan have been cancelled in the three weeks since the Taliban regained power. It's not a coincidence - it's the underlying cause.

And nothing that the PCB or the players do can make the slightest difference - unless they condemn what has caused his.

 

[Zaz]

Another thread which completely misses the point.

The PCB has actually done really well in getting some cricket back to Pakistan and in building bridges with foreign Boards.

And it has all been destroyed in the last six weeks by the Pakistan government and ISI's support for the Taliban.

There is only one, I repeat ONE strategy which can lead to Pakistan hosting western teams again.

The players and PCB are going to have to do what the South African players and Board did during the days of Apartheid.

They are going to have to come out in front of the cricket world and express their total opposition to their country's support for the Taliban regime, and they are going to have to say that it is evil.

It was hard for Barry Richards, Mike Procter and the Pollock brothers to come out and disown and criticise the Apartheid government that their own white South African friends and family (and in some cases they themselves) had elected. And for a while they were despised by their own community.

Two cricket tours of Pakistan have been cancelled in the three weeks since the Taliban regained power. It's not a coincidence - it's the underlying cause.

And nothing that the PCB or the players do can make the slightest difference - unless they condemn what has caused his.

Lol are you for real?

Pakistan isnt going to shoot itself in the head to save its foot The taliban are here to stay and making them pakistans enemies isnt a good idea considering whats gone on over the last 20 yrs

If thats the reason for the isolation so be it Pakistan cricket will recover theres still enough boards that want to play them There will be no apologies or calling the taliban out

Laughable suggestion

 

[oatmeal]

Talk is cheap. What matters is results

In my opinion PCB's objectives here are clear - and Ramiz and Wasim's approach would be successful if they achieve these objectives in the medium term (end of 2022)

• Complete at least one tour by Eng/NZ/Aus
• Complete at least one tour by a non big 4 team (SA/WI/BL)
• Don't play any more tours in a neutral venue.