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Hayden & Philander appointed as batting & bowling coaching consultants for T20 World Cup

I hope they are somewhat better than BahQar (that actually rhymes with beykar; which they both really were)
 
Hawkeye said:
All disagreements aside, I do commend you for sticking to your stance of "need experienced coaches".

While folks like [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] who used the same mantra are now licking their tongue seeing the names, just because they're baahir ke log, even though have NO EXPERIENCE.

I for one don't like this experience thing as long as the person has a good cricketing mind.
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I think you are totally misunderstanding my point of view on this matter. I agree with Qualification+experience above all mantra. However the current issue is very unprecedented. Ideally, the new experienced, qualified coach should have been appointed after the T20 World Cup, but I really do not know what has gone on behind the scenes for Misbah and Waqar to resign on the eve of the tournament.

Those who want experience and qualifications in their head coach for this tournament next month should explain the following;

1. Which fully qualified and experienced coach was available on such short notice for such a big assignment?

2. How would they react if PCB actually followed this mantra and hired Aqib Javed and Moin Khan on a temporary basis? Aqib Javed has vast coaching experience with LQ and he hasn’t been sacked for God knows how many consistent years of failure. He’s had to deal with some very big players during his tenure and also some hairy situations where he brought back Salman Butt into big league cricket.

3. If we do go with what is available on short notice, how do they justify not supporting a 2 time World Cup winner, top score of 180+ in ODIs, experienced IPL pro, one of the most devastating and daunting openers in cricket history, part of a champion ODI/Test changing room that was no nonsense throughout their playing careers? The knowledge and wisdom of his playing career is ten times more than all of the wisdom combined within the Pakistan dressing room.
 
Hawkeye said:
Haha, Rameez and Moin + Aqib had a good hug with a huge smile on their faces.

Azam Khan is going nowhere.

Now people need to understand why Misbah resigned. IN PRINCIPLE.


Ks1pMJ.jpg
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Lol if a picture qualifies as a meme this is surely it.

Someone should do the honours.

Also Moin looks like he himself hasn’t become PCB chairman…..
 
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Didn't see the whole event presser but few questions:
1. What are Moin and Aqib there. Didn't think they ate on pcb board or mgmt even.
2. Was Wasim Khan there and the way Ramiz is acting has anything been said about his role vs Ramiz role?
3. When will Hayden and Philander join. Start of t20 wc itself may be bit too late. They should try and get them for England series onwards at the latest.
 
Interesting choices. Out of the box I guess.

Full marks for effort, what would be good is if they could work with the players before the tournament.
 
Saj said:
Interesting choices. Out of the box I guess.

Full marks for effort, what would be good is if they could work with the players before the tournament.
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should bring them on board immediately for some on job experience...
 
warcry said:
bah.
Michael Hayden has no experience in being a Coach at this level.

Philander is alright, Pollock would have been a better option if available.
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Pollock would have been much better option especially in the long term.
I guess these are only short term Consultant appointments
 
Neither has much experience. Very bizarre appointments. I can see Philander being a good coach one day but don't get on what basis they were selected.
 
Hayden and Philander have been brought in as consultants for T20 WC.

They haven't been hired as coaches, I guess Saqlain/Razzaq will continue as head coaches for WC.

They will hire a permanent head coach only after the T20 WC.
 
Rana said:
Hayden is a fearless mindset that is so important.

I just hope Hayden persuades PCB to replace Khushdil and Asif Ali for Sharjeel and Fakhar
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Haha, Hayden wouldn't have heard of any of those names. And let's see how many Pakistani players can get through his think accent and frequent references to the "Lord" etc.
 
Major said:
So where does ur argument of coaching experience go?
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Lack of coaching experience was not my only argument against loser Misbah. Even with 100 years of coaching experience, he should be no where near international setup.
 
This is interesting choice. I mean getting someone from the Aussies especially from GOAT Australian side is remarkable move.

But I am not sure if Hayden will be interested in full time coaching. Will he be ready to stay in Pakistan, if PCB offers extension?
 
Wait..so Pakistan are going into a T20 world Cup with no head coach?

And after sacking an extremely unpopular one from the position?

And with a captain who's leading them for the first time in an ICC event?

I've heard this story before.. :dhoni
 
Varun said:
Haha, Hayden wouldn't have heard of any of those names. And let's see how many Pakistani players can get through his think accent and frequent references to the "Lord" etc.
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Pakistanis work with Aussies throughout PSL

I think everyone knows Sharjeel and Fakhar
 
Too many coaches is always a recipe for disaster.

What about Saqi & Razzler?
 
mon858 said:
Didn't see the whole event presser but few questions:
1. What are Moin and Aqib there. Didn't think they ate on pcb board or mgmt even.
2. Was Wasim Khan there and the way Ramiz is acting has anything been said about his role vs Ramiz role?
3. When will Hayden and Philander join. Start of t20 wc itself may be bit too late. They should try and get them for England series onwards at the latest.
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People are reading too much into Moin and Aqib being there, they were there just to represent Ramiz as a national team mate.

Don’t worry, PCB won’t blunder by hiring these two in senior official roles....so I hope!
 
Can someone share their experience and if they are level 3 or 4 qualified both Hyaden amd Philander.
 
Rana said:
That’s exactly what Ramiz must have told Haydos.

If Razzaq is in the coaching staff then I recon you will see a more positive approach by the Pakistanis as well. Razzaq was a fearless player too
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Exactly. I think Razzaq will surprise a lot of his critics. A lot of people misjudge him based on his statements in media.
 
b.lesner said:
Can someone share their experience and if they are level 3 or 4 qualified both Hyaden amd Philander.
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I don’t know.

But I understand most cricketers complete their level 2 within their playing career and they are assigned academy coaching work during their playing careers which ultimately counts as experience.

Also, you need the correct health and safety certificates. Extensive International cricket experience and a good First class CV can often supersede Level 2-3 coaching certificates.

I am not sure if Sachin has a level 3 but he definitely did some coaching sessions with MCC Academy in 2017
 
Greenstorm said:
Exactly. I think Razzaq will surprise a lot of his critics. A lot of people misjudge him based on his statements in media.
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He is a brute of a cricketer. No.... given attitude. Yes he says some ridiculous things but I guess he is just trying to fit in
 
Wow, so Ramiz Raja's reasoning is, "I know these guys".

Wow, the PCB always ups the unprofessional standards the BCCI sets :jimmy
 
As always Pakistani media and fans will expect Hayden and Philander to swing their magic stick and turn Pakistan into a world-beater side overnight. And when Pakistan crashes out in the first round the blame game will start from them and end on whichever player makes the mistake of yawning in-front of the camera.
 
Hasan123 said:
Neither has much experience. Very bizarre appointments. I can see Philander being a good coach one day but don't get on what basis they were selected.
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Who are they replacing? If it's Misbah and Waqar then perhaps we are better off without that sort of experience.
 
great news!!
bringing in Hayden + Philander is a great move
they will weed off non performers
 
Hopefully Hayden and Philander appointment regardless temporary are good acquisitions. Hopefully the players can learn a few things from them.
 
Mesozoic said:
Wait..so Pakistan are going into a T20 world Cup with no head coach?

And after sacking an extremely unpopular one from the position?

And with a captain who's leading them for the first time in an ICC event?

I've heard this story before.. :dhoni
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Saqlain Mushtaq and Abdul Razzaq are there as head and assistant coaches. Will probably being going into the World T20 as well unless there is some other recruitment for that position.
 
Going forward it would be great if some other overseas consultants can be recruited for short periods to work in NCA as well as U19 players. If someone like Mcgrath, Richard Pybus, Andy Flower etc who have worked in similar capacities can be invited for even a month or two every year during off season I think that would be a great initiative.
 
Greenstorm said:
Lack of coaching experience was not my only argument against loser Misbah. Even with 100 years of coaching experience, he should be no where near international setup.
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Its his pathetic defensive mindset that hurled us a lot; and that is what Babar started his captaincy with
 
ARK Rafay said:
Ah what have you reminded me.
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Oops. :misbah

But don't worry. The stars are aligning. It's gonna come a full cycle in a couple of months. In the final, with 6 to get off 5 and one wicket in hand, Pant will try and play a reverse paddle against Hasnain and will be caught at third man..

Khushdil Shah will also famously hit 6 sixes in an over against Lockie Ferguson in a must win super-12 game... :afridi
 
Doesn't matter for Hayden + Philander
They are professionals, and will do better than what Misbah and Waqar brings to the table

Remember , Mickey's first assignment was Test series against England
Jeff Lawson's first assignment was WT20 in 2007
Bob Woolmer's first series was Asia Cup 2004
 
I think we are just desperate for anyone to come and give us a quick fix but just as the decline has taken time, so will the improvement. Coaches make little or no difference, it's the talent scouts and selectors that will make the difference and we don't have a guy we can appoint. Hayden and Vern will have no impact, which is exactly the same as Misbah and Waqar.
 
I’m a bit surprised by the choices but it is indeed a good one.

To bring in Hayden an all format opener who had a lot of success as an opener and was from the formidable Aussies side who had beaten every single side for a decade.

Both are modern day cricketers , who knows the game how it is played today

It is great step in terms setting the mindset and approach which Misbah and Waqar took them back to the 80s

If Hayden and Philander is replacing Misbah and Waqar then I would call that as premium upgrade.

I don’t know why many here are complaining.
They are appointed as consultants who will work with players in a short term basis
If everything goes well, they might be asked for long term commitments which is up to them to decide.
 
Random but great choices. It's out of blue but these guys have been the best in the game and playing all around. Hayden has been in IPL and Vernon is good too.We tend to do well under foreign guys so this is nice to see. Far better than the Trainwreck we were going to see under MisWaq. No need to freak out since they are just consultants not coaches.This is the best PCB could do at short notice.
 
Co-commentators of Ramiz of course, but who knows maybe they might be able to offer something different to the Pakistani players.

Worth a try I guess.
 
Hayden is a great choice.

Philander, not bad either but I think we could have gotten someone better. Still an interesting choice because I don't remember Pakistan ever hiring a foreign bowling coach before. This would have to be the first time.
 
Please : attach Fakhar and Sharjeel with Hayden
They will learn a lot from him

And, Philander needs to be attached with Amir, Abbas (if he still wants to play), Naseem, Shaheen, etc.

So these players will learn a lot
 
Unless they have experience of coaching, these appointments won't make much of a difference.

At least with Waqar, he has experience of coaching and is a bigger legend than Philander.

The criteria for me seems like one about hiring big names and that is not how coaching works.
 
We had so much opening batting problems in last 30000000 years

Hope Hayden will help improve even 50%
 
Barragan said:
Unless they have experience of coaching, these appointments won't make much of a difference.

At least with Waqar, he has experience of coaching and is a bigger legend than Philander.

The criteria for me seems like one about hiring big names and that is not how coaching works.
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At least they won't be corrupt like Misbah and Waqar; who were just simply YES men
 
They are there to get playing 11 right and how to come up with a game plan against other teams. And to attach some marketing value for the Pakistani team who looks more like a club team so something to talk about by international commentators.:hasan2
Tabdeeli ayee nahi bulkay aachuki hai
 
deep82 said:
So, Hayden replaces Misbah as head coach while Philander takes place of Waqar as bowling coach.

And what happen to Saqlain and Razzaq now?
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Saqlain & Razzaq were temporary appoitments or stand in coaches. Too bad for them they didn't even get a single match. It depends how soon Hayden and Philander can start, because Pak vs NZ ODI series is 3 days from now.
 
Saj said:
Co-commentators of Ramiz of course, but who knows maybe they might be able to offer something different to the Pakistani players.

Worth a try I guess.
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Good thing is they will to simply be YES man; which Misbah was
 
As soon as we loose a few games the media mafia will be out there preaching why is Pakistan not honouring its own legendary players to be consultants.
 
I don't believe there's a precedent for Consultants having an outsized impact on the long term durability of a national team. If so, certainly ones who have never demonstrated that type of value add at any point in their post cricket careers.

Even if Pakistan wins the World Cup, these type of short term measures only do 2 things. It creates an initial impact on the fans and the media. Rameez will have won a lot of goodwill from the fans. Two, it diminishes PCB coffers without adding any sustainable value.
 
hitthestump said:
Educated, well-connected and been around cricket seemingly forever. I feel like we could have done with him sooner.
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We did have him as CEO in the early 2000s. I'll leave people to judge the results, particularly on our domestic game.
 
Major said:
So where does ur argument of coaching experience go?
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Hate to break it to you, Misbah, with his experience as coaching, captain, or cricketer is nowhere near someone like Hayden. Misbah is not even worth licking Hayden's boots at times. Hayden is a great cricketing mind, coached Australia domestics and is a great analyzer. That in itself is good enough for him to be a batting consultant. I know the way Misbah was kicked out is bitter for you, but this is for the benefit of Team Pakistan. Misbah is certainly not bigger than Team Pakistan and I refuse to take those Pakistani fans seriously who prefer Team Misbah over Team Pakistan.
 
Don’t agree with Philander’s selection as I don’t even remember him playing T20Is however a good coach/mentor can arise from a mediocre player as well.

Philander might not have been the bowler that Waqar was but he’s definitely an upgrade.

Remember folks Waqar was anti-data and also by his own admission wasn’t a fan of analysis. He no had no methodology with our workers.

There’s a reason why he faced humiliation when he applied for the Australia Bowling Coach position. He was also ditched by his IPL team because he was so trash.
 
ahmedzee said:
Hate to break it to you, Misbah, with his experience as coaching, captain, or cricketer is nowhere near someone like Hayden. Misbah is not even worth licking Hayden's boots at times. Hayden is a great cricketing mind, coached Australia domestics and is a great analyzer. That in itself is good enough for him to be a batting consultant. I know the way Misbah was kicked out is bitter for you, but this is for the benefit of Team Pakistan. Misbah is certainly not bigger than Team Pakistan and I refuse to take those Pakistani fans seriously who prefer Team Misbah over Team Pakistan.
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Second this. Misbah was a leech, a total Yes man
 
topspin said:
Don’t agree with Philander’s selection as I don’t even remember him playing T20Is however a good coach/mentor can arise from a mediocre player as well.

Philander might not have been the bowler that Waqar was but he’s definitely an upgrade.

Remember folks Waqar was anti-data and also by his own admission wasn’t a fan of analysis. He no had no methodology with our workers.

There’s a reason why he faced humiliation when he applied for the Australia Bowling Coach position. He was also ditched by his IPL team because he was so trash.
Click to expand...


Waqar , I respect him a lot (a genuine superstar of Pakistan he was); however, at the same time, I dont want him to pick coaching again (which unfortunately he will) unless he works on his man management skills, and try to become a coach. Rather than coming here for a free ride

Misbah , on the other hand was a free loader of Pakistan cricket because of stupidity by 3 better players. He got his due many times, and PCB should never accommodate this person, just because he became captain after spot fixing..I will again reiterate, it was Shahid Afridi who also played a key part in lifting this team from scandals..
 
gazza619 said:
As soon as we loose a few games the media mafia will be out there preaching why is Pakistan not honouring its own legendary players to be consultants.
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How incompetent Misbah was; is there to be seen that he was with the system in and out for last 15 years in decision making capacity;;; and yet not able to add few genuine players in the team in last 2 years

Babar, Hasan, Shaheen, Imam, Rizwan, Sharjeel, Fakhar : were all produced by Mickey and Inzi

so, in last 2.5 years, WTH Misbah really did
 
Philander is a great hire. High IQ player who outperformed and got the best out of his skills. If he can coach that out of others, then that would be great.

Our bowlers struggle to the swing the ball too so maybe he can help with that too.
 
This seems to be getting over-analysed. He's just brought them in for the WC... a short-term boost, I guess, and get the players out of their comfort zone.

Yes, they have no coaching experience, but the reality is nobody with a great coaching CV wants to come at short-notice to coach Pakistan.
 
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Pakistan must have poor team chemistry, that's the only reason this makes sense.

Two foreign retired English speaking players who will make sure that the batsman/bowlers listen to them. Pakistan players cannot ignore them, nor have the English skills to argue with them.
 
Seriously it's hard to understand people's thinking on this forum. Now people have issues with these as well.
Hayden has been with CSK for atleast few years.
 
Atleast with Mathew Hayden we will not have these comical incidents of threatening a coach with a butter knife or refusing to take an ice bath. :yk2
 
Former South Africa pace bowler Vernon Philander was announced as the bowling coach of the Pakistani team for the upcoming ICC T20 World Cup set to begin on October 17. Philander, who bid adieu last year from the international arena, was widely regarded as one of the best exponents of swing bowling. He was crafty and was unplayable if the pitches had a bit of seam movement.

Also, he comes with a huge amount of experience and Pakistani young bowlers will get to learn a lot from the former South African pacer. Philander said that he is excited to work with a group of skillful youngsters in the Pakistan team and is looking forward to working with them. In terms of coaching, the 36-year-old is new but hopes to evolve into the role gradually. He will also be joined by former Australia player Matthew Hayden during the global event.

The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) had also announced Ramiz Raja as the new chief executive on (September 13). It was Raja who had spoken to Philander about the coaching opportunity, which the former pace bowler duly obliged.

“Ramiz obviously called me up and asked if I was interested in joining the Pakistan team. It is a huge opportunity which I couldn’t turn down. It’s also really exciting to work with a group of skillful youngsters,” Philander told IOL Sport.

“Mohammad Hasnain is a really talented young bowler, and of course, there’s the big guy Shaheen Shah Afridi. I saw quite a bit of them during the recent series against South Africa, and I am really excited to be working with them.”

I would love to add value in terms of consistency: Vernon Philander
Philander further opined that he will look to add value and bring some consistency in the Pakistani bowling attack. “I would like to think that I can add value in terms of bringing some form of consistency to this young attack. They are an exciting group, and they also want to head in a direction where they play an attacking brand of cricket which is exciting to be a part of.”

Raja too is optimistic about Philanders’ appointment and feels it will benefit Pakistan cricket “I know him (Philander) well, he understands the nuances of bowling and has a great record in Australia,” he said.

https://www.crictracker.com/an-oppo...ed-to-work-with-skillful-pakistan-youngsters/
 
Ucdkee said:
Atleast with Mathew Hayden we will not have these comical incidents of threatening a coach with a butter knife or refusing to take an ice bath. :yk2
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Well he is a calm headed person who knows how to get runs and worked really hard on his technique especially facing spin bowling in sub-continent..

I think few years ago he had a severe injury to his neck and spine while surfing, which took him months to recover. I hope he is alright and good enough now to sweat out as a coach..
 
I really wanted Dean Jones instead of Misbah. But these guys will fail. Mark my words. We need someone with a bit mature sense like Tom Moody or Andy Flower, and Shoaib Akhtar for our bowlers.
 
My dream team and coaching staff :

Head Coach : Mickey Arthur
Batting : Hayden
Bowling : Philander
Spin bowling : Saqlain (enough of mushy)

Team for T20 :

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Sarfaraz (c)
Harris Sohail
Imad
Shadab
Faheem/ Md. Wasim Jr
Hasan
Amir
Hasnain/Usman Qadir


Test X1:

Shan Masood (c)
Imam Ul Haq
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Fawad Alam
Md. Rizwan (wk)
Faheem Ashraf
Shadab Khan
Hasan Ali
Shaheen Afridi
Numan Ali/ Md. Hasnain


ODI XI:

Fakhar
Sharjeel
Shan Masood
Babar Azam
Md. Rizwan (c)
Harris Sohail
Faheem Ashraf / Shadab Khan
Md. Wasim Jr. / Imad Wasim
Hasan Ali
Md. Amir
Shaheen Afridi
 
iniqbal223 said:
Waqar , I respect him a lot (a genuine superstar of Pakistan he was); however, at the same time, I dont want him to pick coaching again (which unfortunately he will) unless he works on his man management skills, and try to become a coach. Rather than coming here for a free ride

Misbah , on the other hand was a free loader of Pakistan cricket because of stupidity by 3 better players. He got his due many times, and PCB should never accommodate this person, just because he became captain after spot fixing..I will again reiterate, it was Shahid Afridi who also played a key part in lifting this team from scandals..
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Agreed.

Waqar showed his true colours as a serial bottler in the Pakistan v India contests in the 1996 and 2003 WC and also against Australia in the latter tournament where he totally lost it when he deliberately decided to bowl beamers at Symonds.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he never had the patience, composure nor the man management skills to be a Head Coach or even a specialist coach. Yet PCB carry on re-hiring him.

As for Misbah, him and whoever was responsible for his appointment should never be allowed anywhere Pakistan cricket.
 
topspin said:
Agreed.

Waqar showed his true colours as a serial bottler in the Pakistan v India contests in the 1996 and 2003 WC and also against Australia in the latter tournament where he totally lost it when he deliberately decided to bowl beamers at Symonds.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he never had the patience, composure nor the man management skills to be a Head Coach or even a specialist coach. Yet PCB carry on re-hiring him.

As for Misbah, him and whoever was responsible for his appointment should never be allowed anywhere Pakistan cricket.
Click to expand...


Spot on!

Had Waqar in his later years focussed on his bowling , rather than playing petty politics in team from 1999 onwards, he would have ended up much better bowler.
I also does not like bowlers to end up becoming head coach (I might be wrong).. As for bowlers, who was in the game for maximum 10 overs, its very hard for them to think about the game holistically..unless these fast bowlers also used their brains during their playing days. Which unfortunately, Waqar has not. Same goes for Shoaib Akhtar
 
topspin said:
Agreed.

Waqar showed his true colours as a serial bottler in the Pakistan v India contests in the 1996 and 2003 WC and also against Australia in the latter tournament where he totally lost it when he deliberately decided to bowl beamers at Symonds.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he never had the patience, composure nor the man management skills to be a Head Coach or even a specialist coach. Yet PCB carry on re-hiring him.

As for Misbah, him and whoever was responsible for his appointment should never be allowed anywhere Pakistan cricket.
Click to expand...


2009 - 2021 : PCB wasted the entire decade on 2 individuals , Misbah ul Haq and Waqar Younis
 
iniqbal223 said:
Spot on!

Had Waqar in his later years focussed on his bowling , rather than playing petty politics in team from 1999 onwards, he would have ended up much better bowler.
I also does not like bowlers to end up becoming head coach (I might be wrong).. As for bowlers, who was in the game for maximum 10 overs, its very hard for them to think about the game holistically..unless these fast bowlers also used their brains during their playing days. Which unfortunately, Waqar has not. Same goes for Shoaib Akhtar
Click to expand...

What petty politics did he play from 99 onwards? You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
adil79 said:
I really wanted Dean Jones instead of Misbah. But these guys will fail. Mark my words. We need someone with a bit mature sense like Tom Moody or Andy Flower, and Shoaib Akhtar for our bowlers.
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Mature like Shoaib Akhtar? :)))
 
Greenstorm said:
Lack of coaching experience was not my only argument against loser Misbah. Even with 100 years of coaching experience, he should be no where near international setup.
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on top of that lack of critical thinking and planning & strategy- Desis generally poor with these traits. Our rubbish education system and no questioning culture breeds that!
 
I am no Misbah fan but this is very harsh.
Emergence of Rizwan. (Playing him as an opener).
Bringing back Fawad Alam.
Winning Test Series against South Africa, which is not easy given Mickey's struggles in consolidating home series.
 
iniqbal223 said:
My dream team and coaching staff :

Head Coach : Mickey Arthur
Batting : Hayden
Bowling : Philander
Spin bowling : Saqlain (enough of mushy)

Team for T20 :

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Sarfaraz (c)
Harris Sohail
Imad
Shadab
Faheem/ Md. Wasim Jr
Hasan
Amir
Hasnain/Usman Qadir


Test X1:

Shan Masood (c)
Imam Ul Haq
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Fawad Alam
Md. Rizwan (wk)
Faheem Ashraf
Shadab Khan
Hasan Ali
Shaheen Afridi
Numan Ali/ Md. Hasnain


ODI XI:

Fakhar
Sharjeel
Shan Masood
Babar Azam
Md. Rizwan (c)
Harris Sohail
Faheem Ashraf / Shadab Khan
Md. Wasim Jr. / Imad Wasim
Hasan Ali
Md. Amir
Shaheen Afridi
Click to expand...

I expected better lines up from you.
 
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