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Hell in Different Religions...

But those people never believed in Allah . They never considered him as judge. They never believed there was purpose of this life , they believed there intellect is superior and its all story books .

Logically arriving at a conclusion is not "belief". You might call it opinion if you like. And human intellect is the most powerful thing in the known universe and the reason human beings are the ruling species.
 
Logically arriving at a conclusion is not "belief". You might call it opinion if you like. And human intellect is the most powerful thing in the known universe and the reason human beings are the ruling species.

What logic is there in believing that even a small pencil has a creator , but the vast universe , and a complex animal like human has no creator ? Every created thing has a creator.
 
One doesn't have to believe in an idea to critique or discuss it...

your thoughts?

I have mentioned it elsewhere, but it is useful to recount the debate between Al-Qadi `Abdul Jabbaar of the Mu`tazilite sect, and the great Imam of the Sunnis of the time, Abu Ishaq Al-Isfaraayini . When the two met, `AbdulJabbaar said, “Exalted is Allah, who transcends the obscene.” (While this is a sound expression, what he meant to say was that Allah does not create evil. This is blasphemous, because Muslims must believe that Allah is the only creator, as it is stated in the Quran that He created everything, and that no one wills anything except by His Will.)

Imam Al- Isfaraayini (418 AH) realized what he had implied and responded, “Exalted is Allah, who nothing happens in His dominion but by His Will.” The Mu`tazilite then made another attempt and said, “Does our Lord like to be disobeyed?” Al-Isfaraayini quickly replied, “Could He be disobeyed against His Will?” Upon that `Abdul Jabbaar tried again to defeat his adversary and said, “If God denied me guidance, then ruled that I be destroyed for it, has He treated me fairly?” Al-Isfaraayini calmly answered, “If He denied you something that was yours, then He would have been unfair, but if it was not rightfully yours, then Allah does with His creation what He wills.” `Abdul Jabbaar fell silent, and could not argue further. After all, Allah is the true owner of all creation. (V.4/ P. 261-262. Tabaqaat-al-Shafi`iyyat-al-Kubra).

https://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/...nd-reward-him-and-one-a-hindu-and-punish-him/
 
What logic is there in believing that even a small pencil has a creator , but the vast universe , and a complex animal like human has no creator ? Every created thing has a creator.

Then the question which will arise is, then how the Creator got created? So, it is a circular argument, which I don't think will give us a satisfactory answer.

Looking at our natural world, and the evolutionary changes which have happened over the last few billion years of Earth's existence, to me proves that evolution through natural selection over a long period of time played a role in human origin and it's subsequent development rather than some intelligent creator or designer.
 
What logic is there in believing that even a small pencil has a creator , but the vast universe , and a complex animal like human has no creator ? Every created thing has a creator.

Science never says that there is no creator.. it only tries to explain and proof all of creation.
I believe that there might be a creator however I highly doubt that the creator is one from the major religions of this world.

Here is a philosophical question... Did God create us fully knowing what he created? if so than why would he punish us for the exact crime he wanted us to commit when he created us?
Secondly
If God created us with Free Will than he is NOT all knowing, he does not know how we will react in this planet?
My point is, that God cannot be everything you want or claim him to be.
 
Then the question which will arise is, then how the Creator got created? So, it is a circular argument, which I don't think will give us a satisfactory answer.

Looking at our natural world, and the evolutionary changes which have happened over the last few billion years of Earth's existence, to me proves that evolution through natural selection over a long period of time played a role in human origin and it's subsequent development rather than some intelligent creator or designer.

Read my post again.

I said all created thing needs a creator , not everything has a creator.

God is eternal , he is the one who created the creation , time and space and is independent of that.
 
Science never says that there is no creator.. it only tries to explain and proof all of creation.
I believe that there might be a creator however I highly doubt that the creator is one from the major religions of this world.

Here is a philosophical question... Did God create us fully knowing what he created? if so than why would he punish us for the exact crime he wanted us to commit when he created us?
Secondly
If God created us with Free Will than he is NOT all knowing, he does not know how we will react in this planet?
My point is, that God cannot be everything you want or claim him to be.

You are agnostic in belief I suppose ?

I am answering from islamic point of view ( just bear that in mind ) :)

Yes God did know everything before creation. He did not want Humans to commit crimes or sins. He made conscience inside us , we know when we do something wrong. Then he send his messengers with divine books , who propagated his message , not only orally , but also physically , by living amongest us.

Why he cannot be all knowing , with our having free will ? I could not get you.
 
Then the question which will arise is, then how the Creator got created? So, it is a circular argument, which I don't think will give us a satisfactory answer.

Who created Zeus? Humans
Who created Hourus and Ra? Humans
Who created Mardouk? Humans
Who created Ahura Mazda? Humans

So we got the pattern. .. only thing cyclic, is that we discard old gods and adopt new..
 
You are agnostic in belief I suppose ?

I am answering from islamic point of view ( just bear that in mind ) :)

Yes God did know everything before creation. He did not want Humans to commit crimes or sins. He made conscience inside us , we know when we do something wrong. Then he send his messengers with divine books , who propagated his message , not only orally , but also physically , by living amongest us.

Why he cannot be all knowing , with our having free will ? I could not get you.


You are not getting my point
You are saying he is all knowing. You are saying he created us. Muslims also call this life as a test for afterlife.

So if he is all knowing, he already knows how each and every human would react. What is the point of the test.
Secondly, we are his creation, if we have flaws than he created those flaws in us. For lack of better examples, lets assume, you intentionally left a glitch on a software you created, and than you grade your own software with bad grades.. but for what?

I heard some people saying that nothing happens beyond Gods wishes. So I am guessing when a bunch of maniacs run a trucks over a crowded market place or a festival, that is also God's wish?

Since we ourselves have no control and since God controls everything, so why should there be a heaven or a hell? Makes little sense.
 
^ I think God is not all knowing or powerful to control everything. He has his flaws. Hence when he made life on earth, it had lot of glitches like Jealousy, Greed, Gluttony etc.

I don't believe all the bad things are done by Satan. If God was all powerful, he could destroy Satan in no time.

God is only a judge. Has no control over the proceedings. Cannot alter anything. He lets things go just as a spectator and judges on Judgement day. To me only this makes sense.
 
You are not getting my point
You are saying he is all knowing. You are saying he created us. Muslims also call this life as a test for afterlife.

So if he is all knowing, he already knows how each and every human would react. What is the point of the test.
Secondly, we are his creation, if we have flaws than he created those flaws in us. For lack of better examples, lets assume, you intentionally left a glitch on a software you created, and than you grade your own software with bad grades.. but for what?

I heard some people saying that nothing happens beyond Gods wishes. So I am guessing when a bunch of maniacs run a trucks over a crowded market place or a festival, that is also God's wish?

Since we ourselves have no control and since God controls everything, so why should there be a heaven or a hell? Makes little sense.

Allah knows the choice you make, before you make it, but you are still the one who chooses, that is why their is accountability for our choices. e.g. at any one moment in time Allah creates for you multiple choices but you only choose one that is your free will. at this moment in time you have the choice to accept the truth of Islam or reject it and you will be held accountable for it.

When Muslims say Everything happens by Allah will it means Allah creates the action but we choose it mowing people over with a truck is not what Allah likes or instructs us to do, but Allah does create the choice within us to do evil, but does not force us to commit evil.
 
You are not getting my point
You are saying he is all knowing. You are saying he created us. Muslims also call this life as a test for afterlife.

So if he is all knowing, he already knows how each and every human would react. What is the point of the test.
Secondly, we are his creation, if we have flaws than he created those flaws in us. For lack of better examples, lets assume, you intentionally left a glitch on a software you created, and than you grade your own software with bad grades.. but for what?

I heard some people saying that nothing happens beyond Gods wishes. So I am guessing when a bunch of maniacs run a trucks over a crowded market place or a festival, that is also God's wish?

Since we ourselves have no control and since God controls everything, so why should there be a heaven or a hell? Makes little sense.

First of all I am not saying , but Islam says that :)

Fair question , if God already knows how we would fare , why test us. That is because if on the basis of his knowledge he puts people into paradise and Hell , it will make no difference for the Paradise people , but for Helll people , it would be not fair from there perspective , they could easily say , that we should have been tested and send to world , we would have fared better.

What flaws are you exactly speaking about , can you specify a bit. ?

Giving us free will itself is wish of Allah swt.
You control your own actions , Allah swt does not control , he only knows.
 
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