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Historical videos or any historical discussions, controversies

Bigboii

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I didn't see any thread related to history on this forum so I thought this thread could serve that purpose

So any historical hopefully "fun" facts or videos people came across can be shared here

Or any historical questions or "theories" can be shared here

Like mines 😁

Why do you guys think during 15th century lots of great empires were destroyed by new empires who used gun powder (like the mins, Mughals, Spanish against muslims, Ottomans)

Cause during that time archery was a solid option (or even better) than guns
Archer was faster, cheaper and a lil more accurate than guns but still these new empires managed to use guns effectively
 
[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] I would love for you to come to this thread
 
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Prussians (basically Germans) were the most disciplined army in the world (western europe copied s@#$%load of their military drills from them) so I was always fascinated by the fact why they didn't not colonize the rest of the world like their other western European countries
my theory is that they were so busy fighting in Europe that they never had a chance to do actual colonization
 
I loved this particular video cause its covers the early muslim conquest from a "purely" historical POV
 
Indy Neidel has exclusive coverage on the great wars. Check him out in youtube. It is in great detail.
 
Indy Neidel has exclusive coverage on the great wars. Check him out in youtube. It is in great detail.
Anything by Epic History TV is gold.

Watched both channels and I quite liked it

Know the savage part of me is fascinated by wars 😁 which I guess is overly represented in history books so good for me

This WW 1 thing was especially delightful to watch

But I didn't put any of his videos in I would put bronze age video in

https://youtu.be/mF2GGbx9eg4
 
A gay king Allow din khilji defeating possibly one of the greatest war machines (Mongols) and stoping the Mongols from taking, pillaging indian lands is one of the greatest millitary achievements in SC's history imo

And I also loved how he used his lover Malik Kafer to control the court and put his ministers on leesh reminds me of another controversial bit highly influential figure in history Catherine the Great
 
A gay king Allow din khilji defeating possibly one of the greatest war machines (Mongols) and stoping the Mongols from taking, pillaging indian lands is one of the greatest millitary achievements in SC's history imo

And I also loved how he used his lover Malik Kafer to control the court and put his ministers on leesh reminds me of another controversial bit highly influential figure in history Catherine the Great
So United India is one of the few nations in history to stop the Mongols from taking thier lands and what makes this achievement great imo is they had no "major" land barrier or terrione to stop Mongols like Vietnam or Japan

Remember this area of SC is basically flat like pancake so you had to be millitarically on point
 
How accurate are these videos?

Much of history is simply not true eg Columbus 'discovering' America. Muslims invaded Spain etc.
 
For those who have an interest in such things, might find Dan Carlin’s hardcore history podcasts interesting.

He has a talent for narration.
 
How accurate are these videos?

Much of history is simply not true eg Columbus 'discovering' America. Muslims invaded Spain etc.
It's history so just like science you can always have disagreements and some times both parties can be wrong or right

But in the bookish sense I found them to be pretty accurate never found any major mistake know of course you need to read books for details that's a must in history but for a quick overview I think these videos are brilliant
My thing is I watch the videos and if I really like the topic I order it on Kindle

Can I ask which video specifically you think was not accurate?
 
For those who have an interest in such things, might find Dan Carlin’s hardcore history podcasts interesting.

He has a talent for narration.

History Extra podcast that's pretty good too
Hate the British accent :naseem but the content overshadow's it lol
 
History Extra podcast that's pretty good too
Hate the British accent :naseem but the content overshadow's it lol

If you found the above videos interesting, I think you’ll like Dan Carlin. His podcasts can go on for 10 hours.

Start with the wrath of the khans.
 
This same King was made a mockery in the Bollywood film Padmaavat. Had he been a Hindu King from Afghanistan, i am sorry Akhand Bharat, he would have statues in India right now.

I mean that would open a can of worms that I was trying to avoid but I guess it should be addressed

My thing everyone in history is evil and if you're not kingdoms win you over hell even your own blood relatives kill you (just like we saw in the video how he removed the nice guy because he was "weak" )
So he wasn't a nice guy (which was the requirement of his days) sure and if he was living in today's world he would have been the most hated guy in modern world

So he wasn't a "hero" but he wasn't a "villain" either
He did what he had to do to defend his people and kingdom without being a nice guy
 
I mean that would open a can of worms that I was trying to avoid but I guess it should be addressed

My thing everyone in history is evil and if you're not kingdoms win you over hell even your own blood relatives kill you (just like we saw in the video how he removed the nice guy because he was "weak" )
So he wasn't a nice guy (which was the requirement of his days) sure and if he was living in today's world he would have been the most hated guy in modern world

So he wasn't a "hero" but he wasn't a "villain" either
He did what he had to do to defend his people and kingdom without being a nice guy

Thats true, he was not a hero. And he was also not a villain. But he was a competent King, and not the clown that Bollywood made him into.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the Hindu Nationalist consider Afghanistan to be part of Ancient Bharat, but a Muslim King who was born there, or descendant of someone born there is considered a foreign invader.
 
Thats true, he was not a hero. And he was also not a villain. But he was a competent King, and not the clown that Bollywood made him into.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the Hindu Nationalist consider Afghanistan to be part of Ancient Bharat, but a Muslim King who was born there, or descendant of someone born there is considered a foreign invader.
Lol so true I mean you can make him a bad guy but at the very least don't make him a clown I was dead laughing at some of the scenes tbh :vk2

and people are just hypocrites man fr
 
Thats true, he was not a hero. And he was also not a villain. But he was a competent King, and not the clown that Bollywood made him into.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the Hindu Nationalist consider Afghanistan to be part of Ancient Bharat, but a Muslim King who was born there, or descendant of someone born there is considered a foreign invader.

Surprised that such a basic thing bothers you when the answer is obvious. TNT.
 
Was watching Ozark and wanted to know the difference between a redneck and a hillybilly lol both were not derogatory terms and both have Scottish origins.
 
Was watching Ozark and wanted to know the difference between a redneck and a hillybilly lol both were not derogatory terms and both have Scottish origins.
Lol no I don't believe you fr �� have to look at it myself

You know how weird that sounds
 
Was watching Ozark and wanted to know the difference between a redneck and a hillybilly lol both were not derogatory terms and both have Scottish origins.
Lol correct but still so weird :tuq this is literally the most American word out there

Hillbilly
The origin of this American nickname for mountain folk in the Ozarks and in Appalachia comes from Ulster. Ulster-Scottish (The often incorrectly labeled "Scots-Irish") settlers in the hill-country of Appalachia brought their traditional music with them to the new world, and many of their songs and ballads dealt with William, Prince of Orange, who defeated the Catholic King James II of the Stuart family at the Battle of the Boyne, Ireland in 1690.

Supporters of King William were known as Orangemen and Billy Boys and their North American counterparts were soon referred to as hill-billies. It is interesting to note that a traditional song of the Glasgow Rangers football club today begins with the line, 'Hurrah! Hurrah! We are the Billy Boys!' and shares its tune with the famous American Civil War song, Marching Through Georgia.

Stories abound of American National Guard units from Southern states being met upon disembarking in Britain during the First and Second World Wars with that tune, much to their displeasure! One of these stories comes from Colonel Ward Schrantz, a noted historian and native of Carthage, Missouri ative, and veteran of the Mexican - and veteran of the mexican Border Campaign, as well as the First and Second World Wars - documented a story where the US Army's 30th Division, made up of National Guard units from Georgia, North and South Carolina and Tennessee arrived in the United Kingdom...'a waiting British band broke into welcoming American music, and the soldiery, even the 118th Field Artillery and the 105 Medical Battalion from Georgia, broke into laughter.The excellence of intent and the ignorance of the origins of the American music being equally obvious. The welcoming tune was Marching Through Georgia.'

Redneck
The origins of this term are Scottish and refer to supporters of the National Covenant and The Solemn League and Covenant, or Covenanters, largely Lowland Presbyterians, many of whom would flee Scotland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) during persecutions by the British Crown. The Covenanters of 1638 and 1641 signed the documents that stated that Scotland desired the Presbyterian form of church government and would not accept the Church of England as its official state church.

Many Covenanters signed in their own blood and wore red pieces of cloth around their necks as distinctive insignia; hence the term Red neck, which became slang for a Scottish dissenter. One Scottish immigrant, interviewed by the author, remembered a Presbyterian minister, one Dr. Coulter, in Glasgow in the 1940's wearing a red clerical collar - is this symbolic of the rednecks? Since many Ulster-Scottish settlers in America (especially in the South) were Presbyterian, the term was applied to them, and then, later, their Southern descendants. One of the earliest examples of its use comes from 1830, when an author noted that red-neck was a name bestowed upon the Presbyterians. It makes one wonder if the originators of the ever-present redneck jokes are aware of the term's origins?
http://www.tartansauthority.com/global-scots/us-scots-history/hillbillies-and-rednecks/
 
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Two groups of people believe in TNT. Patriotic Pakistanis and hindutvas. It is only the nehruvian idiots who don't believe in it.

You have one less thing to bother now.

Hindutvas believe in TNT but do not admit it. That is probably due to 'munh mein ram ram' thing.
 
It's history so just like science you can always have disagreements and some times both parties can be wrong or right

But in the bookish sense I found them to be pretty accurate never found any major mistake know of course you need to read books for details that's a must in history but for a quick overview I think these videos are brilliant
My thing is I watch the videos and if I really like the topic I order it on Kindle

Can I ask which video specifically you think was not accurate?

I havent watched any yet so was asking if they are worth my time. If they follow much of the 'accepted' history esp regarding the western nation, will mostly be fake.

In the US what are you taught of your nations history? Invaders, killed natives, slavery, etc? Thanksgiving is one strange celebration with its history?
 
Gore Vidal’s documentary on U.S Presidents is a unique take on the historically simple presidential narrative.
 
I havent watched any yet so was asking if they are worth my time. If they follow much of the 'accepted' history esp regarding the western nation, will mostly be fake.

In the US what are you taught of your nations history? Invaders, killed natives, slavery, etc? Thanksgiving is one strange celebration with its history?

Trust me it's not western propoganda almost all of these guys try to be as neutral as one can possibly be and if you have even a little bit of interest in history you would absolutely love these videos

Books in US are a bit more nationalist and bit of a propoganda (ofcourse know a days they can't justify slavery but native Americans are still hard done by our history books honestly speaking) but these videos are not like that it's a proper researched neutral overview of a historical battle or a situation but since the sources used are mostly western it's not 100% neutral but I genuinely think\feel they try very hard to stay neutral
 
Indian money and trade have been killing empires for centuries lol
They become happy and fat after seeing all that dough and just sit around and party while the hungrier guys show up and than the cycle repeats again although there are other reasons too for Ottomans especially (their geography, internal problems in the later parts but with Morroca who knows? Especially if they had it in early 1600s) but this trend is just funny to see

Britain was the only empire that never died off after seeing that kind of money but imo reason was they had whole range of enemies in Europe who kept them on their toes and they never moved into India (with almost no natural enemy except for nomadic afghans who are not known for advancement in millitary tech :butt) what I love about Europe is they didn't quit making wars with each other but they just expanded their countries (colonized), enemies in order to fuel their wars
 
not really a documentary, but if you know the history of the balkans, this is an excellent watch

 
Btw anyone played any of the Total war video games?(the graphics in this video are from that game)
 
Map based videos can be quite informative.
 
It is HEAVILY biased in favor of right-wing conservatism/ libertarianism but Hoover Institution provides some well-researched questions and a new perspective.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3K1WsOyxjao" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
HISTORY: WHAT THE MUGHAL ERA CAN TEACH US

In South Asia today, we see Muslim and Hindu cultures as worlds apart, but this was not always the case in the history of the Subcontinent.

Recently, I read a section of the Akbarnama (Tale of Akbar) where both Hindu and Muslim astrologers were asked to cast the Emperor Akbar’s horoscope. Though I did not bat an eyelid at such an occurrence, I was reminded of a comment made by a student in Pakistan five years ago that has stayed with me ever since: “Mughal badshah asal mein mussalmaan nahin thhe, is liay unko Hinduon say koi masla nahin tha.” [The Mughals had no problem with Hindus since they were not really Muslims.]

Neither at the time nor now do I fault my student for this comment. My student was merely echoing a pervasive viewpoint from his social context far removed from my own intellectual world.

Collaboration and intimacy between Hindus and Muslims is a settled issue amongst Mughal historians, even as communalist politics continues to unsettle South Asia today. However, research findings by Mughal historians are often inaccessible to the public, especially in Pakistan, due to limited resources and avenues for history, education and public discourse. To bridge this gap, here is a viewpoint based on evidence and conclusions from decades of research by Mughal historians in North America, Europe and India.

The Mughals were Muslim rulers who saw no contradiction but sought peace and prosperity in collaboration and intimacy with Hindus and other faith communities. The Mughal state was neither secular nor was Islam its sole state religion. The temptation of imposing the categories of modern South Asian states on the pre-modern past should be avoided.

The Mughals identified as Muslims alongside employing, marrying, and engaging those from other faith communities. They sponsored and participated in rituals and festivals we today associate with Hindus, Zoroastrians and other faiths. This political philosophy was called sulh-i kull (peace with all).

As Muslim rulers, why did the Mughals have no problem with Hindus? There are at least three explanations offered across research in Mughal history:

1) The Mughals became Indian. The first Mughal, Babur, was curious about India’s society and environment, yet nostalgic for his home in Central Asia. Babur particularly longed for Ferghana Valley’s famous peaches, as illustrated by Stephen F. Dale in The Garden of the Eight Paradises. Two generations later, his grandson Akbar was at home in India. He married Hindu Rajput women and made India his emotional world. Akbar requested his court poet Faizi specifically for a story about love in India, leading to the first Persian translation of the Nal Daman, according to historian Muzaffar Alam.

Akbar’s grandson Shah Jahan was three-quarter Rajput by blood. Less than two hundred years later, the last Mughal ruler, Bahadur Shah Zafar II, lamented the loss of his homeland, India, while in exile in Burma in his famous verse: lagta nahin hai dil mera ujrray dayaar mein/Kis ki bani hai ‘aalam-i-na-payedaar mein (My heart has no repose in this isolated valley/ Who has gotten by in a futile world).

Alongside becoming Indian, the Mughals saw no conflict in being of Central Asian origin and also located themselves within broader Persianate and Islamic realms. Azfar Moin has shown in his 2012 work, The Millennial Sovereign, that Mongol descent was key for Mughal claims to divine kingship at the turn of the Islamic millenium. In a recent book, Persianate Selves, Mana Kia illustrates that scholars at the Mughal court saw themselves as part of a shared Persianate geography, transcending the modern national constructions of Iran, India, Afghanistan and Central Asia. Trade, pilgrimage and knowledge provided continued links between the Mughals, their successor states and the larger Islamic world, as several works by Nile Green attest and the forthcoming works of Rishad Choudhury and Usman Hamid will demonstrate. All four identities — Indian, Central Asian, Persianate and Islamic — were hence claimed by the Mughals, without the contestations we would encounter today.

2) Religious difference with Hindus was not a political faultline for the Mughals or preceding Muslim rulers. The Mughals did not view Hindus as their political rivals by virtue of their religion. Mughal rule was characterised by long-lasting curiosity and respect for Indian knowledge systems, alongside collaborative governance with Hindus and other faith communities. On many occasions, the lines of difference were even blurred, as we shall see below. Books in recent years by Audrey Truschke and Rajeev Kinra convincingly show that both Sanskrit knowledge and Brahmin bureaucrats had a high status at the Mughal court. Akbar’s finance minister, Raja Todar Mal, was valued for bringing the best practices of the Rajputs to shape Mughal economic policies.

Aurangzeb’s conflict with Rajput nobles was not religiously motivated, as M. Athar Ali successfully demonstrates in his 1966 book The Mughal Nobility Under Aurangzeb. Rather, Aurangzeb redistributed administrative assignments from the Rajputs to a rising local nobility in the Deccan in order to consolidate his political power. Munis D. Faruqui shows in his 2012 book The Princes of the Mughal Empire 1504–1719 that, for Mughal princes, strengthening local alliances through collaboration and marriage proved to be a make-or-break factor as they contended for the Mughal throne.

Historians have also successfully challenged the notion that mediaeval Muslim conquests of India occurred to wipe out infidels. In A Book of Conquest, Mannan Ahmed Asif argues that the arrival of Muhammad bin Qasim did not obliterate local practices but rather Islamic and Indic political ethics converged in mediaeval Sindh. Earlier, Romila Thapar demonstrates that the looting of Hindu temples was a financially-motivated practice of mediaeval warfare amongst Hindus and Muslims, often to pay mercenary soldiers from temple treasuries. The looting of the Somnath temple by Mahmud of Ghazni in 1026 was, by no means, an exceptional act of violence by a Muslim invader.

3) Islam in Mughal and mediaeval India took many shapes in conversation and contact with a range of local beliefs and practices. Several historians have written about inter-religious and inter-sectarian exchange under the Mughals and in earlier periods. Historian Supriya Gandhi has shown in The Emperor Who Never Was that Dara Shikoh’s political philosophy and personal spirituality were constituted by both Sufi and Vedantic ideas. This was part of a longer tradition of dialogue on philosophical and ethical concerns, between different faith communities at the Mughal court as the work of Corinne Lefevre on the Majalis-i Jahangiri illustrates.

Similarly, there is emerging evidence of Shia and Sunni intellectual collaboration alongside theological debate in Mughal India, as well as interconnections between Sufism and Islamic law. In An Indian Economic & Social History Review, Ali Anooshahr has recently shown that a steady stream of Shia and Sunni scholars from Iran and Central Asia arrived at Mughal and regional courts. A notable example is Mir Fathullah Shirazi, who developed military cannons and contributed to astronomy, law and financial administration. In his forthcoming work, Daniel Jacobius Morgan shows the interconnection between Shariah-minded legalism and Sufi mysticism, through the works of Shah Waliullah’s family.

Moving beyond the Mughal context, in Monsoon Islam, Sebastian Prange illuminates how mediaeval Muslim communities on the Malabar Coast forged varying traditions from other regions in South Asia, based on trade and the environment. In a study from an even earlier period, Finbarr B. Flood illustrates, through changes in architecture, objects and coins, that mediaeval Muslim cultures in South Asia assumed distinct forms based on encounters with regional Hindu and Buddhist practices.

Decades of research on Mughal and mediaeval history disprove an increasingly pervasive viewpoint of cultural incompatibility and religious difference amongst Muslims and Hindus. This misperception was initially perpetuated by colonial policies and solidified by South Asia’s many partitions.

Unfortunately, this misperception has been further strengthened by anti-Muslim sentiments and policies across the border in Modi’s India. Perhaps, the next time nationalists attempt to halt the construction of a Hindu temple in Pakistan or Muslims are maligned and killed for beef consumption and temples are constructed on razed mosque sites in India, we can turn to our shared Mughal past as an alternative model for Muslim-Hindu relations.

Mariam Sabri is a PhD Candidate at the University of California Berkeley, specialising in Mughal history and the history of science

Published in Dawn, EOS, August 23rd, 2020
https://www.dawn.com/news/1575907/history-what-the-mughal-era-can-teach-us
 
I came across some Hindu nationalists (on the internet) claiming that Afghanistan is part of akhand Bharat which I thaught was kinda wrong (not totally but mostly wrong)

Not that you guys are Hindu nationalists but I want some perspective from our indian posters on PP on this issue

cricketjoshilla, romalli rotti, jaded, cricket cartoons, rajdeep, Mesozoic and Gharib aadmi, Giannis (I know you guys are not indians but I think you guys know a bit more about SC history than me so your insight would be much appreciated)
 
HISTORY: WHAT THE MUGHAL ERA CAN TEACH US

In South Asia today, we see Muslim and Hindu cultures as worlds apart, but this was not always the case in the history of the Subcontinent.

Recently, I read a section of the Akbarnama (Tale of Akbar) where both Hindu and Muslim astrologers were asked to cast the Emperor Akbar’s horoscope. Though I did not bat an eyelid at such an occurrence, I was reminded of a comment made by a student in Pakistan five years ago that has stayed with me ever since: “Mughal badshah asal mein mussalmaan nahin thhe, is liay unko Hinduon say koi masla nahin tha.” [The Mughals had no problem with Hindus since they were not really Muslims.]

Neither at the time nor now do I fault my student for this comment. My student was merely echoing a pervasive viewpoint from his social context far removed from my own intellectual world.

Collaboration and intimacy between Hindus and Muslims is a settled issue amongst Mughal historians, even as communalist politics continues to unsettle South Asia today. However, research findings by Mughal historians are often inaccessible to the public, especially in Pakistan, due to limited resources and avenues for history, education and public discourse. To bridge this gap, here is a viewpoint based on evidence and conclusions from decades of research by Mughal historians in North America, Europe and India.

The Mughals were Muslim rulers who saw no contradiction but sought peace and prosperity in collaboration and intimacy with Hindus and other faith communities. The Mughal state was neither secular nor was Islam its sole state religion. The temptation of imposing the categories of modern South Asian states on the pre-modern past should be avoided.

The Mughals identified as Muslims alongside employing, marrying, and engaging those from other faith communities. They sponsored and participated in rituals and festivals we today associate with Hindus, Zoroastrians and other faiths. This political philosophy was called sulh-i kull (peace with all).

As Muslim rulers, why did the Mughals have no problem with Hindus? There are at least three explanations offered across research in Mughal history:

1) The Mughals became Indian. The first Mughal, Babur, was curious about India’s society and environment, yet nostalgic for his home in Central Asia. Babur particularly longed for Ferghana Valley’s famous peaches, as illustrated by Stephen F. Dale in The Garden of the Eight Paradises. Two generations later, his grandson Akbar was at home in India. He married Hindu Rajput women and made India his emotional world. Akbar requested his court poet Faizi specifically for a story about love in India, leading to the first Persian translation of the Nal Daman, according to historian Muzaffar Alam.

Akbar’s grandson Shah Jahan was three-quarter Rajput by blood. Less than two hundred years later, the last Mughal ruler, Bahadur Shah Zafar II, lamented the loss of his homeland, India, while in exile in Burma in his famous verse: lagta nahin hai dil mera ujrray dayaar mein/Kis ki bani hai ‘aalam-i-na-payedaar mein (My heart has no repose in this isolated valley/ Who has gotten by in a futile world).

Alongside becoming Indian, the Mughals saw no conflict in being of Central Asian origin and also located themselves within broader Persianate and Islamic realms. Azfar Moin has shown in his 2012 work, The Millennial Sovereign, that Mongol descent was key for Mughal claims to divine kingship at the turn of the Islamic millenium. In a recent book, Persianate Selves, Mana Kia illustrates that scholars at the Mughal court saw themselves as part of a shared Persianate geography, transcending the modern national constructions of Iran, India, Afghanistan and Central Asia. Trade, pilgrimage and knowledge provided continued links between the Mughals, their successor states and the larger Islamic world, as several works by Nile Green attest and the forthcoming works of Rishad Choudhury and Usman Hamid will demonstrate. All four identities — Indian, Central Asian, Persianate and Islamic — were hence claimed by the Mughals, without the contestations we would encounter today.

2) Religious difference with Hindus was not a political faultline for the Mughals or preceding Muslim rulers. The Mughals did not view Hindus as their political rivals by virtue of their religion. Mughal rule was characterised by long-lasting curiosity and respect for Indian knowledge systems, alongside collaborative governance with Hindus and other faith communities. On many occasions, the lines of difference were even blurred, as we shall see below. Books in recent years by Audrey Truschke and Rajeev Kinra convincingly show that both Sanskrit knowledge and Brahmin bureaucrats had a high status at the Mughal court. Akbar’s finance minister, Raja Todar Mal, was valued for bringing the best practices of the Rajputs to shape Mughal economic policies.

Aurangzeb’s conflict with Rajput nobles was not religiously motivated, as M. Athar Ali successfully demonstrates in his 1966 book The Mughal Nobility Under Aurangzeb. Rather, Aurangzeb redistributed administrative assignments from the Rajputs to a rising local nobility in the Deccan in order to consolidate his political power. Munis D. Faruqui shows in his 2012 book The Princes of the Mughal Empire 1504–1719 that, for Mughal princes, strengthening local alliances through collaboration and marriage proved to be a make-or-break factor as they contended for the Mughal throne.

Historians have also successfully challenged the notion that mediaeval Muslim conquests of India occurred to wipe out infidels. In A Book of Conquest, Mannan Ahmed Asif argues that the arrival of Muhammad bin Qasim did not obliterate local practices but rather Islamic and Indic political ethics converged in mediaeval Sindh. Earlier, Romila Thapar demonstrates that the looting of Hindu temples was a financially-motivated practice of mediaeval warfare amongst Hindus and Muslims, often to pay mercenary soldiers from temple treasuries. The looting of the Somnath temple by Mahmud of Ghazni in 1026 was, by no means, an exceptional act of violence by a Muslim invader.

3) Islam in Mughal and mediaeval India took many shapes in conversation and contact with a range of local beliefs and practices. Several historians have written about inter-religious and inter-sectarian exchange under the Mughals and in earlier periods. Historian Supriya Gandhi has shown in The Emperor Who Never Was that Dara Shikoh’s political philosophy and personal spirituality were constituted by both Sufi and Vedantic ideas. This was part of a longer tradition of dialogue on philosophical and ethical concerns, between different faith communities at the Mughal court as the work of Corinne Lefevre on the Majalis-i Jahangiri illustrates.

Similarly, there is emerging evidence of Shia and Sunni intellectual collaboration alongside theological debate in Mughal India, as well as interconnections between Sufism and Islamic law. In An Indian Economic & Social History Review, Ali Anooshahr has recently shown that a steady stream of Shia and Sunni scholars from Iran and Central Asia arrived at Mughal and regional courts. A notable example is Mir Fathullah Shirazi, who developed military cannons and contributed to astronomy, law and financial administration. In his forthcoming work, Daniel Jacobius Morgan shows the interconnection between Shariah-minded legalism and Sufi mysticism, through the works of Shah Waliullah’s family.

Moving beyond the Mughal context, in Monsoon Islam, Sebastian Prange illuminates how mediaeval Muslim communities on the Malabar Coast forged varying traditions from other regions in South Asia, based on trade and the environment. In a study from an even earlier period, Finbarr B. Flood illustrates, through changes in architecture, objects and coins, that mediaeval Muslim cultures in South Asia assumed distinct forms based on encounters with regional Hindu and Buddhist practices.

Decades of research on Mughal and mediaeval history disprove an increasingly pervasive viewpoint of cultural incompatibility and religious difference amongst Muslims and Hindus. This misperception was initially perpetuated by colonial policies and solidified by South Asia’s many partitions.

Unfortunately, this misperception has been further strengthened by anti-Muslim sentiments and policies across the border in Modi’s India. Perhaps, the next time nationalists attempt to halt the construction of a Hindu temple in Pakistan or Muslims are maligned and killed for beef consumption and temples are constructed on razed mosque sites in India, we can turn to our shared Mughal past as an alternative model for Muslim-Hindu relations.

Mariam Sabri is a PhD Candidate at the University of California Berkeley, specialising in Mughal history and the history of science

Published in Dawn, EOS, August 23rd, 2020
https://www.dawn.com/news/1575907/history-what-the-mughal-era-can-teach-us

KB first posted this article on a different thread but after reading the article I thought this would be a perfect addition for this thread

Thanks KB and I hope you post stuff on this thread too

Btw I REALLY enjoy reading your posts man!
 
I came across some Hindu nationalists (on the internet) claiming that Afghanistan is part of akhand Bharat which I thaught was kinda wrong (not totally but mostly wrong)

Not that you guys are Hindu nationalists but I want some perspective from our indian posters on PP on this issue

cricketjoshilla, romalli rotti, jaded, cricket cartoons, rajdeep, Mesozoic and Gharib aadmi, Giannis (I know you guys are not indians but I think you guys know a bit more about SC history than me so your insight would be much appreciated)

Some Hindu Nationalist consider Afghanistan to be part of Akhand Bharat because they consider South Asia to be one historical country, that might not have been politically united, but it was culturally united.

And as one time the religion of the people in Afghanistan was Buddhist, and Hindu, its part of historic Bharat to them.

However others dont extend the borders of Ancient Bharat that far.

Also Hindu Nationalist also believe that to be a true native to India, your religion and language must originate in the region. So as Islam did not originate in Afghanistan, once that region became Muslim, and Kings from there invaded North India, they are seen as "foreign invaders". Had those Kings been Hindu they would have seen them as Indian.
 
Some Hindu Nationalist consider Afghanistan to be part of Akhand Bharat because they consider South Asia to be one historical country, that might not have been politically united, but it was culturally united.

And as one time the religion of the people in Afghanistan was Buddhist, and Hindu, its part of historic Bharat to them.

However others dont extend the borders of Ancient Bharat that far.

Also Hindu Nationalist also believe that to be a true native to India, your religion and language must originate in the region. So as Islam did not originate in Afghanistan, once that region became Muslim, and Kings from there invaded North India, they are seen as "foreign invaders". Had those Kings been Hindu they would have seen them as Indian.
I started a different thread because after researching this topic I thaught this is not a purely historical issue so it deserves a new thread
 
HISTORY: WHAT THE MUGHAL ERA CAN TEACH US

Alongside becoming Indian, the Mughals saw no conflict in being of Central Asian origin and also located themselves within broader Persianate and Islamic realms. Azfar Moin has shown in his 2012 work, The Millennial Sovereign, that Mongol descent was key for Mughal claims to divine kingship at the turn of the Islamic millenium. In a recent book, Persianate Selves, Mana Kia illustrates that scholars at the Mughal court saw themselves as part of a shared Persianate geography, transcending the modern national constructions of Iran, India, Afghanistan and Central Asia. Trade, pilgrimage and knowledge provided continued links between the Mughals, their successor states and the larger Islamic world, as several works by Nile Green attest and the forthcoming works of Rishad Choudhury and Usman Hamid will demonstrate. All four identities — Indian, Central Asian, Persianate and Islamic — were hence claimed by the Mughals, without the contestations we would encounter today.


Historians have also successfully challenged the notion that mediaeval Muslim conquests of India occurred to wipe out infidels. In A Book of Conquest, Mannan Ahmed Asif argues that the arrival of Muhammad bin Qasim did not obliterate local practices but rather Islamic and Indic political ethics converged in mediaeval Sindh. Earlier, Romila Thapar demonstrates that the looting of Hindu temples was a financially-motivated practice of mediaeval warfare amongst Hindus and Muslims, often to pay mercenary soldiers from temple treasuries. The looting of the Somnath temple by Mahmud of Ghazni in 1026 was, by no means, an exceptional act of violence by a Muslim invader.


Moving beyond the Mughal context, in Monsoon Islam, Sebastian Prange illuminates how mediaeval Muslim communities on the Malabar Coast forged varying traditions from other regions in South Asia, based on trade and the environment. In a study from an even earlier period, Finbarr B. Flood illustrates, through changes in architecture, objects and coins, that mediaeval Muslim cultures in South Asia assumed distinct forms based on encounters with regional Hindu and Buddhist practices.


Unfortunately, this misperception has been further strengthened by anti-Muslim sentiments and policies across the border in Modi’s India. Perhaps, the next time nationalists attempt to halt the construction of a Hindu temple in Pakistan or Muslims are maligned and killed for beef consumption and temples are constructed on razed mosque sites in India, we can turn to our shared Mughal past as an alternative model for Muslim-Hindu relations.

Mariam Sabri is a PhD Candidate at the University of California Berkeley, specialising in Mughal history and the history of science

Published in Dawn, EOS, August 23rd, 2020
https://www.dawn.com/news/1575907/history-what-the-mughal-era-can-teach-us

This culture which combined Indian, Central Asian, Persian, and Islamic influences, is now mostly followed by Muslims who speak Indo-Aryan languages. A majority of Hindus, who speak these languages, want to go back to the culture that existed before Muslims came to subcontinent. There is nothing wrong with that. Muslims need to respect their choice, and they should respect Muslims choice of wanting to keep this culture.

The two nation theory did not come out of thin air. The founding fathers of India and Pakistan were both liberal. Yet they both choose drastically different cultural symbols. India choose per-Islamic heritage of subcontinent. And Pakistan choose symbols reflecting Muslim heritage of the subcontinent.
 
Yes I will ruin your child hood memories of the disney movie!!! :yuvi
 
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