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Honda Electric Vehicle Prototype, Tesla's days are numbered

Syed1

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They couldn't quite achieve what they promised in the concept, but still it looks AMAZING. Honda successfully managed to pull off a retro look in a futuristic style. Since it is a Honda you can rest assured about its safety and reliability. The only thing I want to know is the eventual pricetag. Hope it is within reach of average consumer, not much more expensive than a Honda Civic. That will surely kill the Tesla.
 
Ridiculous thread. Tesla is already a established brand and with the launch of its model 3 its well on its way to gaining a foothold in the mid tier market. Electric vehicles from well established brands already exist in the market so I don't see how you have come up with this conclusion.
 
Ridiculous thread. Tesla is already a established brand and with the launch of its model 3 its well on its way to gaining a foothold in the mid tier market. Electric vehicles from well established brands already exist in the market so I don't see how you have come up with this conclusion.

Tesla is more established than Honda?


This is the first time where a mass production car manufacturer is challenging Tesla.
 
Norway has probably the highest share of El-vehicles in whole World so let's see how this car is welcomed.

At the moment the most purchased one here is Nissan Leaf followed by VW E-golf, BMW i3 and Tesla of course.

Norwegians, when they get used to one type of car, it's very difficult to change that.
 
Every OEM has plans to bring out a electric vehicle in the next 5 years. I personally don't think anyone can match tesla in this market, they are far ahead of everyone in terms of engineering talent needed to make a affordable electric car. It will take legacy automakers another 10 years to make something remotely close to Model 3.
 
Tesla is more established than Honda?


This is the first time where a mass production car manufacturer is challenging Tesla.

Once again Tesla isn't going anywhere. Don't understand why you would predict its demise when you can't even present a reasonable argument other than mentioning Honda.
 
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The electric car is over 100 years old, if it wasn't for the Ford T model, we'd be driving Electric cars.

There are 2 problems with Electric cars

1. Range
2. Oil. (Petro Dollar)

Remove dependency on oil, and it's not just companies, but governments that stand to lose everything.

This simply means that the powers to be will push fossil fuel engines.
 
Once again Tesla isn't going anywhere. Don't understand why you would predict its demise when you can't even present a reasonable argument other than mentioning Honda.

I'm doing a masters in self driving technology for electric vehicles, I work at General Motors writing software that drive your car.


I think I might know a thing or two about cars. :uakmal
 
I'm doing a masters in self driving technology for electric vehicles, I work at General Motors writing software that drive your car.


I think I might know a thing or two about cars. :uakmal

Not sure how that is relevant. I've worked on self-driving cars at Uber ATG. That doesn't give me much credibility in predicting the decline of a company.
 
This is one cool looking electric car. Hopefully honda and toyota and take over the electric car game because they excel in reliability. I dont think Tesla is very reliable, or not as much as honda and toyota will be in this endeavor. I heard a prediction from some conspiracy theorists that Tesla will soon go bankrupt and this year you should sell your stocks of Tesla. We will see....
 
Not sure how that is relevant. I've worked on self-driving cars at Uber ATG. That doesn't give me much credibility in predicting the decline of a company.

Alot of people still do not trust Tesla because it is still seen as a "start-up" with an eccentric boss. That is why the Tesla Model 3 is not flying off the racks so to speak. If Honda and Toyota develop an affordable electric car that is not a complete piece of junk and can actually compete with the Model 3, then the average consumer would prefer that over the Tesla, just because of the legacy of these cars and the availability of parts and reliability.

A guy did a holistic analysis on the Tesla and it was revealed that they didn't follow any design standards, heck they had 14 different sizes of bolts in the car. Ask any Tesla owner, if their car breaks down or needs to go for repair it is an absolute nightmare. Wait let me dig up that video:





Now if Honda or Toyota make a car they won't the mistakes that are listed in the video above.
 
Tesla will be bankrupt in a year. I live 10 minutes away from its factory in Fremont (Silicon Valley) and you can't pay a blue collar wage to workers in the most expensive metropolitan area in US and expect to retain them.

Tesla doesn't have anything proprietary nor innovative that will give it a competitive advantage and it hasn't figured out the basic automobile manufacturing economics. It still hasn't established manufacturing efficiencies, something established big automakers have perfected over a century of trial and error. It margins on its top of the line models are similar to margins big autos make on their cheaper models, which is a losing proposition. Lastly, battery powered cars are not the future, much like gas powered vehicles its dependent on a finite nonrenewable material i.e. lithium and there is no breakthrough in battery technology on the horizon.

If I was a investor in Tesla, I'd get out.
 
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This is one cool looking electric car. Hopefully honda and toyota and take over the electric car game because they excel in reliability. I dont think Tesla is very reliable, or not as much as honda and toyota will be in this endeavor. I heard a prediction from some conspiracy theorists that Tesla will soon go bankrupt and this year you should sell your stocks of Tesla. We will see....

Thing with Tesla most people don't realize is that they are not just a car company. They have a highly successful power portfolio that already is a game changer. I know of some Tesla battery storage projects that were very successful, like the one in Australia where it's saved local government like ~$65M and reduced blackouts. They are also working on projects worth billions with cities like NY that can defer investments for new substations to meeting growing demand by using battery storage tech. If you add this with their solar tiles/panels business, you have a company that has a monopoly over renewable energy storage and generation. That is a huge market. But, I agree that alot of promises are made and I have heard a lot over the past year or so but non of that has translated to bringing their stock price up so let's wait and see.
 
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Thing with Tesla most people don't realize is that they are not just a car company. They have a highly successful power portfolio that already is a game changer. I know of some Tesla battery storage projects that were very successful, like the one in Australia where it's saved local government like ~$65M and reduced blackouts. They are also working on projects worth billions with cities like NY that can defer investments for new substations to meeting growing demand by using battery storage tech. If you add this with their solar tiles/panels business, you have a company that has a monopoly over renewable energy storage and generation. That is a huge market. But, I agree that alot of promises are made and I have heard a lot over the past year or so but non of that has translated to bringing their stock price up so let's wait and see.

I went to a talk in 2017 it was by some Canadian professor who was hired by Tesla as their battery guru and the things he was talking about that are ongoing at Tesla were definitely eye-opening. Tesla is WAY ahead of its competition in terms of battery technology, but as mentioned above, batteries use a finite resource Lithium (as well as Cobalt) so renewable energy isn't exactly renewable at the moment.
 
Their power portfolio is actually not that impressive, nobody is buying their solar shingles and their rooftop systems are the most expensive ones out there. Musk bailed out his cousin when he acquired SolarCity which was on the verge of bankruptcy.
 
I went to a talk in 2017 it was by some Canadian professor who was hired by Tesla as their battery guru and the things he was talking about that are ongoing at Tesla were definitely eye-opening. Tesla is WAY ahead of its competition in terms of battery technology, but as mentioned above, batteries use a finite resource Lithium (as well as Cobalt) so renewable energy isn't exactly renewable at the moment.

It isn't but it's better than the alternative and it is definitely the future. Regulators want to see less ICE and more EV.


Going off topic here but another tech to look out for is battery powered VTOL, which I think has a more realistic chance of success than AV. I think by 2030 we will start to see flying cars or taxis, which is the only way to reduce traffic congestion in the cities.
 
I'm doing a masters in self driving technology for electric vehicles, I work at General Motors writing software that drive your car.


I think I might know a thing or two about cars. :uakmal

Don't see how this proves the upcoming demise of Tesla.
 
you must be on opium to think teslas days are numbered especially by Honda, tesla is just getting started and will continue to grow and grow atleast till Elon Musk is alive
 
Apple and oranges, enthusiasts will go for Tesla while honda going to cater commercial audience . Tesla is a luxury car just to be clear and honda isn't.
 
Tesla will be bankrupt in a year. I live 10 minutes away from its factory in Fremont (Silicon Valley) and you can't pay a blue collar wage to workers in the most expensive metropolitan area in US and expect to retain them.

Tesla doesn't have anything proprietary nor innovative that will give it a competitive advantage and it hasn't figured out the basic automobile manufacturing economics. It still hasn't established manufacturing efficiencies, something established big automakers have perfected over a century of trial and error. It margins on its top of the line models are similar to margins big autos make on their cheaper models, which is a losing proposition. Lastly, battery powered cars are not the future, much like gas powered vehicles its dependent on a finite nonrenewable material i.e. lithium and there is no breakthrough in battery technology on the horizon.

If I was a investor in Tesla, I'd get out.

I went to a talk in 2017 it was by some Canadian professor who was hired by Tesla as their battery guru and the things he was talking about that are ongoing at Tesla were definitely eye-opening. Tesla is WAY ahead of its competition in terms of battery technology, but as mentioned above, batteries use a finite resource Lithium (as well as Cobalt) so renewable energy isn't exactly renewable at the moment.

You guys do realize that the lithium in a car battery is not actually consumed, but can be recycled when the old battery is replaced?

Lithium will not be the bottleneck:

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/08/lithium-20110803.html
 
I think its a retro looking cool car. I would definately be tempted to may be lease one of these :) Each to their own I guess.

Aesthetically, it is an embarrassment compared to Tesla. Nevertheless, different strokes for different folks.
 
Barclays on Tuesday cut its price target on Tesla (TSLA) shares, saying recent strategic decisions by the company undercut the firm's bull case, which had positioned the electric vehicle and energy products manufacturer as the Apple (AAPL) of the car world.

The investment bank sees the stock price falling to $192 per share, down 9 percent from its prior target at $210. At that level, Barclays now expects shares of Tesla to tumble nearly a third from their closing price of $285.36 on Monday.

The average price target on Tesla shares is $339.21, according to FactSet. Barclays' view makes it one of the most bearish firms on Wall Street.

The catalyst for the reduction is the sooner-than-expected rollout of Tesla's long-awaited $35,000 Model 3 and the decision to shutter most of its dealerships.

"Much of the bull narrative has rested on Tesla being the next Apple, selling high-volume EVs at premium price point and at high gross margins, in part aided by a unique branded retail presence — a narrative we see as undermined by the recent price cuts and closing of most of the stores," Barclays auto analysts Brian Johnson and Steven Hempel said in a research note.

The analysts believe the company is unlikely to offset lower profit margins with increased sales volumes and cost savings. They say the bull case is now shifting to Tesla becoming the next Amazon (AMZN): undercutting comparable luxury sedans and gaining an advantage over rivals by selling online rather than at brick-and-mortar locations.

But Barclays is not buying it: "Contrary to the bull arguments, we believe the sooner than expected announcement of the $35K model 3, rather than reflecting dramatic progress on manufacturing and distribution costs, likely reflects the need to replenish cash after the convert repayment, perhaps exacerbated by the weak first two months of US sales."

Barclays says Tesla must now sell a lot more electric vehicles to offset lower gross margins, while the automaker's goal to market a disruptive low-cost "car for the masses" like Ford's Model T "calls into question long-term margin and multiple assumptions in the bull thesis."

https://news.yahoo.com/tesla-no-apple-cutting-prices-133300983.html
 
Tesla shares have surged to their highest levels since February, after it told investors that manufacturing at its Chinese factory and plans for its next model were ahead of schedule.

The firm also reported an unexpected profit of $143m (£110.7m) for the three months to 30 September.

That beat forecasts, but was down more than 50% from a year earlier.

Shares in the electric carmaker jumped by more than 17% in after-hours trade to about $300 apiece.

Tesla has struggled with years of losses, fuelling investor doubts and casting a shadow over the shares in recent years.

The firm has yet to turn an annual profit, although it recorded positive results in the final two quarters of 2018.

Last year, the company took aggressive steps to slash expense, cutting thousands of jobs and reining in other spending.

In the most recent quarter, operating expenses fell about 15% year-on-year to $930m, lifting the firm's bottom line, despite a modest decline in revenue.

In Wednesday's earnings release, the company said it expected to remain profitable in the future with "possible temporary exceptions" around the launch of new products.

The firm said it was "highly confident" it would deliver more than 360,000 vehicles this year - in line with previous estimates.

The company is betting on major success in China, the world's biggest car market. Sales there had been hurt by tariffs triggered by the US-China trade war.

Tesla said trial production had already started at its factory in Shanghai, the first wholly foreign-owned plant in the country. However, it still needs additional government sign-off before full production gets underway, it said.

"We have cleared initial milestones toward our manufacturing license and are working towards finalising the license and meeting other governmental requirements," it said.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50159963.
 
I'm doing a masters in self driving technology for electric vehicles, I work at General Motors writing software that drive your car.


I think I might know a thing or two about cars. :uakmal

Nice profession. Would have loved to involve in that had I chose engineering after 12th class.

I saw one YouTube video where the Tesla didn't have sensors in the side in the rear door. The guys put cucumber and the door even cut it. I hope, in the next version they did rectify it.
 
AMSTERDAM: Japanese car-making giant Honda announced on Wednesday it will speed up plans to have electric options for all new car models for the European market by 2022, as it launched its latest hybrid.

But the world’s seventh-largest car maker said there were no current plans to build any new models in Europe, following its announcement in February that it was closing its UK-based plant in Swindon.

“Our full line-up will be electrified by 2022,” said Tom Gardner, Honda’s senior vice president in Europe.

“Customers are quite quickly moving towards cleaner, more efficient vehicles,” with the rapid electrification of Europe at the forefront of Honda’s business strategy, Gardner told AFP in an interview.

Honda unveiled its latest model of its popular Jazz hatchback, one of six new models planned for the European market, at an event held in Amsterdam.

The new two-motor hybrid Jazz will be available for European markets by mid-2020, Gardner said, with the roll-out of five other models planned by 2022.

Source: https://www.dawn.com/news/1512649/honda-to-electrify-car-models-in-europe.
 
Teslas days aren't numbered. That's like saying the new Honda Accord will take over Porsche. They're completely different. One is more expensive and appeals to people with money. The other is for the masses who can't afford a Tesla.
 
Tesla is more established than Honda?


This is the first time where a mass production car manufacturer is challenging Tesla.

Lol, every manufacturer has tried to be Tesla's 'nightmare', they are way ahead in infrastructure.
 
This car looks like those street vehicles in Midtown Madness. So ugly.

Also I sorta agree with OP. Tesla isn't exactly affordable and it only recently turned a profit.
Still shaky waters but there is huge potential because of the visionary that is Elon Musk.
 
Tesla shares have surged to their highest levels since February, after it told investors that manufacturing at its Chinese factory and plans for its next model were ahead of schedule.

The firm also reported an unexpected profit of $143m (£110.7m) for the three months to 30 September.

That beat forecasts, but was down more than 50% from a year earlier.

Shares in the electric carmaker jumped by more than 17% in after-hours trade to about $300 apiece.

Tesla has struggled with years of losses, fuelling investor doubts and casting a shadow over the shares in recent years.

The firm has yet to turn an annual profit, although it recorded positive results in the final two quarters of 2018.

Last year, the company took aggressive steps to slash expense, cutting thousands of jobs and reining in other spending.

In the most recent quarter, operating expenses fell about 15% year-on-year to $930m, lifting the firm's bottom line, despite a modest decline in revenue.

In Wednesday's earnings release, the company said it expected to remain profitable in the future with "possible temporary exceptions" around the launch of new products.

The firm said it was "highly confident" it would deliver more than 360,000 vehicles this year - in line with previous estimates.

The company is betting on major success in China, the world's biggest car market. Sales there had been hurt by tariffs triggered by the US-China trade war.

Tesla said trial production had already started at its factory in Shanghai, the first wholly foreign-owned plant in the country. However, it still needs additional government sign-off before full production gets underway, it said.

"We have cleared initial milestones toward our manufacturing license and are working towards finalising the license and meeting other governmental requirements," it said.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50159963.
 
Tesla's chief executive, Elon Musk, has said Berlin will be the site of its first European factory as the carmaker's expansion plans power ahead.

Mr Musk said the firm would also build an engineering and design centre in the German capital.

Tesla previously said it aimed to start production in Europe in 2021.

The moves come as the firm, which has also invested heavily in a Chinese factory, faces intensifying competition in the electric vehicle industry.

Mr Musk made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Germany on Tuesday.

"Everyone knows that German engineering is outstanding and that's part of the reason we are locating our Gigafactory Europe in Germany," he said.

Mr Musk said the facility would be located near the new Berlin airport and later gave more details on what the factory would produce on Twitter.

Skip Twitter post by @elonmuskEnd of Twitter post by @elonmusk
The focus on Germany comes amid rising appetite for electric cars in Europe.

Over the coming years, the biggest electric car production plants will be in Germany, France, Spain and Italy, industry analysis showed.

Some 16 large-scale lithium-ion battery cell plants are confirmed or due to begin operations in Europe by 2023.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50400068.
 
wow. This car is so damn ugly. I bet its priced really cheap otherwise it will crash. This is not competition for Tesla its probably a low end electric vehicle whereas, Tesla is more on the luxury side.
 
A Chinese car battery-maker says it is ready to manufacture a product capable of powering a vehicle for 1.2 million miles (two million kilometres) across the course of a 16-year lifespan.

By contrast, most automakers only offer warranties ranging from 60,000 to 150,000 miles over a three to eight-year period on their cars' batteries.

Contemporary Amperex Technology has not revealed who it intends to supply.

But it was previously reported that the battery was co-developed with Tesla.

The latest news was revealed in an interview Catl's chairman gave to the Bloomberg news agency.

"If someone places an order, we are ready to produce," it quoted Zeng Yuqun as saying.

He added that it was set, however, to cost a 10% premium over the batteries it already supplies.

The company signed a two-year deal to supply batteries for Tesla's Model 3 cars in February. Its other clients include BMW, Daimler, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Volvo.

Demand for electric vehicles is growing.

The European market for EVs and plug-in hybrids grew by 72% in the first three months of the year compared to the same period in 2019, representing 7% of all delivered new cars, according to research firm Canalys.

By contrast, the pandemic weighed on the wider market, which as a whole saw deliveries down by 26% for the quarter.

The firm said that Catl's claim was "significant but difficult to verify".

"It is likely to be used as a differentiator by some car-makers when there is a significant difference from one vehicle to another - dramatically affecting resale value," said Canalys's chief automotive analyst Chris Jones.

He added that this and other factors - including the wider availability of charging points and longer driving ranges - should help tempt more motorists to make the switch to an electric car.

Scrappage scheme

In February, the Transport Secretary Grant Shapps told the BBC that the UK might ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars as soon as 2032, to help meet the UK's zero-carbon emission targets.

The Sunday Telegraph reported yesterday that the government is considering offering drivers up to £6,000 to swap their existing cars for electric models next month as part of efforts to boost the UK's electric car manufacturing industry.

The Nissan Leaf and Mini Electric are made locally, and Property Week has reported that Tesla is also considering opening its own "gigafactory" car battery plant in England.

However, Catl's own European efforts are currently focused on Germany, where it is building a factory in the eastern town of Erfurt, which is scheduled to start producing lithium-ion car batteries in 2021.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52966178
 
Barclays on Tuesday cut its price target on Tesla (TSLA) shares, saying recent strategic decisions by the company undercut the firm's bull case, which had positioned the electric vehicle and energy products manufacturer as the Apple (AAPL) of the car world.

The investment bank sees the stock price falling to $192 per share, down 9 percent from its prior target at $210. At that level, Barclays now expects shares of Tesla to tumble nearly a third from their closing price of $285.36 on Monday.

The average price target on Tesla shares is $339.21, according to FactSet. Barclays' view makes it one of the most bearish firms on Wall Street.

The catalyst for the reduction is the sooner-than-expected rollout of Tesla's long-awaited $35,000 Model 3 and the decision to shutter most of its dealerships.

"Much of the bull narrative has rested on Tesla being the next Apple, selling high-volume EVs at premium price point and at high gross margins, in part aided by a unique branded retail presence — a narrative we see as undermined by the recent price cuts and closing of most of the stores," Barclays auto analysts Brian Johnson and Steven Hempel said in a research note.

The analysts believe the company is unlikely to offset lower profit margins with increased sales volumes and cost savings. They say the bull case is now shifting to Tesla becoming the next Amazon (AMZN): undercutting comparable luxury sedans and gaining an advantage over rivals by selling online rather than at brick-and-mortar locations.

But Barclays is not buying it: "Contrary to the bull arguments, we believe the sooner than expected announcement of the $35K model 3, rather than reflecting dramatic progress on manufacturing and distribution costs, likely reflects the need to replenish cash after the convert repayment, perhaps exacerbated by the weak first two months of US sales."

Barclays says Tesla must now sell a lot more electric vehicles to offset lower gross margins, while the automaker's goal to market a disruptive low-cost "car for the masses" like Ford's Model T "calls into question long-term margin and multiple assumptions in the bull thesis."

https://news.yahoo.com/tesla-no-apple-cutting-prices-133300983.html

What Barclays didn't realize was Fed keeps pumping money although they (Barclays) were either not informed about Tesla's projects in China or preferred to ignore it even before Covid the stock skyrocketed and now Fed made sure it didn't go bankrupt inspite of shutdowns.
 
With oil so cheap and plentiful I don’t see how electric vehicles will compete
 
With oil so cheap and plentiful I don’t see how electric vehicles will compete

Oil is back up again as the Saudis and Russia cut production. Obviously the Saudis cannot survive on $20/b oil, so they will cut production as much as necessary to keep the price at $30/b+. However that will spell their doom as electric cars replace the ICE.

Ford's market cap is $30b, GM is $44b, and Honda is $48b. That adds up to a grand total of $122b.

How much is Tesla's market cap? $176b!!! Almost equal to Toyota's $180b.

Add BMW to Ford, GM and Honda, and you get Tesla.
 
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Hydrogen champion Hyundai races to electric as Tesla takes off

Hyundai Motor Co (005380.KS), an early backer of hydrogen cars, has watched the electric rise of Tesla, including on its home turf. Now’s it’s going on the offensive in the battery-powered market led by its U.S. rival.

The South Korean company plans to introduce two production lines dedicated to electrics vehicles (EVs), one next year and another in 2024, according to an internal union newsletter seen by Reuters.

Euisun Chung, leader of the Hyundai Motor Group conglomerate that also includes Kia Motors, has also held a series of meetings since May with his counterparts at Samsung, LG and SK Group, which make batteries and electronic parts.

The purpose of the talks, which were publicly announced, was for Hyundai to try to secure batteries at a time of tight supply as the race for EVs intensifies, according to several industry sources. Those manufacturers also supply the likes of Tesla (TSLA.O), Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) and GM (GM.N).

Hyundai told Reuters it was collaborating with Korean battery suppliers “to scale up” its electric car production efficiently. It declined to comment on any plans to introduce dedicated production lines.

Samsung, LG and SK declined to comment.

The moves indicate the carmaker is moving aggressively to expand its electric capacity, days after Chung announced on July 14 that Hyundai Motor Group aimed to sell 1 million battery EVs a year and grab a global market share of over 10% by 2025.

There’s some way to go; Hyundai Motor Group sold 86,434 battery EVs last year, according to data from industry consultant LMC Automotive. That was above the 73,278 sold by Volkswagen Group but behind the 367,500 delivered by Tesla.

Hyundai, the world’s No.5 automaker together with Kia Motors (000270.KS), said its agility allowed it to lead the charge into EVs. “We are certain Hyundai is never going to fall behind,” it added.

NO KODAK MOMENT
A senior Hyundai insider, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue, said the company had not been concerned about Tesla when the Silicon Valley company was producing high-end cars.

But it became more worried when Tesla brought out a cheaper Model 3 in 2017, according to the insider who described it as a “strategic victory”.

No traditional automaker has been successful yet in catching up with Tesla, which retains an edge in battery and software technology.

Hyundai could also face a roadblock from its powerful union, which is worried about job security as EVs require fewer components and workers than gasoline vehicles; at Hyundai, this is partly because the automaker makes a number of key components for conventional cars in-house, while many EV parts are outsourced at present.

The union is pushing for the company to assemble key EV components, like battery packs and motors, in-house to offset any reduction in workforce.

“We are not opposed to EV business. Kodak went bankrupt because it stuck to film even as the industry was shifting to digital photography,” union spokesman Kwon Oh-kook told Reuters.

“We just want to protect the jobs of our members,” he said.

Hyundai said automakers and unions needed to accelerate change to remain viable in the long term.

HYDROGEN V ELECTRIC

Back in 2010, Hyundai Motor Co made 230 electric cars for the government, but they ended up being mothballed at a research center outside Seoul due to a lack of charging infrastructure, according to Lee Hyun-soon, R&D chief at the time.

In a 2014 book Lee, who developed South Korea’s first gasoline engines, said such electric vehicles were “not realistic”, also citing high battery costs, and that hydrogen cars - a rival clean technology - offered a “bright” future.

Along with Toyota (7203.T) and Nikola NKLA.O, Hyundai was one of a few automakers to have backed hydrogen cars. It launched the industry’s first mass-produced hydrogen car, Tucson Fuel Cell, in 2013 and the NEXO in 2018.

However the technology has not taken off; 7,707 hydrogen fuel cell cars were sold globally last year, compared with 1.68 million battery EVs, according to LMC Automotive.

In Hyundai’s home market, Tesla had its best month in June, with its Model 3 beating Hyundai’s Kona EV, as well as premium models from BMW and Audi.

“Hyundai did not expect Tesla to dominate the EV market so quickly,” another person familiar with the company’s thinking told Reuters.

Hyundai Motor Co has a market capitalization of about 25.3 trillion won ($21.2 billion) - less than a tenth of that of Tesla, now the world’s most valuable automaker.

While Hyundai promotes its hydrogen cars with K-pop boyband BTS, it only plans to introduce up to two hydrogen models by 2025, and 23 battery-powered models.

Peter Hasenkamp, vice president at electric startup Lucid, who previously worked at Tesla and Ford, said established carmakers faced historical “inertia” to make the EV transition.

“Part of the reason we’re based in Silicon Valley is to leverage both software and electrical engineering expertise,” Hasenkamp told Reuters.

“You’ve got a couple of generations for the big car companies to learn really how to do this well. It is a lot harder than they thought it was.”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-a...lectric-as-tesla-takes-off-idUKKCN24S2TG?il=0
 
Oil is back up again as the Saudis and Russia cut production. Obviously the Saudis cannot survive on $20/b oil, so they will cut production as much as necessary to keep the price at $30/b+. However that will spell their doom as electric cars replace the ICE.

Ford's market cap is $30b, GM is $44b, and Honda is $48b. That adds up to a grand total of $122b.

How much is Tesla's market cap? $176b!!! Almost equal to Toyota's $180b.

Add BMW to Ford, GM and Honda, and you get Tesla.

But market cap isn’t everything. If you look into the Tesla books, they have used interesting accounting methodologies which have helped boost their share price.

It’s a bit like post Mar20 equities rally. They are not backed by actual profits, but by governments putting in money. These things will come back to bite the market. Similarly, Tesla’s market cap will also reduce to a more reasonable level.

Tesla is a major Electric car manufacturer and will remain this way. However, it’s worth is not greater than the likes Honda etc. If you simply compare the numbers of cars sold, Tesla is not even in the same league.

In the long run, Tesla will end up being the niche market if luxury cars with alternative fuel, whereas other manufacturer will take over the space of normal electric or alternative fuel cars.
 
But market cap isn’t everything. If you look into the Tesla books, they have used interesting accounting methodologies which have helped boost their share price.

It’s a bit like post Mar20 equities rally. They are not backed by actual profits, but by governments putting in money. These things will come back to bite the market. Similarly, Tesla’s market cap will also reduce to a more reasonable level.

Tesla is a major Electric car manufacturer and will remain this way. However, it’s worth is not greater than the likes Honda etc. If you simply compare the numbers of cars sold, Tesla is not even in the same league.

In the long run, Tesla will end up being the niche market if luxury cars with alternative fuel, whereas other manufacturer will take over the space of normal electric or alternative fuel cars.

The biggest mistake is to think of Tesla as a car company and compare how many cars it sells to other car manufactures.

Its not.

Tesla is an energy company, software compare, chip manufacture, data company and then a car manufacture.

Havnt looked into its stock but when you realise its not a car company, then its valuation being higher than other established car companies make sense.

TBH, the data tesla holds itself is more valuable than the whole of Honda, GM and ford put together, because its that data that will enable autonomous driving, making it obvious that tesla will be first to robo-taxis, that will sky rocket the company, add in the fact that they will probably take over the power generating market too, turning houses into power plants, building a power/energy market place - where any home can sell there electricity to another by transporting it through a tesla, wont be long till they enter the HVAC market and take over it completely. Therefore Tesla is already a giant compared to other car companies despite selling less vehicles.
 
But market cap isn’t everything. If you look into the Tesla books, they have used interesting accounting methodologies which have helped boost their share price.

It’s a bit like post Mar20 equities rally. They are not backed by actual profits, but by governments putting in money. These things will come back to bite the market. Similarly, Tesla’s market cap will also reduce to a more reasonable level.

Tesla is a major Electric car manufacturer and will remain this way. However, it’s worth is not greater than the likes Honda etc. If you simply compare the numbers of cars sold, Tesla is not even in the same league.

In the long run, Tesla will end up being the niche market if luxury cars with alternative fuel, whereas other manufacturer will take over the space of normal electric or alternative fuel cars.

Tesla's vertical integration as someone already said puts it far ahead of any rival, also its about the car as well, its not a compromise if anything its truly a smart car, and with his ability to do vertical integration there is no saying that he might bring an affordable option in the Camry,Accord range in future.

Another aspect is FSD, Tesla is able to try multiple approaches due to talent and resources, if they succeed there it will be a huge catchup to play for others.

I do agree though the stock prices wise its too high, and also this:

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129020_tesla-sues-rivian-over-alleged-trade-secret-theft-related-to-sales-charging-network
 
But market cap isn’t everything. If you look into the Tesla books, they have used interesting accounting methodologies which have helped boost their share price.

It’s a bit like post Mar20 equities rally. They are not backed by actual profits, but by governments putting in money. These things will come back to bite the market. Similarly, Tesla’s market cap will also reduce to a more reasonable level.

Tesla is a major Electric car manufacturer and will remain this way. However, it’s worth is not greater than the likes Honda etc. If you simply compare the numbers of cars sold, Tesla is not even in the same league.

In the long run, Tesla will end up being the niche market if luxury cars with alternative fuel, whereas other manufacturer will take over the space of normal electric or alternative fuel cars.

You are referring to a post I made when Tesla's market cap was 40% lower than what it is today.

Valuing a firm by its present sales rather than projected future profits in a rapidly changing industry is an interesting idea. Honda's market cap is about 1/7th Tesla's ($44 B vs. $290 B). This is your chance to get very rich by shorting Tesla. Fair warning, many traders have lost their shirts shorting Tesla.
 
You are referring to a post I made when Tesla's I market cap was 40% lower than what it is today.

Valuing a firm by its present sales rather than projected future profits in a rapidly changing industry is an interesting idea. Honda's market cap is about 1/7th Tesla's ($44 B vs. $290 B). This is your chance to get very rich by shorting Tesla. Fair warning, many traders have lost their shirts shorting Tesla.

I actually have some long term put options on a Tesla. The fact of the matter that Elon Musk has used creative accounting in Tesla’s books. And these things come back to bite you in the back.

Tesla will remain a big car manufacturer, but it’s share price will normalise.
 
I actually have some long term put options on a Tesla. The fact of the matter that Elon Musk has used creative accounting in Tesla’s books. And these things come back to bite you in the back.

Tesla will remain a big car manufacturer, but it’s share price will normalise.

I hope you bought the puts less than a month ago.
 
You are referring to a post I made when Tesla's market cap was 40% lower than what it is today.

Valuing a firm by its present sales rather than projected future profits in a rapidly changing industry is an interesting idea. Honda's market cap is about 1/7th Tesla's ($44 B vs. $290 B). This is your chance to get very rich by shorting Tesla. Fair warning, many traders have lost their shirts shorting Tesla.

Tesla shorters are not investors, there gamblers usally kids trying to make over night riches.

Despite shooting up quickly, it might dip but it still has a long way up to go, due to the facts i mentioned above - they have so many innovations in the pipeline to launch soon, cant compare companies like honda, ford to it, when those companies are on the decline and Tesla is firing up in sales faster then ever. Fools dont understand this and take sales figure today and compare it.
 
Tesla has 10 years of EV expertise across multiple platforms, billion miles of data more than nearest competitor, unparalleled software solutions, unmatched access to capital thanks to the surge in stock price, and most importantly they have the brand name in EV.

The stock is purely speculative and clearly not based on any sort of fundamentals, but the product in light years ahead of what anyone else has to offer. No one getting close to Telsa for the foreseeable future
 
Tesla has 10 years of EV expertise across multiple platforms, billion miles of data more than nearest competitor, unparalleled software solutions, unmatched access to capital thanks to the surge in stock price, and most importantly they have the brand name in EV.

The stock is purely speculative and clearly not based on any sort of fundamentals, but the product in light years ahead of what anyone else has to offer. No one getting close to Telsa for the foreseeable future

This wreaks of such uninformed fan boy ism it isn't even funny.


Tesla isn't even the most sold EV in the market let alone "no one getting close" :ashwin

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/best-selling-electric-cars-world-nissan-leaf-tesla-model-s/65617/


Tesla Model 3 had an amazing 2019, might surpass the Leaf in 2020 but perhaps you weren't even aware of the existence of the Leaf :kakmal
 
Tesla Model 3 had an amazing 2019, might surpass the Leaf in 2020 but perhaps you weren't even aware of the existence of the Leaf :kakmal

Who cares? Leaf is a toy car. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same line as Tesla.
 
Leaf is for those who dream of tesla but cant afford it.

Its only selling because of tesla hyping the EV market, nissan cashing in on tesla fame

When tesla launches its compact and cheaper car, once the german giga factory is up, then compare how much it sells against leaf :))), if leaf still exists by then, that is.
 
Tesla will be bankrupt in a year. I live 10 minutes away from its factory in Fremont (Silicon Valley) and you can't pay a blue collar wage to workers in the most expensive metropolitan area in US and expect to retain them.

Tesla doesn't have anything proprietary nor innovative that will give it a competitive advantage and it hasn't figured out the basic automobile manufacturing economics. It still hasn't established manufacturing efficiencies, something established big automakers have perfected over a century of trial and error. It margins on its top of the line models are similar to margins big autos make on their cheaper models, which is a losing proposition. Lastly, battery powered cars are not the future, much like gas powered vehicles its dependent on a finite nonrenewable material i.e. lithium and there is no breakthrough in battery technology on the horizon.

If I was a investor in Tesla, I'd get out.

what a dumb post this turned out to be:)
 
This wreaks of such uninformed fan boy ism it isn't even funny.


Tesla isn't even the most sold EV in the market let alone "no one getting close" :ashwin

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/best-selling-electric-cars-world-nissan-leaf-tesla-model-s/65617/


Tesla Model 3 had an amazing 2019, might surpass the Leaf in 2020 but perhaps you weren't even aware of the existence of the Leaf :kakmal

Huh? I didn't say Tesla was the most sold EV? Not sure what you're on about.

I said they have the most data / most driver mileage at well over a billion. Lot of data for autopilot, self driving...

Leaf may be an EV, but laughable that you compare it to a Tesla. You ever been in a Tesla?
 
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Huh? I didn't say Tesla was the most sold EV? Not sure what you're on about.

I said they have the most data / most driver mileage at well over a billion. Lot of data for autopilot, self driving...

Leaf may be an EV, but laughable that you compare it to a Tesla. You ever been in a Tesla?

Pros and cons when I drove a Tesla. Incredible acceleration, which is something I really like. No ICE car on the road could compete with it. However, it felt a bit light, and actually fishtailed slightly when I floored the accelerator entering the highway. Lacked the stability of a Mercedes, then again most drivers do not drive as aggressively as I do.

Besides the acceleration and handling, the digital stuff was very nice.
 
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Tesla shorters are not investors, there gamblers usally kids trying to make over night riches.

Despite shooting up quickly, it might dip but it still has a long way up to go, due to the facts i mentioned above - they have so many innovations in the pipeline to launch soon, cant compare companies like honda, ford to it, when those companies are on the decline and Tesla is firing up in sales faster then ever. Fools dont understand this and take sales figure today and compare it.

Some of those who are shorting have a point.

Tesla has decent prospects. But the issue here is creative accounting is what troubles me about this. In the long run, I recon the stock is fine. Its value will normalise and it will be one of those stocks which will move from a growth stock to a dividend paying stock. But its the medium run that Tesla is concerning.

A bad quarter or two, or some legal issues could bring its accounting problems to the fore and thats when they will face issues.
 
Who cares? Leaf is a toy car. Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same line as Tesla.

They both are in the same class (Leaf and Model 3). The Leaf provides more bang for the buck. Getting a base model Model 3 gets you just a basic EV and none of the frills that Tesla advertises. You have to dole out quite a bit more money to get some of the "advanced" features, and what's up with the center console LOL
 
Ridiculous thread. Tesla is already a established brand and with the launch of its model 3 its well on its way to gaining a foothold in the mid tier market. Electric vehicles from well established brands already exist in the market so I don't see how you have come up with this conclusion.

Why is it a ridiculous thread ?
 
Some of those who are shorting have a point.

Tesla has decent prospects. But the issue here is creative accounting is what troubles me about this. In the long run, I recon the stock is fine. Its value will normalise and it will be one of those stocks which will move from a growth stock to a dividend paying stock. But its the medium run that Tesla is concerning.

A bad quarter or two, or some legal issues could bring its accounting problems to the fore and thats when they will face issues.

People shorting Tesla definitely have a point, there's a real chance that the company can go bankrupt at some point. Their profits are razor thin (and like you said, even those are based on creative accounting), and they have have a ton of debt at high interest rates.

That said, I am talking about the product and not the company. The product is iconic and visionary on the level of the iPhone. The Model S is arguably the most beautiful sedan every built (this is subjective, but most people including rival execs tend to say this). The driving experience with the self driving, the internal displays/instrument panel, falcon wing doors, acceleration/propulsion, frunk, wireless updates, are also unmatched in the auto industry at those price points.

I would never invest in the stock at current valuation; Tesla sells 300,000 - 400,000 cars a year, Toyota does something like 9 million. But I wouldn't short Tesla either, because generally don't like to bet against great products.
 
They both are in the same class (Leaf and Model 3). The Leaf provides more bang for the buck. Getting a base model Model 3 gets you just a basic EV and none of the frills that Tesla advertises. You have to dole out quite a bit more money to get some of the "advanced" features, and what's up with the center console LOL

Nissan Leaf sold over 12000 units in USA in 2019 and tesla model 3 sold over 300,000 units..end of discussion .
 
They both are in the same class (Leaf and Model 3). The Leaf provides more bang for the buck. Getting a base model Model 3 gets you just a basic EV and none of the frills that Tesla advertises. You have to dole out quite a bit more money to get some of the "advanced" features, and what's up with the center console LOL

:))) :))) :)))

What are you smoking
 
Just came across this thread for the first time and it was hilarious reading through it. The short sightedness of some people is ridiculous..

I remember I saw a Tesla car briefly last year and was blown away by the technology. I had heard about the company but did some more research into them and it was obvious that they were / are a revolutionary company - in the mould of Apple / Netflix etc.

EVs in everyone’s mind were these futuristic but stupid looking ridiculous boring cars that rich people had as a 5th car, with a small range that they could show off with in conversations.

Tesla changed the whole market. Their cars are damn sexy for a start. Most people who have been in or around one immediately want one. Their technology is far ahead of the competition. The safety features on the car are pioneering. They introduced the concept of software over the air updates which are brilliant. Their autonomous driving capabilities are so far ahead of the competition it’s a joke.

And that’s not even to mention the solar and battery technology the company produces.

I was very new to investing at the time and especially not to single companies but jumped at the chance and bought some shares with whatever money I could. Needless to say that was a good decision.

I do think that the price has risen a bit quickly and they are overvalued based on CURRENT fundamentals. However it’s because people have woken up to the potential of Tesla and what kind of company they are.

As a final point - I genuinely LOL’D at the stupid toy car in the opening post and how it would kill Tesla. That video is such a silly biased review which had completely nonsense points. Is that genuine Top Gear?
 
Tesla is diverse beyond their car exploits but if the valuation today is purely based on the possibility of substanstial growth in the future opposed to fundamentals then surely even their biggest fans at this point will accept they are overvalued, however in the end it comes down to how you personally value the company when it comes to investment
 
People shorting Tesla definitely have a point, there's a real chance that the company can go bankrupt at some point. Their profits are razor thin (and like you said, even those are based on creative accounting), and they have have a ton of debt at high interest rates.

That said, I am talking about the product and not the company. The product is iconic and visionary on the level of the iPhone. The Model S is arguably the most beautiful sedan every built (this is subjective, but most people including rival execs tend to say this). The driving experience with the self driving, the internal displays/instrument panel, falcon wing doors, acceleration/propulsion, frunk, wireless updates, are also unmatched in the auto industry at those price points.

I would never invest in the stock at current valuation; Tesla sells 300,000 - 400,000 cars a year, Toyota does something like 9 million. But I wouldn't short Tesla either, because generally don't like to bet against great products.

Tesla is not even close to going bankrupt. In terms of their profits being razor thin etc - do you know the likes of Uber don’t really make profit?

Tesla is growing rapidly, building multiple factories which are producing hundreds of thousands of cars now which are being sold before they’re being made. Not to mention their margins are great because their cars are so premium. And they’re even cutting the price of cars to increase sales without having to eat into their margins because their costs are decreasing.

And then there’s the single most valuable asset that they have - the brand. Like you said it’s a revolutionary company which is not going anywhere unless something drastic happens.
 
Tesla is diverse beyond their car exploits but if the valuation today is purely based on the possibility of substanstial growth in the future opposed to fundamentals then surely even their biggest fans at this point will accept they are overvalued, however in the end it comes down to how you personally value the company when it comes to investment

It’s totally overvalued but that doesn’t mean anything to the average person. Unless you’re planning on buying shares and managing portfolios, how overvalued they are doesn’t make a difference.
 
I am in on Tesla mostly fractions as a growth stock but not looking to but put in big amounts frequently, I did ride the wave earlier but mostly to cut my losses
 
It’s totally overvalued but that doesn’t mean anything to the average person. Unless you’re planning on buying shares and managing portfolios, how overvalued they are doesn’t make a difference.

Am pretty sure many things generally speaking don't make a difference in that regard when it comes to discussions in threads, however going back to the point made earlier regarding market cap in the thread it is worth mentioning they are over valued fundamentally
 
But market cap isn’t everything. If you look into the Tesla books, they have used interesting accounting methodologies which have helped boost their share price.

It’s a bit like post Mar20 equities rally. They are not backed by actual profits, but by governments putting in money. These things will come back to bite the market. Similarly, Tesla’s market cap will also reduce to a more reasonable level.

Tesla is a major Electric car manufacturer and will remain this way. However, it’s worth is not greater than the likes Honda etc. If you simply compare the numbers of cars sold, Tesla is not even in the same league.

In the long run, Tesla will end up being the niche market if luxury cars with alternative fuel, whereas other manufacturer will take over the space of normal electric or alternative fuel cars.

Tesla as the niche market of luxury cars with alternative fuels? How wrong this prediction appears to be.

Tesla is basically creating the market for electric vehicles and it’s eating its way into the powerhouse industry that is Petrol/diesel cars. The huge manufactures have been pumping millions into an EV model for years if not decades but are struggling to scramble to catch up to Tesla and they’re not even close.

Tesla is so confident of dominating the EV market - they’re now past that into the future. Their focus is on autonomous cars and they have the technology to almost get there. Soon the regulation will catch up and by then - they will have millions and millions of miles of data from their drivers which they’re silently using to improve their autonomous functionality even more.
 
Tesla will be bankrupt in a year. I live 10 minutes away from its factory in Fremont (Silicon Valley) and you can't pay a blue collar wage to workers in the most expensive metropolitan area in US and expect to retain them.

Tesla doesn't have anything proprietary nor innovative that will give it a competitive advantage and it hasn't figured out the basic automobile manufacturing economics. It still hasn't established manufacturing efficiencies, something established big automakers have perfected over a century of trial and error. It margins on its top of the line models are similar to margins big autos make on their cheaper models, which is a losing proposition. Lastly, battery powered cars are not the future, much like gas powered vehicles its dependent on a finite nonrenewable material i.e. lithium and there is no breakthrough in battery technology on the horizon.

If I was a investor in Tesla, I'd get out.

I know hindsight is easy, but is there a way to vote for the worst prediction on PakPassion. This would certainly win the award.
 
to add to what i said previously, not only is it so wrong to compare how many cars tesla sells compared to big ICE manufacters, considering, its so much more than a car company, but also profit margins play a big part with ice manufacters earning a measle 0.5% margins while tesla is up at 10%
 
Tesla is not even close to going bankrupt. In terms of their profits being razor thin etc - do you know the likes of Uber don’t really make profit?

Tesla is growing rapidly, building multiple factories which are producing hundreds of thousands of cars now which are being sold before they’re being made. Not to mention their margins are great because their cars are so premium. And they’re even cutting the price of cars to increase sales without having to eat into their margins because their costs are decreasing.

And then there’s the single most valuable asset that they have - the brand. Like you said it’s a revolutionary company which is not going anywhere unless something drastic happens.

I never said they are on the verge of going bankrupt - I said 'they have a chance of going bankrupt at some point' - which is true just based on the unit economics of each car produced. Their profits in the last quarter came from selling energy credits to other companies, not from their core business of selling cars - that didn't generate any profits.

And comparison to Uber is ludicrous (pun intended). You realize the massive difference in fixed cost for Uber and Tesla? Tesla is running major factories around the world, running complex supply chain with 1000's of suppliers, sourcing raw materials from around the world, etc. Manufacturing is a very very capital intensive business (look at how much the iconic Boeing is struggling).
Uber is a web service, the drivers aren't even their employees, thats one of the reasons they were able to cut costs so quickly during the pandemic. Tesla can never ever do that, they still have to pay to run the factories and all those robots.

But again, I'm not at all saying that 'Tesla is on the verge of bankruptcy' - those are your words. Especially in the current economic climate when the US Fed is buying up corporate bonds, we're very very far from any major company going bankrupt.

My point: I'm a huge fan of the Tesla product and the brand - I think the Model S is arguably the 2nd most innovative and disruptive product of the last 20 years, after the iPhone. But the company has a ways to go to becoming financially sound - that is exactly why they are most short'ed company in history.
 
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I know hindsight is easy, but is there a way to vote for the worst prediction on PakPassion. This would certainly win the award.

lol i love the confidence in his first post tho.

i was and am a tesla skeptic and still think it needs work to be an economic option for the masses but it is not going anywhere. in fact i think theyre competing in entirely different league right now.
 
lol i love the confidence in his first post tho.

i was and am a tesla skeptic and still think it needs work to be an economic option for the masses but it is not going anywhere. in fact i think theyre competing in entirely different league right now.

Haha true but quiet a few of Musk's female fans in particular show even more confidence then that when you look at the bhangra they do 5 times a day, the stock market has beocme a popularity contest in these unprecedented times. But having such a following can help them moving forward bit like with the Apple followers.

Having said that I agree with you, they are here to stay for sure and will grow as a company, however on fundamentals alone you can argue potentially that they are in a price bubble, given the volatility it's also risky to short them.
 
Norway has probably the highest share of El-vehicles in whole World so let's see how this car is welcomed.

At the moment the most purchased one here is Nissan Leaf followed by VW E-golf, BMW i3 and Tesla of course.

Norwegians, when they get used to one type of car, it's very difficult to change that.

Norway who? :))
 

You can look at "usage" or you can look at dollar sales. Obviously, a firm cares more about dollar sales than what percentage of new cars sold in a tiny market is electric.

Nissan which according to you is the leader in EV sales in Norway has a market cap of $13.56 billion which is a rounding error compared to Tesla's $266 billion market cap, enough said!

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NSANY?p=NSANY&.tsrc=fin-srch
 
You can look at "usage" or you can look at dollar sales. Obviously, a firm cares more about dollar sales than what percentage of new cars sold in a tiny market is electric.

Nissan which according to you is the leader in EV sales in Norway has a market cap of $13.56 billion which is a rounding error compared to Tesla's $266 billion market cap, enough said!

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/NSANY?p=NSANY&.tsrc=fin-srch

You typed "Norway who?" and I just tried to enlighten you.

Re Tesla and Noway:

https://www.norwegianamerican.com/norway-teslas-biggest-market/

Remember, since my post was from 2019 I will give you reports from previous years. Hopefully you can get rid of your ignorance and can learn more about Norway.
 
You typed "Norway who?" and I just tried to enlighten you.

Re Tesla and Noway:

https://www.norwegianamerican.com/norway-teslas-biggest-market/

Remember, since my post was from 2019 I will give you reports from previous years. Hopefully you can get rid of your ignorance and can learn more about Norway.

The link says "Norway is Tesla’s top per capita market". You really are not getting my point.

The Norwegian market in dollar terms is tiny and insignificant. Your post said "Norwegians, when they get used to one type of car, it's very difficult to change that". This seemed to imply that if Tesla failed in Norway, it was doomed. Hence my "Norway who?" comment.

You may think otherwise, but success in Norway bears no relation to success in the rest of the world. The link you provided also says "A Tesla Model X is the country’s fourth best-selling car." Many Scandinavians tend to believe they are the world's thought leaders, you seem to have fallen victim to the same error.
 
The Norwegian market in dollar terms is tiny and insignificant. Your post said “Norwegians, when they get used to one type of car, it’s very difficult to change that”. This seemed to imply that if Tesla failed in Norway, it was doomed. Hence my “Norway who?” comment.

I think it was just a personal observation from a Norwegian POV because [MENTION=18398]IAJ[/MENTION] is in Norway rather than being a grand proclamation of Tesla being in danger if it failed in Norway.
 
I think it was just a personal observation from a Norwegian POV because [MENTION=18398]IAJ[/MENTION] is in Norway rather than being a grand proclamation of Tesla being in danger if it failed in Norway.

Fair enough, I got a different impression as this thread was about Tesla EVs losing out to competitors like Honda.
 
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