How China’s Repressive Policies Could Fuel the Jihad

Sirris

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How China’s Repressive Policies Could Fuel the Jihad

The CCP’s harsh treatment of Uighurs in Xinjiang could very well drive more people into the arms of both al-Qaeda and ISIS.

Earlier this week, the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) released its annual report on the status of believers from various faiths around the world. As in past reports, USCIRF devotes significant attention to the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) campaign of religious oppression. The report summarizes the CCP’s authoritarian crackdown on Tibetan Buddhists, Protestant Christians, Muslims, Falun Gong practitioners, and the adherents of other religions deemed to be out-of-step with the communists’ conception of national unity.

Among the CCP’s horrors is its campaign of forced assimilation and repression in the northwestern Xinjiang region, where it is estimated that “between 900,000 and 1.8 million Uighur, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, and other Muslims have been detained in more than 1,300 concentration camps.” These camps were originally conceived as Maoist-style re-education facilities, but they have “increasingly transitioned … to forced labor as detainees were forced to work in cotton and textile factories.” The camps’ former “detainees report that they suffered torture, rape, sterilization, and other abuses,” USCIRF notes. Minders are also stationed at mosques and within Muslim families, snooping around for any hint of “religious extremism,” which really includes virtually any form of religious expression. And “nearly half a million Muslim children have been separated from their families and placed in boarding schools.”

The CCP has built a dystopian surveillance state, using state-of-the-art artificial intelligence and facial recognition technology to identify and keep tabs on ethnic Uighurs and others as they go about their daily lives. As the USCIRF has documented, this widespread digital snooping isn’t limited to Xinjiang and Tibet—the locales where it was first perfected—but is spread throughout the country. The CCP’s goal is to have total coverage of “key public areas” and “key industries” by this year.

China’s surveillance architecture began with something the CCP called “Skynet,” an interconnected system of cameras that was installed around 2005 for the stated purpose of tracking down criminals. While this isn’t the “Skynet” of Terminator fame—that artificial intelligence system launched a nuclear war against humanity—the CCP’s version is nefarious. Whole populations of Chinese citizens are now monitored by the system to force behavioral compliance.

Which brings me to a point that is addressed only obliquely in the report. USCIRF points to a previous warning by U.N. experts. They stated that “disproportionate emphasis placed by the authorities on the repression of rights of minorities risks worsening any security risk” in Xinjiang. USCIRF doesn’t elaborate on what that “security risk” is, but it certainly includes terrorism.

The CCP’s forced assimilation and repression in Xinjiang are likely driving jihadist recruitment. Al-Qaeda has sponsored a predominately Uighur jihadist group known as the Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP) for the past 20-plus years. The TIP’s initial cadres came, in part, from disaffected Uighurs who fled to Afghanistan. And there is a very real risk that the CCP’s Orwellian oppression of the Uighurs, which goes far beyond any legitimate counterterrorism policy, is driving more young men and women into the jihadists’ arms.

Consider this brief history.

THE TIP HAS SERVED AS AL-QAEDA’S UIGHUR GROUP SINCE THE 1990S.

In the 1990s, a small group of Uighur men made their way to Afghanistan, where they were trained in joint al-Qaeda-Taliban camps and then fought on behalf of the Taliban’s Islamic Emirate against the Northern Alliance and other foes. They were initially known as the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM), a name that reflected their desire to establish an independent nation in Xinjiang and the surrounding area—a region they still refer to as Turkistan. The ETIM’s founder was a jihadist from Xinjiang known as Hasan Mahsum, who fled to northern Pakistan after the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001. Mahsum was killed by Pakistani forces in 2003. But his right-hand man, another Uighur known as Abdul Haq al-Turkistani, carried on with his mission. Abdul Haq has led the ETIM—now more commonly known as the Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP)—since then.

I’ve been researching and reporting on the TIP for more than a decade. The organization is clearly a part of al-Qaeda’s network—there is no real question about this fact. Al-Qaeda doesn’t hide its sponsorship of the TIP. And the TIP doesn’t hide its allegiance to al-Qaeda. But the CCP’s detestable policies in Xinjiang have led some democracy and human rights activists to downplay or dismiss the TIP’s overt jihadism. Some observers developed an especially bizarre view, holding that the TIP was really a fictional organization created by the CCP to discredit the entire Uighur opposition. There is no evidence that is true.

I witnessed this curious line of argument firsthand during a congressional hearing in 2009, when I was invited by the House Judiciary Committee to testify concerning the detainees held at Guantanamo Bay. Twenty-two Uighurs were held at Guantanamo over time. All of them were eventually transferred to third countries. Their detention became a source of minor controversy. Two congressmen then on the committee—Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (a Republican from California) and Rep. Bill Delahunt (a Democrat from Massachusetts), both of whom have since retired—spent much of the hearing berating me for pointing to the ETIM/TIP’s relationship with al-Qaeda. It was the first time I testified before Congress and, believe me, it was very uncomfortable. My wife—then my fiancé—was in attendance. She didn’t think I’d ever testify again. My brother watched the hearing online and came to the same conclusion. I’m proud to say that I’ve testified before the House and the Senate on a range of issues 19 times since then.

Even if they are motivated by justifiable concerns regarding the CCP’s human rights abuses, the TIP denialists were wrong then and they are wrong now. The group is still part of al-Qaeda to this day. Its men are waging jihad in Afghanistan on behalf of the Taliban right now.

For starters, some of the 22 Uighur detainees once held at Guantanamo testified before their tribunal hearings that they attended a training camp in Afghanistan that was run by Hasan Mahsum and Abdul Haq al-Turkistani. While most (but not all) of the 22 were low-level fighters who denied any real knowledge of al-Qaeda, that was a significant admission. The camp was found in the foothills of the Tora Bora Mountains—Osama bin Laden’s infamous stronghold. Intelligence analysts working for Joint Task Force—Guantanamo (JTF-GTMO) concluded that some of these same Uighur recruits even acted as a “blocking force” for bin Laden when his mountainous redoubt came under siege in late 2001. That could have been bin Laden’s last stand. Of course, it wasn’t—the al-Qaeda founder slithered away. The U.S. didn’t catch up with him for nearly 10 more years.

The TIP is proud of Hasan Mahsum’s close relationship with bin Laden and his successor, Ayman al-Zawahiri. In 2015, for instance, the group released an image of Mahsum consorting with the two al-Qaeda leaders sometime prior to the 9/11 hijackings. Al-Qaeda continues to honor Mahsum as well. In 2016, for example, Zawahiri praised Mahsum for pledging allegiance to the Taliban’s founder, Mullah Omar, and for dedicating his life to the Taliban’s Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

In 2009, the U.S. Treasury Department designated Abdul Haq as a terrorist, noting that he had been a member of al-Qaeda’s elite shura (or advisory) council since 2005. Treasury described Abdul Haq’s TIP as a part of al-Qaeda’s “support network.”

In fact, Abdul Haq worked directly for bin Laden.

When the Navy SEALs killed bin Laden in early May 2011, they also scooped up a treasure trove of files. The cache includes account ledgers showing some of the groups and individuals who were on bin Laden’s payroll. One such figure: Abdul Haq al-Turkistani. See the second page of this translation of a monthly ledger, which lists “Shaykh ‘Abd-al-Haqq ((Turkistani))” as a regular recipient of bin Laden’s funds. That’s the same wanted terrorist who has led the TIP since 2003 and sat on al-Qaeda’s shura council.

THE TIP IS STILL FIGHTING TO RESURRECT THE TALIBAN’S ISLAMIC EMIRATE.

Today, Abdul Haq’s men continue to wage jihad in Afghanistan on behalf of the Taliban. Along with other al-Qaeda-affiliated parties, they are fighting to restore the Taliban’s Islamic Emirate to power. In early February 2018, the U.S. and NATO announced that a series of airstrikes were carried out against Taliban training camps in the northeastern Afghan province of Badakhshan, explaining that TIP fighters received instruction at the same facilities. Separately, a team of analysts working for the U.N. has reported that several hundred TIP fighters are located in Badakhshan.

Abdul Haq himself continues to signal his allegiance to both Ayman al-Zawahiri and the Taliban’s top leader, Haibatullah Akhundzada. In early 2019, he called on both Zawahiri and Akhundzada to do more to highlight the jihadists’ cause and Muslim suffering in his native Xinjiang. Al-Qaeda responded by declaring its undying “solidarity” with the TIP and the Muslims of Xinjiang.

On February 29, the U.S. State Department and the Taliban signed a withdrawal agreement, in which America pledged to leave Afghanistan within 14 months in exchange for the Taliban’s supposed counterterrorism assurances. There are many problems with the deal, which wasn’t necessary to withdraw American forces. One of the problems: There is no explicit mention of the TIP. The Taliban isn’t specifically required to do anything about the Uighur jihadists fighting alongside its men.

The TIP technically could be covered by some of the accord’s counterterrorism provisions, but the text of the document is conspicuously vague, providing no verification or enforcement mechanisms. While the TIP is primarily invested in the Taliban-led insurgency, it does pose some degree of international threat. According to the U.N. Security Council and U.S. Treasury Department, TIP members were implicated in a possible plot against the U.S. Embassy in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan as early as 2002. We shouldn’t overstate the matter. As far as we can tell, the TIP doesn’t currently pose a major threat to U.S. interests. But it is part of al-Qaeda’s network and, therefore, should have been explicitly accounted for in the State Department’s agreement with the Taliban. It is always possible that TIP members will be repurposed for operations abroad in the future.

Tellingly, the Taliban continues to lie about the presence of TIP fighters, claiming they aren’t really in Afghanistan. There is no evidence showing that the Taliban is willing to break with its long-time allies from Xinjiang. None.

THE JIHADIST THREAT DOESN’T JUSTIFY THE CCP’S WIDESPREAD OPPRESSION.

One argument I’ve seen made in counterterrorism circles is that the TIP is really just a “nationalist” group focused on resisting the CCP’s oppression. That is obviously false. There is nothing “nationalist” about its participation in the jihad in Afghanistan. The TIP also maintains a sizable contingent in Syria, where its men fight alongside other al-Qaeda-affiliated parties and foreign fighters against Bashar al-Assad’s regime. That conflict is obviously far afield from Xinjiang, but the TIP has made it a priority. The group has even dispatched veteran leaders from Afghanistan to Syria to lead its forces in battle.

It is difficult to gauge just how much of a threat the TIP poses to the Chinese government, but its network inside Xinjiang is a legitimate security concern. Various reports point to a string of TIP attacks and plots inside China over the years. Abdul Haq openly threatened the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, reportedly ordering his men to plan a series of attacks, which were thwarted. Despite these terrorist threats, the TIP has failed, thus far, to launch a full-scale insurgency inside Xinjiang. While the CCP will claim this a triumph for its security efforts, it is also an indication that the TIP lacks widespread popular support.

Indeed, there is no good reason to think the vast majority of Muslims in Xinjiang have anything to do with al-Qaeda or jihadism. As I mentioned, I’ve been tracking the TIP for more than a decade. While this al-Qaeda-affiliated organization has grown over that time, it’s still small when compared to the overall population of Xinjiang. Most of its claimed operations are abroad—not within China itself. And we shouldn’t conflate the TIP with other, more legitimate Uighur causes.

Still, the CCP’s actions could very well drive more Uighurs into the arms of both al-Qaeda and ISIS. The TIP regularly releases videos decrying the CCP’s campaign in Xinjiang. ISIS—which has its own contingent of Uighur jihadists—has increasingly highlighted the CCP’s actions in its weekly Al-Naba newsletter. These propaganda efforts are intended to portray jihadist organizations as legitimate outlets for Uighur anger.

Therefore, the CCP’s assimilation campaign is not only morally abhorrent, it could very well lead to the rise of a new generation of jihadists from Xinjiang.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2020/04/29/how-chinas-repressive-policies-could-fuel-the-jihad/
 
Stopped reading after "USCIRF".

Sepratists from Xinjiang have been attacking the Chinese state since the 1930's.

Better for them to accept Chinese rule, as China unlike India and Israel isnt in conflict with them due to their religion but their dreams of a seperate state, just as Tibet and Dalia Lama.
 
Stopped reading after "USCIRF".

Sepratists from Xinjiang have been attacking the Chinese state since the 1930's.

Better for them to accept Chinese rule, as China unlike India and Israel isnt in conflict with them due to their religion but their dreams of a seperate state, just as Tibet and Dalia Lama.

CCP is 1000 times worse for Muslims than India will ever be
 
CCP is 1000 times worse for Muslims than India will ever be

Hindu extremists hate Muslims, this is their ideololy, they live to breath by hating Muslims and now are the government of India.

Communist China has no issue with Muslims, in fact they are living better than any other religious group in China. China hates those who go against the state, Muslims, Christians or Bhuddists doest matter.
 
Stopped reading after "USCIRF".

Sepratists from Xinjiang have been attacking the Chinese state since the 1930's.

Better for them to accept Chinese rule, as China unlike India and Israel isnt in conflict with them due to their religion but their dreams of a seperate state, just as Tibet and Dalia Lama.

When USCIRF mentions crimes against minorities in India we are supposed to take it seriously but in case with China we shouldn't?

Perhaps you should read the whole article to be able to make a more informed opinion. The article is well-balanced and isn't prophesying the downfall of China.
 
Hindu extremists hate Muslims, this is their ideololy, they live to breath by hating Muslims and now are the government of India.

Communist China has no issue with Muslims, in fact they are living better than any other religious group in China. China hates those who go against the state, Muslims, Christians or Bhuddists doest matter.

Ill-informed opinion.

Muslim in Turkestan are being hindered in practicing their religion. It is explained in detail in the article.

Yes China is anti-separatism however due to its communist nature it is also strongly anti-religion. You always try to highlight the anti-separatism part while downplaying the anti-religion part when both go hand in hand.

From an Islamic point of view it doesn't matter if the tyrant is only oppressing Muslims specifically or also other religious communities. A tyrant is a tyrant and the one oppressed deserve the support.

If international community remains silent the jihadists will use this opportunity to gain more followers. Everything is explained quite well in the article.
 
When USCIRF mentions crimes against minorities in India we are supposed to take it seriously but in case with China we shouldn't?

Perhaps you should read the whole article to be able to make a more informed opinion. The article is well-balanced and isn't prophesying the downfall of China.

I dont need to, I know the subject well. Perhaps you should merge it with the related thread, all my posts are there.

Ill-informed opinion.

Muslim in Turkestan are being hindered in practicing their religion. It is explained in detail in the article.

Yes China is anti-separatism however due to its communist nature it is also strongly anti-religion. You always try to highlight the anti-separatism part while downplaying the anti-religion part when both go hand in hand.

From an Islamic point of view it doesn't matter if the tyrant is only oppressing Muslims specifically or also other religious communities. A tyrant is a tyrant and the one oppressed deserve the support.

If international community remains silent the jihadists will use this opportunity to gain more followers. Everything is explained quite well in the article.

I never said their religion wasnt being hindered. EVERYONE'S religion is hindered in China, this is the nature of the ruling party. If you are a sepratist they will hinder you in every way, China takes this as treason and very seriously and dont care what they have to do.

From an Islamic pov you should not fight against the state if the state is allowing you to practice your faith, ie the 5 pillars which is no issue for any Muslim in China.

Again this started in the 1930's, these people have had decades to stop their attacks against the state but haven't.

Anyone who thinks they are being targetted because they are Muslims are clueless like Trump with the virus.
 
China is anti-religion period, how some people twist and manipulate facts is beyond me, china is a worse oppressor then india or israel could ever be.
 
I’m all for China taking over the world if they can make all countries atheist like them and do a cultural revolution around the world and be the necessary evil.

The only issue then would be to deal with Han domination.
 
Please give a detailed reply.

Why?

The details are all over the thread, india and israel can only dream of doing to muslims what china is,

modi could never put muslims in concentration camps, china is doing what hitler did, what people thought was unthinkable in the modern era.

China simply wants to wipe out religion and with a totalitarian state with no media, nothing can stop them.
 
The details are all over the thread, india and israel can only dream of doing to muslims what china is,

modi could never put muslims in concentration camps, china is doing what hitler did, what people thought was unthinkable in the modern era.

China simply wants to wipe out religion and with a totalitarian state with no media, nothing can stop them.

Such a poor reply, was expecting something new.

India has been holding 8 million people in an open prison for months now, they dont need to build concetration camps because they have an open air one. Indian soldiers have been raping schoolgirls, murdering schoolboys, teenagers and the elderly. Indians detain people daily and brutaly torture them.

You forgot about Israel? Lets hear it, will be a gem.

China doesn't want to wipe out religion lol. It will allow you do worship freely as long as you dont incite anything against the state. China had Muslim Generals hundreds of years ago and now the Hui Muslims are living a better life than Indian Muslims or Muslims occupied by Israel.

lol@nothing can stop them.
 
I’m all for China taking over the world if they can make all countries atheist like them and do a cultural revolution around the world and be the necessary evil.

The only issue then would be to deal with Han domination.

With this line of thinking what difference is left between wanting to spread Atheism by force and wanting to spread a religious ideology by force?

Just like how an atheist might be convinced that his view on life is the greater good which justifies any use of force, likewise a religious zealot may harbor the same or even greater conviction.

Strong conviction, good intentions or superior ideology none of it justifies the use of force to spread it.

In this regard I prefer Western dominance over China. At least in the west the philosophy of individual freedom exists.
 
With this line of thinking what difference is left between wanting to spread Atheism by force and wanting to spread a religious ideology by force?

Just like how an atheist might be convinced that his view on life is the greater good which justifies any use of force, likewise a religious zealot may harbor the same or even greater conviction.

Strong conviction, good intentions or superior ideology none of it justifies the use of force to spread it.

In this regard I prefer Western dominance over China. At least in the west the philosophy of individual freedom exists.

I agree with you, and am sure if it ever came to Communism dictatorship in my country I would hate it but currently I hate BJP and appeasement of any religion.
I know the flaw in my thought process.
 
Such a poor reply, was expecting something new.

India has been holding 8 million people in an open prison for months now, they dont need to build concetration camps because they have an open air one. Indian soldiers have been raping schoolgirls, murdering schoolboys, teenagers and the elderly. Indians detain people daily and brutaly torture them.

You forgot about Israel? Lets hear it, will be a gem.

China doesn't want to wipe out religion lol. It will allow you do worship freely as long as you dont incite anything against the state. China had Muslim Generals hundreds of years ago and now the Hui Muslims are living a better life than Indian Muslims or Muslims occupied by Israel.

lol@nothing can stop them.

Your full of delusions, come out of your bubble.

so holding 8 million people in a large open area infront of the world media for you is worse then china cramping people into a poultry style shed and murdering them with no media presence.

China allowing people to worship freely :))), now ive heard it all, where on earth do you get your information from? i will like to hear it.

Do you know what they have even done with people of there own religon?

Keep entertaining us with your delusions.
 
Your full of delusions, come out of your bubble.

so holding 8 million people in a large open area infront of the world media for you is worse then china cramping people into a poultry style shed and murdering them with no media presence.

China allowing people to worship freely :))), now ive heard it all, where on earth do you get your information from? i will like to hear it.

Do you know what they have even done with people of there own religon?

Keep entertaining us with your delusions.

lol. You've shown no evidence, just poor arguments.

Yes it is worse because of the crimes I pointed. Any reports from of China raping schoolgirls?

There are 39,000 mosques in China, vast majority of Muslims are free to worship. Or are these concentration camps in disguise? lol
 
lol. You've shown no evidence, just poor arguments.

Yes it is worse because of the crimes I pointed. Any reports from of China raping schoolgirls?

There are 39,000 mosques in China, vast majority of Muslims are free to worship. Or are these concentration camps in disguise? lol


China is a totalitarian state with no media, ofcourse they can twist and show what they want and make gullible people like you to believe in what they want. However there have been enought whistle blowers covered by the world media in exposing how china is wiping out religion through brutal means.

You like to point out indias crimes because you have the luxury of the free media exposing them, which the Chinese muslims unfortunately dont. Therefore you can go make fun of them while living in a bubble of yours,

these muslims can arrested for having beards or having veils

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51520622


Children have been separated from there parents, never to be seen again,

Even people reporting them have been murdered, yet you have the audacity to show your face and defend these criminals and ask for reports from a totalitarian state,


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-harvest-organs-un-human-rights-a9117911.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/world/asia/china-camps-muslims.html

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html

https://www.ccn.com/welcome-to-the-...ners-to-harvest-halal-organs-for-rich-saudis/
 
China is a totalitarian state with no media, ofcourse they can twist and show what they want and make gullible people like you to believe in what they want. However there have been enought whistle blowers covered by the world media in exposing how china is wiping out religion through brutal means.

You like to point out indias crimes because you have the luxury of the free media exposing them, which the Chinese muslims unfortunately dont. Therefore you can go make fun of them while living in a bubble of yours,

these muslims can arrested for having beards or having veils

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51520622


Children have been separated from there parents, never to be seen again,

Even people reporting them have been murdered, yet you have the audacity to show your face and defend these criminals and ask for reports from a totalitarian state,


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-harvest-organs-un-human-rights-a9117911.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/world/asia/china-camps-muslims.html

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html

https://www.ccn.com/welcome-to-the-...ners-to-harvest-halal-organs-for-rich-saudis/

lol, there is no free media in India. Over the years humatarian agencies have got in as India was pretending to be angels but they discovered otherwise. Since the Kashmir lockdown no journalist has entered, not even British politicians allowed in.

You dont have 36,000 mosques in a country which wants to "simply wants to wipe out religion ". Please explain why they are taking so long to wipe out these mosques?

You're pointing out non-indepenent reports but even if true, again and again and again this is a sepratist issue. China did this to the Tibetians, were they Muslims too?

You cannot see the difference of attacking a religion and it's followers which Israel and India are doing , to a nation attacking treasonous citizens.

Try asking for Manchester to be seperate and ingage in terrorism with hundreds, lets see if the British security forces let you pray or keep you in touch with your kids.
 
lol, there is no free media in India. Over the years humatarian agencies have got in as India was pretending to be angels but they discovered otherwise. Since the Kashmir lockdown no journalist has entered, not even British politicians allowed in.

You dont have 36,000 mosques in a country which wants to "simply wants to wipe out religion ". Please explain why they are taking so long to wipe out these mosques?

You're pointing out non-indepenent reports but even if true, again and again and again this is a sepratist issue. China did this to the Tibetians, were they Muslims too?

You cannot see the difference of attacking a religion and it's followers which Israel and India are doing , to a nation attacking treasonous citizens.

Try asking for Manchester to be seperate and ingage in terrorism with hundreds, lets see if the British security forces let you pray or keep you in touch with your kids.

You get worse with every response,

In terms of kashmir, BBC did enter and unbiased indian reporters have exposed them and given reports to the world media.

As for your nonsense about this being a separatist issue and about terroism, then guess what? thats the same excuse india and israel use against muslims, while we're at it lets believe saddam had WWM and US had to invade them because CIA said so, how gullible are you to believe a national gov. executing its own citizens and that too a communist totalitarian state that hates religion.

You even backtracked on your own arugment, they did this to tibetians too and also every other religon because they want a pure atheist state.

What there doing to Falun Gong is even worse, there not sparing even there own religons and are wiping them all out.

This has been covered by many

The Price of Freedom Denied by Brian J. Grim
Seeking a complete annihilation of religion, places of worship were shut down; temples, churches, and mosques were destroyed; artifacts were smashed; sacred texts were burnt; and it was a criminal offence even to possess a religious artifact or sacred text. Atheism had long been the official doctrine of the Chinese Communist Party, but this new form of militant atheism made every effort to eradicate religion completely.

Toward a modern Chinese Buddhism by Don Alvin Pittman
Yet in the first years after Liberation there were places in China where monasteries were destroyed, monks were beaten or killed, copies of the Buddhist canon were burned, and sacred images were melted down for their metal.


China's Leader Xi Jinping Reminds Party Members to Be 'Unyielding Marxist Atheists'

https://time.com/4306179/china-religion-freedom-xi-jinping-muslim-christian-xinjiang-buddhist-tibet/


China’s New Civil Religion

"officials have targeted Christianity and Islam with particular intensity because of their perceived foreign ties"

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/21/opinion/sunday/chinas-religion-xi.html


Xinjiang Authorities Launch Anti-Religion Campaign Through Local Police Stations

In February 2018, government authorities in Kashgar, launched an anti-religion propaganda drive through local police stations, which included policemen erecting a banner proclaiming “We Must Solemnly Reject Religion, Must Not Believe in Religion

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/campaign-02122018154124.html


China now setting up indoctrination centers, where they remove muslim children from there homes to turn them into atheists.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/china-islam-mental-illness-cured-181127135358356.html
 
It is the responsibility of international communities and other Muslim countries to help these people
 
China is a totalitarian state with no media, ofcourse they can twist and show what they want and make gullible people like you to believe in what they want. However there have been enought whistle blowers covered by the world media in exposing how china is wiping out religion through brutal means.

You like to point out indias crimes because you have the luxury of the free media exposing them, which the Chinese muslims unfortunately dont. Therefore you can go make fun of them while living in a bubble of yours,

these muslims can arrested for having beards or having veils

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51520622


Children have been separated from there parents, never to be seen again,

Even people reporting them have been murdered, yet you have the audacity to show your face and defend these criminals and ask for reports from a totalitarian state,


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-harvest-organs-un-human-rights-a9117911.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/world/asia/china-camps-muslims.html

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html

https://www.ccn.com/welcome-to-the-...ners-to-harvest-halal-organs-for-rich-saudis/


Thanks but I dont need links, again see the mega thread I've answered such allegations. There is no independent way to varify such claims.

I never said China is treating them well, I pointed out they are not because of their sepratist agenda not because of religion.

You made two claims Im insterested in debunking.

1. India and Israel are not as bad. India have killed over 70,000 and Israel over 100,000. Not to forget rape, torture, detention, curfews, taking organs..the list goes on. Chinese only want them to be loyal to the state but of course they can be stict, its a communist nation.

2. You wrote ""simply wants to wipe out religion". I've pointed out the number of mosques but there are also churches, temples etc. Hundreds of millions practice religion in China, you're statement is simply false.
 
New Horrors: China Harvesting Muslim Organs in Concentration Camps.

“I was called by my chief surgeon to go to a room near the Urumqi execution grounds to remove the liver and two kidneys from an executed prisoner,” Enver Tohti, an exiled Uyghur oncology surgeon, told me. “It turned out he wasn’t fully dead because they [Chinese execution squad] shot him through the right chest [intentionally] to knock him out [without killing him], so I would have time to remove his organs,” a surgery his chief surgeon demand he perform without giving the prisoner an anaesthetic.

Tohti would see the man’s still beating heart as he removed his kidneys and liver.

This deliberately botched execution of a Uyghur prisoner took place in 1995, and would be the first time Tohti witnessed and unwittingly participated in China’s live organ harvesting program, telling a UK newspaper in 2013 that it wasn’t years later until he realized what he had been a part of, and just how widespread and systematic the practice had become in the Uyghur Muslim majority region.

Three years later, Tohti fled China after disclosing how a nuclear weapons testing facility in Xinjiang was causing a spike in cancer rates among the Uyghur, and in 1998 he helped a British media production company produce a documentary on nuclear radiation in the region titled Death of the Silk Road.

Last month, Tohti told Radio Free Asia that he believes the main customers of live Uyghur Muslim organs are wealthy Saudi transplant recipients, with China grotesquely and preposterously marketing these illegally removed body parts as “Halal organs,” despite the fact there’s no such thing in Islamic ruling or practice.

When I pressed Tohti on this claim, he admitted to having no direct evidence, only unverified second-hand accounts, of China selling or marketing “halal” organs to wealthy Saudi organ recipients, and insisted it was something “best not spoken about until it could be confirmed,” but when I asked why he no longer stands by the earlier assertion he gave RFA, he pivoted to expressing fear for his mother’s safety, who remains in Xinjiang.

Uyghur activists, including Arslan Hidayat, son-in-law of missing famous Uyghur Muslim comic Adil Mijit, have told me how China threatens the family members of those living abroad, specifically those who speak out publicly against its crimes in Xinjiang.

According to Tohti, however, the demand for Uyghur organs outweighs supply, and thus explains why CCP authorities in Xinjiang implemented compulsory blood sample collection from Uyghur Muslims via the National Health Medical Examination, with the objective of creating a “live organ-matching database.”

Dr Faisal Shaheen, director of the Saudi Center for Organ Transplants, told Arabian Business that 410 Saudis had purchased organs in a single two-year period spanning 2012–14 from “black markets” in China, Egypt and Pakistan, while also adding that 7,000 Saudi patients are in need of kidney transplants.

The European Parliament’s public health committee and human rights subcommittee says illegally harvested kidneys fetch as much as 150,000 Euros (US$165,000) each!

This week, UK lawmakers warned citizens desperate for transplant operations that they could be unknowingly “playing a role in the profiteering of atrocities against inmates in the Communist government’s network if prisons and detention camps.”

With upwards of 2 million Uyghur Muslims held in a network of concentration camps and prisons throughout Xinjiang and the rest of China, amounting to the largest mass detention of a religious minority since the worst pogroms of the middle 20th century, the case against China’s barbaric practice of harvesting the live organs of Muslims is becoming ever more damning.

In 2016, the UK Parliament heard a presentation titled “Bloody Harvest/Slaughter,” a name taken from two books by respective authors Ethan Gutmann; and David Kilgour and David Matas. It provides credible evidence China has established a “complete industry chain” for harvesting organs of political prisoners, observing that minorities have been specifically targeted, including Uyghur Muslims, Tibetans, House Christians, and Falun Gong practitioners.

In fact, this report cited Tohti, the Uyghur surgeon I interviewed for this article, crediting him as being the “first known case of live organ harvesting,” corroborating his claim that he extracted “the kidneys and liver from a prisoner who had been shot in the chest with the objective not to kill the prisoner but to send the prisoner’s body into shock.”

The authors also observe how “another medical witness described being forced to administer blood tests of Uyghur political prisoners on behalf of a handful of ageing, high-ranking, Chinese Communist Party officials who needed tissue-matching organs,” adding that because “the officials had travelled to Urumqi specifically for the operations, this can be seen as one of the first cases of ‘organ tourism,’ albeit within China’s borders, while also underscoring that the Party was explicitly involved in the forced organ harvesting of political and religious prisoners from the very beginning.”

The evidence against China not only forms a body of evidence, but also a “field of knowledge” in its own right, with several books published on the issue, including State Organs: Transplant Abuse in China (2012); The Slaughter: Mass Killings Organ Harvesting, and China’s Secret Solution to Its Dissident Problem (2014); Bloody Harvest (2009), The Slaughter (2014); alongside dozens of articles published in well-credentialed journals, several documentaries, and a NGO that is dedicated to bringing an end to China’s practice of harvesting live organs from political prisoners — Doctors Against Forced Organ Harvesting (DAFOH).

In fact, a UK panel has found the evidence and testimonies that have emerged during its investigations into China’s live-organ harvesting program so “overwhelming,” it took what Biter Winter has described as the “unusual step” of releasing interim findings before its final ruling, doing so in the hope “the oxygen of publicity given to the allegations made and supported to the extent they are by our interim judgment, may allow the real oxygen of life to continue life itself in some who might otherwise be killed.”

As for claims, China is removing live organs from executed Uyghur Muslims and marketing them as “halal” and then distributing via a network to wealthy Saudi clients, we know that China has taken the biometric data of the upwards of 2 million Uyghur it holds in its concentration camps, along with those of millions of others in Xinjiang, and we also know that as many as 100,000 organ transplants are carried out each year in China, according to the authors of Bloody Harvest/Slaughter.

In an interview with the Uighur Times, Tohti showed the online newspaper a photograph of the Human Organ Transportation Green-Path (HOTGP) at Urumqi International Airport, which allegedly provides a channel for large numbers of human organs to be shipped out of the country to recipients around the world, a claim supported by a photograph that went viral on social media showing a priority lane sign marked “Special Passengers, Human Organ Exportation Lane.”

China Southern Airline has reported more than 500 organ transportations since Tohti gave the newspaper an interview in early March, according to the Uighur Times, a claim I’ve been unable to verify, although the Chinese government owned China Daily announced the airline had launched a “green passage” to transport what it claims are “donated” organs.

These crimes against humanity are every bit as horrific as they unimaginable, but given Uyghur activists have described to me and many others how Uyghur Muslims detained in concentration camps are being subjected to gang rapes, sterilization programs, systematic torture, forced marriage to Han Chinese citizens, forced disappearances and executions, there’s every reason to believe claims of live-organ harvesting barely scratch the surface of what is the largest cultural genocide of Muslims in modern times.

https://extranewsfeed.com/new-horro...im-organs-in-concentration-camps-9a252d3c373e

At times there is a bit too much claims and too little evidence in this article. Concerning report, nonetheless.
 
Seeing how they treat other han people or even animals, I have no doubt that Muslims are living miserable life in China. No matter what China does for Pakistan, nothing will compensate for what communist regime did to Uyghurs. In fact communist apologists are no different than RSS members.
 
Seeing how they treat other han people or even animals, I have no doubt that Muslims are living miserable life in China. No matter what China does for Pakistan, nothing will compensate for what communist regime did to Uyghurs. In fact communist apologists are no different than RSS members.

China doesnt do anything for pakistan, they have there own interests there and need access to the arabian seas, then they load the country up with debt, its a text book classic in the modern day era to wage war on a country without fighting it with an army, unfortunately some have become to blind to see it.
 
China doesnt do anything for pakistan, they have there own interests there and need access to the arabian seas, then they load the country up with debt, its a text book classic in the modern day era to wage war on a country without fighting it with an army, unfortunately some have become to blind to see it.

No doubt about it. No body does anything for free. No matter how close China supposedly is to Pakistan, they expect something in return for their investments.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“Why are we exploring Xinjiang [East Turkestan]? Because we Chinese are going to be rich.”<br><br>A Chinese professor explains to his students at Zhejiang University why Han Chinese must ethnically cleanse Uyghur Muslims.<br><br>Date: unknown <a href="https://t.co/vIptoNtltF">pic.twitter.com/vIptoNtltF</a></p>— CJ Werleman (@cjwerleman) <a href="https://twitter.com/cjwerleman/status/1263247785224069120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 20, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He openly says that Han Chinese should go to Turkestan. How is that any different than what we accuse India of trying to do in Kashmir? A demographic change just to curb separatism?

Turekestan is sujugated to Chinese colonialism, as this guy clearly states the reason behing holding on to it: Exploit its ressources.
 
Credit to that professor for being so motivated though.. all my professors were so er mild and lethargic.

He also mentions Pakistan btw or anything with ‘stan’, Its clear why China has risen so fast, they are so motivated to make up for the last century.
 
having strong political opinion means a professor would be motivated for teaching and research?

Depend upon what he is teaching though but even in general interaction I don’t see many professors that motivated for their “country”.

Ofcourse to me personally such kind of nationalism would be annoying but seeing how CHINA has done well..
 
I dont need to, I know the subject well. Perhaps you should merge it with the related thread, all my posts are there.

Nope, no need to merge it.

In light of new evidence, a new discussion of the topic is appropriate. Perhaps you need to update your knowledge. It seems you prefer sticking with what you read about the issue in the 90s and don't bother looking at the current state of affairs where things have turned from bad to ugly.

[...]
From an Islamic pov you should not fight against the state if the state is allowing you to practice your faith, ie the 5 pillars which is no issue for any Muslim in China.[...]

The last time I checked people of Kashmir were allowed to practice the 5 pillars.

Since Modi's rise there has been an increase in anti-Muslim sentiments and vilifying of Muslims but I still think Muslim are allowed to:

1. Declare Shahadah
2. Pray the 5 daily obligatory prayers
3. Fast during Ramadan
4. Donate Zakat Money
5. Apply for Hajj pilgrimage

Which of these 5 pillars of Islam are forbidden in Kashmir that their fight against the state is from an Islamic POV justified?

Which 5 pillars of Islam are forbidden in Gaza that their rocket attacks at the Israeli state are from an Islamic POV justified?

Which of the 5 pillars of Islam were forbidden in the British occupied Indian Subcontinent that the fight for Independence was justified from an Islamic POV?

Were those who were killed in the Sepoy Mutiny rightfully Shaheed? Were those who betrayed Tipu Sultan correct?

It seems by the flawed Islamic standard you presented the Kashmiri insurgency is Islamically forbidden among many other similar movements. In fact, the Indian Army would be on the right for eliminating the unjustified rebellion against the state.

[...]
Again this started in the 1930's, these people have had decades to stop their attacks against the state but haven't.

Anyone who thinks they are being targetted because they are Muslims are clueless like Trump with the virus.

When was the last recorded attack by Uyghur " separatists " in China? How many such attacks have been conducted by the separatists in the past 30 years? Were these attacks conducted by the large support of the population or a few fringe extremists’ elements with the society?

How many active Uyghur separatists movements are still there?

What is the motivation for separatism?

Is it not the same motivation which was also behind the movement for a separate state by the colonialized Muslims of the British occupied Indian subcontinent: a different cultural identity than the rest of population based on religious ground?

Regardless of their religion were people of India " separatists " when they decided that it's time for British colonialists to leave?

Is your support for the independence movement of people of Kashmir based on sound principles of sympathy for oppressed people or is it based on animosity towards India and Indian state?

Are your opinions defined by the official stance of the Pakistani state? If it supports Kashmiri cause you support, it and if it whitewashes or ignores Chinese atrocities you too will whitewash and ignore it?

At the end of the day can you at least acknowledge that regardless of whats and whys such persecution of whole community is on the principal of humanity bad and deserves to be condemned?

While some Hindu extremists celebrate what China is doing and fanatasize about doing the same in India, the overzealous Pakistani partiots like to justify the autrocities.
 
Has Chinese media accepted that these are repressive policies? If not, then they aren’t.
 
I hope the Muslims takeover China.

They don't eat pangolins for a start.
 
Nope, no need to merge it.

In light of new evidence, a new discussion of the topic is appropriate. Perhaps you need to update your knowledge. It seems you prefer sticking with what you read about the issue in the 90s and don't bother looking at the current state of affairs where things have turned from bad to ugly.



The last time I checked people of Kashmir were allowed to practice the 5 pillars.

Since Modi's rise there has been an increase in anti-Muslim sentiments and vilifying of Muslims but I still think Muslim are allowed to:

1. Declare Shahadah
2. Pray the 5 daily obligatory prayers
3. Fast during Ramadan
4. Donate Zakat Money
5. Apply for Hajj pilgrimage

Which of these 5 pillars of Islam are forbidden in Kashmir that their fight against the state is from an Islamic POV justified?

Which 5 pillars of Islam are forbidden in Gaza that their rocket attacks at the Israeli state are from an Islamic POV justified?

Which of the 5 pillars of Islam were forbidden in the British occupied Indian Subcontinent that the fight for Independence was justified from an Islamic POV?

Were those who were killed in the Sepoy Mutiny rightfully Shaheed? Were those who betrayed Tipu Sultan correct?

It seems by the flawed Islamic standard you presented the Kashmiri insurgency is Islamically forbidden among many other similar movements. In fact, the Indian Army would be on the right for eliminating the unjustified rebellion against the state.



When was the last recorded attack by Uyghur " separatists " in China? How many such attacks have been conducted by the separatists in the past 30 years? Were these attacks conducted by the large support of the population or a few fringe extremistsÂ’ elements with the society?

How many active Uyghur separatists movements are still there?

What is the motivation for separatism?

Is it not the same motivation which was also behind the movement for a separate state by the colonialized Muslims of the British occupied Indian subcontinent: a different cultural identity than the rest of population based on religious ground?

Regardless of their religion were people of India " separatists " when they decided that it's time for British colonialists to leave?

Is your support for the independence movement of people of Kashmir based on sound principles of sympathy for oppressed people or is it based on animosity towards India and Indian state?

Are your opinions defined by the official stance of the Pakistani state? If it supports Kashmiri cause you support, it and if it whitewashes or ignores Chinese atrocities you too will whitewash and ignore it?

At the end of the day can you at least acknowledge that regardless of whats and whys such persecution of whole community is on the principal of humanity bad and deserves to be condemned?

While some Hindu extremists celebrate what China is doing and fanatasize about doing the same in India, the overzealous Pakistani partiots like to justify the autrocities.

He's lost his marbles. What China is doing is way worse then anyone. Anyone with a sound brain can see that. Some of us Pakistanis have become ghulams of China and will defend them at all costs.
 
Its useless arguing with people who will blindly defend something, despite providing all the evidence there is and they cant produce a single piece and only reply with 'i don't need links, i've made up my mind'

Its worse then speaking to a brick wall
 
He's lost his marbles. What China is doing is way worse then anyone. Anyone with a sound brain can see that. Some of us Pakistanis have become ghulams of China and will defend them at all costs.

I think Pakistan needs to stop pretending. Let's admit that we rely heavily on China and calling out China could harm our relationship, therefore we choose to remain silent over this issue and won't address it in public.

The whole world can see the reality anyway so why try to somehow look for ways to come clean when there is none.

Shouldn't the people of Islamic republic know that from an Islamic POV there are only three ways of responding to oppression and persecution:

- Stop it with your own hands.
- If you don't have the power to stop it then speak up against it and condemn it publicly
- If even that's not possible then remain silent, while bad mouthing it in your heart.

Sugarcoating it or trying to look for ways to justify it isn't one of the three.
 
Nope, no need to merge it.

In light of new evidence, a new discussion of the topic is appropriate. Perhaps you need to update your knowledge. It seems you prefer sticking with what you read about the issue in the 90s and don't bother looking at the current state of affairs where things have turned from bad to ugly.



The last time I checked people of Kashmir were allowed to practice the 5 pillars.

Since Modi's rise there has been an increase in anti-Muslim sentiments and vilifying of Muslims but I still think Muslim are allowed to:

1. Declare Shahadah
2. Pray the 5 daily obligatory prayers
3. Fast during Ramadan
4. Donate Zakat Money
5. Apply for Hajj pilgrimage

Which of these 5 pillars of Islam are forbidden in Kashmir that their fight against the state is from an Islamic POV justified?

Which 5 pillars of Islam are forbidden in Gaza that their rocket attacks at the Israeli state are from an Islamic POV justified?

Which of the 5 pillars of Islam were forbidden in the British occupied Indian Subcontinent that the fight for Independence was justified from an Islamic POV?

Were those who were killed in the Sepoy Mutiny rightfully Shaheed? Were those who betrayed Tipu Sultan correct?

It seems by the flawed Islamic standard you presented the Kashmiri insurgency is Islamically forbidden among many other similar movements. In fact, the Indian Army would be on the right for eliminating the unjustified rebellion against the state.



When was the last recorded attack by Uyghur " separatists " in China? How many such attacks have been conducted by the separatists in the past 30 years? Were these attacks conducted by the large support of the population or a few fringe extremists’ elements with the society?

How many active Uyghur separatists movements are still there?

What is the motivation for separatism?

Is it not the same motivation which was also behind the movement for a separate state by the colonialized Muslims of the British occupied Indian subcontinent: a different cultural identity than the rest of population based on religious ground?

Regardless of their religion were people of India " separatists " when they decided that it's time for British colonialists to leave?

Is your support for the independence movement of people of Kashmir based on sound principles of sympathy for oppressed people or is it based on animosity towards India and Indian state?

Are your opinions defined by the official stance of the Pakistani state? If it supports Kashmiri cause you support, it and if it whitewashes or ignores Chinese atrocities you too will whitewash and ignore it?

At the end of the day can you at least acknowledge that regardless of whats and whys such persecution of whole community is on the principal of humanity bad and deserves to be condemned?

While some Hindu extremists celebrate what China is doing and fanatasize about doing the same in India, the overzealous Pakistani partiots like to justify the autrocities.

Sure, ill address this but please make your points simple and to the point. You might be bored but Im not.

1. The Five pillars were for China, as it's not occupied land. When the land is occupied, even if you act your 5 pillars you are still allowed to fight back as your home has been occupied. In Int law, China is not occupying them but Indians and Israelis are. When you try to compare both , this is when you are getting confused.

2. Attacks by sepratists have been on-going for decades, these have only decreased due to China's policies towards them. You can find out yourself when the last attack was, but it wasnt years ago.

Im not saying China is right, nobody should be made to suffer. However its not an occupation or supression of religous freedom in China towards ANY Muslims. These people should accept being part of China and work with other Chinese Muslims to improve their lives. Chinese Muslims in other areas are living a good life, free to practice etc.

If a bunch of Hindus want part of Pakistani land , what do you think will happen to them if they use terrorism or brutality to force this point?
 
Sure, ill address this but please make your points simple and to the point. You might be bored but Im not.

1. The Five pillars were for China, as it's not occupied land. When the land is occupied, even if you act your 5 pillars you are still allowed to fight back as your home has been occupied. In Int law, China is not occupying them but Indians and Israelis are. When you try to compare both , this is when you are getting confused.

2. Attacks by sepratists have been on-going for decades, these have only decreased due to China's policies towards them. You can find out yourself when the last attack was, but it wasnt years ago.

Im not saying China is right, nobody should be made to suffer. However its not an occupation or supression of religous freedom in China towards ANY Muslims. These people should accept being part of China and work with other Chinese Muslims to improve their lives. Chinese Muslims in other areas are living a good life, free to practice etc.

If a bunch of Hindus want part of Pakistani land , what do you think will happen to them if they use terrorism or brutality to force this point?

1. International laws don't decide which group of people who are culturally and historically different deserve to feel oppressed and occupied and which do not. For the vast majority of human history these international laws didn't exist.

In 1800s was it called British occupation of Indian subcontinent or was it called "The British Raj" to make it sound poetic? Which "International law" existed back then as a guidance for Muslims?

Any reference from Quran and Hadith which say that International law decides if Muslims feel occupied or not.

Your argument that fighting in China isn't legal from an Islamic POV is completely wrong and there are so many aspects I could bring up but they don't matter to you anyway.

2. You are intentionally avoiding to answer this question as it exposes your weak argument.

We have never seen the average Turkestan population attending mass funeral for killed separatists as we do in India, still you think one or two attack in a year justify the mass oppression of millions of people. Vast majority of Uyghur have been looking for a political answer and not through violent means. East Turkestan People's Revolutionary Party for example was disbanded in 1989. Way before Chinese crackdown on Uyghur and its increase in oppression.

In fact what we can observed is that over the years as China increased its oppression more and more Uyghur resorted to violence. It has been counter-productive.

Chinese Muslims in other part of the country may feel that China is their homeland and are ethnically close to Han Chinese but Uyghur people who are far away in west to the mainland china consider Chinese to be a foreign people and I shall be ashamed of myself to tell them they should accept the Chinese imperialism if the people themselves refuse to do so.

I'm sure there were Muslims during the "British Raj" who had nice sentiments towards the British and didn't take part in the Sepoy mutiny. It didn't make British occupation any more legal or discredited the rebellion against it.

I respect people's choice for self-determination. China had enough time to win over the local population of Uyghur and it not only failed but is further marginalizing the population.

If a large number of Hindus in Pakistan started to ask for more self-determination I sure as hell wouldn't advocate destroying their temples and try to Islamize them. I would not forcefully marry Hindu women to Muslim men. I'd look for their concerns and isolate the minority extremists from the majority. I won't justify one evil due to another evil.

The scenario you presented is so hypothetical it's difficult to go into detail on what should happen to such a people. Besides in contrast to Uyghur, Muslims and Hindus in Pakistan alike are for the most part the same people historically and have been intermixing for centuries. While, the Uyghur and Han-Chinese are not, no matter how often you arrogantly label them as "Chinese Muslims".

In my original reply I went into detail not because I am bored but to fully present my arguments. Many of the questions you decided to ignore were meant to drive my point home: situation in Kashmir, Palestine and Turkestan is the same and based on same principles. No amount of modern International laws hold any authority to dictate which large number of people deserve to feel occupied and which don't.
 
You missed a vital point and now want me to read a book.

Int law is what constitutes an occupation.

China is not occupying their land, it belongs to them, so they have no right to self defence. Kashmiris and Palestinians do. This point is simple and explains everything, deny it or not makes no difference to reality.
 
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