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How do India produce so many home track bullies?

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Ted123

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I mean its amazing how great this team does at home but overseas continues to depend on one or two players.

Below are some players whose home away disparity questions their adaptability in test cricket.

Rohit Sharma
Cheteswar Pujara
Mayank Agarwal
Prithvi Shaw
Ravi Ashwin
Mohammad Shami
Ravindra Jadeja

That is 7. 7 match winners at home who can't buy runs and take wickets overseas. Home track bullies they are but test cricket is about adaptability in all conditions and not just bullying at home and becoming a walking wicket overseas.

Discuss!
 
Apart from shami and agarwal(has some technical issues but can score runs), all others are home track bullies for sure.
 
Indian batsmen historically have had and will always have problems with moving ball. That's just the nature of pitches/conditions back home which does not let them adapt to seaming)swinging conditions.

Having said the above every batsmen struggles in such conditions and if someone survives such conditions then that innings is considered legendary. SENA batsmen have better chance of surviving since they are brought up in such conditions.
 
Why some posters constantly insult Pujara day in and day out?

If you call Pujara a home track bully, you need to stop watching cricket.
 
This is Shaw's first test away from home and first in 15 months. Unfair to form a judgement based on this small a sample size. And Mayank has performed alright so far on away soil and averages 57 in Australia and NZ .

And if Ashwin and Jadeja are HTB, then so are Starc, Hazlewood, Rabada , Boult, Anderson, Broad etc are all HTBs as they go AWOL when they come to Asia. Point is every test bowler of this day and age is a HTB with stats better at home than away.

No arguments about Rohit though , he is a certified HTB in Tests and FTB in LOIs.
 
And Pujara basically won us the series in Australia by grinding down Starc, Cummins and co. Has a good record in SAF and done well on the last Eng tour. Only place he's failed is Nz. Don't know how one can call him a HTB.
 
Likes of pujara rahane are not too bad but they are kids compared to likes of rahul laxman etc
 
Every team has its share of home track bullies. But those players don’t even perform at home leave alone away.. so the Indian difference is more glaring ..
Shaw is playing 3rd game and agarwal 10th game so not sure why u say them as htb
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Why some posters constantly insult Pujara day in and day out?

If you call Pujara a home track bully, you need to stop watching cricket.
Click to expand...

He deserves all the insult he gets,he has done nothing significant apart from that australia series in away conditions.
The way he played today is his usual scoring pattern,plays 80+ balls and gets out after making 25,thats not how an elite batsman plays like,he is a strokeless wonder.
But still he is our second best batsman,so his place in the team is totally secure.
 
Ted123 said:
I mean its amazing how great this team does at home but overseas continues to depend on one or two players.

Below are some players whose home away disparity questions their adaptability in test cricket.

Rohit Sharma
Cheteswar Pujara
Mayank Agarwal
Prithvi Shaw
Ravi Ashwin
Mohammad Shami
Ravindra Jadeja

That is 7. 7 match winners at home who can't buy runs and take wickets overseas. Home track bullies they are but test cricket is about adaptability in all conditions and not just bullying at home and becoming a walking wicket overseas.

Discuss!
Click to expand...

How is mayank agarwal a FTB?
He played a decent innings today and was outstanding in australia.
Mohammad Shami isnt a ftb,how can u even say that,he has performed against SA in Sa and was nbrilliant against aus.
Prithvi has just started his career FGS,its like saying naseem shah is a ftb.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
He deserves all the insult he gets,he has done nothing significant apart from that australia series in away conditions.
The way he played today is his usual scoring pattern,plays 80+ balls and gets out after making 25,thats not how an elite batsman plays like,he is a strokeless wonder.
But still he is our second best batsman,so his place in the team is totally secure.
Click to expand...

Let's see.

Scored in SA 2013 series.
Failed in NZ 2014 series.
Failed in Eng 2014 series.
Okayish in Aus 2014 series (nothing great but he played a role in drawing 2 tests)

After this things changed.

Solid in SA 2018 (first test and third test - low scoring series - helped India win a test)
Very good in Eng 2018 (played a match winning support role in a test and single handedly tried to save us in Southampton)
Legendary in Aus 2018
Now failed in 2 innings in NZ 2018

---

It's one thing to criticise him but another to call him a HTB.

He's no HTB.
 
Mesozoic said:
This is Shaw's first test away from home and first in 15 months. Unfair to form a judgement based on this small a sample size. And Mayank has performed alright so far on away soil and averages 57 in Australia and NZ .

And if Ashwin and Jadeja are HTB, then so are Starc, Hazlewood, Rabada , Boult, Anderson, Broad etc are all HTBs as they go AWOL when they come to Asia. Point is every test bowler of this day and age is a HTB with stats better at home than away.

No arguments about Rohit though , he is a certified HTB in Tests and FTB in LOIs.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Asian inferiority complex is something else.

You will see it pop up every now and then.

The biggest critics of spin tracks will be our own Asian brothers. However a green mamba (or say a spicy pitch) on Day 1 that turns flat on day 2 will called a FAIR pitch :)))

You can't make this nonsense up but people do it all the time.

---

Anderson has done well everywhere atleast once so I will exclude him.

But guys like Starc, Hazlewood, Rabada....what have they done in Asia?

Zilch.
 
Not exactly home track bullies but they haven't done well in SENA which is why we have struggled over there.

Agarwal is better, he averages 65 away in Australia and around 45 in NZ after this two inning. Don't think he has played in SL.

Pujara has improved a lot over time but he needs to improve his record in SEN which is poor.

Shami averages 34 with bowl in SENA but 30 away. So, not a HTB, more like Indian James Anderson.

Ashwin has struggled in SENA which is why irrespective of that 25 AVG don't consider him an ATG not even considering his batting.

Jaddu is not an HTB either but his records are misleading again.

Rohit has improved his batting overseas from past but again not a man for SENA.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Let's see.

Scored in SA 2013 series.
Failed in NZ 2014 series.
Failed in Eng 2014 series.
Okayish in Aus 2014 series (nothing great but he played a role in drawing 2 tests)

After this things changed.

Solid in SA 2018 (first test and third test - low scoring series - helped India win a test)
Very good in Eng 2018 (played a match winning support role in a test and single handedly tried to save us in Southampton)
Legendary in Aus 2018
Now failed in 2 innings in NZ 2018

---

It's one thing to criticise him but another to call him a HTB.

He's no HTB.
Click to expand...

He was awful in that SA tour,if you think one decent innings is good enough then i think your expectations are too low.
He was okish n england,Very good?really his average was 39,thats not "very good" .
An average of 39 in a particular country is considered low for an elite batsman.
Failed in west indies,which you conveniently ignored.

I too dont agree with the fact that he is an outright ftb(atleast he blunts the ball)but he is not an elite batsman thats for sure.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
He was awful in that SA tour,if you think one decent innings is good enough then i think your expectations are too low.
He was okish n england,Very good?really his average was 39,thats not "very good" .
An average of 39 in a particular country is considered low for an elite batsman.
Failed in west indies,which you conveniently ignored.

I too dont agree with the fact that he is an outright ftb(atleast he blunts the ball)but he is not an elite batsman thats for sure.
Click to expand...

WI I didn't remember stats. Ok failed there in one series.

Average of 39 in a LOW scoring series is not bad at all. Many past legends got patta wickets in England and made hay. Pujara got some brutal pitches last time around.

80 odd in a won game.
148 in Southampton scoring the last 50 odd runs with Ishant if I remember correctly.

SA series 2018 was super low scoring too. Made a great knock in the test we won. Was quite solid in first test when wickets were tumbling at the other end. He wasn't awful by any means in that series. Wasn't great but not awful. Only player who did better than him was Kohli in that series.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
WI I didn't remember stats. Ok failed there in one series.

Average of 39 in a LOW scoring series is not bad at all. Many past legends got patta wickets in England and made hay. Pujara got some brutal pitches last time around.

80 odd in a won game.
148 in Southampton scoring the last 50 odd runs with Ishant if I remember correctly.

SA series 2018 was super low scoring too. Made a great knock in the test we won. Was quite solid in first test when wickets were tumbling at the other end. He wasn't awful by any means in that series. Wasn't great but not awful. Only player who did better than him was Kohli in that series.
Click to expand...

Pujara averages 27 in South Africa, England and New Zealand combined.

29 in England
31 in SA
14 in New Zealand

Poor by all standards. You can't only score a hundred in 10 innings at peak of your career. Not a HTB by any means though but needs to improve.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
If we consider Ashwin as an FTB,then theres no spinner in the world who isnt a ftb.
Click to expand...

Ashwin is overrated as hell. Murali, Warne, Swann, Kumble, Harbhajan all have run through good sides away from home in overseas conditions. What does Ashwin has? Zero 5-fer in SENA.
 
@ Mesozoic

the yardstick for india will always be different because it’s got the richest board, richest players, mad fan following and what’s the result?

Anyway in few decades cricket will only be played in the subcontinent so the heartbreaks on these away tours will stop
 
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Ab Fan said:
Pujara averages 27 in South Africa, England and New Zealand combined.

29 in England
31 in SA
14 in New Zealand

Poor by all standards. You can't only score a hundred in 10 innings at peak of your career. Not a HTB by any means though but needs to improve.
Click to expand...

Due to first overseas cycle where he was an HTB barring a few innings.

What are the SENA numbers this cycle?
 
retterimp said:
@ Mesozoic

the yardstick for india will always be different because it’s got the richest board, richest players, mad fan following and what’s the result?

Anyway in few decades cricket will only be played in the subcontinent so the heartbreaks on these away tours will stop
Click to expand...

lol stop spouting rubbish. india are still a 3rd world country. SENA countries have far bigger advantages wirh their standard of living, diet, infrastrucure, facilities and nutrition. India have done well to be where they are. Only behind australia in world cup wins and are ranked 1 in test cricket for the past 4 years.

Introduction of Ipl has helped india a fair bit but the bcci being a rich board doesn't benefit players in any way.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yeah but Asian inferiority complex is something else.

You will see it pop up every now and then.

The biggest critics of spin tracks will be our own Asian brothers. However a green mamba (or say a spicy pitch) on Day 1 that turns flat on day 2 will called a FAIR pitch :)))

You can't make this nonsense up but people do it all the time.

---

Anderson has done well everywhere atleast once so I will exclude him.

But guys like Starc, Hazlewood, Rabada....what have they done in Asia?

Zilch.
Click to expand...

exactly they are all home bullies. Worse than home bullies.

australian and n.z players are huge home bullies too.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Due to first overseas cycle where he was an HTB barring a few innings.

What are the SENA numbers this cycle?
Click to expand...

16 in SA and 39 in England.

Whatever it is but he hasn't been a success in S.E.N as those numbers suggest- 31, 29 and 14. Avgs 20 in Windies but you can drop that off. Any average less than 35 is a failure as long as you don't have an inning like the one Dravid had in Adelaide 2003 and Kolkata '01.

He was brilliant in Australia which we all know.
 
The reason why I consider Pujara to be the Poor Man's Dravid is because his only spectacular SENA performance was in Australia where the ball doesn't seam and where the local bowlers had just lost the benefits of sandpaper.
 
this is what they are Ghar ke Sher aur bahar ke chuhe bhi Nahi.I still remember the greatest FTB HTB Rohit Sharma once said to steyn "come to India and we will see" that was really so laughable. Poor home track bullies.
 
Invincible Gujjar said:
this is what they are Ghar ke Sher aur bahar ke chuhe bhi Nahi.I still remember the greatest FTB HTB Rohit Sharma once said to steyn "come to India and we will see" that was really so laughable. Poor home track bullies.
Click to expand...

won a series in australia. have you even drawn a test there?
south africa 3 0. remember that?
 
its sad to call Shami and Pujara in tht list as flat track or home track bully...they are not, period

the rest in the list are but then thats problem for almost all asian batsmen apart from the greats of the game

Big disappointments are Rohit Sharma, Ashwin and Jadeja

Rohit Sharma has been around for good part of 12-13 years in international cricket and shld have adjusted in test cricket but he is seriously rediculous in tests

Ashwin and Jadeja can only bowl on dust wickets, similar to Yasir but better than him slightly away .. but compare that to like of Swan, Lyon , they are extremly poor....

one other thing is that indian A team plays a LOT of cricket in SA, Aus and Eng and NZ ... so its not as alien condition to them as they are for the likes of Pak and SL .... indian team shld be much more used to these but they are extremly poor overseas...

still better than us unfortunatly ....
 
@tyron

Your post is all over the place so I’m not sure where to start. And ironically you called my post rubbish.

India will never become second world, let alone first. So india should never be expected to dominate away series despite cricket being the undisputed no. 1 sport in india? Also, is SA a first world country?

In olympics we regularly see performers from dirt poor african nations, what happens to your theory then?

Even ranji players earn far more than median income, I won’t even talk about national team. This clearly shows BCCI’s wealth is being used quite effectively. You’ve been wrong on all counts, which is not surprising because you were just making random excuses
 
tyron_woodley said:
won a series in australia. have you even drawn a test there?
south africa 3 0. remember that?
Click to expand...

they won due to the absence of David Warner and Steve Smith and whole cricketing world knows this otherwise they would have been beaten badly and I don't boast about my team is being no.1 and I m not arrogant like you and your country men.You fans deserve this humiliation.swaad hi bohut ae India Di haar vich.Keep em coming
 
They are extremely weak against seam movement. Not so much against swing . Anyway , home bullying is important too. Its why, unlike other Asian teams, we thrash NZ at home atleast.
 
Lmao.. rare bad days for Indian players are the only positive news in Cricket for certain individuals.

Agarwal, Pujara and Shaw home track bullies? :))
 
retterimp said:
@tyron

Your post is all over the place so I’m not sure where to start. And ironically you called my post rubbish.

India will never become second world, let alone first. So india should never be expected to dominate away series despite cricket being the undisputed no. 1 sport in india? Also, is SA a first world country?

In olympics we regularly see performers from dirt poor african nations, what happens to your theory then?

Even ranji players earn far more than median income, I won’t even talk about national team. This clearly shows BCCI’s wealth is being used quite effectively. You’ve been wrong on all counts, which is not surprising because you were just making random excuses
Click to expand...

south africa is ahead of india by miles in terms of standard of living.

Anyway india have won 2 world cups and have been ranked number 1 in test cricket for a while. They have done fine.

australia is far richer with better resources and sporting infrastructure. India don't have access to such advatanges.

what dirt poor nations? Those so called dirt poor nations still have access to better sporting facilities, training, diet and nutrition compared to india. India have done well with limited resources. Could they have achieved more? sure but it wasn't until ipl was Introduced did we see major changes in Indian cricket.

Economy is a strong indicator of success for elitist sports. Average indian won't be able to afford to play sports In general.
 
Lol. Pujara has more hundreds outside Asia than Benchmark Babar. Lol at FTB.

Shaw played his 1st test outside Asia.

Mayank scored in Aus. Scored a fifty in one of the two innings here.

I understand that if you dont have many world class players, than therevis a constant need to try and slate players of your rival, but this is hilarious.
 
Haha, Pujara averages 35 in SENA. Talk about benchmark.

Anyone who saw Prithvi Shaw bat can figure out how terrible his technique is against moving ball.Is this the next Tendulkar? Some home games will be more than enough to bring back the confidence. Nevertheless, Rohit will be back for home tests.

Among bowlers, Shami looked so clueless today. Look at his stats in SENA, comparing him to Waqar Younis is quite laughable and on Ashwin lesser said the better.

The no.1 team in the world for five years now but continues to fail in SENA.
 
Ab Fan said:
16 in SA and 39 in England.

Whatever it is but he hasn't been a success in S.E.N as those numbers suggest- 31, 29 and 14. Avgs 20 in Windies but you can drop that off. Any average less than 35 is a failure as long as you don't have an inning like the one Dravid had in Adelaide 2003 and Kolkata '01.

He was brilliant in Australia which we all know.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the stats.

Interesting.

Statistics are important but can't take it as be all and end all.

Case in point, Rohit Sharma averages 31 in Aus and 40 in NZ.

You think his Aus performance is better than Pujara's efforts in SA 2018?

Average of 16 looks like he couldn't get bat on ball but reality is different. That was a series where surviving was a big deal. You could bat very well for 50 or 100 balls and still have minimal results.

Same token, Ashwin averages 30 in the last SENA cycle. This is including the horibble fielding fiasco in SA and an injury in Eng which kinda hurt his stats.

Purely statistically, this is a brilliant performance. You have to go as far as Indian quartet to get these figures.

BUT....for those of us who watched the games....the impact wasn't quite there (whatever be the reasons). He did play a pivotal role in Adelaide test but apart from that.

So we gotta take a mixture of both STATS and IMPACT and judge.

In that aspect, Pujara is anything but an HTB. Yes, he has been inconsistent but he is no home track bully this cycle.

He played pivotal roles in ALL of India's wins in this overseas cycle.

Joberg win - 50 (172) on that minefield
Eng match win - 80 odd
Aus series wins - centuries (won 2 games...could have been 3 if not for rain)
Southampton - Had India and Ashwin not been that useless we could have won that too.

So basically, in this SENA cycle, India has played 12 tests till now (not including NZ test).

Won 4
Lost 7
Draw 1

Pujara played the MAIN role in ALL of the 4 tests. Remove him and the victory column will go to 0.

That's IMPACT.

That's performance.

HTBs can't do that stuff.
 
Pujara also setup the win in Joberg 2013 and played a CRUCIAL knock for our Lord's 2014 win (got praise by Atherton for the way he blunted the ball on a total green mamba).

He even put India in a good position in Durban 2013 before we collapsed.

Every time we won anything in SENA or came close to it....Pujara had a hand in it.

Every...single...time.
 
Last edited:
SENA averages of so-called GOAT Asian team led by GOAT Asian captain:-

Kohli - 46
Pujara - 34
Rahane - 36
Mayank - 35
Vihari - 21
Shaw - 17
Saha - 13
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">India's struggles in Tests away from home - in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and England (since July 2011)<br><br>Played 36<br>Lost 25<br>Won 5<br>Drawn 6<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1340288305758400513?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">India's struggles in Tests away from home - in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and England (since July 2011)<br><br>Played 36<br>Lost 25<br>Won 5<br>Drawn 6<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1340288305758400513?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 19, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Can someone get Pakistan’s numbers in SENA from July 2011
 
Ted123 said:
SENA averages of so-called GOAT Asian team led by GOAT Asian captain:-

Kohli - 46
Pujara - 34
Rahane - 36
Mayank - 35
Vihari - 21
Shaw - 17
Saha - 13
Click to expand...

Shameful really. Test rankings are a joke. These batsmen were all part of top 10 at some point in the last 3 years.
 
Ted123 said:
I mean its amazing how great this team does at home but overseas continues to depend on one or two players.

Below are some players whose home away disparity questions their adaptability in test cricket.

Rohit Sharma
Cheteswar Pujara
Mayank Agarwal
Prithvi Shaw
Ravi Ashwin
Mohammad Shami
Ravindra Jadeja

That is 7. 7 match winners at home who can't buy runs and take wickets overseas. Home track bullies they are but test cricket is about adaptability in all conditions and not just bullying at home and becoming a walking wicket overseas.

Discuss!
Click to expand...

You wish you had some.
 
Ted123 said:
I mean its amazing how great this team does at home but overseas continues to depend on one or two players.

Below are some players whose home away disparity questions their adaptability in test cricket.

Rohit Sharma
Cheteswar Pujara
Mayank Agarwal
Prithvi Shaw
Ravi Ashwin
Mohammad Shami
Ravindra Jadeja

That is 7. 7 match winners at home who can't buy runs and take wickets overseas. Home track bullies they are but test cricket is about adaptability in all conditions and not just bullying at home and becoming a walking wicket overseas.

Discuss!
Click to expand...
Most of the cricketers these days are home track bullies.. But I'm afraid to say, Pakistan don't even have that luxury.
 
Prithvi Shaw and Agarwal failed as international cricketers.

Ashwin, Jadeja, Pujara, Rohit and Shami are all quality players.
 
Prithvi Shaw and Agarwal are not bullies anywhere.
Pujara can be called an HTB.

All the other players in the above list have proved enough in away conditions, none of them are htb
 
Better produce HTBs than HTCs

HTC for the uninitiated are home track cowards....get swept away by all comers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jeeteshssaxena said:
Prithvi Shaw and Agarwal are not bullies anywhere.
Pujara can be called an HTB.

All the other players in the above list have proved enough in away conditions, none of them are htb
Click to expand...
Pujara might be a HTB but he was one of the strong reasons for India winning back to back series in Australia.
 
giri26 said:
Pujara might be a HTB but he was one of the strong reasons for India winning back to back series in Australia.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree, he was also our best batsman on turners.

The overall record is the reason why I could agree with the HTB tag on him.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Prithvi Shaw and Agarwal are not bullies anywhere.
Pujara can be called an HTB.

All the other players in the above list have proved enough in away conditions, none of them are htb
Click to expand...
Didn’t Agarwal score heaps of runs at home vs SA in 2019? Seems like he didn’t get enough chances later on.
 
nish_mate said:
Better produce HTBs than HTCs

HTC for the uninitiated are home track cowards....get swept away by all comers.
Click to expand...


If I were an Indian fan, I would have piped down after my team bottled the most rigged World Cup in history (2023) and also has 0 WTCs in spite of fully controlling its schedule.

But but but the finals should have been in India because we have the most money
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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