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How good is Sadaf Hussain? Why isn't he getting selected?

Major said:
yar whether he is good or not, he deserves selection on merit
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No he does not. Anyone who collapses during a YoYo test, and only attains a score of 14 shouldnt be anywhere near first class cricket, never mind the national team.
 
[MENTION=34564]asfandyar[/MENTION]

have you seen him bowl though?

When I saw him he definitely wasnt someone you would go up in excitement and tip to be a world beater. Which is why I say dont expect him to be a world class option due to his domestic stats. He will be decent but certainly wont be running through sides on his own. And the wickets he got in FC (Ive seen some of his highlights from a few ssns ago) he depended on seam and line. Not all conditions, especially in modern day cricket will suit that.

I dont think he will be a sub 28 average bowler and a big improvement on what we have. Certainly wont win matches on his own So the hype is misplaced basically.

No where am I saying that he is a poor bowler.

Anyways, What do you base your optimism about him on apart from stats?
 
Slog said:
Wrong again.

Last FC match he played was: http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/engine/match/783407.html

This is a Silver League match. That is the 2nd tier of our frst class cricket. Seems like you dont know that
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Premature answer as usual. I was talking about List-A.

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Scorecards/770/770944.html

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Scorecards/770/770944.html

And even if you are talking about First Class cricket, silver league is not division 2. Division 2 is where Aamer debuted this season and played for Omar Associates. This is division one.

To further add to your knowledge, both Gold League and Silver League had an asterisk of ambiguity associated with them this season. Departmental cricket is considered to be of a higher quality than regional cricket, and the worst departments are better than the best regions in terms of quality. Yet both were divided and inculcated into different leagues. Sadaf joined ZTBL two seasons ago, and his performance has not changed even then. I am not saying that he will turn out to be a Mc Grath, and agree with your point that he can disappoint many of us. Just highlighting the fact that you are making a false presumption. I have closely watched Sadaf's stats, and he has outclassed his bowling peers in almost all matches. If your argument of green pitches is to be believed, the divide should not have been that great. The only way to find out if he is just another domestic bully: test him. If he fails in 15-20 matches, I will be his biggest critique, similar to how I have changed my point of view regarding Fawad over the past few months.
 
Slog said:
[MENTION=34564]asfandyar[/MENTION]

have you seen him bowl though?

When I saw him he definitely wasnt someone you would go up in excitement and tip to be a world beater. Which is why I say dont expect him to be a world class option due to his domestic stats. He will be decent but certainly wont be running through sides on his own. And the wickets he got in FC (Ive seen some of his highlights from a few ssns ago) he depended on seam and line. Not all conditions, especially in modern day cricket will suit that.

I dont think he will be a sub 28 average bowler and a big improvement on what we have. Certainly wont win matches on his own So the hype is misplaced basically.

No where am I saying that he is a poor bowler.

Anyways, What do you base your optimism about him on apart from stats?
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I saw him in one match in which he didn't perform well (2/60). Yet he was troubling the batsmen, and bowling some superb yorkers. Also, compare his record to Rahat's in the Gold Cup List A tournament.

P.S. I tend to overreact with my debates and tend to question people's intellect, but I don't mean any harm. Apologies if I tend to go overboard. (Doesn't mean I won't as that is part of who I am, so you will be hearing few more apologies from me before I get banned :-P )
 
asfandyar said:
Premature answer as usual. I was talking about List-A.

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Scorecards/770/770944.html

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Scorecards/770/770944.html

And even if you are talking about First Class cricket, silver league is not division 2. Division 2 is where Aamer debuted this season and played for Omar Associates. This is division one.

To further add to your knowledge, both Gold League and Silver League had an asterisk of ambiguity associated with them this season. Departmental cricket is considered to be of a higher quality than regional cricket, and the worst departments are better than the best regions in terms of quality. Yet both were divided and inculcated into different leagues. Sadaf joined ZTBL two seasons ago, and his performance has not changed even then. I am not saying that he will turn out to be a Mc Grath, and agree with your point that he can disappoint many of us. Just highlighting the fact that you are making a false presumption. I have closely watched Sadaf's stats, and he has outclassed his bowling peers in almost all matches. If your argument of green pitches is to be believed, the divide should not have been that great. The only way to find out if he is just another domestic bully: test him. If he fails in 15-20 matches, I will be his biggest critique, similar to how I have changed my point of view regarding Fawad over the past few months.
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Amir debuted in 4th tier of our domestic cricket.

Quaid Gold league - 1st tier
Quaid Silver league - 2nd
Patrons- Grade 1
Patrons - Grade II
 
And I am not overly optimistic about him, just want to counter the pessimism I have been through seeing Pakistani bowling off late. Perhaps this is a defense mechanism to counter my pessimism, that I am over-glorifying a trundler based on stats alone. But on merit, he deserves a call.
 
asfandyar said:
I saw him in one match in which he didn't perform well (2/60). Yet he was troubling the batsmen, and bowling some superb yorkers. Also, compare his record to Rahat's in the Gold Cup List A tournament.

P.S. I tend to overreact with my debates and tend to question people's intellect, but I don't mean any harm. Apologies if I tend to go overboard. (Doesn't mean I won't as that is part of who I am, so you will be hearing few more apologies from me before I get banned :-P )
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Haha np

Basically my philosophy now is to keep low expectations from any upcoming talent until they prove otherwise in a good sample of international cricket

Too many domestic performers in thelast 3-4 years have turned out to mediocre when they play int'l cricket
 
Slog said:
Amir debuted in 4th tier of our domestic cricket.

Quaid Gold league - 1st tier
Quaid Silver league - 2nd
Patrons- Grade 1
Patrons - Grade II
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well debut is wrong word.

returned
 
Its going to be interesting to know how Amir goes next season in FC

He seems to still have it
 
Slog said:
Amir debuted in 4th tier of our domestic cricket.

Quaid Gold league - 1st tier
Quaid Silver league - 2nd
Patrons- Grade 1
Patrons - Grade II
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I am not aware of this tier system, because during all my years covering Pakistani cricket, I have only heard about Grade I and Grade II. Grade II isn't counted in FC stats.

Even if we consider it 2nd tier, what about the previous season? He played departmental cricket then (GRADE I/TIER 1) and still excelled.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...t_wickets_career.html?id=8679;type=tournament

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...t_wickets_career.html?id=8681;type=tournament
 
Kakar said:
There is an argument broughtup that he doesn't bowl with kookabura ball. In the gold cup, kookabura balls were used. He was still the leading wicket taker by some distance. I'm not saying that he's a world beater. But he definitely deserves a chance because of his performance in domestic cricket. If he doesn't perform, discard him, but at least give him a chance.
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I don't see him playing Gold trophy:

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Events/Quaid-e-Azam_Trophy_Gold_League_2014-15/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

He Mostly played DIV 2.

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/E...Silver_League_2014-15/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Events/18/Quaid-e-Azam_Trophy_2012-13/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

In 2013/14 He played DIV1, but he was behind many bowlers (Imran Khan, Eshan Adil, Tabish, Samiullah Khan etc) had more wickets then him. Stats does not suggest that he set DIV 1 on fire when he played.

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Events/21/Presidents_Trophy_2013-14/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

If he is so good, why he still plays DIV 2 most of the time?? - At best he could be like Eshan Adil, Imran Khan type bowler, to me all this type of bowlers are rubbish and death sentence to fast bowling in the country if this is all we got.

Pakistan don't need 120k Tundlers... PCB is making a huge mistake by encouraging bowlers to bowl slow. These green and slow wickets is killing both bowlers and batsman. You need power athletes who can bowl fast, they just don't don't bowl fast but become a better athlete, their core is strong, they can run hard, strong shoulders mean they can hit big too. On top of that they can field... Look at top fast bowlers now Johnson, Strac, Styen, Wahab they all are good athlete and fielders... This is what we need to invest in if we want to dominate world cricket....


It is disappoint to see Pakistani fans are looking up to tundlers for future... I can see future of cricket similar to Hockey. We lost hockey because when hockey moved from grass to truf, athleticism was as important as skill... We had skill but weak athletes, the result is for every body to see...

When Waqar says, fitness is biggest problem, he is not wrong... Junked, Rahat, Sohail are not lacking in skill as much as fitness and athleticism, it is causing them loss of 7/10k clicks not to mention injuries and poor fielding... Sooner both fans and administration realize that better it is... Otherwise wait for a slow death to Cricket in Pakistan!!
 
yasir said:
I don't see him playing Gold trophy:

http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Events/Quaid-e-Azam_Trophy_Gold_League_2014-15/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

He Mostly played DIV 2.

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/E...Silver_League_2014-15/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Events/18/Quaid-e-Azam_Trophy_2012-13/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

In 2013/14 He played DIV1, but he was behind many bowlers (Imran Khan, Eshan Adil, Tabish, Samiullah Khan etc) had more wickets then him. Stats does not suggest that he set DIV 1 on fire when he played.

http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Events/21/Presidents_Trophy_2013-14/Bowling_by_Wickets.html

If he is so good, why he still plays DIV 2 most of the time?? - At best he could be like Eshan Adil, Imran Khan type bowler, to me all this type of bowlers are rubbish and death sentence to fast bowling in the country if this is all we got.

Pakistan don't need 120k Tundlers... PCB is making a huge mistake by encouraging bowlers to bowl slow. These green and slow wickets is killing both bowlers and batsman. You need power athletes who can bowl fast, they just don't don't bowl fast but become a better athlete, their core is strong, they can run hard, strong shoulders mean they can hit big too. On top of that they can field... Look at top fast bowlers now Johnson, Strac, Styen, Wahab they all are good athlete and fielders... This is what we need to invest in if we want to dominate world cricket....


It is disappoint to see Pakistani fans are looking up to tundlers for future... I can see future of cricket similar to Hockey. We lost hockey because when hockey moved from grass to truf, athleticism was as important as skill... We had skill but weak athletes, the result is for every body to see...

When Waqar says, fitness is biggest problem, he is not wrong... Junked, Rahat, Sohail are not lacking in skill as much as fitness and athleticism, it is causing them loss of 7/10k clicks not to mention injuries and poor fielding... Sooner both fans and administration realize that better it is... Otherwise wait for a slow death to Cricket in Pakistan!!
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Firstly, I am referring to Haier's President Gold one-day tournament which was played with Kookaburra balls towards the end of this January, in which he was the leading wicket taker.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engi...t_wickets_career.html?id=9857;type=tournament

Secondly, he is contracted to KRL. KRL are a good team. The reason they were playing in silver league in first class this season was because PCB decided to include both departments and regions in gold league. As a result, even some good departments had to play in silver league even though they were much better than the 6,7 regions playing in gold league.
And again, you have probably never seen him bowl and you are just assuming that he bowls at 120. He is not express, everybody agrees, but it is not possible to judge his speed accurately without speed guns. And if pace was everything, then Asif would never have played. And again, if he 'looks' like a bowler of same type as Imran Khan, Ehsan Adil etc. to you, then it is entirely your presumption. I am not saying he will set the world on fire, but the way he has consistently performed in first class for 4,5 seasons, he merits a selection. If he doesn't perform, discard him. That is the viewpoint of majority of PPers who support him. And it is only fair. You can't completely disregard domestic performances because of your own preferences. Again, one of the points raised against him that he can't swing Kookabura ball has been eliminated by his performance in Haier's gold cup. 21 wickets in 6 games at an average of 13, just don't come as gifts from batsmen.
 
Sadaf Hussain?

I would like to unravel the mystery known as Sadaf Hussain. I have not been watching large percentage of domestic games but from his bowling averages he looks like someone that should have been given a call up to the national team by now. Also nearly every other comment I read is asking for a call up for Sadaf Hussain. Is there a legitimate reason he's not being called up or is it PCB being PCB:shkhan?
 
^
And added to that most of his wickets have been cheap wickets in the silver league and have been aided by green mambas

If you want to go on stats alone, Hammad Azam should be our frontline bowler
 
^Both Sadaf and Hammad need to be backed, since we are short of Waqars and Wasims in the domestics at the moment. Name the bowlers who are ahead of them in the pecking order and we may have a case. I will go with a high-performing trundler over low-performing ones being picked any day of the week. Needless to say, it is futile to argue about the silver league with posters who are not familiar with the changes to the FC system in the past year.
 
Can't believe a generic, run of the mill military medium bowler is the hottest fast bowling prospect at the moment. :facepalm:
 
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I hope he doesn't play for a while yet so we can maintain the illusion that we have a world class bowler plying away in domestic cricket who is not being treated fairly and is being robbed of the chance to blow away opponents at int'l level
 
Missing the Point

We know how good he is in LA domestic cricket. He is currently the best there is, by some distance. We won't know how good he can be internationally until he is given a chance to play internationally. But since he is pretty much the best there is domestically, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give him that chance. To do so would mean that the PCB takes its own domestic structure seriously; that process matters. And this is the point that is being missed in this crystal ball-gazing jamboree that we indulge in. Structure and process. I have no clue as to whether Sadaf will be any good he is given a run in the national team, and I don't care. The question is whether he should be given a chance to play in some of the innumerable, often meaningless matches that the national ODI team plays every year with ever less success. A team whose would-be top strike bowlers all struggle to average below 30, and yes I'm also looking at you, fab-Wahab; whose second string, one Rahat Ali, will be lucky if he ever scales such heights; whose purported all-rounder backup, the inimitable Anwar Ali, boasts a Bradmanesque ave of 67. Does Rahat, even Anwar, nevertheless possess that mystical, elusive thing called "potential," of which Mamoon and others are so attached? The PCB must believe so with fervent conviction because they ignore a lot of evidence to the contrary, not least Rahat's godawful 35-something average in domestic LA cricket. But much like hope, potential springs eternal, and when you have hope, why listen to numbers? It clearly makes no sense to select in Rahat's place a bowler who averages 18; who just a few months ago wiped the floor with every bowler in the land; who did so on the same pitches, with the same ball, against the same opposition; because, for the 100th time, it does not matter one iota what is the state of domestic pitches in Pakistan; everybody who is up for selection has bowled on the same pitches; their performances and skills, or lack thereof, accordingly become amenable to that esoteric practice know as 'comparison.' There are some who would protest that averages deceive, that statistics mean nothing; who may rather trust in the eagle eyed assessment of one Mamoon, who in February 2015 on this board termed Yasir Ali a"mediocre leg spinner in every aspect." I raise this point not so as to argue that Mamoon will always be wrong in his predictions, but to make a very basic point of order. There is no certainty in prediction; that is why it is called prediction. But for lack of such certainty, it usually a good idea to try to see what the preponderance of available indicators tend to suggest, in particular those that have historically been found to correlate in some respect with eventual outcomes. Now it just so happens that a bowler's ability to take wickets is a pretty good indicator of their ability to take wickets. As domestic indicators go, its the best there is, in fact. And by this measure, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give Sadaf a try.
 
Overseas Signing said:
We know how good he is in LA domestic cricket. He is currently the best there is, by some distance. We won't know how good he can be internationally until he is given a chance to play internationally. But since he is pretty much the best there is domestically, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give him that chance. To do so would mean that the PCB takes its own domestic structure seriously; that process matters. And this is the point that is being missed in this crystal ball-gazing jamboree that we indulge in. Structure and process. I have no clue as to whether Sadaf will be any good he is given a run in the national team, and I don't care. The question is whether he should be given a chance to play in some of the innumerable, often meaningless matches that the national ODI team plays every year with ever less success. A team whose would-be top strike bowlers all struggle to average below 30, and yes I'm also looking at you, fab-Wahab; whose second string, one Rahat Ali, will be lucky if he ever scales such heights; whose purported all-rounder backup, the inimitable Anwar Ali, boasts a Bradmanesque ave of 67. Does Rahat, even Anwar, nevertheless possess that mystical, elusive thing called "potential," of which Mamoon and others are so attached? The PCB must believe so with fervent conviction because they ignore a lot of evidence to the contrary, not least Rahat's godawful 35-something average in domestic LA cricket. But much like hope, potential springs eternal, and when you have hope, why listen to numbers? It clearly makes no sense to select in Rahat's place a bowler who averages 18; who just a few months ago wiped the floor with every bowler in the land; who did so on the same pitches, with the same ball, against the same opposition; because, for the 100th time, it does not matter one iota what is the state of domestic pitches in Pakistan; everybody who is up for selection has bowled on the same pitches; their performances and skills, or lack thereof, accordingly become amenable to that esoteric practice know as 'comparison.' There are some who would protest that averages deceive, that statistics mean nothing; who may rather trust in the eagle eyed assessment of one Mamoon, who in February 2015 on this board termed Yasir Ali a"mediocre leg spinner in every aspect." I raise this point not so as to argue that Mamoon will always be wrong in his predictions, but to make a very basic point of order. There is no certainty in prediction; that is why it is called prediction. But for lack of such certainty, it usually a good idea to try to see what the preponderance of available indicators tend to suggest, in particular those that have historically been found to correlate in some respect with eventual outcomes. Now it just so happens that a bowler's ability to take wickets is a pretty good indicator of their ability to take wickets. As domestic indicators go, its the best there is, in fact. And by this measure, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give Sadaf a try.
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Well said, potw
 
Overseas Signing said:
We know how good he is in LA domestic cricket. He is currently the best there is, by some distance. We won't know how good he can be internationally until he is given a chance to play internationally. But since he is pretty much the best there is domestically, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give him that chance. To do so would mean that the PCB takes its own domestic structure seriously; that process matters. And this is the point that is being missed in this crystal ball-gazing jamboree that we indulge in. Structure and process. I have no clue as to whether Sadaf will be any good he is given a run in the national team, and I don't care. The question is whether he should be given a chance to play in some of the innumerable, often meaningless matches that the national ODI team plays every year with ever less success. A team whose would-be top strike bowlers all struggle to average below 30, and yes I'm also looking at you, fab-Wahab; whose second string, one Rahat Ali, will be lucky if he ever scales such heights; whose purported all-rounder backup, the inimitable Anwar Ali, boasts a Bradmanesque ave of 67. Does Rahat, even Anwar, nevertheless possess that mystical, elusive thing called "potential," of which Mamoon and others are so attached? The PCB must believe so with fervent conviction because they ignore a lot of evidence to the contrary, not least Rahat's godawful 35-something average in domestic LA cricket. But much like hope, potential springs eternal, and when you have hope, why listen to numbers? It clearly makes no sense to select in Rahat's place a bowler who averages 18; who just a few months ago wiped the floor with every bowler in the land; who did so on the same pitches, with the same ball, against the same opposition; because, for the 100th time, it does not matter one iota what is the state of domestic pitches in Pakistan; everybody who is up for selection has bowled on the same pitches; their performances and skills, or lack thereof, accordingly become amenable to that esoteric practice know as 'comparison.' There are some who would protest that averages deceive, that statistics mean nothing; who may rather trust in the eagle eyed assessment of one Mamoon, who in February 2015 on this board termed Yasir Ali a"mediocre leg spinner in every aspect." I raise this point not so as to argue that Mamoon will always be wrong in his predictions, but to make a very basic point of order. There is no certainty in prediction; that is why it is called prediction. But for lack of such certainty, it usually a good idea to try to see what the preponderance of available indicators tend to suggest, in particular those that have historically been found to correlate in some respect with eventual outcomes. Now it just so happens that a bowler's ability to take wickets is a pretty good indicator of their ability to take wickets. As domestic indicators go, its the best there is, in fact. And by this measure, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give Sadaf a try.
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Interesting 'début' post. Something tells me you aren't new around here... :13:
 
Overseas Signing said:
We know how good he is in LA domestic cricket. He is currently the best there is, by some distance. We won't know how good he can be internationally until he is given a chance to play internationally. But since he is pretty much the best there is domestically, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give him that chance. To do so would mean that the PCB takes its own domestic structure seriously; that process matters. And this is the point that is being missed in this crystal ball-gazing jamboree that we indulge in. Structure and process. I have no clue as to whether Sadaf will be any good he is given a run in the national team, and I don't care. The question is whether he should be given a chance to play in some of the innumerable, often meaningless matches that the national ODI team plays every year with ever less success. A team whose would-be top strike bowlers all struggle to average below 30, and yes I'm also looking at you, fab-Wahab; whose second string, one Rahat Ali, will be lucky if he ever scales such heights; whose purported all-rounder backup, the inimitable Anwar Ali, boasts a Bradmanesque ave of 67. Does Rahat, even Anwar, nevertheless possess that mystical, elusive thing called "potential," of which Mamoon and others are so attached? The PCB must believe so with fervent conviction because they ignore a lot of evidence to the contrary, not least Rahat's godawful 35-something average in domestic LA cricket. But much like hope, potential springs eternal, and when you have hope, why listen to numbers? It clearly makes no sense to select in Rahat's place a bowler who averages 18; who just a few months ago wiped the floor with every bowler in the land; who did so on the same pitches, with the same ball, against the same opposition; because, for the 100th time, it does not matter one iota what is the state of domestic pitches in Pakistan; everybody who is up for selection has bowled on the same pitches; their performances and skills, or lack thereof, accordingly become amenable to that esoteric practice know as 'comparison.' There are some who would protest that averages deceive, that statistics mean nothing; who may rather trust in the eagle eyed assessment of one Mamoon, who in February 2015 on this board termed Yasir Ali a"mediocre leg spinner in every aspect." I raise this point not so as to argue that Mamoon will always be wrong in his predictions, but to make a very basic point of order. There is no certainty in prediction; that is why it is called prediction. But for lack of such certainty, it usually a good idea to try to see what the preponderance of available indicators tend to suggest, in particular those that have historically been found to correlate in some respect with eventual outcomes. Now it just so happens that a bowler's ability to take wickets is a pretty good indicator of their ability to take wickets. As domestic indicators go, its the best there is, in fact. And by this measure, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give Sadaf a try.
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Pretty much this. POTW really.
 
Overseas Signing said:
We know how good he is in LA domestic cricket. He is currently the best there is, by some distance. We won't know how good he can be internationally until he is given a chance to play internationally. But since he is pretty much the best there is domestically, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give him that chance. To do so would mean that the PCB takes its own domestic structure seriously; that process matters. And this is the point that is being missed in this crystal ball-gazing jamboree that we indulge in. Structure and process. I have no clue as to whether Sadaf will be any good he is given a run in the national team, and I don't care. The question is whether he should be given a chance to play in some of the innumerable, often meaningless matches that the national ODI team plays every year with ever less success. A team whose would-be top strike bowlers all struggle to average below 30, and yes I'm also looking at you, fab-Wahab; whose second string, one Rahat Ali, will be lucky if he ever scales such heights; whose purported all-rounder backup, the inimitable Anwar Ali, boasts a Bradmanesque ave of 67. Does Rahat, even Anwar, nevertheless possess that mystical, elusive thing called "potential," of which Mamoon and others are so attached? The PCB must believe so with fervent conviction because they ignore a lot of evidence to the contrary, not least Rahat's godawful 35-something average in domestic LA cricket. But much like hope, potential springs eternal, and when you have hope, why listen to numbers? It clearly makes no sense to select in Rahat's place a bowler who averages 18; who just a few months ago wiped the floor with every bowler in the land; who did so on the same pitches, with the same ball, against the same opposition; because, for the 100th time, it does not matter one iota what is the state of domestic pitches in Pakistan; everybody who is up for selection has bowled on the same pitches; their performances and skills, or lack thereof, accordingly become amenable to that esoteric practice know as 'comparison.' There are some who would protest that averages deceive, that statistics mean nothing; who may rather trust in the eagle eyed assessment of one Mamoon, who in February 2015 on this board termed Yasir Ali a"mediocre leg spinner in every aspect." I raise this point not so as to argue that Mamoon will always be wrong in his predictions, but to make a very basic point of order. There is no certainty in prediction; that is why it is called prediction. But for lack of such certainty, it usually a good idea to try to see what the preponderance of available indicators tend to suggest, in particular those that have historically been found to correlate in some respect with eventual outcomes. Now it just so happens that a bowler's ability to take wickets is a pretty good indicator of their ability to take wickets. As domestic indicators go, its the best there is, in fact. And by this measure, it clearly makes no sense whatsoever to give Sadaf a try.
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for a poster on his 3rd post you sure know a lot about what particular posters post going back several months.

also its Yasir Shah
 
Hammad averages 18 in domestic too and he is nothing more than a club level bowler who will be smashed into smithereens by any half decent international batsman worth his salt. Which is why I dont have much hopes on Sadaf but yeah he has done enough and on merit he deserves his chance now

Though sometimes you do back potential over domestic performance btw and rightly so. Azhar Ali with an average in low 30s in FC cricket had no case of being in the national team in 2010 but we played him and backed him and he did well.

But as I said he has done great and deserves his chance now. We didnt try Aizaz Cheema for the same reason when he was in his 20s and in his peak despite taking a bucketload of wickets every season because the chief selector of the time Salahuddin Sallu sahab didnt think he had it in him. He finally made his debut at the age of 31 or sth and despite being a shadow of what he would have been in his mid 20s he did OK I think
 
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Slog said:
for a poster on his 3rd post you sure know a lot about what particular posters post going back several months.

also its Yasir Shah
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Tbh people lurk before they actually join PP I for one did that too so knew many posters and posts of people before actually joining.

And yeah Aizaz Cheema did decently just now checked he averages 25 with the ball in LOI's.
 
He is not fit enough is what the chief selector said. The next time there's a selection, hopefully he can show his fitness then.
 
Slog said:
Hammad averages 18 in domestic too and he is nothing more than a club level bowler who will be smashed into smithereens by any half decent international batsman worth his salt. Which is why I dont have much hopes on Sadaf but yeah he has done enough and on merit he deserves his chance now

Though sometimes you do back potential over domestic performance btw and rightly so. Azhar Ali with an average in low 30s in FC cricket had no case of being in the national team in 2010 but we played him and backed him and he did well.

But as I said he has done great and deserves his chance now. We didnt try Aizaz Cheema for the same reason when he was in his 20s and in his peak despite taking a bucketload of wickets every season because the chief selector of the time Salahuddin Sallu sahab didnt think he had it in him. He finally made his debut at the age of 31 or sth and despite being a shadow of what he would have been in his mid 20s he did OK I think
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It is wrong to disregard all performing players because one performing player is not international material.
 
So Sadaf hussain is fit again after missing 2 FC games.

He took the wicket of Asad Shafique today.
 
Hbl are 20-3 in there second innings and uptil now mohammad Abbass has taken 8 wickets while sadaf hussain has taken 5 wickets in this match.

In both the innings Sadaf hussain has got the wicket of Asad Shafique. Asad got Lbw by Sadaf in the second innings.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Hbl are 20-3 in there second innings and uptil now mohammad Abbass has taken 8 wickets while sadaf hussain has taken 5 wickets in this match.

In both the innings Sadaf hussain has got the wicket of Asad Shafique. Asad got Lbw by Sadaf in the second innings.
Click to expand...

Thats good. Asad is a compact player, dismissing him on Pakistani roads means the guy has got something in him
 
I have repeated this thing many times but for you I shall repeat it one more time.


After not getting a game on the tour of West indies the most favourable tour for selection for Sadaf were South Africa and Zimbanwe tours. As a selector I would have wanted sadaf to debut not in UAE but in South Africa or Zimbabwe and than if he performed well which he possibly would have than would have selected him for srilanka test tour and than UAE. When he would have been among the wickets in south Africa Zimbabwe and Srilanka than him not taking many wickets would have been taken not much negatively but with a perspective of wickets being flat and non supportive for pacers.

Now what happened in Sadaf's case ?

In 2011-2012 season he was amongst top wicket takers and everyone was seeing him as a prospect for the tour of South Africa in january 2013 and he was in selectors radar.

The domestic cricket structure changed before the 2012-2013 season with regions playing quaid e azam trophy and Departments playing President's trophy.

Now every reader should read carefully.

Sadaf gets approached by 2 departments to play President's trophy and he says No to them saying that I want to focus on playing regional cricket for rawalpindi. By than he had taken 148 Fc wickets.


It was a disastrous choice made by Sadaf hussain not only financially but professionally aswell.

He knew that departmental cricket is more competitive and has more value. He knew that President trophy will start first and will finish before pakistan squad for SA will be announced. He knew that by the time pakistan squad for SA will be announced he would have played only 2 FC games for rawalpindi whereas those bowlers playing Departmental cricket would have played 8 to 10 Fc games by that time.

When Pakistan team for SA got announced by than Sadaf hussain had played 2 FC games for rawalpindi and had taken 15 wickets whereas Ehsan Adil had played 10 Fc games and had taken 54 wickets with Imran Khan 9 matches 50 , Aizaz Cheema 9 matches 46 , Tanveer Ahmed 8 matches 38 , Rahat Ali 7 matches 28 and Mohammad 7 matches Irfan 28 wickets.

Before these 2 FC games sadaf had last played domestic cricket 6 months ago in fifty overs tournament.


Now which selection committee or selectors would pick a test squad by ignoring 6 fast bowlers who have played 8+ Fc matches in current season and pick the one wo has just played 2 FC matches ?

At that time only Tanvir Ahmed had played test cricket (2 tests) while Aizaz , Rahat , Ehsan , Imran , Irfan had not played any Int cricket and had never been picked for Pakistan.

Because Sadaf had gone to West Indies and had been selected for Pakistan previously so he would have been preferred by selectors ahead of Ehsan , Imran , Rahat , Irfan and Aizaz had he been amongst top wicket takers which he would have had he played for department side in President's trophy.

Selectors picked Irfan , Ehsan & Rahat 3 youngsters for SA tour along with Tanveer. Rahat & Irfan preferred over Aizaz and Imran because of having more pace and Ehsan was highest wicket taker amongst all pacers.

When Irfan , Rahat , Ehsan , Aizaz , Tanveer , Imran opted for departmental cricket ahead of their regions than why Sadaf rejected departmental cricket and opted for Regional cricket ? Before thay season Ehsan and Irfan had not played any FC cricket and had 0 wickets. Rahay had 40 whereas Sadaf had 148 Fc wickets.

From there careers of Ehsan and Rahat Begun ahead of Sadaf Hussain. That was a terrible blunder by Sadaf.

Than Sadaf plays 5 Fc games for Rawalpindi and gets 25 wickets and misses four games for rawalpindi because of getting injured. Hence he was at number 13 in top wickets takers list of QEA TROPHY and around 20 bowlers were ahead of him in President's trophy. So 33 bowlers ahead of him that season so how would the selectors have considered him for next test tour ?


If it was Sabih Azhar coach of Rawalpindi who asked Sadaf to reject departmental cricket offer than Sadaf should have got sense himself to know what he should decide and should have accepted department cricket offer because with 148 Fc wickets at 17 he would have been in playing eleven of any departmental team and would not have been benched. And since president trophy started first so Sadaf would not have had 7 months lay off and had he not got unfit I have no doubts at all that he would have taken more wickets than Ehsan Adil and would have gone to SA with Irfan or Ehsan missing out on selection.

I am Sadaf's fan but if I am selector I won't give Sadaf hussain test debut on Abu Dhabi flat slow deck (Phatta) where if he doesn't get more than 2 wickets than he will be dropped and made 1 test wonder like ayub Dogar, Irfan fazil , Riaz Afridi, Farhan Adil , Bazid Khan and Yasir Ali.
 
Taller than Abbas... Same pace... Same age.... Better FC average and FAR more wickets....

Could he be actually good if Abbas is??
 
JoniInsafian said:
Taller than Abbas... Same pace... Same age.... Better FC average and FAR more wickets....

Could he be actually good if Abbas is??
Click to expand...

i was just thinking the same thing yesterday

if abbas can succeed why not sadaf when sadaf was so much better
 
Ellipsism said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KjCPjxeR6e8

The amount of hype he gets you'd think he'd a half decent bowler, but he makes Wahab look accurate.
Click to expand...

Ahson8 said:
Pace seems quite low as well.
Click to expand...

Finisher said:
Good bounce and movement.
Click to expand...


Actually this is quite funny but we all learn with age.


I should post video of Ajay Jadega manhandling a gully mohalla bowler Waqar Younis (who had fluke best ever teak peak in last 40 years) to prove how rubbish Waqar Younis was.


Quite immature from you but I am not surprised.


Sadaf has many issues to sort these days but your attempt is bizarre and it has failed.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Actually this is quite funny but we all learn with age.


I should post video of Ajay Jadega manhandling a gully mohalla bowler Waqar Younis (who had fluke best ever teak peak in last 40 years) to prove how rubbish Waqar Younis was.


Quite immature from you but I am not surprised.


Sadaf has many issues to sort these days but your attempt is bizarre and it has failed.
Click to expand...

Not saying he is rubbish, but his pace does look down in this video. Would like to see more of him before making a proper judgment.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Actually this is quite funny but we all learn with age.


I should post video of Ajay Jadega manhandling a gully mohalla bowler Waqar Younis (who had fluke best ever teak peak in last 40 years) to prove how rubbish Waqar Younis was.


Quite immature from you but I am not surprised.


Sadaf has many issues to sort these days but your attempt is bizarre and it has failed.
Click to expand...
My attempt at what? Exposing Sadaf?

What are you trying to say? That this was an off day for Sadaf?
 
Last edited:
Ahson8 said:
Not saying he is rubbish, but his pace does look down in this video. Would like to see more of him before making a proper judgment.
Click to expand...


He needs to get rid of his almost pot belly he is carrying these days to again be bowling 128 - 139 kph He was bowling in 2015. Somebody who is 6'4 gets decent bounce and swing and is accurate does not need extra pace. McGrath etc are prime examples.


Plus he needs to strengthen his legs and stay upright. He is collapsing and falling to his right these days.


Needa to focus on his diet too and needs to go Hasan Ali's way wrt Keto diet & hard training.


Abass is first Pak bowler in last 17 years to get 15 odd Test wickets in his debut Test series and what is his pace ? Medium fast ie slightly slower than what Sadaf was in 2015.


Every case isn't same. One or few videos when one is poor wrt fitness does not show the complete story.


Sadaf is only Pak domestic bowler of last 10 years who has had excellent rather outstanding List A+ Fc numbers and it's no fluke.


At age 27 he needs to do the stuff Chris Woakes did at similar age. From Pak he should take motivation from Abass or Hasan or both otherwise He will never play for Pakistan.
 
Ellipsism said:
My attempt at what? Exposing Sadaf?

What are you trying to say? That this was an off day for Sadaf?
Click to expand...


Read my last post and read my posts about Sadaf in multiple threads to have a clear perspective.


Abass has given shutup call to all those who want to murder medium fast pace bowlers because they are not " Phaast "


I wish that Abass follows Hasan's diet plan & training off season so that he improves his energy levels and fitness inorder to give You people sleepless nights by uprooting wickets even on dead UAE wickets like medium fast JK did from 2010 to 2013.


If you and people like you were CS than McGrath, Asif, Headlee, Pollock, Philander would have never played a single International match because they were not " Phaast "


You're young so you will learn these subtelties with time.
 
2-3 years ago, he was genuinely good when he was at his peak around 30 years of age. Now he's past it. Fitness is down. Pace is down. He's falling apart in his follow through. A very ugly action. I remember he used to have a different action. Possibly PCB wasted him but now there's nothing that can be done.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
He needs to get rid of his almost pot belly he is carrying these days to again be bowling 128 - 139 kph He was bowling in 2015. Somebody who is 6'4 gets decent bounce and swing and is accurate does not need extra pace. McGrath etc are prime examples.


Plus he needs to strengthen his legs and stay upright. He is collapsing and falling to his right these days.


Needa to focus on his diet too and needs to go Hasan Ali's way wrt Keto diet & hard training.


Abass is first Pak bowler in last 17 years to get 15 odd Test wickets in his debut Test series and what is his pace ? Medium fast ie slightly slower than what Sadaf was in 2015.


Every case isn't same. One or few videos when one is poor wrt fitness does not show the complete story.


Sadaf is only Pak domestic bowler of last 10 years who has had excellent rather outstanding List A+ Fc numbers and it's no fluke.


At age 27 he needs to do the stuff Chris Woakes did at similar age. From Pak he should take motivation from Abass or Hasan or both otherwise He will never play for Pakistan.
Click to expand...

Yes I noticed that he was looking overweight (for an athlete) in this video as well. He definitely needs to work on fitness if he wants to be selected.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Read my last post and read my posts about Sadaf in multiple threads to have a clear perspective.


Abass has given shutup call to all those who want to murder medium fast pace bowlers because they are not " Phaast "


I wish that Abass follows Hasan's diet plan & training off season so that he improves his energy levels and fitness inorder to give You people sleepless nights by uprooting wickets even on dead UAE wickets like medium fast JK did from 2010 to 2013.


If you and people like you were CS than McGrath, Asif, Headlee, Pollock, Philander would have never played a single International match because they were not " Phaast "


You're young so you will learn these subtelties with time.
Click to expand...
Mickey, Azhar and the other respective members of the coaching staff have seen Sadaf; if he were some supreme wicket taking force they would have asked for him to be selected, if they saw some potential in him they would have asked for him to be monitored at the NCA, surely if he were any good we would have seen him in a PSL team or in and around the national setup.

On a different note what in the world are these domestic coaches doing? Sadaf has been on the domestic scene for 5-7 years and yet they have still failed to prevent him from collapsing.

In the case of Abbas his real test is yet to come, that being bowling with the kookaburra on unresponsive pitches.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Actually this is quite funny but we all learn with age.


I should post video of Ajay Jadega manhandling a gully mohalla bowler Waqar Younis (who had fluke best ever teak peak in last 40 years) to prove how rubbish Waqar Younis was.


Quite immature from you but I am not surprised.


Sadaf has many issues to sort these days but your attempt is bizarre and it has failed.
Click to expand...

I hate ptv sports picture quality, the pitch looks same colour as the ball.
My comment was he's getting good bounce and movement. Nothing negative with that altho it is quite clear he isn't fit in this video, Also falling a lot to the right.
 
Ellipsism said:
Mickey, Azhar and the other respective members of the coaching staff have seen Sadaf; if he were some supreme wicket taking force they would have asked for him to be selected, if they saw some potential in him they would have asked for him to be monitored at the NCA, surely if he were any good we would have seen him in a PSL team or in and around the national setup.

On a different note what in the world are these domestic coaches doing? Sadaf has been on the domestic scene for 5-7 years and yet they have still failed to prevent him from collapsing.

In the case of Abbas his real test is yet to come, that being bowling with the kookaburra on unresponsive pitches.
Click to expand...



I totally totally disagree with you.


Abass was not rated by anybody. Not at all. You and people lile you ridiculed him when he played live matches last year with white ball (List A) his worst format.


Abass crashed the door of selectors to force them to select him by topping FC charts for 2 consecutive years. Something Sadaf has never been able to do in departmental FC Cricket.


This is Pakistan Cricket & I know quiet well. Guys like Tanveer & Aizaz were picked when they were 29 and 32 that too officially but they were breathing their last peak year of career. Both did quite well in first two series and than they were gone. This is our History so not surprising at all.


And don't try to fool me or others with ball being used or pitches in West Indies. Educate me the Average & Strike Rate of all 6-7 pacers who played tests in West Indies for both series so that I know who stood where.


You are a Cricket Fan who thrives on the Speed shown by Speed Gun or the caneras and that is it. Period.


I also love speed/pace and have dedicated my precious time to highlight those with good speed and pacers who excite you with their speeds in the air or pace of the wicket. But it has not been Speed bla bla, pace bla bla bla. Gaga only.
 
Finisher said:
I hate ptv sports picture quality, the pitch looks same colour as the ball.
My comment was he's getting good bounce and movement. Nothing negative with that altho it is quite clear he isn't fit in this video, Also falling a lot to the right.
Click to expand...


He needs to push himself and do lots of hard work. If he does he will bounce back. If he doesn't than he will be history.

We have alot of upcoming pacers.
 
ExpressPacer said:
2-3 years ago, he was genuinely good when he was at his peak around 30 years of age. Now he's past it. Fitness is down. Pace is down. He's falling apart in his follow through. A very ugly action. I remember he used to have a different action. Possibly PCB wasted him but now there's nothing that can be done.
Click to expand...


So what is his current real age ? And your source ?
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
I totally totally disagree with you.


Abass was not rated by anybody. Not at all. You and people lile you ridiculed him when he played live matches last year with white ball (List A) his worst format.


Abass crashed the door of selectors to force them to select him by topping FC charts for 2 consecutive years. Something Sadaf has never been able to do in departmental FC Cricket.


This is Pakistan Cricket & I know quiet well. Guys like Tanveer & Aizaz were picked when they were 29 and 32 that too officially but they were breathing their last peak year of career. Both did quite well in first two series and than they were gone. This is our History so not surprising at all.


And don't try to fool me or others with ball being used or pitches in West Indies. Educate me the Average & Strike Rate of all 6-7 pacers who played tests in West Indies for both series so that I know who stood where.


You are a Cricket Fan who thrives on the Speed shown by Speed Gun or the caneras and that is it. Period.


I also love speed/pace and have dedicated my precious time to highlight those with good speed and pacers who excite you with their speeds in the air or pace of the wicket. But it has not been Speed bla bla, pace bla bla bla. Gaga only.
Click to expand...
I am happy that Abbas has proven me wrong, thus far.

You have failed to answer the premise of my post, and that is if Sadaf were any good why didn't Micky ask for his inclusion or for him to be monitored.

If I am a fan who supposedly 'thrives' on speed why do I rate Hazlewood as the best test bowler in the world, why do I rate Philander? As far as I know both hardly exceed 140 km/h.

I don't know where Abbas came into this discussion.
 
Ellipsism said:
I am happy that Abbas has proven me wrong, thus far.

You have failed to answer the premise of my post, and that is if Sadaf were any good why didn't Micky ask for his inclusion or for him to be monitored.

If I am a fan who supposedly 'thrives' on speed why do I rate Hazlewood as the best test bowler in the world, why do I rate Philander? As far as I know both hardly exceed 140 km/h.

I don't know where Abbas came into this discussion.
Click to expand...


Your Post had nothing much in it for me to answer.


If I was in Mickey's boots in 2017 with Current Sadaf infront of me than I would have treated him in the same way as Mickey did.


Hazlewood is a yard quicker than Sadaf ever was in (2014-2015) and he is couple of yards quicker than Abass (2017). Hazlewood is faster version of Mcgrath. He is Fast medium.
 
ExpressPacer said:
I can't force you to believe me.
Click to expand...


I did not ask you to do that.


We call people corrupt without the Courts declaring them Convict of Corruption, without us presenting personal secret documents of our claims as evidence.


So nothing surprising.


#National Values
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Your Post had nothing much in it for me to answer.


If I was in Mickey's boots in 2017 with Current Sadaf infront of me than I would have treated him in the same way as Mickey did.


Hazlewood is a yard quicker than Sadaf ever was in (2014-2015) and he is couple of yards quicker than Abass (2017). Hazlewood is faster version of Mcgrath. He is Fast medium.
Click to expand...
So, essentislly we move on from Sadaf.
 
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