How good was Ramiz Raja?

[talha3]

I think that slow century v Windies is one of the reasons people dislike Raja. Overall he appears, apart from that innings, to have been a fair-enough opener in LOIs.

IMHO Pakistan openers are as follows

Rank 1) Saeed Anwar, Saeed Ahmed (nobody ever mentions this fantastic batsman), Hanif Mohammad, Majid Khan

Rank 2) Aamer Sohail, Mudassar Nazar, Sadiq Mohammad, Shoaib Mohammad, Mohsin Khan

Rank 3) Taufeeq Umar, Ramiz Raja, Salman Butt, Imran Nazir, Yasir Hameed, Saleem Elahi (bear in mind I'm also counting LOIs): useful in one format and poor in another.

The question is, does Hafeez make category 2 or 3? Or TBC?

 

[Zaz]

This summed up how he sleptwalked when he played - makes Inzy look wide awake. So amazing when he criticises Inzy and Yousuf for example.

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Terrible! Talk about giving your wkt away!

If a player did something like that today hed be accused of fixing!!

 

[1137moiz]

The question is, does Hafeez make category 2 or 3? Or TBC?

TBC. He certainly has the potential to become a Category 2

 

[W63L35]

Pakistani openers in Tests and ODIs ... sorted by # of runs and averages;

 

[PTI tsunami]

Rameez was brill of the legs but crap on the offside also he was probably the worst fielder ever

 

[ElRaja]

inzi should have opened more in odis.

 

[MenInG]

Happy Birthday to him - 58 years today.

 

[MenInG]

59 years old today.

Happy Birthday to Rambo

 

[BouncerGuy]

Happy Birthday, Rambo.... 63 years old now and still looking fresh as ever,

 

[Rana]

My instincts tell me he was as good as Babar Azam

 

[IMMY69]

My instincts tell me he was as good as Babar Azam

actually more like Rizwan, very much a leg sided player... Sweet timing on the leg side, good (but compulsive) puller/hooker of the ball, and not much of an offside game

 

[RexRex]

Congrats to Ramiz Raja on his 63rd birthday. He was fun to listen to in recent Ind-Eng series.

 

[zahid01]

actually more like Rizwan, very much a leg sided player... Sweet timing on the leg side, good (but compulsive) puller/hooker of the ball, and not much of an offside game

I remember watching him againt England in a one day match at Edgbaston England had a very pacey Welsh bowler i can't remember the name he got couple of early wickets but ramiz took him on and hooked him for couple of massive sixes he wasn't a bad player at all.

 

[IMMY69]

I remember watching him againt England in a one day match at Edgbaston England had a very pacey Welsh bowler i can't remember the name he got couple of early wickets but ramiz took him on and hooked him for couple of massive sixes he wasn't a bad player at all.

Greg Thomas?

He was a very good hooker of the ball, but occasionally got carried away with it..
Certainly not a bad player at all.. If he had. better offside game then could have been one of the better openers we have produced.

 

[Technics 1210]

He wasn’t that great at all, just lived off the 92 WC win, and that final catch, for the rest of his career on & off the field.

No idea why he is refered to as Rambo - an insult on Stallone.

 

[IMMY69]

He wasn’t that great at all, just lived off the 92 WC win, and that final catch, for the rest of his career on & off the field.

No idea why he is refered to as Rambo - an insult on Stallone.

Just checked his record and yes pretty pathetic across the board (odi's and tests)...
Only decent against the Kiwis and India (in ODI's).

Like I've said, he was extremely limited through the offside... Still remember that hundred he scored against he Windies in the 1992 World Cup when Miandad was literally coaching on how to hit the ball through the offside...

 

[The_KING]

Bang average player.

 

[TheSultan]

anyone remember at least 2 of his stumps being uprooted by devon malcolm in the 92 tour?

Was lovely! What a sight for a fast bowler. I normally would get quite upset with a pak batsman getting out, but it was such a rubbish shot and already I was getting irate with his poor batting aside from that one flick shot

 

[sweep_shot]

I never got to see him live.

But, based on highlights and his records, I think he was an okay batter.

 

[Hitman]

Remember an old poster with the ID Momo creating a thread asking posters who is the most undeserving talent to have played cricket. His pick was Rameez. His argument was that while even less talented players got to play international cricket, none of them played even half the matches Rameez got to play with his talent.

I agreed with him then, I agree with him now.​

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mediocre and incredibly boring to watch

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ramiz's brother Wasim Raja was the real superstar. Maybe one of Pakistan's cricket's first real superstars, and so ahead of his time. Went to West Indies in 1977 and bashed a Windies attack featuring the likes of Garner, Croft, Roberts all over the place on fast, bouncy wickets. He made hitting sixes cool back when it was still considered reckless bravado.

Ramiz is nothing more than the black sheep of that family. The fact that he is more famous than Wasim just speaks to how empty and meaningless fame really is.

 

[sweep_shot]

Ramiz's brother Wasim Raja was the real superstar. Maybe one of Pakistan's cricket's first real superstars, and so ahead of his time. Went to West Indies in 1977 and bashed a Windies attack featuring the likes of Garner, Croft, Roberts all over the place on fast, bouncy wickets. He made hitting sixes cool back when it was still considered reckless bravado.

Ramiz is nothing more than the black sheep of that family. The fact that he is more famous than Wasim just speaks to how empty and meaningless fame really is.

I didn't know Rameez was Wasim Raja's brother.

Wasim Raja was definitely a legend.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Ramiz's brother Wasim Raja was the real superstar. Maybe one of Pakistan's cricket's first real superstars, and so ahead of his time. Went to West Indies in 1977 and bashed a Windies attack featuring the likes of Garner, Croft, Roberts all over the place on fast, bouncy wickets. He made hitting sixes cool back when it was still considered reckless bravado.

Ramiz is nothing more than the black sheep of that family. The fact that he is more famous than Wasim just speaks to how empty and meaningless fame really is.

Spot on — I saw Wasim Raja play and he was a thrilling, swashbuckling player.
Rameez was pretty average tbh.
His claim to fame seems to be predominantly because he is vaguely competent at English.

 

[nish_mate]

Remember an old poster with the ID Momo creating a thread asking posters who is the most undeserving talent to have played cricket. His pick was Rameez. His argument was that while even less talented players got to play international cricket, none of them played even half the matches Rameez got to play with his talent.

I agreed with him then, I agree with him now.​

Good ole Momo Saab, one of the legends of PP

 

[topspin]

What MoYo said:

 

[Rana]

What MoYo said:

This was so embarrassing for Ramiz

Yousuf was on smoke here!

 

[topspin]

This was so embarrassing for Ramiz

Yousuf was on smoke here!

Lol bro you could tell when he hurt Ramiz's soul when he said "are you not ashamed about your 2 test hundreds and you're out here talking about cricket?"

 

[topspin]

Ramiz is a fine example of someone who was able to make it in life through privilege. The guy is an idiot and the greatest parchi out of all the players I've personally witnessed represent Pakistan.

 

[Rana]

Lol bro you could tell when he hurt Ramiz's soul when he said "are you not ashamed about your 2 test hundreds and you're out here talking about cricket?"

At the time I thought Yousuf was too harsh, you shouldn’t belittle someone like that publicly

Later on I was watching some interview of Ramiz when he was chairman and he made a pretty nasty remark about Aqib Javed, saying something along the lines of how it’s a shame Aqib hasn’t gone on to do things for Pakistan or cricket the way his other peers from the 1992 World Cup side have done so.

Looking back at it now. I think Ramiz deserved this humbling!

 

[topspin]

At the time I thought Yousuf was too harsh, you shouldn’t belittle someone like that publicly

This is exactly what I thought about it at the time when this beef had started between the two.

Later on I was watching some interview of Ramiz when he was chairman and he made a pretty nasty remark about Aqib Javed, saying something along the lines of how it’s a shame Aqib hasn’t gone on to do things for Pakistan or cricket the way his other peers from the 1992 World Cup side have done so.

Looking back at it now. I think Ramiz deserved this humbling!

Don't forget how he tried to mock Shan Masood after he led Pakistan to a series win against England.

When I look back at it, Ramiz had it coming. An arrogant pr1ck who was nothing more than Imran Khan's pet.

 

[Major]

Ramiz's brother Wasim Raja was the real superstar. Maybe one of Pakistan's cricket's first real superstars, and so ahead of his time. Went to West Indies in 1977 and bashed a Windies attack featuring the likes of Garner, Croft, Roberts all over the place on fast, bouncy wickets. He made hitting sixes cool back when it was still considered reckless bravado.

Ramiz is nothing more than the black sheep of that family. The fact that he is more famous than Wasim just speaks to how empty and meaningless fame really is.

But i saw his record on cricinfo, he avged only 20 runs in odis.

 

[Rana]

But i saw his record on cricinfo, he avged only 20 runs in odis.

Did you know Bazid Khan’s dad, Majid Khan who retired in 1983 had a higher ODI strike rate than Misbah ul Haq who retired in 2015?

 

[topspin]

Did you know Bazid Khan’s dad, Majid Khan who retired in 1983 had a higher ODI strike rate than Misbah ul Haq who retired in 2015?

Doesn't matter bro, Misbah had a higher average than Inzamam in ODIs.

 

[Mohraheem]

He got rid of Misbah

 

[sweep_shot]

Did you know Bazid Khan’s dad, Majid Khan who retired in 1983 had a higher ODI strike rate than Misbah ul Haq who retired in 2015?

That's incredible.

Majid Khan has an ODI strike-rate of around 75. That was a very high strike-rate during those days.

 

[Greenstorm]

That's incredible.

Majid Khan has an ODI strike-rate of around 75. That was a very high strike-rate during those days.

Zaheer Abbas' stats are even crazier;

ODI avg: 47.6
Strike Rate: 84.8

Better strike rate than Imam, Abdullah, Misbah, A Shehzad, Ganguly, Lara etc !

 

[Greenstorm]

Remember an old poster with the ID Momo creating a thread asking posters who is the most undeserving talent to have played cricket. His pick was Rameez. His argument was that while even less talented players got to play international cricket, none of them played even half the matches Rameez got to play with his talent.

I agreed with him then, I agree with him now.​

He was wrong though. Shan Masood, Shoaib Malik, Imran Farhat were as bad if not worse than Ramiz and these are only those that I watched.

 

[sweep_shot]

Zaheer Abbas' stats are even crazier;

ODI avg: 47.6
Strike Rate: 84.8

Better strike rate than Imam, Abdullah, Misbah, A Shehzad, Ganguly, Lara etc !

Wow!

An ODI strike-rate of 84.8 during those days is equivalent to a strike-rate of 120 in today's time.

Zaheer Abbas is a legend.

 

[BouncerGuy]

THREAD IS ABOUT RAMIZ RAJA...

STAY ON TOPIC

 

[Rafale Nidhal]

Ramiz Raja was a parchi.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

But i saw his record on cricinfo, he avged only 20 runs in odis.

Stats alone don't always tell the full story about a player

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Very difficult to compare.

Pakistan used to play 40 overs ODIs at home until 1994 whereas England used to play 55 overs ODIs until 1995. It only started getting standardised from '96

So, there's bound to be significant variance in averages and strike rates .

Having said that, there were only a handful of batters(from his debut till 92 World Cup) , there were only 5 Top order batters with minimum 2000 runs who scored more and at a quicker rate ,

Greenidge
Haynes
Richardson
Boon
Dean Jones


He was a decent batter in a ,mostly, boring era of ODI cricket

 

[Major]

Stats alone don't always tell the full story about a player

Na man avg of 20 shows that a player is terrible

 

[emranabbas]

According to Wasim Akram’s book, Ramiz Raja’s place in the team was largely due to his father being the commissioner, rather than on merit.

 

[emranabbas]

Scoring only 31 fifties and only 7 hundreds in 198 matches, with a strike rate of just 60, tells you the story.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Na man avg of 20 shows that a player is terrible

I think you need to read up on your history before you paint someone you clearly know nothing about as "terrible"

Nobody cares what he did in ODI cricket, which was a nothing format back then anyway.

 

[Major]

I think you need to read up on your history before you paint someone you clearly know nothing about as "terrible"

Nobody cares what he did in ODI cricket, which was a nothing format back then anyway.

Sir, history is exagerrated.

This thread bashes rameez raja who avged 30, while some of you are romantisizing his brother who avged 20 in odi.

And i get it, when someone passes away, we tend to romanticize him.

Anyways, we can just agree to disagree on this

 

[Major]

Scoring only 31 fifties and only 7 hundreds in 198 matches, with a strike rate of just 60, tells you the story.

Still, one thing that is true is that Imran did had an eye for talent in cricket, and that cannot be doubted.

His vs countries records are pretty bad, but i wonder what were the options available in terms of openers back than in List A cricket, as i applied an avg filter last night and couldnt find any names from that era

 

[shaz619]

Mohammad Yusuf has explained this very well

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Sir, history is exagerrated.

This thread bashes rameez raja who avged 30, while some of you are romantisizing his brother who avged 20 in odi.

And i get it, when someone passes away, we tend to romanticize him.

Anyways, we can just agree to disagree on this

So you;re saying someone who scored 517 runs against a West Indies attack of Colin Croft, Joel Garner, Andy Roberts across 5 tests in 1976 and smashed 14 sixes is "terrible?". Again, if you’re ignorant of history, you shouldn’t go around making claims based on a 5-second glance at someone’s Cricinfo profile. Nobody called Wasim Raja the greatest all-rounder that Pakistan ever produced, but the guy was a maverick and a superstar at a time where cricket in general did not have many superstars. He could smash sixes, bowl handy leg-spin or even play highly measured knocks, like he did against Australia at the MCG in 1981. His partnership with Imran in that match played a defining role in bringing about one of the greatest ever victories in Australia to date. As Pakistan thrashed an Australian side led by Greg Chappel by an innings and 82 runs. At the end of the day, the reason I bring him up is because he is a highly underrated cricketer who does not get remembered enough, especially when people talk about the likes of Majid Khan, Mushtaq Mohammad, Sarfaraz Nawaz or others from that 70's team. If you don't believe me you can even ask some of the older fans like @gibsyhesperis, who have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

Rather than trying to understand that, or looking deeper into history, all you are doing is slandering his legacy without having the proper knowledge to do so. You are also ignorant of context because if you were you would know that ODI cricket did not start mattering until the late 80's and early 90's. India winning the World Cup and Miandad's six in Sharjah are probably two flash-points after which you can say that ODI cricket really began gaining popularity in the sub-continent. Wasim Raja played his last match in 1985.

Ramiz as a cricketer was thoroughly mediocre cricketer, pretty much all throughout his career. His closeness to Imran coupled with the fact that Pakistan's opening pool at the time was very thin (till the emergence of Saeed Anwar) allowed him to have a career that clearly shouldn't have gone on as long as it did. Till Saeed Anwar, and to a lesser extent, Aamir Sohail come on, Pakistan rotated between the likes of Mudassar Nazar, Shoaib Mohammad, Mohsin Khan, and Ramiz.

 

[Major]

So you;re saying someone who scored 517 runs against a West Indies attack of Colin Croft, Joel Garner, Andy Roberts across 5 tests in 1976 and smashed 14 sixes is "terrible?". Again, if you’re ignorant of history, you shouldn’t go around making claims based on a 5-second glance at someone’s Cricinfo profile. Nobody called Wasim Raja the greatest all-rounder that Pakistan ever produced, but the guy was a maverick and a superstar at a time where cricket in general did not have many superstars. He could smash sixes, bowl handy leg-spin or even play highly measured knocks, like he did against Australia at the MCG in 1981. His partnership with Imran in that match played a defining role in bringing about one of the greatest ever victories in Australia to date. As Pakistan thrashed an Australian side led by Greg Chappel by an innings and 82 runs. At the end of the day, the reason I bring him up is because he is a highly underrated cricketer who does not get remembered enough, especially when people talk about the likes of Majid Khan, Mushtaq Mohammad, Sarfaraz Nawaz or others from that 70's team. If you don't believe me you can even ask some of the older fans like @gibsyhesperis, who have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

Rather than trying to understand that, or looking deeper into history, all you are doing is slandering his legacy without having the proper knowledge to do so. You are also ignorant of context because if you were you would know that ODI cricket did not start mattering until the late 80's and early 90's. India winning the World Cup and Miandad's six in Sharjah are probably two flash-points after which you can say that ODI cricket really began gaining popularity in the sub-continent. Wasim Raja played his last match in 1985.

Ramiz as a cricketer was thoroughly mediocre cricketer, pretty much all throughout his career. His closeness to Imran coupled with the fact that Pakistan's opening pool at the time was very thin (till the emergence of Saeed Anwar) allowed him to have a career that clearly shouldn't have gone on as long as it did. Till Saeed Anwar, and to a lesser extent, Aamir Sohail come on, Pakistan rotated between the likes of Mudassar Nazar, Shoaib Mohammad, Mohsin Khan, and Ramiz.

He has no legeacy. Stop forcing it down the throat.

Dominating against one opponent doesnt make a person a legend, or else around here we would believe in the concept of Ashes legend.

Sorry but his avg shows how much of a player he was.

History gets romanticized.

If you had seen him play, than i would have accepted what you have said. But when you havent seen him play and our referencce point will be his stats, well they arnt that great. Just performing agianst the West Indies doesnt make you a legend.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He has no legeacy. Stop forcing it down the throat.

Dominating against one opponent doesnt make a person a legend, or else around here we would believe in the concept of Ashes legend.

Sorry but his avg shows how much of a player he was.

History gets romanticized.

If you had seen him play, than i would have accepted what you have said. But when you havent seen him play and our referencce point will be his stats, well they arnt that great. Just performing agianst the West Indies doesnt make you a legend.

This coming from the guy who is glorifying Ramiz Raja and thinks Imran had a great eye for talent because he found Ramiz?

Imran was a big proponent of Mansoor Akhtar too. Just because Imran found/backed some great players doesn't mean he didn't back a bunch of duds too.

I have presented factual analysis of things that actually happened. You have presented opinions you formed based on a 5-second glance at someone's Cricinfo profile. I bet you didn;t even know who he was before you Googled his name lol.

I may not have seen him play but I have read two of the most complete books on the history of Pakistan cricket - Unquiet Ones and Wounded Tiger. Maybe if you had you wouldn't be as ignorant as you clearly are. My suggestion to you would be to either stop talking out of school about things you clearly have zero knowledge about, or educate yourself before you start running your mouth.

In the meantime you can go back to cheering for a strokeless wonder like Ramiz, all by yourself.

 

[Major]

This coming from the guy who is glorifying Ramiz Raja and thinks Imran had a great eye for talent because he found Ramiz?

Imran was a big proponent of Mansoor Akhtar too. Just because Imran found/backed some great players doesn't mean he didn't back a bunch of duds too.

I have presented factual analysis of things that actually happened. You have presented opinions you formed based on a 5-second glance at someone's Cricinfo profile. I bet you didn;t even know who he was before you Googled his name lol.

I may not have seen him play but I have read two of the most complete books on the history of Pakistan cricket - Unquiet Ones and Wounded Tiger. Maybe if you had you wouldn't be as ignorant as you clearly are. My suggestion to you would be to either stop talking out of school about things you clearly have zero knowledge about, or educate yourself before you start running your mouth.

In the meantime you can go back to cheering for a strokeless wonder like Ramiz, all by yourself.

Where did i glorify ramiz raja? You seem to have taken some posts really personal here for some weird reason.

Imrans eye for talent was quite well known, and that Mansoor Akhtar example is very old one. Offcourse he would get some wrong, but Imran didnt have much options in opening and Imran goes on to explain in his interviews why he back Rameez in 1992.

Unlike you, no where have i made a statement that Ramiz has a legacy.

Meanwhile you are painting Wasim as some legend just because you like him, but his stats differ.

I know you havent watched wasim raja play, so your opinion reference point is also based on stats.

I respect you as a poster, dont know why you are being rude on disagreement. Theek hai bhai, you are the most knowledgeable one, im an idiot here

Anyways, i will avoid you in future i guess.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Where did i glorify ramiz raja? You seem to have taken some posts really personal here for some weird reason.

Imrans eye for talent was quite well known, and that Mansoor Akhtar example is very old one. Offcourse he would get some wrong, but Imran didnt have much options in opening and Imran goes on to explain in his interviews why he back Rameez in 1992.

Unlike you, no where have i made a statement that Ramiz has a legacy.

Meanwhile you are painting Wasim as some legend just because you like him, but his stats differ.

I know you havent watched wasim raja play, so your opinion reference point is also based on stats.

I respect you as a poster, dont know why you are being rude on disagreement. Theek hai bhai, you are the most knowledgeable one, im an idiot here

Anyways, i will avoid you in future i guess.

I think you need to learn to read. I said he’s underrated, and I backed that with evidence...facts that anyone with even minimal knowledge of cricket history can verify. Instead of doing any research, you chose to contradict me with nothing more than “his ODI average was 20.” And now you’re crying because you have nothing of substance to say. It would be one thing if you had accepted that you didn't know anything about this topic or even the fact that ODI cricket as a format started gaining popularity in the latter part of the '80s, but instead you chose to double down with ignorant statements like "he has no legacy", "we romanticize someone when they pass away"...all this just shows you are someone who has no respect for the history of Pakistan cricket, and therefore you left me no choice but to take you to task. So please, stop painting yourself as the victim and learn to own up to the fact that you’re out of your depth, when you are. Either step up with actual knowledge or step aside and let those who understand the game’s history have the conversation.

 

[gazza619]

This thread seems to have taken a rather silly turn with mostly light-hearted posts. It's important to remember that any player who represented Pakistan between the 1980s and 1990s and played so many games has demonstrated significant skill and dedication. These players deserve our respect for their contributions to the sport.

 

[Major]

This thread seems to have taken a rather silly turn with mostly light-hearted posts. It's important to remember that any player who represented Pakistan between the 1980s and 1990s and played so many games has demonstrated significant skill and dedication. These players deserve our respect for their contributions to the sport.

Well ramiz has gotten his fair share of hate due to his commentary stints and his statements on players over the years like the fixers and yousuf.

But he deserves respect at the end of the day as he was part of the world cup winning team and Imran has mentioned somewhere in some interview how taking the likes of them was important and how having him in the plans helped the team be build

 

[Mamoon]

My instincts tell me he was as good as Babar Azam

I think you need to let your instincts rest. They are not doing you any service.

 

[Mamoon]

He was the original but better version of Shan Masood.

 

[Hitman]

It baffles me how he played so many matches for Pakistan at a time when they were mostly a good team. The fact that he also captained his team is laughable keeping in mind his ability as a player.​

 

[Mamoon]

It baffles me how he played so many matches for Pakistan at a time when they were mostly a good team. The fact that he also captained his team is laughable keeping in mind his ability as a player.​

He was Imran Khan’s nepotistic pick. Ramiz owes his career to Imran. He is what he is today because of the backing he received from Imran during his career.

 

[Hitman]

He was Imran Khan’s nepotistic pick. Ramiz owes his career to Imran. He is what he is today because of the backing he received from Imran during his career.

I saw him play. Trust me I've never seen a more talentless, boring and bland batsman in my life.

 

[Mamoon]

I saw him play. Trust me I've never seen a more talentless, boring and bland batsman in my life.

Then you must not have watched Wajahatullah Wasti bat.

Watching him open alongside Saeed Anwar in the 99 World Cup was a contrast to behold. Two polar opposites batting together.

 

[Hitman]

Then you must not have watched Wajahatullah Wasti bat.

Watching him open alongside Saeed Anwar in the 99 World Cup was a contrast to behold. Two polar opposites batting together.

I did. I remember Inzamam wanting to almost beat him up once for running him out.

 

[Rajdeep]

I have seen him bat only once and Robin Singh clean bowled him. It was the same match where Saeed Anwar scored 194

 

[topspin]

This thread seems to have taken a rather silly turn with mostly light-hearted posts. It's important to remember that any player who represented Pakistan between the 1980s and 1990s and played so many games has demonstrated significant skill and dedication. These players deserve our respect for their contributions to the sport.

It took a silly turn when you got smoked after challenging me to prove Khawaja > Babar. Legend says your head is still spinning.

 

[Hitman]

I have seen him bat only once and Robin Singh clean bowled him. It was the same match where Saeed Anwar scored 194

He captained Pakistan in 1997, when he was quite possibly the only Pakistani player back then who wouldn't make it to the Indian team back then.​