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How good was Sunil Gavaskar?

Chrish

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All the numerical debate aside, how good was Gavaskar? Was he always a grafter or could he play knocks with attacking stroke play?

How exactly do you rate him as an opener?

Particularly would like to hear from those who saw him
 
Have seen him bat on youtube and heard from those who saw him bat. He was indeed one of the finest test openers of all time with an awesome defence much similar to Rahul Dravid. It would be no exaggeration to say that the Indian batting line up back then was very much dependent on him. He valued his wicket incredibly highly although may not have been the best stroke player of his time I regard him as the best opener of the 70's and 80's era. Incredibly strong of his pads he also had an immaculate record against the then brilliant pace attack of the West Indies. By and large he was however a defensive not attack minded batsman.
 
Have seen him bat on youtube and heard from those who saw him bat. He was indeed one of the finest test openers of all time with an awesome defence much similar to Rahul Dravid. It would be no exaggeration to say that the Indian batting line up back then was very much dependent on him. He valued his wicket incredibly highly although may not have been the best stroke player of his time I regard him as the best opener of the 70's and 80's era. Incredibly strong of his pads he also had an immaculate record against the then brilliant pace attack of the West Indies. By and large he was however a defensive not attack minded batsman.

your post accurately describes the impression I have of him. Not the batsman who destroyed or regularly took the game away from the opposition. Nevertheless getting him out was always a challenge for the captain and bowlers.

Perhaps more consistent version of Cook across the conditions would paint the accurate picture?
 
your post accurately describes the impression I have of him. Not the batsman who destroyed or regularly took the game away from the opposition. Nevertheless getting him out was always a challenge for the captain and bowlers.

Perhaps more consistent version of Cook across the conditions would paint the accurate picture?

If you are seeking entertainment then Sunny would be the last batsman anyone would want to match. He hated one day Cricket by his own admission, just imagine what he will think of the T20 stuff!!:najam Similar to Rahul Dravid and Michael Atherton in approach he was incredibly boring to watch. Yeah, his record suggests he scored well but mostly at a snails pace which is not taking anything away from his incredible powers of concentration. He was also similar to Mudussar nazar at the time who opened for Pak.
 
Real good. He was the first Indian batsman who really made an impact.
 
Might be the greatest Indian test batsman and greatest opener in the world of all time
 
All the numerical debate aside, how good was Gavaskar? Was he always a grafter or could he play knocks with attacking stroke play?

How exactly do you rate him as an opener?

Particularly would like to hear from those who saw him
He was superb.

He was as defensively sound as Geoff Boycott: his last Test innings of 96 on a minefield at Bangalore in a losing cause against Pakistan was magnificent.

But his last few ODI innings were superb attacking innings too. He took India into the World Cup semi-final by scoring 103 not out from 88 balls v New Zealand, in which he became the only batsman I have ever seen take Ewan Chatfield to the cleaners.

His only flaw as a batsman was his selfish personality.
 
All the numerical debate aside, how good was Gavaskar? Was he always a grafter or could he play knocks with attacking stroke play?

How exactly do you rate him as an opener?

Particularly would like to hear from those who saw him

Gavaskar was not of this world and it is inappropriate to ask to judge him in an internet forum. He was the one with the supreme personality who is destined to dine with Odin in Valhalla.

And btw, taking into account that he was an opener and the bowlers he faced, do add at least 5 to his average.
 
among top 3 batsman ever from SA.

For me top 3 from Asia are:

Sachin
Sangakarra
Gavaskar
 
Haven't seen him but looking at his estimated SR it was around the mid 40s. Given the time period and how the quicks ruled the game back then that's not a bad effort for an opener. In comparison even someone like Greenidge was estimated to have gone at around the 50 mark.


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Though Indians consider Gavasker as great batsman against pacer looking at his record in WI, he is one of the best batsman against spin I have ever seen. His last innings in a minefield against two canny spinners should be a must watch in a curriculam "how to play spin". His record shows he was good against fast bowler. But I would take that with a pinch of salt as his record in WI was not against the Fearsome Four. His record in England was also in late summer. But he was epitome of patience and any all time world XI he would be contender of openers along with Hanif, Boycot, Hutton, Sutclif.
Gavasker the oneday player is a different story. With present day selection process he should not play any ODI since his famous 36
 
A more consistent version of Alastair Cook+ much better vs quality pace attack, he , is arguably the greatest opener of all time with only competition being against Hobbs and Hutton. Haven't heard much of Sutcliffe except his whopping stats and Barry Richards played merely 5 tests.

Smith, Hayden, Gooch, Cook and others are clearly a level or two below him.
 
Like others have said, a olden-days, superior version of Alastair Cook. Did not have the ability to counter-attack but he was tough to get out. ATG test batsman, horrible ODI batsman who didn't even like the shorter format.
 
In the 1975 World Cup he batted for 60 overs and scored 30 odd runs.

I never saw him play live but his test record is brilliant and he had the admiration of the other greats of test cricket. And that to me means more than the stats.
 
Him and Sehwag would have formed a dream opening pair for India.
 
He was superb.

He was as defensively sound as Geoff Boycott: his last Test innings of 96 on a minefield at Bangalore in a losing cause against Pakistan was magnificent.

But his last few ODI innings were superb attacking innings too. He took India into the World Cup semi-final by scoring 103 not out from 88 balls v New Zealand, in which he became the only batsman I have ever seen take Ewan Chatfield to the cleaners.

His only flaw as a batsman was his selfish personality.

I am assuming you saw some of his innings live.

Who do you rate as the best openers you have seen?
 
It's natural for openers to have lower averages and SR. Not only they face the new ball but also more often then not, bowlers and fielders are fresh and well-rested.

Gavaskar's record for the era he played in is pretty much perfect. Not wearing helmet and still averaging 40+ in each country barring Lanka where he played 3 tests near end of his career. Yes his numbers weren't the same against the quarter but still he faced guys like Holding on a regular bases. That's what makes me skeptical. His numbers are too good to be true. He is a statical marvel in the same mold as Kallis.
 
It's natural for openers to have lower averages and SR. Not only they face the new ball but also more often then not, bowlers and fielders are fresh and well-rested.

Gavaskar's record for the era he played in is pretty much perfect. Not wearing helmet and still averaging 40+ in each country barring Lanka where he played 3 tests near end of his career. Yes his numbers weren't the same against the quarter but still he faced guys like Holding on a regular bases. That's what makes me skeptical. His numbers are too good to be true. He is a statical marvel in the same mold as Kallis.
Actually he did wear first a skullcap and then a helmet. In the 1980's only Viv Richards wore neither.

He was the equal second best opener that I have ever seen, or maybe slightly behind (see below). Barry Richards was the best by far, but I consider him to be the second best batsman of all-time behind Bradman - and arguably not very far behind at all.

Sunil Gavaskar I would place on a par with Geoff Boycott, and trust me, that is the highest praise imaginable. I know that [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] has been a little distracted by footage of the 40 year old Boycott in 1980-81, which is unfair.

Boycott and Gavaskar had an incredible ability to judge - and leave - on line and length outside off-stump. Alastair Cook is the closest modern player, but he doesn't have their footwork or technique, he just has the judgment of what to leave.

But there was a third ATG opener in my lifetime, and to my shame I didn't recognize it until it was too late - a bit like my error with Zinedine Zidane until 2006.

In the 1980s we all tended to rate Gordon Greenidge very highly as an ATG opener, even though we had all seen at Hampshire that he was only half the batsman that his teammate Barry Richards was.

But it was only after around 1988 that it became clear that his West Indies opening partner Desmond Haynes was even better - and I'd argue that he actually was by the end at least as good as Gavaskar and Boycott.

In 1992-93 the West Indies hosted Pakistan for the undisputed Test World Championship. And ultimately they won comfortably due to the insane selection policies of the PBC, who left Saleem Malik and Shoaib Mohammad at home.

But in a moderate-scoring series, Desmond Haynes had scores against Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram of:

31 and 143 not out
125 and 16 not out
23 and 64 not out.

And if I am brutally honest, while his average was inferior, Desmond Haynes was actually the greatest Test opener of the modern era - ahead of both Geoff Boycott and Sunil Gavaskar.

And if the WICB had not refused to pick him for the home series against Australia in 1994-95 - the age-old story of refusing to pick people who didn't play domestic cricket - history would have taken a different course, because Australia would not have knocked the West Indies off the summit.
 
Actually he did wear first a skullcap and then a helmet. In the 1980's only Viv Richards wore neither.

The supreme talent of Richards enabled him to not be hit on the head by Roberts, Holding, Garner and Croft thus making helmets unnecessary accessories :)
 
This is a prime example why I keep pointing out that cricket does averages wrong. Richards never faced the best pace attack of that time whereas Gavaskar did.

Cricket needs to do weighted averages not straight up.

Ten years from now people will realize what I am talking about.( I am kidding)
 
I have seen him wear skullcap in few videos but in other videos he clearly was only wearing the cap.

I can accept Barry Richards rated higher subjectively since he is rated as such by many analysts/ ex-players and umpires. However I can never accept Bycott > or = Sunny. Both defensive players but Sunny was far more likely to punish a bad delivery with a boundary than Geoff.
 
We are only talking about openers here.. Richards doesn't come into conversation.
 
the skull cap was a late career thing in the mid 80's. the guy started his career in 1971.

not sure I've seen him in a "helmet"
I'm pretty sure he wore the skullcap against the new ball in 1979 at The Oval in his knock of 221. Brearley was also wearing one at the time. But I could be wrong!
 
the skull cap was a late career thing in the mid 80's. the guy started his career in 1971.

not sure I've seen him in a "helmet"

That's the other thing people misunderstand with Gavaskar.

An average of 65 against the West Indies seems awe-inspiring. But he scored 774 runs at an average of 154.80 in 1970-71, long before they had the legendary pace attack.

Whereas in 1982-83 he only averaged 30.00 in 5 Tests in the West Indies.

Put into context, the 33 year old Sunil Gavaskar was clearly inferior against the all-conquering version of the West Indies when compared with his teammate Mohinder Amarnath, but also when compared with Allan Border a couple of years later and even Jeremy Coney of New Zealand handled them a bit better at a similar age.

He's still an ATG. But his record in the West Indies is very misleading.
 
That's the other thing people misunderstand with Gavaskar.

An average of 65 against the West Indies seems awe-inspiring. But he scored 774 runs at an average of 154.80 in 1970-71, long before they had the legendary pace attack.

Whereas in 1982-83 he only averaged 30.00 in 5 Tests in the West Indies.

Put into context, the 33 year old Sunil Gavaskar was clearly inferior against the all-conquering version of the West Indies when compared with his teammate Mohinder Amarnath, but also when compared with Allan Border a couple of years later and even Jeremy Coney of New Zealand handled them a bit better at a similar age.

He's still an ATG. But his record in the West Indies is very misleading.

Jimmy was ballsy. but he paid for it dearly. There are two camps in india in the 80's. Kapil vs gavaskar.

Guess which camp I belonged to? ;-)
 
That's the other thing people misunderstand with Gavaskar.

An average of 65 against the West Indies seems awe-inspiring. But he scored 774 runs at an average of 154.80 in 1970-71, long before they had the legendary pace attack.

Whereas in 1982-83 he only averaged 30.00 in 5 Tests in the West Indies.

Put into context, the 33 year old Sunil Gavaskar was clearly inferior against the all-conquering version of the West Indies when compared with his teammate Mohinder Amarnath, but also when compared with Allan Border a couple of years later and even Jeremy Coney of New Zealand handled them a bit better at a similar age.

He's still an ATG. But his record in the West Indies is very misleading.

He averaged 56 in 75-76 tour of WI and they were world champions even then. But 83 was a flop from sunny's standard.

My take on Sunny is incredible Test opener and India Started drawing matches consistently abroad and he could win matches where the bowlers give some sniff.
No doubt he was very selfish and count his centuries as if he counted days left in this life.
 
No player back then had such an incredible technique and temperament as Sunny did. Wasim Akram till this day mentions how great of a batsman he was and how difficult it was to dismiss him. Akram has mentioned in the past that one of his main ambition as a youngster was to dismiss Sunny. He was able to do so just once but it was in an ODI match.
 
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He averaged 56 in 75-76 tour of WI and they were world champions even then. But 83 was a flop from sunny's standard.

My take on Sunny is incredible Test opener and India Started drawing matches consistently abroad and he could win matches where the bowlers give some sniff.
No doubt he was very selfish and count his centuries as if he counted days left in this life.

I totally agree with you EXCEPT for the first paragraph.

The 1975-76 West Indies were not yet the World Champions of Test Cricket.

Just 4 weeks earlier they had lost a Test series 5-1 in Australia, with only Andy Roberts a genuine quick bowler: Michael Holding was still a wild rookie and averaged 61 in that series.

They improved in England the summer after the India tour, but only became World Test Champions twelve months AFTER India's tour with a narrow 2-1 home win over Mushtaq Mohammad's superb Pakistani team.

Gavaskar's two great Caribbean series were against weak attacks.
 
one of the ATG openers for sure in tests. But not sure as to where Gavakar would end up in one-one comparison with the likes of Haynes,Greenidge etc who were superior to SG in one dayers. Gavaskar with an avg: of 35+ & str: rate of 63 too was a good one day opener of those days. But when over all batsmanship is concerned Haynes ,Greenidge, Miandad were on a par with Gavaskar with much superior one day stats though
Gavaskar eclipsed them with much superior test stats. So all in all difficult to rank these players .
 
This is a prime example why I keep pointing out that cricket does averages wrong. Richards never faced the best pace attack of that time whereas Gavaskar did.

Cricket needs to do weighted averages not straight up.

Ten years from now people will realize what I am talking about.( I am kidding)

He did and he failed. He failed against lillie and Thommo in 1975 in Aus to the effect that he needed to go to a psychologist to get himself set. If you see Richard's record that season in domestic Red Stripe cup, he did not set the world ablaze.

Richards had a great record against India and England (medium pacers/spinners/ seaming tracks / swinging conditions). Against out and out fast bowling, there have been murmurs that he has been found wanting. Sad thing is after the 75 tour, the Packer circus took off and Aus never saw a full strength team.

Richards might have played a couple of brilliant knocks in the WSC but that 75 tour to Aus is still a blemish he cannot take off his record!
 
Actually he did wear first a skullcap and then a helmet. In the 1980's only Viv Richards wore neither.

He was the equal second best opener that I have ever seen, or maybe slightly behind (see below). Barry Richards was the best by far, but I consider him to be the second best batsman of all-time behind Bradman - and arguably not very far behind at all.

Sunil Gavaskar I would place on a par with Geoff Boycott, and trust me, that is the highest praise imaginable. I know that [MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] has been a little distracted by footage of the 40 year old Boycott in 1980-81, which is unfair.

Boycott and Gavaskar had an incredible ability to judge - and leave - on line and length outside off-stump. Alastair Cook is the closest modern player, but he doesn't have their footwork or technique, he just has the judgment of what to leave.

But there was a third ATG opener in my lifetime, and to my shame I didn't recognize it until it was too late - a bit like my error with Zinedine Zidane until 2006.

In the 1980s we all tended to rate Gordon Greenidge very highly as an ATG opener, even though we had all seen at Hampshire that he was only half the batsman that his teammate Barry Richards was.

But it was only after around 1988 that it became clear that his West Indies opening partner Desmond Haynes was even better - and I'd argue that he actually was by the end at least as good as Gavaskar and Boycott.

In 1992-93 the West Indies hosted Pakistan for the undisputed Test World Championship. And ultimately they won comfortably due to the insane selection policies of the PBC, who left Saleem Malik and Shoaib Mohammad at home.

But in a moderate-scoring series, Desmond Haynes had scores against Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram of:

31 and 143 not out
125 and 16 not out
23 and 64 not out.

And if I am brutally honest, while his average was inferior, Desmond Haynes was actually the greatest Test opener of the modern era - ahead of both Geoff Boycott and Sunil Gavaskar.

And if the WICB had not refused to pick him for the home series against Australia in 1994-95 - the age-old story of refusing to pick people who didn't play domestic cricket - history would have taken a different course, because Australia would not have knocked the West Indies off the summit.

Don't be so sure. I also used to think the same, but here is an excerpt from former english spinner Pat Pocock
"Sylvester Clarke was the most feared man in world cricket. Viv Richards went into print saying he didn't like facing him. Viv says he didn't wear a helmet. He bloody did: he wore one twice against Surrey when Sylvester Clarke was playing. "

You can google the link yourself in CI. There are a lot of myths flying around which can be broken, if we have enough proof. I rate you as a quality (not often unbiased) poster and thought you should see this.

P.s. Another myth is that Michael holding never bowled a wide in his career!
 
Don't be so sure. I also used to think the same, but here is an excerpt from former english spinner Pat Pocock
"Sylvester Clarke was the most feared man in world cricket. Viv Richards went into print saying he didn't like facing him. Viv says he didn't wear a helmet. He bloody did: he wore one twice against Surrey when Sylvester Clarke was playing. "

You can google the link yourself in CI. There are a lot of myths flying around which can be broken, if we have enough proof. I rate you as a quality (not often unbiased) poster and thought you should see this.

P.s. Another myth is that Michael holding never bowled a wide in his career!

Thanks - I've learned something today!

Mind you, Clarke was scary. One normal bouncer and one chucked one.
 
Thanks - I've learned something today!

Mind you, Clarke was scary. One normal bouncer and one chucked one.

I am glad and honored to have got a response from you and you are most welcome. Yes Clarke was mind blowingly scary. Not that I have seen him but from what I have heard from my folks and read around. Even Pat Pocock went on to say this about Clarke:

" Fearsome, fearsome bowler. I played against Roberts, Holding, Daniel, Garner, Marshall, Patterson, Walsh, Ambrose - all of them. I faced Sylvs in the nets on an underprepared wicket, no sightscreen, no one to stop him overstepping. There was nobody as fearsome as Clarkey was. And everybody knew it."

I even read somewhere that Clarke went on record to say that he would bowl a bouncer to his mother if needed.
 
<b>Jimmy was ballsy. but he paid for it dearly.</b> There are two camps in india in the 80's. Kapil vs gavaskar.

Guess which camp I belonged to? ;-)

Jimmy was indeed ballsy and actually called the selectors "a bunch of jokers". Jimmy's last name was also Amarnath.

I think you meant to say Sunny :)
 
He did and he failed. He failed against lillie and Thommo in 1975 in Aus to the effect that he needed to go to a psychologist to get himself set. If you see Richard's record that season in domestic Red Stripe cup, he did not set the world ablaze.

Richards had a great record against India and England (medium pacers/spinners/ seaming tracks / swinging conditions). Against out and out fast bowling, there have been murmurs that he has been found wanting. Sad thing is after the 75 tour, the Packer circus took off and Aus never saw a full strength team.

Richards might have played a couple of brilliant knocks in the WSC but that 75 tour to Aus is still a blemish he cannot take off his record!

I meant he never had to face the WI pace attack. Never face Andy Roberts and that is why as I mentioned cricket has been doing averages wrong for more than hundred years.

Viv was one of the cleanest hitters of them all. First test match six I saw was by Vivian Richards and I still remember sitting in the stands and the ball was lofted for a power six. Unbelievable.
 
Should we discard Kohli and Pujara's runs during home season since they never have to face Ashwin and Jadeja on turners?
 
One can only face what is there in front of him and does his best to conquer the challenge..

It's moronic to argue otherwise.
 
One can only face what is there in front of him and does his best to conquer the challenge..

It's moronic to argue otherwise.

We are not discussing philosphy here. I am calling out as I see.
 
He did and he failed. He failed against lillie and Thommo in 1975 in Aus to the effect that he needed to go to a psychologist to get himself set. If you see Richard's record that season in domestic Red Stripe cup, he did not set the world ablaze.

Richards had a great record against India and England (medium pacers/spinners/ seaming tracks / swinging conditions). Against out and out fast bowling, there have been murmurs that he has been found wanting. Sad thing is after the 75 tour, the Packer circus took off and Aus never saw a full strength team.

Richards might have played a couple of brilliant knocks in the WSC but that 75 tour to Aus is still a blemish he cannot take off his record!
With respect,

1. You are being a bit harsh judging Viv Richards by the formative series of his youth.

2. I would politely suggest that perhaps you haven't afforded enough importance to Packer's series. These SuperTests were much harder than Test cricket, and Viv Richards did pretty well, just not as well as Barry Richards.

3. You also haven't afforded enough importance to Viv Richards's performance in the World Championship Test series at home to Pakistan in 1987-88. The attack of Imran Khan, Wasim Akram and Abdul Qadir was at least as good as the Lillian Thomson attack of 1975-76.

It's not unusual to fail on a first tour of Australia, like Babar Azam just did. But Richards became a superb batsman in Aussie conditions.
 
Jimmy was indeed ballsy and actually called the selectors "a bunch of jokers". Jimmy's last name was also Amarnath.

I think you meant to say Sunny :)

nope, I meant Jimmy. He was fearless in taking on fast bowlers and got hurt playing that style.

also was hurt by the mumbai gang which ruled indian cricket back then
 
nope, I meant Jimmy. He was fearless in taking on fast bowlers and got hurt playing that style.

also was hurt by the mumbai gang which ruled indian cricket back then

I was always on Jimmy's side and admired him no end for his integrity and courage.
 
His name would have the been on number 1 in the list of best test inning ever player had English umpires and players not cheated. Chasing 450 odd in 4th inning in england, gavaskar was unbeaten on 230+ with India 8 down and needing 15-20 runs to win the match and guess what English umpires offered light to the bowling side - England
 
His name would have the been on number 1 in the list of best test inning ever player had English umpires and players not cheated. Chasing 450 odd in 4th inning in england, gavaskar was unbeaten on 230+ with India 8 down and needing 15-20 runs to win the match and guess what English umpires offered light to the bowling side - England

Gavaskar got India very close but did get out at 221.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63240.html
 
Never seen him live. And some footages that are available on youtube are the ones that are filmed from the batsman's back 70's style which i cant stand to watch. I only saw 221 and some other 100's in 80's.

Still I rate him highly. As he is always praised by his peers and those that play with him. My opinion of him is mostly from imran khan interviews about him and one very nice articla by harsha bhogle on cricinfo about his playing style. Look it up
 
Tribute to Gavaskar for 70th birthday-how great was he ?

Sunil Gavaskar is without doubt a cricketing legend who mane will carve a permanent niche amongst the greats of the game of cricket.There cant be a slightest doubt that he was one of the greatest batsmen of all time and amongst the 3-4 best opening batsmen of all time .Sunil Gavaskar was the ultimate epitome of concentration out there in the middle,resembling a monk meditating.He blended the grammar of an Oxford University English professor with the courage or determination of a great military general ,tenacity of a boulder,organization of an architect and the concentration of a Buddhist monk meditating.If one wanted to bet on batsmen to score a hundred I would have backed Sunil more than anyone .Gavaskar's batting was revelation in the most precarious conditions displaying tenacity or relentlessnes at an intensity unsurpassed.Watching him at his best was a soul searching experience.Here I wish to asess where he stood amongst the great batsmen,opening batsmen and cricketers.This yaer he completed 70 yaers on July 10th so I am wishing him a birthday tribute a bit late.



No batsmen set more records than Gavaskar in the 1970-s -80's era when fast bowling standard was at its best or most lethal and suitable headgear was not available.Unlike later greats like Lara ,Tendulkar,Ponting ,Kolhli and Smith Gavaskar did not wear a helmet or any adequate protective equipment.No batsmen in his day scored 100 or more runs in a calendar as many times scored a century in both innings of a game 3 times reached 20 centuries in such fast time and overall scored as many runs and centuries.He was the most prolific test batsmen of the 1970's scoring 5647 run sat 55.71.No batsmen scored as much in a debut series as Gavaskar in West Indies in 1970-71.No great batsmen faced as many great fast bowlers like Lillee,Roberts,Holding,Garner,Marshall,Thomson ,Botham, Hadlee and Imran.For sheer technical skill only Barry Richards perhaps surpassed him in his day.,with his strokes resembling a perfect chapter in a coaching manual for a school boy.Above all he bore the brunt single-handedly of a relatively weak team unlike the other greats of his age.



What went against Gavaskar was arguably his strike or scoring rate as often he occupied the crease for too long a time which may have cost a game from having a result. Classic examples are his 172 in 708 mins in Bangalore v England in 1981-82 .He did not win many tests averaging around 43 in games won which was 6 less than brother-in law Gundappa Vishwanath.He was also considerably overshadowed as a match-winner by Viv Richards and Greg Chappell.In later period sthe likes of Tendulkar,Lara ,Dravid ,Sehwag and Ponting and now Kolhi had much better statistics in games won.Gavaskar also benefited from not playing in the Kerry Packer WSC supertsets and facing the depleted West Indian and Australian attacks between 1977-79.Sunny scored 3 centuries in 1977-78 in Australia with Thomson but without Lille and with a 2nd string team and scored 4 c centuries at 91.50 facing a 2nd string West Indies pace attack without the services of Roberts,Holding and Garner.He also scored 2 versus a 2nd string Australian team at home.That amounts to 10 centuries averaging around 70 overall.Facing full strength attacks I doubt he would have been as prolific in those games ,even if he averaged around 50. 8 of Gavaskar's 13 centuries against West Indies came against the lesser attacks and not the best of West Indies pacemen against whom he averaged 43,as compare to overall average of 65 against that country.Unlike Viv Richards Gavaskar was never succesful against Dennis Lillee ,like in 1980-81.Often Gavaskar got into trouble on wickets of uneven bounce ,particularly in the 1st innings in the view of Roberts and Imran and Lillee did not rank him so highly.Unlike Graham Gooch Gavaskar did not score a century at Kingston or Barbados against the great pace quartet which were the fastest tracks in West Indies or was at his best against the great Carribean quartet on their soil.Even Greg Chappel overshadowed Gavaskar against top Calypso pace as well as Mohinder Amarnath in 1983.He wa salso not as artistic ot stylish as brother-in-law Gundappa Vishwanath or as elegant as Greg Chappell or Zaheer Abbas or as entertaining as Viv Richards or Gordon Greenidge.



Thus weighing the pros and cons where did the little master rank?It must be stated that Sunny played in an era where there were far less results with scoring rate relatively lower than from the 1990's.Gavaskar also had to single-handedly bear the brunt of India's bating with only Vishwanath able to support him in the middle before the 1980's.Unlike Viv Richards and Greg Chappell Gavaskar not only hardly got support from any batsmen bar Vishwanath ,but played for a team with a very weak bowling attack..who could not thus complement his batting.A great Gavaskar knock may have been the architect of many a great win with ample support like Viv or Greg got,or Barry Richards in his playing days.Gavaskar saved more tests than any opening batsmen in history particularly facing Imran,Botham,Marshall etc and also won important tests facing the likes of Imran and Holding.Morally his epic 221 won India the 1979 Oval test in what would have been a record 4th innings chase .Similarly his 156 at Trinidad in the 2nd test in 1975-76 morally won India the game.His 102 at Trinidad played a major role in India acheiving the then highest 4th innings total to win a test of 406 runs.His 166 at Madras against Pakistan laid the foundation for India to win the test and win its 1st series versus Pakistan for 28 years.In 1985-86 Gavaskar averaged more than any overseas batsmen on any test tour in his time averaging around 100 with 2 big centuries.No batsmen was more prolific facing Imran.From mid 1980's Gavaskar started to bat agressively and scored some classics in fast scoring like his 121 at Delhi and 90 at Ahmedabad.At Madras facing West Indies pace attack he scored an unbeaten 236 in a dead rubber. Still one of the very few to ever score a double hundred against the great pace quartet.Gavaskar sealed his career with a classic 96 at Bangalore v Pakistan on the worst of cricket pitches resembling a surgeon successfully operating a patient considered incurable.I canot viuslaize even Brdaman ,Viv or even Sachin equallig Sunny in that innings.Similarly I would not have backed Tendulkar to equal Gavaskar's cavalier 90 on cracked Ahmedbad pitch against WEst Indies in 1983.



Viv Richards ranked Sunny as the best batsmen of his day,Sobers as the best he saw above Tendulkar with Roberts and Holding also placing him ahead of Sachin.Imran Khan felt he wast he most compact batsmen he ever bowled to.Experts Cristopher Martin Jenkins and John Woodcock rated Sunny very close to Bradman .



Sunny was more successful than Sachin Tendulkar in 4th innings of test matches which is significant. and scored more centuries facing the great pacemen than Lara,Tendulkar or even Dravid and Kohli.Still it is Viv Richards,Sobers,Lara and Tendulkar or now Kohli or Smith who could give more shape to games with their great reserves of talent or creativity .Bradman was not fully tested against all the teams but I very much doubt he would have averaged less than 7--75 with his outstanding record,even if he may not have equalled or surpassed Gavaskar's tenacity facing lethal pace.Gavaskar in my view did not equal Jack Hobbs on wet sticklers or his best performances in adverse condition s and Jack Hob's phenomenal 1st class figures rank him ahead.Hammond's supreme domination in all conditions place him a notch ahead of Sunny.Unlike Lara and Tendulkar Gavaskar never played against South Africa who had a great bowling attacks and not as successful against Australia,particularly in their conditions.Both faced superior spin more succesfully than Sunil.



Adding Kerry Packer cricket stats Greg Chapell may rate ahead with his 621 runs in 4 supertests in West Indies in 1979 and scoring 1416 runs at 56-14 overall in WSC.Graeme Pollock.George Headley,Javed Miandad ,Rahul Dravid and Herbert Sutcliffe also had better averages and Border a higher aggregate.However if you overall weigh burden carried off the team and strength of attacks faced ,state of the attack and conditions played in ,Gavaskar would in my view edge them all.Sunny negotiated the new or bouncing ball better than any of them or even the moving ball.To me Greg Chappell opting out of 1981 Ashes,never playing in India and retiring before facing Clive Lloyds West Indies team in 1984-85 away and at home goes against his being rated ahead or on par with Sunny Although a better record against great pacemen Greg did not prove the equal of Gavaskar against spin or the moving ball.Border was the ultimate champion in a crisis but did not have to open the batting and in my view was not Gavaskar's technical equal or as complete.



I feel Gavaskar draws with Len Hutton and Barry Richards.Gavaskar was technically a carbon copy of Hutton.Hutton was more adept on bad surfaces,Gavaskar more durable against lethal pace.Hutton had a higher average but did not face as high quality bowling.Hutton won more games but Gavaskar had to shoulder much more of his team's burden.Barry Richards hardly had an international career but including WSC supertests he had a staggering average of over 75,averaging over 79 in Packer cricket and 72.57 v Australia in ahoe series.In Ist class cricket no batsmen ever looked more perfect or complete as Bary who was virtually on par with Viv in terms of domination.Significant that Bradman chose Barry instead of Len or Sunil in his all-time xi.My personal choice would be Barry with Jack Hobbs.



Amongst great cricketers I more or less agree with Cristopher Martin Jenkins and Geof Armstrong who rank Gavaskar around 25th place.Gavaskar would be shaded by Bradman,Grace,Sobers,Hobbs ,Warne Tendulkar,Barnes,Hammond,Imran,Marshall,Lara,Kallis,Botham,Murali ,Lillee ,Gichrist etc.A virtual photo finish to me with Wasim Akram ,Richard Hadlee ,Len Hutton,Glen Mcgrath and thus more or less equal.A whisker above Ambrose,Graeme Pollock,Alan Border,Javed Miandad ,Dale Steyn and Ricky Ponting.Considering the stage of their careers I do not know where to bracket Steve Smith or Virat Kolhli who wil probally edge Sunny at the end of their careers to rank ahead.
 
Definitely without any doubt the greatest test opener in past 50 years.

I would personally put only Hobbs higher than him, Barry Richards maybe a legendary cricketer himself but he played only 5 tests, and Sutcliffe was only good for amateur era.

Hobbs and Gavaskar- the two names for me as the greatest test openers of all-time with Len Hutton the third pick.
 
Started following cricket long after Gavaskar had left the game. I hear he was highly rated by all the greats. What strikes me the most was that he appeared to be a true gentleman on and off the field.

If anyone needs to be educated on how to be polite, show them Gavaskar talking.
 
It is very difficult to convince me to agree to any batsman being ahead of Tendulkar having lived through the 1990s and having experienced in real the hype and phenomena that Sachin was.

But i have to confess that every time i watch old video clips of Sunil Gavaskar's batting, i am immediately awestruck.

It is my great hobby to watch as much Cricket as i can. I have watched footages of many greats of the past, way back to the black and white era.

Having watched all this footage, Gavaskar always emerged to me as easily the best looking test batsman. The class, the technique, the posture, the attitude all in a class unmatched.

Purely as a test batsman, you could probably rate Gavaskar greatest since Bradman.
 
Never saw him live. But, I believe he was famous for his slow batting.

A great of his time but not sure if he is an ATG.
 
Started following cricket long after Gavaskar had left the game. I hear he was highly rated by all the greats. What strikes me the most was that he appeared to be a true gentleman on and off the field.

If anyone needs to be educated on how to be polite, show them Gavaskar talking.

A remarkably mature and genuinely chilled out person. Listening to his interviews and his candid self depreciating anecdotes is always fun.

Young Indian kids in the 1980s had the perfect batting role model to look up to.
 
An average of 50+ as an opener at home, away and outside Asia playing in the toughest era of high quality pace bowling, enuff said.

You just don't get a batter as legendary as him.
 
A remarkably mature and genuinely chilled out person. Listening to his interviews and his candid self depreciating anecdotes is always fun.

Young Indian kids in the 1980s had the perfect batting role model to look up to.

Indeed. It saddens me when i hear the current crop of indian pakistani players talking.

I would rather watch a tik tok video
 
Indeed. It saddens me when i hear the current crop of indian pakistani players talking.

I would rather watch a tik tok video

It was a definitely a better generation of people all around. Probably

Zaheer Abbass was iconic in India given we suffered most of his wrath, he regularly featured on Indian talk shows when Cricket resumed in 2000s between India-Pakistan. Listening to him was always great.
 
He is best Test Player India ever had.

No doubt will feature in best ever India as well Asia all time XI

Also , very very strong contender to all time best world XI
 
I saw him live, and followed him at a time when he was at his peak.

He is an ATG, a genius. A superb batsman, stylish, correct, prolific. He wasn't a grafter, but a batsman with immense concentration and a glorious range of shots. He became more stolid as time went because of public expectation and more than extraordinary team reliance on him.

He has a fair call to being the best Test opener of all time - arguably of course- but he's right up there in the tops 3/4.

For those who weren't able to follow him live, in terms of his impact on public imagination in India, he was a superstar. Think Amitabh Bachchan at his peak. It's hard to imagine the pressure he was under to bat consistently, simply because Indian fans believed that it was Gavaskar or bust.

At least with SRT for long part of his career, you knew that we had Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag to tide us over. And as for the hype around SRT, Tendulkar operated at a time when media exploded, huge monies were pumped into cricket, and he repeated the benefits. Gavaskar? Respect to Vishy, Mohinder Amarnath, Vengsarkar (and later Azhar), but it wasn't the same.

Who's better (SRT or Sunny) is a different discussion, but for whoever wasn't following cricket back then, Gavaskar was Indian cricket, larger than life, revered.
 
Never saw him live. But, I believe he was famous for his slow batting.

A great of his time but not sure if he is an ATG.

He's not just an ATG, he's been ranked as one of the Test best openers of all time by people whose opinion carries weight. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richie_Benaud's_Greatest_XI

Of course people have their choices, and some may rank Hobbs/ Hutton better, but the fact remains he's an ATG.
 
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I see. Thanks.

But, he would probably not make it to the team in today's age. Nonetheless, some impressive stats.

Not make the team!
A thousand times better than the HTB Sharma
Would be a top three test batsmen in the world with Smith, Kohli
 
I see. Thanks.

But, he would probably not make it to the team in today's age. Nonetheless, some impressive stats.

Cheers.

I will again disagree with you. He averaged 50 in an era when it meant a lot more. He held the record for the highest number of Test centuries - beat Bradman's 29. IN fact SRT broke his record in 2005.

He wasn't a nudger/ grafter. He's played iconic inning around the world.

He would reverse moonwalk into the Indian Test team, half asleep.

In fact I'd argue that in Tests he'd be the first name on the team sheet, ahead of Kohli, but again we can debate that.
 
I see. Thanks.

But, he would probably not make it to the team in today's age. Nonetheless, some impressive stats.

LOL

Gavaskar's slow batting is a stereotype that was busted by Gavaskar himself by the end of his career when he was smashing the best bowlers purely for fun.

Modern day fans have seen naturally aggressive players like ABD park the bus a few times tk save test matches. Consider that an every day job for someone like Gavaskar who represented a mediocre Indian team for most of his career.

Gavaskar, if he played for modern India, would be one of the most fluid and entertaining cricketers in the world.
 
LOL

Gavaskar's slow batting is a stereotype that was busted by Gavaskar himself by the end of his career when he was smashing the best bowlers purely for fun.

Modern day fans have seen naturally aggressive players like ABD park the bus a few times tk save test matches. Consider that an every day job for someone like Gavaskar who represented a mediocre Indian team for most of his career.

Gavaskar, if he played for modern India, would be one of the most fluid and entertaining cricketers in the world.

Gavaskar himself said that he wasnt fluid and couldnt play at a high tempo for long periods.

Anyways Imran Khan always said he was the batsman of the generation once Greg Chappell retired so clearly Gavaskar was among the best
 
I saw him live, and followed him at a time when he was at his peak.

He is an ATG, a genius. A superb batsman, stylish, correct, prolific. He wasn't a grafter, but a batsman with immense concentration and a glorious range of shots. He became more stolid as time went because of public expectation and more than extraordinary team reliance on him.

He has a fair call to being the best Test opener of all time - arguably of course- but he's right up there in the tops 3/4.

For those who weren't able to follow him live, in terms of his impact on public imagination in India, he was a superstar. Think Amitabh Bachchan at his peak. It's hard to imagine the pressure he was under to bat consistently, simply because Indian fans believed that it was Gavaskar or bust.

At least with SRT for long part of his career, you knew that we had Dravid, Ganguly, Sehwag to tide us over. And as for the hype around SRT, Tendulkar operated at a time when media exploded, huge monies were pumped into cricket, and he repeated the benefits. Gavaskar? Respect to Vishy, Mohinder Amarnath, Vengsarkar (and later Azhar), but it wasn't the same.

Who's better (SRT or Sunny) is a different discussion, but for whoever wasn't following cricket back then, Gavaskar was Indian cricket, larger than life, revered.

i agree with rest of your post apart from the bolded portions. They are not true. Kapil Dev was definitely more revered and loved by Indian fans eventhough its beyond doubt Gavaskar was the greater player. In fact they had a well known rift at the time and as per many people who followed; a lot of it was due to Gavaskar allegedly being peeved off at the fact that despite being a significantly superior cricketer than Kapil Dev, he did not command the same fan following.
 
Gavaskar himself said that he wasnt fluid and couldnt play at a high tempo for long periods.

Anyways Imran Khan always said he was the batsman of the generation once Greg Chappell retired so clearly Gavaskar was among the best

Gavaskar is known for his self depreciating demeanor but he was no Dravid or Laxman.

His double hundred against England chasing 400 something was very much in the Virat Kohli class of tempo

Point to address here is that a lot of modern fans do not understand context in which many past players played.
 
Nice tribute from Inzi:

==


Dubai: A small tip from the legendary Sunil Gavaskar helped Inzamam-ul-Haq, former Pakistan captain, get rid of his difficulty in facing short-pitched balls forever - revealed the Pakistan stalwart.

Recalling the incident on Youtube channel, ‘Inzy’ said he was facing the problem during Pakistan team’s tour to England in 1992. “I went to England after 1992 World Cup at the back of a tremendous performance in the mega event. It was my first-ever tour to England. I didn’t have any idea as how should I play on those pitches. I was going through a bad patch as I was unable to play shortpitched deliveries,’’ he said.

Inzamam recalled that during a charity match, he came across the legendary Indian batsman and sought his advice to resolve that problem. “It was somewhere half of our season that I met him at a charity match in England. We both had gone to play that match. And I asked him ‘Sunil bhai I’m facing problems to play short-pitched balls, what should I do’?

“As great are the ways of the great, he told me to do only one little thing, that is, don’t think about short-pitched balls or bouncers while batting because the moment you’ll think about them you’ll get trapped. He told me that when the bowler would deliver the ball you would automatically understand; so don’t get worried about that.

“While in nets, I started practising the way he told me. I strengthened my mind, telling myself not to think about that [short-pitched balls]. The weakness was removed. And from 1992 till the time I retired, I never faced that problem again,” added the 50-year-old Inzamam, who amassed 8,830 runs in 120 Tests and 11739 runs in 378 ODIs.

Paying a glowing tribute to Gavaskar, who turned 71 on Friday, Inzy said: “I wish I would’ve seen him live while he was batting.”

He said by being the first person to score 10,000 runs in Test cricket, Gavaskar had opened the door for other batsmen to also reach that milestone. “There were several great players in his era as well as before that. There were batsmen like Javed Miandad, Viv Richards, Garry Sobers and Don Bradman but none of them thought to reach to the figure. Even in today’s cricket when there is too much Test cricket, there are very few players who’ve achieved that feat.”

Inzamam said in Gavaskar’s era there were hardly five to six Test matches [for a country] during the entire year as against the current scene when countries like Australia, England, South Africa and India had started to play even 10-12 matches in a year.

“If [as a batsman] your form is good you can even score 1000 to 1500 runs in a season. But when Sunil was batting, the situation was not like that. Today purely batting wickets are prepared so that you can continue scoring runs. The ICC also wants to see batsmen doing that so that spectators are entertained.

“But in the past wickets were not so easy to bat on, especially when you were playing outside the sub-continent.”

“Considering all that if you ask me, I’ll say Sunil’s 10,000 runs of that era are equal to today’s 15,000 to 16,000 runs. These can be more than that but not less in anyway.” Inzy signed off.

https://gulfnews.com/sport/cricket/...worth-much-more-now-inzamam-ul-haq-1.72553665
 
Former Pakistan captain Inzamam-ul-Haq lauded India legend Sunil Gavaskar, explaining how a piece of simple and short advice from the opener helped him overcome problems against short-pitched deliveries. Inzamam said he went on his first tour to England after a successful World Cup in 1992 in Australia and there he faced troubles handling short deliveries.

“I went to England after 1992 World Cup at the back of a tremendous performance in the mega event. It was my first-ever tour to England. I didn’t have any idea as how should I play on those pitches. I was going through a bad patch as I was unable to play short-pitched deliveries,’’ Inzamam said in his YouTube channel. Inzamam said he had met Sunil Gavaskar in a charity match during that England tour and sought for his help.

“It was somewhere half of our season that I met him at a charity match in England. We both had gone to play that match. And I asked him ‘Sunil bhai I’m facing problems to play short-pitched balls, what should I do’?

“As great are the ways of the great, he told me to do only one little thing, that is, ‘don’t think about short-pitched balls or bouncers while batting because the moment you’ll think about them you’ll get trapped’. He told me that when the bowler would deliver the ball you would automatically understand; so don’t get worried about that.”

The former Pakistan captain went on to add that he used Gavaskar’s advice and practiced in the nets. Inzamam said it worked and he never had any problems against the short ball till the time hung his boots.

“While in nets, I started practicing the way he told me. I strengthened my mind, telling myself not to think about that [short-pitched balls]. The weakness was removed. And from 1992 till the time I retired, I never faced that problem again,” added the 50-year-old Inzamam, who amassed 8,830 runs in 120 Tests and 11739 runs in 378 ODIs.

Paying a glowing tribute to Gavaskar, who turned 71 on Friday, Inzy said: “I wish I would’ve seen him live while he was batting.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...short-balls/story-7WSbvBimdNrDBDSCYm5XGM.html
 
i agree with rest of your post apart from the bolded portions. They are not true. Kapil Dev was definitely more revered and loved by Indian fans eventhough its beyond doubt Gavaskar was the greater player. In fact they had a well known rift at the time and as per many people who followed; a lot of it was due to Gavaskar allegedly being peeved off at the fact that despite being a significantly superior cricketer than Kapil Dev, he did not command the same fan following.

Fair enough. I wasn't intending to compare Kapil and Gavaskar, though, as part of my original premise, in terms of who was more loved or respected. But I understand that you naturally brought in Kapil followed from my Bachchan comparison - and you did so justifiably.

So if I were to expand my argument, I'm not sure who was more revered. I emphasise the word 'revered', not loved. Sunny was already an icon before Kapil came in, but then Kapil had a huge impact from the get go.

I would suspect that, as a player, Kapil was more loved than Gavaskar, but less revered than Gavaskar.

The distinction is a product of social norms. Gavaskar was urban, middle/ upper middle class, belonged to perhaps India's only cosmopolitan city at the time, spoke English well, carried himself with a hint of reserve, and was basically higher up in the Indian socio cultural scale than the Jat Kapil who struggled with his English, had a small town/ rural background.

It shouldn't matter, but it seemed to. Some fans will recall how people gently laughed at Kapil's accent in his "Palmolive da jawaab nahin" ad, and of course Kapil's "Rapidex English speaking course" ad. I need to emphasize, it was never mocking. He was a champion, was Kapil.

Times have changed since then but I'm talking of 1980s India.

As stated all the above is opinion

Side note:

I'll also note (as a corollary, not necessarily relevant to this dicussion), that Sunny and Kapil as contemporaries were a fascinating study in contrasts. Sunny was an ATG, who stood up in comparison head and shoulders above his opener peers across the globe, and in fact as a top 3 or 4 ATG.

But he also played one of the most disgraceful ODI innings.

On the other hand Kapil captained a wc win.

Kapil is also an ATG (IMO), who will probably rank very high in the all time all rounders list, but his 'misfortune' was that he played in an era of all rounder greats, a trend we have not seen since, and may not for a long time. Imran, Botham, Hadlee. Kapil's irony is that a timeless player isn't the premier player of his generation.
 
Bairstow also responded to criticism from India legend Sunil Gavaskar, who said he looked "uninterested" during the Test series, which England lost 3-1.

Rested for the first two Tests, Bairstow then registered three ducks in four innings as England lost the last two.

"I'm interested as to how that opinion could have been made, especially as there's been no correspondence or communication between myself and him," said Bairstow.

"He's more than welcome to give me a ring and I'll speak to him about my will to do well in Test cricket, and the enjoyment I do get out of playing Test cricket.

"My phone is on and if he does want to give
 
Sunil Gavaskar, who is regarded as one of the greatest batsmen the world has ever seen, turned 72 today, that is July 10. Famous as ‘little master’ among his fans, he is in the list of the finest cricketers that have played the sport. The champion ruled the batting charts in the time when cricket pitches were not batsman-friendly. His talent, fearless attitude, and the will to mount runs made him a threat to bowlers. He served the country for 16 years before bidding adieu in November 1987. Gavaskar holds various records batting records in the longest format of the game.

Here are some of the records by Gavaskar in Test cricket:

First to reach 10,000 runs: Gavaskar was the first cricketer to score 10,000 runs in Test cricket. The remarkable milestone was reached on 7th March 1987 in the Test match against Pakistan at Ahmedabad. On this day, he finished with 10,122 runs in Test cricket.

34 Centuries in Test cricket: Little master, for a pretty long time, ruled the list of most centuries. After playing 125 Test matches, he scored 34 centuries. Later, in 2005 the record was broken by ‘God of cricket’, Sachin Tendulkar.

13 centuries against West Indies: The 70s and 80s era is very special for West Indies as they were hard to defeat. But they happened to be Gavaskar’s favourite team when it came to smashing runs. In the 27 matches he played against them, he scored 13 centuries.

774 runs against West Indies: He is the only cricketer to score 774 runs against West Indies in a series.

First to carry the bat: Gavaskar was the first Indian to carry his bat throughout the innings in Faisalabad Test against Pakistan. He had scored 127* runs in that innings.

Topped the 1K charts four times: He is the only batsman who has for a record four times scored more than 1,000 runs in a calendar year.

Consistency at centuries: He is the only batsman in the world who has scored most consecutive centuries on two cricket grounds. He scored four consecutive centuries in both Port of Spain and Wankhede Stadium.

Century in taking catches: Gavaskar was an incredible batsman but also a shrewd fielder. Excluding the wicket keepers, he was the first Indian fielder to score a century in terms of catches in Test cricket. For the record, he has taken 108 catches in his Test career.

https://www.news18.com/cricketnext/...of-little-master-in-test-cricket-3946469.html
 
Per Wasim Akram, Sunny ranks higher than Sachin. Only if his only countrymen got behind him like they did with the curly hair shot guy.
 
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