How is England's 2019 World Cup win in the final not a fluke?

[Gullycricket]

England got Ross Taylor descion in their favour, Stokes got in the way and hurt Nz and then finally some stupid rules decide England is the champion when both teams scored same runs and NZ lost few wickets.How is this not fluking a WC.I mean Pakistan in CT17 won all games after losing to India.Here Eng stuttered in the middle of WC,lost to poor teams and umpiring went in their favour.Pak victory is called a fluke and this is not..How is that fair

 

[AdamM97]

According to some people, it's only a fluke if Pakistan wins anything.

 

[Chokli]

It is a fluke.

This victory will always have an asterisk beside it

 

[Hasan123]

England had luck. But the rule applies to both teams. Maybe for all there planning, this is the luck they get. In sport you can make your own luck. I wanted NZ to win, but I think some posters are coming across as bitter and sore losers.

 

[nextover666666]

England played good cricket and deserve to be their they lost in the start too because of some bad decision making James Vince and Mooen Ali after dropping these 2 it helped England and they started to use Plunkett more which was good to see

How ever I will say that how they won this final was a fluke this is what you call a fluke, first with the catch that Boult took and than touching the boundary rope, than they over throw which went for six runs and of course the super over being a tied and England winning on boundaries

 

[ak619]

It's a fluke. Most certainly.

I guess whatever was going to happen, England was destined to win today, by hook or crook.

 

[Aman]

Biggest fluke in the history of the sport that will never be matched again [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[Obaidd]

It’s not a fluke because they are the number 1 odi ranked team. The victory in the final based on boundaries scored cannot be justified however.

 

[PakPremi]

I normally say you dont win a tournament on a fluke, and even though England is my second team as I lived here most of my life I think the manner in which England won in the end was a fluke. Neither team deserved to lose though but I am glad England won.

 

[Mamoon]

England are best ODI team in the world. 9/10 times, this team would win the World Cup at home. This isn't a fluke by any means. Fluke is something that you will not be able to do again in the same circumstances, for example Pakistan winning the Champions Trophy as an 8th ranked side.

Did England get lucky today? Yes they did, but every team needs some luck to win a tournament. Besides, if any team deserves to be lucky, it is England, because they deserved to win this World Cup more than any team.

This is one of the most clutch teams in history and they have produced an amazing story.

 

[Mamoon]

All the talk of England being chokers and bottlers has been completely nuked. This team has balls of steel. What they have done in this World Cup under pressure is the stuff of gods.

 

[dildilpak]

All the talk of England being chokers and bottlers has been completely nuked. This team has balls of steel. What they have done in this World Cup under pressure is the stuff of gods.

Oh you mean Bat of God... agree with that

 

[Manager101]

This is the flukest of all flukes.

 

[Mueez]

All the talk of England being chokers and bottlers has been completely nuked. This team has balls of steel. What they have done in this World Cup under pressure is the stuff of gods.

England have transformed their game so much.

Gone are the days when they used to sh*t in their pants during pressure games.

With the inclusion of Woakes, Stokes, Buttler and Roy, this team has become mentally very strong.

It is not a joke to bounce back from 86-4.

Well done England - they deserved this victory.

 

[AdamM97]

All the talk of England being chokers and bottlers has been completely nuked. This team has balls of steel. What they have done in this World Cup under pressure is the stuff of gods.

Credit to England for winning the WC but they'll remain chokers and bottlers until they can win any major tournament(with the best team) in a convincing style(like a #1 ranked team should). England are still mental midgets and Root/Morgan are a proof of it.

 

[Ab Fan]

The biggest fluke in the history of sports..

How the hell that bat of God worked in Ben Stokes favour and went for four.. This is farcical.. There is nothing unfortunate in cricket than this.. Absolutely nothing.. Then the super over also got tied out.. Oh, what else you do to win a match..

Hitting more boundaries is absolutely illogical. Nobody plays cricket that way. Yes, England deserved to win the WC but I am sorry, if you are England fan, you don't want to win this way.

 

[Cric1234]

Overall they deserve it Pakistan rode a hot streak for several matches with a few unexposed players catching out other teams England have been more dominant and played well for a while.

The final was definitely lucky though they did choke by not getting home after needing 3 off 2 whilst riding their luck throughout the final overs and then had to rely on other factors by tieing the super over.

 

[Mamoon]

Credit to England for winning the WC but they'll remain chokers and bottlers until they can convincingly win any major tournament(with the best team). England are still mental midgets and Root/Morgan are a proof of it.

The team matters, not the individuals. Not every player in the winning team is going to perform on the day of the final.

England have proved their mettle. If People don't want to admit that they were wrong in calling them chokers etc., it is their choice.

 

[aloo paratha]

If Pakistan wins in 1992 and 2017 were flukes, i don't even think there's a word to describe what happened over the past 7 weeks.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

It's a huge fluke. Absolute bull****.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] needs to get a life and stop thumping england's fluke while downplaying Pak's wins.

 

[ak619]

Did England get lucky today? Yes they did, but every team needs some luck to win a tournament.

Problem is they required way too much luck today to "win" this match.

When luck plays such a massive part of your victory, there will always be a bad aftertaste left in everyone's mouth. It's just human nature.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are a number of Englishmen and women who are feeling rather weird about this victory and aren't quite able to celebrate this victory full-heartedly.

 

[aloo paratha]

England had luck. But the rule applies to both teams. Maybe for all there planning, this is the luck they get. In sport you can make your own luck. I wanted NZ to win, but I think some posters are coming across as bitter and sore losers.

Except no team lost the match. It was a tie decided on boundaries.

 

[warcry]

the biggest fluke i ever saw.

1) couldnt win a game in the full fifty overs, saved literally by the biggest fluke i ever on tv, ie the ball hitting stokes bat and going to the boundary.

how that is allowed in the game, proves that the rules of the game are garbage

2) couldnt win the game in the super over either.
declared the winner because of some garbage rule on more boundaries scored.

this is the biggest fluke in cricket history hands down.

i hope they get thrashed in the ashes, but that is extremely unlikely.

 

[andy0204]

The team matters, not the individuals. Not every player in the winning team is going to perform on the day of the final.

England have proved their mettle. If People don't want to admit that they were wrong in calling them chokers etc., it is their choice.

i will only agree they are the best team if they beat the opposition in finals by beating fair and square not by rules.

 

[Hasan123]

Except no team lost the match. It was a tie decided on boundaries.

Ok. But England won the World Cup that’s all that matters. We need to stop being so bitter. I don’t like the rules, but they are there. They had luck but sometimes you need luck.

I don’t want to come across as bitter like some posters.

 

[AdamM97]

Ok. But England won the World Cup that’s all that matters. We need to stop being so bitter. I don’t like the rules, but they are there. They had luck but sometimes you need luck.

I don’t want to come across as bitter like some posters.

Why would some Pakistanis be bitter? NZ were the better team today and it hurts seeing them lose in this way, nothing do with bitterness.

 

[gazza619]

If NZ had won it would have been a fluke. They are a low rank team and batted poorly throughout the tournament.

England were a top before the WC. Truly deserved the win, and this is brilliant for the game.

 

[aloo paratha]

Ok. But England won the World Cup that’s all that matters. We need to stop being so bitter. I don’t like the rules, but they are there. They had luck but sometimes you need luck.

I don’t want to come across as bitter like some posters.

Well then we may as well shut the forum down if we can't discuss problems in the tournament.

 

[Hasan123]

Well then we may as well shut the forum down if we can't discuss problems in the tournament.

You can discuss it without being bitter.

 

[Hasan123]

Why would some Pakistanis be bitter? NZ were the better team today and it hurts seeing them lose in this way, nothing do with bitterness.

In your opinion they were better. With the bat they limped to 240. Buttler out batted all of NZ. CDG was No best bowler. Woakes, Archer, and Plunkett were excellent.

England played good cricket, NZ did in parts. They had luck go against them, but it’s a myth that it was a world class performance by NZ.

 

[aloo paratha]

You can discuss it without being bitter.

How is that being bitter? They literally did not win the match

 

[Hasan123]

How is that being bitter? They literally did not win the match

I’m not on about you.

But a lot of posters seem really bitter that England won. They had luck, but in the end they got over the line.

 

[ManFan]

Both teams equally deserved it.

I think it just raises questions when the winner is decided on a dumb technicality.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

No win is ever a fluke.

The record books reflect a win as a win and a loss as a loss.

Moral victories are for losers. Don't think NZ think that way - it was small margins.

But sure as heck our misguided supporters, brought up on doses of unpredictability tags and cornered tigers syndrome think that way.

 

[Zaz]

They certainly had luck on their side today but it certainly was no fluke

Theyve been the best odi team for the last 2-3 years and fully deserved to be in the final

 

[aloo paratha]

I’m not on about you.

But a lot of posters seem really bitter that England won. They had luck, but in the end they got over the line.

I agree with you. I don;t agree with the rules but at the end of the day, they did win fair and square. Do you agree though that the boundaries rule is a bit of a farce? Do you agree that there should just be super overs until a result?

 

[Hasan123]

England had luck that is clear. But I am a big believer you make your own luck in sport. England have prepared and selected the right players for LO finally. They played convincingly in bilaterals and since the Sri Lanka defeat.

I wanted NZ to win. But I have to admit that in the England got the luck which there preparation deserved. Which ever team win would have earned it.

This is my opinion. Other posters can be bitter . That is fine. But I don't see a point in being bitter. England won. No amount of complaining will change that.

 

[Hasan123]

Also to add , the rules aren't England's fault. They are stupid but they are there. They are known before games and tournaments. Unfair to bash England for them.

 

[Hasan123]

I agree with you. I don;t agree with the rules but at the end of the day, they did win fair and square. Do you agree though that the boundaries rule is a bit of a farce? Do you agree that there should just be super overs until a result?

The boundary rule is pathetic . I would like an explanation why is bouandires the tie breaker .

I would prefer another super over. It's just one over anyway.

I think it is unfair to bash England for the rules. The ICC need to be answering these questions why are these rules in place ?

 

[Technics 1210]

The fact is England did NOT beat NZ, but England won a tie breaker.

This victory was the flukiest of them all. No one bats in a final counting the number of boundaries hit, do they?

Deal with it.

 

[PakFan764]

England are best ODI team in the world. 9/10 times, this team would win the World Cup at home. This isn't a fluke by any means. Fluke is something that you will not be able to do again in the same circumstances, for example Pakistan winning the Champions Trophy as an 8th ranked side.

Did England get lucky today? Yes they did, but every team needs some luck to win a tournament. Besides, if any team deserves to be lucky, it is England, because they deserved to win this World Cup more than any team.

This is one of the most clutch teams in history and they have produced an amazing story.

Looks like you don't know the definition of a "fluke".

Fluke is when you win due to luck not due to your abilities.

This was a fluke but the deserving winners won in the end.

 

[rhony]

The boundary rule is pathetic . I would like an explanation why is bouandires the tie breaker .

I would prefer another super over. It's just one over anyway.

I think it is unfair to bash England for the rules. The ICC need to be answering these questions why are these rules in place ?

Earlier "wickets lost" was the criteria. However, people thought it doesn't matter how many wickets teams lost as long as they reach the target. In T20s, boundaries are part of the entertainment. Super over is a T20 export and hence the boundary rule was exported along with it to ODIs. The idea is the most entertaining team gets an advantage with the boundaries being part of that entertainment.

 

[tyron_woodley]

biggest joke and fluke ever. pathetic english side. They will never win again. rejoice and cherish this moment.

 

[Salma_T]

Luck, rub of the green, line calls going your way that is what happens in sports. If you watch any major match in any sport you will notice it. Was the win a fluke no, were Pakistan's win a fluke no it is just the ebbs and flow of sport.

 

[tyron_woodley]

they should have lost the match based on scores alone lmao. all out 241.
n.z were 241/8.

 

[PakLFC]

England deserved to be in the final. Today they had their lucky moments no doubt about it at all. We can also argue that NZ were lucky to be in the final as well after going through on run rate. Had England lost we'd be saying how lucky NZ was, that is how close the match was.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

The fact is England did NOT beat NZ, but England won a tie breaker.

This victory was the flukiest of them all. No one bats in a final counting the number of boundaries hit, do they?

Deal with it.

I think if you look in the newspapers tomorrow you will see England did beat NZ. I think that is the “fact” you are referring to

 

[Chokli]

Golmal Hai Bai Sab Golmal Hai

 

[aloo paratha]

The boundary rule is pathetic . I would like an explanation why is bouandires the tie breaker .

I would prefer another super over. It's just one over anyway.

I think it is unfair to bash England for the rules. The ICC need to be answering these questions why are these rules in place ?

Yep. As I said in another thread, runs are runs whether they came in boundaries or through singles, runs are runs whether they were scored with 1 wicket down or 10 wickets down. The fairest way to determine the winner was to go for another super over.

It hurts though because I've always been a kiwis fan. If a NZ loss is hurting me so much how much would a Pakistan loss hurt

 

[angeldsoul]

THE BIGGEST JOKE HERE
Is mamoon calling this england side clutch!!!! lolol an all time clutch. This is the most laughable thing I have ever had. Trying to compare this to the old aussie demolition teams of past!! England cant really handle pressure and faltered if they had won the super over i might be impressed....lolol this england side can hold some nerve but thats it. It was 99% luck today. they lost 3 times in this world cup and tied one all while chasing...no clutch here till they win big knockouts chasing big scores till then they are just pretenders

 

[Aman]

THE BIGGEST JOKE HERE
Is mamoon calling this england side clutch!!!! lolol an all time clutch. This is the most laughable thing I have ever had. Trying to compare this to the old aussie demolition teams of past!! England cant really handle pressure and faltered if they had won the super over i might be impressed....lolol this england side can hold some nerve but thats it. It was 99% luck today. they lost 3 times in this world cup and tied one all while chasing...no clutch here till they win big knockouts chasing big scores till then they are just pretenders

How can they be clutch?

They didn't even beat us with everything going their way this game...

 

[Madplayer]

How can they be clutch?

They didn't even beat us with everything going their way this game...

This was the biggest fluke win ever in the history of sports entertainment. The English side had to change their trousers muliple times during their innings. Kiwis are the real winners here and were undefeated in the match.

 

[babubengali14]

Wow! People are getting their hatred of the England team (not sure why) and bitterness for their teams not reaching the final, come in the way of common sense and a understanding of the game and it’s rules.

 

[babubengali14]

The win today could be termed ‘lucky’, but you also make your own luck. England were brave in the way they handled the run chase on a difficult wicket and Stokes was of course phenomenal (what a redemption story, on and off the field!). In no way was this a “fluke”. England were favorites, and the favorites won. By definition not a fluke!!

 

[Napa]

Credit to England for winning the WC but they'll remain chokers and bottlers until they can win any major tournament(with the best team) in a convincing style(like a #1 ranked team should). England are still mental midgets and Root/Morgan are a proof of it.

Mental midgets don't score 14 runs in the last over to tie the scores and take it to extra time.

 

[Napa]

The win today could be termed ‘lucky’, but you also make your own luck. England were brave in the way they handled the run chase on a difficult wicket and Stokes was of course phenomenal (what a redemption story, on and off the field!). In no way was this a “fluke”. England were favorites, and the favorites won. By definition not a fluke!!

Well said... from one Bengali Babu to another

 

[babubengali14]

So which team in your opinion aren’t “chokers”? Clearly can’t be any team that did not make the final today? Right? And England today, by the thinnest of margins but they won! So not sure I understand how that makes them chokers? Maybe they choked the least out of all 10 teams? Otherwise your comment doesn’t make much sense.

 

[CricFan2012]

All the talk of England being chokers and bottlers has been completely nuked. This team has balls of steel. What they have done in this World Cup under pressure is the stuff of gods.

I really enjoyed Englands win and was one of the few neutrals who wanted the British to win, but it was a fluke, they got so lucky with that six overthrow, its incredible, no fluke will ever surpass this.

 

[Aman]

So which team in your opinion aren’t “chokers”? Clearly can’t be any team that did not make the final today? Right? And England today, by the thinnest of margins but they won! So not sure I understand how that makes them chokers? Maybe they choked the least out of all 10 teams? Otherwise your comment doesn’t make much sense.

They didn't win, the match was tied and England won the WC based on boundaries.

 

[babubengali14]

Really? I was sure I saw Morgan lift the trophy?

 

[babubengali14]

The point is, England won the “tie breaker”. And hence the match and the World Cup. The rule for this tie breaker was set well in advance, not set during the match or at the end to “award” England the match.

 

[Red Devil]

Fluke: an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck.

If you think this wasn't a fluke, then you're plain stupid.

 

[Justcrazy]

If you look into last 4 years , you will understand that it was not a fluke.

Poms had taken some very strong decisions , and never lost belief in there plan and brand of cricket .

 

[Madplayer]

The point is, England won the “tie breaker”. And hence the match and the World Cup. The rule for this tie breaker was set well in advance, not set during the match or at the end to “award” England the match.

Nobody is blaming England mate. Everyone is saying how stupid the rules are. Of overthrows and of deciding a world cup winner based on 4s and 6s. ICC are being blamed. Not England.

 

[Gullycricket]

Just want to add if NZ won in this manner,PHD thesis would have been prepared on how they fluked the final.Its not about being bitter.You win on brilliance,no body questions but this was a joke.I don't question any teams win if they win with brilliance and also you need luck but can't help but feel NZ hard done by.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Winning by number of boundaries has to be the most hollow victory of all time. Too bad for England that's how they won the World Cup.

 

[The_KING]

A lot of non cricket fans think that cricket is a joke sport. And it’s hard to not agree with them, when a World Cup final is being decided by the number of boundaries hit by each time. Can you imagine a football World Cup final being decided by the number of shots on goal during the match? No! This has to be most ridiculous way of winning a World Cup. ICC are a joke!

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

It is a fluke.

This victory will always have an asterisk beside it

Can you even call it a victory? It's not like England won against New Zealand. If scoring the higher number of boundaries is any credible measure than Afridi was the greatest batsman of his generation.

 

[Itachi]

I didn't think any fluke would surpass the CT final but to my astonishment, the world cup fluke is even bigger fluke than the CT.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Mental midgets don't score 14 runs in the last over to tie the scores and take it to extra time.

They only scored 10, they got 4 off overthrows off the bat which is ridiculous )

 

[Adijazz1706]

I didn't think any fluke would surpass the CT final but to my astonishment, the world cup fluke is even bigger fluke than the CT.

The CT final was a fluke only if you consider the rankings and the group stage match, the match itself was completely 1-sided. Rankings and group match wise this isn't a fluke at all

 

[shane]

I don't think it is fair to call it a fluke but the result will always be taken with a pinch of salt. And not because of the tie-breaker rule but because of those overthrows. And it is nobody's fault.

 

[Fahdi]

To win the WC on a technicality. A shared trophy would have been better than this.

 

[Mean&Green]

All the talk of England being chokers and bottlers has been completely nuked. This team has balls of steel. What they have done in this World Cup under pressure is the stuff of gods.

Ur clearly doing Shirk their first of all. Second this team isn’t clutch at all lmao. They are not the ones with nerves of steels but the kiwis are. Boult is always calm under extreme pressure the run out the catches in this tense situation they were the clutch ones. Their captain is cool as ice as well. Also their sub fielder came in and took an extraordinary catch in that crunch situation. They didn’t even show much emotion after losing because they are mentally so strong. England were crumbling they completely choked butler is a choker he got his team into a winning position and choked right when it mattered he also did that against Pakistan as well so it’s not a one off. Jason Roy was fumbling the ball in the super over that is pressure because he’s an outstanding fielder. So before you go on about their fake clutchness they ain’t clutch for s h it they just got extremely extremely lucky today.

 

[jagatk]

To win the WC on a technicality. A shared trophy would have been better than this.

They did not win on a technicality they won because the umpires are stupid. The laws say it should have been 5 runs not 6.

 

[amvbfm]

Real travesty that a tournament that lasted 6 weeks and 48 games was decided on a super over (perhaps ok for T20 cricket but certainly not relevant for anything else) and then the number of boundaries. While it is debatable which team deserved to lift the trophy, it is certainly clear that the rules which might have been fit for a T20 final, tainted England's win. Before T20 cricket, such ties were usually decided by the number of wickets and that is a way better method of deciding a tie than a one over shootout which is absolutely unrelated to what went before. Will we next see the ICC test championship being decided by a super over? Else, England could've been declared winners on account of their position on the points table without the farce of a super over and that result would have still been way more legitimate (albeit still questionable after that deflected overthrow). However, ICC's obsession of turning everything into a T20 has taken the sheen off what was one of the greatest games of ODI cricket ever.

Was this a fluke? If we only consider the final then it undoubtedly was, but in the larger context England deserved to win more than NZ. Also, had NZ won, their victory might also have been labeled as fluky by many given the way they scraped through to the semis.

 

[hur rizvi]

Fluke is a lesser word for this it was a genuine miracle. They were destined to become World champions

 

[Cricket lover 27]

England are best ODI team in the world. 9/10 times, this team would win the World Cup at home. This isn't a fluke by any means. Fluke is something that you will not be able to do again in the same circumstances, for example Pakistan winning the Champions Trophy as an 8th ranked side.

Did England get lucky today? Yes they did, but every team needs some luck to win a tournament. Besides, if any team deserves to be lucky, it is England, because they deserved to win this World Cup more than any team.

This is one of the most clutch teams in history and they have produced an amazing story.

To be honest this World Cup just proved that when it’s not a flat pitch England’s batsmen can even lose to a team like Sri Lanka and make a seemingly easy chase difficult. Yesterday’s chase of 240 should have been easy for this mighty batting line up and had luck not gone their way they would have probably lost.

There was nothing clutch about the team yesterday.

 

[Kianig89]

not sure about fluke but Eng were definitely lucky and infact NZ didnt lost it its a tie a tie

 

[RamLakhan]

Instead of debating on fluke, rules, luck, etc, as neutrals we should enjoy the great game of cricket which we witnessed!