How long have the Australians been ball-tampering for?

[IMMY69]

Just want an YES or NO answer: Is it impossible to master the art of reverse swing without ball-tampering?

YES

I know you only wanted a yes or no answer but...

You maintain the shine on one side and keep the other side bone dry. So players who have sweaty hands should not be touching the ball...

Those who are expert at will take advantage of ball getting scuffed up earlier.
Stuffing up doesn’t necessary mean using your nails, it can scuff up due to the abrasive wicket or outfield or even by the ball hitting the advertisement hordings.

I’ve played in teams where ball has reversed without using any illegal means.

Pakistan we’re naturally good at it as the players grew up on on dry abrasive wickets..

A ball can start reversing naturally too. Listen to Holdings older interviews and even Ian Bothams interview about the famous 81 Ashes series when he clearly said that the ball started reversing in his third spell.

Reverse swing can happen naturally or by maintaining the ball BUT the moment you start using substances then that for me is cheating..

 

[MRSN]

Martin Crowe and his team have definitively admitted to tampering, that would have been an apt example of tampering incidents in the game.

Any such definitive statement from Imran Khan about his international career? At least you've acquitted Sarfaraz in the space of one post, seeing as there's no evidence he tampered - it would be pretty naïve to condemn people based on personal beliefs and hunches instead of evidence, wouldn't it?

IK won the historical case against Botham on ball tampering allegations.

 

[DRsohail]

And some posters feel sorry for smith. Lolz

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is not simple ball tampering. This is a systemic policy to cheat. Hell lot of a difference. They were caught in the DRS case now Sandpaper gate. God knows what other under hand tactic has gone undetected. This needs a thorough icc investigation.

 

[DRsohail]

This is not simple ball tampering. This is a systemic policy to cheat. Hell lot of a difference. They were caught in the DRS case now Sandpaper gate. God knows what other under hand tactic has gone undetected. This needs a thorough icc investigation.

These Aussies consider themselves above the law.i am sure they have won many matches because of this.

 

[cricketjoshila]

These Aussies consider themselves above the law.i am sure they have won many matches because of this.

Yes. This lehmann and smith combo appear as very unscrulous duo along with Warner.
[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]


Can you change the thread topic to hiw long have australia been using unfair means? So that we can discuss other events also or should i create a new thread?

 

[MenInG]

Yes. This lehmann and smith combo appear as very unscrulous duo along with Warner.

[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]


Can you change the thread topic to hiw long have australia been using unfair means? So that we can discuss other events also or should i create a new thread?

You can discuss here

 

[cricketjoshila]

You can discuss here

Thanks.

Your opinion on this? DRS gate, Sandpaper gate, shouldnt the icc investigate this?

 

[IndianFan2018]

Sandpaper Gate has opened can of worms for Ozzie's. Very difficult for AUS Leadership Group to come out of this black mark.

Every match under Smith-Lehman combo where reverse swing was involved will be seen with doubt. Already Stuart Broad has questioned publicly recent Ashes Tests where reverse swing was evident...

 

[big_gamer007]

Martin Crowe and his team have definitively admitted to tampering, that would have been an apt example of tampering incidents in the game.

Any such definitive statement from Imran Khan about his international career? At least you've acquitted Sarfaraz in the space of one post, seeing as there's no evidence he tampered - it would be pretty naïve to condemn people based on personal beliefs and hunches instead of evidence, wouldn't it?

There are plenty of threads here where people have posted links of IK admitting to using bottle caps and tampering.. A quick google search should also show the results..

Just because there were less cameras that time players didn’t get caught means tampering did not happen.. You can choose to not believe something did not happen unless you get hard evidence that is upto you and I respect that opinion.

 

[Mamoon]

I have never seen or heard any tampering part of Bangladesh since BD started playing cricket. probably our boys should learn this art in their arsenal so they can pull out of more upsets against big teams.

Bangladesh haven't had skillful enough pacers to make use of reverse-swing.

 

[Mamoon]

What parallel universe do you live in? Our cricket team has stayed away far from controversy since the spot fixing scandal in 2010. For the past 8 years, the Pakistani team has been praised by commentators and players alike for showing good sportsmanship wherever they play and they have stayed far away from controversy for the most part under Misbah's leadership. The team under Safaraz hasn't been involved in any major cricketing scandals either. Pakistan and New Zealand are 2 teams in the past decade that have played the game with more integrity than any other teams. Any claims of them playing against the spirit of cricket are purely fictitious on your part and shows how delusional you are.

Yes, quite convenient of you to use the 2010 as a cut-off point so that we can ignore the spot-fixers. However, even then, you have conveniently ignore the chuckers that we have produced in the last few years.

For example, a so-called pioneer of playing the game with integrity would not allow someone like Hafeez to continue to throw the ball deliberately.

Nonetheless, we do not need to use any particular cut-off period to make a point. Our history is littered with examples. Ball-tampering, match-fixing, chucking etc. Pakistan have made a mockery of the spirit of cricket as much as any other team.

 

[Mamoon]

As I've posted earlier, the first major tampering incident was John Lever's Vaseline episode.

We're inventors of reverse swing, not tampering. Reverse swing is a completely legitimate skill that requires the hard grind of shining one side meticulously - a practice that that is ingrained in Pakistani cricketers from club cricket.

Tampering is a short-cut to achieving reverse swing, and those resorting to such short-cuts are eventually exposed - Lever, Atherton, Afridi, Du Plessis, Dravid, Martin Crowe, and many others, and now Bancroft (and the leadership group).

As for your suggestion that the culpability of the few somehow proves that everyone must be (and always has been) in on it, this must be your most illogical and embarrassing effort yet.

Pakistan's history of tampering the ball with bottle caps is well-documented.

Sarfraz, Imran, Wasim and Waqar - four biggest pioneers of reverse-swing of all time - are all guilty of it. However, we can whitewash our past and revise history if we want.

The notion that du Plessis, Anderson, Bancroft etc. are the only examples of ball-tampers in recent years because they are the only ones who were caught in the act is both naive and absurd.

Both ball-tampering is more common than we choose to believe.

 

[hur rizvi]

It's about time to allow ball tempering (Conditioning) without using unfair means. Like allow throwing the ball on bounce.

And then take strict action on using unfair means for tempering

 

[MenInG]

Former Australian skipper Ricky Ponting believes the Steve Smith-led side did not have enough experienced players to say "no" and as a result they were involved in the infamous Cape Town ball-tampering scandal which took place in 2018. According to Ponting, the road leading Australia to the Newlands scandal had started years before when he became fearful of a decline in the level of senior experience around the national team.

"I was a bit worried that with a lot of the experience going out of our team at the same time, that there would be a bit of a void left with experienced players to be able to say 'no' basically," Ponting was quoted as saying by ESPNcricinfo during a fund-raising dinner for the Chappell Foundation at the SCG.

"If I look at where things got at Cape Town, I just don't think there were enough people around that team to say 'no' to some of those guys. Things got completely out of control.

"That's very much an outsider's view on it. I had nothing to do with the team really until the last couple of years around some T20 cricket and the World Cup last year," he added.

In March 2018, during the third Test match against South Africa at Newlands in Cape Town, Cameron Bancroft was caught by television cameras trying to rough up one side of the ball with sandpaper to make it reverse. Following the incident, Smith and David Warner were handed a one-year suspension by Cricket Australia while Bancroft was banned for nine months.

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/ric...e-reason-behind-sandpaper-gate-fiasco-2179635

 

[silentkiller187]

Over the years every team has probably tried it at some point, some are just better than others at it. I can assure you 80% of bowlers would not know where to start if you gave them a ball and a sandpaper sheet. Tampering is a skill in itself. waqar and wasim shared their knowledge with a lot of english players during their time in county cricket, many ex English pros will tell you themselves they had the knowledge but still could not execute it, probably why they were left behind in the 90's/00's odi. .

 

[Kaka4pope]

Former Australian skipper Ricky Ponting believes the Steve Smith-led side did not have enough experienced players to say "no" and as a result they were involved in the infamous Cape Town ball-tampering scandal which took place in 2018. According to Ponting, the road leading Australia to the Newlands scandal had started years before when he became fearful of a decline in the level of senior experience around the national team.

"I was a bit worried that with a lot of the experience going out of our team at the same time, that there would be a bit of a void left with experienced players to be able to say 'no' basically," Ponting was quoted as saying by ESPNcricinfo during a fund-raising dinner for the Chappell Foundation at the SCG.

"If I look at where things got at Cape Town, I just don't think there were enough people around that team to say 'no' to some of those guys. Things got completely out of control.

"That's very much an outsider's view on it. I had nothing to do with the team really until the last couple of years around some T20 cricket and the World Cup last year," he added.

In March 2018, during the third Test match against South Africa at Newlands in Cape Town, Cameron Bancroft was caught by television cameras trying to rough up one side of the ball with sandpaper to make it reverse. Following the incident, Smith and David Warner were handed a one-year suspension by Cricket Australia while Bancroft was banned for nine months.

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/ric...e-reason-behind-sandpaper-gate-fiasco-2179635

Great isn't it, how some teams are afforded the right to such eloquent explanations as to why they screwed up.

 

[therealAB]

Great isn't it, how some teams are afforded the right to such eloquent explanations as to why they screwed up.

It was a horrible act, but punishment was high and we should move on. Will impact Smith's general legacy, but should not impact how we see him as a batsman

 

[Junaids]

If you recall, I attended the NZ v Australia Test at Wellington two years ago.

NZ was dismissed for 180 on a Day 1 greentop.

The grass was dead by the end of that innings and Australia replied with 560 on a flat deck where the outfield was billiard table green, so no scuffing or Reverse was possible.

NZ then cruised to 180-3 before Mitch Marsh turned into Waqar Younis and started reversing the ball round corners.

Ever since, Australia has obtained highly suspicious degrees of reverse swing around the world.

I believe that you can only reverse a doctored ball. And Australia did not just start at lunchtime yesterday.

Ponting is telling half the story.

Steve Smith’s personality flaws (basically he is obsessed with his own batting) meant that he was a weak and self-marginalised captain.

This suited Darren Lehmann as Head Coach right down to the ground, and like Misbah currently in Pakistan he wielded more power than the captain, which is very rare in international cricket.

The Handscomb Video proves beyond reasonable doubt that Lehmann was running the operation. I had seen the sandpaper operation since the Wellington Test of 2 years earlier ( [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] is completely right about reverse not being normal in New Zealand) and indeed in the PakPassion Durban Test thread two matches before Australia was caught I wrote that the Aussies were obtaining suspiciously early and extravagant reverse swing.

The reason why I object to the respect and admiration shown to Warner and Smith since their return, and to the four NSW bowlers, is because the Aussies continue to admit only to a fraction of their offences, and have never been punished for what they really did.

This was not “normal” ball tampering. This was an industrial-strength cheating operation, identical to Lance Armstrong’s doping or Olympique Marseille’s referee bribing operation.

 

[MMHS]

Ponting is telling half the story.

Steve Smith’s personality flaws (basically he is obsessed with his own batting) meant that he was a weak and self-marginalised captain.

This suited Darren Lehmann as Head Coach right down to the ground, and like Misbah currently in Pakistan he wielded more power than the captain, which is very rare in international cricket.

The Handscomb Video proves beyond reasonable doubt that Lehmann was running the operation. I had seen the sandpaper operation since the Wellington Test of 2 years earlier ( [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] is completely right about reverse not being normal in New Zealand) and indeed in the PakPassion Durban Test thread two matches before Australia was caught I wrote that the Aussies were obtaining suspiciously early and extravagant reverse swing.

The reason why I object to the respect and admiration shown to Warner and Smith since their return, and to the four NSW bowlers, is because the Aussies continue to admit only to a fraction of their offences, and have never been punished for what they really did.

This was not “normal” ball tampering. This was an industrial-strength cheating operation, identical to Lance Armstrong’s doping or Olympique Marseille’s referee bribing operation.

EACH & EVERYONE related to Australian national team, starting from the CEO of Cricket Australia to the trainers of the national team knew exactly what they were doing, what they wanted to achieve and how they'll cover it up. The fall back plan was also well scripted long before and they knew exactly what to be done to protect their pacers. I haven't seen what was in Hashcomb's video but this is very similar to the $60 fine imposed on Warne & Mark Waugh 25 years back ..... that time also, Dean Jones was a spent force, hence he wasn't given the favor.

This time, Aussies gave Smith & Warner a little slap on the arm to cover-up, let Lehman go free because he accepted to take the blame for a good pay day and had he opened mouth, it could have gone out of control while Sponsors forced the CEO out of his job, while ICC/ECB kept silent. India/BCCI is out of their cage now, hence if it was India, they would have got away with it, but any of PAK, BD or SRL team caught in same act .... it won't have ended with few players banned for a year. Even then, 20 years back what Mike Dennese did to Indian team should suggest what is waiting for other Asian teams in this regard.

I always believed Aussies are filthy mouth in cricket, but they play the game die hard, they play with skill, passion, aggression and integrity - I won't use that last word for them any more. This little is probably their only loss - rest were well managed.