How many PPers here are from the Indian side of Kashmir?

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

indian govt recently trying to change the ratio of Kashmir's population demography by bringing peoples from other parts of india particularly from punjab & himachel & helping them to settle there permanently, I know that this will not work rapidly but with the passage of time this will work surely as they can held election & referendum on the basis of this demo-graphical change to show the world that Kasmiris want to live under india law & constitution.

My question to Io Kashmiris bro/sis that

are you aware of this???
Do you see any strangers settled in your surroundings from other part of india???
Do you have any plans on community basis for not to settle them??? I dnt want you to disclose the plan if is there

I personally advice to do the things in different dimension & directions

. boycott them financially (not to sale/purchase with them this will not let them to settle their businesses here)
. boycott them socially (do not let them to involve & moving freely among you they should be feel like strangers every where)
. make them feel like untouchables (this is offensive but its not a new thing in india so make them to eat their own medicine, I am sure this will work)
. dnt let your kids to play & study with their kids
. make them to feel isolated on your festivals where peoples gather & joy.

plz plz dnt use weapons & keep away from violence

Lol what do you mean by strangers living there? As long as kashmir is part of india any indian can go and live there they don't need a visa. Same way kashmiri people can go to any part of india. And i hope this is the case in pakistani kashmir too. Any pakistani can go there and live.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Ok.... i read op and thanks for seeking my opinion [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] and op as well...First of all i don't think you should ask much about my self as my username says it all....
Veiws of kash are totally different from indians (especially of non muslims in india and more especially of hindus)....we love pakistanis from the core of our hearts more coz of our beloved religion(muslman ko muslman ki dard hamesha hoti hai chahe woh jaha b ho especially pak coz we feel we should have been with pak instead if india) and especially due to indian oppression in kashmir because we don't want to be indians anymore as we feel ashamed....we want independence and 2nd preference is PAKISTAN ...All people here support pak in all sports except some folks unfortunately who are puppets of national conference becoz of their leader farooq abdullah who is pakka indian himself.
As for as language is concerned urdu is our 2nd mother tongue learned it from schools and we have also learnt hindi to speak not to read and write except some...and almost 80-85% civilians never visited pak or pak occupied kashmir as indian govt has made tough process for us to get visa of pak....
we are really pak cricket crazy people here and follows pak cricket keenly as our elders who don't have interest in cricket always says us what these cricketers are giving us of watching their matches and we says love.
Believe me we truly love this nation and follows it in all spheres especially cricket... hockey ....politics
And special thanks to pak passion to provide us opportunity to talk to pakistanis
thanks

You love paksitan. You want independence too. What about indian muslims? Are they not muslims? Please tell what exactly happened that makes you think like that. Any bad incidence? Give us the reason. Otherwise i will assume you just want to be part of the bandwagon without even knowing what's causing it.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Are you the same guy who was dressing up like a hulk holding both indian and paksitani flags during a match. Taking pictures with both indians and pakistanis trying to unite both of them. What happened now? Why this hate now? Or was that a drama? Sorry if you are not that guy though.

That is me.

I like the Indian people and the country having been around India.

However, I have Kashmiri blood; and that is a view I hold- that Kashmiris should have a chance to determine their future.

I have Indian friends who I get on with really well; that's separate to my political view.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Kashmir is an unfinished part of partition. Different scenario

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

That is me.

I like the Indian people and the country having been around India.

However, I have Kashmiri blood; and that is a view I hold- that Kashmiris should have a chance to determine their future.

I have Indian friends who I get on with really well; that's separate to my political view.

Didn't know you were from kashmir. Thanks. Just wanted to clear my confusion. Ofcourse you are entitled to have your own opinion on kashmir.

 

[MSaad1237]

Kashmir 'Atoot Ang' of Hindustan is the most Ridiculous and Outrageous thing I've ever heard, even as a Pakistani it boils my blooddown imagine how'd Kashmirs feel about it .

 

[Ali1984]

Azad Kashmiris can purchase land or property in Pakistan but Pakistanis cannot buy land or property in azad Kashmir.


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[Ali1984]

Azad Kashmiris can purchase land or property in Pakistan but Pakistanis cannot buy land or property in azad Kashmir. To buy property or land in Kashmir, heritage or birth in azad Kashmir is a necessity. And before anyone says anything I'm Pakistani aswell as Kashmiri to me it don't matter one land one nation. #bleed green!




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[Gabbar Singh]

indian govt recently trying to change the ratio of Kashmir's population demography by bringing peoples from other parts of india particularly from punjab & himachel & helping them to settle there permanently, I know that this will not work rapidly but with the passage of time this will work surely as they can held election & referendum on the basis of this demo-graphical change to show the world that Kasmiris want to live under india law & constitution.

My question to Io Kashmiris bro/sis that

are you aware of this???
Do you see any strangers settled in your surroundings from other part of india???
Do you have any plans on community basis for not to settle them??? I dnt want you to disclose the plan if is there

I personally advice to do the things in different dimension & directions

. boycott them financially (not to sale/purchase with them this will not let them to settle their businesses here)
. boycott them socially (do not let them to involve & moving freely among you they should be feel like strangers every where)
. make them feel like untouchables (this is offensive but its not a new thing in india so make them to eat their own medicine, I am sure this will work)
. dnt let your kids to play & study with their kids
. make them to feel isolated on your festivals where peoples gather & joy.

plz plz dnt use weapons & keep away from violence

I've heard Biharis and Bengalis are taking over Kashmir, is there any truth to this? This is ethnic genocide/ settler-colonialism

Do you guys also object to the non Kashmiris who have settled in Pakistan controlled Kashmir since 1947. Why was it okay for Pathans and Pakistani Punjabis to move to Kashmir post 1947 but not for Biharis, Punjabis and other Indians to do the same today?

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Do you guys also object to the non Kashmiris who have settled in Pakistan controlled Kashmir since 1947. Why was it okay for Pathans and Pakistani Punjabis to move to Kashmir post 1947 but not for Biharis, Punjabis and other Indians to do the same today?

bcz pakistani pathans & punjabis are muslims second pakistani kashmiris are free to move anywhere in Pakistan, they can study wherever they want they are equally pakistani citizens we never kick them out from our colleges on the basis of cricket match support

 

[Vayuu]

I can understand your frustration with India and I might feel the same way if I were you. But Kashmiris "loving" Pakistan makes no sense to me. The country has sponsored terrorism on your soil, yet you continue to be enamored by it. And you say it's primarily because of a shared religion. That makes me believe that no matter how hard Indians or our Government try to reconcile with Kashmir, some of you are just too brainwashed to accept the olive branch.

Exactly.

 

[amit]

Here is my take on the issue

Both Indians & Pakistanis love Kashmir & neither want to give it away. The LOC, should be made the International border and all efforts should be kept to make that border peaceful. POK will become a official part of Pakistan and be known as Azad Kashmir in India as well & the Indian J&K will remain with India as we all Indians want. Kashmir valley is a region where many Kashmiri Pandits used to live and were driven out in 1980s. The Indian government must make all efforts to ensure Kashmiri Pandits return back to Kashmir valley & live peacefully in Srinagar alongwith the Kashmiri muslims

Those people in Indian Kashmir who want to be with Pakistan, should be allowed to move to Azad Kashmir/Pakistan. This will ensure that the Kashmiri Muslims who are now in the Kashmiri valley are those who think of themselves as Indians. And the Kashmiri Pandits will also be living peacefully in the Kashmir valley

And finally we all must realise that we all want peace and neither of India & Pakistan want to give even 1 centimeter from their sides of Kashmir, so LOC as the official International border will make things peaceful

 

[karthikc]

Don't act naive it's about religion.Newer generations of KP(from across India) and KM don't speak to each other plus Tamil Nadu always respected Gandhi,Nehru whereas KM don't really care.The issue of TM was with the language and India didn't make Hindi a national language and that's why they have been integrated.FYI Tamil Muslims(most i know) still support Pak during sporting events.

I don't know how you arrived at this statement.

 

[Sidilicious]

I have read a few posts talking about referendum. Please note that in order for the referendum to take place, following conditions need to be met
1. Firstly, Pakistan should remove its troops from Azad Kashmir
2. Then India will be allowed to maintain only a certain amount of armed forces in order to ensure peace and stability
3. Finally, the referendum will be held

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/documents/jkunresolution.html

So before blaming India, the pre-requisite for the referendum to take place is that Pakistan should remove its troops from Azad Kashmir. Since that has not been done, India is not required to hold a referendum.

In addition to this, UN has now removed Kashmir as a disputed territory. Thus not requiring India to hold a referendum.
Finally, technically the Shimla Agreement also makes the UN resolution on Kashmir obsolete.

I am not mentioning my opinions, just the technical requirements.

 

[Sidilicious]

Don't act naive it's about religion.Newer generations of KP(from across India) and KM don't speak to each other plus Tamil Nadu always respected Gandhi,Nehru whereas KM don't really care.The issue of TM was with the language and India didn't make Hindi a national language and that's why they have been integrated.FYI Tamil Muslims(most i know) still support Pak during sporting events.

Ummmm.....not the ones I have met. In fact haven't met a single muslim supporting pakistan in any sports event. And I grew up in Assam, Bengal and Bihar.

 

[Haroon786]

If the vast majority want to merge with a certain country, then that is what should happen IMO.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

bcz pakistani pathans & punjabis are muslims second pakistani kashmiris are free to move anywhere in Pakistan, they can study wherever they want they are equally pakistani citizens we never kick them out from our colleges on the basis of cricket match support

Ahh back to the Kashmir for Muslims only ethos - at least you are being honest.

So it would be okay for Muslim Biharis and UP Wallas etc to move to Jammu and Kashmir? Not only can Indian Kashmiris study wherever they want in India they even receive special quotas to do so. The cricket match case was a disgrace but it's hardly reflective of Indian colleges and Universities as a whole. It's like pointing to the article below and claiming all Christians are treated this way in Pakistani University.

A public university in Pakistan is defying court orders, and misleading government authorities to avoid giving federally approved jobs to non-Muslims, a Christian politician in the nation's ruling party says.

In May 2009 the Federal government passed a law requiring 5% of jobs to be allocated to religious minorities. The University of Sargodha has hired hundreds of employees since this legislation was implemented in 2010, but continues to use bureaucratic tactics to avoid hiring non-Muslims, according to Chaudhry Mustaq Gill, a Christian political leader in the Pakistan Muslim League (N).

The legislation was created to protect religious minorities, and minimize discrimination for people applying for government jobs, but uncooperative state officials remain the main hurdle to its implementation. Shahbaz Bhatti, a Christian MP who was assassinated three years ago, initiated the groundbreaking legislation. Before his death, he had become an increasingly prominent figure for championing the cause of Asia Bibi (a Christian woman sentenced to death for allegedly insulting the Prophet Mohammed), and for seeking amendments to Pakistan's blasphemy laws.

http://www.opendoorsusa.org/takeact...ersity-refuses-prosperous-work-to-christians/

 

[Gabbar Singh]

*Universities.

 

[honeybadger]

This will end well..

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Ahh back to the Kashmir for Muslims only ethos - at least you are being honest.

So it would be okay for Muslim Biharis and UP Wallas etc to move to Jammu and Kashmir? Not only can Indian Kashmiris study wherever they want in India they even receive special quotas to do so. The cricket match case was a disgrace but it's hardly reflective of Indian colleges and Universities as a whole. It's like pointing to the article below and claiming all Christians are treated this way in Pakistani University.



http://www.opendoorsusa.org/takeact...ersity-refuses-prosperous-work-to-christians/

dnt mix two different things which arent even related to the topic, yes there are issues with minorities in Pakistan but Kashmir issue is totally different thing.

Back to the Kashmir for Muslim only ethos???? this was our stance from the day 1 & unchanged till today

I advice to go to a library & read the history books which are not published in India. You wont find the facts anything written by shastris, agarwals, aroras, kumars

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Oh and for the record whilst I'm not an Indian Kashmiri I would agree that the majority of them (well excluding those from Jammu, Ladakh and a few other smaller regions) are anti India and desire independence.

Many Pakistanis may not agree with this but most Kashmiris from the Valley prefer independence as opposed to joining Pakistan. Nevertheless if they only had 2 choices: 1 merge with Pakistan or 2 stay with India they'd probably go for the former.

Of course it will never happen because the pro Kashmiri independence movement have little leverage these days. At least in the 80s and 90s when militancy was at it's peak and India was almost bankrupt there was a reasonable chance of India giving in (or at least giving some concessions)however the tables have turned. Militancy and cross border infiltration is at an all time low (thanks to the fence and a change in Pakistani policy - thanks guys - and India is economically stable now. Moreover the world doesn't care - sure the OPEC countries and China sometimes make token statements but the Americans, The EU, Britain etc do not give a ****.

 

[junaid.ahmed]

so finally indian army successfully derailed this thread too.....congrats

I dnt know whats wrong with them if we wan to get an inside views from our brothers????

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Well then I hope the Indians flood the valley with Muslims from elsewhere in India - preferably ex army officers and their extended families and then their extended families - offer them massive incentives. Add in lots of Bihari and UP Muslim labourers too - give them a job, move them to a nicer part of India - kill two birds with one stone. Given that they are of the religion you guys desire there should be no problems eh.

dnt mix two different things which arent even related to the topic, yes there are issues with minorities in Pakistan but Kashmir issue is totally different thing.

Back to the Kashmir for Muslim only ethos???? this was our stance from the day 1 & unchanged till today

I advice to go to a library & read the history books which are not published in India. You wont find the facts anything written by shastris, agarwals, aroras, kumars

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Well then I hope the Indians flood the valley with Muslims from elsewhere in India - preferably ex army officers and their extended families and then their extended families - offer them massive incentives. Add in lots of Bihari and UP Muslim labourers too - give them a job, move them to a nicer part of India - kill two birds with one stone. Given that they are of the religion you guys desire there should be no problems eh.

well I have put the solution for this in this thread, read one my earlier post

 

[junaid.ahmed]

Yes correct, we should read books written by our Pakistani brothers on this issue that tells the truth, for example; like the books from Pakistani brothers which says Pakistan supposedly won all the wars it fought against India

we Pakistani believe in numbers

 

[Gabbar Singh]

I have read a few posts talking about referendum. Please note that in order for the referendum to take place, following conditions need to be met
1. Firstly, Pakistan should remove its troops from Azad Kashmir
2. Then India will be allowed to maintain only a certain amount of armed forces in order to ensure peace and stability
3. Finally, the referendum will be held

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/documents/jkunresolution.html

So before blaming India, the pre-requisite for the referendum to take place is that Pakistan should remove its troops from Azad Kashmir. Since that has not been done, India is not required to hold a referendum.

In addition to this, UN has now removed Kashmir as a disputed territory. Thus not requiring India to hold a referendum.
Finally, technically the Shimla Agreement also makes the UN resolution on Kashmir obsolete.

I am not mentioning my opinions, just the technical requirements.

4 - The referendum has to be held in all of Kashmir, not just the Indian side and only those living in Kashmir in 1947 and their decedents are allowed to vote. This is what Nehru and the Maharaja agreed to. That's the big problems for the Pakistanis given that they have flooded POK with vast numbers of non Kashmiris over the years. They won't even have proper records to determine who is eligible to vote and who isn't. The UN resolution itself recommended that in order to ensure the impartiality of the plebiscite Pakistan withdraw all tribesmen and nationals who entered the region post '47. Mmmm good luck doing that logistically.

The vote will never happen, like you say even the UN have given up.

Nevertheless, the Indian army and the security forces' behaviour in J&K over the years has been pretty disgraceful at times - it's no wonder then that such large sections of the population there hate the Indian state.

 

[Ali1984]

I have read a few posts talking about referendum. Please note that in order for the referendum to take place, following conditions need to be met
1. Firstly, Pakistan should remove its troops from Azad Kashmir
2. Then India will be allowed to maintain only a certain amount of armed forces in order to ensure peace and stability
3. Finally, the referendum will be held

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/documents/jkunresolution.html

So before blaming India, the pre-requisite for the referendum to take place is that Pakistan should remove its troops from Azad Kashmir. Since that has not been done, India is not required to hold a referendum.

In addition to this, UN has now removed Kashmir as a disputed territory. Thus not requiring India to hold a referendum.
Finally, technically the Shimla Agreement also makes the UN resolution on Kashmir obsolete.

I am not mentioning my opinions, just the technical requirements.

Why the bloody hell should Pakistan remove its troops first? Why does Pakistan have to always be the first to negotiate? Why can't India remove its troops first? The peace and stability problem in Kashmir is on the Indian side of Kashmir mate not Pakistani we are very stable over here (coming from a azad Kashmiri) there's no issues here, it's within your own area that the Kashmiris are oppressed and denied freedom and tortured by Indian soldiers so please allow that bullcrap. Always play innocent Indian army, Indian government, Indian cricket board!


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[Sidilicious]

Why the bloody hell should Pakistan remove its troops first? Why does Pakistan have to always be the first to negotiate? Why can't India remove its troops first? The peace and stability problem in Kashmir is on the Indian side of Kashmir mate not Pakistani we are very stable over here (coming from a azad Kashmiri) there's no issues here, it's within your own area that the Kashmiris are oppressed and denied freedom and tortured by Indian soldiers so please allow that bullcrap. Always play innocent Indian army, Indian government, Indian cricket board!


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That was a technical requirement as per the UN resolution. If Pakistan does not remove its troops, then India is not required to act upon or conduct the referendum. If Pakistan is not ready to do so, it has no right to ask for a referendum.

 

[Ali1984]

That was a technical requirement as per the UN resolution. If Pakistan does not remove its troops, then India is not required to act upon or conduct the referendum. If Pakistan is not ready to do so, it has no right to ask for a referendum.

The UN is full of it. If you rely on that bs organisation who supports the stronger nations always, we will Never come to a solution, UN is just a lap dog!


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[Sidilicious]

That was a technical requirement as per the UN resolution. If Pakistan does not remove its troops, then India is not required to act upon or conduct the referendum. If Pakistan is not ready to do so, it has no right to ask for a referendum.

Please note: All that I have written are the technicalities which were agreed to by both sides. I am not stating my opinion and do not want to convert this into an India vs Pak thread.

People spoke about a referendum, so I am just making clear the terms of the referendum.

 

[Sidilicious]

The UN is full of it. If you rely on that bs organisation who supports the stronger nations always, we will Never come to a solution, UN is just a lap dog!


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Mate, all 4 parties - Kashmir, UN, Pakistan and India agreed to these terms.

 

[Ali1984]

And since when have agreements ever been fulfilled? My point is even if Pakistan did agree to these terms the issue lies in the Jammu Kashmir side where, people are oppressed, Kashmiris themselves want freedom.


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[Sidilicious]

And since when have agreements ever been fulfilled? My point is even if Pakistan did agree to these terms the issue lies in the Jammu Kashmir side where, people are oppressed, Kashmiris themselves want freedom.


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I am not arguing against the need of a resolution to kashmir. I am just stating the facts about the referendum.

Since, we are on this topic, how will you tackle the non-muslim majority areas in jammu and ladakh?

 

[nish_mate]

I am not arguing against the need of a resolution to kashmir. I am just stating the facts about the referendum.

Since, we are on this topic, how will you tackle the non-muslim majority areas in jammu and ladakh?

Convert them and there are no non-Muslim areas, then build a token temple or a Gurudwara to show your compassion and peace...win win

 

[Ali1984]

The same way they tackled it when Pakistan and India was divided? Those who wanna move can move to India those who wanna stay can stay.


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[Sidilicious]

The same way they tackled it when Pakistan and India was divided? Those who wanna move can move to India those who wanna stay can stay.


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Ummm...not really. The muslim majority areas became Pak, and the rest India. Technically, Jammu and Ladakh should become India then, no?

 

[Ali1984]

Yeah but there was Muslims from across India who migrated to Pak and Pakistani Muslims who chose to live in India, the same solution here Hindus Sikhs or any non Muslims welcome to stay and if they don't want they can move to India. There can be a solution but depends on what the majority want what is the size area off Jammu and Ladakh?


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[nish_mate]

Yeah but there was Muslims from across India who migrated to Pak and Pakistani Muslims who chose to live in India, the same solution here Hindus Sikhs or any non Muslims welcome to stay and if they don't want they can move to India. There can be a solution but depends on what the majority want what is the size area off Jammu and Ladakh?


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But why should they be uprooted, just because Valley wants to move to Pakistan? If ever there is a referendum and the valley only votes yes, then only valley should be a part of Pakistan or Greater Kashmir or the pie in the sky, why should the other parts of IAK that want to remain with India, be coerced into joining a country they voted no for?

 

[Ali1984]

What will majority vote be?? Regardless whether it's valley Ladakh or Jammu majority shall prevail. Your always going to have a few people who are not going to be happy with a certain solution but you have to see what majority want as you will never please all.


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[CricketTragic]

It is too late to solve kashmir issue.

 

[hussain123]

This is precisely what I was referring to. The new generation of Kp's and Km's have had no interaction and only breed hatred for each other.. People have developed this mindset from both sides... The earlier generation lived, played and did all these things together so even when there was India / Pak tension but a general bonhomie and mutual regard helped people live amicably, i think that's lost for good..

I will give you an example, we moved out of Kashmir in 90 and my granny got a strange request in 91 from her old Muslim neighbour, he wanted his daughter to live with her as she was seeing a HM militant ( again a regular guy who dropped out and crossed border, after he came back, he again was in touch with this woman.... Our neighbour wanted a better future for his daughter and hence the request)...even though we had hardly any money but my nanny willingly agreed as they had been neighbour's for ages. She lived with her for 2 years, finished studies and is now in Dubai living happily... The family is still friends with us, but these kind of things can't happen now as the two communities are polar opposites now...

P.s.....Sorry for the earlier outburst by the way...

Sir, you are pretty much echoing what I heard about those pre 90s era.pandits have had the reputation of being great educationists.there are many who say education has suffered due to the forced mass migration of pandits.what I like about that milchaar is both communities were very religious and conservative but the trust and bondage amongst two communities was at a different level.

 

[hussain123]

It is too late to solve kashmir issue.

It is never too late

 

[hussain123]

What will majority vote be?? Regardless whether it's valley Ladakh or Jammu majority shall prevail. Your always going to have a few people who are not going to be happy with a certain solution but you have to see what majority want as you will never please all.


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In Kashmiri, we call it shaal kaken daleel.un resolutions no matter how much you and me want will probably never happen.just looka at the pre condition. Will pak army remove its troops from azad Kashmir? That will never happen.best solution to this issue for me is let jammu and buddhist ladakh assimilate with india.and remaining parts of indian administrated kashmir and azad kashmir are joined as single entity which therafter acts as buffer state between two nations.let their be a joint committee which regulates the foreign defence and foreign relations of kashmir.and all its domestic politics, economy etc comes in its own domain and nobody in anyway indulges in that.this one is pretty doable except few hawkish elements in both the countries which unfortunately need convincing as they hold the keys.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Going by the posts, I get that Indian Kashmiris love for Pakistan is 2 folded.
1 -> They share the same religion (Which I already knew)
2 -> They look more close to Pakistanis than Indians.

So even if India floods Kashmir with Muslims from Bengal or Bihar or Tamilnadu or Maharashtra, it will not be acceptable for Kashmiri Muslims as they do not look like them.

 

[hussain123]

Going by the posts, I get that Indian Kashmiris love for Pakistan is 2 folded.
1 -> They share the same religion (Which I already knew)
2 -> They look more close to Pakistanis than Indians.

So even if India floods Kashmir with Muslims from Bengal or Bihar or Tamilnadu or Maharashtra, it will not be acceptable for Kashmiri Muslims as they do not look like them.

Their are around half a million non locals in kashmir and about 70 to 80 percent of them would be muslims(and I am being conservative about it).but any thought of settling them here would be opposed tootha and nail.kashmir is not a religious issue, it is nation which is a 5000 year old civilisation and wants to be free like any self respecting nation in the world.

 

[Sidilicious]

Going by the posts, I get that Indian Kashmiris love for Pakistan is 2 folded.
1 -> They share the same religion (Which I already knew)
2 -> They look more close to Pakistanis than Indians.

So even if India floods Kashmir with Muslims from Bengal or Bihar or Tamilnadu or Maharashtra, it will not be acceptable for Kashmiri Muslims as they do not look like them.

I dont think the way you are looking at it is the right way to go. Its also a matter of ethnicity.

One of the reasons India seems to be doing well as far as unity is concerned is that they have allowed people to be what their ethnicity or language is. So, a Tamilian is a tamilian, a Marathi is a marathi, and a Bengali is a Bengali. They are proud to be what they are, but also realise the collectively we are Indians, irrespective of religion and ethnicity. Unfortunately, we have failed the Kashmiris in this regard. A Kashmiri was never allowed to be a Kashmiri and proud.

Having said that, as [MENTION=137989]hussain123[/MENTION] mentioned there is no easy solution. Firstly, Jammu and Ladakh are an area that needs to be considered separately from the Kashmir issue. Secondly, the process will be slow. The 2 Kashmir borders will need to be opened. And J&K will need to be given further autonomy.

This process will not finish in the next few years, but will take a couple of decades, and is the ideal way to resolve this issue without conflict. But for this both Kashmiris and Pakistanis will need to realise that this will be a slow process, and any acts of terrorism will set this process back by a few years.

From an Indian perspective, we are now spending too much money on day to day maintenance of our forces. If this issue can be resolved, we could invest that money into R&D in arms and ammunition. I don't think we should reduce our military spending, instead we should invest it into R&D.

 

[Ali1984]

In Kashmiri, we call it shaal kaken daleel.un resolutions no matter how much you and me want will probably never happen.just looka at the pre condition. Will pak army remove its troops from azad Kashmir? That will never happen.best solution to this issue for me is let jammu and buddhist ladakh assimilate with india.and remaining parts of indian administrated kashmir and azad kashmir are joined as single entity which therafter acts as buffer state between two nations.let their be a joint committee which regulates the foreign defence and foreign relations of kashmir.and all its domestic politics, economy etc comes in its own domain and nobody in anyway indulges in that.this one is pretty doable except few hawkish elements in both the countries which unfortunately need convincing as they hold the keys.

Well said sir! Maybe we need you as a leader to stand up! [emoji122][emoji122]. I like the suggestions you made very good and sensible valid points. It's a false resolution thought never going to happen. I am hoping it will but don't look too positive. Both countries have too much pride too come to an agreement on the Kashmir issue however being a Pakistani Kashmiri I will say we are not oppressed and pretty happy with things here, there's nothing we canget in Pakistan that we cannot get in Kashmir not like we suffer while Pakistan prospers. Yes there's corruption and selfish politicians but that's just our culture I suppose lol.

However, just imagine if Kashmir was united and had freedom. We would have mass tourism. Kashmir is so beautiful so much to see. It's a shame really as even I miss out on seeing Jammu which has meant to be the best valleys and views, and to think i am a Kashmiri I am alien to it. I think that's one of the reasons India doesn't want to let go hoping that one day Kashmiris would accept there fate and the country could expand its tourism in to jammu.


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[Kashmiri_Pak_fan]

You love paksitan. You want independence too. What about indian muslims? Are they not muslims? Please tell what exactly happened that makes you think like that. Any bad incidence? Give us the reason. Otherwise i will assume you just want to be part of the bandwagon without even knowing what's causing it.

Thanks for asking reason....I said we want independence and it was never bandwagon for kashmiris but definitely for you non muslims ( i only presume you are but pls fogive if you are muslim)who never bothered to know excat reason of our struggle for freedom for which we have cost thousands of lives.....first fact is India has occupied kashmir against its promise and our wish ...for that pls bother to know history of kashmir(perheps any kashmiri pper can provide you)or from any other reliable source....and it is the reason we prefer pak over india if god forbid we somehow can't get independence as we strongly consider india as cheaters and pak has supported us a lot in this regard....and you will call it terrorism but actually it is not it is called JIHAD in ISLAM which our MUJAHIDINS are doing whom you are calling terrorrists but yes there are some groups or individuals everywhere in world including india and pak whom you can called terrorrists and if you want to know excatly what jihad is then pls try to know about it.....and you can't believe how tyrant indian govt and forces used to be here...now you will ask why don't we want to be with india? why we want indepence? its answer is we want ISLAMIC governance in kashmir as it is most important aspect of our religion....now as for as indian muslims are concerned they are our brothers and we love them too..but the reason is their independece is too tough to get because there are several reasons which you should better know otherwise they definitely want to get it and live in ISLAMIC governance but they can't shout loud coz non muslims or iindian govt will suppress them because they will feel it will lead to mass disturbance ....now i'm sure you must have got your all the answers...and i'm really sorry to say that perhaps i can't discuss on this topic again because unfortunately i have tough schedule ahead.
thanking you

 

[hussain123]

Well said sir! Maybe we need you as a leader to stand up! [emoji122][emoji122]. I like the suggestions you made very good and sensible valid points. It's a false resolution thought never going to happen. I am hoping it will but don't look too positive. Both countries have too much pride too come to an agreement on the Kashmir issue however being a Pakistani Kashmiri I will say we are not oppressed and pretty happy with things here, there's nothing we canget in Pakistan that we cannot get in Kashmir not like we suffer while Pakistan prospers. Yes there's corruption and selfish politicians but that's just our culture I suppose lol.

However, just imagine if Kashmir was united and had freedom. We would have mass tourism. Kashmir is so beautiful so much to see. It's a shame really as even I miss out on seeing Jammu which has meant to be the best valleys and views, and to think i am a Kashmiri I am alien to it. I think that's one of the reasons India doesn't want to let go hoping that one day Kashmiris would accept there fate and the country could expand its tourism in to jammu.


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Bro, at my age I would be happy to be the paet paet saeb of any our leaders.the suggestion I mention has been a part of political circles for a long time maybe.and such articles which call for trifurcation of jandk and integrating kashmir valley and muslim dominated areas of kashmir with aazd kashmir which ahould remain a neutral territory are published once in a while in local newsapers. .i just nitpicked some crude points from one of such articles and I think it to be most practical solution.
You say about tourism and I just saw some pictures of azad Kashmir posted in another thread and I must say it is absolutely stunning on your side.

 

[Ali1984]

Bro, at my age I would be happy to be the paet paet saeb of any our leaders.the suggestion I mention has been a part of political circles for a long time maybe.and such articles which call for trifurcation of jandk and integrating kashmir valley and muslim dominated areas of kashmir with aazd kashmir which ahould remain a neutral territory are published once in a while in local newsapers. .i just nitpicked some crude points from one of such articles and I think it to be most practical solution.
You say about tourism and I just saw some pictures of azad Kashmir posted in another thread and I must say it is absolutely stunning on your side.

Lol yes it has some really stunning parts of it too, if I could upload a video here I would show you mirpur sides, yet muzaffarabad and neelam are probably the most scenic. But you know the grass always seems greener on the other side [emoji2][emoji2]


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[hussain123]

Lol yes it has some really stunning parts of it too, if I could upload a video here I would show you mirpur sides, yet muzaffarabad and neelam are probably the most scenic. But you know the grass always seems greener on the other side [emoji2][emoji2]


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Hope someday, we visit each other sides to see how greener they really are.even here, their are many unexplored sceneries which even kashmiris here dont know much about.

 

[Ali1984]

In sha Allah my brother from across the border! Hopefully yes we do. Most definitely there are parts of azad Kashmir or even northern Pakistan that haven't been invested in by the government for tourism most of these places are tough to get to as they have no safe access to them, the governments need to invest in to making these places accessible there's soo much to see.


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[hussain123]

In sha Allah my brother from across the border! Hopefully yes we do. Most definitely there are parts of azad Kashmir or even northern Pakistan that haven't been invested in by the government for tourism most of these places are tough to get to as they have no safe access to them, the governments need to invest in to making these places accessible there's soo much to see.


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Hopefully bro, all this happens sooner than later.eagerly waiting for that moment.cheers

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Thanks for asking reason....I said we want independence and it was never bandwagon for kashmiris but definitely for you non muslims ( i only presume you are but pls fogive if you are muslim)who never bothered to know excat reason of our struggle for freedom for which we have cost thousands of lives.....first fact is India has occupied kashmir against its promise and our wish ...for that pls bother to know history of kashmir(perheps any kashmiri pper can provide you)or from any other reliable source....and it is the reason we prefer pak over india if god forbid we somehow can't get independence as we strongly consider india as cheaters and pak has supported us a lot in this regard....and you will call it terrorism but actually it is not it is called JIHAD in ISLAM which our MUJAHIDINS are doing whom you are calling terrorrists but yes there are some groups or individuals everywhere in world including india and pak whom you can called terrorrists and if you want to know excatly what jihad is then pls try to know about it.....and you can't believe how tyrant indian govt and forces used to be here...now you will ask why don't we want to be with india? why we want indepence? its answer is we want ISLAMIC governance in kashmir as it is most important aspect of our religion....now as for as indian muslims are concerned they are our brothers and we love them too..but the reason is their independece is too tough to get because there are several reasons which you should better know otherwise they definitely want to get it and live in ISLAMIC governance but they can't shout loud coz non muslims or iindian govt will suppress them because they will feel it will lead to mass disturbance ....now i'm sure you must have got your all the answers...and i'm really sorry to say that perhaps i can't discuss on this topic again because unfortunately i have tough schedule ahead.
thanking you

So basically what you are saying is Kashmiris want Islamic Governance and they don't want to live under Kafir regimes.

I believe if the complaint that Kashmiris have against India is lack of development or Job opportunities or acess to Proper Education or Health Facilities, then all these can be handled.

If the issue that Kashmiris have is because of religion, then nothing can be done. No amount of development or Job opportunities or Health facilities will ever change those kind of people whose day starts and ends with religion.

I am sad to read what you wrote about Indian Muslims also want be under Islamic rule and they do not want to say it loud because it can create riots. This is exactly Hindu Nationalists say about Indian Muslims.

Lets say tomorrow, the whole of India changes its religion to Islam, will Kashmiris be happy to be with India?

 

[Slog]

One thing I have to say is that from what I have noticed is that it is to the point where Indian held Kashmiris will never see themselves as Indians. I have had the chance to get to know only a handful (5-6) and they were all in the US as Indian citizens. Some of them even came to the US for masters or for work after having studies in Indian universities an gotten all their education from there. They had used quotas and everything but they never had a good thing to say about India. Infact most never even identified themselves as Indians. It was to the point where I dont think this generation has any chance of reapproachment. These were educated, professional people so they are likely to have used rationale .So you can only imagine the less well off ones and what they think. Getting Kashmiri Muslims to recognize themselves as Indian and be proud Indian just does not seem to be happeneing anytime soon. They all supported Pakistan in sports etc but that did not always mean that they were die hard Pakistani patriots or anything either. It was just to be anything not Indian.

I actually asked one of the guys I got close to that you used all these quotas, got Indian education and even worked in Bangalore and Hyderabad to better your stock and be successful but even then it seems that softening your stance towards India and maybe accepting India as a your country is not something you can comprehend. Basically he said the atrocities of the Indian army are not the reason for this sentiment. It has just added to it but no matter what the Indian government does or how good they are for us we just do not want to be Indians and it is a matter of pride and principle to not be such. So while any work they do for us is good but its not seen as a gesture of goodwill and you cannot buy our loyalty. There is no fault of the Indian state why they dont want to be part of India. It is not a phenomenon which sprung up after mistreatment or anything. It is there from the start and will remain so.

Anyways kudos to the posters here for not making it a typical Pak-india thread

 

[Slog]

[/B]


I believe if the complaint that Kashmiris have against India is lack of development or Job opportunities or acess to Proper Education or Health Facilities, then all these can be handled.

Actually very similar point was made to the guy I was talking to. He said that they will ofcourse accept these but these 'bones' are not going to buy their loyalty. Its not a result of bad treatment or underdevelopment why they dont want to be Indian. They just dont want to be Indians period.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Actually very similar point was made to the guy I was talking to. He said that they will ofcourse accept these but these 'bones' are not going to buy their loyalty. Its not a result of bad treatment or underdevelopment why they dont want to be Indian. They just dont want to be Indians period.

What is so repulsive about being Indian?

 

[CricketTragic]

The only true borders lie between day and night, between life and death, between hope and loss.

 

[Slog]

What is so repulsive about being Indian?

dont know man. they see themselves as kashmiris first.

i guess the ones who are more religious inclined see themselves as Pakistanis due the religious reasons.

not sure. there is a sense of being 'different' not sure superior

ps: i havent met a lot of indian kashmris so this may not be everyones opinion but he sure made it seem like it.

 

[hussain123]

One thing I have to say is that from what I have noticed is that it is to the point where Indian held Kashmiris will never see themselves as Indians. I have had the chance to get to know only a handful (5-6) and they were all in the US as Indian citizens. Some of them even came to the US for masters or for work after having studies in Indian universities an gotten all their education from there. They had used quotas and everything but they never had a good thing to say about India. Infact most never even identified themselves as Indians. It was to the point where I dont think this generation has any chance of reapproachment. These were educated, professional people so they are likely to have used rationale .So you can only imagine the less well off ones and what they think. Getting Kashmiri Muslims to recognize themselves as Indian and be proud Indian just does not seem to be happeneing anytime soon. They all supported Pakistan in sports etc but that did not always mean that they were die hard Pakistani patriots or anything either. It was just to be anything not Indian.

I actually asked one of the guys I got close to that you used all these quotas, got Indian education and even worked in Bangalore and Hyderabad to better your stock and be successful but even then it seems that softening your stance towards India and maybe accepting India as a your country is not something you can comprehend. Basically he said the atrocities of the Indian army are not the reason for this sentiment. It has just added to it but no matter what the Indian government does or how good they are for us we just do not want to be Indians and it is a matter of pride and principle to not be such. So while any work they do for us is good but its not seen as a gesture of goodwill and you cannot buy our loyalty. There is no fault of the Indian state why they dont want to be part of India. It is not a phenomenon which sprung up after mistreatment or anything. It is there from the start and will remain so.

Anyways kudos to the posters here for not making it a typical Pak-india thread

Their are no quotas for muslims let alone kashmiri muslims.i dont know which set of kashmiris you have met.

 

[hussain123]

Actually very similar point was made to the guy I was talking to. He said that they will ofcourse accept these but these 'bones' are not going to buy their loyalty. Its not a result of bad treatment or underdevelopment why they dont want to be Indian. They just dont want to be Indians period.

It is a myth that kashmir on indian side has more development than azd kashmir. Infact their was an article by a reputed journalist shujaat bukhari who exposed some of these myths.

 

[rahulrulezz]

One thing I have to say is that from what I have noticed is that it is to the point where Indian held Kashmiris will never see themselves as Indians. I have had the chance to get to know only a handful (5-6) and they were all in the US as Indian citizens. Some of them even came to the US for masters or for work after having studies in Indian universities an gotten all their education from there. They had used quotas and everything but they never had a good thing to say about India. Infact most never even identified themselves as Indians. It was to the point where I dont think this generation has any chance of reapproachment. These were educated, professional people so they are likely to have used rationale .So you can only imagine the less well off ones and what they think. Getting Kashmiri Muslims to recognize themselves as Indian and be proud Indian just does not seem to be happeneing anytime soon. They all supported Pakistan in sports etc but that did not always mean that they were die hard Pakistani patriots or anything either. It was just to be anything not Indian.

I actually asked one of the guys I got close to that you used all these quotas, got Indian education and even worked in Bangalore and Hyderabad to better your stock and be successful but even then it seems that softening your stance towards India and maybe accepting India as a your country is not something you can comprehend. Basically he said the atrocities of the Indian army are not the reason for this sentiment. It has just added to it but no matter what the Indian government does or how good they are for us we just do not want to be Indians and it is a matter of pride and principle to not be such. So while any work they do for us is good but its not seen as a gesture of goodwill and you cannot buy our loyalty. There is no fault of the Indian state why they dont want to be part of India. It is not a phenomenon which sprung up after mistreatment or anything. It is there from the start and will remain so.

Anyways kudos to the posters here for not making it a typical Pak-india thread

Great post!!

Sooner we Indians realize this the better. Some Indians posters are saying that it's too late. I m actually scared that it will become too late even if we let Kasmir go. Kashmiris can never beours. No matter what we do for them, they will always consider themselves Kasmiri Muslims living under Hindu India. It's totally useless to integrate Kasmir into India. We are basically allowing future extremists to migrate into the India. Sooner or later, One of these Kashmiri will blow something up and it will create communal violence. Matter of fact is how can we forcefully ask Kashmiris to call themselves Indians. They will never ever consider India as their country. Religion overpowers patriotism for them.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

dont know man. they see themselves as kashmiris first.

i guess the ones who are more religious inclined see themselves as Pakistanis due the religious reasons.

not sure. there is a sense of being 'different' not sure superior

ps: i havent met a lot of indian kashmris so this may not be everyones opinion but he sure made it seem like it.

So then Kashmiri Hindus are only tolerating India because of common religion. Otherwise, physical features wise, they have nothing in common with most Indians.

 

[hussain123]

Great post!!

Sooner we Indians realize this the better. Some Indians posters are saying that it's too late. I m actually scared that it will become too late even if we let Kasmir go. Kashmiris can never beours. No matter what we do for them, they will always consider themselves Kasmiri Muslims living under Hindu India. It's totally useless to integrate Kasmir into India. We are basically allowing future extremists to migrate into the India. Sooner or later, One of these Kashmiri will blow something up and it will create communal violence. Matter of fact is how can we forcefully ask Kashmiris to call themselves Indians. They will never ever consider India as their country. Religion overpowers patriotism for them.

Lol.his post is marred with a bundle of lies.firstly, their are no reservation for kashmiris in any college or university of india.all those who have studied at reputed institutions have wrrked their ***** off to get there.are you saying shah faesel topping ias exams was a favour? Their is a kashmiri who heads cancer department at aiims and he comes from a very humble background.their are tons of doctors, engineers and bankers etc who have all burned their midnights oil to get where they are now.nobody is doing a favour to anyone here and yakoob memon was not a kashmiri

 

[Strike Rate]

Can we start a similar thread for Balochis.

So far i have seen only one Baloch on PP his name is Naim you can find his threads here.

 

[Slog]

Their are no quotas for muslims let alone kashmiri muslims.i dont know which set of kashmiris you have met.

thats what my indians friends told me

 

[Raw deal]

Kashmiris don't accept themselves as Indians, but do Indians really care? I mean its a 1.2 billion country, sooner it will overtake China.. What is the % of Kashmir population in India? Do they have any sort of effect on Indians? I think Kashmiris are not even 1% of India 's population. Lol. This is ridiculous.

 

[ChachaCricket]

thats what my indians friends told me

Indian friends or the Kashmiris from India?

 

[ChachaCricket]

A possible solution could be to give Kashmir independence but keep it a part of the country like we have. But the Army and PM from both sides will have to cooperate.

 

[Yatoo]

Kashmiris don't accept themselves as Indians, but do Indians really care? I mean its a 1.2 billion country, sooner it will overtake China.. What is the % of Kashmir population in India? Do they have any sort of effect on Indians? I think Kashmiris are not even 1% of India 's population. Lol. This is ridiculous.

60-70 lakh people (Kashmir only) out of 1.3 billion. 3 seats in lok Sabha [emoji16]

 

[Lurker_Ind]

60-70 lakh people (Kashmir only) out of 1.3 billion. 3 seats in lok Sabha [emoji16]

60-70 Lakh Muslims or the entire population including Jammu and Ladhakh?

 

[Yatoo]

60-70 Lakh Muslims or the entire population including Jammu and Ladhakh?

Kashmir only. Excluding ladakh and jammu. But Jammu region has significant Muslim population too. So has ladakh.

 

[Strike Rate]

60-70 lakh people (Kashmir only) out of 1.3 billion. 3 seats in lok Sabha [emoji16]

lok sabha you mean national assembly? Here in pakistan side of Kashmir there are no national assembly or senate seats from Azad Kashmir they are independent have and they have their own Azad Kashmir Assembly with their own Prime Minister and President.

 

[Yatoo]

lok sabha you mean national assembly? Here in pakistan side of Kashmir there are no national assembly or senate seats from Azad Kashmir they are independent have and they have their own Azad Kashmir Assembly with their own Prime Minister and President.

Yes. National Assembly. Total seats for JK is 6.
3 for Kashmir, 2 for jammu and one for ladakh.
In Pakistan, how do you show Kashmir on your maps? I want to see a map if you have one.

 

[Deosai]

Yes. National Assembly. Total seats for JK is 6.
3 for Kashmir, 2 for jammu and one for ladakh.
In Pakistan, how do you show Kashmir on your maps? I want to see a map if you have one.

In our maps it's shown as an autonomous part of Pakistan along with GB, but it's shaded under a different color usually

 

[Deosai]

Yes. National Assembly. Total seats for JK is 6.
3 for Kashmir, 2 for jammu and one for ladakh.
In Pakistan, how do you show Kashmir on your maps? I want to see a map if you have one.

Usual map

Map from some govt site

 

[Strike Rate]

Yes. National Assembly. Total seats for JK is 6.
3 for Kashmir, 2 for jammu and one for ladakh.
In Pakistan, how do you show Kashmir on your maps? I want to see a map if you have one.

It has a flag as well you can visit this website the AJK govt website http://www.pmajk.gov.pk/ to get more info.

 

[Raw deal]

60-70 lakh people (Kashmir only) out of 1.3 billion. 3 seats in lok Sabha [emoji16]

so, that's not even 1%.

 

[Raw deal]

Honestly 0.5% won't have any impact.

 

[Yatoo]

Usual map

Map from some govt site

In the first map, only AJK is shown.
In second one, most of JK is shown except the area under China.