How much income is required to live a comfortable life in Pakistan?

[gkb101277867]

What type of income ranges would one require to live a comfortable middle class/upper middle class lifestyle in Pakistan?

Say for example middle/upper middle class family of four. A comfortable lifestyle where you do not want for anything. An income where you have a enough to meet all basic needs and also comforts such as going to restaraunts and cinemas etc a few times a week.

One of the main reasons of asking is because I have been told that minimum wage is around 20 thousand rupees per month which just seems ridiculously low.

 

[Mamoon]

What type of income ranges would one require to live a comfortable middle class/upper middle class lifestyle in Pakistan?

Say for example middle/upper middle class family of four. A comfortable lifestyle where you do not want for anything. An income where you have a enough to meet all basic needs and also comforts such as going to restaraunts and cinemas etc a few times a week.

One of the main reasons of asking is because I have been told that minimum wage is around 20 thousand rupees per month which just seems ridiculously low.

A running income of around 5 lakh rupees per month, and assets worth of 3-4 crore rupees are sufficient to live a very good life in Pakistan.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A running income of around 5 lakh rupees per month, and assets worth of 3-4 crore rupees are sufficient to live a very good life in Pakistan.

This is over £3000? You can have a good life in England with such an income(single person).

Or is it because in Pakistan many aviod taxes?

 

[DeadBall]

Depends on many factors, number of family members, owning or renting a house, depending upon one's definition of comfortable etc. I know people who are happy with 60-80k income and people unhappy with "5 lakh" rupees.

 

[Mamoon]

This is over £3000? You can have a good life in England with such an income(single person).

Or is it because in Pakistan many aviod taxes?

Depends on what the OP means by living a “comfortable upper/middle class” life. These terms are arbitrary.

If you want to live in a big house in a posh locality with multiple air conditioners and a generator to deal with load-shedding, send your kids to good quality private schools, drive a Civic or a Corolla that costs around 25-30 lakhs, wear branded clothes, eat at fancy restaurants, hire servants etc., then you need a minimum of 5 lakh rupees per month.

Otherwise, you can definitely live a good life even in 2 lakh rupees per month.

As far as taxes are concerned, the fact that the majority of people don’t pay taxes is the biggest problem that Pakistan faces, and yet, these people have the gall to blame the governments for being corrupt.

 

[gkb101277867]

A running income of around 5 lakh rupees per month, and assets worth of 3-4 crore rupees are sufficient to live a very good life in Pakistan.

That seems very excessive. That seems more like upper class than middle

 

[gkb101277867]

Sorry I meant going to restaurants and cinemas a few times a month...not week lol

 

[KingKhanWC]

Depends on what the OP means by living a “comfortable upper/middle class” life. These terms are arbitrary.

If you want to live in a big house in a posh locality with multiple air conditioners and a generator to deal with load-shedding, send your kids to good quality private schools, drive a Civic or a Corolla that costs around 25-30 lakhs, wear branded clothes, eat at fancy restaurants, hire servants etc., then you need a minimum of 5 lakh rupees per month.

Otherwise, you can definitely live a good life even in 2 lakh rupees per month.

As far as taxes are concerned, the fact that the majority of people don’t pay taxes is the biggest problem that Pakistan faces, and yet, these people have the gall to blame the governments for being corrupt.

Then I would assume most people dont live such a lifestyle in Pakistan?

Interestnly what you are describing can be afforded in the UK with less money esp the cars which are much cheaper, education, healthcare etc are free. But hiring maids will be much more expensive here.

The village life would be much cheaper esp if you grow your own food and keep animals. Apart from Islamabad, I dont like staying in Pakistani cities.

 

[gkb101277867]

QUICK UPDATE:

It seems some people are getting the wrong idea with what I meant meaning "comfortable". I don't mean lavish houses with maids and servants

I just mean something like a family of 4, a rented 3 bedroom flat and a basic-ish car. No servants or anything.

An income which allows you to meet all your basic needs and also some comforts like a once a week outing to a restaurant or cinema etc. Nothing too fancy. No monthly trips to Islamabad/murree etc

 

[Mamoon]

Then I would assume most people dont live such a lifestyle in Pakistan?

Interestnly what you are describing can be afforded in the UK with less money esp the cars which are much cheaper, education, healthcare etc are free. But hiring maids will be much more expensive here.

The village life would be much cheaper esp if you grow your own food and keep animals. Apart from Islamabad, I dont like staying in Pakistani cities.

Living a quality life in Pakistan comes at a great cost compared to Western countries. Moreover, no matter how rich you are, you cannot “buy” life security.

Things are better now, but there was a time when we couldn’t even go out to public places because a bomb could blow up anywhere.

 

[gkb101277867]

Also if 20k is minimum wage then 2 lakhs seems very high for middle class income. What kind of jobs would get you that kind of income? Doctor, dentist, engineer or lawyer etc? Something professional?

 

[Mamoon]

QUICK UPDATE:

It seems some people are getting the wrong idea with what I meant meaning "comfortable". I don't mean lavish houses with maids and servants

I just mean something like a family of 4, a rented 3 bedroom flat and a basic-ish car. No servants or anything.

An income which allows you to meet all your basic needs and also some comforts like a once a week outing to a restaurant or cinema etc. Nothing too fancy. No monthly trips to Islamabad/murree etc

Depends on where you want to stay. For example, a mediocre 3 bedroom flat in Islamabad would cost at least 50k per month, which means you need a running income of at least 2 lakh rupees to meet your other needs and wants.

Property in Islamabad is very expensive, but other major cities are not going to be much cheaper either.

In Pakistan, if you don’t inherit a house and some property from your parents, you will struggle all your life unless you have a very high paying job.

 

[Mamoon]

Also if 20k is minimum wage then 2 lakhs seems very high for middle class income. What kind of jobs would get you that kind of income? Doctor, dentist, engineer or lawyer etc? Something professional?

Minimum wage concept doesn’t exist in Pakistan; it is only theoretical.

Yes only professionals earn that kind of money, that too after years of experience. Like I said, you will struggle to make ends meet if you don’t inherit property and assets from your parents.

 

[gkb101277867]

Minimum wage concept doesn’t exist in Pakistan; it is only theoretical.

Yes only professionals earn that kind of money, that too after years of experience. Like I said, you will struggle to make ends meet if you don’t inherit property and assets from your parents.

What kind of money on average is a doctor, engineer or lawyer likely to earn if they are newly qualified or have been qualified for 2 or 3 years? Would it be enough to earn 2 lakhs?

 

[Hermoine Green]

What kind of money on average is a doctor, engineer or lawyer likely to earn if they are newly qualified or have been qualified for 2 or 3 years? Would it be enough to earn 2 lakhs?

If they are qualified for 2, 3 years e.g Docter
If he is some Surgeon, then his monthly income is more then 2Lakh per month for sure.

Even a University department chairman in small cities are earning more than 2 Lakh per month.

If Docter is simple MBBS, he is having Gov job and a Private Clinic well then i must say his monthly income is around 3 Lakh or more.

It's way too easy for a Docter or a Good Lawyer to earn 2 lakh or more per month.

 

[TQ89]

What kind of money on average is a doctor, engineer or lawyer likely to earn if they are newly qualified or have been qualified for 2 or 3 years? Would it be enough to earn 2 lakhs?

Money for engineers are lower in pak as there is no set scale for them and largely depends on the job role plus the company in which he/she is employed.

You can find engineers in good companies at 80k plus having 2-3 years of experience and you can also find engineers toiling in substandard companies for 20-30 k maximum 50k even after five years.

Good advice for you would be to ask a poster called DW44 about this. From his posts, He is an engineer who is currently working in Pak & can give you much accurate idea than us guys who are outside the country.

 

[Mamoon]

What kind of money on average is a doctor, engineer or lawyer likely to earn if they are newly qualified or have been qualified for 2 or 3 years? Would it be enough to earn 2 lakhs?

Doctors and lawyers earn a lot of money in Pakistan, but you need to be either foreign qualified and/or have a lot of experience.

Being newly qualified isn’t a problem as long as you are foreign qualified. I do not know much about engineers, but from what I have seen and heard, the job prospects are low. However, apparently, the CPEC has opened new avenues, but the competition is intense.

 

[Mamoon]

If they are qualified for 2, 3 years e.g Docter
If he is some Surgeon, then his monthly income is more then 2Lakh per month for sure.

Even a University department chairman in small cities are earning more than 2 Lakh per month.

If Docter is simple MBBS, he is having Gov job and a Private Clinic well then i must say his monthly income is around 3 Lakh or more.

It's way too easy for a Docter or a Good Lawyer to earn 2 lakh or more per month.

The problem with being a simple MBBS is that no one would visit your clinic. MBBS-only doctors are dime a dozen, and you have to stand out from others to run a successful clinic especially when you are young.

It is going to take many years to gain recognition and credibility unless you are highly qualified.

Another issue with private clinics is that it represents a moral dilemma - it is pure, unadulterated exploitation of the poor.

 

[gkb101277867]

The problem with being a simple MBBS is that no one would visit your clinic. MBBS-only doctors are dime a dozen, and you have to stand out from others to run a successful clinic especially when you are young.

It is going to take many years to gain recognition and credibility unless you are highly qualified.

Another issue with private clinics is that it represents a moral dilemma - it is pure, unadulterated exploitation of the poor.

What is meant by "simple MBBS"? Do you mean doctors that are not specialised in a particular field..like a specific type of surgeon perhaps?

Also I have a cousin who applied to study medicine in Pakistan and he told me that job prospects are really low and new qualified doctors have no choice but to work for low wages such as 40-50k per month. People in this thread are saying that doctors make 2 lakh easy. It might just be a case of employers taking advantage of newly qualified doctors for a year or two until they get experience......

Thanks for all your info by the way.

 

[gkb101277867]

If they are qualified for 2, 3 years e.g Docter
If he is some Surgeon, then his monthly income is more then 2Lakh per month for sure.

Even a University department chairman in small cities are earning more than 2 Lakh per month.

If Docter is simple MBBS, he is having Gov job and a Private Clinic well then i must say his monthly income is around 3 Lakh or more.

It's way too easy for a Docter or a Good Lawyer to earn 2 lakh or more per month.

Hmmm that actually seems pretty good. Seems like once you have experience you are set. Although, I have heard of way too many stories of newly qualified doctors getting taking advantage of and working for 40 to 50 thousand a month

 

[Mamoon]

Hmmm that actually seems pretty good. Seems like once you have experience you are set. Although, I have heard of way too many stories of newly qualified doctors getting taking advantage of and working for 40 to 50 thousand a month

Yes that happens. I have been through it, you are made to work like a mule and paid peanuts. That is part of the process in Pakistan, and everyone has to go through it.

 

[Slog]

OP hasn't mentioned where he will be living

Obviously living expenses in Karachi will be much higher than let's say an Islamabad so that is the most important consideration

Mamoon - He is asking for expenses for a middle class lifestyle. Not your lifestyle. 5 lakhs per month is on the higher side of upper middle class (but below elite though)

 

[Slog]

On another note - Why does this topic or one of similar vein make an annual appearance?

 

[gkb101277867]

OP hasn't mentioned where he will be living

Obviously living expenses in Karachi will be much higher than let's say an Islamabad so that is the most important consideration

Mamoon - He is asking for expenses for a middle class lifestyle. Not your lifestyle. 5 lakhs per month is on the higher side of upper middle class (but below elite though)

Lahore

 

[gkb101277867]

On another note - Why does this topic or one of similar vein make an annual appearance?

I wasn't aware of it otherwise I wouldn't have created a new thread

 

[Mamoon]

OP hasn't mentioned where he will be living

Obviously living expenses in Karachi will be much higher than let's say an Islamabad so that is the most important consideration

Mamoon - He is asking for expenses for a middle class lifestyle. Not your lifestyle. 5 lakhs per month is on the higher side of upper middle class (but below elite though)

He said middle/upper-class. If we consider upper-class as elite-class, then my income bracket falls into middle/upper-class.

However as I said, it is arbitrary. Obviously 5 lakh/month is way above middle-class.

Not sure what my lifestyle and income level has anything to do with this thread.

 

[gkb101277867]

He said middle/upper-class. If we consider upper-class as elite-class, then my income bracket falls into middle/upper-class.

However as I said, it is arbitrary. Obviously 5 lakh/month is way above middle-class.

Not sure what my lifestyle and income level has anything to do with this thread.

I actually said middle class/upper middle class but it's cool bro

 

[PakLFC]

I think £100,000 would be sufficient. What do others here think? Quote in sterling.

 

[Nostalgic]

I remember the time when I won a scholarship paying 10,000 rupees a month. I was besides myself with joy, and couldn’t imagine what I would do with so much money. I would spend a total of 2,000 a month, mostly on one fancy monthly dinner, a haircut, a few books and CDs, and a few packs of Bensons, and felt guilty at the sheer decadence of my lifestyle.

 

[kingusama92]

I think £100,000 would be sufficient. What do others here think? Quote in sterling.

A year?

I'd imagine you're beyond comfortable with such an income.

 

[Mr.Q]

Does an above average or good job in Pakistan fetch 5 lakhs?! I mean, normally an above average job is supposed to get you a somewhat comfortable life.

Most guys here start their careers with salaries less than 1 lakh/month and they do everything the OP mentioned and more.

 

[PakWarrior]

I can't believe some of the figures that have been mentioned here in order to live a comfortable life in Pakistan.

5 lakh a month? That's over £3000 month!!! How on Earth are we equating that sort of income with a comfortable lifestyle in Pakistan??

5 lakh a month will give you an incredibly luxurious lifestyle in Pakistan and then some. But you don't need that sort of income to live a comfortable lifestyle.

People are living a comfortable lifestyle in Pakistan with 70 thousand rupees a month. This is without rent and assumes you have a few kids etc. Add another 30 thousand rupees for rent (obviously large cities will mean bigger rent and it also depends on the area). It would be better if you could buy your house outright to begin with.

Food costs on the whole (I say on the whole but bear in mind prices in McDonald's and even local Pizza takeaway etc are similar to UK, USA prices) in Pakistan are cheaper compared to UK and USA and a good comfortable lifestyle in the UK or USA does not mean that you need the same amount to have the same comfortable lifestyle in Pakistan. Far from it.

So I'd say if you have an income of say 70 to 80 thousand rupees a month in Pakistan (providing you have no rent to pay), with a wife and a few kids then you really are fine. It's comfortable if we define comfortable as having good food to eat, being able to pay the bills and still enjoy life to a pleasant level.

An income of between 1 lakh to 1.5 lakhs a month, with the same circumstances as above (and no rent to pay) will give you a fantastic lifestyle in Pakistan and you will have a good life Alhamdulillah. Add another 30 to 50 thousand rupees a month for house rent if you are renting then 2 lakh rupees a month will give you a very very comfortable life.

If you are one of those who need to spend and spend, eat out every day, have a few servants and really live it up a little then 2.5 to 3 lakhs a month will give you this and more. But I don't believe most people want to take it to this level. Those that do then really do need that 3 to 4 lakh a month income as they have built their lifestyle to such an extravagant level that they can't be comfortable living a slightly less extravagant but still comfortable lifestyle.

So all in all 80 thousand rupees to 1.5 lakh a month will do you fine.

 

[Mamoon]

I can't believe some of the figures that have been mentioned here in order to live a comfortable life in Pakistan.

5 lakh a month? That's over £3000 month!!! How on Earth are we equating that sort of income with a comfortable lifestyle in Pakistan??

5 lakh a month will give you an incredibly luxurious lifestyle in Pakistan and then some. But you don't need that sort of income to live a comfortable lifestyle.

People are living a comfortable lifestyle in Pakistan with 70 thousand rupees a month. This is without rent and assumes you have a few kids etc. Add another 30 thousand rupees for rent (obviously large cities will mean bigger rent and it also depends on the area). It would be better if you could buy your house outright to begin with.

Food costs on the whole (I say on the whole but bear in mind prices in McDonald's and even local Pizza takeaway etc are similar to UK, USA prices) in Pakistan are cheaper compared to UK and USA and a good comfortable lifestyle in the UK or USA does not mean that you need the same amount to have the same comfortable lifestyle in Pakistan. Far from it.

So I'd say if you have an income of say 70 to 80 thousand rupees a month in Pakistan (providing you have no rent to pay), with a wife and a few kids then you really are fine. It's comfortable if we define comfortable as having good food to eat, being able to pay the bills and still enjoy life to a pleasant level.

An income of between 1 lakh to 1.5 lakhs a month, with the same circumstances as above (and no rent to pay) will give you a fantastic lifestyle in Pakistan and you will have a good life Alhamdulillah. Add another 30 to 50 thousand rupees a month for house rent if you are renting then 2 lakh rupees a month will give you a very very comfortable life.

If you are one of those who need to spend and spend, eat out every day, have a few servants and really live it up a little then 2.5 to 3 lakhs a month will give you this and more. But I don't believe most people want to take it to this level. Those that do then really do need that 3 to 4 lakh a month income as they have built their lifestyle to such an extravagant level that they can't be comfortable living a slightly less extravagant but still comfortable lifestyle.

So all in all 80 thousand rupees to 1.5 lakh a month will do you fine.

30 thousand rent would give you a house/apartment that will not be livable at all, let alone a 3 bedroom flat that the OP is looking for.

My friend is paying 45k for a two bedroom apartment in F-10 Islamabad, and is very mediocre. A livable 3 bedroom flat will cost at least 60k. How will he survive on an income of 80k?

To live a moderate live in Pakistan when you are living on rent and don't own any property, you need at least 2 lakh rupees per month.

I mistook what the OP meant by upper-class life, which is why I quoted him a rough figure of 5 lakh rupees.

 

[Mamoon]

Does an above average or good job in Pakistan fetch 5 lakhs?! I mean, normally an above average job is supposed to get you a somewhat comfortable life.

Most guys here start their careers with salaries less than 1 lakh/month and they do everything the OP mentioned and more.

No it doesn't. In Pakistan, you will struggle to make ends meet unless you own a house. If you are paying rent, you will hardly have enough money to make savings or to invest.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Speaking as someone who falls in the middle class,2 lakhs per month is enough to run a small apartment with a couple of bedrooms/Ac's and fridge etc.However if you have children who go to private schools,income needs to be a bit higher.Normally,middle class families in Pakistan own bikes and 1/2 cars.2.5/3 lakhs is enough.

 

[gkb101277867]

Seems from the comments that you would need a minimum of 1 lac. I know of many stories of whole families where 6 or 7 people depend upon the salary of 1 person who is working. A lot of the time this salary is in the 20 to 30k range. I can't even imagine how that is even possible. It's physically impossible in my opinion so i have no idea how they get by

 

[PakWarrior]

Seems from the comments that you would need a minimum of 1 lac. I know of many stories of whole families where 6 or 7 people depend upon the salary of 1 person who is working. A lot of the time this salary is in the 20 to 30k range. I can't even imagine how that is even possible. It's physically impossible in my opinion so i have no idea how they get by

It's not physically impossible.

I know of many families with 5 kids with an income of 20 to 30k. Mainly living in villages. There is nothing wrong with living in the villages as it's a beautiful lifestyle in itself. Nowadays even the villages in Pakistan are advancing.

They obviously don't lead a luxurious life. They don't pay rent as they have inherited their houses or have built their homes slowly over the years. They normally don't own cars and get by with bikes or public transport just fine.

They have land and grow alot of their food and also as already mentioned vegetables, fruit and other basic essential foods in Pakistan are not that expensive.

They don't eat out much which is fine. They do their own cooking etc and Alhamdulillah just as much barkat and taste in their food as any high class eatery.

Yes some months do probably get tight for them and their kids don't go to expensive schools etc but as Allah works in mysterious ways, they usually get by just fine.

 

[Savak]

I have been living in Canada for 6 years now. My mother and sister just recently moved and I can tell you from experience that the middle class, upper middle class life style you can enjoy in Pakistan is much better and more luxurious compared to living in the West.

Heck your social life in Pakistan is much better in comparison to the West if you live in the West and decide not to mingle with the *****, party, go to social events where people will drink and if you decide to prevent your kids from being influenced by local influences.

Initially when I moved here in 2012, I was naturally excited to explore greener pastures but that phase has long passed and I now truly appreciate what it was like to live back home.

 

[Savak]

Does an above average or good job in Pakistan fetch 5 lakhs?! I mean, normally an above average job is supposed to get you a somewhat comfortable life.

Most guys here start their careers with salaries less than 1 lakh/month and they do everything the OP mentioned and more.

To get to Rs 500,000 you will need atleast 10-15 years of solid performance and hard work behind your belt. The expenses are now such that is the minimum amount you need to get by.

For e.g. in Defence the cost of hiring a driver is a min of Rs 20-25 k a month, a cook is Rs 15 k, a maid is probably Rs 6-10 k, then you have a gardener, security guard, a cleaner i.e. another Rs 20 k in total. So just for servants you will be paying around Rs 70-80 k atleast per month. Then you have the utilities, electricity in Pakistan is insanely expensive and in a household of lets say 5-8 people you can be paying in the 100,000 for electricity.

God forbid if you are living in an area where there is an electricity shortage, you will get a powerful generator, the one which requires fuel as well. Lets put the cost of running that generator at Rs 20,000 a month

In DHA we have a water problem, even though we pay taxes the DHA authorities do not supply water to the residents, the residents have to purchase the services of water tankers and now these guys charge close to Rs 10,000 per visit and you will require atleast 4 tankers a month depending on the no of people living in the house and how often water is used in the house

My parents tell me that cost of groceries and other bills is around Rs 150k a month

If you have kids you will be paying for their private school fees, university fees, tuitions

You will have the cost of vehicles, fuel, this is extremely under estimated and can easily cost up to Rs 75,000-100,000 depending on the no of cars at home and how frequently they are used

If you want to be healthy, be fit you will pay for the cost of using a gym, hiring a personal trainer

If you want to enjoy life with your family, friends, kids you will pay to eat out, go out shopping, go to watch movies

Looks like my dad wasn't kidding when he told me that in order to live comfortably in Pakistan and get by, you will need a minimum monthly income of Rs 500,000 a month

The only complaints and problems I had back home when I came back for 3 months were adjusting to the heat, humidity, the dust, allergies, the poor internet speeds/insufficient connectivity, water problems but one gets used to these issues as well in the long run.

 

[DeadBall]

I have been living in Canada for 6 years now. My mother and sister just recently moved and I can tell you from experience that the middle class, upper middle class life style you can enjoy in Pakistan is much better and more luxurious compared to living in the West.

Heck your social life in Pakistan is much better in comparison to the West if you live in the West and decide not to mingle with the *****, party, go to social events where people will drink and if you decide to prevent your kids from being influenced by local influences.

Initially when I moved here in 2012, I was naturally excited to explore greener pastures but that phase has long passed and I now truly appreciate what it was like to live back home.

Why don't you go back to wonderful 5 lacs per month income Pakistan then if life is so bad in the West? In fact your other relatives have also recently joined you. My social life is great in the West because I chose to assimilate into the fabric of society instead of crying about drinking and ironically worrying about my children being influenced by local influences when I am the reason they are there in the first place.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I suppose a family of 4 would need 3 lac at the very least to live comfortably. (I live here)

 

[Syed1]

I suppose a family of 4 would need 3 lac at the very least to live comfortably. (I live here)

3 lacs goes a long way in some place like Sarghoda but it would be just about upper middle class in some place like Islamabad.

 

[ExpressPacer]

3 lacs goes a long way in some place like Sarghoda but it would be just about upper middle class in some place like Islamabad.

I doubt it. Schools like Beaconhouse and City School would still have the same fee structure as that of the ones in Islamabad. Groceries would still cost the same. Servants charge the same more or less. Prices of cars would be the same and the cost of fuel would be the same. Actually, considering Sarghoda isn't the capital, I would assume business trips to Lahore and Islamabad would be the norm and therefore; toll charges on the motorway, fuel and maintenance costs of your car would be higher.

Islamabad isn't as effected by load-shedding as some other cities in Pakistan therefore would I assume that fuel costs for running the generator 12 hours a day would amount to a lot more than what it would cost in Islamabad, especially considering most houses don't really need a generator and do just fine with an AC considering the relatively cooler temperature and the less frequent power cuts.

The only thing in Sarghoda that would be cheaper is probably housing and I am still not too sure about that either. It depends on whether you're building your own house or renting. If you're building your own house, the costs would be the same whether you build your house in Islamabad or Sarghoda. If you're renting however, I would assume that rent would be cheaper in Sarghoda. It should be considered however the locality, the conveniences and comfort will be severely compromised in terms of the area and the environment.

 

[JaDed]

Does an above average or good job in Pakistan fetch 5 lakhs?! I mean, normally an above average job is supposed to get you a somewhat comfortable life.

Most guys here start their careers with salaries less than 1 lakh/month and they do everything the OP mentioned and more.

Yes , which is true but to buy any asset or automobile the person would be on a debt with that salary.

 

[gkb101277867]

A lot of different interpretations of "comfortable" being thrown about so i was wandering if I could change the qs.

What would be the minimum monthly salary required to meet the basic needs (no comforts) of a family who live in a rented 3 bedroom flat in a middle class area of Lahore?

Basic needs include rent, food, bills, clothing (nothing fancy) etc...

 

[Savak]

Why don't you go back to wonderful 5 lacs per month income Pakistan then if life is so bad in the West? In fact your other relatives have also recently joined you. My social life is great in the West because I chose to assimilate into the fabric of society instead of crying about drinking and ironically worrying about my children being influenced by local influences when I am the reason they are there in the first place.

Lol that Rs 500,000 plus x 3-4 is not my income, if it was I would move back in a heart beat. Once I get my CPA designation, I will get out

 

[DeadBall]

Lol that Rs 500,000 plus x 3-4 is not my income, if it was I would move back in a heart beat. Once I get my CPA designation, I will get out

Then why are you inducting (or letting) more family members into the mix if it is so bad.

A CPA needs people who pay their taxes in order to function which is almost non existent in Pakistan , so where will you be getting out to?

 

[Savak]

Then why are you inducting (or letting) more family members into the mix if it is so bad.

A CPA needs people who pay their taxes in order to function which is almost non existent in Pakistan , so where will you be getting out to?

My mother joined us because she couldn't live alone by herself in Pakistan.

Who says that CPA's only do public accounting? I would like to explore opportunities in Pakistani organizations, maybe branch out into teaching in the future.

 

[DeadBall]

My mother joined us because she couldn't live alone by herself in Pakistan.

Who says that CPA's only do public accounting? I would like to explore opportunities in Pakistani organizations, maybe branch out into teaching in the future.

Best of luck then.

 

[Sidilicious]

Why don't you go back to wonderful 5 lacs per month income Pakistan then if life is so bad in the West? In fact your other relatives have also recently joined you. My social life is great in the West because I chose to assimilate into the fabric of society instead of crying about drinking and ironically worrying about my children being influenced by local influences when I am the reason they are there in the first place.

He does have a point though. If you earn above a certain threshold, life in India/Pakistan is definitely better than that in the US/Europe. The difference though that in US/Europe a middle income/low income person will have a much much better standard of life and be treated like a human.

Also, the poster does not seem to like mingling much with non-Pakistanis (or at least not with Canadians). Then even at low to medium income level you will have a miserable life. If you move to a western country and not integrate or only stick with your culture, then you will have a miserable life.

What I am surprised at is why do people always equate mingling with locals with alcohol. I know a few Muslim friends in London who would go to the bar but not drink alcohol. Neither I nor any of our white colleagues forced them to drink. And they would happily hang around with us.

 

[kingusama92]

I have been living in Canada for 6 years now. My mother and sister just recently moved and I can tell you from experience that the middle class, upper middle class life style you can enjoy in Pakistan is much better and more luxurious compared to living in the West.

Heck your social life in Pakistan is much better in comparison to the West if you live in the West and decide not to mingle with the *****, party, go to social events where people will drink and if you decide to prevent your kids from being influenced by local influences.

Initially when I moved here in 2012, I was naturally excited to explore greener pastures but that phase has long passed and I now truly appreciate what it was like to live back home.

 

[Mamoon]

A lot of different interpretations of "comfortable" being thrown about so i was wandering if I could change the qs.

What would be the minimum monthly salary required to meet the basic needs (no comforts) of a family who live in a rented 3 bedroom flat in a middle class area of Lahore?

Basic needs include rent, food, bills, clothing (nothing fancy) etc...

1.5 lakhs at least.

 

[TQ89]

A lot of different interpretations of "comfortable" being thrown about so i was wandering if I could change the qs.

What would be the minimum monthly salary required to meet the basic needs (no comforts) of a family who live in a rented 3 bedroom flat in a middle class area of Lahore?

Basic needs include rent, food, bills, clothing (nothing fancy) etc...

Somewhere between 100K & 150K would be enough.

 

[Savak]

He does have a point though. If you earn above a certain threshold, life in India/Pakistan is definitely better than that in the US/Europe. The difference though that in US/Europe a middle income/low income person will have a much much better standard of life and be treated like a human.

Also, the poster does not seem to like mingling much with non-Pakistanis (or at least not with Canadians). Then even at low to medium income level you will have a miserable life. If you move to a western country and not integrate or only stick with your culture, then you will have a miserable life.

What I am surprised at is why do people always equate mingling with locals with alcohol. I know a few Muslim friends in London who would go to the bar but not drink alcohol. Neither I nor any of our white colleagues forced them to drink. And they would happily hang around with us.

This is a stupid thing to generalize that a middle income to low income person in Pakistan has a poor standard of living and is not treated like a human in Pakistan.

I have mingled and do mingle with a lot of local Canadians, befriended plenty of them and easily avoid drinking Alcohol, it doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy living in the West. Just as a sizeable number of people move from East to West, a decent number of people move back from the West.

Based on my observations of most of my cousins, family members in Canada and the US, my aunts and uncles do not allow my young cousins to mingle much with friends outside, its more or less like boxing them inside the house and as a result their social, networking skills are non-existent. Plus all my relatives just stick to meeting each other only or at the most they stick to Pakistani or Indian Circles but do not mix much with the local population. And i have also seen some go into severe depression seeing some of their young kids divert from Islam.

To each their own, i personally feel more at home in Pakistan.

 

[Smudger]

This is a stupid thing to generalize that a middle income to low income person in Pakistan has a poor standard of living and is not treated like a human in Pakistan.

I have mingled and do mingle with a lot of local Canadians, befriended plenty of them and easily avoid drinking Alcohol, it doesn't necessarily mean you enjoy living in the West. Just as a sizeable number of people move from East to West, a decent number of people move back from the West.

Based on my observations of most of my cousins, family members in Canada and the US, my aunts and uncles do not allow my young cousins to mingle much with friends outside, its more or less like boxing them inside the house and as a result their social, networking skills are non-existent. Plus all my relatives just stick to meeting each other only or at the most they stick to Pakistani or Indian Circles but do not mix much with the local population. And i have also seen some go into severe depression seeing some of their young kids divert from Islam.

To each their own, i personally feel more at home in Pakistan.

I too recently moved to canada with family but i miss living in pak. You know playing cricket, pakoras after rain, eid , ramadan.
I even cry sometimes but itis hard to survive in pak as a farmer

 

[Mr.Q]

No it doesn't. In Pakistan, you will struggle to make ends meet unless you own a house. If you are paying rent, you will hardly have enough money to make savings or to invest.

To get to Rs 500,000 you will need atleast 10-15 years of solid performance and hard work behind your belt. The expenses are now such that is the minimum amount you need to get by.

For e.g. in Defence the cost of hiring a driver is a min of Rs 20-25 k a month, a cook is Rs 15 k, a maid is probably Rs 6-10 k, then you have a gardener, security guard, a cleaner i.e. another Rs 20 k in total. So just for servants you will be paying around Rs 70-80 k atleast per month. Then you have the utilities, electricity in Pakistan is insanely expensive and in a household of lets say 5-8 people you can be paying in the 100,000 for electricity.

God forbid if you are living in an area where there is an electricity shortage, you will get a powerful generator, the one which requires fuel as well. Lets put the cost of running that generator at Rs 20,000 a month

In DHA we have a water problem, even though we pay taxes the DHA authorities do not supply water to the residents, the residents have to purchase the services of water tankers and now these guys charge close to Rs 10,000 per visit and you will require atleast 4 tankers a month depending on the no of people living in the house and how often water is used in the house

My parents tell me that cost of groceries and other bills is around Rs 150k a month

If you have kids you will be paying for their private school fees, university fees, tuitions

You will have the cost of vehicles, fuel, this is extremely under estimated and can easily cost up to Rs 75,000-100,000 depending on the no of cars at home and how frequently they are used

If you want to be healthy, be fit you will pay for the cost of using a gym, hiring a personal trainer

If you want to enjoy life with your family, friends, kids you will pay to eat out, go out shopping, go to watch movies

Looks like my dad wasn't kidding when he told me that in order to live comfortably in Pakistan and get by, you will need a minimum monthly income of Rs 500,000 a month

The only complaints and problems I had back home when I came back for 3 months were adjusting to the heat, humidity, the dust, allergies, the poor internet speeds/insufficient connectivity, water problems but one gets used to these issues as well in the long run.

Yes , which is true but to buy any asset or automobile the person would be on a debt with that salary.

I’m confused here [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. Either you guys are talking about a somewhat rich person or you’re comparing the upper middle class in the west to that of the one in India/Pakistan. Or is it a Pakistan specific issue as you don’t have a proper middle class? Only the rich and poor.

There are actually two-three tiers above the upper middle class here in India. Someone earning 5 lakhs + INR monthly is considered affluent here. He can afford a few low end luxuries. To be considered rich you need at least 5 crores INR annually which is somewhat close to $1M. Then there’s this elite league within the rich category with higher incomes and assets who are proper HNIs. High Networth Individuals. Above them are the insanely rich people who run the major corporations or business houses.

Upper or lower, a middle class guy is a middle class guy. Someone who leads a comfortable, satisfactory life. The typical upper middle class guy can afford a few expensive things, but he can’t afford every expensive thing.

Here’s my attempt to quickly break down the expenses of a typical young upper middle class couple in India. Suppose their combined income is ₹1.5L after tax.

Rent 25-30k for an apartment (in cities other than Mumbai). Utility bills 10k. Is it true that electricity bills can be up to 1 lakh there?! Household expenses 30k. [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] Nobody buys cars or fixed assets by spending liquid cash bro. Not even the über rich. Will explain that later if you don’t know why. Suppose they decide to buy a car under loan with a decent down payment. Anything from a Creta/City to a Jeep Compass would be affordable. EMI would be around 15k-20k. They can add another hatchback if they want. That’s still 25+10+30+20=95k. There’d still be around 50k left for misc expenses including dining out, some apparel hunting and some savings. Some of the numbers here are a bit exaggerated as a couple are unlikely to spend that much. [MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] membership at Golds’s gym or Talwalkars costs around 25k annually here without discounts and there will be an instructor to help you out. That’s only 2k/month. I’m assuming it’s similar in Pakistan too. Or are you talking about a full time fitness trainer like the ones celebs have?

My point is that people do lead very comfortable lives here with ₹1-1.5 lakh income. There are people who live comfortably with 75k too, although they don’t belong to the upper middle class tier.

I can’t understand why things aren’t similar in Pakistan. I’m not doing currency adjustment @ 1 : .57 as I’m sure many things are less expensive in Pakistan than in India.
[MENTION=147106]PakWarrior[/MENTION] has made some interesting points that make sense to me but many of you guys don’t seem to be in agreement with him.

 

[Pakistanian]

I have been living in Canada for 6 years now. My mother and sister just recently moved and I can tell you from experience that the middle class, upper middle class life style you can enjoy in Pakistan is much better and more luxurious compared to living in the West.

Heck your social life in Pakistan is much better in comparison to the West if you live in the West and decide not to mingle with the *****, party, go to social events where people will drink and if you decide to prevent your kids from being influenced by local influences.

Initially when I moved here in 2012, I was naturally excited to explore greener pastures but that phase has long passed and I now truly appreciate what it was like to live back home.

No it is not, don't kid yourself. You must have been either very priveleged or prefer the sedentary lifestyle in Pakistan.

 

[PakLFC]

A year?

I'd imagine you're beyond comfortable with such an income.

No! I mean £100,000 for an entire lifetime. That is sterling will take you a long way in Pak