How much time does Whatmore need?

Mamoon

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From the start, I was never in favour of appointing him as a coach because he is a generic coach and Pakistan cricket cannot work with one.

Bob Woolmer was an exception.

Initially, people said give him time and all that but it has been 1.5 years and he has done absolutely nothing.

What was he brought for and for what is he getting paid millions?

There is not a single area in our batting which has improved since he took charge.

1) We still can't rotate strike

2) Our running is still poor

3) Our shot selection is still pathetic

4) We fall into the traps set by the opposition very easily, still

That alone is enough to deem Whatmore a flop and please, the time excuse doesn't work any more. 1.5 years is more than enough to exert your influence on the team.

If you blame the selectors for persisting with tried and tested failures, Whatmore needed to man up and have talks with them over what the team needed and what combinations they had to go with.

He is a big name in the coaching circuit and should have made his presence felt to the selectors and showcased his importance but sadly, he has been a passenger who has had no influence on the team.

Sometimes it is so easy to forget that he is the coach and it doesn't help when he shies away from the media all the time and doesn't have anything to say.

But at the end of the day, perhaps this is what you get when you appoint a guy who is still living off what he achieved 17 years ago.

All he did in the last 17 years was coach minnows and have a mediocre stint in IPL, not forgetting the poor second stint with Sri Lanka.
 
I was his fan. But even I am starting to question his use. His tactics are just pathetic. In today's one day game where batsmen can bat at a quicker rate, our guys still play like its 92. Such a mentality destroys any talent we have. Jamshed now looks like a scared duck in water when batting.

Either his tactics suck or the selectors are not giving him the players he wants. Someone is to blame for the state of our team.
 
SL won the world cup under him- we need to stop selecting tried and tested failures.
 
SL won the world cup under him- we need to stop selecting tried and tested failures.


That was 17 years ago! a completely different era!

Even Intikhab won us two World Cups but we all know how mediocre a coach he was with little to no influence.
 
I have said this again and again. I honestly think he was a lucky coach the first time around with SL. That was a team with a bunch of stars in the making, Sanath, murali, atapattu, vaas, etc. What did he do when he spent years with BD? What has he done for Pak? I don't rate him that highly as a coach and think he is overrated to be honest.

This is not a knee jerk reaction, this has been my feeling for quite some time.
 
I was his fan. But even I am starting to question his use. His tactics are just pathetic. In today's one day game where batsmen can bat at a quicker rate, our guys still play like its 92. Such a mentality destroys any talent we have. Jamshed now looks like a scared duck in water when batting.

Either his tactics suck or the selectors are not giving him the players he wants. Someone is to blame for the state of our team.


The problem is that he has exerted absolutely no influence and personality on the team.
 
I was his fan. But even I am starting to question his use. His tactics are just pathetic. In today's one day game where batsmen can bat at a quicker rate, our guys still play like its 92. Such a mentality destroys any talent we have. Jamshed now looks like a scared duck in water when batting.

Either his tactics suck or the selectors are not giving him the players he wants. Someone is to blame for the state of our team.
Agree with this . What happened to that biomechanic lab ?
 
Never was his fan and never will be.

It was between him and Dean Jones to be selected for the position and I ALWAYS supported Dean Jones. ALWAYS !!
 
I have said this again and again. I honestly think he was a lucky coach the first time around with SL. That was a team with a bunch of stars in the making, Sanath, murali, atapattu, vaas, etc. What did he do when he spent years with BD? What has he done for Pak? I don't rate him that highly as a coach and think he is overrated to be honest.

This is not a knee jerk reaction, this has been my feeling for quite some time.

Knee jerking can't take place after 1.5 years. I agree with you.
 
Not his fault that players like Farsh!t keep getting selected. He can only work with what he has got. It's the job of the selectors to pick the right team, not his.
 
It is time for Dav to impose himself on the team.

I tweeted him after the SA tour to bring in young talent into the team.

I hope after this he gets the go ahead to induct a number of young talented batsmen.
 
Not his fault that players like Farsh!t keep getting selected. He can only work with what he has got. It's the job of the selectors to pick the right team, not his.

True to an extent, but what about the on field tactics? Asking Farhat to see off the new ball is a mouse waiting to get eaten. its best to let him play his natural game and pray he actually makes 30 before getting out
 
Dav Whatmore

Is that it? What can he do if pakistan keep selecting hopless players
 
Not his fault that players like Farsh!t keep getting selected. He can only work with what he has got. It's the job of the selectors to pick the right team, not his.


And he just sat their watching like a teddy bear?

He should have figured out what the team needs and had it discussed with the selectors. Why did he let it all happen?
 
You hire a professor from Harvad University and give him a donkey and a million dollars and ask him make the donkey read a book.
 
You can't blame the coach for selection, its not like they have a final say. of course they do get to give input but the final 15 isn't always their choice.

More over he hasn't got to work with a newish team, its the same team that has struggled to bat for last 5 years and keeps getting selected.
 
And he just sat their watching like a teddy bear?

He should have figured out what the team needs and had it discussed with the selectors. Why did he let it all happen?

Again, it's not his job to select the team. That is what the selectors are for. His job is to work on the players' weaknesses. Under him and Fountain, are our fielding has improved drastically. Misbah, with all his faults, has learned to rotate strike better. But he can only work with what he has. Players like Malik, Farhat and Hafeez are beyond coaching help.
 
You could have been more creative in title. Like What more for Whatmore?
 
Either his tactics suck or the selectors are not giving him the players he wants. Someone is to blame for the state of our team.

Then he should come out and state so. He is authoritative and senior enough to be able to do so.

Doing nothing whilst accepting the ills, if any, from the PCB only means that he should have no problem in folks opining that he is in fact, useless.
 
Again, it's not his job to select the team. That is what the selectors are for. His job is to work on the players' weaknesses. Under him and Fountain, are our fielding has improved drastically. Misbah, with all his faults, has learned to rotate strike better. But he can only work with what he has. Players like Malik, Farhat and Hafeez are beyond coaching help.


It is not his job but he has enough credibility (as a world cup winner) to state his authority and tell the selectors what he needs. He hasn't done that either.

He has been a passenger.
 
What can the coach do when there are no good players in the team? If Whatmore coached South Africa or India right now, do you think they would suck? NO!

Our team is just at its lowest all time. As an international coach, you can't teach people to rotate strike and all those kind of basics..being at that level, they should know all of those things and just need little bit of mental advice and little tinkering.
 
I have said this a million times, Pakistan does not need such a lame duck type of coach. Our batting has made every single joe shmoe look world class under his tenure.
 
He's the best coach going around . What do you suggest as a replacement? You? Or let me guess intikab Alan? Lol
 
Then he should come out and state so. He is authoritative and senior enough to be able to do so.

Doing nothing whilst accepting the ills, if any, from the PCB only means that he should have no problem in folks opining that he is in fact, useless.

Yes you are right, that's what I said in my posts. Misbah is the problem because he keeps picking farhat, hafeez, Malik, akmal. He's a disgrace, and should be sacked.
 
It is not his job

Exactly. Your argument makes no sense as you want him to be fired for doing the selectors job as well. Whatmore has placed his trust in the selectors as he feels they are better equipped to choose the right players. It might be misplaced, but it is not in his remit watch every domestic match and see who deserves to wear the green.

That is the selectors' job and they have failed massively. And Whatmore is a human who needs to earn a living. He is qualified to coach, and that is what he is doing. He may feel that if he brings up some discord with the PCB goons, then he may find himself out of a job.

Name me one coach in the international arena who you think is involved in selection.
 
I personally dont think he has much of a say....i think he is trying to keep the seniors happy so he stays in the job...
 
whatmore cannot do anything players have to perform on the field and they failed to do so.
 
Never liked him

When Pakistan are getting battered this guy is sometimes seen eating fruit

I want to see a big personality like Akram given the job. Someone who actually feels bad when Pakistan lose.
 
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Whatmore should be fired.
Mohsin Khan should be hired back.
 
disgusted with this guy......after the whitewash of england in 2012 it was thought we would go from strength to strength.........all this guy has done is made us regress....should be sacked immediately.....under his coaching KKR were a flop in IPL and we took no notice. Mohsin Khan should never have been shown the door after that England series.
 
Dav improved Sri Lanka who went on to win 1996 world cup. Bangladesh had a great 2007 world cup under him beating the likes of India and South Africa. He also helped India to an U-19 world cup. His CV is peerless. If Pakistani superstars don't want to learn from him and think they know everything, he can't do anything. Besides, there are probably higher forces at work preventing him from successfully doing his job.
 
Never liked him

When Pakistan are getting battered this guy is sometimes seen eating fruit

I want to see a big personality like Akram given the job. Someone who actually feels bad when Pakistan lose.

And what credential does Akram have to be a coach? A magic wand?

Everytime the players underperforn, the coach gets the blame. It's the same after every major tournament. Pathetic.
 
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If Dav Whatmore was now filling in his annual review form and sat with his bosses at the PCB for a normal work appraisal. What would he have to ssy for himself?

I for one was a big backer of his for the coaching job but I cannot see any input at all from him thus far

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why blame him.. blame the selectors that keep selecting rubbish players and want them to be recycled by whatmore that's not going to happen.. give him young players who are eager to learn and tell them that play your shots otherwise you will lost your wicket and the scorecard is going to be constant
 
Keep sacking and punishing coach after coach yet ignore what the main problem is, the Governing body known as the PCB.

If they don't change we won't change, no matter if we had Andy Flower or Duncan Fletcher.
 
Hopefully this will serve as a wake up call to the PCB and the new govt to make reforms and put THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN THE RIGHT PLACES.

Dav is a great coach, all he needs is selectors with vision and to be fearless to try youth.
 
He's the best coach going around . What do you suggest as a replacement? You? Or let me guess intikab Alan? Lol


If he is the best coach around then I really feel horribly bad for cricket.

I don't believe it is hard to replace a passenger.
 
Dav improved Sri Lanka who went on to win 1996 world cup. Bangladesh had a great 2007 world cup under him beating the likes of India and South Africa. He also helped India to an U-19 world cup. His CV is peerless. If Pakistani superstars don't want to learn from him and think they know everything, he can't do anything. Besides, there are probably higher forces at work preventing him from successfully doing his job.


I wonder why a world cup winning coach with a PEERLESS CV failed to land a job at quality international team for 16 years.

Well it is easy to ignore his sorry second stint with SL.
 
why blame him.. blame the selectors that keep selecting rubbish players and want them to be recycled by whatmore that's not going to happen.. give him young players who are eager to learn and tell them that play your shots otherwise you will lost your wicket and the scorecard is going to be constant

Not blaming him for the debacle entirely but what ia his role?

Lets not go into selection because he can only deal with the crap he has been given.

But have you seen any tactical shift in the batting?
Do you see any new ideas or approach to the batting?
Has he said anything about guys like farhat and akmal who day after day keep getting out in the same manner?



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Not blaming him for the debacle entirely but what ia his role?

Lets not go into selection because he can only deal with the crap he has been given.

But have you seen any tactical shift in the batting?
Do you see any new ideas or approach to the batting?
Has he said anything about guys like farhat and akmal who day after day keep getting out in the same manner?



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This.
 
this guy has done us some gud but some bad too, many of u have summed it up, but now we need a new team and coach that can continue till the 2015 world cup, and start rebuilding from now.
 
Pakistan need to appoint a solid head coach at the national academy , some one like Steve Waugh , gooch , geoff Marsh .

Also probably negotiate with Dean Jones , Tom Moody to be head coach.

:waqar should be appointed a bowling coach.

Tom and :waqar were very good in IPl with a mediocre team ......
 
What about Dav Whatmore?

I have not seen anyone talk about Whatmore here. What is his job so far as a head coach of this poot team? Before he joined we were still performing a bit, now the graph has gone down to zero. I dont see this man taking responsibility or holding the bull by the horn. He is known to be very tough cookie but here I even did not know whether he was still the coach, he was so much behind the scenes. Is it the end of the road for Whatmore, Dave No-more?
 
Take Ganguly and Dravid to join Cricket Academy.

If Wasim can come and give his knowledge to Indian bowlers, why can't these ATGs help Pakistani batsmen ?

Whatmore can continue as the national coach.

Other option is can some of these Pakistani batsmen come to Indian academy and practice for sometime and vice versa for Indian bowlers ? :)
 
People seem to be missing the point.

There arent too many who want to live in Pakistan !
 
Whatmore has failed badly. What has he actually done to improve the team. He is just there getting a salary. Should be sacked after India match.
 
Greater emphasis needs to be done on Batting. Search the globe (including India) for talented batsmen. If England can select Irish, scots, Danish,Zimbabweans, SAfricans,Australians , Indians, Sri Lankans and Pakistanis in their side, then Pakistan can take this approach. It obvious that Pak first class cricket(for whatever reasons)is not producing good batsmen.
 
Why PCB doesn't ask Wasim Waqar & Moin Khan for their services.
 
Have seen no improvement in batting technique or approach. In fact it's got worse. I don't blame him for selection, he likely isn't the guy pushing for these players.

We need to give the coach one last chance IMO, and give him full selection powers. Let him pick the team and anyone he likes to be brought into the squad. Misbah shouldn't have a say in the team selection. Lots of very good captains didn't have a say. Ponting I remember didn't have any say, and I'm sure other captains from Australia, might be the same.

If the coach doesn't start performing having given full power, then he needs to be chucked out.

The thing is Whatmore is a proven coach, lots of coaching credentials. He should be able to help us. The other alternatives are guys who don't have much of a record or coach credentials.

Our head coach should be primarily batting based, not bowling. That's why I don't support guys like Wasim coming in and coaching.

There actually aren't many real stand out coaches at the moment. A lot of coaches go through periods where they've sucked with a team, and then excelled with another. It's unfortunate we're not doing as well as we hoped with Whatmore atm, but that could change.

The only two coaches really standing out that any team would love to have is Flower and Kirsten. Both who are currently coaching teams.

The first thing we have to do is change the selectors, and B change the captain (in ODIs). It's all well and good blaming the selectors, but if Misbah himself is asking for Malik (when selectors originally didn't want him) and then not picking umar Akmal in his team (when Selectors did have him in the squad for India and SA and he was on the bench), then not much selectors can do. Misbah needs to see sense and drop these seniors. And if he's scared of losing captaincy as a result of doing that, we need to pick a captain who isn't scared of that.
 
People seem to be missing the point.

There arent too many who want to live in Pakistan !

That is the main issue.

Pakistan should look for a coach who is good with batting side , is not too old or outdated.
 
Guy has not helped our team. Nothing has improved. Time for him to step aside!

We need some talented coach with a plan.
 
People seem to be missing the point.

There arent too many who want to live in Pakistan !

Why not go for a local coach then? Who would be much cheaper in terms of his pay and won't do a worse job than Whatmore.
 
Perhaps Whatmore's been in the sub-continent for so long that he's become easy-going as well. :)
 
I get the hate for Whatmore atm but you can hardly blame Woodhill. He's just bloody joined :))

his purpose was to help pak batsmen in icc champions trophy which he has not done i would even say that our batting has regressed since last time we played
 
his purpose was to help pak batsmen in icc champions trophy which he has not done i would even say that our batting has regressed since last time we played

What can a guy do in 2 weeks when others fail to do anything in almost 2 years?
 
From the start, I was never in favour of appointing him as a coach because he is a generic coach and Pakistan cricket cannot work with one.

Bob Woolmer was an exception.

Initially, people said give him time and all that but it has been 1.5 years and he has done absolutely nothing.

What was he brought for and for what is he getting paid millions?

There is not a single area in our batting which has improved since he took charge.

1) We still can't rotate strike

2) Our running is still poor

3) Our shot selection is still pathetic

4) We fall into the traps set by the opposition very easily, still

That alone is enough to deem Whatmore a flop and please, the time excuse doesn't work any more. 1.5 years is more than enough to exert your influence on the team.

If you blame the selectors for persisting with tried and tested failures, Whatmore needed to man up and have talks with them over what the team needed and what combinations they had to go with.

He is a big name in the coaching circuit and should have made his presence felt to the selectors and showcased his importance but sadly, he has been a passenger who has had no influence on the team.

Sometimes it is so easy to forget that he is the coach and it doesn't help when he shies away from the media all the time and doesn't have anything to say.

But at the end of the day, perhaps this is what you get when you appoint a guy who is still living off what he achieved 17 years ago.

All he did in the last 17 years was coach minnows and have a mediocre stint in IPL, not forgetting the poor second stint with Sri Lanka.

Completely agree.

It was the same under Lawson. No change whatsoever. I just don't think foreign coaches are allowed to have an influence for some odd reason they shy away from making the big decisions.

Waqar atleast improved out discipline in bowling while he was head coach and the youngsters all looked up to him. We also saw some youngsters be given opportunities.

Was expecting Whatmore to put his foot down and get rid of the charbi in our team but he has done nothing but bow to the will of the selectors it seems.
 
What can a guy do in 2 weeks when others fail to do anything in almost 2 years?

then hiring him was a waste of money he was given a very specific task which he has not done so he should get fired if anything his advice has been worse then good
 
his purpose was to help pak batsmen in icc champions trophy which he has not done i would even say that our batting has regressed since last time we played

You don't think that has anything to do with the batsmen he has to work with?

What's that saying? Can't polish a turd?
 
People seem to be missing the point.

There arent too many who want to live in Pakistan !

But we don't even play in Pakistan. Most of their time is spent abroad anyway.
 
You don't think that has anything to do with the batsmen he has to work with?

What's that saying? Can't polish a turd?

his goal was to make out batsmen better at batting even if an improvement of 5 runs to their average would of done something but instead of improving anything the batsmen have done worse than before
 
his goal was to make out batsmen better at batting even if an improvement of 5 runs to their average would of done something but instead of improving anything the batsmen have done worse than before

In a fortnight? You know how much of an improvement would be needed to increase someone's batting average by 5 runs? Esp for these 'seniors'
 
Frickin ell, how anybody can claim that this guy is 'the best coach around' when guys like Gary Kirsten and Andy Flower are in the business is quite beyond me.
 
Make :dav head coach of academy and U/ 19 .......... let him work with upcoming players , you will see improvement in upcoming players.
 
Frickin ell, how anybody can claim that this guy is 'the best coach around' when guys like Gary Kirsten and Andy Flower are in the business is quite beyond me.

Yes stupid really.
 
Ideally i would want someone like Wasim Akram as our head coach or Inzamam. These personalities are well respected and the players listen to them. Also, they'll gave a major influence on the selectors as well.

If we need to go foreign, Dean Jones has shown a lot of desire to coach Pakistan and there's little doubt in my mind he'd be a far better option than Whatmore.
 
the real question is how much time does he have left?

I have always rated him extremely highly but he has been very disappointing so far, and agree with many when they say that the team has not shown any progress in his tenure.

maybe the CT was the tipping point and we will finally see some new blood injected into the team and Whatmore can truly mould the side.
 
Frickin ell, how anybody can claim that this guy is 'the best coach around' when guys like Gary Kirsten and Andy Flower are in the business is quite beyond me.

James - we have an issue in Pakistan. No foreign coaches will come to Pakistan.

Dav Whatmore coached SL - they are no minnows.
 
If we need to go foreign, Dean Jones has shown a lot of desire to coach Pakistan .

Dean applied for coach position , I think he had No coaching credentials that is why he was discarded.

may be a good choice , but I think first need to get him in as a Batting consultant and see how he does.
 
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