How will Pakistan take 20 wickets in Tests outside Pakistan?

[Abid Z]

Really feel gutted today. The tests showed good fight but not enough over 5 days. Whatever the flaws of the batters and captain one thing sticks out like a sore thumb. Pak bowling attack is completely innocuous and toothless and it will struggle against good sides again and again. Without the ability to take 20 wickets we can never win a match.

This is what I see. But a caveat. Nobody is undroppable and we need a squad of about 10 bowlers rotated around different formats. Of these formats Tests worries me the most. So let’s focus there.

Currently Our two best bowlers by a country mile are SAJID AND NAUMAN bowling in tandem. I don’t care that people think it doesn’t spin in South Africa it absolutely does. (Some grounds more than others). They need to come back and we need to build around them.

We should always play our best bowlers and try to take the game into the 4/5th day. Our batsmen (and a lot of Asian batsmen can’t bat long enough to take the game deep) this needs to be strategised properly.

Amir Jamal is the all rounder. Like him or not I don’t see anybody challenging him just yet but boy does he need to improve. I know he warmed the bench during limited overs and then came out to bowl but he needs to get himself sorted. But even then think about international level all rounders and then him…there is clear daylight.

SSA is our best seamer. He can’t be everywhere all at once. Manage his workload and find him a partner. Otherwise he’s going to be ground down.

Naseem and KS are identical only one needs to partner SSA. They need a lot of development to be better at threatening the stumps. There is no point in having the skills but not landing the ball 6 out of 6 balls on the spot. They have a 4 ball every over.

Abbass and Mir hamza are one dimensional. They are good at line and length bowling but that’s it. The coaches need to work out how to get the best out of them. When they don’t get a wicket they look toothless.

And that’s it. This is not an attack that will give anybody sleepless nights. Really I thought we had the worst attack 10 years ago in rahat Ali and sohail khan but right now it’s even worse.

 

[Aqib_mustafa]

Really feel gutted today. The tests showed good fight but not enough over 5 days. Whatever the flaws of the batters and captain one thing sticks out like a sore thumb. Pak bowling attack is completely innocuous and toothless and it will struggle against good sides again and again. Without the ability to take 20 wickets we can never win a match.

This is what I see. But a caveat. Nobody is undroppable and we need a squad of about 10 bowlers rotated around different formats. Of these formats Tests worries me the most. So let’s focus there.

Currently Our two best bowlers by a country mile are SAJID AND NAUMAN bowling in tandem. I don’t care that people think it doesn’t spin in South Africa it absolutely does. (Some grounds more than others). They need to come back and we need to build around them.

We should always play our best bowlers and try to take the game into the 4/5th day. Our batsmen (and a lot of Asian batsmen can’t bat long enough to take the game deep) this needs to be strategised properly.

Amir Jamal is the all rounder. Like him or not I don’t see anybody challenging him just yet but boy does he need to improve. I know he warmed the bench during limited overs and then came out to bowl but he needs to get himself sorted. But even then think about international level all rounders and then him…there is clear daylight.

SSA is our best seamer. He can’t be everywhere all at once. Manage his workload and find him a partner. Otherwise he’s going to be ground down.

Naseem and KS are identical only one needs to partner SSA. They need a lot of development to be better at threatening the stumps. There is no point in having the skills but not landing the ball 6 out of 6 balls on the spot. They have a 4 ball every over.

Abbass and Mir hamza are one dimensional. They are good at line and length bowling but that’s it. The coaches need to work out how to get the best out of them. When they don’t get a wicket they look toothless.

And that’s it. This is not an attack that will give anybody sleepless nights. Really I thought we had the worst attack 10 years ago in rahat Ali and sohail khan but right now it’s even worse.

True bro thats what i am trying to explain pak fans sajid and noman are your best bowlers period i dont want to hear this same boring stuff it doesn't spin in south africa but had these 2 played they would have won pak series i know it wont spin like pitches in pak but they would have south african batsmen played false shots with their variations and we all know south africa dont fancy spin bowling you can see how much they struggle to pick abrar and sufiyan in odis i think aqib got it wrong he should just have played both sajid and noman here.

 

[Farabi]

Really feel gutted today. The tests showed good fight but not enough over 5 days. Whatever the flaws of the batters and captain one thing sticks out like a sore thumb. Pak bowling attack is completely innocuous and toothless and it will struggle against good sides again and again. Without the ability to take 20 wickets we can never win a match.

This is what I see. But a caveat. Nobody is undroppable and we need a squad of about 10 bowlers rotated around different formats. Of these formats Tests worries me the most. So let’s focus there.

Currently Our two best bowlers by a country mile are SAJID AND NAUMAN bowling in tandem. I don’t care that people think it doesn’t spin in South Africa it absolutely does. (Some grounds more than others). They need to come back and we need to build around them.

We should always play our best bowlers and try to take the game into the 4/5th day. Our batsmen (and a lot of Asian batsmen can’t bat long enough to take the game deep) this needs to be strategised properly.

Amir Jamal is the all rounder. Like him or not I don’t see anybody challenging him just yet but boy does he need to improve. I know he warmed the bench during limited overs and then came out to bowl but he needs to get himself sorted. But even then think about international level all rounders and then him…there is clear daylight.

SSA is our best seamer. He can’t be everywhere all at once. Manage his workload and find him a partner. Otherwise he’s going to be ground down.

Naseem and KS are identical only one needs to partner SSA. They need a lot of development to be better at threatening the stumps. There is no point in having the skills but not landing the ball 6 out of 6 balls on the spot. They have a 4 ball every over.

Abbass and Mir hamza are one dimensional. They are good at line and length bowling but that’s it. The coaches need to work out how to get the best out of them. When they don’t get a wicket they look toothless.

And that’s it. This is not an attack that will give anybody sleepless nights. Really I thought we had the worst attack 10 years ago in rahat Ali and sohail khan but right now it’s even worse.

I agree with most of what you said.

We don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

We need fast bowlers who can land 6 out of 6 balls in the channel with the ability to move it both ways off the seam. If they have pace too, that’s great. But if not, that’s fine too. But no compromise on basics.

Based on this description, only Abbas is capable of doing that, with Mir Hamza on his better days.

The others simply lack the control to be effective at this level, specially Naseem and KS. They also lack fitness to last more than 1 or 2 sessions at peak perf.

Khurram Shahzad’s skill-levels are good. He’s worth investing in because he has a good seam presentation but his control goes out the window after first spell.

Mohammad Musa should be in contention given he has both control and pace, going by his recent FC record.

I think Shaheen Shah Afridi’s workload should be prioritized to favor test cricket and ICC tournaments. He is not needed in meaningless bilateral T20Is.

Away:
Nauman Ali (should always play)
Abbas (the only test pacer we have)
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Mir Hamza / Musa

Back up : KS

Home:
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Abbas
Nauman Ali
Sajid Khan

Backup Musa / KS

 

[Mamoon]

Spinners will always be in play on a pitch where 400+ runs are scored. Also, Cape Town has historically provided assistance for spinners.

Pakistan should have played Sajid or Nouman on a pitch where Agha bowled 38 overs in the first innings.

No pitch is bad enough to concede 600+. It is just poor bowling and captaincy.

 

[Farabi]

True bro thats what i am trying to explain pak fans sajid and noman are your best bowlers period i dont want to hear this same boring stuff it doesn't spin in south africa but had these 2 played they would have won pak series i know it wont spin like pitches in pak but they would have south african batsmen played false shots with their variations and we all know south africa dont fancy spin bowling you can see how much they struggle to pick abrar and sufiyan in odis i think aqib got it wrong he should just have played both sajid and noman here.

Yup. It was a huge miss not to play at least 1 of them. Nauman Ali should be playing every single test match.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Pakistani pacers aren't really pacers.

Despite bowling well in the first test, the lack of pace is truly telling. Maphaka is by no means, the finished article, however his pace helped him get wickets despite the poor batsmanship.

Rabada is top quality and bowls like it. But gets good pace.

Pakistan have pacers who aren't able to hit 140kph in Test cricket on a regular basis potentially discounting Rauf, but he's a LOI bowler.

Akif Javed, Hasnain & Wasim Jnr should have played some first class cricket this season(despite the constant chopping & changing of the structure) to get used to bowling long spells despite coming from injury layoffs.

Besides pace, South African pacers were fitter, which Pakistan's pacer aren't really. No coach can teach that into players, specially if the mentality is appalling.

 

[Abid Z]

I agree with most of what you said.

We don’t need to reinvent the wheel.

We need fast bowlers who can land 6 out of 6 balls in the channel with the ability to move it both ways off the seam. If they have pace too, that’s great. But if not, that’s fine too. But no compromise on basics.

Based on this description, only Abbas is capable of doing that, with Mir Hamza on his better days.

The others simply lack the control to be effective at this level, specially Naseem and KS. They also lack fitness to last more than 1 or 2 sessions at peak perf.

Khurram Shahzad’s skill-levels are good. He’s worth investing in because he has a good seam presentation but his control goes out the window after first spell.

Mohammad Musa should be in contention given he has both control and pace, going by his recent FC record.

I think Shaheen Shah Afridi’s workload should be prioritized to favor test cricket and ICC tournaments. He is not needed in meaningless bilateral T20Is.

Away:
Nauman Ali (should always play)
Abbas (the only test pacer we have)
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Mir Hamza / Musa

Back up : KS

Home:
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Abbas
Nauman Ali
Sajid Khan

Backup Musa / KS

I agree with most of what you wrote.

Firstly SPIN IN South Africa. The tour is over but prior to the tour it was clear that bowlers like ajmal, Paul Adams, mehraj have a good record in South Africa. It often gets said that warne and Murali could bowl anywhere even on a sheet of glass and get spin but even Paul Harris who barely spun got wickets. Sajid and Nauman are thinking attacking spinners. They get drift in the and can beat batsmen in flight. They would have been a handful on any day 3,4 or 5 pitch. Even in day 1&2 they know how to play a containing role.

So abbas is fine with them. I have no issues with him being one dimensional.

And SSA should just stick to tests and the occasional one day series but absolutely not t20’s. Pak only play about 10 tests a year he does need some kind of competitive cricket.

But the rest, Naseem , Khurram every other bowler they are so far from test level that I’m just pulling my hair out. We need about 4 others that compete for spots.

My worry is
A) that Windies will come and again we will look at the short term. Saj, noman SSA and one other to win the series
B) after that series is done we will just think about limited overs and bowlers who forget about keeping it tight neglecting that we need a squad. Right now if SSA is injured we actually have no world class seamer.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan should select Sajid Khan in Test regardless of pitch condition. He is a fighter.

 

[Farabi]

Pakistani pacers aren't really pacers.

Despite bowling well in the first test, the lack of pace is truly telling. Maphaka is by no means, the finished article, however his pace helped him get wickets despite the poor batsmanship.

Rabada is top quality and bowls like it. But gets good pace.

Pakistan have pacers who aren't able to hit 140kph in Test cricket on a regular basis potentially discounting Rauf, but he's a LOI bowler.

Akif Javed, Hasnain & Wasim Jnr should have played some first class cricket this season(despite the constant chopping & changing of the structure) to get used to bowling long spells despite coming from injury layoffs.

Besides pace, South African pacers were fitter, which Pakistan's pacer aren't really. No coach can teach that into players, specially if the mentality is appalling.

For starters, we need to drop this lazy approach of assessing fast bowling success and failure in terms of pace and pace alone. There’s more to fast bowling, particularly in test cricket.

Mapakha was all over the place and no more effective than Mir Hamza or Abbas based on final output.

I can gurantee you that with their control, Hasnain and Wasim Junior would have been dispatched as well. Shaheen and Naseem used to get dispatched in SENA and home all the time even when they were bowling 140+ KPH as well.

We need to talk more about control and variation, with pace being a supplementary skill, not the other way around.

 

[ElRaja]

you just need to play lots of test cricket so bowlers learn the discipline to take 20 test wickets. its not rocket science, if ur pace attack is always averaging around 150 test wickets between 4 pacers you'll never have the knowledge or experience on the pitch for all scenarios.

pak batsmen will never learn to play long innings, and pak bowlers will never learn bowling discipline as long as they play 5 or 6 tests a year.

 

[Farabi]

I agree with most of what you wrote.

Firstly SPIN IN South Africa. The tour is over but prior to the tour it was clear that bowlers like ajmal, Paul Adams, mehraj have a good record in South Africa. It often gets said that warne and Murali could bowl anywhere even on a sheet of glass and get spin but even Paul Harris who barely spun got wickets. Sajid and Nauman are thinking attacking spinners. They get drift in the and can beat batsmen in flight. They would have been a handful on any day 3,4 or 5 pitch. Even in day 1&2 they know how to play a containing role.

So abbas is fine with them. I have no issues with him being one dimensional.

And SSA should just stick to tests and the occasional one day series but absolutely not t20’s. Pak only play about 10 tests a year he does need some kind of competitive cricket.

But the rest, Naseem , Khurram every other bowler they are so far from test level that I’m just pulling my hair out. We need about 4 others that compete for spots.

My worry is
A) that Windies will come and again we will look at the short term. Saj, noman SSA and one other to win the series
B) after that series is done we will just think about limited overs and bowlers who forget about keeping it tight neglecting that we need a squad. Right now if SSA is injured we actually have no world class seamer.

We need to keep it simple. Get 4 bowlers who can bowl tight for long spells and build pressure, and wickets will automatically come.

These modern batters have no patience. Just don’t give them boundary balls, which our pacers cannot resist doing because they have no control and fitness.

Remove unnecessary complication “140 kph, enforcer” blah blah there is no Rabada in Pakistan. Just tighten the pressure valves.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

you just need to play lots of test cricket so bowlers learn the discipline to take 20 test wickets. its not rocket science, if ur pace attack is always averaging around 150 test wickets between 4 pacers you'll never have the knowledge or experience on the pitch for all scenarios.

pak batsmen will never learn to play long innings, and pak bowlers will never learn bowling discipline as long as they play 5 or 6 tests a year.

I think this is the final excuse left for us.

Sri Lanka, West Indies, Bangladesh all play less than us and manage to win here and there.

 

[Abid Z]

Pakistani pacers aren't really pacers.

Despite bowling well in the first test, the lack of pace is truly telling. Maphaka is by no means, the finished article, however his pace helped him get wickets despite the poor batsmanship.

Rabada is top quality and bowls like it. But gets good pace.

Pakistan have pacers who aren't able to hit 140kph in Test cricket on a regular basis potentially discounting Rauf, but he's a LOI bowler.

Akif Javed, Hasnain & Wasim Jnr should have played some first class cricket this season(despite the constant chopping & changing of the structure) to get used to bowling long spells despite coming from injury layoffs.

Besides pace, South African pacers were fitter, which Pakistan's pacer aren't really. No coach can teach that into players, specially if the mentality is appalling.

This is true but it highlights a number of issues as you’ve alluded to.

Raw pace without control and direction is meaningless.

A bowler lacking brains or stamina is cannon fodder

All bowlers need plenty of first class experience to develop pinpoint accuracy.

Maphaka is a perfect example. Look at what good teams do.

Australia : have Cummins, STARC, JH and Lyon. Many of them were developed ten years or so ago. They had issues. But now that have gelled but they are constantly bringing in boland and Cameron Green type players so when the need arises due to injury they get a match fit replacement.

South Africa: Rabada and Jansen sure. But they have two bowlers Bosch and patteson getting a rest despite 9 wickets between them to try out maphaka and bring back moulder. Coetze is still around. Suddenly playing the odd match here and there and they get about 10 matches under their belts and look world class.

England: could field another 5 seamers any day.

But we are lucky to have one seam bowler. It’s astonishing how awful our development is.

I won’t say Wasim will be any better. I have to see what he will do but he needs to be introduced when at least we get the first 4/5 pinned down. That’s why spin is a must for now. We appear to have no strategy other that lots of meaningless one day games that make our bowlers regress. They get empty POM awards but we know they are just chucking pies.

 

[Abid Z]

We need to keep it simple. Get 4 bowlers who can bowl tight for long spells and build pressure, and wickets will automatically come.

These modern batters have no patience. Just don’t give them boundary balls, which our pacers cannot resist doing because they have no control and fitness.

Remove unnecessary complication “140 kph, enforcer” blah blah there is no Rabada in Pakistan. Just tighten the pressure valves.

Yes I hate this speed obsession it’s completely killing our bowlers.

Decent line and length first. Everything after. But unless we have two spots taken up by spinners I don’t even know where the other two seamers come from. SSA is not that fit. Abbas can be one dimensional. But they can’t shoulder the whole attack.

 

[ElRaja]

I think this is the final excuse left for us.

Sri Lanka, West Indies, Bangladesh all play less than us and manage to win here and there.

west indies have had roach, gabriel, holder in the past abt 500 wickets between them, they now have roach, joseph and holder sales have more than 600 wickets between them.

sri lanka after a long time have shown consistency in their pacer selection, kumara, and the fernandos have nearly 300 test wickets between them, plus jayasuriya is a superior spinner to noman.

bang have never won in aus or SA, so dont really think a few wins here and there with their pacers will give any kind of insight.

pak play six or seven tests a year, out of which the home tests are on pitches which dont support fast bowlers, so either they sand bag or rely on spin, in the few away matches they play they rest players cos they would retire from red ball cricket if forced to bowl more than 50 overs in a series, lol.

the point i made, which is further strengthened by what ur saying is that consistency in selection makes pacers better, on an individual and team basis. pak have newbies after newbies looking at guys with 50 test wickets (nasim and coach aqib) to tell them how or where to bowl.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

west indies have had roach, gabriel, holder in the past abt 500 wickets between them, they now have roach, joseph and holder sales have more than 600 wickets between them.

sri lanka after a long time have shown consistency in their pacer selection, kumara, and the fernandos have nearly 300 test wickets between them, plus jayasuriya is a superior spinner to noman.

bang have never won in aus or SA, so dont really think a few wins here and there with their pacers will give any kind of insight.

pak play six or seven tests a year, out of which the home tests are on pitches which dont support fast bowlers, so either they sand bag or rely on spin, in the few away matches they play they rest players cos they would retire from red ball cricket if forced to bowl more than 50 overs in a series, lol.

the point i made, which is further strengthened by what ur saying is that consistency in selection makes pacers better, on an individual and team basis. pak have newbies after newbies looking at guys with 50 test wickets (nasim and coach aqib) to tell them how or where to bowl.

Shemar Joseph and Sales came from their first class set up. Joseph has only played 13 FC games ( more than half are tests) but won a match in Australia in his debut series. Alzari Joseph came through the age group crickets and played in a losing team for most of his career but still looks ok.

I appreciate the point you are making about having experience around them like Roach but these guys were test ready. Nahid Rana of Bangladesh too. He looked the part in his debut series.

You can look through our fast class cricket over the last 5 years and you will struggle to see any bowler who even looks the part and would benefit from more games and experience.

 

[Abid Z]

Sri Lanka and Bangladesh built their attacks around spinners. Of course they’ve had seam bowlers too but they never really competed until they started getting a few decent spinners alongside those seamers. The seamers were at best honest (not counting murali or herath).

There’s another team also that built their attack around quality spinners.

We now have to do the same. I can’t see where a decent pacer who can not only show immense control but also variations and be a constant wicket taking threat will come from. We actually need two.

 

[moghul]

PCB is a circus, being run by a joker who doesn;t know anything about test cricket and no one is interested in test cricket. How come they let their "premier" fast bowler skip the test series and let him play league cricket in BD.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Bowling strike rate in the last 2 years (away tours) . Pakistan is above ENgland/Afghanistan/Ireland.

Overall figures

Team	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
Zimbabwe	12	2024-2024	1	10	94.4	14	354	16	4/53	5/105	22.12	3.73	35.5	0	0
India	23	2023-2025	9	79	1051.5	222	3410	141	7/71	12/131	24.18	3.24	44.7	8	1
West Indies	20	2023-2024	9	98	1120.2	133	4220	141	7/37	13/99	29.92	3.76	47.6	6	1
Bangladesh	17	2024-2024	6	60	813.2	113	2908	100	6/64	8/140	29.08	3.57	48.8	6	0
New Zealand	16	2023-2024	7	66	962.3	131	3329	118	7/53	13/157	28.21	3.45	48.9	8	2
Australia	17	2023-2024	11	104	1432.4	173	5430	174	8/64	11/99	31.20	3.79	49.4	9	2
South Africa	26	2024-2024	6	60	835.0	155	2582	100	6/46	9/72	25.82	3.09	50.1	5	0
Sri Lanka	16	2023-2024	9	86	1297.3	169	4889	150	5/56	8/112	32.59	3.76	51.9	3	0
Pakistan	21	2023-2025	7	68	1049.5	167	3669	113	7/70	7/80	32.46	3.49	55.7	4	0
England	22	2023-2024	13	129	2182.0	293	7601	224	7/62	10/106	33.93	3.48	58.4	5	1
Afghanistan	26	2023-2025	4	49	594.0	52	2396	53	7/66	11/160	45.20	4.03	67.2	2	1
Ireland	15	2023-2023	4	28	473.0	31	2297	26	6/118	7/170	88.34	4.85	109.1	1	0

 

[FearlessRoar]

Apka 20 wickets in a Test match outside Pakistan ka formula kya hai?

It’s about having a balanced attack. Our pacers need to hit the right lengths, generate swing and stay disciplined which they’ve never done.

We also need a quality spinner who can exploit spin friendly pitches effectively but we tend to drop them after just one series.

Economy control is crucial – Sharp fielding something we’ve never focused on properly.

 

[Abid Z]

Apka 20 wickets in a Test match outside Pakistan ka formula kya hai?

It’s about having a balanced attack. Our pacers need to hit the right lengths, generate swing and stay disciplined which they’ve never done.

We also need a quality spinner who can exploit spin friendly pitches effectively but we tend to drop them after just one series.

Economy control is crucial – Sharp fielding something we’ve never focused on properly.

Before we Balance an attack, we need to have an attack. At the moment we simply don’t have a test attack worthy of the name. We have two fantastic spinners build around them. We have two good seamers that are only just barely hanging on.

 

[ElRaja]

Shemar Joseph and Sales came from their first class set up. Joseph has only played 13 FC games ( more than half are tests) but won a match in Australia in his debut series. Alzari Joseph came through the age group crickets and played in a losing team for most of his career but still looks ok.

I appreciate the point you are making about having experience around them like Roach but these guys were test ready. Nahid Rana of Bangladesh too. He looked the part in his debut series.

You can look through our fast class cricket over the last 5 years and you will struggle to see any bowler who even looks the part and would benefit from more games and experience.

Aamer Jamal looked test-ready when he bowled in Australia. Pakistan would have won at least one game had they caught properly, and yet where is Jamal now? Seales is a generational talent, granted, but you put the same lad in the Pakistani structure, and he'd have played 10 tests and dropped his pace to try and sandbag for T20s.

shaheen, nasim both came through looking as good as these guys in their first few tests, shaheen outbowled them last time in the WI, and then what happened, their careers meandered and they just didnt develop. even nasim pbly made his greatest development strides playing the CPL away from the pak set up.

Playing test cricket is a skill passed down from generation to generation of test players, WI have that in fast bowling, they have lost it in batting or bowling spin. Once you lose that, it takes ages to get it back, and whether its batting, bowling or strategising, pak have lost it, and the fewer matches they play, the longer it will take to get back, if it ever comes back.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Pakistan needs an express pacer who can clock 145+ regularly and is not a bowling machine-type bowler. Genuine quick with brains. Who could that bowler be??

Musa doing fine recently. but is he ready for comeback??

Fast bowling line up should be like, 1 express apcer + 2 accurate bowlers who can bowl lengthy spells and can take wickets like Khurram IMO.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Well it doesn't help when Pakistan has 3-4 test matches in the whole calendar year for 2025.

This then discourages a already Test shy set up.

 

[Xoib]

Shaheen , Abbas , Naseem , Sajid, Nauman are your best test bowlers barring injury minimum 3 out of 5 shall be playing every test regardless of conditions. Other then these five Khurram and Abrar should be your first reserves with one or two new inductions maybe Akif and Mehran

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I agree with most of what you wrote.

Firstly SPIN IN South Africa. The tour is over but prior to the tour it was clear that bowlers like ajmal, Paul Adams, mehraj have a good record in South Africa. It often gets said that warne and Murali could bowl anywhere even on a sheet of glass and get spin but even Paul Harris who barely spun got wickets. Sajid and Nauman are thinking attacking spinners. They get drift in the and can beat batsmen in flight. They would have been a handful on any day 3,4 or 5 pitch. Even in day 1&2 they know how to play a containing role.

So abbas is fine with them. I have no issues with him being one dimensional.

And SSA should just stick to tests and the occasional one day series but absolutely not t20’s. Pak only play about 10 tests a year he does need some kind of competitive cricket.

But the rest, Naseem , Khurram every other bowler they are so far from test level that I’m just pulling my hair out. We need about 4 others that compete for spots.

My worry is
A) that Windies will come and again we will look at the short term. Saj, noman SSA and one other to win the series
B) after that series is done we will just think about limited overs and bowlers who forget about keeping it tight neglecting that we need a squad. Right now if SSA is injured we actually have no world class seamer.

Don't agree with the spinners' bit. There are only 2 venues where spinners are justified - Port Elizabeth and Durban

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Every other venue, you are better off playing a 4th seamer.

You can play a Maharaj like spinner if you are willing to drop a batter and play Jamal in the Top 7 like South Africa did with Mulder.

 

[Abid Z]

Well it doesn't help when Pakistan has 3-4 test matches in the whole calendar year for 2025.

This then discourages an already Test shy set up.

I think more will be scheduled later in the year. The schedule only seems to cover up to March.

 

[Abid Z]

Don't agree with the spinners' bit. There are only 2 venues where spinners are justified - Port Elizabeth and Durban

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Every other venue, you are better off playing a 4th seamer.

You can play a Maharaj like spinner if you are willing to drop a batter and play Jamal in the Top 7 like South Africa did with Mulder.

This is absolutely true. You wouldn’t turn

Pakistan needs an express pacer who can clock 145+ regularly and is not a bowling machine-type bowler. Genuine quick with brains. Who could that bowler be??

Musa doing fine recently. but is he ready for comeback??

Fast bowling line up should be like, 1 express apcer + 2 accurate bowlers who can bowl lengthy spells and can take wickets like Khurram IMO.

there is no bowler in Pak who can regularly clock over 145kph and can maintain decent control and be a thinking bowler. These kind of bowlers are very rare. One might turn up.

Said bowler would be only useful if he is partnering 2 very accurate seamers. Like two ABBAS or Asif type bowlers (oval test 2010). We don’t have two very accurate bowlers.

KS, NS have a long way to go before they are test level.

In the absence of above we have to recognise we only have two really decent bowlers and they are Sajid and Noman. Start building around them the seamers are very far from where they need to be.

This is the formula of Srilanka in the 80’s-90s BD in the 1990’s-2000 and also India in the 1990’s-2000’s. Just go spin heavy until the seamers show up. (Of course I’m not suggesting we have spinners of the calibre of kumble-harbahjan)

 

[Abid Z]

PCB is a circus, being run by a joker who doesn;t know anything about test cricket and no one is interested in test cricket. How come they let their "premier" fast bowler skip the test series and let him play league cricket in BD.

Because he would have got ground down and Pak can’t rely on just one seamer. Others deserve to be tried and given chances so we can rotate and develop a squad. It doesn’t matter if we lose along the way the important thing is to give exposure to some bowlers so they can develop their game and come back match ready.

 

[RidiculousMan]

By building a time machine and going back to the 90s

 

[Xoib]

I think the Ramiz era pitches played a major role in Naseem and Shaheen losing interest in test cricket no young pacer would want to bend their backs on those concretes among all PCB chairman’s it takes real effort from Rambo to be the worst of the lot

 

[Abid Z]

By building a time machine and going back to the 90s

Build a Time Machine but only go back to South Africa 2002 captown.

Sami, waqar, (returning zahid) saqlain couldn’t prevent a hammering by South Africa.

Even 2013 ajmal did ok.

Moral of the story even with our best attacks seam bowling has regressed awfully and we can’t get 5 bowlers worthy of test standard.

So start with spinners they are at least good enough and work on 2 seamers at a time. Just like India and Bangladesh did in the 90’s.

 

[Abid Z]

By building a time machine and going back to the 90s

No the lack of bowling quality has been regressing for the last 15 years or so. We’ve been papering over the cracks for a while. Many of these seamers can and do play abroad but they need to do more of it. Abbas is better for playing for Hampshire and Junaid played for Lancashire. But even so the rest …I don’t know what they do. Playing BBL or CPL isn’t going to develop test bowling.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Invest in tall fast bowlers and ensure they only play test cricket for a few years.

We have Shaheen who isn't great but he is tall and also now experienced so there goes one slot. Then we have two experienced players in Hamza & Abbas from which one should be in the playing 11. Then comes the need for speed and the contenders that are there are frankly abysmal. Khurram is decent but not great, Naseem looks & acts like a spent force, & Hasnain or Rauf are not really setting the world on fire.

So the options we have are either limited or non-existent. Ali Raza is too young, Akif isn't 90+ mph, & Ihsanullah has been advised to not play test cricket. Is Kashif Ali fast? I've not seen him play where good cameras are in place so it's hard to say how fast he is. Is there any bowler hidden in our domestic cricket who lives breathes speed, idk. I'm assuming that there isn't any because if there was, they'd be highlighted by now.

I wish we had an Imran Khan or a Wasim Akram clone hidden in the back alleys of Mazang but it ain't so so the only way out now is investing in fast bowlers & protecting their career by compensating them well enough so they don't prioritize anything above test cricket. If we, however, just think that T20 is the future then no real need to do so. A better schedule next WTC cycle with no tours to RSA / Aus will not be taxing on our test resources & we may be able to take 20 wickets in Eng / NZ (harder in NZ but relatively easier than Aus tour)

 

[Xoib]

Invest in tall fast bowlers and ensure they only play test cricket for a few years.

We have Shaheen who isn't great but he is tall and also now experienced so there goes one slot. Then we have two experienced players in Hamza & Abbas from which one should be in the playing 11. Then comes the need for speed and the contenders that are there are frankly abysmal. Khurram is decent but not great, Naseem looks & acts like a spent force, & Hasnain or Rauf are not really setting the world on fire.

So the options we have are either limited or non-existent. Ali Raza is too young, Akif isn't 90+ mph, & Ihsanullah has been advised to not play test cricket. Is Kashif Ali fast? I've not seen him play where good cameras are in place so it's hard to say how fast he is. Is there any bowler hidden in our domestic cricket who lives breathes speed, idk. I'm assuming that there isn't any because if there was, they'd be highlighted by now.

I wish we had an Imran Khan or a Wasim Akram clone hidden in the back alleys of Mazang but it ain't so so the only way out now is investing in fast bowlers & protecting their career by compensating them well enough so they don't prioritize anything above test cricket. If we, however, just think that T20 is the future then no real need to do so. A better schedule next WTC cycle with no tours to RSA / Aus will not be taxing on our test resources & we may be able to take 20 wickets in Eng / NZ (harder in NZ but relatively easier than Aus tour)

I like Awais Anwar check his videos looks quick and is around 6 foot 4-5 alteast

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

I like Awais Anwar check his videos looks quick and is around 6 foot 4-5 alteast

Looks decent but any idea about his pace? Such low quality videos available on him so can't tell if he's fast or just tall medium pacer

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Qudrat ka nizam

 

[Deewana Mastana]

They barely play test cricket so it isn't a concern for them neither do they have the appetite for it either.

Playing 4-5 tests a year isn't something they are bothered about as it is all about T20 cricket.

 

[Xoib]

Looks decent but any idea about his pace? Such low quality videos available on him so can't tell if he's fast or just tall medium pacer

I saw him bowl in recent T 20 cup looked yard quicker then Ali Raza

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Spinners will always be in play on a pitch where 400+ runs are scored. Also, Cape Town has historically provided assistance for spinners.

Pakistan should have played Sajid or Nouman on a pitch where Agha bowled 38 overs in the first innings.

No pitch is bad enough to concede 600+. It is just poor bowling and captaincy.

And also poor selection. Not sure who was responsible for picking an all seam attack, but surely by now someone should have looked at Pakistan's seamers compared to SA's and realised Pakistan's were much worse?

I'm not really sure what they see when they assess pace bowlers in Pakistan, I don't recall seeing any which show genuine class in the last few years. Naseem and Hasnain looked quick at one time, but even then you could see they lacked real fire and accuracy.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

And also poor selection. Not sure who was responsible for picking an all seam attack, but surely by now someone should have looked at Pakistan's seamers compared to SA's and realised Pakistan's were much worse?

I'm not really sure what they see when they assess pace bowlers in Pakistan, I don't recall seeing any which show genuine class in the last few years. Naseem and Hasnain looked quick at one time, but even then you could see they lacked real fire and accuracy.

They took selection powers away from Gillespie for selecting 4 seamers and gave them to Aqib Javed. And when Aqib became coach he selected 4 seamers with his new powers

 

[Xoib]

I read Aqib horses for courses interview and I realised this guy is full of Bull… 5 best test bowlers in Pakistan are Shaheen, Naseem, Abbas, Sajid , Nauman and barring injury atleast three should be playing every test no matter the conditions even his English tests selection was stupid he picked Zahid who was playing as a spare and we were lucky Sajid and Nauman were such form that this selection blunder did not cost Pakistan

 

[mominsaigol]

They took selection powers away from Gillespie for selecting 4 seamers and gave them to Aqib Javed. And when Aqib became coach he selected 4 seamers with his new powers

Tbf, Gillespie wanted the same 4 seamers to play England. The same England that had mauled them for 800.

Gillespie is a fantastic coach and I am not one to doubt his credentials, but he did a poor job for pakistan and this is something aqib fixed vs England.

I think most of us just look at Gillespie and assume that he was wrongly done cause he's a foreign coach with a solid track record. But the truth is he wasnt even willing to spend time with pakistan to begin with.

Same with Kristen.

 

[Pakpak]

Really feel gutted today. The tests showed good fight but not enough over 5 days. Whatever the flaws of the batters and captain one thing sticks out like a sore thumb. Pak bowling attack is completely innocuous and toothless and it will struggle against good sides again and again. Without the ability to take 20 wickets we can never win a match.

This is what I see. But a caveat. Nobody is undroppable and we need a squad of about 10 bowlers rotated around different formats. Of these formats Tests worries me the most. So let’s focus there.

Currently Our two best bowlers by a country mile are SAJID AND NAUMAN bowling in tandem. I don’t care that people think it doesn’t spin in South Africa it absolutely does. (Some grounds more than others). They need to come back and we need to build around them.

We should always play our best bowlers and try to take the game into the 4/5th day. Our batsmen (and a lot of Asian batsmen can’t bat long enough to take the game deep) this needs to be strategised properly.

Amir Jamal is the all rounder. Like him or not I don’t see anybody challenging him just yet but boy does he need to improve. I know he warmed the bench during limited overs and then came out to bowl but he needs to get himself sorted. But even then think about international level all rounders and then him…there is clear daylight.

SSA is our best seamer. He can’t be everywhere all at once. Manage his workload and find him a partner. Otherwise he’s going to be ground down.

Naseem and KS are identical only one needs to partner SSA. They need a lot of development to be better at threatening the stumps. There is no point in having the skills but not landing the ball 6 out of 6 balls on the spot. They have a 4 ball every over.

Abbass and Mir hamza are one dimensional. They are good at line and length bowling but that’s it. The coaches need to work out how to get the best out of them. When they don’t get a wicket they look toothless.

And that’s it. This is not an attack that will give anybody sleepless nights. Really I thought we had the worst attack 10 years ago in rahat Ali and sohail khan but right now it’s even worse.

Need to build around a 38 year old (who's real age looks like 40+). Seems like a great idea.

The rest of your post seems reasonable.

 

[Abid Z]

Need to build around a 38 year old (who's real age looks like 40+). Seems like a great idea.

The rest of your post seems reasonable.

So maybe I should state build around the two best bowlers in Pak for the next year or two. (Because South Africa clearly build around Rabada and Jansen). Our two best bowlers happen to be spinners at least for the next 12 months. I don’t see any 2 seamers worthy of the name.

If there is one word I could drop from the cricketing dictionary it would be “potential”. I would prefer performance based on a 4 day match where somebody can prove guile , stamina and control. I only see that coming from our spinners.

South Africa see that from seamers and so do England. That’s fine for them.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Every time Pakistan relies on their spinners to take wickets in Test but that too only on spin-friendly pitches. To improve their pace bowling record they should move on from the trundlers and find someone who can offer genuine pace which is a crucial factor in taking wickets.

 

[Abid Z]

Every time Pakistan relies on their spinners to take wickets in Test but that too only on spin-friendly pitches. To improve their pace bowling record they should move on from the trundlers and find someone who can offer genuine pace which is a crucial factor in taking wickets.

That’s the point. There is not a single tall pacer who can bowl over 140k consistently and maintain good control and last 3 tests.

SSA I’m not sure of his fitness.
Abbas is good but one dimensional
Naseem too wayward but that’s only 3 anyway.

 

[Farabi]

Every time Pakistan relies on their spinners to take wickets in Test but that too only on spin-friendly pitches. To improve their pace bowling record they should move on from the trundlers and find someone who can offer genuine pace which is a crucial factor in taking wickets.

Like Naseem and Shaheen were tearing apart international teams when they were bowling 140+ pre injury?