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"I want to put in some consistent performances for Pakistan" : Saud Shakeel [VIDEO #243]

Syed1 said:
Only 20 years of age?!?!

What the heck, I thought he was around 25-27. Should be given a full domestic season and then inducted.

If you are good enough, you are old enough..
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Yes he does and hopefully he is batting at 3 or 4.
 
Syed1 said:
Only 20 years of age?!?!

What the heck, I thought he was around 25-27. Should be given a full domestic season and then inducted.

If you are good enough, you are old enough..
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He has a baby face lol. Probably one of the few people whose DOB is genuine.
 
Where we can see videos of him playing? - He is doing really good today. First match, coming at number 3, 75 already, lets hope he make big 100, Babar needs to make 100s too, he has being getting out 50/60s ... Please don't waste him in FC :(

There are lot of players in A team who are better than Hafeez, its a terrible decision to persist with Hafeez :po:
 
We have heard about him since he as 14 here at PP, hopefully he can keep improving and take a permanent spot in the senior team.
 
Mildly excited with the way our future batting line up is shaping up.

3. Haris
4. Babar
5. Saud
6. Rizwan/any other competent keeper-batsman (not Sarfaraz)
 
The talent identification and player development in pakistan is terrible.

Almost everyone who has seen Saud Shakeel bat knows he is one of the finest talents in the world at his age and yet Basit ali did not play him in the first few matches on this tour . Missing out on a key opportunity to give him exposure . Umar siddique on the other hand has a high average but is no where near as good as his average suggests from what i saw of him playing for the lahore lions.

Really should be using this platform for player development rather than picking favourites

So annoying to see that Babar Azam still has the same problem of getting stuck on the crease and getting LBW .

I am convinced no talented player can ever improve in our present system.
 
Too many young players lack the hunger and desire to score big runs. They are happy with a 40 or a 50 to stay in the team.
 
Bewal Express said:
Not numerically but if you look at the scores of these young players, none have gone onto get a 100. If you can get 40 or 80, then you have the ability to get 150+ but very rarely do they go onto to get 100.
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Come on Man!
Appreciate the innings, a 20 year old boy just scored an 86 in England against a decent bowling attack in his first innings of the tour.
 
Bewal Express said:
Not numerically but if you look at the scores of these young players, none have gone onto get a 100. If you can get 40 or 80, then you have the ability to get 150+ but very rarely do they go onto to get 100.
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If you compare their FC records, this can be said about Babar as he has gotten out for middling scores many times while batting in his preferred positions, i.e. in the middle order.

But Saud has done fairly well so far in his (very short) FC career despite often being shunted down at #7 to accommodate 'seniors' above him in the line-up.
 
CricketFan7503 said:
Come on Man!
Appreciate the innings, a 20 year old boy just scored an 86 in England against a decent bowling attack in his first innings of the tour.
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It will make no difference if i appreciate it or not, the issue is that if they want to go onto a make a respectable career at the higher level they need to show a desire to score big when the opportunities arise as more often than not, they will fall for low scores. Very few players at that level dont have talent, what separates the wheat from the chaff is desire and mental toughness and too often PK players accept low scores as a great achievement
 
ethan hunt said:
The talent identification and player development in pakistan is terrible.

Almost everyone who has seen Saud Shakeel bat knows he is one of the finest talents in the world at his age and yet Basit ali did not play him in the first few matches on this tour . Missing out on a key opportunity to give him exposure . Umar siddique on the other hand has a high average but is no where near as good as his average suggests from what i saw of him playing for the lahore lions.

Really should be using this platform for player development rather than picking favourites

So annoying to see that Babar Azam still has the same problem of getting stuck on the crease and getting LBW .

I am convinced no talented player can ever improve in our present system.
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Bit of a tempest in a teacup, with at least one loose contentio swirling about. You claim that
Siddiq was unjustly selected before Saudel because he has better stats. But he doesn't.
He has 8 centuries in 36 games@ 45 SR 51. Saudel has 3 centuries in just 10 games
@49 SR 40. Pretty much even stevens. The problem is not that the selectors have "blindly followed
stats" as its called on the PP board. Pakistani selectors are rather oppositely inclined. But in
this instance there does not seem to be much of a problem. They are both promising batsmen. The
promise is there to see in the performances they have put up. Siddiq is a smidgeon older so one
might feel that the clock is ticking a bit faster for him. But in the end, *they were both* given
chances to play. No need to get upset.
 
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New Yorker said:
Bit of a tempest in a teacup, with at least one loose contentio swirling about. You claim that
Siddiq was unjustly selected before Saudel because he has better stats. But he doesn't.
He has 8 centuries in 36 games@ 45 SR 51. Saudel has 3 centuries in just 10 games
@49 SR 40. Pretty much even stevens. The problem is not that the selectors have "blindly followed
stats" as its called on the PP board. Pakistani selectors are rather oppositely inclined. But in
this instance there does not seem to be much of a problem. They are both promising batsmen. The
promise is there to see in the performances they have put up. Siddiq is a smidgeon older so one
might feel that the clock is ticking a bit faster for him. But in the end, *they were both* given
chances to play. No need to get upset.
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Not upset nor do i feel that he was " unjustly" picked.
Just feel that you have to be able to identify quality talent and than provide them every opportunity to succeed . Which obviously the system has not been able to do so far.

In a system with emphasis on quantity rather than quality i wouldn't take the batting stats too seriously for eg someone like sohaib maqsood with his terrible techinque and flaws should not be averaging more than 25-30 in a competitive firstclass setup .

Hence the need to either improve the system or look beyond stats when it comes to young cricketers with potential.

Saud is clearly one of the brightest batting talents in the country and him not playing the first 2 games is an opportunity missed .

Just have to look at how players like root , smith and williamson in particular were allowed to develop.
 
New Yorker said:
Bit of a tempest in a teacup, with at least one loose contentio swirling about. You claim that
Siddiq was unjustly selected before Saudel because he has better stats. But he doesn't.
He has 8 centuries in 36 games@ 45 SR 51. Saudel has 3 centuries in just 10 games
@49 SR 40. Pretty much even stevens. The problem is not that the selectors have "blindly followed
stats" as its called on the PP board. Pakistani selectors are rather oppositely inclined. But in
this instance there does not seem to be much of a problem. They are both promising batsmen. The
promise is there to see in the performances they have put up. Siddiq is a smidgeon older so one
might feel that the clock is ticking a bit faster for him. But in the end, *they were both* given
chances to play. No need to get upset.
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Actually, exactly opposite should happen.

I think, I have seen Siddiqe once or twice batting (may be in CT T20 in 2014) - first, he is at least 3 to 5 years older than his registered age, therefore he is at his pick in his late 20s, absolutely no chance of technically improving - his learning curve has reached the hill top, may be experience at higher level might help him marginally. Second, his domestic stats should be more scary than encouraging - how can a batsman with zero foot-work & off-side game can average ~50 in long & short format of the game for such a big sample (over 3K runs) at that SR? Either he has a Viv like eye & reflex or Sehwag like hand-eye coordination; probably both - or we can take the other option - PAK domestic cricket is at Minor County Club level. Your choice to pick - I won't comment.

Saud's domestic stats has a clear indication of what's wrong with PAK domestic cricket. Played on shocker of wickets where you need to be bottom - hand butcher if you are to score fast. Touch players like him with good back-foot game won't survive there. He has played the highest number of balls last season, which indicates excellent temperament & technique on those dodgy wickets, but doesn't have the slogging ability to blast. Besides, PAK domestics are played like 4 ODI innings (60 overs/innings) - this doesn't help batsmen to think big, neither makes them hungry - today's 86 is a genuine match winner in PAK cricket. Above all, Faisla :) Iqbal plays him at 6/7 - not the best place for a player like him, particularly when the FC matches are played for 250 overs. Had he batted at 3/4, this same stats of 650 @ 49, could have easily turned into 850 @ 55 ala Fawad Alam & he is far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stylish & quality than Fawad.

In this regard, unless he changes his FC team to a club, which bats him at 3; in couple of years time, he'll lose his off-side game, his timing, his placement & above all his silky touch. He is not like Umar Akmal or Haqsood or Sharjeel that he can butcher "shandar" 30 & 40s at 100 SR; therefore - chances are high that next year his FC stats'll start to go down & he might not ever represent PAK.

5/6 years back, you replace Amin with Saud, I would have written identical words & 5/6 years later whole PP 'll write the same words for Saud, that is written for Amin now - CHL with very low confidence. Players who back on their timing, placements & top hand 'll lose confidence within 2 years, in PAK domestics on such duration & wickets - 4 day FC matches that demands 35 (38) to win a match.
 
Saud Hope you will read.


Very well done Cheetay. Well donem though i would have like you to score a ton but a great start.


Keep it up. Way to go.
 
sunnykhan said:
Umar Siddiq was rightly selected ahead of Saud Shakeel. He's more experienced and also rated highly. Saud Shakeel is talented but have only played 10 FC games up till now.
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havent u been proved wrong today, just one innings and he scored more than what umar siddiq scored in all 4 innings. umar siddiq can be ur cousin or from the same place urs which i dont know, but pls dont account on the rubbish domestic games that they play... need to watch the players how they play, their technique, shot selection, temperament and so on.....
 
In an ideal world, I think Saud would be a very good No. 3.

But there's a lot of competition for spots in the test middle order, and even in ODIs I don't see Hafeez or Malik going anywhere anytime soon; (Hafeez has performed well in recent ODIs too.)

Makes me think Saud should try his luck as an opener. Will make it easier for him to break into the team, and if it works, it'll help solve our opening woes too.

Those who have watched Saud play; [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] - do you guys think Saud has it in him to succeed as an opener ?
 
Ahson8 said:
In an ideal world, I think Saud would be a very good No. 3.

But there's a lot of competition for spots in the test middle order, and even in ODIs I don't see Hafeez or Malik going anywhere anytime soon; (Hafeez has performed well in recent ODIs too.)

Makes me think Saud should try his luck as an opener. Will make it easier for him to break into the team, and if it works, it'll help solve our opening woes too.

Those who have watched Saud play; [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] - do you guys think Saud has it in him to succeed as an opener ?
Click to expand...
Why would you make him into an opener ?

Yes He is a great Prospect but all his life uptil now He has batted at number 4,5 fot Pakistam U-19. Maybe once at 3.
Uptil now he never batted at above number 4 at fc level that too mostlu he batted at 6 and 7.


With the retirements of Hafeez in Odis, Misbah & Younis in tests around the corner i wand Saud to Bat at number 4 or 5 for Pakistan in Odi amd test cricket and may be get promoted to 3 if needed after a while.


You can watch his batting video at U-19 level agaimst England at icc website. In one of the threads i have previously shared link aswell. He is an absolute beauty on the eye on both off and leg side against Pacers on both front and backfoot. And wothout a doubt most elegant and stylish left hand batsman after Saeed Anwar in Pakistan cricket history.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Why would you make him into an opener ?

Yes He is a great Prospect but all his life uptil now He has batted at number 4,5 fot Pakistam U-19. Maybe once at 3.
Uptil now he never batted at above number 4 at fc level that too mostlu he batted at 6 and 7.


With the retirements of Hafeez in Odis, Misbah & Younis in tests around the corner i wand Saud to Bat at number 4 or 5 for Pakistan in Odi amd test cricket and may be get promoted to 3 if needed after a while.


You can watch his batting video at U-19 level agaimst England at icc website. In one of the threads i have previously shared link aswell. He is an absolute beauty on the eye on both off and leg side against Pacers on both front and backfoot. And wothout a doubt most elegant and stylish left hand batsman after Saeed Anwar in Pakistan cricket history.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
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Yes I've watched him bat and he looks very good. Technically sound.

I just feel if he tries his luck as an opener it'll be easier for him to break into the team. I don't see Hafeez / Malik retiring from ODIs anytime soon, and YK has also said he wants to play for 2-3 yrs more.
 
Ahson8 said:
In an ideal world, I think Saud would be a very good No. 3.

But there's a lot of competition for spots in the test middle order, and even in ODIs I don't see Hafeez or Malik going anywhere anytime soon; (Hafeez has performed well in recent ODIs too.)

Makes me think Saud should try his luck as an opener. Will make it easier for him to break into the team, and if it works, it'll help solve our opening woes too.

Those who have watched Saud play; [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] - do you guys think Saud has it in him to succeed as an opener ?
Click to expand...

No bro, tbh he shouldnt be an opener. He better play at 4 or 5.
 
Ahson8 said:
In an ideal world, I think Saud would be a very good No. 3.

But there's a lot of competition for spots in the test middle order, and even in ODIs I don't see Hafeez or Malik going anywhere anytime soon; (Hafeez has performed well in recent ODIs too.)

Makes me think Saud should try his luck as an opener. Will make it easier for him to break into the team, and if it works, it'll help solve our opening woes too.

Those who have watched Saud play; [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] - do you guys think Saud has it in him to succeed as an opener ?
Click to expand...

Absolutely brilliant prospect. Perfect top 7 for me after Hafeez and Malik go

Babar
?
Haris
Saud
?
Rizwan
Yamin
 
Ahson8 said:
Yes I've watched him bat and he looks very good. Technically sound.

I just feel if he tries his luck as an opener it'll be easier for him to break into the team. I don't see Hafeez / Malik retiring from ODIs anytime soon, and YK has also said he wants to play for 2-3 yrs more.
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I think he has the capacity, potential and the capability to break into the playing eleven in Odi cricket whereas in Test Cricket He, Babar & Haris will initially compete for Misbah's vacated spot whereas when Younis leaves which can happen anytime between next 24 months than there will be 2 spots.


Hafeez and Malik must Access his fitness and whether he will be their best in 2019 wc or not.

Firstly none of them have fired in any Wc they have played.

Only if they are in Sangakara's esque form at age of 38 than they should make the team otherwise after Champions Trophy we can discard them.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
Ahson8 said:
In an ideal world, I think Saud would be a very good No. 3.

But there's a lot of competition for spots in the test middle order, and even in ODIs I don't see Hafeez or Malik going anywhere anytime soon; (Hafeez has performed well in recent ODIs too.)

Makes me think Saud should try his luck as an opener. Will make it easier for him to break into the team, and if it works, it'll help solve our opening woes too.

Those who have watched Saud play; [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] - do you guys think Saud has it in him to succeed as an opener ?
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Haven't seen much of him apart from a few highlights.
 
aliasad1998 said:
Absolutely brilliant prospect. Perfect top 7 for me after Hafeez and Malik go

Babar
?
Haris
Saud
?
Rizwan
Yamin
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Ahsan (after 1 or 2 prolific seasons)
Imam (after 1 prolific season)
Hafeez
Babar
Malik
Rizwan
Sarfraz wk
Amad Butt
Hasan Ali
Mohammad Amir
Mohammad Asghar


Haris Sohail
Umar Akmal
Amir Yamin
Sadaf Hussain
Ali Imran Pasha
Usama/Shadab





Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 
MMHS said:
I actually don't agree with that. Any team selection shouldn't be done on stats only. For PAK, it's even more applicable as the domestic stats are absolutely meaning less. A Team selection should be done considering the gaps in National side; besides, beyond stats or seniority, a selector must look at the player. Anyone looking at Sharjeel, Fakher & Siddiq should realise that they are not for longer format. Siddiq was never rated high, or if he is rated high then who is rating him doesn't know what to look in a batsman.
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Siddiq played more FC games than Saud and was rightly inducted ahead of him. A bit of experienced is always preferred.

A player who played two seasons and have about the same average of a player who only played a single season should always be given chance initially.

There are many players who aren't suited to longer formats in the squad. Siddiq isn't the one and only. There are questions marks over Baber Azam's temperament for the longer format as well.

ask_analyse_act said:
havent u been proved wrong today, just one innings and he scored more than what umar siddiq scored in all 4 innings. umar siddiq can be ur cousin or from the same place urs which i dont know, but pls dont account on the rubbish domestic games that they play... need to watch the players how they play, their technique, shot selection, temperament and so on.....
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I will count rubbish domestic games as it's the only parameter to gauge players performance. I've seen both of them. Saud scoring runs doesn't mean Umar's selection in the playing XI was not on merit. That's the main argument.

FYI, I know Saud personally. Hangs out with my younger brother quite often and plays cricket with him as well. He's from Karachi. Never met Umar Siddiq ever.
 
Ahson8 said:
In an ideal world, I think Saud would be a very good No. 3.

But there's a lot of competition for spots in the test middle order, and even in ODIs I don't see Hafeez or Malik going anywhere anytime soon; (Hafeez has performed well in recent ODIs too.)

Makes me think Saud should try his luck as an opener. Will make it easier for him to break into the team, and if it works, it'll help solve our opening woes too.

Those who have watched Saud play; [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] - do you guys think Saud has it in him to succeed as an opener ?
Click to expand...




But there's a lot of competition for spots in the test middle order, and even in ODIs I don't see Hafeez or Malik going anywhere anytime soon; (Hafeez has performed well in recent ODIs too.)

Makes me think Saud should try his luck as an opener. Will make it easier for him to break into the team, and if it works, it'll help solve our opening woes too.

Those who have watched Saud play; [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION] - do you guys think Saud has it in him to succeed as an opener ?[/QUOTE]

He definitely can, by why should he? For a senior player like Azhar is not ready to move one slot up, though effectively he is opening for PAK in Test, while he doesn't mind opening against 2 white balls in ODI, as that's keeping him in team - in that regard, it's not justified that after such a brilliant start of FC & List A career, Saud should restart career as opener. Also, going forward, PAK's opening slot is going to be crowded by potential young openers. Shaan & Ahmed are in mid 20s, there is Jaahid, Ahasn, Sami, Imran (Butt), Imam, Zeeshan ...... I don't think, Saud should be forced to open. May be in ODI he can open, as in ODI No. 2 & No. 3 are actually same, therefore for a better combination, No. 3 & No. 2 can exchange spot.

The game is shifting fast - only outdated teams like PAK would think of almost same team for all 3 formats. Ideally, PAK should look for a pool of 35 players, from where they should pick 3 teams of 15 each - only outstanding individuals like Aamir (& may be few others) should be considered for all 3 formats (& his work load has to be managed accordingly) & 6/7 players would form the core of 2 adjacent format (i. e. same 6/7 players for Test - ODI or ODI - T20; but only someone like Aamir for all 3). Mashllah, once PCB selected (& played few matches) Imran Farhat for Test & T20; Fawad as well - good for Test, good for T20; but not good for ODI. It's like a sprinter practising for 100/200 dash & 1500 metres.

In that regard, I believe Saud should target No. 3 for Test, ODI & someone who bowls few overs - that makes him a perfect batting all-rounder, while PCB should ensure that whatever - he is not picked for T20.

In an ideal world, if I make a PAK team say at around July 12, 2020 - that's 4 years from now

Test -
1. Azhar
2. Open spot - Left Handed Opener: May be Shaan, Sami, Imam (or may be Ahmed, if he is still that good)
3. Saud
4. Asad
5. Babar
6. Haris
7. WK - on keeping merit, but not dodo with bat
8. Aamir
9. Specialist bowler
10. Specialist bowler
11. Specialist bower

I don't mind No. 8, 9, 10 & Jack of Murali, McGrath, Waquar & McGill/Walsi, if they can match the bowling of respective player. Even in 2200, Test cricket will remain a specialists game where bowlers win the game by taking 20 wickets. Batting from them is good to have, but I'll pick someone averaging 25 with ball & 12 with bat, than someone averaging 35 in both (For confused people, I am picking Waquar over Afridi).

ODI -
1. Right Handed opener : May be Zeeshan, Ahsan
2. Left handed opener : Sami, Imam
3. Saud
4. Babar
5. Haris
6. Umar (WK) - or Rizwan or a new kid (may be the U19 boy as WK)
7. All-rounder
8. All-rounder
9. Aamir
10. Specialist bowler
11. Specialist bowler

It's a combination game, therefore may be Saud can open & we can slot one more hard-hitting all-rounder which should raise Umar one slot up.

T20 -
1. Sharjeel, or any left-handed opener (but not the one that would open in Test, ODI opener may be)
2. Umar (Or, any hard hitting right hander)
3. Babar
4. Hard hitting middle order
5. WK - someone making the team on batting merit, focusing higher SR
6. All-rounder
7. All-rounder
8. Bowling All-rounder
9. Aamir
10. Specialist bowler
11. Specialist bowler

Surprisingly, T20 is a bowlers game - when the laws of the game is so much partial, the side which has better 16 overs should win the game. It's not only recent IPL, or WC T20; we can check history & it has always been either bowlers or bowling all-rounders that has won T20 tournaments. In a 20 over slog-out, anything more than 4 batsmen is a wastage. In ODI, batting from No. 5 to 8 has been decisive (not only now, even in olden days), because of the length of the game (it allows teams to strike - slight miscalculation, teams can find themselves 5 down with 20 overs to go); but in T20, hardly any specialist batsmen been effective from No. 6 or lower. Rather, it's the game of bits & pieces sloggers - 13 (7) from No. 5 to No. 9 actually wins more matches. Best example is WI.

PAK needs left-handed batsmen in top order; in that regard I actually feel Saud & even Imam is probably as important as Babar, if not more.
 
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MMHS said:
He definitely can, by why should he? For a senior player like Azhar is not ready to move one slot up, though effectively he is opening for PAK in Test, while he doesn't mind opening against 2 white balls in ODI, as that's keeping him in team - in that regard, it's not justified that after such a brilliant start of FC & List A career, Saud should restart career as opener. Also, going forward, PAK's opening slot is going to be crowded by potential young openers. Shaan & Ahmed are in mid 20s, there is Jaahid, Ahasn, Sami, Imran (Butt), Imam, Zeeshan ...... I don't think, Saud should be forced to open. May be in ODI he can open, as in ODI No. 2 & No. 3 are actually same, therefore for a better combination, No. 3 & No. 2 can exchange spot.
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Interesting. I think he should open in ODIs atleast for next 2-3 yrs, maybe he can move down to 3 once Hafeez / Malik retire
 
Chief Destroyer said:
You seem to more interested in Pak cricket than Indian cricket. Secretly a fan of our tailunt?:srini
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I know very little of the domestic talent of India unless they play in the IPL or debut in international cricket. Only came to know about some youngsters after watching the previous U19 WC. But I know more about Pak youngsters as you guys discuss everyone in depth in PP. So get more exposure about them.

I've always liked the Pak team of the yesteryears mainly for your bowling talent and the skills of your bowlers with the ball. But such charismatic players are missing nowadays and I hate your present LOI team as they play boring cricket unlike their predecessors. But your test team is really solid and I admire Amir as you rarely see bowlers swinging at pace nowadays. Moreover some good players are coming up the ranks - Babar, Haris, Sharjeel (though he is not young), Asghar, Hasan ali; and I think the LOI team may become exciting again.

Add to this, we are playing Windies in the windies (can't get more boring than that) and I love to watch cricket in England regardless of the teams. So kinda excited more about the Pak-Eng series:srini
 
Ahson8 said:
Interesting. I think he should open in ODIs atleast for next 2-3 yrs, maybe he can move down to 3 once Hafeez / Malik retire
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He should be playing against WI, come October; but I am afraid, it might be in T20s. After his 86, this guy averages 50+ in FC, almost 50 in List A AND 14 in T20 with 150+ SR - that's a perfect clue for PCB & it's selectors to pick him for T20s & play him at 7.

I hope Inzi proves me wrong.
 
MMHS said:
I actually don't agree with that. Any team selection shouldn't be done on stats only. For PAK, it's even more applicable as the domestic stats are absolutely meaning less. A Team selection should be done considering the gaps in National side; besides, beyond stats or seniority, a selector must look at the player. Anyone looking at Sharjeel, Fakher & Siddiq should realise that they are not for longer format. Siddiq was never rated high, or if he is rated high then who is rating him doesn't know what to look in a batsman.

PAK Test side is settled - in next 3 years, there could be 2/3 spots to grab at best - Misbah, YK & may be MoHa. Selectors have picked 2 lefti openers & Ahmed should make a come back in a year or two; so opening spot is covered, no point taking Butt or the 35 years old guy (forgot his name). They picked Jaahid & should have picked one of Butt (Imran) or Ahsan Ali. In middle order, once YK & Misbah is gone - already Haris is in line, for the next spot Babar is there & they would have picked Amin as well (& Rizwan is there wth main team & umar might make another comeback) - so that's covered as well. No point taking Fawad as he doesn't need to prove anything - it's a question of trusting him or look beyond, I think the decision is already taken.

On playing merit, I expect Saud to play against WI in coming winter - he is that good.
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Makes no sense. Stats just means performance. If you look at a player's performance you ARE looking at the player. Do you believe we should select players who are not performing?
 
New Yorker said:
Makes no sense. Stats just means performance. If you look at a player's performance you ARE looking at the player. Do you believe we should select players who are not performing?
Click to expand...

To a certain extent YES. That's because PAK domestic cricket is not standard. Couple of years back, I correctly predicted 15 of the 16 Ashes Turing members (Or Indian team to UK Tour) - because I had the confidence on their domestic stats. You can check my post on KL Rahul - I just watched his batting at the Dulip Trophy Final of 2014.

If this Guy Siddiq is considered for his domestic stats - why not, Sadaf, Kashif, Ashar, Zoaib & I can name few more ............
 
MMHS said:
Actually, exactly opposite should happen.

I think, I have seen Siddiqe once or twice batting (may be in CT T20 in 2014) - first, he is at least 3 to 5 years older than his registered age, therefore he is at his pick in his late 20s, absolutely no chance of technically improving - his learning curve has reached the hill top, may be experience at higher level might help him marginally. Second, his domestic stats should be more scary than encouraging - how can a batsman with zero foot-work & off-side game can average ~50 in long & short format of the game for such a big sample (over 3K runs) at that SR? Either he has a Viv like eye & reflex or Sehwag like hand-eye coordination; probably both - or we can take the other option - PAK domestic cricket is at Minor County Club level. Your choice to pick - I won't comment.

Saud's domestic stats has a clear indication of what's wrong with PAK domestic cricket. Played on shocker of wickets where you need to be bottom - hand butcher if you are to score fast. Touch players like him with good back-foot game won't survive there. He has played the highest number of balls last season, which indicates excellent temperament & technique on those dodgy wickets, but doesn't have the slogging ability to blast. Besides, PAK domestics are played like 4 ODI innings (60 overs/innings) - this doesn't help batsmen to think big, neither makes them hungry - today's 86 is a genuine match winner in PAK cricket. Above all, Faisla :) Iqbal plays him at 6/7 - not the best place for a player like him, particularly when the FC matches are played for 250 overs. Had he batted at 3/4, this same stats of 650 @ 49, could have easily turned into 850 @ 55 ala Fawad Alam & he is far, far, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar stylish & quality than Fawad.

In this regard, unless he changes his FC team to a club, which bats him at 3; in couple of years time, he'll lose his off-side game, his timing, his placement & above all his silky touch. He is not like Umar Akmal or Haqsood or Sharjeel that he can butcher "shandar" 30 & 40s at 100 SR; therefore - chances are high that next year his FC stats'll start to go down & he might not ever represent PAK.

5/6 years back, you replace Amin with Saud, I would have written identical words & 5/6 years later whole PP 'll write the same words for Saud, that is written for Amin now - CHL with very low confidence. Players who back on their timing, placements & top hand 'll lose confidence within 2 years, in PAK domestics on such duration & wickets - 4 day FC matches that demands 35 (38) to win a match.
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It doesn't matter what is the standard. At all. They play on the same pitches, against the same bowlers. If A performs significantly better than B then A should be selected ahead of B. You can parse technique until you
are blue in the face, but it is only going to be useful in hindsight. Technique does not explain why Chanderpaul became an ATG, nor as you would remind us, why Sehwag did too. Or why Rahat never will be. At the end of the day results is what counts.
 
ethan hunt said:
Not upset nor do i feel that he was " unjustly" picked.
Just feel that you have to be able to identify quality talent and than provide them every opportunity to succeed . Which obviously the system has not been able to do so far.

In a system with emphasis on quantity rather than quality i wouldn't take the batting stats too seriously for eg someone like sohaib maqsood with his terrible techinque and flaws should not be averaging more than 25-30 in a competitive firstclass setup .

Hence the need to either improve the system or look beyond stats when it comes to young cricketers with potential.

Saud is clearly one of the brightest batting talents in the country and him not playing the first 2 games is an opportunity missed .

Just have to look at how players like root , smith and williamson in particular were allowed to develop.
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It does not matter one smidgeon whether Sohaib averages 35 or 65, the relevant question is, how does he fare in COMPARISON. And looking at his stats, we see, not surprisingly, that he is a very middle level performer by Pakistani domestic standards, averaging 38 in List A cricket, far below the likes of Saud and Aslam . To me it looks like the system is doing fairly well in putting him in his place. More to the point, do you think Root, Smith and Williamson were NOT selected because of their stats? The thing with other countries, including Lanka and India, is they actually take their own domestic competitions seriously. Why else do you have these competitions? Of course stats don't tell us everything, but it really isn't clear how much other signs can be trusted either. A player may look like he has all the shots, but does he have the temperament? You only know on the basis of his performance. Which when written down and tabulated becomes stats.
 
MMHS said:
He should be playing against WI, come October; but I am afraid, it might be in T20s. After his 86, this guy averages 50+ in FC, almost 50 in List A AND 14 in T20 with 150+ SR - that's a perfect clue for PCB & it's selectors to pick him for T20s & play him at 7.

I hope Inzi proves me wrong.
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Inzi rates him highly as far I know. He will know a thing or 2 about how too look after a young batsmen.
 
Hasan123 said:
Inzi rates him highly as far I know. He will know a thing or 2 about how too look after a young batsmen.
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Inzi could select him for A tour; but it took 2 failures for Basit Ali picking him over the sloggers. This is another issue with PAK cricket - person is expected to deliver, not process. How many youngsters would you think Inzi would baby feed?
 
street cricketer said:
I know very little of the domestic talent of India unless they play in the IPL or debut in international cricket. Only came to know about some youngsters after watching the previous U19 WC. But I know more about Pak youngsters as you guys discuss everyone in depth in PP. So get more exposure about them.

I've always liked the Pak team of the yesteryears mainly for your bowling talent and the skills of your bowlers with the ball. But such charismatic players are missing nowadays and I hate your present LOI team as they play boring cricket unlike their predecessors. But your test team is really solid and I admire Amir as you rarely see bowlers swinging at pace nowadays. Moreover some good players are coming up the ranks - Babar, Haris, Sharjeel (though he is not young), Asghar, Hasan ali; and I think the LOI team may become exciting again.

Add to this, we are playing Windies in the windies[ (can't get more boring than that) and I love to watch cricket in England regardless of the teams. So kinda excited more about the Pak-Eng series:srini
Click to expand...

Not true, playing SL in SL is alot more boring..
 
MMHS said:
Inzi could select him for A tour; but it took 2 failures for Basit Ali picking him over the sloggers. This is another issue with PAK cricket - person is expected to deliver, not process. How many youngsters would you think Inzi would baby feed?
Click to expand...

He answered with the bat though didn't he? No way is he going to be dropped for the next game. The more he does his talking with the bat the more chance he has of getting selected.

You over analyze too much bro!!!!!
 
I hope the he gets selected for the limited overs squad but hes 20 and he seems like a genuine 20 year old, so times on his side
 
No need for him to be rotten and mistreated in domestic cricket.


Babar Azam, Saud Shakeel, Haris Sohail and Umar Akmal should must be Selected for Pakistan Odi squad against West Indies.


Umar Amin has come back to cricket after 5 months so on reputation i will have Haris back first. Amin ? If he performs in next Fc season than Yes but should must be part of Next Pakistan A squad with Imad or Amin as Captain of Pakistan A.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
No need for him to be rotten and mistreated in domestic cricket.


Babar Azam, Saud Shakeel, Haris Sohail and Umar Akmal should must be Selected for Pakistan Odi squad against West Indies.


Umar Amin has come back to cricket after 5 months so on reputation i will have Haris back first. Amin ? If he performs in next Fc season than Yes but should must be part of Next Pakistan A squad with Imad or Amin as Captain of Pakistan A.
Click to expand...

No chance Saud will be selected vs west indies and doubt Harris has had enough game practice
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
No need for him to be rotten and mistreated in domestic cricket.


Babar Azam, Saud Shakeel, Haris Sohail and Umar Akmal should must be Selected for Pakistan Odi squad against West Indies.

Umar Amin has come back to cricket after 5 months so on reputation i will have Haris back first. Amin ? If he performs in next Fc season than Yes but should must be part of Next Pakistan A squad with Imad or Amin as Captain of Pakistan A.
Click to expand...

The good thing is that most of them can bowl somewhat . Pakistan can go in with extra batting all rounder if they are played.
 
[MENTION=138958]Khan12[/MENTION]


You remember his 13 (7) innings ?

Only time He was seen batting with Ahsan Ali in Live match.

Runrate required was above 12 and he had to go for Shots every 2nd ball and got out and dropped next match. Don't know who the Captain of Khi was.

Even those 13 runs Silky touches and timing told you that U19 is history and this Boy is here to stay.
 
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
Really think saud can make it big. Got excellent temperament as well as excellent technique plus also plays both fast bowlers and spinners efficiently. Looks very elegant too. Personally I rate him higher then babar azam and the best left hand batsmen in Pakistan . Haven't seen a left handed batsmen like him in Pakistan for quite a while now. I really hope inzamam selects him for the West indies tour along side haris if fit and also umar amin.
 
Khan12 said:
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
Really think saud can make it big. Got excellent temperament as well as excellent technique plus also plays both fast bowlers and spinners efficiently. Looks very elegant too. Personally I rate him higher then babar azam and the best left hand batsmen in Pakistan . Haven't seen a left handed batsmen like him in Pakistan for quite a while now. I really hope inzamam selects him for the West indies tour along side haris if fit and also umar amin.
Click to expand...
Isnt Amin the most elegant leftie in Pak
 
Khan12 said:
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]
Really think saud can make it big. Got excellent temperament as well as excellent technique plus also plays both fast bowlers and spinners efficiently. Looks very elegant too. Personally I rate him higher then babar azam and the best left hand batsmen in Pakistan . Haven't seen a left handed batsmen like him in Pakistan for quite a while now. I really hope inzamam selects him for the West indies tour along side haris if fit and also umar amin.
Click to expand...


I think Amin will again be made Captain of Pakistan A unless he has not toured with Pakistan A four times.



I don't know whether i think on your lines or you think on my lines :)


But Nice to know.


I hope we haven't played cricket together ;)
 
Is this the state of Pakistan Cricket where innings of 13 off 7 deliveries is hyped because it was aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
 
Ellipsism said:
Is this the state of Pakistan Cricket where innings of 13 off 7 deliveries is hyped because it was aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
Click to expand...

It's because of the lack of televised coverage of our domestic game. And then when some tournaments are televised budding youngsters like Saud are ignored for baffling reasons leaving the fans to hold on to these rare glimpses of their knocks in the past.

Really hope Inzi picks Saud for the ODIs against WI. Let's give him a run at number 3.
 
Ellipsism said:
Is this the state of Pakistan Cricket where innings of 13 off 7 deliveries is hyped because it was aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
Click to expand...


And than Player goes on to Score 2 Fc hundreds in Debut Season as Teenager at An Average of 49 despite being floated at 6,7 etc.


How many teenagers in last 25 years in Pak Fc scored more runs than 13 (7) Saud in a debut Fc season ? ?
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
I think Amin will again be made Captain of Pakistan A unless he has not toured with Pakistan A four times.



I don't know whether i think on your lines or you think on my lines :)


But Nice to know.


I hope we haven't played cricket together ;)
Click to expand...
Hahaha. I think both of us like similar sort of players and not hackers hence why we both think a like. And the players which we have mentioned are indeed good players too and it doesn't take magic glasses to know who is better and who is not.

Yeah very nice to know we think a like.
 
I never stated Saud isn't worthy of International Selection. It's just weird seeing poor performances being hyped. Doesn't deserve international selection just yet.
 
Should Be sent at Number 5 in Next match or number 4 if Akbar can move to number 5.


After Haris's yet another Fitness Blow Saud becomes Most Imp Left Hand Middle Order Batsman in Pakistan. Needs to get Maximum number of Overs in Fc & List A cricket and also valuable overs in televised matches of any format.


Hope He doesn't play for Khi or PIA in next Fc Season.
 
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