ICC and JioStar reaffirm that their media rights agreement in India remains fully in force [Update@post#218]

[JaDed]

Interesting article, it does sound a bit panicky. Take this part for example.


Here is the underlying truth: if JioStar blinks, the entire global cricket economy blinks. And nowhere is that clearer than in the IPL — the sport’s most valuable asset. Any drop in IPL rights valuation would send shockwaves through franchise balance sheets, private equity investors, and banks underwriting cricket’s future. The IPL must remain bulletproof. That means no sudden expansion beyond the current 74 matches, no dilution of media value, and no admission that the cricket economy is cooling. IPL pricing will be protected, even if everything else around it is being repriced.

I have no issues with the IPL being protected by Indians. it is their product and they will obviously want to maintain it if not strengthen it. However, this is a worded in a way that to me indiciates, that the titanic has hit the iceberg, but let's not tell anybody yet.

They are quite right it will send shockwaves. As I said before, cricket has been overvalued based on the tearaway success of the IPL. But that success isn't enough to justify what is going in cricket in other places.

Take, for example, the ILt20, franchise owners have paid tens of millions, TV companies have probably paid tens of millions, player wages in total come to tens of millions, but is anybody really watching this? Does anybody care what happens? They have all paid money, hoping that they can take a punt, and the league attracts Indians and grows like the IPL. It aint gonna happen.

A few bubbles will pop soon.

I have came to the conclusion that I am happy with PSL staying within limits and attracted oldies and youngsters. We can't sustain a level of spending that these other franchises do that are propped up by outside capital. This bubble will pop soon, and outside of IPL, we will see a recalibration and consolidation of cricket.

It won’t only be cricket leagues, the issue is across sports ,the leagues will have to figure out streaming services , in US Apple TV, Peacock(NBC), HBO etc etc everyone is consolidating sport streaming..

ICC/leagues needs to go to Amazon Netflix both of them have very high presence in India.. and can help them out of this situation with a market bully Jio Star.

 

[JaDed]

In any other part of the world you will have anti trust litigiation however in India i see monopolies forming. Air India and Indigo is another example. I have also heard that Adani is now buying out cement giants like Ambuja cements. Living in canada, i have learnt that monopolies are never good.

I agree problem is Jio Star would be there even in the case if Tata had bought off Star, this monopoly is only due to Disney Star merger which preceded the issue.

I agree on Indigo, the problem is Indigo ran a very clean service for years and they deserved the 60%.. they did that with a lean proper management.
One of the owners who sold off his Indigo stake is now running SouthWest airlines.l in U

I agree on Adani, but India is mostly Duopolies, everywhere… Indigo-AirIndia, Jio-Airtel, Adaani-GMR.. man for years I wanted private investments only to realise maybe that’s not not a complete answer..

 

[Red-Indian]

Subscription prices were low even before the Jio takeover.

Hotstar cost me more than Jio Hotstar combined even though the content is much more on the bigger platform - In addition to the sport and Disney's old content from Hotstar, it also has HBO, Peacock and a bunch of other stuff I can't recall right. They also offered some crazy cheap deals early on - it's no surprise they reported massive losses. They had to have been expecting to.

It's absurd to blame all the losses on the ICC deal now and claim they need a discount. The original calculations were done with a different revenue model in mind. Now Jio's cheaper subscription plus the advertising has to pay for a lot more content they're offering.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It won’t only be cricket leagues, the issue is across sports ,the leagues will have to figure out streaming services , in US Apple TV, Peacock(NBC), HBO etc etc everyone is consolidating sport streaming..

ICC/leagues needs to go to Amazon Netflix both of them have very high presence in India.. and can help them out of this situation with a market bully Jio Star.

The other sports are well established and have had massive deals for a while. There will no doubt be a correction, but not a major one.

Cricket particularly T20 franchises have been valued quite quickly and hastily. Here I think the correction could be more significant.

 

[JaDed]

The other sports are well established and have had massive deals for a while. There will no doubt be a correction, but not a major one.

Cricket particularly T20 franchises have been valued quite quickly and hastily. Here I think the correction could be more significant.

That’s probably true..

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's true that Jiostar has become way too powerful in the India media market (which is really the only media market that matters). They're taking a calculated risk in challenging the ICC. It's true that they made losses but then for a good part of the cycle, they pursued a deliberate loss making strategy - keeping subscription prices at rock bottom and often giving cricket out for free.

The simple fact is that they don't want to risk the IPL yet but they know the ICC can be squeezed since it has no other options. They want to use this leverage to get a big discount.

ICC has limited choices. Unless it can really leverage international players like Amazon Prime and Netflix and tempt them with some kind of profit sharing deal, there are really no other entities in the Indian media market that can risk a deal of this size. It'll require expertise, vision and risk taking ability. I'm not holding my breath.

No one wants to be seen having any association with anything that is remotely connected to Pakistan, bcci and jio faced a lot of nack lash and negative publicity for the india vs Pakistan match in Asia cup unlike star which was owned by disney jiostar is majority owned by reliance and they don’t want a negative image in india

Plus questions are already being raised why bcci agreed to shifting of India match to colombo, and if BCCI is prioritising revenue over national interest, i wont be surprised if ambani received a msg from the government to stay Way from icc rights and let icc and its members face the financial consequences of disturbing the primary financial ecosystem

 

[IronShield]

No one wants to be seen having any association with anything that is remotely connected to Pakistan, bcci and jio faced a lot of nack lash and negative publicity for the india vs Pakistan match in Asia cup unlike star which was owned by disney jiostar is majority owned by reliance and they don’t want a negative image in india

Plus questions are already being raised why bcci agreed to shifting of India match to colombo, and if BCCI is prioritising revenue over national interest, i wont be surprised if ambani received a msg from the government to stay Way from icc rights and let icc and its members face the financial consequences of disturbing the primary financial ecosystem

Trust you to twist it around towards Pakistan.

Simple fact is that it was way overpriced and like any bubble, it has to pop at some point. Jiostar is in a bidding contract for the remaining term, it cannot just walk away.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

No one wants to be seen having any association with anything that is remotely connected to Pakistan, bcci and jio faced a lot of nack lash and negative publicity for the india vs Pakistan match in Asia cup unlike star which was owned by disney jiostar is majority owned by reliance and they don’t want a negative image in india

Plus questions are already being raised why bcci agreed to shifting of India match to colombo, and if BCCI is prioritising revenue over national interest, i wont be surprised if ambani received a msg from the government to stay Way from icc rights and let icc and its members face the financial consequences of disturbing the primary financial ecosystem

It seems a roundabout way of doing things no?

If GOI can send a message to Ambani, couldn't they send one to BCCI or their lackey in the ICC Jay Shah?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Trust you to twist it around towards Pakistan.

Simple fact is that it was way overpriced and like any bubble, it has to pop at some point. Jiostar is in a bidding contract for the remaining term, it cannot just walk away.

They may have a force majeure get out clause,

How is it that jio star realised ot was over priced only after the negative publicity asia cup received.

Something has happened behind the scenes that has scared even ambani

 

[cricketjoshila]

It seems a roundabout way of doing things no?

If GOI can send a message to Ambani, couldn't they send one to BCCI or their lackey in the ICC Jay Shah?

Messaged is being sent to icc that they can’t afford to take a neutral position between bcci and pcb with out significant financial losses.
Now icc has to find a different financial ecosystem of brace for losses

Ofcourse something has happened at the icc that such a stern reminder is being sent to icc and all its members

 

[Major]

No one wants to be seen having any association with anything that is remotely connected to Pakistan, bcci and jio faced a lot of nack lash and negative publicity for the india vs Pakistan match in Asia cup unlike star which was owned by disney jiostar is majority owned by reliance and they don’t want a negative image in india

Plus questions are already being raised why bcci agreed to shifting of India match to colombo, and if BCCI is prioritising revenue over national interest, i wont be surprised if ambani received a msg from the government to stay Way from icc rights and let icc and its members face the financial consequences of disturbing the primary financial ecosystem

@DeadlyVenom @Rana remember, how this guy went on that pakistan getting a change of venue approved did not mattered, and gave us his logics how Sri lanka was already a host.

And now look at his u turn

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@DeadlyVenom @Rana remember, how this guy went on that pakistan getting a change of venue approved did not mattered, and gave us his logics how Sri lanka was already a host.

And now look at his u turn

That's also true

 

[cricketjoshila]

@DeadlyVenom @Rana remember, how this guy went on that pakistan getting a change of venue approved did not mattered, and gave us his logics how Sri lanka was already a host.

And now look at his u turn

Srilanka is already a host yes but BCCI agreeing to play at a neutral venue is something government certainly isn’t agreeing with and is sending icc a reminder that its in no position to make such demands to the bcci

Bcci may be legally bound by icc mpa and hosting agreement but icc can be punished in a number of ways with out BCCI having to do anything

 

[IronShield]

They may have a force majeure get out clause,

How is it that jio star realised ot was over priced only after the negative publicity asia cup received.

Something has happened behind the scenes that has scared even ambani

You are just making stuff up now like a Desi uncle. Agreeing to pay overblown price and then realising is too much does not qualify for force majeure.

 

[Rana]

Srilanka is already a host yes but BCCI agreeing to play at a neutral venue is something government certainly isn’t agreeing with and is sending icc a reminder that its in no position to make such demands to the bcci

Bcci may be legally bound by icc mpa and hosting agreement but icc can be punished in a number of ways with out BCCI having to do anything

ICC chief Jay Shah was supposed to make PCB chief grovel at the November meeting according to your spokespersons here, he was going to throw PCB out of membership for not handing over trophy…

 

[cricketjoshila]

@DeadlyVenom @Rana remember, how this guy went on that pakistan getting a change of venue approved did not mattered, and gave us his logics how Sri lanka was already a host.

And now look at his u turn

Now pcb and you can go to cas and get $3bn

 

[cricketjoshila]

ICC chief Jay Shah was supposed to make PCB chief grovel at the November meeting according to your spokespersons here, he was going to throw PCB out of membership for not handing over trophy…

Naqvi was forced to come to the negotiating table by icc where he may be groveling

Soon entire icc will be groveling to find a 3bn usd replacement

 

[IronShield]

Now pcb and you can go to cas and get $3bn

Nothing todo with PCB. It's between Jiostar and ICC. Why are you bringing PCB into this?

 

[Rana]

Naqvi was forced to come to the negotiating table by icc where he may be groveling

Where? In which Bollywood movie?

 

[IronShield]

Naqvi was forced to come to the negotiating table by icc where he may be groveling

Soon entire icc will be groveling to find a 3bn usd replacement

It's the remainder of the contract!! Atleast check facts.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You are just making stuff up now like a Desi uncle. Agreeing to pay overblown price and then realising is too much does not qualify for force majeure.

If there was no get out clause icc would be forcing jio star to continue and not running around to find a new broadcaster

 

[cricketjoshila]

Where? In which Bollywood movie?

Naqvi had to hold a meeting with BCCI officials in dubai over the Asia cup trophy issue, a google search will tell u this, naqvi

 

[cricketjoshila]

It's the remainder of the contract!! Atleast check facts.

Remainder of the contract, yes but thTs a 3bn usd contract

 

[IronShield]

If there was no get out clause icc would be forcing jio star to continue and not running around to find a new broadcaster

Ok lets try this one step at a time.

How many years was the contract? and how long left on the contract?

 

[Rana]

Naqvi had to hold a meeting with BCCI officials in dubai over the Asia cup trophy issue, a google search will tell u this, naqvi

Spreading lies?

The meeting was held as per custom with all ACC officials after the Asia cup

In the same meeting, Naqvi muted the mics of the BCCI officials who were crying, screaming and shouting like women

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Messaged is being sent to icc that they can’t afford to take a neutral position between bcci and pcb with out significant financial losses.
Now icc has to find a different financial ecosystem of brace for losses

Ofcourse something has happened at the icc that such a stern reminder is being sent to icc and all its members

It is a bit of a conspiracy theory.

It's more reasonable to assume that it's due to coat reasons.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It is a bit of a conspiracy theory.

It's more reasonable to assume that it's due to coat reasons.

Why all this after bcci was thoroughly criticised for playing the Asia cup and jio star was dragged in too for indirectly funding the game

 

[JaDed]

No one wants to be seen having any association with anything that is remotely connected to Pakistan, bcci and jio faced a lot of nack lash and negative publicity for the india vs Pakistan match in Asia cup unlike star which was owned by disney jiostar is majority owned by reliance and they don’t want a negative image in india

Plus questions are already being raised why bcci agreed to shifting of India match to colombo, and if BCCI is prioritising revenue over national interest, i wont be surprised if ambani received a msg from the government to stay Way from icc rights and let icc and its members face the financial consequences of disturbing the primary financial ecosystem

Yeah they keep saying this and then ICT keeps playing PCT.. if anything we have played them way too much, three sundays continuously once.. so don’t think what you are saying is true

 

[Smbhayi]

. After Sahara, every sponsor India had has suffered from financial troubles.

Not Dream11 tbh.. they got backstabbed by govt..

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Why all this after bcci was thoroughly criticised for playing the Asia cup and jio star was dragged in too for indirectly funding the game

But they also played emerging cup and women's cup too and I'm sure ICC world cup draw was officially after Asia cup wasn't it...so the timeline doesn't add up.

 

[IronShield]

Yeah they keep saying this and then ICT keeps playing PCT.. if anything we have played them way too much, three sundays continuously once.. so don’t think what you are saying is true

He is behaving like a Desi Uncle.... always a conspiracy somewhere.

Fact is, they have over payed and feeling the pinch in down times. Its simple economic cycle as there is only so much you can rinse out of people in India.

 

[Rana]

$3b dollars,

There is going to be major losses. Looks like this could change the landscape of the sport for good depending on who bails out the ICC and and what cost!

 

[Rana]

I think JioStar might even pull out of their commitments to IPL going forward too if you lose players like Kohli, Rohit and Dhoni.

This isn’t the end of this I feel.

 

[shah_1]

Odi cricket is not financially attractive

 

[sweep_shot]

$3b dollars,

There is going to be major losses. Looks like this could change the landscape of the sport for good depending on who bails out the ICC and and what cost!

A catastrophic financial loss is possibly needed to free ICC from the grip of India.

 

[BouncerGuy]

STAY ON TOPIC... NO PERSONAL REMARKS PLEASE

 

[Red-Indian]

I think JioStar might even pull out of their commitments to IPL going forward too if you lose players like Kohli, Rohit and Dhoni.

This isn’t the end of this I feel.

Unlikely. The IPL is really the primest of prime television content in India right now. You can't build a big subscription business without it.

JioHostar's annual revenue is on track to hit $4Bn this year. Of all their content, IPL is the one that drives the maximum viewership. You can judge that from the fact that Netflix which also has excellent Indian content barely drives $500M in revenue from India.

They currently pay $1B a year for the IPL rights. The next renewal will be for the 2028-2032 cycle. Given expected revenue increases from both subscription and advertising, I don't see why the BCCI shouldn't target at least a 50% increase in value for that cycle.

The problem is that the IPL is eating up the money for all other cricket. JioHotstar at this point can't afford to pay both $1B for the IPL and $600m for ICC cricket and $400m for all other cricket (India bilaterals etc.). This means half their revenue just on cricket rights. Not sustainable. They either need to raise subscription revenue or drive down costs for other cricket which is what they're trying to do.

 

[Vikram1989]

They either need to raise subscription revenue or drive down costs for other cricket which is what they're trying to do.

I think they are going with a smart plan.They can't let go of ipl rights as its a golden goose .They will increase the subscription fees later on once they are confident.now they are going after the weak link, icc, which is much easier to tackle and strangulate.I wont be surprised if bcci is also supporting them back-door.

 

[RidiculousMan]

I think JioStar might even pull out of their commitments to IPL going forward too if you lose players like Kohli, Rohit and Dhoni.

This isn’t the end of this I feel.

It'll cut the contribution from Indian broadcasters and sponsors. Making India's influence less on ICC

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I think JioStar might even pull out of their commitments to IPL going forward too if you lose players like Kohli, Rohit and Dhoni.

This isn’t the end of this I feel.

I don't think that's the case. Not yet, anyway. Jio don't want to commit to international cricket. IPL may have some correction but it won't be anywhere near this.

I feel Test cricket will be the first victim of this.

It's already being subsidised by ICC revenues and profits from leagues/white ball cricket.

Once boards feel the pinch of these corrections in valuations, they won't be able to justify spending on Test series which make massive losses.

Cricket Australia's Todd Greenberg has already hinted at that when CA's losses were revealed for the last FY

 

[Rajdeep]

ICC chief Jay Shah was supposed to make PCB chief grovel at the November meeting according to your spokespersons here, he was going to throw PCB out of membership for not handing over trophy…

Spreading lies?

The meeting was held as per custom with all ACC officials after the Asia cup

In the same meeting, Naqvi muted the mics of the BCCI officials who were crying, screaming and shouting like women

Imagine this arrogance after losing on 3 consecutive weekends and running away with the trophy.

 

[IronShield]

Unlikely. The IPL is really the primest of prime television content in India right now. You can't build a big subscription business without it.

JioHostar's annual revenue is on track to hit $4Bn this year. Of all their content, IPL is the one that drives the maximum viewership. You can judge that from the fact that Netflix which also has excellent Indian content barely drives $500M in revenue from India.

They currently pay $1B a year for the IPL rights. The next renewal will be for the 2028-2032 cycle. Given expected revenue increases from both subscription and advertising, I don't see why the BCCI shouldn't target at least a 50% increase in value for that cycle.

The problem is that the IPL is eating up the money for all other cricket. JioHotstar at this point can't afford to pay both $1B for the IPL and $600m for ICC cricket and $400m for all other cricket (India bilaterals etc.). This means half their revenue just on cricket rights. Not sustainable. They either need to raise subscription revenue or drive down costs for other cricket which is what they're trying to do.

Not sure if you noticed but their model works on providing cricket all year around with international tournaments thrown in. So realistically if IPL is a major factor for their revenue, what prompts Indians to continue subscription beyond two months of IPL?

 

[Red-Indian]

I think they are going with a smart plan.They can't let go of ipl rights as its a golden goose .They will increase the subscription fees later on once they are confident.now they are going after the weak link, icc, which is much easier to tackle and strangulate.I wont be surprised if bcci is also supporting them back-door.

This is quite possible.

I think the BCCI would much prefer to lose 38.5% of something rather than a 100% of it so I guess they won't stand in Jio's way if it wants to strongarm the ICC.

This is all pretty speculative though. I'm pretty sure the ICC has pretty well written contracts and won't allow Jio to renege too easily on the contract. They've pretty much held up their end in terms of tournaments and ensuring an India Pakistan game every tournament so I'm not sure how Jio's going to get away with claiming to not being able to pay. I've been involved in plenty of commercial contracting and both sides will protect themselves in deals on this size.

Jio will have to show something material has changed to make the original bid unviable. Can't just claim losses.

 

[Red-Indian]

Not sure if you noticed but their model works on providing cricket all year around with international tournaments thrown in. So realistically if IPL is a major factor for their revenue, what prompts Indians to continue subscription beyond two months of IPL?

Jio strategy I think is two fold - make annual plans very cheap (they push them especially hard before the IPL) and rely on the inertia of the monthly subscribers to not turn it off.

Jio yearly deals are very attractive
- Mobile only plan is Rs.149 for 3 months or alternatively Rs.499 per year
- Ad-Supported TV plan is Rs.299 for 3 months or Rs.899 per year
- Ad-free is Rs.299 a month or Rs.1499 annually.

As an aside, you'll notice that all these plans are very cheap. For comparison, I pay Rs.499 a month for my Netflix plan, Rs.199 a month for my Spotify etc. For the amount of entertainment I get on Jio, it's by far the most value. They could easily double prices and I suspect will lose a pretty small proportion of their subscriber base. They've used their financial clout to drive virtually all competition out of the market.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I don't think that's the case. Not yet, anyway. Jio don't want to commit to international cricket. IPL may have some correction but it won't be anywhere near this.

I feel Test cricket will be the first victim of this.

It's already being subsidised by ICC revenues and profits from leagues/white ball cricket.

Once boards feel the pinch of these corrections in valuations, they won't be able to justify spending on Test series which make massive losses.

Cricket Australia's Todd Greenberg has already hinted at that when CA's losses were revealed for the last FY

It will hit test cricket, associate growth and women's cricket.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Jio strategy I think is two fold - make annual plans very cheap (they push them especially hard before the IPL) and rely on the inertia of the monthly subscribers to not turn it off.

Jio yearly deals are very attractive
- Mobile only plan is Rs.149 for 3 months or alternatively Rs.499 per year
- Ad-Supported TV plan is Rs.299 for 3 months or Rs.899 per year
- Ad-free is Rs.299 a month or Rs.1499 annually.

As an aside, you'll notice that all these plans are very cheap. For comparison, I pay Rs.499 a month for my Netflix plan, Rs.199 a month for my Spotify etc. For the amount of entertainment I get on Jio, it's by far the most value. They could easily double prices and I suspect will lose a pretty small proportion of their subscriber base. They've used their financial clout to drive virtually all competition out of the market.

But this is not a Jio strategy. I paid the same for my mobile plan even 2 years ago when it was Disney Hotstar. In fact , it used to be even cheaper because you could buy it as a bundle (Airtel prepaid 1 year plan) and it was probably even cheaper (299 or 399 per year effectively )

Disney was trying to monopolise the market anyway .

 

[Red-Indian]

But this is not a Jio strategy. I paid the same for my mobile plan even 2 years ago when it was Disney Hotstar. In fact , it used to be even cheaper because you could buy it as a bundle (Airtel prepaid 1 year plan) and it was probably even cheaper (299 or 399 per year effectively )

Disney was trying to monopolise the market anyway .

I never had a mobile subscription so I wouldn't know but I do know that my 2 device subscription cost dropped to approximately half after Jio while content doubled or tripled. In fact I think IPL was free for a while.

You might be right though. What Jio is doing is an extension of what Hotstar had already started. Get folks hooked on and then steadily increase subscription rates.

I've realised I currently pay about 5K a month for all the subscriptions I carry across streaming, music and news. Way too much and I need to have a hard look.

 

[IronShield]

Jio strategy I think is two fold - make annual plans very cheap (they push them especially hard before the IPL) and rely on the inertia of the monthly subscribers to not turn it off.

Jio yearly deals are very attractive
- Mobile only plan is Rs.149 for 3 months or alternatively Rs.499 per year
- Ad-Supported TV plan is Rs.299 for 3 months or Rs.899 per year
- Ad-free is Rs.299 a month or Rs.1499 annually.

As an aside, you'll notice that all these plans are very cheap. For comparison, I pay Rs.499 a month for my Netflix plan, Rs.199 a month for my Spotify etc. For the amount of entertainment I get on Jio, it's by far the most value. They could easily double prices and I suspect will lose a pretty small proportion of their subscriber base. They've used their financial clout to drive virtually all competition out of the market.

I get that, but there has to be something else for inertia to kick in, consumer isn't stupid.

If guess the test will come if they drop ICC and curtail bilateral package from their service.

 

[Vikram1989]

This is quite possible.

Jio will have to show something material has changed to make the original bid unviable. Can't just claim losses.

Icc earned quite a good profits from below tournaments wc 23 and t20 wc 21/24. Common factor is that India is the host / winner .Interestingly Aus cricket board reported losses for t20 wc 22.Am guessing jio may project differences between expectations and actual results. Is it possible to blame the hotstar ?( original bidder's aggressive and ambitious plan).one more favourable factor for Jio is Jay Shah at the top .

ICC reports $474 mn surplus as T20 World Cup drives revenue

The ICC announced a $474 million surplus for 2024, fueled by the Mens T20 World Cup's success, where India clinched victory after 11 years. Despite a slight revenue dip from 2023's $839 million to $728 million, the T20 World Cup generated $691 million, highlighting its commercial appeal. India's...

m.economictimes.com

 

[Red-Indian]

I get that, but there has to be something else for inertia to kick in, consumer isn't stupid.

If guess the test will come if they drop ICC and curtail bilateral package from their service.

Yes we'll have to see. I don't actually think Jio wants to lose the ICC package. This is mostly posturing to show the ICC it has no leverage and try to squeeze some concessions and reductions.

The fact is ICC cricket is genuinely too costly for the broadcaster.

Here's an extract from the Times of India

The cost of a single IPL game at today’s global broadcast rights value is Rs 114 crore, which JioStar has been finding it difficult to sustain. Here, we’re talking about a tournament played at India prime time, involving top Indian and global cricketers, and is perched right up there among the global sports properties. Then, how exactly at Rs 138 crore per game will the broadcaster ever be able to sustain the value of ICC cricket rights? For the record, of the 179 matches, India will play only 28 games plus knockouts, if they qualify.

We're all fooling ourselves if we think the Indian public are some great cricket fans. They're only really interested in games in which India plays which means most of 600 Million annually for ICC tournaments is for the 6-7 (or if we're lucky 9-10) games India plays in the tournament. $50m to $100m per game is absurd!

 

[Rana]

I feel a sense of Indian panic here.

Ideally I would like TNT or SKY sports to sweep in here.

No more Indian backwas influence in the sport! Ganda Kar rahe hain yeh!

 

[Red-Indian]

Icc earned quite a good profits from below tournaments wc 23 and t20 wc 21/24. Common factor is that India is the host / winner .Interestingly Aus cricket board reported losses for t20 wc 22.Am guessing jio may project differences between expectations and actual results. Is it possible to blame the hotstar ?( original bidder's aggressive and ambitious plan).one more favourable factor for Jio is Jay Shah at the top .

ICC reports $474 mn surplus as T20 World Cup drives revenue

The ICC announced a $474 million surplus for 2024, fueled by the Mens T20 World Cup's success, where India clinched victory after 11 years. Despite a slight revenue dip from 2023's $839 million to $728 million, the T20 World Cup generated $691 million, highlighting its commercial appeal. India's...

m.economictimes.com

I'm no lawyer and I don't know for sure but I wouldn't think so. Claiming incompetence of the previous management rarely is a good enough reason to be able to wriggle out of legal contracts.

There usually has to be a force majeure type reason. For example, if India-Pakistan games stopped, I could see courts accepting it as a reason to renege on the deal since that's a significant moneymaker for the broadcaster.

But maybe I'm wrong and Jio feels it has some leverage.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I feel a sense of Indian panic here.

Ideally I would like TNT or SKY sports to sweep in here.

No more Indian backwas influence in the sport! Ganda Kar rahe hain yeh!

They are unable to bid properly for the Ashes man it's unlikely they can match an Indian bid.

 

[Rana]

They are unable to bid properly for the Ashes man it's unlikely they can match an Indian bid.

I wouldnt mind the ICC just taking a pay hike and getting rid of its Indian influence.

Let’s just accept cricket for what it is. We are not football. Heck even Rugby is a more popular sport in Europe than Cricket is.

It’s not appealing to anyone with the over influence of Indians, it’s just devaluing the appeal none the less!

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Icc earned quite a good profits from below tournaments wc 23 and t20 wc 21/24. Common factor is that India is the host / winner .Interestingly Aus cricket board reported losses for t20 wc 22.Am guessing jio may project differences between expectations and actual results. Is it possible to blame the hotstar ?( original bidder's aggressive and ambitious plan).one more favourable factor for Jio is Jay Shah at the top .

ICC reports $474 mn surplus as T20 World Cup drives revenue

The ICC announced a $474 million surplus for 2024, fueled by the Mens T20 World Cup's success, where India clinched victory after 11 years. Despite a slight revenue dip from 2023's $839 million to $728 million, the T20 World Cup generated $691 million, highlighting its commercial appeal. India's...

m.economictimes.com

We know getting Indian eye balls on the match is important. It's why ICC scheduled T20 WC in the Caribbean at a venue convenient for an Indian audience, but you can't really do much more to ensure Indian engagement. A media powerhouse should have factored in these things before making a bid of this size.

 

[IronShield]

I wouldnt mind the ICC just taking a pay hike and getting rid of its Indian influence.

Let’s just accept cricket for what it is. We are not football. Heck even Rugby is a more popular sport in Europe than Cricket is.

It’s not appealing to anyone with the over influence of Indians, it’s just devaluing the appeal none the less!

There is that too. Just keep it at the level that it belongs. It has limited appeal outside of the subcontinent with India in particular.

 

[Red-Indian]

I wouldnt mind the ICC just taking a pay hike and getting rid of its Indian influence.

Let’s just accept cricket for what it is. We are not football. Heck even Rugby is a more popular sport in Europe than Cricket is.

It’s not appealing to anyone with the over influence of Indians, it’s just devaluing the appeal none the less!

The danger in that is turning international cricket into a sideshow. If the main source of money is IPL/other league contracts, players will naturally prioritise their availability to those.

Cricket could end up becoming like the Basketball. NBA and other national Basketball leagues run close to 8 months and international basketball has to squeeze into the remaining few months and is treated essentially like a hobby.

 

[Rana]

If the main source of money is IPL/other league contracts, players will naturally prioritise their availability to those.

Which is fine.

It is what it is. Life will go on, the sport won’t die.

 

[IronShield]

Which is fine.

It is what it is. Life will go on, the sport won’t die.

I think it will be the better for it. More real fan engagement accessiblity and ownership of the sport itself without outside money ruining it.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I wouldnt mind the ICC just taking a pay hike and getting rid of its Indian influence.

Let’s just accept cricket for what it is. We are not football. Heck even Rugby is a more popular sport in Europe than Cricket is.

It’s not appealing to anyone with the over influence of Indians, it’s just devaluing the appeal none the less!

?? can you elaborate a bit on how exactly will get a pay hike, assuming you mean increase in pay?

 

[Ball Blazer]

It’s not a conspiracy

Jio simply overpaid for too much cricket, and now the economics no longer add up across ICC, bilaterals, and IPL

 

[sweep_shot]

I feel a sense of Indian panic here.

Ideally I would like TNT or SKY sports to sweep in here.

No more Indian backwas influence in the sport! Ganda Kar rahe hain yeh!

Agree with you 500%.

Indians turned cricket into a ghetto hodge-podge. It was a lovely English sport and it should return to being one again.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It’s not a conspiracy

Jio simply overpaid for too much cricket, and now the economics no longer add up across ICC, bilaterals, and IPL

Wrong. The merger hadnt taken place. Jiocinema had only bid 900 million for rights to Indian market.

2nd highest bid was 1.5 billion by Sony. This was a desperate bid Disney+Star because they had lost the IPL property

However, after the merger, IPL is back on JioStar and they really don't need ICC events, not at that price.

All member nations can expect a 30% cut in ICC revenue in the next 2 years.

 

[Red-Indian]

?? can you elaborate a bit on how exactly will get a pay hike, assuming you mean increase in pay?

I assume he means a paycut and mistyped.

It's a fools paradise though. Once the genie of commercialisation of a sport is out of the bottle, it can't be put back in. On the English Premier League forums, there's lots of people who moan English football was purer and better in the eighties before all the big TV money...you could be having a drink in the pub and your club's striker would walk in and you could have a chat.

People, especially the losers from a change, are always nostalgic for old times.

Unfortunately, if the IPL and other league cricket to a lesser extent becomes the dominant form of cricket taking over most of the calendar, guys like me will be the ones hit by the change and the losers. I'm too old now to get it up for Mumbai mega Indians Vs. Lucknow super giants over 20 bish-bash overs.

That's why I'm against International cricket getting a paycut. It would accelerate the move to league cricket.

I know the current system isn't fully fair...the India viewing public puts up most of the money and it gets spread over most of the world. But...it works. Other sports like this work as well - the English Premier League for instance. Most of the money comes in due to the big clubs - City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal but it gets spread out thinly over the league and lower leagues.

 

[sweep_shot]

I know the current system isn't fully fair...the India viewing public puts up most of the money and it gets spread over most of the world. But...it works.

It only works for Indians but not for rest of the world. India is not whole world in case you didn't know.

Cricket used to be a lovely sport. It is now an Indian sport full of petty politics and drama. It needs to return to being a lovely sport again.

 

[IronShield]

I assume he means a paycut and mistyped.

It's a fools paradise though. Once the genie of commercialisation of a sport is out of the bottle, it can't be put back in. On the English Premier League forums, there's lots of people who moan English football was purer and better in the eighties before all the big TV money...you could be having a drink in the pub and your club's striker would walk in and you could have a chat.

People, especially the losers from a change, are always nostalgic for old times.

Unfortunately, if the IPL and other league cricket to a lesser extent becomes the dominant form of cricket taking over most of the calendar, guys like me will be the ones hit by the change and the losers. I'm too old now to get it up for Mumbai mega Indians Vs. Lucknow super giants over 20 bish-bash overs.

That's why I'm against International cricket getting a paycut. It would accelerate the move to league cricket.

I know the current system isn't fully fair...the India viewing public puts up most of the money and it gets spread over most of the world. But...it works. Other sports like this work as well - the English Premier League for instance. Most of the money comes in due to the big clubs - City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal but it gets spread out thinly over the league and lower leagues.

The economics of it has to make sense. They created this bubble to try to gain a monopoly, and it's a gamble that hasn't paid off. You can't keep rinsing the fans, and in this instance, Indian fans to prop up the bubble. Outside of India it is a minority sport and their expectations should match this.

I mean look at how ECB packaged and sold a completely worthless loss making product of the 100 to mainly Indian investors who seemingly had money to throw away. How are these investors ever going to recoup the 1billion they spent? It has very little real traction in the UK so it's back to tapping Indian fans again or the gambling markets.

I think cricket needs to downsize or it will bankrupt itself outside of India.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Which is fine.

It is what it is. Life will go on, the sport won’t die.

From a Pakistani pov - it worries me.

Rather than being somewhat equitable, if the Indians walk away entirely we could be frozen out of cricket and a parallel eco system develops. These guys have already got their claws into cricket in the major countries, and they are already excluding Pakistan.

The present scenario although far from ideal is ok. BCCI is able to punish Pakistan but knows it can't land a knockout blow as it will disrupt the ICC. Pakistan is able to take a few blows and hit back occasionally too without overly damaging the strength of the Indians. There is some gray areas that we can fight over, but if push comes to shove then India will walk away dented but intact,and the wider community will drift towards it, whereas Pakistan has not so much to fall back on.

We should be careful what we wish for. I don't think a return to the old days is possible.

For us, an ideal scenario is renegotiation, with ICC Indo-Pak games included, so that we have some value in cricket for the other boards. Some leverage we can occasionally threaten to use.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan is able to take a few blows and hit back occasionally too without overly damaging the strength of the Indians.

Hopefully big financial losses and Indian team's decline (already started in Test format) will overly damage Indian grip over cricket.

We should be careful what we wish for. I don't think a return to the old days is possible.

I think it is possible to return to old days. Just need to reduce greed and show willpower.

If an asteroid from outer space destroys India, will cricket stop? I don't think so. Humans always find solutions.

 

[Rana]

Rather than being somewhat equitable, if the Indians walk away entirely we could be frozen out of cricket and a parallel eco system develops. These guys have already got their claws into cricket in the major countries, and they are already excluding Pakistan.

Tbh Pakistan is already frozen out in the current system

I don’t mind it at all. Indians can rely on IPL income and the PCB could set up their own window in which the same overseas players will be available completely

It will work out for Pakistan as well. We won’t draw as much because our market isn’t as big as India’s but we will draw enough in a sustainable fashion

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Hopefully big financial losses and Indian team's decline (already started in Test format) will overly damage Indian grip over cricket.




I think it is possible to return to old days. Just need to reduce greed and show willpower.

If an asteroid from outer space destroys India, will cricket stop? I don't think so. Humans always find solutions.

The two boards that won't be significantly affected by this are BCCI and ECB.

 

[Devadwal]

$3b dollars,

There is going to be major losses. Looks like this could change the landscape of the sport for good depending on who bails out the ICC and and what cost!

Yesterday Pakistan took a loan of $1.2 billion from the IMF so that Pakistan can help the ICC with that money.

 

[IronShield]

From a Pakistani pov - it worries me.

Rather than being somewhat equitable, if the Indians walk away entirely we could be frozen out of cricket and a parallel eco system develops. These guys have already got their claws into cricket in the major countries, and they are already excluding Pakistan.

The present scenario although far from ideal is ok. BCCI is able to punish Pakistan but knows it can't land a knockout blow as it will disrupt the ICC. Pakistan is able to take a few blows and hit back occasionally too without overly damaging the strength of the Indians. There is some gray areas that we can fight over, but if push comes to shove then India will walk away dented but intact,and the wider community will drift towards it, whereas Pakistan has not so much to fall back on.

We should be careful what we wish for. I don't think a return to the old days is possible.

For us, an ideal scenario is renegotiation, with ICC Indo-Pak games included, so that we have some value in cricket for the other boards. Some leverage we can occasionally threaten to use.

The real question is why don't Pakistan fans pay for cricket like Indians do.

They have 300 million subscribers on their platforms paying for cricket. Why can't say 20-40 million out of the 250 million people in Pakistan be bothered to pay. That will go a long way in ensuring that Pakistan has somewhat of an assured footing and doesnt need to rely on anyone else.

So lets just work this out on $1 a month....

20,000,000 *1 =20,000,000 *12= $240,000,000/year
40,000,000 *1 =40,000,000 *12= $480,000,000/year

You can halve that to 50 cents per month subs, the numbers still come out very well. This is still between 10-20% of the population who should be able to pay. In comparison, Indian fans are paying roughly between $3-$10 per month.

It's an absolute embarrassment that Pakistan where cricket has a captive audience is looking over at outsiders to provide them with major revenue. It is in fact shocking. They frankly deserve nothing.

 

[Red-Indian]

The economics of it has to make sense. They created this bubble to try to gain a monopoly, and it's a gamble that hasn't paid off. You can't keep rinsing the fans, and in this instance, Indian fans to prop up the bubble. Outside of India it is a minority sport and their expectations should match this.

I mean look at how ECB packaged and sold a completely worthless loss making product of the 100 to mainly Indian investors who seemingly had money to throw away. How are these investors ever going to recoup the 1billion they spent? It has very little real traction in the UK so it's back to tapping Indian fans again or the gambling markets.

I think cricket needs to downsize or it will bankrupt itself outside of India.

You're mostly right.

In the long run, whether international cricket continues to generate money will depend on Pakistan, Bangladesh and to a lesser extent Sri Lanka's ability to commercialise the game internally like India has done. I agree with you that we've probably hit the limit (and gone over it) on the Indian public's interest in international cricket and their willingness to pay. Australia and England are already at their limit.

In the short run though, there is potential to stretch this bubble out for a while. Fake it till you make it so to say. I have zero sympathy with fleeced Billionaires (even if they're Indians). If the ICC can continue to juggle the balls in the air and keep money flowing to international cricket and keep it relevant for a while, I'm all for it. Hopefully Pakistan and Bangladesh get their act together and contribute their bit and international cricket stays vibrant.

Basically, I'd prefer we at worst go down to the Football model where international competition is still relevant rather than the Basketball model where it's basically a novelty.

 

[Red-Indian]

The real question is why don't Pakistan fans pay for cricket like Indians do.

They have 300 million subscribers on their platforms paying for cricket. Why can't say 20-40 million out of the 250 million people in Pakistan be bothered to pay. That will go a long way in ensuring that Pakistan has somewhat of an assured footing and doesnt need to rely on anyone else.

So lets just work this out on $1 a month....

20,000,000 *1 =20,000,000 *12= $240,000,000/year
40,000,000 *1 =40,000,000 *12= $480,000,000/year

You can halve that to 50 cents per month subs, the numbers still come out very well. This is still between 10-20% of the population who should be able to pay. In comparison, Indian fans are paying roughly between $3-$10 per month.

It's an absolute embarrassment that Pakistan where cricket has a captive audience is looking over at outsiders to provide them with major revenue. It is in fact shocking. They frankly deserve nothing.

I see you landed up at the same solution while I was typing my response. It's the only real way forward.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The real question is why don't Pakistan fans pay for cricket like Indians do.

They have 300 million subscribers on their platforms paying for cricket. Why can't say 20-40 million out of the 250 million people in Pakistan be bothered to pay. That will go a long way in ensuring that Pakistan has somewhat of an assured footing and doesnt need to rely on anyone else.

So lets just work this out on $1 a month....

20,000,000 *1 =20,000,000 *12= $240,000,000/year
40,000,000 *1 =40,000,000 *12= $480,000,000/year

You can halve that to 50 cents per month subs, the numbers still come out very well. This is still between 10-20% of the population who should be able to pay. In comparison, Indian fans are paying roughly between $3-$10 per month.

It's an absolute embarrassment that Pakistan where cricket has a captive audience is looking over at outsiders to provide them with major revenue. It is in fact shocking. They frankly deserve nothing.

Mohsin Naqvi should commission consultants to explore strategies to monetise cricket more effectively.

Youa re absolutely right.

I dont think it has much to to with the performance of the team, over even the economy, There is a deeper unbothered attitude towards these things by Pakistanis. Our peoples spending motivations are different to Indians, our relationship with cricket is vastly different, so we can't try to replicate them, we need to come up with solutions that work and connect with the locals.

Isn't it odd how Ramzan cup night matches get more viewership in stadiums/grounds ( and sometimes online streamers) than test matches? What attracts people there, but not to international cricket. Find out the reasons and act on it.

 

[NishanKonar]

Mohsin Naqvi should commission consultants to explore strategies to monetise cricket more effectively.

Youa re absolutely right.

I dont think it has much to to with the performance of the team, over even the economy, There is a deeper unbothered attitude towards these things by Pakistanis. Our peoples spending motivations are different to Indians, our relationship with cricket is vastly different, so we can't try to replicate them, we need to come up with solutions that work and connect with the locals.

Isn't it odd how Ramzan cup night matches get more viewership in stadiums/grounds ( and sometimes online streamers) than test matches? What attracts people there, but not to international cricket. Find out the reasons and act on it.

I was watching PSL games & there wer mostly empty stands. All this " PSL is best " looks very ridiculous when local crowds dont even bother to turn up

I doubt how much financial.viablity PSL has. Wont be surprised if its actually losing money

 

[Savak]

Time for belt tightening by all ICC member countries.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I was watching PSL games & there wer mostly empty stands. All this " PSL is best " looks very ridiculous when local crowds dont even bother to turn up

I doubt how much financial.viablity PSL has. Wont be surprised if its actually losing money

It's the case in Karachi.

The other stadiums were ok but not packed to the rafters always.

We are never going to be able to sell our a Narendra Modi 100k capacity stadium in Pakistan.

I think in general XYZ is the best comparisons look silly. As time as passed in actually quite proud of the PSL. It has done well with limited capital, without a dedicated window, in a country where security was (is) a problem. What does it really mean in practical terms to be the best? Unless there is a fair champions league style tournament it just means who has the most money right?

Yeah it's not the IPL but there is more to be positive about than negative and honestly if there were no strained ties I think Indian capital would have flowed into PSL before the 100 and other leagues.

 

[IronShield]

Mohsin Naqvi should commission consultants to explore strategies to monetise cricket more effectively.

Youa re absolutely right.

I dont think it has much to to with the performance of the team, over even the economy, There is a deeper unbothered attitude towards these things by Pakistanis. Our peoples spending motivations are different to Indians, our relationship with cricket is vastly different, so we can't try to replicate them, we need to come up with solutions that work and connect with the locals.

Isn't it odd how Ramzan cup night matches get more viewership in stadiums/grounds ( and sometimes online streamers) than test matches? What attracts people there, but not to international cricket. Find out the reasons and act on it.

They are happy to spend in restaurants and shopping.

When I was doing the back of the fag packet numbers above, it made me angry to think that there is such apathy towards cricket, or paying for content no matter how miniscule. This needs to change. PCB should give what the public wants, if its local tape ball tournaments then do so. Invite private investment and fund it all properly. The reason these tournaments are popular, its because there is fan engagement and players resonate with ordinary public as they are locals. Anyone can become a star if they start performing.

PCB should tap into what the people want and not impose something that no one wants to watch.

 

[Rajdeep]

Agree with you 500%.

Indians turned cricket into a ghetto hodge-podge. It was a lovely English sport and it should return to being one again.

First of all cricket is not an English sport, its a colonial sport. Not many in England cares about it. It is like saying, since Arabs were original muslims, it should return only to them and sub continent converts have no say.

Second, I atleast appreciate Pakistani posters giving various perspective on how to break India's hedgemony on ICC. Not that none of it will happen but atleast they are trying. All you are doing is, saying us the problem but not giving any solution. Cricket should go back to old days. Okay. But how? Tell us that also na if you are so brave.

Basically you want ECB, ACB and other gora boards to do all the hard work for you so that Bengalis in Dhaka slum can enjoy seeing Litton Kumar Das bat.

Not sure if you ever worked in a corporate world but saying only the problem, whinning about it 24*7 without providing a solution is a big red flag in any employee.

Cricket will simply remain with India because hardly anyone in Eng or Aus cares about this sport. The fact that these boards are making money as well as ICC at the expense of India meaning these gora boards will never want to go back old days. If it was so easy, they would have done it long time ago.

Pakistan and Bangladesh should focus on their onfield performance first before making these big statements. BD series with any team (except India or Eng) dont even get a tv rights here in UK and had to resort to free view in youtube.

Some people I tell you....