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ICC should ban Pakistan (PCB)

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For political interference. If I’m not wrong - ICC has a policy stating no cricket board can indulge in political appointments/involvement. The constant political cloud over the PCB has destabilized the overall cricketing structure in the country. Because of constant chop and change of chairman, there’s no long term vision. The prime minister’s involvement has gone on for decades and its time to abolish this rule.

PCB should be given a two year timeline to sort out their issues and if they fail to do so they should be banned for five years. PCB must become an independent body.

[MENTION=6745]DHONI183[/MENTION] agreed with me. We had a discussion over this matter.
 
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Agree. But it's funny no one really was this bothered when Imran Khan was PM. As soon as Pmln came in power and now they removed Ramiz Raja all Pti lot are out. Amount of hate towards PCB and even Afridi is funny.
 
Technically they should but for financial reasons they cannot.

A Pakistan-India match is what fills the ICC coffers. If Pakistan gets banned, literally every ICC tournament will be a loss-making exercise.
 
Ramiz Raja alluded to the same subject:

"It frustrates when you are told to step aside midway through after 12 months when you were given a term of three years. This is to fill a political person. It will not help cricket. It leads to pressure on the cricket board, system, national team and captain. The constitution has to be robust. It happens only in Pakistan. I will continue to raise the subject at international platforms. It has become a joke."
 
PCB should've been banned many times over for political interference.

Sri Lanka should also be suspended - I believe their Sports Minister must sign off on each squad !

However there's one rule for bigger nations and another for nations like Zimbabwe.
 
Why wasn’t this thread created when Imran was the PM?
 
This is not a PTI vs PMLN debate.

I have always been against political involvement in cricketing matters of the PCB. This circus must come to its conclusion. This shall not drag on forever. It leads to chaos.

Ramiz Raja was also a political appointment which was wrong.
 
Ehsan Manis tenure had ended in Aug 2021 and as per the constitutional process the PM sent his two nominees ie Ramiz to the PCB BOG and Ramiz was elected by the BOG as the new PCB chairman. Nothing unconstitutional about the process which was fair and square.

Sethi has been appointed and imposed on the PCB via an adhoc process and Ramiz was sent packing before his tenure. A more unconstitutional adhoc process. That said Ramiz deserved to be fired for poor performance.
 
Agree. But it's funny no one really was this bothered when Imran Khan was PM. As soon as Pmln came in power and now they removed Ramiz Raja all Pti lot are out. Amount of hate towards PCB and even Afridi is funny.

Why wasn’t this thread created when Imran was the PM?

Exactly.

Government interference is halal when PTI is making the appointments but haram when other parties are doing it.
 
Ehsan Manis tenure had ended in Aug 2021 and as per the constitutional process the PM sent his two nominees ie Ramiz to the PCB BOG and Ramiz was elected by the BOG as the new PCB chairman. Nothing unconstitutional about the process which was fair and square.

Sethi has been appointed and imposed on the PCB via an adhoc process and Ramiz was sent packing before his tenure. A more unconstitutional adhoc process. That said Ramiz deserved to be fired for poor performance.

Prime Minister should not be responsible for sending nominees to BOG. ICC must streamline a political-free process that PCB has to follow or risk being banned for five years.

Prime Minister has thousands of other major issues to worry about. Appointing a PCB head is not one of them.
 
The mods should ban the OP for creating such a stupid thread 🧵..

Thank you. IK did the same, nawaz and zardari before him. Dont be such hypocrites no way do I condone such blatant political interference but it was also haram when rambo benefited from it. Similarly to the current victimisation of pti members azam swati etc it was just as bad when you had pmln ppl locked up without charge for 22 months. I was a PTI voter and saw this happening then, called it out and wasn’t taken seriously
 
Because a proper process was followed to appoint Ramiz.

Yeah like when misbah was appointed head coach without even having coached an under 10’s school team or when Misbah was part of the committee that sacked MA. Call a spade a spade Rambo was appointed politically and removed and the same for sethi
 
Agreed, nothing to do with the fact that IK and Ramiz were close during their playing days.
Ramiz was competent and selected on merit after Wasim Khan resigned. Every appointment in PCB was due properly after due diligence under PTI.

Sethi was appointed at 2:30 am after change in constitution and raided the PCB office with his goons at 9 am. This is a new stinking PCB and I hope and expect things will become worse from here on.
 
This is just how it is man, you can't expect western standards of due process in country like Pakistan. It is a banana state, as backwards and corrupt as it ever was, this is just reflective of that.
 
Ramiz was competent and selected on merit after Wasim Khan resigned. Every appointment in PCB was due properly after due diligence under PTI.

Sethi was appointed at 2:30 am after change in constitution and raided the PCB office with his goons at 9 am. This is a new stinking PCB and I hope and expect things will become worse from here on.

The only “due diligence” that was followed during PTI’s tenure was who could shine shoes the best.

Mani & Wasim had no ideas & plans of their own. They were Imran’s puppets. They didn’t even the courage to stand their ground & take their own decisions.

Imran, Mani & Wasim collectively destroyed Pakistan cricket with their domestic cricket reforms in 2019. The experiment of mimicking the Australian setup proved to be a disaster.

4 years later, Pakistan Test team has turned into a joke. It is the fruits of the domestic cricket reforms of 2019 that were copy pasted from Australia with no planning, no thinking & no understanding of the fact that the dynamics of the two countries are totally different.

Some say that Wasim was reluctant & had his doubts but as a puppet, he didn’t have the courage to stamp his authority.

Ramiz had more authority & freedom even when Imran was still PM, he wasn’t a dummy like Mani & Wasim. However, he was unable to reverse the damage caused by the dummies & became the sacrificial lamb.

Sethi is better than Ramiz & a man of action but he too has his work cut out because the damage caused by Imran, Mani & Wasim might be irreparable.
 
The only “due diligence” that was followed during PTI’s tenure was who could shine shoes the best.

Mani & Wasim had no ideas & plans of their own. They were Imran’s puppets. They didn’t even the courage to stand their ground & take their own decisions.

Imran, Mani & Wasim collectively destroyed Pakistan cricket with their domestic cricket reforms in 2019. The experiment of mimicking the Australian setup proved to be a disaster.

4 years later, Pakistan Test team has turned into a joke. It is the fruits of the domestic cricket reforms of 2019 that were copy pasted from Australia with no planning, no thinking & no understanding of the fact that the dynamics of the two countries are totally different.

Some say that Wasim was reluctant & had his doubts but as a puppet, he didn’t have the courage to stamp his authority.

Ramiz had more authority & freedom even when Imran was still PM, he wasn’t a dummy like Mani & Wasim. However, he was unable to reverse the damage caused by the dummies & became the sacrificial lamb.

Sethi is better than Ramiz & a man of action but he too has his work cut out because the damage caused by Imran, Mani & Wasim might be irreparable.

Mani worked for the ICC and Wasim worked for ECB. Both had excellent credentials to lead the PCB.

If they did not deliver it was not Imran Khan’s fault.
 
If they get banned and don't sort out their issues then what will happen?

Or if they sort out their issues and ban gets uplifted then what's the guarantee that they won't repeat the same 'mistake' again?
 
I agree with the thread. ICC should suspend PCB following Sethi’s shameful appointment.
 
For political interference. If I’m not wrong - ICC has a policy stating no cricket board can indulge in political appointments/involvement. The constant political cloud over the PCB has destabilized the overall cricketing structure in the country. Because of constant chop and change of chairman, there’s no long term vision. The prime minister’s involvement has gone on for decades and its time to abolish this rule.

PCB should be given a two year timeline to sort out their issues and if they fail to do so they should be banned for five years. PCB must become an independent body.

[MENTION=6745]DHONI183[/MENTION] agreed with me. We had a discussion over this matter.

Same sorta political influence does the BCCI have from the Indian govt.
Too much indulgence and the appointment of Jay Shah, not visiting pakistan etc
 
IK never removed Sethi. Sethi resigned.

He resigned because he was already informed that he was going to be sacked by Imran. It was better to resign than to be kicked out by a petty man who couldn’t look past political differences.
 
Mani worked for the ICC and Wasim worked for ECB. Both had excellent credentials to lead the PCB.

If they did not deliver it was not Imran Khan’s fault.

It was Imran’s fault because he did not empower them. However, they were also incompetent.

Their past credentials didn’t land them the job. It was their sycophancy.
 
He resigned because he was already informed that he was going to be sacked by Imran. It was better to resign than to be kicked out by a petty man who couldn’t look past political differences.

Source?

If that was petty, then what is Sethi’s appointment?
 
It was Imran’s fault because he did not empower them. However, they were also incompetent.

Their past credentials didn’t land them the job. It was their sycophancy.

How do you know their past credentials didn’t land them the job?
 
For political interference. If I’m not wrong - ICC has a policy stating no cricket board can indulge in political appointments/involvement. The constant political cloud over the PCB has destabilized the overall cricketing structure in the country. Because of constant chop and change of chairman, there’s no long term vision. The prime minister’s involvement has gone on for decades and its time to abolish this rule.

PCB should be given a two year timeline to sort out their issues and if they fail to do so they should be banned for five years. PCB must become an independent body.

[MENTION=6745]DHONI183[/MENTION] agreed with me. We had a discussion over this matter.

Agree , PCB should be banned now . FIFA banned Pakistan football federation for the same reasons, but ICC is a weak organization , can't take any action .
 
The only “due diligence” that was followed during PTI’s tenure was who could shine shoes the best.

Mani & Wasim had no ideas & plans of their own. They were Imran’s puppets. They didn’t even the courage to stand their ground & take their own decisions.

Imran, Mani & Wasim collectively destroyed Pakistan cricket with their domestic cricket reforms in 2019. The experiment of mimicking the Australian setup proved to be a disaster.

4 years later, Pakistan Test team has turned into a joke. It is the fruits of the domestic cricket reforms of 2019 that were copy pasted from Australia with no planning, no thinking & no understanding of the fact that the dynamics of the two countries are totally different.

Some say that Wasim was reluctant & had his doubts but as a puppet, he didn’t have the courage to stamp his authority.

Ramiz had more authority & freedom even when Imran was still PM, he wasn’t a dummy like Mani & Wasim. However, he was unable to reverse the damage caused by the dummies & became the sacrificial lamb.

Sethi is better than Ramiz & a man of action but he too has his work cut out because the damage caused by Imran, Mani & Wasim might be irreparable.

This will be a great post to reuse possibly very soon, or maybe in a few years when Sethi and co are shown the door. Just replace the names with Shehbaz, Sethi and Sheikh. I’m not even personally against any of these guys because everyone is a hypocrite at these political levels but I just find it amusing that both sides can’t see that they’re doing the exact same thing and have done the same things.
 
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It is interesting and confusing - PCB does not use taxpayers money, yet the government runs it. Government should be ‘neutral’ just like army is supposed to be in politics. Or does the army run the PCB?
 
Looking at current status of PCB, memories go back to 1960’s South African cricket board & Basil D oliviera affair.

Politicized cricket boards create good headlines but ground level performances are a thing which are registered in history books.

And as per current history
In 2022 pakistan played 3+ 3+ 1 = 7 test matches at home
And won none. Yes zero.
 
Nothing like that is feasible. ICC will say Pak's political situation has nothing to do with us.
 

Sethi — who resigned as PCB chairman soon after Prime Minister Imran Khan’s oath-taking ceremony — also said that the PCB cannot function if the government is not on its side which is why he vacated his position.

“Realistically speaking, if the Patron of Pakistan cricket does not like the Chairman then there is a problem as he represents a powerful state institution and the fact is that the PCB cannot function when the government is against it,” he said.

“Even though I had two more years to go before the end of my term and technically the Patron could not remove me without removing the whole board, I decided to step aside for two reasons. The first point being that if the Patron does not want me, there is no point hanging around as it will hurt and destroy the PCB and you don’t want to do that.

https://cricketpakistan.com.pk/en/n...internal-rivalries-and-corruption-najam-sethi

You can find other sources from 2018 too & statements from Sethi that clearly indicate that Imran had no plans of continuing with him.

If that was petty, then what is Sethi’s appointment?

Sethi did a very good job in his first tenure. He was brought in with two main objectives. (1) establish PSL & (2) initiate the process of bringing teams to Pakistan. He achieved both.

Imran should have supported him after becoming PM because he was doing a good job. Unfortunately, he couldn’t swallow his ego & replaced him with two dummies who destroyed Pakistan cricket.
 
This will be a great post to reuse possibly very soon, or maybe in a few years when Sethi and co are shown the door. Just replace the names with Shehbaz, Sethi and Sheikh. I’m not even personally against any of these guys because everyone is a hypocrite at these political levels but I just find it amusing that both sides can’t see that they’re doing the exact same thing and have done the same things.

The way PCB is impacted by changes in federal government is messy. Imran could have done something about it & cleaned up the mess but he chose not to.

Ramiz is moaning about political influence now but it was the same political influence that got him the job in the first place.

When you let the PM be the patron & view PCB as a ministry then these things will happen.
 
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We have allowed a lot of political talk on this thread but keep it connected to the topic only - no need to bring in any wider discussions.
 
Its better to be aware of the PCB constitution before making such claims. There are loop holes in the PCB constitution. These loopholes existed in the 2014 constitution as well as the 2019 constitution. Posters who discuss PCB's chairman election, first need to study the constitution of PCB of both years. Even before Najem Sethi came, the PCB constitution was fragile even before.

I am gonna provide a very simple breakdown of al things.

Ministry concerning with PCB
Like all govt offices, PCB falls under a govt ministry or division. These ministries and division provide a constitutional body to the govt offices. They make them legitimate offices under the Pakistani law and the International concerning body.

Ministry of inter provincial coordination is a constitutional body that is responsible for the coordination between federal and provincial bodies. Pakistan Cricket Board and Pakistan Sports Board fall under this ministry and division.

MoIPC role


Because MoIPC acts as a constitutional body, it is this ministry or division that can submit a summary for either restoration of a previous PCB constitution or get a new constitution made.

The application or new constitution needs to be submitted to the senate. In the senate there will be a standing committee that takes care of such day to day affairs.

Senate standing committee
Members of any senate committee are elected senators. Not more than 14 senators can exist in a committee, and one member cannot be members of more than 5 senate committees.

The committee looks after the procedures and conduct of business.

PTI has 27 seats, PPP has 20 seats and PMLN has 18 seats in the senate.
Committee Name: Inter- Provincial Coordination; Committee Type: Standing Committee

Now here is the interesting part, now as I explained above, the inter provincial has a standing committee made up of senators. And to pass any order they need to vote amongst themselves.

Now lets take a look at the members of the standing committee that dealt with Rameez Raja's faith

Inter Provincial Coordination stanning committee members:

Faisal Javed (PTI)
Saeed Hashmi (BAP)
Ishaq Dar (IND)
Gurdeep Singh (PTI)
Azam Tarar (PMLN)
Khalida Mandhro (PPP)
Muhtaq Ahmad (JIP)
Jam Mahtab Dahar (PPP)
Kamran Michael (IND)
Shaukat Tari (PTI)

Now alot of members in this are from 2018 and 2021. THey could had done this against Waseem Khan or Ehsan Mani but they didn't.

PCB constitution of 2014
https://www.pcb.com.pk/downloads/PCB-Constitution-Complete-2014.pdf
Now lets take a look at the constitution of PCB itself.

People think that it was the 2014 constitution that removed Rameez Raja, when in fact it was not. In terms of who can be added or removed, the 2014 constitution is is no different than the 2019 constitution, only difference is that 2014 has departments while 2019 has city associations.

As for the chairman, the 2014 constitution states:

PCB chairman to be elected from an election that only involves Board of Governor members.
How can one become a Board of governor?
4 representatives of regions, and 4 representatives of the departments, along with 2 members to be nominated by the PATRON, who is the prime ministers

Now what usually happens is that no BOG member from region gets to become a PCB chairman, but its the nominated guy by the PM that becomes the chairman. I think only Zaka Ashraf was the last guy to become chairman from a department BOG member

2 members to be nominated by Patron means that yes the PCB is not independent and govt influences it.

Hopefully the 2019 constitution would deal with this issue right?

PCB constitution of 2019

https://www.pcb.com.pk/downloads/PCB Constitution 2019 + Amendment.pdf

The PCB constitution says that chairman should be from the BOG members. Ok that's good, that's just like the 2014 constitution.

3 members from the city associate to be made BOG member
4 independent members, that should be approved by the BOG from amongst the nominations recommended by the nomination committee of the board.
2 members to be nominated by the Patron, who is the PM

Hence, even the 2019 constitution, which every tom, dick and harry celebrated as being a revolution in cricket, has the same issue. The govt gets to pick 2 members in the BOG.

And one of these two member end up becoming the chairman, hence the chairman is always decided by the political govt, be it the 2014 constitution or the 2019 constitution of PCB.


But what if someone else stands up in election against the BOG member

Yes this can happen, but if someone does this, the govt can come hard against that person as they can be dismissed for misconduct by any body of the federal or provincial govt.
Usually the BOG members from association are these poor ex cricketers that are happy they have a good official post and dont wanna lose it due to stepping on the wrong toes.

The department BOG members are different as these are respected officials who have worked their way and are educated individuals that can stand up.


Final Analysis


Both constitutions are the same.

ICC only looks at whether your board is recognized by the official govt and its constitutional bodies or not. As explained above PCB has the protection of the country's constitutional body so ICC cant dismiss PCB or ban them

Afghanistan cricket board had an issue where a cricket federation was made. Taj Malik and Allah Dad noori had created their own boards which created a mess and ICC almost banned Afghanistan Cricket, because the Taliban govt operated without any official constitution and thus most of their sporting bodies had no official status.

The issue in our case is that we are not violating any laws as the proper constitutional process and legal process was followed. It is up to the country to eradicate the legal loopholes that we ourselves created.

PTI's govt itself did not remove the legal loophole where 2 members of the BOG could be added by the PM himself. So offcourse the office was gonna be politicalized.

Also, with 3 region heads becoming BOG members, do you believe they would be educated enough to be PCB chairman? Atleast the Departments hire educated people who move their way up in their career and than get such posts.

There are a lot of loop holes in our system. I understand why 2 members from the Patron have to be nominated and its only because the regional heads are dumb ex cricketers with no education. Often these guys end up being so biased that they play their own region players because they made promises that if you vote for me I will allow your players to get selected and play.

So the choice is between either Patron's nominated people or Departments elected people.

So which system would you prefer?

A third system could be that the City association have their offices build in each concerned city and the top management should consist of people having education of atleast 16 years and cricket experience isn't required, only admin or other experience related to your job skills needed. You are not gonna find educated ex cricketers

Anyways, this is the whole issue, hence, ICC cant go around banning boards, as these are the ground realities
 
Stop whining about political appointments or mixing sports with politics. Your Prime Minister is the Patron of your cricket board since time immemorial.
 
Ehsan Manis tenure had ended in Aug 2021 and as per the constitutional process the PM sent his two nominees ie Ramiz to the PCB BOG and Ramiz was elected by the BOG as the new PCB chairman. Nothing unconstitutional about the process which was fair and square.

Sethi has been appointed and imposed on the PCB via an adhoc process and Ramiz was sent packing before his tenure. A more unconstitutional adhoc process. That said Ramiz deserved to be fired for poor performance.

Will Pakistani Cricket have the same fate as Our Football? Let’s hope not….

If ICC does take action against PCB, say goodby to PSL.
 
But the talunt!

Hypothetically if this happened, would the KPK production line have a claim to play for Afghanistan?.
 
In an ideal world, yes, the ICC should intervene because this circus has been going on since forever, but the governing body probably just wants to pretend being nice and want to stay out of what they would want to term as an "Internal political issue."

Zimbabwe were an easy target, you know, and their matches or involvement in the game doesn´t earn you too much. Losing them meant no actual loss to begin with.
 
In an ideal world, yes, the ICC should intervene because this circus has been going on since forever, but the governing body probably just wants to pretend being nice and want to stay out of what they would want to term as an "Internal political issue."

Zimbabwe were an easy target, you know, and their matches or involvement in the game doesn´t earn you too much. Losing them meant no actual loss to begin with.

Selective applying of the rules. Pakistan v India is the moneyspinner. Love them or loathe them, both integral to cricket
 
Because Imran didn't suspend the PCB constitution. He simply appointed Mani after Sethi resigned. Do your research before posting.
 
PCB should not be banned , that would be a tragedy for pakistani people who only have one sports to follow.

PCB heads should not be appointed by govt , there should be elections in all the associations and from there they should bring in Board of governers and then they should elect their chairman for a tenure. No govt should have the right to change and chop the chairman whenever they want , it should all be upto the BOG.
 
ICC will and cannot ban a nation like Pakistan. Simply won't happen.

The "interference" from the Govt has been there for a long time, why now?
 
ICC will and cannot ban a nation like Pakistan. Simply won't happen.

The "interference" from the Govt has been there for a long time, why now?

It may have been there for a long time but it has to stop, constant chop and change has made us lose 99% of bilateral deciders over the last two decades. Nobody wants to see cricket down the drain like hockey.
 
It may have been there for a long time but it has to stop, constant chop and change has made us lose 99% of bilateral deciders over the last two decades. Nobody wants to see cricket down the drain like hockey.

That is more of a question for us in Pakistan cricket than the ICC, to be honest.
 
I believe political interference happens in all main Asian countries.

BD have serious political interference. So do Sri Lanka and Pakistan. I think India have it too.

So, Pakistan or other countries shouldn't be banned over "political interference". I don't know why ICC banned Zimbabwe. That was hypocritical.
 
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Zimbabwe officials had to embezzle literally all the money so the players and facilities had nothing before the ICC intervened. Eventually. After YEARS of that level of corruption and players complaining they weren't getting paid despite millions of ICC handouts every year.

So a few changes of personnel inside PCB are not going to make many waves.
 
Zimbabwe officials had to embezzle literally all the money so the players and facilities had nothing before the ICC intervened. Eventually. After YEARS of that level of corruption and players complaining they weren't getting paid despite millions of ICC handouts every year.

So a few changes of personnel inside PCB are not going to make many waves.

I see. In that case, Zimbabwe ban was justified.

ICC should only get involved if it directly concerns them.
 
Zimbabwe officials had to embezzle literally all the money so the players and facilities had nothing before the ICC intervened. Eventually. After YEARS of that level of corruption and players complaining they weren't getting paid despite millions of ICC handouts every year.

So a few changes of personnel inside PCB are not going to make many waves.

No that's not correct actually, in fact it is the opposite, ICC played a part in reinstating the old board. It was the Zimbabwe Governenment that intervened and replaced the board on the basis of corruption.

ICC doesn't proactively interfere, they need to receive a complaint from the incumbent chairman or related people of authority, in PCBs case Ramiz did not lodge a complaint with the ICC.

In zimbabwe's case Tavenga Mukhulani lodged a complaint that the government has interfered and has replaced him.
 
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