ICC World Cup 2023 | First ever World Cup where Pakistan's bowling is the weak link

[DandyFellow]

Whilst, I see a lot of posters criticizing Pakistan batting on 345 runs on a flat track but let me tell you that most teams win games when they score around 350. But the way, Pakistan team bowled, NZ was well placed for 400+ score if they were batting first. Such poor is the bowling we are taking into the World Cup.

As title suggests, I believe that for the first time our bowling is the weak link in an ODI World Cup and we will have more chances whilst chasing rather than defending any total.

 

[topspin]

Bowling is indeed the weak link but the problem as always, Pakistan's batting approach is outdated and is 10 years behind. They target 300+ scores whilst maintaining a minimal risk strategy and therefore as a result they always end up making below par totals.

But this is to be expected when you've got the likes of Imam, Captain Milestone and Rizwan in your batting order. You reap what you sow.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Pakistan had a trash bowling line up in 2007 World Cup, way worse then this line up

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Pakistan's approach is weak, their mindset is still the same that score 270 or 280 runs and then u r good to go, but they need to realise that cricket has been changed now and they also have to adopt bazball style cricket.

this current bowling unit of pakistan can't defend 300 in any game.

 

[ex-q-zit]

How does the absense of 1 bowler, Naseem, suddenly make a team's bowling world class to weak link? Does it mean it was always weak in ODIs but was pushed under the carpet due to playing minnows or C teams? Why did Babar not develop the bench by playing bowlers like Usama, Zaman, abrar, Dahani etc against teams like Afghanistan, Nepal, Netherlands etc like India does? This not only didn't develop the bench but also injured thr primary bowler due to overork.

 

[Rana]

You will see that batting is equally rubbish

 

[Cricket Warrior]

How does the absense of 1 bowler, Naseem, suddenly make a team's bowling world class to weak link? Does it mean it was always weak in ODIs but was pushed under the carpet due to playing minnows or C teams? Why did Babar not develop the bench by playing bowlers like Usama, Zaman, abrar, Dahani etc against teams like Afghanistan, Nepal, Netherlands etc like India does? This not only didn't develop the bench but also injured thr primary bowler due to overork.

very well said, now the reality check came on a wrong time

 

[Cricket Warrior]

You will see that batting is equally rubbish

probably batting will fire 6 out of 10 times but trust me this bowling unit wont defend target of 300 almost 8 out of 10 times.

 

[topspin]

You will see that batting is equally rubbish

When you look at the pitch and the NZ bowlers. 350 wasn't even par, it was competitive at best. We still couldn't make 350. Same as the Nepal game, couldn't score 350 in that game either.

If we can't score 350 against NZ B/C and Nepal, what hope does that give us in this tournament?

 

[Rana]

When you look at the pitch and the NZ bowlers. 350 wasn't even par, it was competitive at best. We still couldn't make 350. Same as the Nepal game, couldn't score 350 in that game either.

If we can't score 350 against NZ B/C and Nepal, what hope does that give us in this tournament?

We won’t score 350 against Netherlands

And one or two of their blokes will play a blinder and chase the runs

 

[Usman Chadda]

How does the absense of 1 bowler, Naseem, suddenly make a team's bowling world class to weak link? Does it mean it was always weak in ODIs but was pushed under the carpet due to playing minnows or C teams? Why did Babar not develop the bench by playing bowlers like Usama, Zaman, abrar, Dahani etc against teams like Afghanistan, Nepal, Netherlands etc like India does? This not only didn't develop the bench but also injured thr primary bowler due to overork.

Shaheen was good with the new ball.

Naseem was decent with the new ball, good in the middle and extremely good at the death.

Rauf was decent in the middle and good at the death.

The spinners were pretty much carried by these three and took cheap wickets to give the illusion that they are wicket-taking options.

Wasim jnr has also lost his potency, as he usually followed up good spells at the top by Shaheen and Naseem.

Naseem will be missed.

 

[Rana]

probably batting will fire 6 out of 10 times but trust me this bowling unit wont defend target of 300 almost 8 out of 10 times.

So then the Batting needs to realise they need 350+

They can’t just rest on their laurels

 

[DandyFellow]

Pakistan had a trash bowling line up in 2007 World Cup, way worse then this line up

Not saying that this bowling lineup is the worst ever. Mainly comparing batting and bowling from same World Cups. In 2007, our batting was even worse than the bowling like always.

 

[topspin]

We won’t score 350 against Netherlands

And one or two of their blokes will play a blinder and chase the runs

Very much a possibility because Netherlands play the right brand of cricket. They'll do their research and will be mentally well prepared.

Our bowlers might face the shock of their lives if they don't get it right on the day.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Not saying that this bowling lineup is the worst ever. Mainly comparing batting and bowling from same World Cups. In 2007, our batting was even worse than the bowling like always.

Now with naseems injury and no quality spinner, I get your point on current attack

 

[Mockingbird]

Lack of quality spinner + Naseem’s injury will hit you guys badly. Teams now know that they have to just get through Shaheen’s opening spell and they will now form plans accordingly.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Indian surfaces will be unforgiving for quicks. You need to hit something like 155 to remotely be able to beat the bat. 150ks will be treated like pies. Completely unknown player thrashed Ferguson for 4 sixes in one over despite him bowling at 150 clicks. You need change ups, wide yorker execution skills, skillful spinning options. Even that is not enough. but if you have gun fielding unit like Australia you can make up for that. Look how Australia fielded in the third ODI against India. They saved atleast 25 runs on the field. Catching was top notch.

 

[Major]

someone should google 2007 world cup squad

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Bowling is only the weak link when you keep picking so-called bowlers who can neither take wickets nor hit effectively. Fans and teams overrate their teams' bowling strength way too much and then get exposed.

Pakistan won in 1992 because, despite all the hype about Pakistani bowling, your captain was honest enough to see that apart from Wasim, Aqib, and Mushtaq, there were no bowlers in the country that were worth picking in the first XI. He himself was finished as a bowler by '89 and was playing as a batter who came in at #3 and who bowled a bit.

So, he stacked the batting with Ijaz Ahmed coming in at 8 officially and got overs from Aamer Sohail and Ijaz and himself and finished 20 overs off like that.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Bowling is only the weak link when you keep picking so-called bowlers who can neither take wickets nor hit effectively. Fans and teams overrate their teams' bowling strength way too much and then get exposed.

Pakistan won in 1992 because, despite all the hype about Pakistani bowling, your captain was honest enough to see that apart from Wasim, Aqib, and Mushtaq, there were no bowlers in the country that were worth picking in the first XI. He himself was finished as a bowler by '89 and was playing as a batter who came in at #3 and who bowled a bit.

So, he stacked the batting with Ijaz Ahmed coming in at 8 officially and got overs from Aamer Sohail and Ijaz and himself and finished 20 overs off like that.

Back then there was no concept of sending bench strength to play bilaterals. Most of the teams would always field the top XI. Nowadays playing agianst B string C string side tend to give false sense of security. Especially in the last 3 or 4 years with so many leagues popping up players miss a lot of matches. Real test will be in the world cup where teams will field full strength teams.

 

[hitthestump]

someone should google 2007 world cup squad

2015 takes the cake for me.

Ehsan Adil, Rahat Ali, Mohammad Irfan, Sohail Khan, Wahab Riaz and Yasir Shah all made the trip.

Those were some dark days for Pakistan cricket....

 

[hitthestump]

Lack of quality spinner + Naseem’s injury will hit you guys badly. Teams now know that they have to just get through Shaheen’s opening spell and they will now form plans accordingly.

Even Shaheen is prone to a phainta.

In ODI's Pakistan's strength has really been in having quality spinners to tide things over. Hafeez, Afridi, Ajmal and co were always effective in those middle overs. Even recently Shadab has been good for us.

Shadab has completely lost it and the only other economical spinner we had in Imad Wasim didn't make the squad for some reason.

Inexplicably this looks like it could be an absolute mauling.

 

[Major]

2015 takes the cake for me.

Ehsan Adil, Rahat Ali, Mohammad Irfan, Sohail Khan, Wahab Riaz and Yasir Shah all made the trip.

Those were some dark days for Pakistan cricket....

Nope.
For Australia wickets, we needed 4 pacers and a spinner was just being take for the sake of it.

Sohail Khan bowled well in the world cup. He took wickets against South Africa in a low scoring match, i think he got De villers. In the game against India he also took a fifer.

Rahat Ali was a good bowler. Guy gets bashed for the drop catch, but he had the ability to swing the ball which he did. He was a talent that got wated.

Irfan had natural bounce and Wahab Riaz was the guy who fought hard against Australia.

Ehsan Adil was a very talented bowler that the PCB should had worked on.

2015 bowling attack was just not developed enough, it was a good attack, infact a terrific attack looking at the conditions. We lost the 2015 world cup due to our pathetic batting. Bowling was never the issue in that tournament

 

[topspin]

Nope.
For Australia wickets, we needed 4 pacers and a spinner was just being take for the sake of it.

Sohail Khan bowled well in the world cup. He took wickets against South Africa in a low scoring match, i think he got De villers. In the game against India he also took a fifer.

Rahat Ali was a good bowler. Guy gets bashed for the drop catch, but he had the ability to swing the ball which he did. He was a talent that got wated.

Irfan had natural bounce and Wahab Riaz was the guy who fought hard against Australia.

Ehsan Adil was a very talented bowler that the PCB should had worked on.

2015 bowling attack was just not developed enough, it was a good attack, infact a terrific attack looking at the conditions. We lost the 2015 world cup due to our pathetic batting. Bowling was never the issue in that tournament

Other than Rahat Ali, I agree with all of these assessments of the Pakistan pace attack during that WC.

Rahat Ali had the skills to swing it conventionally with the new ball and also to reverse it. However, he had zero bowling inteliigence.

Spot on about Ehsan Adil. He had a lot going for him.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Indian surfaces will be unforgiving for quicks. You need to hit something like 155 to remotely be able to beat the bat. 150ks will be treated like pies. Completely unknown player thrashed Ferguson for 4 sixes in one over despite him bowling at 150 clicks. You need change ups, wide yorker execution skills, skillful spinning options. Even that is not enough. but if you have gun fielding unit like Australia you can make up for that. Look how Australia fielded in the third ODI against India. They saved atleast 25 runs on the field. Catching was top notch.

Lol no one bowls 155. 145+ is hard to hit if bowled intelligently on any pitch.

 

[TheSultan]

Pakistan had a trash bowling line up in 2007 World Cup, way worse then this line up

Exactly - I was just going to point this out

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Nope.
For Australia wickets, we needed 4 pacers and a spinner was just being take for the sake of it.

Sohail Khan bowled well in the world cup. He took wickets against South Africa in a low scoring match, i think he got De villers. In the game against India he also took a fifer.

Rahat Ali was a good bowler. Guy gets bashed for the drop catch, but he had the ability to swing the ball which he did. He was a talent that got wated.

Irfan had natural bounce and Wahab Riaz was the guy who fought hard against Australia.

Ehsan Adil was a very talented bowler that the PCB should had worked on.

2015 bowling attack was just not developed enough, it was a good attack, infact a terrific attack looking at the conditions. We lost the 2015 world cup due to our pathetic batting. Bowling was never the issue in that tournament

I'd kill for that attack now. I'm seriously worried what scores we will be hammered for. Going to be embarrassed.

 

[TheSultan]

The 2015 attack was competitive because of Aus pitches. Put that attack in the subcontinent. And they’d be thrashed too. Not saying it’s worse than today’s “attack” but nothing to write home about

 

[Mockingbird]

I honestly think Pak will win only if they chase in India - dew under lights is a big factor in India. No score is safe, especially if you factor in the Pakistani attack.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Lol no one bowls 155. 145+ is hard to hit if bowled intelligently on any pitch.

Umran bowled really fast so Was Ferguson in 2022.

Need For Speed: The Fastest Deliveries Bowled In IPL 2022 So Far

Fastest deliveries bowled in IPL 2022, updated after each game: Lockie Ferguson & Umran Malik have been the fastest on the speed gun so far.

wisden.com

There are some pitches like Wankhede, Chinnaswamy (with red soil), and Dharamsala will offer more bounce. Tall guys can extra a bit of bounce. If you can land your yorker well you can survive. But if you miss the mark you will be destroyed by top batsmen. There are so many aggressive batsman in world cricket.

 

[Major]

The 2015 attack was competitive because of Aus pitches. Put that attack in the subcontinent. And they’d be thrashed too. Not saying it’s worse than today’s “attack” but nothing to write home about

Bro why would one play rahat, ehsan and sohail khan on asian pitches. That makes no sense.

For asia pitches you need a spin attack and a reverse swing bowler. Pakistan forgot to develop their spin attack due to going gaga over shaheen and naseem and rauf

 

[saqib.rai]

How fast opinions change

Best bowling lineup in the World before Asia Cup

Weak bowling lineup after 2 losses and one injury

Woww

 

[shah9425]

Other than Rahat Ali, I agree with all of these assessments of the Pakistan pace attack during that WC.

Rahat Ali had the skills to swing it conventionally with the new ball and also to reverse it. However, he had zero bowling inteliigence.

Spot on about Ehsan Adil. He had a lot going for him.

I agree Rahat was a decent bowler sadly his career went down
He lives near my house

 

[Farabi]

I would instead say first ever World Cup since 2003 where both batting and bowling are not weak, as at least the batting is OK.

 

[kron]

Pakistan's approach is weak, their mindset is still the same that score 270 or 280 runs and then u r good to go, but they need to realise that cricket has been changed now and they also have to adopt bazball style cricket.

this current bowling unit of pakistan can't defend 300 in any game.

No team has ever chased 300 plus in a ko game. No team. Highest was I believe around 285.

Our bowling is still quality. It's just without naseem we have been struggling as the replacements haven't been up to the mark. At full strength we can compete with any team. Our spinners? What do they do? What's their job?

 

[kron]

2015 takes the cake for me.

Ehsan Adil, Rahat Ali, Mohammad Irfan, Sohail Khan, Wahab Riaz and Yasir Shah all made the trip.

Those were some dark days for Pakistan cricket....

Wahab riaz was class though in that tournament. If Watson wicket was gone, we would have ran through them. What a spell it was.

 

[kron]

Nope.
For Australia wickets, we needed 4 pacers and a spinner was just being take for the sake of it.

Sohail Khan bowled well in the world cup. He took wickets against South Africa in a low scoring match, i think he got De villers. In the game against India he also took a fifer.

Rahat Ali was a good bowler. Guy gets bashed for the drop catch, but he had the ability to swing the ball which he did. He was a talent that got wated.

Irfan had natural bounce and Wahab Riaz was the guy who fought hard against Australia.

Ehsan Adil was a very talented bowler that the PCB should had worked on.

2015 bowling attack was just not developed enough, it was a good attack, infact a terrific attack looking at the conditions. We lost the 2015 world cup due to our pathetic batting. Bowling was never the issue in that tournament

Agreed whole heartedly.

 

[Jazx]

Indian surfaces will be unforgiving for quicks. You need to hit something like 155 to remotely be able to beat the bat. 150ks will be treated like pies. Completely unknown player thrashed Ferguson for 4 sixes in one over despite him bowling at 150 clicks. You need change ups, wide yorker execution skills, skillful spinning options. Even that is not enough. but if you have gun fielding unit like Australia you can make up for that. Look how Australia fielded in the third ODI against India. They saved atleast 25 runs on the field. Catching was top notch.

Really!!! Nothing less than 155? How does Indian bowlers survive here then. Even bumrah is not that fast.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Maybe get in Arshad Iqbal somehow in to the squad?

 

[shamaan]

Pakistan bowling is the week link.

 

[mominsaigol]

Pakistan should try to chase in all of their games if they can

 

[Energy]

No it's not. Rahat, Ehsan, Sohail Khan, Wahab and Yasir was our bowling attack in 2015.

Short memories.

 

[mominsaigol]

No it's not. Rahat, Ehsan, Sohail Khan, Wahab and Yasir was our bowling attack in 2015.

Short memories.

Wahab is bad in limited. He's a match winning killer bowler in world cups, he's far superior to any of our bowlers atm besides shaheen and Rauf.

 

[Syed1]

Wahab is bad in limited. He's a match winning killer bowler in world cups, he's far superior to any of our bowlers atm besides shaheen and Rauf.

I wouldn't say match winning killer bowler. His average in WC's is 26 and that is skewed by performance against Afghanistan, Ireland and Zimbabwe. He has one fifer in 20 ODI WC matches and that is against India (WC 2011 semi)

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

Due to naseem's injury things have changed for bowling unit. Hope hasan ali can do better but we know he will go for 70-80 runs.

 

[mominsaigol]

I wouldn't say match winning killer bowler. His average in WC's is 26 and that is skewed by performance against Afghanistan, Ireland and Zimbabwe. He has one fifer in 20 ODI WC matches and that is against India (WC 2011 semi)

View attachment 136949

His performance against India in sf and Australia in sf is something no bowlers of purs is ever replicating, not even shaheen or Rauf

 

[ElRaja]

How fast opinions change

Best bowling lineup in the World before Asia Cup

Weak bowling lineup after 2 losses and one injury

Woww

naseem effect, 20 overs of potentially penetrative fast bowling versus 30 means uve lost a significant amount of potency.

also any potential injury means 20 overs of wasim and hassan, which on these pitches doesnt bare thinking about.

unless hassan, wasim or usama bowl way out of their skin and level up like no one is expecting pak do indeed have one of the shallowest bowling depths.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Pakistan's Bowling

First Warm up game against New Zealand
Conceded 346 runs in 43.4 overs.

In today's warm up game Australia
Conceded 351 runs in 50 overs.

 

[Mp812]

Pakistan's Bowling

First Warm up game against New Zealand
Conceded 346 runs in 43.4 overs.

In today's warm up game Australia
Conceded 351 runs in 50 overs.

Relax its a warm up game . bowlers dont want to expose all their tricks in inconsequential game or get injured bending their back. In real game Aus score will be 275 not 350

 

[jnaveen1980]

This ground is famous for knuckle ball merchants like Bhuvi, sandeep. In the IPL SRH did not even play two of their fastest bowlers Umran and Tyagi due to this. Faster you bowl faster you will disappear. You have to be really skillful.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Rauf is a T20 bowler, wasim jnr a glorified tape ball bowlers, so yes current attack looks awful interms of 3rd and 4th bowling options

 

[FreakCricket]

Pakistani spinners pitch either too full or too short, Labuschagne and maxwell are pitching on good areas where batsman have to come forward to play creating chances if its tossed up unlike pitching way too full tossed up.

Shabad having brain farts over and over again.

 

[RehanG]

lol you didn't watch 07 and 15 WC.

Is just because of the pitches/grounds. It's that the batting is below par for such pitches.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistan's Bowling

First Warm up game against New Zealand
Conceded 346 runs in 43.4 overs.

In today's warm up game Australia
Conceded 351 runs in 50 overs.

Getting taken up quite regularly now, even in Asia cup they got hammered.

What’s going on.
The bowling coach has to answer.

 

[hassan918]

Pakistan bowling attack is definitely not in the best form that can be a big problem for Pakistan in the World Cup.

 

[sam_ahm]

2015 their batting and bowling both were weak links

2007 bowling was easily the weaker link as they went in without Asif, Shoaib and Razzak.

 

[Saj]

Warm-up matches and flat tracks but conceding 697 runs in 93.4 overs at a run-rate of 7.44 is far from satisfactory.

Pakistan teams always look at their best with wicket-taking bowlers and when they attack the opposition batters. But this time around the wicket-taking options look limited.

Shaheen or bust! Rauf with an occasional decent performance. The rest at the moment seem to be defensive options.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

pitches that India is currently providing are making most of the bowlers so ordinary because there seems to be no assistance at all for bowlers on these tracks.

 

[jnaveen1980]

We have to see how the pitches for the actual world cup.

 

[hassan918]

Pakistan team director Mickey Arthur has shared his views on Pakistan bowling while talking to media earlier today. This is what he said:

"I think our bowling attack is up there as one of the best and with runs on the board our bowlers can generally defend that. So, you watch the likes of England and Australia, etc, playing this brand of cricket. Our guys will follow that. There's no doubt about that. They're good enough to do that. But we're playing a brand that we call the Pakistan way. We're playing a brand that is very, very particular to Pakistan and suits our team dynamic. And that's a brand that we're going to hopefully win the World Cup with."

 

[DandyFellow]

Bowling showing it's true colors today.

 

[riddu]

all the players underperforming due to kiddie captain kiddo azam

 

[hassan918]

all the players underperforming due to kiddie captain kiddo azam

Our bowling might not be performing great but this has been a great run chase by our batters so not everyone is under performing.

 

[shamaan]

The bowling is toothless.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

need to focus on our middle overs bowling attack by bringing in some genuine spinners like Usama or Abrar, who can get u some wickets in middle part of the game, else we will keep getting thrashed.

 

[Kianig89]

Alot worse we were in Caribbean, Rao Iftikhar Rana Naved Sami and Kaneria

 

[Kroll]

Consistently giving away 320+ scores in recent times, we must have one of the worst bowling units around. It was the bowling that lost the match today, Pak isn't chasing 360+ against Aus.

 

[hassan918]

need to focus on our middle overs bowling attack by bringing in some genuine spinners like Usama or Abrar, who can get u some wickets in middle part of the game, else we will keep getting thrashed.

Honestly speaking, Usama and Abrar don't have enough experience to be successful against the world's best batters in such a huge tournament as we saw this happened in the match against Australia when Usama went for 82 runs in his 9 overs.

 

[Rana]

On 3 out of 4 occasions, Pakistani bowling has done its best to keep Pakistan in the game, able to compete.

-They luckily stopped Netherlands from chasing a below par total at Haiderabad.
-They luckily managed to peg back SL to 344 when they should have scored 400
-they once again saved Pakistan from getting thrashed for a gaurenteed 400 after their captain threw them into a lions den in Bangalore.

It’s the batting that is once again, ONCE AGAIN that is below par.

In fact, I would argue that this is the worst batting line up in Pakistan’s World Cup history after all the hype that surrounds it!

 

[Rana]

Every half decent Batsman turning up and making mince meat of our bowlers. Bashing them left right and centre. Mentally dismantling them…

But our captain sends meek, timid players who replicate his mentality to take revenge on the oppositions bowlers!

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Pakistan team director Mickey Arthur has shared his views on Pakistan bowling while talking to media earlier today. This is what he said:

"I think our bowling attack is up there as one of the best and with runs on the board our bowlers can generally defend that. So, you watch the likes of England and Australia, etc, playing this brand of cricket. Our guys will follow that. There's no doubt about that. They're good enough to do that. But we're playing a brand that we call the Pakistan way. We're playing a brand that is very, very particular to Pakistan and suits our team dynamic. And that's a brand that we're going to hopefully win the World Cup with."

What's that brand and way? Has he elaborated that yet or has someone asked him?
England SA way is go guns blazing.
India NZ way is stop runs in middle overs.

What exactly is Pakistan way?

 

[Kianig89]

Care to share the 2007 50 over WC, Rao Iftikhar Rana Naveed Sami Kaneria , definitely the worst

or 2015 Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali Ehsan Adil M.Irfan Y.Shah, Wahab

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan bats till 10 with bowlers having no purchase they are able to get closer to the target. But on surfaces that have help the batting line up with half baked technique against bounce will be exposed. Will suffer a massive collapse. This is a risky strategy. Loading the side with players who can bat but average with ball. Works only on dead tracks and against poor bowling attacks. Moment zampa got some bite out of the surface entire line up collapsed.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Pakistan bats till 10 with bowlers having no purchase they are able to get closer to the target. But on surfaces that have help the batting line up with half baked technique against bounce will be exposed. Will suffer a massive collapse. This is a risky strategy. Loading the side with players who can bat but average with ball. Works only on dead tracks and against poor bowling attacks. Moment zampa got some bite out of the surface entire line up collapsed.

And this strategy is against general nature of Pakistan. They always pick a really strong bowling line up.