ICC World Test Championship - 30 Highest totals against bowling units

[Buffet]

ICC test championship - 30 Highest totals against bowling units

I have highlighted the worst bowling unit: Pakistan giving the top 4 out of the top 6 scored in this championship.

I have also highlighted the best two bowling units: India and Aus appearing only once in this list. More importantly, they appear near the bottom.
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I noticed that I took 29 rather than 30 in this list by mistake and Aus does appear at 30th position.

Anyway, it's clear that Aus and India have extremely well to not give too many runs consistently. Yes, they can have off tests here and there and they can go for 500+ runs as well, but when you appear only once to twice and that too near the bottom then it means you are bowling pretty well as a unit.

Pakistan needs to do something here. You can't keep appearing in the top 4 out of the top 6 if you bowl well. Yes, fielding has been poor many times, but Aus/Ind dropped tons of catches, and yet they did not allow 575-650 runs.

The first step in improving something is to find out the main problems. If fielding is used as the main reason for teams having a fun time against Pakistani bowling then you won't fix the bowling problem.

I see many posts talking about fielding and posters saying that's why bowling stats look poor. One poster keeping talking about height. Some used to talk about Yasir and him being the main reason. Some posters were arguing about Naseer doing pretty well when NZ was looking for quick runs in the last test and that was a sign of setting up batsmen.

None of them are the main reason to give 600 runs so many times in SENA. The main reason is the pace unit is really pathetic. They don't have the skills to set up batsmen when they are not looking to take risks. A handful of Pakistani fans realize the main issue and pointed it out openly. Hopefully, Pakistani management realizes this issue and do something about it. You can't simply throw a bunch of things and hope that something will stick. That's a poor way to go.

I really loved the way Pakistan batted in 2nd test. Batting is not really great by any stretch of the imagination, but I see many posters saying batting is the weakest link. I don't agree with that. Bowling is so poor that it's not even worth debate for me.

Fixing the bowling unit should be the top priority for management. Before you fix it, you have to admit that it's horrible. Sure, the bowling unit will do much better if you simply improve fielding, but bowling simply looks ordinary here.

What do you all think?

 

[aloo paratha]

Our fast bowling has been in a tough spot overseas for the entirety of the 2010s decade. It becomes quite evident when you see that no Pakistan pacer has taken 200 test wickets in some ridiculous amount of time (I don't recall exactly how long). Most of our test success in 2010s came through spinners and batsman. Pacers like Wahab, Junaid and Rahat Ali were decent enough in Asia.

 

[Suleiman]

Agree 100% and I think most people realize this.

Batting wise only the openers have been really poor.

But the pace battery lacks discipline and has no skill. People blame height of bowlers a lot but Indian pacers are not that tall either apart from Ishant. Bumrah is maybe 6’0” everyone else like Shami is 5’10” or below, yet they have the bowling skill to not concede runs by the 1000s regardless of where they are playing.

Not saying height doesn’t bring advantage in some cases, but to blame that or speed alone is not the way to go. It is a combination of these factors and other factors such as no bowling skill to take advantage of the new ball or reverse swing the old one.

 

[Buffet]

Our fast bowling has been in a tough spot overseas for the entirety of the 2010s decade. It becomes quite evident when you see that no Pakistan pacer has taken 200 test wickets in some ridiculous amount of time (I don't recall exactly how long). Most of our test success in 2010s came through spinners and batsman. Pacers like Wahab, Junaid and Rahat Ali were decent enough in Asia.

I think Waqar debuted in the 80s and he is the last one getting to 200 wickets. I may be wrong here and someone can correct me.

Basically, no pacer debuting after 80s has gotten to 200+ wickets. Someone was seriously arguing that it's due to Pakistan having lots of variety. I don't even know what can you say then.

 

[Hasan123]

Some eye opening numbers. You are right about our bowlers. They don’t know how to set up batters and when a batter gets a role, they have no clue. Can remember Buttlers assault which won England that test in the summer.

 

[Buffet]

Agree 100% and I think most people realize this.

Batting wise only the openers have been really poor.

But the pace battery lacks discipline and has no skill. People blame height of bowlers a lot but Indian pacers are not that tall either apart from Ishant. Bumrah is maybe 6’0” everyone else like Shami is 5’10” or below, yet they have the bowling skill to not concede runs by the 1000s regardless of where they are playing.

Not saying height doesn’t bring advantage in some cases, but to blame that or speed alone is not the way to go. It is a combination of these factors and other factors such as no bowling skill to take advantage of the new ball or reverse swing the old one.

I just looked, Bumrah is 5'10".

Yes, agree here. Height is an advantage, but that should come much later. The focus should be on basic skills. Without skills, height won't help. Sure, if the two bowlers have the same skills then the height will help. Randomly keep talking about height when bowlers lack basic skills means very little understanding of cricket. Then there is random talk about speed. 135 KPH is pretty good if you have good skills. Sure, if you can sustain 140 KPH then it's even better, but most bowlers don't operate in that range for the entire test. It's not T-20. It's not a speed contest, it's about picking up wickets by giving the least amount of runs.

 

[aloo paratha]

I think Waqar debuted in the 80s and he is the last one getting to 200 wickets. I may be wrong here and someone can correct me.

Basically, no pacer debuting after 80s has gotten to 200+ wickets. Someone was seriously arguing that it's due to Pakistan having lots of variety. I don't even know what can you say then.

Hopefully Shaheen will get 200+ test wickets and break that pathetic record. Maybe Hasan Ali could do it?

 

[Buffet]

Hopefully Shaheen will get 200+ test wickets and break that pathetic record. Maybe Hasan Ali could do it?

Shaheen should unless he breaks down due to overplaying. Shaheen needs to learn setting up skills as well, but he has some other basic skills to get better. If he adds setting up skills with more stamina, he will have a very good career. Have not seen Ali recently to say much about him.

 

[ManFan]

Pakistan’s bowling has been poor.

The batting is decent besides the openers, Fawad, and Azhar.

 

[Titan24]

I think Waqar debuted in the 80s and he is the last one getting to 200 wickets. I may be wrong here and someone can correct me.

This is correct. There are numerous reasons including some ordinary pacers we have produced but, thats not the only reason. Have had discussions with few posters on this issue.

Injuries in the careers of pacers like Shoaib, Gul and Junaid along with Asif and Amir getting banned in 2010 (Two best pacers who are young as well taken out of any team at start of the decade is a huge setback) and no cricket in Pakistan. The adapted home UAE has slow wickets and fast bowling had to take a back seat while spinners lead from the front. Stats of some of the top pacers in UAE can be seen and with exception of few everyone struggled.

Thats also a fact that we didnt produce a lot of top quality pacers in the last decade but, the above mentioned factors exaggerated the issue and cant be ignored.

 

[Buffet]

Some eye opening numbers. You are right about our bowlers. They don’t know how to set up batters and when a batter gets a role, they have no clue. Can remember Buttlers assault which won England that test in the summer.

Yeah, it makes a huge difference.

If the opposition is batting against good bowling units then they keep coming at you. They keep probing and even a set batsman does not pile on runs easily. Yes, a good batsman can still score runs, but they have to play very well. It's not like just survive the first 15-20 overs then there is no issue in scoring runs. Take Wagner, he simply keeps coming at you even if there are 150 runs partnership. Now, you can keep scoring, but it's not freebies.

 

[Buffet]

This is correct. There are numerous reasons including some ordinary pacers we have produced but, thats not the only reason. Have had discussions with few posters on this issue.

Injuries in the careers of pacers like Shoaib, Gul and Junaid along with Asif and Amir getting banned in 2010 (Two best pacers who are young as well taken out of any team at start of the decade is a huge setback) and no cricket in Pakistan. The adapted home UAE has slow wickets and fast bowling had to take a back seat while spinners lead from the front. Stats of some of the top pacers in UAE can be seen and with exception of few everyone struggled.

Thats also a fact that we didnt produce a lot of top quality pacers in the last decade but, the above mentioned factors exaggerated the issue and cant be ignored.

Agree with this. I won't take 200 wickets stats literally. Asif should have surely gotten 200+ wickets. Playing in UAE was also a factor. Anyway, Pakistan has a rich legacy of pacers and despite all problems, I hope to see some good pacers from Pakistan.

 

[GenericBrand]

Lol, man in the last 48 hours so many threads, stats and posts highlighting and exposing Pakistan's atrocious bowling woes.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/mAUY1J8KizU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Rana]

Meri

Aankhen

Khul Gayiiiiii

 

[JaDed]

Meri

Aankhen

Khul Gayiiiiii

I heard that in Akki’s sarcastic voice but am sure you didn’t think it would be any different

 

[King_Kohli]

Good analysis [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION]

 

[Buffet]

Good analysis [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION]

Not much analysis, but many posters talk about height, age, fielding, etc rather than focusing on the root cause.

Many posted here are knowledgeable about bowling, but some talk too much random stuff. Offcourse right age, height etc will make things better, but you can't make it better without skills. Skills...... huge gap and then other things come.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

ICC test championship - 30 Highest totals against bowling units

I have highlighted the worst bowling unit: Pakistan giving the top 4 out of the top 6 scored in this championship.

I have also highlighted the best two bowling units: India and Aus appearing only once in this list. More importantly, they appear near the bottom.
.
.

View attachment 105903
.
.

I noticed that I took 29 rather than 30 in this list by mistake and Aus does appear at 30th position.

Anyway, it's clear that Aus and India have extremely well to not give too many runs consistently. Yes, they can have off tests here and there and they can go for 500+ runs as well, but when you appear only once to twice and that too near the bottom then it means you are bowling pretty well as a unit.

Pakistan needs to do something here. You can't keep appearing in the top 4 out of the top 6 if you bowl well. Yes, fielding has been poor many times, but Aus/Ind dropped tons of catches, and yet they did not allow 575-650 runs.

The first step in improving something is to find out the main problems. If fielding is used as the main reason for teams having a fun time against Pakistani bowling then you won't fix the bowling problem.

I see many posts talking about fielding and posters saying that's why bowling stats look poor. One poster keeping talking about height. Some used to talk about Yasir and him being the main reason. Some posters were arguing about Naseer doing pretty well when NZ was looking for quick runs in the last test and that was a sign of setting up batsmen.

None of them are the main reason to give 600 runs so many times in SENA. The main reason is the pace unit is really pathetic. They don't have the skills to set up batsmen when they are not looking to take risks. A handful of Pakistani fans realize the main issue and pointed it out openly. Hopefully, Pakistani management realizes this issue and do something about it. You can't simply throw a bunch of things and hope that something will stick. That's a poor way to go.

I really loved the way Pakistan batted in 2nd test. Batting is not really great by any stretch of the imagination, but I see many posters saying batting is the weakest link. I don't agree with that. Bowling is so poor that it's not even worth debate for me.

Fixing the bowling unit should be the top priority for management. Before you fix it, you have to admit that it's horrible. Sure, the bowling unit will do much better if you simply improve fielding, but bowling simply looks ordinary here.

What do you all think?

Looks like South Africa have their fair share of entries too in that list.

 

[Buffet]

Looks like South Africa have their fair share of entries too in that list.

Yes, it was poor in India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No pakistani pacer has taken 200 test wickets since the great Waqar Younis. Waqar made his debut in 1989, same test as Tendulkar. He retired in 2003.

As long as pakistan continues to ignore this fact staring them in their faces, and only talk about Talent, well i guess they willl continue to face catastrophic results.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Yes, it was poor in India.

Not just India. I can see Cape Town, PE, Centurion and Johannesburg in that list though.

 

[Buffet]

Not just India. I can see Cape Town, PE, Centurion and Johannesburg in that list though.

I was talking relatively. All Indian venues are closer to the top.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] a good thread for you to read through to see what your pace demons have been achieving in past few series.

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan last 9 Test series in
SENA Countries -

0-3 vs SA (Whitewash)
2-2 vs ENG
0-2 vs NZ (Whitewash)
0-3 vs AUS (Whitewash)
1-1 vs ENG
0-3 vs SA (Whitewash)
0-2 vs AUS (Whitewash)
0-1 vs ENG
0-2 vs NZ (Whitewash)

 

[Hasan123]

No pakistani pacer has taken 200 test wickets since the great Waqar Younis. Waqar made his debut in 1989, same test as Tendulkar. He retired in 2003.

As long as pakistan continues to ignore this fact staring them in their faces, and only talk about Talent, well i guess they willl continue to face catastrophic results.

Other than Shaheen, there isn’t even that many fast bowlers coming through. South Africa and Australia have a better rights to being the land of fast bowling than Pakistan.

 

[nextover666666]

Horrible stats by pakistan
But when you select the wrong players for tje wrong format and do not have proper game plan you get stats like thisb