waqar goraya
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In England during Champions Trophy we might not need 3 spinners in the XI. If it comes to that who would be your first choice and why?
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If it comes to choosing one of the two for the ODI line up, should it be Imad Wasim or Shadab Khan?
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Speedster777
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Both are must. We need young all rounders and they're both aggressive players. Drop Hafeez and Akmals they're useless and if Malik fails in CT(most probably he will fail) he should be dropped for good.
Ahson8
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Shadab should be first choice.
Sports_Psychologist
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Shadab always but but but Imad Waseem has an outstanding batting record recently so both are a must... I'd drop Hafeez as you know ball can swing as minimum as 0.001 cm in England and that'll be a huge huge problem for Hafeez.
Any given day Shadab, even if it was between Yasir & Imad, I would have gone for Yasir. An attacking, wicket taking spinner between over No. 11 to 40 is like gold. On top of that Shadab can bat & he is one of the best fielders in PAK.
Square Drive
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Shadab, although they really have to allow him to showcase his batting skills at international level.
Imad's role can be fulfilled by Hafeez with the bat and any one of Yamin/Shadab down the order with ease.
Imad's role can be fulfilled by Hafeez with the bat and any one of Yamin/Shadab down the order with ease.
Rayyman
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Obviously Imad Wasim is better. It isn't even a comparison.
Lol. Good joke.
Rayyman
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Shady is a nice young talent; But he has only played 3 matches and all v.s. WI.
Citizen4
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Imad had an excellent series in England last year so his case is strong right now, Shadab is untested against the big boys on a flat wicket, he was not as impressive in the Odi series as he was in the t20 series. So for CT this year Imad would be an automatic choice for the management, Mickey and Sarfraz likes him too, that's a big plus. After a couple years, Shadab will be an automatic choice I'm sure in these conditions, he'll develop quickly.
Rayyman
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Agreed man. Unfortunately, most people will disagree because Shady is in PP hype machine atm.
Ellipsism
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Care to elaborate.
I think it's already settled that Shadab is the better wicket taker out of the pair. Imad may hold down an end but the requirement of modern day LO cricket is wickets- if you aren't taking enough wickets in the middle overs it allows the opposition to attack at the end.
Rayyman
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In terms of batting, Shadab hadn't even gotten a chance to bat yet. Imad would be a much better option at 7 especially in a big match. Also he is left handed and has a few fifties + good average + solid strike rate. I see no reason why both can't play. Especially if Yamin comes in. Then we can have all three all-rounders at 6, 7, and 8 with four pacers. Otherwise, I would have Imad over Shadab at 7.
The_Odd_One
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I will play both Imad and Shadab and drop Hafeez.
It will be foolish to drop Imad after he performed so well in his last series in England. Shadab can still play but as a replacement for Hafeez who will be a tailender in England.
It will be foolish to drop Imad after he performed so well in his last series in England. Shadab can still play but as a replacement for Hafeez who will be a tailender in England.
captain crook
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Shadab with eyes closed. Imad has regressed in the recent months. Shadab will give a tough time for all teams in CT. A good leg spinner is worth his weight in gold currently..
ExpressPacer
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You choose both. Having two all rounders is never bad. Please lets not call Malik an all rounder. He plays solely as a batsman (and pretty good at that!).
Pete Rose
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Its a flawed question. These two dont compete for a slot in the team based on current form.
Hasan123
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I'll go with Shadab as he has the ability to pick up wickets
Arsalan Pro
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Both are necessary, Imad is a better batsman and Shadab is a better bowler.
Amirforpresident
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Shadab because he can turn the ball.
Anyone with a bit of cricket knowledge can see shadab has a great potential, unlike Imad. Shadab is a much better fielder, a wicket taking bowler and by a country mile a better batsmen then Imad.
Rayyman
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LOL
Imad's FC average is 20 runs higher. In almost same amount of matches.
Anwar is still a leg-side from what I saw in PSL.
Imad is a bit of a hack, but he does have some technique and has gotten better with the bat recently. Especially in his hitting. Just needs a bit more improvement in balance and will be fine.
fasihulhaq94
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Would go with Imad over Shadab
New Yorker
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Shadab is better in every respect but has not been given a chance to showcase his batting in international LOIs. But Imad did well in England with the bat and that will and should count in his favor for the CT.
waqar goraya
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Don't you think we might need 4 pacers at some stage in English conditions? Don't you think for some tracks 3 spinners would be more than needed?
waqar goraya
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Hafeez is also playing as an all-rounder. So, you don't believe Pakistan should ever go with 4 pacers?
Nil Dhumrojal
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Imad
Rayyman
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We can go with 4 pacers if Yamin comes in at 7 and Imad moves up to 6. That will give us 7 bowlers and a lot of variety. Only will happen if Hafeez moves up to open.
Justcrazy
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Shadab , because he is a wicket taking option.
Wickets in middle order can be crucial.
Wickets in middle order can be crucial.
Pete Rose
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I repeat, on current form, one is an all rounder and the other is a spinner. A genuine spinner can always be played regardless of pitch, but he would compete for a slot vs the fast bowlers .
New Yorker
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There is no basis yet to talk about Shadab's form in international LOIs. Hes come too far down the order. But he was in terrific form in the PSL, and judging by his range of shots, is someone you would rather have than Imad if 30 quick runs have to plundered in the death overs.
Pete Rose
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Yes, it's not a binary choice. He is a genuine leg spinner who should be playing ahead of a front line bowle. Imad will be competing against the detritus that constitutes experience all rounders in pakistan cricket: Malik and Hafeez.
ExpressPacer
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4 pacers is a good option but the likes of pacers we have and the kinds of pitches we play on (esp in Eng for CT), our pacers will be blown away just like they were in that score of 444.
Also, I'm hoping Hafeez isn't there.
Rayyman
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Would actually have Imad for that. Mainly because he is a hack and Shadab is a proper batsman. The latter will end up playing like Rizwan did vs Aus., if you remember. Imad has also worked on his hitting and is a better clean hitter. Shadab will give you scoops, lap shots and late cuts. It all depends on the pitch. Whether the batsman can hit through the line or has to play with a crossed bat.
Shadab is far better spinner, he actually spins the ball, that two both ways, he has one of the best googlie in the world. In last ODI series Sarfi used him really poorly, our main spinner is coming to bowl in 25th over and as fifth bowler, terrible judgment by him. He bowls well with new ball, should be brought in as first change, upfront.
In a year or so, he should(hopefully) replace Yasir as main test spinner. Right now he is first choice spinner in LOIs.
His even batting is better than Immad, but seniors have not let him bat yet, can you believe it??
Out of the three discipline (batting, bowling and fielding), he is already number one in entire team in two of them(best spinner) and best fielder(he fields at point and close in position, takes catches like he has been doing for years, with so much calm and good technique)... How can Pakistan drop him from LOI team??
Against Auses, he is a must, even Indian don't play leggy's with good googlie that well...Look at Rashid Khan and Tahir in India, Shadab is at there level... Immad is no where near that level...
ask_analyse_act
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will play both and drop hafeez if i have to drop one.. with haris coming back will drop Imad as haris can come handy with the ball...
Mamoon
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Both can play for now.
Ellipsism
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I'd like to think our best performing LO bowler would be an automatic pick.
super hitter
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Shadab needs to prove his batting skills to take imad's place, unfortunately you can't bowl the googly everywhere.
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I agree Imad is more of a hack. Unfortunately he usually needs to settle in before he starts hacking, which means that late burst comes too late if he is at the crease. There is literally no scenario that I could envision in which I would not rather have Shadab come in ahead of him.
Bilal7
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I would play Imad for now but if he can't seem to keep the runs down, Shadab can come in. Shadab is a secret weapon because not many have seen him so he should be brought in for the semi-finals, which will be against a team that doesn't play spin very well.
Only one of them should in England, however. We have two spinners in Hafeez and Malik already and playing two more would be absolutely terrible, considering that we're in a group with India and Sri Lanka. Imad or Shadab should bat at #7 and below them we need four pacers. Hafeez and Malik can fill in with a few overs, if needed.
Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Riaz, Imad/Shadab and Hafeez & Malik. Perfectly balanced attack for a tournament in England.
Only one of them should in England, however. We have two spinners in Hafeez and Malik already and playing two more would be absolutely terrible, considering that we're in a group with India and Sri Lanka. Imad or Shadab should bat at #7 and below them we need four pacers. Hafeez and Malik can fill in with a few overs, if needed.
Amir, Junaid, Hassan, Riaz, Imad/Shadab and Hafeez & Malik. Perfectly balanced attack for a tournament in England.
Mamoon
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Sure.
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Hard to think of anything more innocuous these days than Maliks offspin. Fortunately he makes the cut as a batsman. But if you want a genuine wicket taking spin option than Shadab is the best there is.
New Yorker
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No more Junaid, no more Wahab, please. Hasan Amir and Sohail works a treat for me.
Bilal7
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As he is the 7th bowling option, that isn't a problem. I would save Shadab for when we really need him and we don't really need him against Sri Lanka and India that are unlikely to be troubled by a spinner on English pitches. For now, let's keep Imad as the frontline spinner and ask him to focus on his economy while the four pace bowlers attack. An unknown leggie, with a very good doosra would be hell for England and Australia during the semi-finals and that is where Shadab comes in.
Do you promise to create a thread if Junaid averages below 30 in the CT?
Mamoon
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I don't care about averages, only performance. If he performs well and still has a high average, I will appreciate it. Wahab statistically was terrible in the last CT, but anyone who watched the tournament knew that he bowled quite well. If he bowls well, I will acknowledge it. However, if he fails (which he will), will you finally admit that he is not international standard anymore and needs to be shown the door?
Bilal7
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As always, you are simply unwilling to put a price on your words and take up a challenge. Who decides whether Junaid bowled well or not? You or me? You probably don't even think he bowled well in his comeback series in Australia, yet anyone who is unbiased knows that he did quite well.
If Junaid averages in the 40s or God forbid, even higher, I will certainly want him dropped.
Mamoon
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Sorry but I am not used to hiding behind stats like you. According to you, Amla didn't fail in the 2011 World Cup because his average was 40+, even though that was because most of his runs came against Ireland and Bangladesh. It is possible for Junaid to have poor stats in spite of bowling well, and it is also possible for him to have decent stats without bowling well. That is why a statistical cut-off point is meaningless.
You don't need stats to know who has bowled well or who hasn't. If you have to use stats to prove that someone played well, then he really didn't. Good performance shows, and you don't need numbers. They are only important when you are reflecting on past performances of the players that you have not seen play. Whether Junaid bowls well or not, we will come to know in the Champions Trophy and but his average and strike rate etc. etc. will not matter, which nonetheless should be quite poor as well. The guy is embarrassing himself beyond measure in the Pakistan Cup - both performance and stats-wise.
SarfiBabarHaris
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Both can/should play. Both can win matches with the bat late down the order which we lacked.
But if only 1 can play then obviously Shadab who is a wicket taker.
But if only 1 can play then obviously Shadab who is a wicket taker.
Junaid turned it on vs India in 2012/13 and bowled the best spell I'd seen in ages while big match player Wahab bowled a brilliant spell vs Watson in the last major ODI event. From a neutral point of view, both are must for team Pakistan!
Bilal7
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Like I said, when you and I have vastly different views on Junaid, Amla, etc, we will never come to an agreement on when they played well and when they did not. That is why you needs stats to show you the truth of the matter because in the words of Philander "stats don't lie". You can of course, be intelligent about it and delve deeper into these stats and figure out what really happened but stats are definitely necessary to make an unbiased judgement in cricket.
I hope Pakistan's four pronged pace attack does well because that is the only way we are going deep in this tournament. The batting is extremely thin and the spinners won't pose much difficulty to India.
Mamoon
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Sure, but given how he has bowled, his stats are not going to be good enough either. However, I expect you to continue to your excuses that he hasn't found his rhythm yet etc. etc. However, if you accept that he is toast, then good on you.
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sorry, you lost me at watson.
afridi also once hit the worlds fastest ODI century. time for a recall you think?
Brilliance
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Shadab has the higher ceiling. So obviously Shadab for me.
Good point. Not to mention he hit 2 brilliant 6s vs Ashwin/India in the Asia Cup, if only he was not in retirement. My replacement for him would be Bilawal Bhatti, a very underrated, hardhitting allrounder.
pakistanigoneaussie
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Imad's bowling remains an issue, unless he adds some variation, its gonna be hard to justify his place despite his batting.
the most troubling thing is that his economy is also going up
the most troubling thing is that his economy is also going up
pakistanigoneaussie
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sadly he is incredibly stupid, always loses his length, can't is consistent. He should have been what Hasan Ali is now
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