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"If Lord Rama was here, he wouldn't have pulled this move"

KingKhanWC

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A poster wrote



"but if Lord Rama was here, he wouldn't have pulled this move.

Deep down we all know it. "


Growing up in the UK Ive always found Hindus to be very open to others, causing little harm to others.

But since the BJP regained power it's made me think otherwise. Most of them are right wingers full of hatred and most Hindus seem to be supporting them.

Is the poster correct to say this move by India is against the teachings of their faith and 'Lord Rama' would never have done this move against Kashmiris?

Or is he wrong and Hinduism is not peaceful at all? We know the caste system is where Hindus hate on their own.

As a Muslim im not allowed to openly abuse any other religion but we can discuss or critise it in a civilsed way.

I would request all Hindu posters to give their input on the questions posed.
 
Hinduism is not a pacifist religion at all. Hindus are encouraged to fight to establish the rule of the Supreme God Almighty Bhagwan and bring peace to the world.
 
Interesting thread.

Would like to increase my knowledge about Hinduism.
 
Why would some of the Hindu Gods have multiple arms? If it isn't to carry multiple weapons, what could it possibly be?
 
Hinduism is not a pacifist religion at all. Hindus are encouraged to fight to establish the rule of the Supreme God Almighty Bhagwan and bring peace to the world.

Firstly are you a Hindu? (for context of your posts).

So according to you what India is doing in Kashmir is perfectly in line with Hinduism? If 'Lord' Rama was here , he would be cheering on Modi and the BJP?
 
Why would some of the Hindu Gods have multiple arms? If it isn't to carry multiple weapons, what could it possibly be?

Not sure but hopefully a Hindu poster can comment.

Do you mean this? Doesnt look to peaceful but there may be some sort of context.

GodHind.jpg
 
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=140457]xbronze[/MENTION]

Your thoughts please.
 
Since BJP came into power even reasonable Indians have become war mongering fanatics.
 
Firstly are you a Hindu? (for context of your posts).

So according to you what India is doing in Kashmir is perfectly in line with Hinduism? If 'Lord' Rama was here , he would be cheering on Modi and the BJP?

I don't have to be a communist to speak about communism, but yes, I am a Hindu first before anything else.

Lord Rama was a warrior who would go to war to defeat Evil. Don't know what He would have done today, He would always go to help those who prayed to Him and sought his help but Bhagwan Ji knows best.
 
I don't have to be a communist to speak about communism, but yes, I am a Hindu first before anything else.

Lord Rama was a warrior who would go to war to defeat Evil. Don't know what He would have done today, He would always go to help those who prayed to Him and sought his help but Bhagwan Ji knows best.


He was a warrior for good which means he would help the oppressed. Thanks
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] Please comment?

I cant believe the BJP, RSS , Modi and the motley crew are following Hinduism but a perverse version which is not in line with traditional teachings but if any Hindu believe they are, I would love to read in detail.
 
Since BJP came into power even reasonable Indians have become war mongering fanatics.

Great point bro. The masses can often be radicalised by extremists in power.

Do you know of any famous Hindu scholar(english) who has views on the BJP/RSS etc?
 
I went to a mandir last month.

And what they told was about the Sanatan Dharma and the positive and negative karma.

But I don’t know if this is relevant to this thread..
 
Not sure but hopefully a Hindu poster can comment.

Do you mean this? Doesnt look to peaceful but there may be some sort of context.

View attachment 93937

I am no expert but from what I have read different hindu deities basically represent different facets of God. For instance they have three distinct deities for Creator, Preserver and Destroyer. Similarly, the one pictures above Kali, I believe is the Goddess of vengeance and hence all the blood and gore.

For some Muslims, it’s hard to grasp the concept of Hinduism because as a religion it’s very different from Islam. Whereas we consider Islam is a complete way of life and seem to derive advice on way of doing pretty much everything from it, Hinduism is much more ancient and open to personal interpretation and flexible so there can’t be a hard and fast rule that it’s peaceful or vengeful. It can be peaceful or vengeful based on who is practicing it much like all other religions.

Muslims go around killing in the name of religion and we cry that’s not Islam so I would suggest you hold Hinduism by the same standard. Just because some Gau Rakhshaks are killing Muslims for eating cow, doesn’t make them all terrorists or mean they pray to God. In fact nowhere in their religious literature t says you can’t eat cow.. ancient hindus used to eat cow all the time. Veganism is a much recent development in Hinduism given its ancient origins.
 
I went to a mandir last month.

And what they told was about the Sanatan Dharma and the positive and negative karma.

But I don’t know if this is relevant to this thread..

Please do expand? Very relevant to this thread. In your opinion what the BJP have been saying and acting out in policies is postive or negative?
 
I am no expert but from what I have read different hindu deities basically represent different facets of God. For instance they have three distinct deities for Creator, Preserver and Destroyer. Similarly, the one pictures above Kali, I believe is the Goddess of vengeance and hence all the blood and gore.

For some Muslims, it’s hard to grasp the concept of Hinduism because as a religion it’s very different from Islam. Whereas we consider Islam is a complete way of life and seem to derive advice on way of doing pretty much everything from it, Hinduism is much more ancient and open to personal interpretation and flexible so there can’t be a hard and fast rule that it’s peaceful or vengeful. It can be peaceful or vengeful based on who is practicing it much like all other religions.

Muslims go around killing in the name of religion and we cry that’s not Islam so I would suggest you hold Hinduism by the same standard. Just because some Gau Rakhshaks are killing Muslims for eating cow, doesn’t make them all terrorists or mean they pray to God. In fact nowhere in their religious literature t says you can’t eat cow.. ancient hindus used to eat cow all the time. Veganism is a much recent development in Hinduism given its ancient origins.

The difference is we dennounce any Muslims who abuse the religion and justify murder. Note this doesn't include self defence under occupation. The BJP is run as a Hindu nationalist party and has been voted in by millions of Hindus. They must feel the BJP are representing Hindus well?
 
He was a warrior for good which means he would help the oppressed. Thanks
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] Please comment?

I cant believe the BJP, RSS , Modi and the motley crew are following Hinduism but a perverse version which is not in line with traditional teachings but if any Hindu believe they are, I would love to read in detail.

He would help oppressed hindus or sure. Not sure if He would help non hindus, unless they prayed to Him, in which case they come under the fold of Hinduism, the Right Path.

BJP is not following true Hinduism. They haven't even built the Ram Temple and are doing appeasement politics.
 
The difference is we dennounce any Muslims who abuse the religion and justify murder. Note this doesn't include self defence under occupation. The BJP is run as a Hindu nationalist party and has been voted in by millions of Hindus. They must feel the BJP are representing Hindus well?
That’s a different debate. Appearances would suggest so.. yes. Then again the govt mouthpiece right now belongs to such people but it doesn’t mean there aren’t hindus who don’t oppose the BJP extremism.

I happen to know quite a few in personal life who hate them as much you and I do.
 
He would help oppressed hindus or sure. Not sure if He would help non hindus, unless they prayed to Him, in which case they come under the fold of Hinduism, the Right Path.

BJP is not following true Hinduism. They haven't even built the Ram Temple and are doing appeasement politics.

He will only help Hindus? If he witnessed a non-Hindu in danger he would ignore it? So this means he wouldnt have an issue with the BJP and Indian actions in Kashmir. I find it hard to believe atm but thanks.

That’s a different debate. Appearances would suggest so.. yes. Then again the govt mouthpiece right now belongs to such people but it doesn’t mean there aren’t hindus who don’t oppose the BJP extremism.

I happen to know quite a few in personal life who hate them as much you and I do.

Ive only spoken to one and tbh he was a Modi fan. Any videos of Hindu scholars dennoucing BJP or Modi?
 
He would help oppressed hindus or sure. Not sure if He would help non hindus, unless they prayed to Him, in which case they come under the fold of Hinduism, the Right Path.

BJP is not following true Hinduism. They haven't even built the Ram Temple and are doing appeasement politics.

Wb , missed these kinda posts from you lol.
 
Please do expand? Very relevant to this thread. In your opinion what the BJP have been saying and acting out in policies is postive or negative?
It is negative based upon what the pandit told us.

Positive karma will lead to future beneficial effect and this can be achieved by doing good deeds.

Negative karma will lead to future harmful effect and this can be caused by doing a bad deed.

Also as we know there is a concept of reincarnation in Hinduism.

The idea about it is the way you think or your ideology/thought process carries on living whenever you die.

This also has to do with your negative and positive karma, like Islam, Hinduism has the human as the highest form of life (what we Muslims say as “Ashraf ul Makhlookat”)

You have done good deeds in your whole life you will have better circumstances in your next life.

You have done bad deeds in your whole life you can degrade from the highest form of life to an animal or any other sort of life which isn’t of a human.

Atleast that is what the Pandit told my group.
 
He will only help Hindus? If he witnessed a non-Hindu in danger he would ignore it? So this means he wouldnt have an issue with the BJP and Indian actions in Kashmir. I find it hard to believe atm but thanks.



Ive only spoken to one and tbh he was a Modi fan. Any videos of Hindu scholars dennoucing BJP or Modi?

Are you asking me to provide you with evidence? Or are you implying that hindu scholars are all unilaterally supporting BJP actions? In either cases, I hope you are joking. That’s like a non Muslim asking us if we can find a fatwa sayin Jihad is wrong. It’s not all black and white. My point is that let’s not blame a faith for the dirty politics we are seeing. If we do, what the difference between us and Islamophobes we cry about. Let us limit our debates to people and actions of people. None of us are religious scholars here and I won’t presume to judge any religion or faith in the world with my limited knowledge of them.
 
Since BJP came into power even reasonable Indians have become war mongering fanatics.

They're showing their true colors. They were never peaceful people to begin with.

There was a post before and after tweets when that Indian pilot got captured. Oppressing and murdering unarmed Kashmiris is very easy but trying to start war is something completely different. Many people realized that.
 
Why would some of the Hindu Gods have multiple arms? If it isn't to carry multiple weapons, what could it possibly be?

Being victorious in the fight against evil is a defining characteristic of Hindu Gods.

[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=140457]xbronze[/MENTION]

Your thoughts please.

I can't say I am a Ramayana expert. It is only one of many Hindu religious texts.

I would say that his followers expect Lord Rama to do that which is just.

Is scrapping 370 just? Here are some main views.

1) 370 was an agreement based on which Kashmir joined India, and scrapping it is therefore unjust. Maybe the Supreme Court will have something to say on this.

2) The people of Kashmir want to secede, and keeping them in India by force is unjust.

3) If a group of Indians could leave because they did not want to be part of India, then the country would not last long. As long as all Indians have equal rights, it is just.

Scrapping 370 does not create a situation where Kashmiris have fewer rights than other Indians. Actually, I would say that 370 in a way gave a Kashmiri one less right that other Indians. As a Bengali, I can sell my property to anyone I please. If I was a Kashmiri I would not be able to, so I would end up getting a lower price for my property. So with 370, a Kashmiri actually had one fewer right than a Bengali.

Obviously I think #3 above is most important, but others may go with #1 and #2. As for Lord Rama? Heaven knows!
 
He will only help Hindus? If he witnessed a non-Hindu in danger he would ignore it? So this means he wouldnt have an issue with the BJP and Indian actions in Kashmir. I find it hard to believe atm but thanks.

Almighty Bhagwan ji (whose one avatar is Lord Ram) does not micro manage and interfere in the world. When He puts you in the path of suffering, He has a plan for you and it is ultimately for the greater good for which you will be rewarded ultimately.
 
Being victorious in the fight against evil is a defining characteristic of Hindu Gods.



I can't say I am a Ramayana expert. It is only one of many Hindu religious texts.

I would say that his followers expect Lord Rama to do that which is just.

Is scrapping 370 just? Here are some main views.

1) 370 was an agreement based on which Kashmir joined India, and scrapping it is therefore unjust. Maybe the Supreme Court will have something to say on this.

2) The people of Kashmir want to secede, and keeping them in India by force is unjust.

3) If a group of Indians could leave because they did not want to be part of India, then the country would not last long. As long as all Indians have equal rights, it is just.

Scrapping 370 does not create a situation where Kashmiris have fewer rights than other Indians. Actually, I would say that 370 in a way gave a Kashmiri one less right that other Indians. As a Bengali, I can sell my property to anyone I please. If I was a Kashmiri I would not be able to, so I would end up getting a lower price for my property. So with 370, a Kashmiri actually had one fewer right than a Bengali.

Obviously I think #3 above is most important, but others may go with #1 and #2. As for Lord Rama? Heaven knows!

Very sensible some of the points. Hope the world sees it as the injustice that it truly is.
 
Very sensible some of the points. Hope the world sees it as the injustice that it truly is.

Just because I have a certain viewpoint (which is not surprising given my background/ethnicity etc.) doesn't mean I cannot understand the reasons behind the thinking of others :)

The world may see it as an injustice but will it care? Bush started Iraq War based on lies. Obama stealthily started the Ukraine, Syrian and Libyan Wars. People like them don't care about justice.

People need to figure out how to have a good productive life that doesn't oppress anyone else. Then we can all live happily ever after.
 
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He would help oppressed hindus or sure. Not sure if He would help non hindus, unless they prayed to Him, in which case they come under the fold of Hinduism, the Right Path.

BJP is not following true Hinduism. They haven't even built the Ram Temple and are doing appeasement politics.

Lol!!! End the thread now!
 
Buddy your interest in Hinduism probably large religion in your land as well is similar to my interest in Azerbaijaan.

Plus , I do see posts before they get deleted :) I saw what you posted.

Also there is a Pakistani Hindu poster on PP not active maybe.

Its around 3 am in Pakistan so I believe pakistani hindu poster will be sleeping

& I do think you are the best person to answer so can you plz tell me what kind of necklace she worn round the he neck? that necklace of human faces?
 
Are you asking me to provide you with evidence? Or are you implying that hindu scholars are all unilaterally supporting BJP actions? In either cases, I hope you are joking. That’s like a non Muslim asking us if we can find a fatwa sayin Jihad is wrong. It’s not all black and white. My point is that let’s not blame a faith for the dirty politics we are seeing. If we do, what the difference between us and Islamophobes we cry about. Let us limit our debates to people and actions of people. None of us are religious scholars here and I won’t presume to judge any religion or faith in the world with my limited knowledge of them.

No I was just asking if you are aware of any opinions of Hindu scholars in relation to the ideology of the BJP/RSS? I would guess they disagree as the BJP/RSS are full of hatred and I dont believe Hinduism
 
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Just because I have a certain viewpoint (which is not surprising given my background/ethnicity etc.) doesn't mean I cannot understand the reasons behind the thinking of others :)

The world may see it as an injustice but will it care? Bush started Iraq War based on lies. Obama stealthily started the Ukraine, Syrian and Libyan Wars. People like them don't care about justice.

People need to figure out how to have a good productive life that doesn't oppress anyone else. Then we can all live happily ever after.

What people fail to realize is that in world politics, the days of nations and leaders taking action based on ethical or moral grounds are long gone. Now it’s all about national interests. Unfortunately, Pakistan is not as strong as India which has economic ties and interests with so many countries. Pakistan comparatively have pretty much nothing. So regardless of the morality and ethics of it all, the whole world will stay quiet and nobody will say anything.

If Kashmir had oil or some other interest for western world, they would have attacked a long time ago and liberated it (as they call it) with an installed puppet government. But since Kashmir doesn’t, they are condemned to this dispute forever I am afraid.
 
No I was just asking if you are aware of any opinions of Hindu scholars in relation to the ideology of the BJP/RSS? I would guess they disagree as the BJP/RSS are full of hatred and I dont believe Hinduism is.



Its a fair guess but we cannot be firm on this. Is there any text from the holy scriptures of Hinduism related to Ram which suggests he was monothestic?

I believe this is another debatable topic whether Hinduism is a polytheistic or monotheistic faith. There are some hindus who claimed it is monotheistic and that the different deities are all different facets of one God. I think Ram originally may have preached it before the teachings got diluted or changed over such a long period of time. It is not entirely implausible considering Christianity is fairly recent and yet the teachings of Isa AS were altered and he was turned into son of god. You know what I mean?
 
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I believe this is another debatable topic whether Hinduism is a polytheistic or monotheistic faith. There are some hindus who claimed it is monotheistic and that the different deities are all different facets of one God. I think Ram originally may have preached it before the teachings got diluted or changed over such a long period of time. It is not entirely implausible considering Christianity is fairly recent and yet the teachings of Isa AS were altered and he was turned into son of god. You know what I mean?
The mandir where I went to was from a particular sect and it said that Hinduism is actually monotheistic and the “gods” such as “Laxmi”, “Brahma” and “Saraswati” are, as what you already have written, are different facets of one God.
 
The mandir where I went to was from a particular sect and it said that Hinduism is actually monotheistic and the “gods” such as “Laxmi”, “Brahma” and “Saraswati” are, as what you already have written, are different facets of one God.
Almost every hindu I have discussed this subject has said the very same. It’s only some let’s say not so educated ones who might take the different deities literally rather than figuratively, I would think.
 
I believe this is another debatable topic whether Hinduism is a polytheistic or monotheistic faith. There are some hindus who claimed it is monotheistic and that the different deities are all different facets of one God. I think Ram originally may have preached it before the teachings got diluted or changed over such a long period of time. It is not entirely implausible considering Christianity is fairly recent and yet the teachings of Isa AS were altered and he was turned into son of god. You know what I mean?

The mandir where I went to was from a particular sect and it said that Hinduism is actually monotheistic and the “gods” such as “Laxmi”, “Brahma” and “Saraswati” are, as what you already have written, are different facets of one God.

I understand your points and it does makes sense but we cant say for sure because unlike in Islam(i may be wrong) there is no scritpure which has been maintained from its' original form. This is also the argument but we also know there have been many imposters/false prophets, not that Im suggesting he was.

The thread is really about what does Hinduism or Hindu scholars say about the RSS/BJP, so far no closer in finding out.
 
Dr Ram Puniyani makes some really good points. I cant understand all of his Hindi but his points are clear enough.

Although he doesn't seem to be a Hindu scholar.
 
Great point bro. The masses can often be radicalised by extremists in power.

Do you know of any famous Hindu scholar(english) who has views on the BJP/RSS etc?

Sadly I don't but I know a few Indians who were tame but absolutely worship Modi. Its pretty mind boggling. Though I have to say most of them are North Indians. One of my very good friends is Tamil, he despises Modi and BJP probably more than us. Sorry if I got your thread derailed btw :))
 
Modi is influential in the north, west and central. He is not that popular in the south or bengal. But needless to say the majority of the country is with him and BJP for whatever reasons.
 
If Prophet Ram (PBUH) was alive, he would tell you to stop practicing Polytheism. Bhagvad Gita promotes Monotheism practices and He (PBUH) would redirect his followers back to worship real GOD aka A CREATOR- not himself.

As for oppression, that goes without saying why Prophet Ram (PBUH) would have opposed today India.
 
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The intentions of the OP are quite clear and validated by his responses to some of the replies. But I will indulge him by posting here anyway :rabada2

Am not a fan of Rama like many in the South, NE and Bengal. Am more interested in the picture of Kali posted and some of the curiosity in other posters regarding it. Not an expert but my basic understanding is, Kali is one form of the wife of Shiva. Shiva is like the big don of everyone and everyone's pretty much wary of messing with him. Shiva has another (higher) form Mahakala and his wife there is Mahakali who is a higher form of Kali. They basically represent ka.ala or Time and are a sort of reminder of the destructive force of Time which doesn't give two hoots about who you are. It will ultimately destroy and take you, whoever you may be.

Anyway this pic of Kali is about a story where she had to kill some crazy demon but that guy had been granted a certain power so that every time his blood hit the ground, a new demon sprang from it. So Kali took it upon herself to slay him and drank his blood to prevent it falling on the ground. This made her bloodythirsty literally and she went nuts dancing all through the universe after she'd killed him. After a while, her euphoria started threatening existence itself and everyone ran to Shiva begging him to make her stop. He tried a number of things and finally came up with the solution of lying at her feet. After she'd stomped on him for a while she came out of her reverie and calmed down. The thing to take away from this I guess is - when a woman has lost it, man should just quietly submit to her because he is no match to her and she will calm down only on her own accord.

The roots of Hinduism are filled with these kind of tales which are actually allegorical and not really meant to be taken literally and worshiped.
 
Shri ram chandra used treachery to kill baali.
For reference-baali was a king who had a magical ability of draining 50% power of any enemy he fought.
So the only way to defeat him was treachery and even the great maryada purshottam Shri Ram had no other option.
 
He was a warrior for good which means he would help the oppressed. Thanks
@<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=143530" target="_blank">Swashbuckler</a> Please comment?

I cant believe the BJP, RSS , Modi and the motley crew are following Hinduism but a perverse version which is not in line with traditional teachings but if any Hindu believe they are, I would love to read in detail.

Tamil Hindu here, Lord Ram isn't popular in my state. In fact many Dravidians consider Ramayan as an act of aggression by outsiders against their lands/people. What I mean to say is that Hinduism can't be defined on the basis of one avatar or one epic, each place has its own version, interpretation and inspiration, even deities. Hinduism is an umbrella term that creates a broad framework for a multitude of faiths and beliefs to co-exist. A forest dweller or some isolated tribesman may have his/her own distinct animistic faith and that too is brought under the fold of Hinduism because of the flexibility Hinduism offers. There is no central book or holy place, or defined set of rules like in Islam or Judaism.

Now what BJP/RSS/VHP/BD practice is entirely different. They are followers of Hindutva (founded in early 20th century) which is a toxic mix of politics and religion with fascism as an underlying feature. The ideologues of Hindutva were inspired by the fascist movements of Europe. Example Golwalkar, one of the leading figures of RSS and a hero for Hindutva forces cited Mussolini as his inspiration. RSS is the brain and BJP is the political front. They want cultural homogenization be it with respect to language or religion (within Hinduism as well), with hegemony of upper castes. PPers mostly see only the religious angle but the Sangh also has waged a soft war against non-Hindi language speakers and other interpretations of Hinduism. For instance the cultural aggression in Bengal where they want to supplant the pre-eminent Shakti (Durga, Kali) and introduce Ram, it reached a tipping point during the election campaign and is still seen as cultural aggression by many there. Hindutva is not an extreme version of Hinduism, IMO it is an enemy of Hinduism and a direct threat to the religion which has always been about accommodating various strands of the umbrella in a non-confrontational way. Religio-cultural homogeneity isn't what Hinduism is about, Hinduism is open to considering Buddha as an avatar and co-opting Sufi saints, Hinduism places no bar on praying to Jesus/Mary for it sees divine in holy figures everywhere.

How BJP has captured political power can be left for another thread but it is a confluence of many circumstances each of which will have to be analyzed in detail. BJP's Hindutva hasn't touched Kerala or Tamil Nadu, they have never won a seat here. It won't be right to generalize Hindus as some PPers mistakenly do, Tamil Nadu has 88% Hindu majority, 75 million population in the state. Andhra is 90% Hindu and again BJP has made no inroads, the present CM is a Christian who swept the polls. There are historical reasons and regional politics which have stopped Hindutva in these states, so one can't take BJP as an example and get insights about the Hindu mind. Many North/West/Central Indian Hindus may be enamored by BJP but this may be a temporary phase, we don't know the future. I guess almost all countries have gone through such phases in their history only to recover, pendulum swings one way or the other and of late not just in India but RW fascist forces have gained significant ground even in Europe and USA.

Coming to your point about Kashmir, the Tamil and Malayali Hindus will have a different take than someone in Haryana or Uttar Pradesh, varies from state to state. What I have observed here, most aren't happy with the development, there have been protests and also a sense of fear about what is next to come (along with Kashmir, Tamil Nadu is seen as a final frontier by the Sangh). So while Tamil Hindus aren't ardent followers of Ram like in some other states (your OP) most do not subscribe to this misadventure by the national government. Our popular leaders have made their points over this and most of us agree with them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I urge the President of India to not precipitate the situation and not take any further steps in this regard until a democratically elected Government is formed there. <br><br>The DMK stands with its Kashmiri brothers and sisters and will oppose any assault on federal structure.</p>— M.K.Stalin (@mkstalin) <a href="https://twitter.com/mkstalin/status/1158352492855353344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 5, 2019</a></blockquote>
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there are two types of hindus. the ones in india and the ones abroad.
the ones abroad are chill. the ones in india are right wing extremists.

the difference?
its the difference in environment. abroad, they are a minority. so they act peace loving and meek.
apparantly abroad, people of indian and pakitani origin get together fine.

the indians at home are a different bunch. i presume. A different enviroment ,being in a majority, and brainwashed into hating islam , pakistan, and kashmiris, they became right wingers over time, and the effects are seen today with the BJP in power.
 
Religio-cultural homogeneity isn't what Hinduism is about, Hinduism is open to considering Buddha as an avatar and co-opting Sufi saints, Hinduism places no bar on praying to Jesus/Mary for it sees divine in holy figures everywhere.

Very nicely put post. In regard to this specific bit, I was a bit surprised years ago while reading Paramahansa Yogananda where he refers to Jesus as a great Himalayan master. I know of people within my family who regularly used to visit a famous church here in Bengaluru while still considering themselves Hindu.

Shirdi Sai Baba was also Muslim by birth as far as I know and what I read around his shrine. There are some clowns though who claim he was a Brahmin adopted by Muslims. Though he himself was uninterested in going into his parentage.
 
there are two types of hindus. the ones in india and the ones abroad.
the ones abroad are chill. the ones in india are right wing extremists.
:)) it's actually the opposite in daily practice. Generally speaking. I wouldn't be surprised if the same applied to Pakistan.
 
Tamil Hindu here, Lord Ram isn't popular in my state. In fact many Dravidians consider Ramayan as an act of aggression by outsiders against their lands/people. What I mean to say is that Hinduism can't be defined on the basis of one avatar or one epic, each place has its own version, interpretation and inspiration, even deities. Hinduism is an umbrella term that creates a broad framework for a multitude of faiths and beliefs to co-exist. A forest dweller or some isolated tribesman may have his/her own distinct animistic faith and that too is brought under the fold of Hinduism because of the flexibility Hinduism offers. There is no central book or holy place, or defined set of rules like in Islam or Judaism.

Now what BJP/RSS/VHP/BD practice is entirely different. They are followers of Hindutva (founded in early 20th century) which is a toxic mix of politics and religion with fascism as an underlying feature. The ideologues of Hindutva were inspired by the fascist movements of Europe. Example Golwalkar, one of the leading figures of RSS and a hero for Hindutva forces cited Mussolini as his inspiration. RSS is the brain and BJP is the political front. They want cultural homogenization be it with respect to language or religion (within Hinduism as well), with hegemony of upper castes. PPers mostly see only the religious angle but the Sangh also has waged a soft war against non-Hindi language speakers and other interpretations of Hinduism. For instance the cultural aggression in Bengal where they want to supplant the pre-eminent Shakti (Durga, Kali) and introduce Ram, it reached a tipping point during the election campaign and is still seen as cultural aggression by many there. Hindutva is not an extreme version of Hinduism, IMO it is an enemy of Hinduism and a direct threat to the religion which has always been about accommodating various strands of the umbrella in a non-confrontational way. Religio-cultural homogeneity isn't what Hinduism is about, Hinduism is open to considering Buddha as an avatar and co-opting Sufi saints, Hinduism places no bar on praying to Jesus/Mary for it sees divine in holy figures everywhere.

How BJP has captured political power can be left for another thread but it is a confluence of many circumstances each of which will have to be analyzed in detail. BJP's Hindutva hasn't touched Kerala or Tamil Nadu, they have never won a seat here. It won't be right to generalize Hindus as some PPers mistakenly do, Tamil Nadu has 88% Hindu majority, 75 million population in the state. Andhra is 90% Hindu and again BJP has made no inroads, the present CM is a Christian who swept the polls. There are historical reasons and regional politics which have stopped Hindutva in these states, so one can't take BJP as an example and get insights about the Hindu mind. Many North/West/Central Indian Hindus may be enamored by BJP but this may be a temporary phase, we don't know the future. I guess almost all countries have gone through such phases in their history only to recover, pendulum swings one way or the other and of late not just in India but RW fascist forces have gained significant ground even in Europe and USA.

Coming to your point about Kashmir, the Tamil and Malayali Hindus will have a different take than someone in Haryana or Uttar Pradesh, varies from state to state. What I have observed here, most aren't happy with the development, there have been protests and also a sense of fear about what is next to come (along with Kashmir, Tamil Nadu is seen as a final frontier by the Sangh). So while Tamil Hindus aren't ardent followers of Ram like in some other states (your OP) most do not subscribe to this misadventure by the national government. Our popular leaders have made their points over this and most of us agree with them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I urge the President of India to not precipitate the situation and not take any further steps in this regard until a democratically elected Government is formed there. <br><br>The DMK stands with its Kashmiri brothers and sisters and will oppose any assault on federal structure.</p>— M.K.Stalin (@mkstalin) <a href="https://twitter.com/mkstalin/status/1158352492855353344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 5, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The poster the Op is referring to is SIF who is tamizhan, understood that ‘Tamizhans’ might dislike Ramayan but Seem to be huge on Anjaneya , second as to why DMK is speaking against it maybe you need to check on business relationships between DMK and the corrupt Kashmiri leaders who have been taking off money from centre.

Now on the TN thing, BJP is trash party but the situation isn’t even close between TN and Kashmir.
There are huge corporates in TN , IT etc which govn wouldn’t dare do anything.

You speak about a section of Tamizhans, dont say most, coz I have friends as well and most have supported abolishing the article (means of it might be wrong) and separation of Ladakh, infact many didn’t even know this article existed as the assumed Indians could open business up there.

Tamizhans can have variety of opinions, and thats why I have maintained just like BJP drives on hate DMK is driven on similar agenda, for years they spew hatred on Hinduism ,breaking Idols, then hating on language etc etc, dont say you don’t follow DMk politics, coz you cared to youtube and search twitter for these leaders, and Vaiko doesn’t even stand for elections anymore.
 
The poster the Op is referring to is SIF who is tamizhan, understood that ‘Tamizhans’ might dislike Ramayan but Seem to be huge on Anjaneya , second as to why DMK is speaking against it maybe you need to check on business relationships between DMK and the corrupt Kashmiri leaders who have been taking off money from centre.

I don't know about business relationships between them. Anyway the DMK is speaking about Kashmiris, normal Kashmiri citizens.

Now on the TN thing, BJP is trash party but the situation isn’t even close between TN and Kashmir.
There are huge corporates in TN , IT etc which govn wouldn’t dare do anything.

Missing the context. I said TN is a final frontier for BJP, am I wrong?

You speak about a section of Tamizhans, dont say most, coz I have friends as well and most have supported abolishing the article (means of it might be wrong) and separation of Ladakh, infact many didn’t even know this article existed as the assumed Indians could open business up there.

Maybe because we have different sets of friends circle. Also look at the social media reaction by our state people.

Tamizhans can have variety of opinions, and thats why I have maintained just like BJP drives on hate DMK is driven on similar agenda, for years they spew hatred on Hinduism ,breaking Idols, then hating on language etc etc, dont say you don’t follow DMk politics, coz you cared to youtube and search twitter for these leaders, and Vaiko doesn’t even stand for elections anymore.

I don't care about the corrupt and dynastic DMK, I followed the house proceedings and saw those speeches. I was a supporter of AIADMK all along until Amma's death, you can check my past posts. Not anymore because they are acting like subservient stooges of New Delhi.
 
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I don't know about business relationships between them. Anyway the DMK is speaking about Kashmiris, normal Kashmiri citizens.



Missing the context. I said TN is a final frontier for BJP, am I wrong?



Maybe because we have different sets of friends circle. Also look at the social media reaction by our state people.



I don't care about the corrupt and dynastic DMK, I followed the house proceedings and saw those speeches. I was a supporter of AIADMK all along until Amma's death, you can check my past posts. Not anymore because they are acting like subservient stooges of New Delhi.

Fair points.
 
Shri ram chandra used treachery to kill baali.
For reference-baali was a king who had a magical ability of draining 50% power of any enemy he fought.
So the only way to defeat him was treachery and even the great maryada purshottam Shri Ram had no other option.

Bali had a VARDHAN granted by Brahma.

Lord Rama could come in front and destroy him.

But that would undermine the authority of Brahma, which he didn't wish to do.

Vaali after expelling Sugreeva, COVETED his wife forcefully.

So he hid behind tree to kill Vaali (and he had the right to kill as a representative from King Bharata who was the main ruler of all those lands).

You should read the passages where Vaaali in his dying stages cries out to Rama for his injustice and asks him how is this fair and mocks him.

Lord Rama explains everything and Vaali accepts his folly and dies giving Sugreeva his kingdom and asking him to take care of his son Angad.

I wasn't planning on posting on PP today cos I am a bit too busy but thought I would clarify this bit. :)

There was no treachery involved.

----
Kinda too busy today so didn't want to post in PP today. Just thought I would respond to this.
---

To the OP:

Lord Rama lived in an era where there were no non-Hindus (according to our beliefs). So can't extrapolate it and turn it into a Hindu-non Hindu discussion (not saying you are doing it but just making a point).

I was talking about pulling out a move by trickery for personal benefit.

If this turns into a full blown up religious thread, I probably may not post detailed posts as that sucks up a ridiculous amount of time and I have done it in so many past threads. :D

I repeat it again...Lord Rama wouldn't have pulled this move (in the modern context). Never ever ever.
 
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Tamil Hindu here, Lord Ram isn't popular in my state. In fact many Dravidians consider Ramayan as an act of aggression by outsiders against their lands/people. What I mean to say is that Hinduism can't be defined on the basis of one avatar or one epic, each place has its own version, interpretation and inspiration, even deities. Hinduism is an umbrella term that creates a broad framework for a multitude of faiths and beliefs to co-exist. A forest dweller or some isolated tribesman may have his/her own distinct animistic faith and that too is brought under the fold of Hinduism because of the flexibility Hinduism offers. There is no central book or holy place, or defined set of rules like in Islam or Judaism.

Now what BJP/RSS/VHP/BD practice is entirely different. They are followers of Hindutva (founded in early 20th century) which is a toxic mix of politics and religion with fascism as an underlying feature. The ideologues of Hindutva were inspired by the fascist movements of Europe. Example Golwalkar, one of the leading figures of RSS and a hero for Hindutva forces cited Mussolini as his inspiration. RSS is the brain and BJP is the political front. They want cultural homogenization be it with respect to language or religion (within Hinduism as well), with hegemony of upper castes. PPers mostly see only the religious angle but the Sangh also has waged a soft war against non-Hindi language speakers and other interpretations of Hinduism. For instance the cultural aggression in Bengal where they want to supplant the pre-eminent Shakti (Durga, Kali) and introduce Ram, it reached a tipping point during the election campaign and is still seen as cultural aggression by many there. Hindutva is not an extreme version of Hinduism, IMO it is an enemy of Hinduism and a direct threat to the religion which has always been about accommodating various strands of the umbrella in a non-confrontational way. Religio-cultural homogeneity isn't what Hinduism is about, Hinduism is open to considering Buddha as an avatar and co-opting Sufi saints, Hinduism places no bar on praying to Jesus/Mary for it sees divine in holy figures everywhere.

How BJP has captured political power can be left for another thread but it is a confluence of many circumstances each of which will have to be analyzed in detail. BJP's Hindutva hasn't touched Kerala or Tamil Nadu, they have never won a seat here. It won't be right to generalize Hindus as some PPers mistakenly do, Tamil Nadu has 88% Hindu majority, 75 million population in the state. Andhra is 90% Hindu and again BJP has made no inroads, the present CM is a Christian who swept the polls. There are historical reasons and regional politics which have stopped Hindutva in these states, so one can't take BJP as an example and get insights about the Hindu mind. Many North/West/Central Indian Hindus may be enamored by BJP but this may be a temporary phase, we don't know the future. I guess almost all countries have gone through such phases in their history only to recover, pendulum swings one way or the other and of late not just in India but RW fascist forces have gained significant ground even in Europe and USA.

Coming to your point about Kashmir, the Tamil and Malayali Hindus will have a different take than someone in Haryana or Uttar Pradesh, varies from state to state. What I have observed here, most aren't happy with the development, there have been protests and also a sense of fear about what is next to come (along with Kashmir, Tamil Nadu is seen as a final frontier by the Sangh). So while Tamil Hindus aren't ardent followers of Ram like in some other states (your OP) most do not subscribe to this misadventure by the national government. Our popular leaders have made their points over this and most of us agree with them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I urge the President of India to not precipitate the situation and not take any further steps in this regard until a democratically elected Government is formed there. <br><br>The DMK stands with its Kashmiri brothers and sisters and will oppose any assault on federal structure.</p>— M.K.Stalin (@mkstalin) <a href="https://twitter.com/mkstalin/status/1158352492855353344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 5, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>




Thanks bro! POTW

Really appreciate the detailed post.

Its a shame the Hindutva ideology is being paraded as mainstream Hinduism to the rest of the world.

I started this thread for such a post, its important for people to remember Hinduism would not support unfairness and oppression of others, be it Hindus or Non-Hindus. In times of anger it's important not to malign a whole religion because of the actions of a few or even a government.
 
:))) How generous of you.

Applies to the millions of Indian trolls on the internet who abuse Muslims and their faith. We as Muslims are not allowed to do this. You might find if funny being a secular person but it offends people who hold their religion dear. :)
 
Thanks bro! POTW

Really appreciate the detailed post.

Its a shame the Hindutva ideology is being paraded as mainstream Hinduism to the rest of the world.

I started this thread for such a post, its important for people to remember Hinduism would not support unfairness and oppression of others, be it Hindus or Non-Hindus. In times of anger it's important not to malign a whole religion because of the actions of a few or even a government.

You are giving too much credit to Hinduism than it deserves. In many ways Hindutva is the reformed version of Hinduism.
 
Applies to the millions of Indian trolls on the internet who abuse Muslims and their faith. We as Muslims are not allowed to do this. You might find if funny being a secular person but it offends people who hold their religion dear. :)

You seem to have downed a generous swig of some fake shake this evening :rabada2

But this reminds me. Just earlier today someone mentioned this point somewhere and it suddenly struck me that whenever I've seen Muslims attacking Hindus on YT or wherever, it's usually about the country or cows. Can't recall Hindu gods being mocked. So you might have a point there. Didn't know this aspect about Islam until today.
 
You seem to have downed a generous swig of some fake shake this evening :rabada2

But this reminds me. Just earlier today someone mentioned this point somewhere and it suddenly struck me that whenever I've seen Muslims attacking Hindus on YT or wherever, it's usually about the country or cows. Can't recall Hindu gods being mocked. So you might have a point there. Didn't know this aspect about Islam until today.

Apologies if you're a Hindu. Do you believe in Hindutva ideology?

Quran 6:108 "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do."
 
He was a warrior for good which means he would help the oppressed. Thanks
[MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] Please comment?

I cant believe the BJP, RSS , Modi and the motley crew are following Hinduism but a perverse version which is not in line with traditional teachings but if any Hindu believe they are, I would love to read in detail.

Oppressive is a subjective term. For many, Israelis are oppressed. For others, Palestinians. This is a circular debate.
 
Oppressive is a subjective term. For many, Israelis are oppressed. For others, Palestinians. This is a circular debate.

lol. I would love to hear an argument how Israelis are oppressed. Never heard such a thing before.
 
Apologies if you're a Hindu. Do you believe in Hindutva ideology?

Quran 6:108 "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do."

Not a Hindu anymore. But still maintain an interest in the roots of Hinduism and have volumes of books I should really be reading but am too phony busy with other stuff to get around to them.

Not sure what this Hindutva thing is fully. Have casually attended a couple of RSS gatherings around 11 years back. This was around the time I was losing interest in religion. There was nothing said during those talks that can be called nasty or hateful. It was more about bringing the Hindu back on even ground as there was a feeling that Hindus were always the ones having to give in. I still have a few friends who were more interested in the RSS back then and even now, and they're all practically atheists. One dislikes Muslims in general, but from what I've seen, it's more about pride in your country, culture and traditions. If that is Hindutva, yeah, I'm all for it, despite the misleading Hindu in it. It's a bit like the fact that, The Hindu happens to be the best damn newspaper in India.

The quote you've mentioned reminds me of something my mother told me when I mockingly mentioned that I eat beef outside and that some of the friends who loiter around my place also eat beef. She quoted something from some religious text that says, if the principles that you currently follow in your life don't forbid you from eating beef, you can go ahead. It's your dharma (or was it karma she said... not sure).
 
Being victorious in the fight against evil is a defining characteristic of Hindu Gods.



I can't say I am a Ramayana expert. It is only one of many Hindu religious texts.

I would say that his followers expect Lord Rama to do that which is just.

Is scrapping 370 just? Here are some main views.

1) 370 was an agreement based on which Kashmir joined India, and scrapping it is therefore unjust. Maybe the Supreme Court will have something to say on this.

2) The people of Kashmir want to secede, and keeping them in India by force is unjust.

3) If a group of Indians could leave because they did not want to be part of India, then the country would not last long. As long as all Indians have equal rights, it is just.

Scrapping 370 does not create a situation where Kashmiris have fewer rights than other Indians. Actually, I would say that 370 in a way gave a Kashmiri one less right that other Indians. As a Bengali, I can sell my property to anyone I please. If I was a Kashmiri I would not be able to, so I would end up getting a lower price for my property. So with 370, a Kashmiri actually had one fewer right than a Bengali.

Obviously I think #3 above is most important, but others may go with #1 and #2. As for Lord Rama? Heaven knows!

point 1 is not a fact. Kashmir joined Indian union 2 years before article 370 was created.
 
I don't know about business relationships between them. Anyway the DMK is speaking about Kashmiris, normal Kashmiri citizens.



Missing the context. I said TN is a final frontier for BJP, am I wrong?



Maybe because we have different sets of friends circle. Also look at the social media reaction by our state people.



I don't care about the corrupt and dynastic DMK, I followed the house proceedings and saw those speeches. I was a supporter of AIADMK all along until Amma's death, you can check my past posts. Not anymore because they are acting like subservient stooges of New Delhi.

Im not sure that TN is a final frontier for the BJP but as someone who hails from a south Indian hindu family i can relate to a lot of what you said. However, while it is true that the DMK have strongly opposed this, im not sure that the majority in TN are either Pro oragainst this move in particular. That's impression I got from my Tamil friends. Also you seem to be implying that it is only those who are pro-hindutva support the integration . I don't think this is true atleast for south India a a whole. Haven't all parties in AP for example supported this?
 
Not a Hindu anymore. But still maintain an interest in the roots of Hinduism and have volumes of books I should really be reading but am too phony busy with other stuff to get around to them.

Not sure what this Hindutva thing is fully. Have casually attended a couple of RSS gatherings around 11 years back. This was around the time I was losing interest in religion. There was nothing said during those talks that can be called nasty or hateful. It was more about bringing the Hindu back on even ground as there was a feeling that Hindus were always the ones having to give in. I still have a few friends who were more interested in the RSS back then and even now, and they're all practically atheists. One dislikes Muslims in general, but from what I've seen, it's more about pride in your country, culture and traditions. If that is Hindutva, yeah, I'm all for it, despite the misleading Hindu in it. It's a bit like the fact that, The Hindu happens to be the best damn newspaper in India.

The quote you've mentioned reminds me of something my mother told me when I mockingly mentioned that I eat beef outside and that some of the friends who loiter around my place also eat beef. She quoted something from some religious text that says, if the principles that you currently follow in your life don't forbid you from eating beef, you can go ahead. It's your dharma (or was it karma she said... not sure).

Hindutva has many more facets to what you have heard. Its always best to do your own research and we can see in the remarks by BJP ministers how they are not real Hindus but extremists highjacking the faith.

Im sure there are similar quotes in the holy texts of Hinduism. Abusing anothers religion only leads to abuse of your God or faith, it makes no sense esp since almost all religions are based on peace and understanding.
 
Even though I follow a spiritual path that is different, I did learn ancient scriptures that are followed in hinduism a bit. Many of them talk about oneness of God. Various forms for God are depicted to portray some events or concepts to make the learning easier for common people. There is nothing in the universe that is beyond God. Things (for lack of better word) that get created will get destroyed. Seeing something as good or evil is nothing but our perception only.
 
Hindutva has many more facets to what you have heard.

Obviously.

There's an RSS-run school down the road where I live and the kids who also live there in boarding are being taught to wish each other with a Jai Shri Ram. So there is a facet of the RSS and Hindutva that is about shoving religion down others. I was merely mentioning what I saw personally.
 
lol. I would love to hear an argument how Israelis are oppressed. Never heard such a thing before.

I'm not arguing the merit of that point. Simply pointing out that such an argument exists. I'm sure Google can help.
 
Im not sure that TN is a final frontier for the BJP but as someone who hails from a south Indian hindu family i can relate to a lot of what you said. However, while it is true that the DMK have strongly opposed this, im not sure that the majority in TN are either Pro oragainst this move in particular. That's impression I got from my Tamil friends. Also you seem to be implying that it is only those who are pro-hindutva support the integration . I don't think this is true atleast for south India a a whole. Haven't all parties in AP for example supported this?

I am sure there is a diversity of opinion in South India. For example the soldiers of the Madras Regiment come from a different section from most posters here and no doubt have a different opinion.

Post-independence saw the consolidation of the Regiment and re-affirmation of the versatility and valour of the South Indian troops when the battalions of the Regiment fought fierce battles during the 1947–48 Jammu & Kashmir Operations, the 1962 Sino-Indian Conflict and the Indo-Pak Wars of 1965 and 1971.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madras_Regiment
 
Hindu God's do not have multiple hands or heads. Its a pictorial description of the various capabilities of God(s). Just like King Ravana of SriLanka does not have 10 heads. The 10 heads represent the 10 aspects of him.
 
Not sure but hopefully a Hindu poster can comment.

Do you mean this? Doesnt look to peaceful but there may be some sort of context.

View attachment 93937

This is Maha Kali. She is the personality of Goddess Parvati when she is in angry mood. Shows women power.

Normally, Goddess Parvati is a gentle and very emotional like a helpless Girl. But put her in a situation where she has to protect her children (followers), she can take the personality of Universe destroyer.

As the picture shows, when the Goddess is in angry mood, even the Supreme God Shiva is nothing in front of her. You can see she is stepping on Lord Shiva. In her hand you see the severed head of a Demon who was destroying the creation and harassing her followers.

The power of Prakruti (female form) is given a lot of importance in Sanatana Dharma. Goddess Parvati is the supreme female form and her power is limitless and so immense that even the Supreme God has to lay down on the ground to calm her down when she is in angry mood.

Bottom line, never get a woman too angry. She can give life and also take it away when enough instigated.
 
This is Maha Kali. She is the personality of Goddess Parvati when she is in angry mood. Shows women power.

Normally, Goddess Parvati is a gentle and very emotional like a helpless Girl. But put her in a situation where she has to protect her children (followers), she can take the personality of Universe destroyer.

As the picture shows, when the Goddess is in angry mood, even the Supreme God Shiva is nothing in front of her. You can see she is stepping on Lord Shiva. In her hand you see the severed head of a Demon who was destroying the creation and harassing her followers.

The power of Prakruti (female form) is given a lot of importance in Sanatana Dharma. Goddess Parvati is the supreme female form and her power is limitless and so immense that even the Supreme God has to lay down on the ground to calm her down when she is in angry mood.

Bottom line, never get a woman too angry. She can give life and also take it away when enough instigated.

Great explanation, learned something new. Thanks.

I do love the emphasis on women's power in Hindu scriptures. Does this not translate into real life in India? Why are there so many women harassment issues in spite of such commendable belief systems for women? I'm referencing women's issues not just today but also since before - like burning wives when husbands die. What prompted people to do those things when it obviously contravenes the documented belief systems about women?
 
Great explanation, learned something new. Thanks.

I do love the emphasis on women's power in Hindu scriptures. Does this not translate into real life in India? Why are there so many women harassment issues in spite of such commendable belief systems for women? I'm referencing women's issues not just today but also since before - like burning wives when husbands die. What prompted people to do those things when it obviously contravenes the documented belief systems about women?

Always wondered about it myself. Hindus pray to so many female Goddesses. Yet the role of a female in the society is very limited. Limited to her family traditionally. Patriarchy has trumped the female power.

India did have many examples of female rulers in the past or at least they did play important roles in running the kingdom. Someone with good knowledge of history can throw some light on this and explain us at what point India has turned to mostly patriarchal.

To me, North India is way more patriarchal than the South.
 
Let me say something which will hopefully put an end to this discussion. All religions are good and peaceful. It’s the people who practice distorted versions of them or use religion to achieve their own goals .. what’s bad. Islam and Hinduism do not preach war for unjust cause or taking away people’s rights.

What we are witnessing right now is just politics. That’s it!
 
Bali had a VARDHAN granted by Brahma.

Lord Rama could come in front and destroy him.

But that would undermine the authority of Brahma, which he didn't wish to do.

Vaali after expelling Sugreeva, COVETED his wife forcefully.

So he hid behind tree to kill Vaali (and he had the right to kill as a representative from King Bharata who was the main ruler of all those lands).

You should read the passages where Vaaali in his dying stages cries out to Rama for his injustice and asks him how is this fair and mocks him.

Lord Rama explains everything and Vaali accepts his folly and dies giving Sugreeva his kingdom and asking him to take care of his son Angad.

I wasn't planning on posting on PP today cos I am a bit too busy but thought I would clarify this bit. :)

There was no treachery involved.

----
Kinda too busy today so didn't want to post in PP today. Just thought I would respond to this.
---

To the OP:

Lord Rama lived in an era where there were no non-Hindus (according to our beliefs). So can't extrapolate it and turn it into a Hindu-non Hindu discussion (not saying you are doing it but just making a point).

I was talking about pulling out a move by trickery for personal benefit.

If this turns into a full blown up religious thread, I probably may not post detailed posts as that sucks up a ridiculous amount of time and I have done it in so many past threads. :D

I repeat it again...Lord Rama wouldn't have pulled this move (in the modern context). Never ever ever.
I dont want to be disrespectful but please don't pull this essay stunt on me.

This is exactly the way Krishna explains all his treachery.

When people ask a simple question, write a 10 paged essay so that if they deny it you can blame them for not reading it properly. :yk

Simple question :
You kill a man when he was fighting someone else, now how is this not treachery, in order to defeat a person you need to challenge him to a duel.
If arjuna killing drona was treachery then so is this.
If arjuna killing bhisma was treachery then so is this.
 
Let me say something which will hopefully put an end to this discussion. All religions are good and peaceful. It’s the people who practice distorted versions of them or use religion to achieve their own goals .. what’s bad. Islam and Hinduism do not preach war for unjust cause or taking away people’s rights.

What we are witnessing right now is just politics. That’s it!

No offense but all religions are basically bad, they just have bits and pieces of good here and there.

At best I would say Jainism is the nearest to an idealistic religion and seeing how their followers have absolute no record of violence or misinterpretation of texts speaks about it, ofcourse impractical to practice the religion.
 
At best I would say Jainism is the nearest to an idealistic religion

Don't know much about it, but yeah based on the Jains I've known, seem the most peaceful people. If I were to nitpick, it would be about their obsession with cows and goshalas.

....seeing how their followers have absolute no record of violence or misinterpretation of texts speaks about it.

They do have an anomaly in Mr Amit Shah :srt
 
I dont want to be disrespectful but please don't pull this essay stunt on me.

This is exactly the way Krishna explains all his treachery.

When people ask a simple question, write a 10 paged essay so that if they deny it you can blame them for not reading it properly. :yk

Simple question :
You kill a man when he was fighting someone else, now how is this not treachery, in order to defeat a person you need to challenge him to a duel.
If arjuna killing drona was treachery then so is this.
If arjuna killing bhisma was treachery then so is this.

Not sure why it's an essay.

Your question was answered in 3 lines. Rest was added context.

Bali had a VARDHAN granted by Brahma.

Lord Rama could come in front and destroy him.

But that would undermine the authority of Brahma, which he didn't wish to do.

Yes, we can view Rama's move as treachery.

Fair enough.

But then, we shouldn't call him Maha Purush or any other terms to glorify him.

When God himself is a coward & a cheat, then what does it say about his followers?

So BJP did the right thing.

Tricked and got something done like Lord Rama.

Like cowards and cheats.

----

Now it's your call on which version you prefer?

You can either look at context and situation....or else you should declare Rama as a coward and not ever glorify him ever since you consider his move as treachery in reality.

There shouldn't be any middle ground cos then it would be hypocrisy. Wouldn't it?

Let me know bro.
 
Don't know much about it, but yeah based on the Jains I've known, seem the most peaceful people. If I were to nitpick, it would be about their obsession with cows and goshalas.



They do have an anomaly in Mr Amit Shah :srt

I would had had a meltdown if he was a Jain, I hope he is doing all his sins as a Hindu rather than a jain :P


I am a Hindu Vaishnav, not Jain: Amit Shah

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/i-am-a-hindu-vaishnav-not-jain-amit-shah/articleshow/63648141.cms



Also I think orthodoxed Jains are the extremist non-violent ones, wearing a mouth mask and sweeping before walking, their extremism is not killing bacteria in water so not filtering water lol
 
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Not sure why it's an essay.

Your question was answered in 3 lines. Rest was added context.



Yes, we can view Rama's move as treachery.

Fair enough.

But then, we shouldn't call him Maha Purush or any other terms to glorify him.

When God himself is a coward & a cheat, then what does it say about his followers?

So BJP did the right thing.

Tricked and got something done like Lord Rama.

Like cowards and cheats.

----

Now it's your call on which version you prefer?

You can either look at context and situation....or else you should declare Rama as a coward and not ever glorify him ever since you consider his move as treachery in reality.

There shouldn't be any middle ground cos then it would be hypocrisy. Wouldn't it?

Let me know bro.
Simple, i like the krishna way:
Anything done to protect dharma is valid.
Whwn people around u are using adharma to defeat you then you should not refrain from using treachery.
 
Simple, i like the krishna way:
Anything done to protect dharma is valid.
Whwn people around u are using adharma to defeat you then you should not refrain from using treachery.

What kind of principle is this? Sounds like something out of the Talmud.

Can you clarify?

What is dharma and what do you mean it's ok to be treacharous?
 
Simple, i like the krishna way:
Anything done to protect dharma is valid.
Whwn people around u are using adharma to defeat you then you should not refrain from using treachery.

Why didn't Krishna trick Kauravas and win over kingdom instead of allowing Pandavas to fight righteously in the battle?

He is Lord Krishna.

Should have tricked and given back the kingdom just like BJP did. :P

The thing with Krishna's teachings is that he used trickery to uphold Dharma.

Not for personal gains.
 
In this case, Kashmiris were stripped of their rights using trickery and deceit just like Shakuni stripped Yudhistira of his kingdom, family and wife using a dice.

In Rama and Krishna's case, those who were wrong were clear.

In this case, Kashmiris have been given a raw deal while India and Pakistan have constantly been fighting.

And in the end, they are the victims here.

I dont see the parallels here I am afraid.
 
What kind of principle is this? Sounds like something out of the Talmud.

Can you clarify?

What is dharma and what do you mean it's ok to be treacharous?

It is ok to be treacherous fighting adharma.

But any tom, dick and harry cannot do it citing the Lord's name.

These are complex issues which learned people can answer better.

Moreover, in all the trickery stories, innocents weren't harmed and justified.

When ashwathaama tried trickery and killed people while they were sleeping, he was cursed.

So thats that.
 
In this case, Kashmiris were stripped of their rights using trickery and deceit just like Shakuni stripped Yudhistira of his kingdom, family and wife using a dice.

In Rama and Krishna's case, those who were wrong were clear.

In this case, Kashmiris have been given a raw deal while India and Pakistan have constantly been fighting.

And in the end, they are the victims here.

I dont see the parallels here I am afraid.

Not saying all Kashmiris are innocent but i guess the point is understood.
 
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