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If Shan Masood can improve with hard work, why can't others?

Abdullah719

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There really aren't too many similar examples of players being dropped and coming back so visibly improved.

In 2015, Shan played a couple of decent knocks but didn't look Test quality at all. Struggled against the shorter length on the slower pitches of UAE. Kept nicking off.

Now he's looked the most comfortable Pakistani batsman in South Africa. If anyone said that would happen a year ago, they would've probably been ridiculed.

Shan credits the change to lots of domestic cricket and A games, but he's obviously put in a lot of technical work too.

Why can't others do it as well?
 
Nothing against Pak batsmen, but you need some level of education to have some work ethics, I reckon.

Which Shan has and others don't.
 
Hard work remember. That is the key word
 
Bro, i know as fans we are desperate and he has looked good but its just been 4 innings :genius: Remember Sarfaraz's purple patch? That seems to have happened in our previous life now. Lets wait for 10-15 innings before being sure.

Having said that, Pakistani players have the problem of getting found out after some games. They need to address it after novelty wears off.
 
According to Mickey Arthur Shan also was the most hardworking Pakistani player in the gym and strictly followed a nutrition diet meant for athletes which shows in his physique.

This worldwide orientation is definately something which education gives you
 
Because they can score a 50 or 100 and book their place for the next series or two without getting dropped, then rinse and repeat.

Just ask the master, shafiq!!
 
Bro, i know as fans we are desperate and he has looked good but its just been 4 innings :genius: Remember Sarfaraz's purple patch? That seems to have happened in our previous life now. Lets wait for 10-15 innings before being sure.

Having said that, Pakistani players have the problem of getting found out after some games. They need to address it after novelty wears off.

Think positively :afridi
 
According to Mickey Arthur Shan also was the most hardworking Pakistani player in the gym and strictly followed a nutrition diet meant for athletes which shows in his physique.

This worldwide orientation is definately something which education gives you

Shan has been working hard in the gym for years to be honest, so it's really his batting which has changed a lot rather than the fitness.

But yes, working hard on his fitness shows his dedication to hard work.
 
Even when Shan was first brought into the side he had the reputation of a real hard worker. Furthermore he always admired hard workers and lauded Younis Khan and Alaister Cook as his ideals because of their work ethics. So the work ethic was always there.

Furthermore being well educated helps as that adds maturity and appreciation for the technical side of things. He is also very well off and with his money and father's influence he could access the best facilities. He could even travel abroad for coaching, which I think he did.

Someone like Umar Akmal also has the means and the access to the best facilities and coaches but he has never bothered to put in the same sort of effort. This is where attitude and education come in I guess.
 
Bro, i know as fans we are desperate and he has looked good but its just been 4 innings :genius: Remember Sarfaraz's purple patch? That seems to have happened in our previous life now. Lets wait for 10-15 innings before being sure.

Having said that, Pakistani players have the problem of getting found out after some games. They need to address it after novelty wears off.

Can't really compare Shan to Sarfraz, he's not reliant on having to attack and always be on the offensive. He's looked solid and I think he's the best batsman for Pakistan in this series and he should thrive on the easier pitches in the UAE.
 
Salman Butt was educated as well. It all comes down to hunger for success and gheirat.
 
Salman Butt was educated as well. It all comes down to hunger for success and gheirat.

And he was very good too. However, he wasn't educated. He was just from a posh family and had a comfortable upbringing in Lahore, don't think he went to University. Masood is genuinely educated from a top Uni in the UK.
 
Pakistan has something there with Shan. The average of 26 is deceiving. If persisted with, you can get someone averaging 40+.
 
Decent technique and amazing against short ball. Pakistan have a gem here. He should be playing in ODIs as well.
 
There really aren't too many similar examples of players being dropped and coming back so visibly improved.

In 2015, Shan played a couple of decent knocks but didn't look Test quality at all. Struggled against the shorter length on the slower pitches of UAE. Kept nicking off.

Now he's looked the most comfortable Pakistani batsman in South Africa. If anyone said that would happen a year ago, they would've probably been ridiculed.

Shan credits the change to lots of domestic cricket and A games, but he's obviously put in a lot of technical work too.

Why can't others do it as well?

Have to remember, Shan's also talented and that any old player putting in the yards won't necessarily replicate his results or his new found aura at the crease in this series against SA.
 
And he was very good too. However, he wasn't educated. He was just from a posh family and had a comfortable upbringing in Lahore, don't think he went to University. Masood is genuinely educated from a top Uni in the UK.

LOL, Butt wasn't very good, he was mediocre aside from when he faced India in ODIs and Australia in Tests, outside of that, he has absolutely nothing of note to show. He's in the bracket of players that include Faisal Iqbal and Imran Farhat.
 
Because we make them hero if they hit a boundry or a quick 20-30 we as fans are happy with it.

We fans/media starts comparing them to lara/ponting/wasim or past great for small achievements we need to raise the bar as fans as well. Player needs to be consistent and win you matches after matches then you make them hero not a single boundary or a flashy innings... quick example? Asif Ali ....people are already thinking he ‘ll win us the WC19 get real people...
 
Don't think others do enough hard work - one needs motivation to improve in thankless jobs, which is indicative of the person.

This I can categorically prove - batting or bowling skills are often natural, you are born with it and coaching, system, hard work can take one to top at pro level. What is mostly a function of hard work is your fitness & fielding - something a very average athlete can take into top level. Shan has done remarkably well in that field as well through his hard work, which I can say about other players - most of them are lazy, laid back, unmotivated and disinterested when it comes to improve their fitness, stamina, fielding.
 
Need to see more of him. But as usual the captaincy discussions are probably already under way.
 
We seriously need to have words with our batting coach...

We have batsmen giving us high hopes when coming from domestic and then only regressing after a few matches

In masoods case he is making a comeback and is doing well

Mark my words he will regress after few matches

Only Babar Azam is semi consistent
 
LOL, Butt wasn't very good, he was mediocre aside from when he faced India in ODIs and Australia in Tests, outside of that, he has absolutely nothing of note to show. He's in the bracket of players that include Faisal Iqbal and Imran Farhat.

I think he was talented and a good batsmen. Clearly better than the openers we had after him. And had he played more, I think he would be a Pakistani great by now.
 
Just see his instagram... You will see he is easily the fittest guy in the team. But obviously most folks want "natural talent" (Afridi, Akmal, Shoaib Akhtar) over "hardworking grinders"
 
Other players have had a feee ride in team havent been dropped so why would azhar, asad, sarfraz improve? Players have been in comfort zones to long.
 
We seriously need to have words with our batting coach...

We have batsmen giving us high hopes when coming from domestic and then only regressing after a few matches

In masoods case he is making a comeback and is doing well

Mark my words he will regress after few matches

Only Babar Azam is semi consistent

Thats another story who in their right mind hires a batting coach such as flower... the guy have done jack with out batsmen they have only went oneway which is downhill
 
Nothing against Pak batsmen, but you need some level of education to have some work ethics, I reckon.

Which Shan has and others don't.

So true a certain level of intellect is required to take a step back and dissect ones technique and make the correct adjustments. And you require capable local batting coaches working within the domestic scene, Pakistan unfortunately does not have that culture.
 
Nothing against Pak batsmen, but you need some level of education to have some work ethics, I reckon.

Which Shan has and others don't.

I don't think this is true. It depends completely on every person's character and whether he has the belief to get better.
 
There really aren't too many similar examples of players being dropped and coming back so visibly improved.

In 2015, Shan played a couple of decent knocks but didn't look Test quality at all. Struggled against the shorter length on the slower pitches of UAE. Kept nicking off.

Now he's looked the most comfortable Pakistani batsman in South Africa. If anyone said that would happen a year ago, they would've probably been ridiculed.

Shan credits the change to lots of domestic cricket and A games, but he's obviously put in a lot of technical work too.

Why can't others do it as well?

The supreme example being our own Imran Khan. When first came to Pakistan team, he was a mediocre bowler, not much pace and was not considered to be a hugely talented cricketer. But, an educated young man and determined to be the best in his trade, he worked haaaaaaaaard, and the rest is history.
 
Like others have said, i think most players are hesitant to put the hours in and work as hard.
 
Just read a bit about his work with Gary Palmer. Very interesting.

He has been working a lot on his batting and fitness, both. Admirable work ethic.
 
And he was very good too. However, he wasn't educated. He was just from a posh family and had a comfortable upbringing in Lahore, don't think he went to University. Masood is genuinely educated from a top Uni in the UK.

Salman did not finish high school or A--level, did go to an English medium school, could communicate in English, hence was "educated". Same was the case with Ahmed Shehzad.
 
Just read a bit about his work with Gary Palmer. Very interesting.

He has been working a lot on his batting and fitness, both. Admirable work ethic.

Someone I know goes to the same gym as him and he sees him 7 am in the morning every day.
 
Other players have had a feee ride in team havent been dropped so why would azhar, asad, sarfraz improve? Players have been in comfort zones to long.

THIS

when players have a guaranteed place in the team theres no incentive to work hard and improve

shan obviously has the hunger and desire and being dropped has made him work harder to get back in

the likes of sarfi, azhar and shafiq have been pampered too much and took their place in the team as guaranteed, as a conequence theyve got lazy and regressed, never mind improving

They need to be sent back to doemestics and told in no uncertain terms their performances over the last 12-18 months have been nowhere good enough

then we may see some improvement if they have the desire
 
Averaging 47.25 in SA against this attack is really something.

Also has the best bowling average of 12.5 with 2 wickets. Beastly :shan
 
Been brilliant so far and a great addition to the side but I just hope he doesn't fade away after just having one good series.
 
Shan haris Babar
We are getting there boys!!
Need to prepare properly for next aus your even though it is only a 2 test tour.
Need to get there early play 3 tour games and play shadab faheem at 7 8 with 3 quicks
 
Nothing against Pak batsmen, but you need some level of education to have some work ethics, I reckon.

Which Shan has and others don't.

Spot on and it's one of the reasons why Pakistan cricket needs to become more of an elitist sport like it was in the 70s - which also happens to be the greatest era for Pakistan batting despite the fact that the ones who debuted in 80s and 90s were actually more gifted.
 
During the end of the domestic season Shan comes to the UK to work both on his fitness and his batting with trainers and coaches in England.

Whilst some are happy to stay in the comfort zone, this lad wants to improve.
 
Honestly Shan's fitness should be the bare minimum. It's disgraceful how fat the Pak. cricketers are. Standards need to be higher. These Sarfrazs and Yasirs should be nowhere near the team!
 
During the end of the domestic season Shan comes to the UK to work both on his fitness and his batting with trainers and coaches in England.

Whilst some are happy to stay in the comfort zone, this lad wants to improve.
This.

Comfort zone - that’s the reason I decided many years ago not to lose sleep and take Pakistan cricket any more seriously than the players do, if it’s fine with them to be content with the level of ‘success’ ( or what I call mediocrity) and just turn up to do their shifts and go through the motions, then why should I as a fan be expecting more ? I’ll just sit back and enjoy another episode of this sit com.. at least until the players are willing to take their performances as seriously or as passionately.
 
You have to give him credit and praise for having the desire to improve and stay fit. Shows how much he wants to play for Pakistan. Need more players like this except with more rounded from a young age in terms of skill.
 
Maybe dropping Fakhar right now will do him a world of good. By now everyone knows that his technique is an issue and he struggles badly against the short pitched deliveries aimed at his body and short pitch deliveries in general which the Indians exposed in the Asia Cup and South Africa exposed on this tour. NZ also exposed his terrible leg slide play in the T-20 and ODI series in UAE. If Shan Masood can work on his flaws and pile on heaps off runs in domestic cricket, then why can't Fakhar Zaman do it as well?
 
During the end of the domestic season Shan comes to the UK to work both on his fitness and his batting with trainers and coaches in England.

Whilst some are happy to stay in the comfort zone, this lad wants to improve.

The likes of Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Sarfaraz have the money, resources to hire the trainers, coaches to work on both their fitness, batting skills and techniques, sure maybe we are not blessed with the batting facilities, bowling machines like England, South Africa, Australia, NZ, India which enables their players to practice for 4-6 hours per day whereas our players can at best manage 25-30-40 minutes before the net bowlers become tired, but someone who really wants it will find a way.
 
Spot on and it's one of the reasons why Pakistan cricket needs to become more of an elitist sport like it was in the 70s - which also happens to be the greatest era for Pakistan batting despite the fact that the ones who debuted in 80s and 90s were actually more gifted.

In order for Pakistan Cricket to be an elitist sport, the pays involved have to be NBA style as well where it far supersedes what a youngster can achieve pursuing a Corporate Career in Pakistan or the West after studying from the prestigious Western Universities, Local Universities, getting prestigious professional qualifications. Right now Cricket especially at the domestic level pays a pittance and no educated parent, middle class, upper middle class family will encourage their child to play Pakistan's domestic cricket.
 
Can u share pls

How A Secret Coach Helped Shan Masood Resurrect His Career

Shan Masood is a determined and driven individual. A degree in Management and Sport Sciences at Loughborough University, as well as a rise to the top of Pakistan cricket at the same time, underlined his all-round abilities, even if it meant having to miss lectures. Cricket soon took over for Masood, however, and he was touted as a talented young opening batsman who would perform well at the highest level.

After impressing in domestic cricket, the left-hander achieved a lifelong dream of making his Test debut on his 24th birthday against South Africa in 2013. He immediately had an influence early on with a knock of 75 in the first innings – a match which Masood has fond memories of. “Initially, I was nervous,” he recalls. “South Africa were the number one Test team in the world, they had the top two bowlers in the world in Dale Steyn and Vernon Philander. But what helped me was that I had experience on a Pakistan tour prior to that in Zimbabwe so I got the feeling of being in the Pakistan dressing room. I also got some runs in a practice match against the South Africans prior to that first Test, so I already had a bit experience of playing against the best team in the world, and the nerves had calmed down a little, which helped. I remember receiving some advice from my coach, Dav Whatmore, who told me just to watch the ball closely and play the game like you have before. Thankfully it paid off in that first innings.”

Masood’s path as a batsman since that impressive first knock has been an uneven one, to say the least. An uncertain rest of the series followed, as well as a period out of the side before returning to make his maiden Test hundred (125) in a thrilling record run chase to seal the series for Pakistan in Sri Lanka. It was a performance that certainly stood out for Masood. “That run-chase, along with my partnership (242) with my mentor Younis Khan, who also scored a hundred, as well as playing in that sort of situation was an absolute treat. It turned out to be a very significant knock for me and the country.”

The 27-year-old, born in Kuwait, knows only too well of the challenge that Test cricket brings and that “it is not a game for the faint-hearted” – something that became even more apparent during the tour of England last summer. The series, drawn 2-2, was a sparkling effort from the team, though Masood struggled, scoring just 71 runs from four innings at an average of 17.75. And despite positive early signs (a score of 62 in a warm-up match vs Somerset), Masood felt that wrong shot selection was the catalyst to his downfall.

“When I came into that series, including our two warm-up games against Somerset and Sussex, I felt in good nick. I thought I would have a really good time of it and finally stamp my authority on such big series. Playing in England is a huge thing for any aspiring Pakistani batsman. Unfortunately, things didn’t go to plan. I had the opportunities during the four innings. For example, I managed to bat through a difficult period in the second innings of the first Test, was on 24 and I got out playing a silly shot. Again, at Old Trafford, I got through a similar period in our first innings when the rest of the team was struggling on a track which was not the most natural for any Asian batsman. Yet in general, during that series, I kept making shot-selection errors, which was mainly trying to play a back-foot punch through the covers. But when you face quality bowlers in such conditions, it is difficult to execute such a shot. A better way would have been to leave or play more horizontal bat shots to those deliveries, which would have been less risky.”

James Anderson has proven to be a particular nemesis for Masood, dismissing him six times in eight innings in England and the UAE, though despite his issues against England’s premier fast bowler, Masood feels he can use it as a way of improving in the future. “When you look at the record (six dismissals vs Anderson), people are bound to say I had problems facing him, but Jimmy had been the number one Test bowler in the world for quite a while, along with Dale Steyn. He has got batsmen like Sachin Tendulkar and Virat Kohli out on a regular basis, so for a young man making his way in international cricket, I gave myself time. Nevertheless, apart from two dismissals when I got balls that I couldn’t do anything about, most of the wickets were down to me making silly, uncharacteristic mistakes. I will learn from it and make sure they will not happen again.”

After being replaced for the third Test against England by Sami Aslam, Masood reached a crossroads. A change had to be made. In order to get his career back on track, a new way of thinking had to come into the fold. Step forward, Gary Palmer. After playing first-class cricket for Somerset, Palmer is a coach who believes that an open stance prevents players from falling towards the offside. He is convinced that attention to detail on technique, as well as hitting hundreds of balls to implement the method and ‘build muscle memory’, is paramount to a batsman’s success. They are methods that former England captain Alastair Cook has benefitted from hugely since he began working with Palmer back in 2015. It proved to be an integral part of Cook’s resurgence in form.

Masood is a long-time admirer of Cook and after hearing of the success that was being made from the partnership with Palmer – the pair still work together – Masood decided to take a chance and use the former Somerset man as the help he needed in his aim to improve as a batsman. “I have always followed Cook with an interest,” revealed Masood. “He and Graeme Smith have probably been the best two opening batsmen of the recent era and have churned out runs in the toughest conditions. So after noticing and then reading about the changes Cook made under Gary (Palmer), I researched Gary’s unique ways of batting coaching. And considering the fact that in other sports, especially tennis, players hire private coaches all the time, so I thought ‘why not?’ and gave him a call.

“There were some technical changes I needed to make and I wanted to try something different and ‘out of the box’. During our first conversation, he told me what he thought was wrong with me and when I heard what he had to say and what he wanted me to do, I completely bought into it. Our first net session was three hours, a time we don’t usually practice all at once as players. It was physically and mentally demanding. And when I tried to get the hang of what he was trying to implement, it was something I was willing to take on. I then went back to domestic cricket and applied what I learned with Gary out into the middle.”

Palmer’s methods have proven to be successful with numerous amounts of batsmen from all levels of the game, not least Alastair Cook. His ‘ABC’ method (Alignment, Balance and Completion of shot) has proven to be popular throughout his coaching career. Palmer works privately with a number of professional and international cricketers and in addition, runs the ‘Palmer Cricket Academy’ for aspiring young cricketers.

Masood believes that Palmer stands out from other coaches for two reasons. “Gary bases his coaching around hours and hours of repetition. He gets you to bat for three hours – something I have not done before in a session.” The Pakistani batsman, along with his domestic team mates, particularly bought into Palmer’s theory of ‘four angles’ – a systematic and innovative session designed for technical perfection. “We practiced ‘four angles’ a lot,” continued Masood. “We worked on bowlers coming over the wicket with both inswing and outswing, and the same with round the wicket also. It was much more realistic, match-specific practice, which allowed me to have a set technique for every kind of situation in the game. So those are the two unique things about Gary: the repetition and his method of ‘four angles’.”
Even a man as modest as Masood believes that he has made positive technical changes under Palmer’s coaching. “Gary has made me open my stance up more, as well as stay more still at the crease so that I’m not on the move by the time the ball has been delivered, therefore reducing the chance of me being late on the ball. I also have a better flow to my bat swing now. It is not as rigid and robotic as it was before. It feels more natural now and has allowed me to play certain shots better than I could before.”

Those technical changes have allowed Masood to sparkle on the pitch in domestic cricket back home in Pakistan. During the recent Departmental One-Day cup, he finished the tournament with 420 runs for United Bank Limited. His average of 70 was the second best out of any batsman in the competition to play seven innings or over, behind only Ahmed Shehzad. Once again, it was only Shehzad who scored more hundreds than Masood’s two during that period. Masood also added another century (136) for Islamabad in Pakistan’s Regional One-Day cup.

Despite the strides made through Palmer’s guidance, however, Masood still feels he is ‘work in progress’ and prefers to look at his role-model Alastair Cook as the more completed student of his new coach. “Gary is a brilliant coach and if you want to measure someone, measure what Cook has been doing. Ever since he started working with Gary, you can see that he is hitting the ball better down the ground and he is scoring more fluently and quicker in Test matches also. He is actually the final product that people can associate with Gary Palmer – that’s why I went to Gary, having seen the way Cook changed his game.

“In terms of myself, the season did go well. I started to play a few more shots that I could not before and I started scoring quicker. Now I feel I am in better control of my game and I have a process. And as a batsman, the best thing is that I now have more options. That is what Gary has given me, because of the fact we worked more on technique. Now I can have different strategies and different ways of tackling different situations, due to the fact that I have a set base and I can trust my batting abilities much more.”

Palmer is a strong believer in a solid technique being key for all batsmen. He has a high standard of shot execution in a grooving environment with a real eye for technical perfection. He aims to spot and fix even the smallest of faults in a batsman’s game. However, he has never coached with an international side. Yet Masood believes that the former Somerset man, having worked with him over the past few months, could offer a lot to any side, if given the opportunity. “You have to be receptive enough to work with someone like Gary,” continued the opening batsman, who has played nine Tests so far. “He has the unique ability to be able to work with different kinds of individuals. I’m sure that, from a technical point of view, he will rectify any player’s errors. I’m also sure he would do a great job with whoever else he works with.”

As a result of taking his improvements with Palmer into the domestic game, Masood has been tipped to make a comeback to the Pakistan Test side for their upcoming tour of the West Indies. And given the inconsistent form of Pakistan’s top order during their recent series in Australia and New Zealand, the case for recalling the left-hander has become a credible one. Though Masood, regardless of a potential return to the Test arena, is ignoring the whispers and is focused solely on improving even more. “I don’t want to look at things like a comeback or regaining my place. The reason why is that I just want to make sure that every day I am getting better as a batsman, as a cricketer and as an individual. That is all I want to do.

“If I keep scoring runs, then I am sure people can’t ignore it and that is all I can do. I am never satisfied with what I have, even if I get a hundred or play well, I like to look at the things I have not done well and try to work on them – that is my aim. I consider myself as a student of the game I want to keep learning until the day I stop playing. Things are going well at the moment and I have now found a process that I have been able to trust and I just want to carry that on.
“If I keep working on what I am doing with the right people, the correct frame of mind and maximum effort, then I am sure things will turn around. The main goal is to make yourself a better player. Once you do that, then you are more likely to score runs, wherever you play. It’s all about making sure I have the self-belief, a high skill level and good physical fitness. If I combine those factors then I am sure a chance will come somewhere down the line.”

Indeed, that chance could well be on the horizon, and he has Gary Palmer to thank. Both Masood and Cook have reaped the rewards from taking a chance and working with a personal batting coach – a move that has generally been frowned upon in recent years. And you would be forgiven to think how much progress other international players would make by using help from the likes of Palmer. It certainly seems like a worthwhile move, and Masood is the latest player to prove so.

Source
 
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I think he was talented and a good batsmen. Clearly better than the openers we had after him. And had he played more, I think he would be a Pakistani great by now.

Nope, since 2010 we've only played once again in Australia (in 2016) and by then Butt would've been long out of the team, so there's no sound basis for assuming he was a good batsman then or would have been by now.
 
Most of these cricketers come from poor backgrounds, so I think when they start seeing all the money come their way, they think they've made it. Add to that, we give them superstar treatment after 1 decent performance
 
Most of these cricketers come from poor backgrounds, so I think when they start seeing all the money come their way, they think they've made it. Add to that, we give them superstar treatment after 1 decent performance
I dont think it has anything to do with money or lack of it. It is just an attitude problem and to some extent lack of ability.
 
There really aren't too many similar examples of players being dropped and coming back so visibly improved.

In 2015, Shan played a couple of decent knocks but didn't look Test quality at all. Struggled against the shorter length on the slower pitches of UAE. Kept nicking off.

Now he's looked the most comfortable Pakistani batsman in South Africa. If anyone said that would happen a year ago, they would've probably been ridiculed.

Shan credits the change to lots of domestic cricket and A games, but he's obviously put in a lot of technical work too.

Why can't others do it as well?

its not that simple; you need to have natural talent as well; if you dont have much talent to begin with then hard work will not make you a star
 
Improved, yes.

Improved enough? Don't think so.

Watch him in the next 4-5 matches.
 
Hard work remember. That is the key word
Same reason Misbah became an international class cricketer.

It’s not just hard work. It’s also that he is intelligent and educated and consequently knows how to learn.

I have my doubts that the likes of Azhar or Shafiq have that capacity to learn.
 
That article was highly impressive - I don’t think any other Pakistan player is capable of that level of self-analysis.
 
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I think he has his post-cricketing career well sorted too :D
 
I really hope some of his work ethic rubs off on Babar and haris.

Can u imagine those two if they worked like him.

The guy has turned up and is playing the pull shot like some trundlers are bowling at him!
Has to be in the odi team ahead of imam
 
That article was highly impressive - I don’t think any other Pakistan player is capable of that level of self-analysis.

Agreed. Thanks [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]
Junaid Bhai the good thing is he doesn't seem the type to let any success get to his head, so will remain grounded and hard working.
I'm expecting big things from him now. I have never seen a Pak player look that comfortable in SA in a test match, and I've been watching since late 90s
 
He's done well in domestic, he's worked on his technique, but he has also done a lot of work with coaches in an environment similar to South African conditions.
 
He's done well in domestic, he's worked on his technique, but he has also done a lot of work with coaches in an environment similar to South African conditions.

It just comes down to education and just a better up bringing than his team mates.
 
It just comes down to education and just a better up bringing than his team mates.

Partly, but also that desire and hunger to improve, to prove the critics wrong and to work on areas of your game that need improvement.
 
Partly, but also that desire and hunger to improve, to prove the critics wrong and to work on areas of your game that need improvement.

If only the rest of players had the same level of heart to do well for their country.
 
Yes, agreed to some degree.
However, I think this new administrator, Waseem Khan has to work on getting 4-5 of the top batsmen in Pakistan county cricket contracts. They will then have to adapt to different pitches and conditions rather than the flat-tracks that are the staple of an inferior first-class domestic system. They will also learn what it means to be a professional cricketer by playing week in week out with and against the like, and from thereon permeates a work ethic.
 
Yes, agreed to some degree.
However, I think this new administrator, Waseem Khan has to work on getting 4-5 of the top batsmen in Pakistan county cricket contracts. They will then have to adapt to different pitches and conditions rather than the flat-tracks that are the staple of an inferior first-class domestic system. They will also learn what it means to be a professional cricketer by playing week in week out with and against the like, and from thereon permeates a work ethic.

That can be a short-term objective but his long-term aim will, or should be to fix Pakistan's domestic structure which is a complete failure. A lot has been said and written about what has gone wrong and I think the problems are mostly quite obvious now. However, with some hard work, they can be resolved.
 
We need Babar, Masood, Harris Sohail, Shafiq and Azhar Ali all in county cricket for 2-3 seasons. That will overnight make Flower’s job a lot easier. These guys will be playing with professionals in varying conditions and pitches. County can only add value to this batsmen’s game and temperament.
 
What I find shocking is that in his interview he said that the coach from England made him practice batting for 3-4 hours daily and that was something he wasn't used to back home.... Is this a joke???? You are a professional cricketer and you don't practice batting for four hours a day, a foreign coach has to teach you the simple fact that cricket is a muscle memory sport. No wonder we have no batsmen, if they are not practicing at least that many hours.
 
Yes, you’re correct on your long-term fix. But the short-term has to be to get them playing abroad.
 
During the end of the domestic season Shan comes to the UK to work both on his fitness and his batting with trainers and coaches in England.

Whilst some are happy to stay in the comfort zone, this lad wants to improve.

This isn't a criticism of Shan but not everyone can afford to train overseas for months on end and/or hire a private coach for extensive net sessions.
 
This isn't a criticism of Shan but not everyone can afford to train overseas for months on end and/or hire a private coach for extensive net sessions.

I don't think the other players would go hungry if they did what Shan did.
 
Trying to avoid hyperbole here, someone like Babar is potentially as good now as Kohli started out. The difference is, Kohli knew he wanted to be the best, had the desire, the work ethic, was humble enough to learn, and cultivate his game; he needed no motivation.
Babar hasn’t got a clue just how good he can be, and there is neither work ethic, hunger or the structure for him in place to raise his game to the next level.
 
We only have our own selection policies to blame. We're desperate to debut players as young as possible, claiming domestic is useless and they'll be ruined. When they get older we name them tried and tested failures.

Then you have the regulars who keep getting picked regardless of how they do, guys like Kamran Akmal who as a result didn't improve whilst in international cricket. Or guys who knew they'd be back eventually after a short drop. They'd only need a good performance or two to get back into the team or simply good enough rather than really topping domestic charts for a few seasons.

Why I've said we should instead promote a culture that if you fail in internationals, go back and work on your flaws and you'll be back if you give a strong enough case in domestics. A lot of these guys are so scared of mucking up their initial chances as they know they won't get another chance in the future no matter how they perform. Part of the reason maybe Shan improved as he had better belief that he would get picked again if he performed perhaps due to better backing from others and coach.

It is these players who go back to domestic and significantly improve that they are topping domestic easily should be favoured above all others. Not youngsters who haven't performed in domestic yet or had one good season.

What we keep relying on is young talent who instantly perform in international cricket. But this is so rare in today's cricketing world. Most only have one or two players who are like that who debut young and stay in the team performing. Even the stronger teams, very few have that sort of player, every team tends to have 1 or 2 of these max. We even have 1 in Babar, but to hope for 11 just isn't realistic.

Youngsters who come into int cricket, it's nice to win games, but their main focus really should be working out what their flaws are and what they need to work on. Focus on really cementing their place in the team on their 2nd/3rd return into the team, not clinging onto the 1st.
 
Good point. Education opens your eyes and raises awareness of the possibilities. Azhar and Shafiq can only see in front of their noses and not beyond.
 
It's too early to conclusively say that Shan has improved and praise him. I would give him a few more series and see whether he delivers the results consisitently. Pakistani fans seem too easily impressed.
 
Trying to avoid hyperbole here, someone like Babar is potentially as good now as Kohli started out. The difference is, Kohli knew he wanted to be the best, had the desire, the work ethic, was humble enough to learn, and cultivate his game; he needed no motivation.
Babar hasn’t got a clue just how good he can be, and there is neither work ethic, hunger or the structure for him in place to raise his game to the next level.

You can say that for pretty much any Pakistani bat, now and before.

Nazir, Butt, Akmals etc..

Nazir has a century against a strong Windies bowling line up
 
He has done good so far .
But we should wait and see if really he has improved or its just a purple patch
 
We need Babar, Masood, Harris Sohail, Shafiq and Azhar Ali all in county cricket for 2-3 seasons. That will overnight make Flower’s job a lot easier. These guys will be playing with professionals in varying conditions and pitches. County can only add value to this batsmen’s game and temperament.

Shafiq and Azhar are at retirement age.

You need promising youngsters to hone their techniques overseas, not washed-up has-beens.
 
We need Babar, Masood, Harris Sohail, Shafiq and Azhar Ali all in county cricket for 2-3 seasons. That will overnight make Flower’s job a lot easier. These guys will be playing with professionals in varying conditions and pitches. County can only add value to this batsmen’s game and temperament.

This is the misperception and entitlement attitude, you do not decide to go to county cricket when you feel like it, they have to demand your selection and be willing to pay you
 
We need Babar, Masood, Harris Sohail, Shafiq and Azhar Ali all in county cricket for 2-3 seasons. That will overnight make Flower’s job a lot easier. These guys will be playing with professionals in varying conditions and pitches. County can only add value to this batsmen’s game and temperament.

What I find shocking is that in his interview he said that the coach from England made him practice batting for 3-4 hours daily and that was something he wasn't used to back home.... Is this a joke???? You are a professional cricketer and you don't practice batting for four hours a day, a foreign coach has to teach you the simple fact that cricket is a muscle memory sport. No wonder we have no batsmen, if they are not practicing at least that many hours.

Pakistan in its domestic cricket lacks the modern bowling machines all over the country, in the academies unlike Australia, England, NZ, South Africa, India where an individual batsman can easily practice batting for 5-6 hours.

In Pakistan a player at the NCA has to arrange for net bowlers, balls and these practice session last a max of 40 min before the bowlers run out of steam
 
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