If Shan Masood can improve with hard work, why can't others?

[ExpressPacer]

Masood is going to get a County contract next season, I can bet on it. Earlier, I'd have hoped he gets to play a Shield season but with him having improved his game against the short ball and being relatively comfortable on bouncy pitches, it is lateral movement on the 4th stump line under cloud cover which he needs to improve upon. With the WC only a few months away, I would play as much cricket in NZ/UK as I could if I were him.

Pakistani batsmen should fly to Ireland, England and even Scotland and train as much as they can pre-WC to get a gist of things ASAP. I think it would be instrumental.

 

[JattMaula]

He is batting really really well. Nothing has truly troubled him in SA yet.

 

[mak36]

I don't think the other players would go hungry if they did what Shan did.

Depends on who you mean by other players.

I very much doubt the average domestic cricketer can afford the flights, accommodation, living costs etc associated with living abroad for a few months and on top of that hire a private coach for net sessions, whilst also being the main breadwinner for their family.

The real question is why should that be necessary i.e. the age old question why is the domestic system so incapable of helping players develop?

 

[Abdullah]

People say he was coming into his own with that record after 25 games but now a days we dont want to give people chance over 5 or 10 games. Hmm

 

[Abdullah]

Hearing news about Shan elevation to test captaincy.
Why the rush

 

[Haroon786]

People say he was coming into his own with that record after 25 games but now a days we dont want to give people chance over 5 or 10 games. Hmm

You sure?

Nowadays, we have the man, the myth, the legend - Asad Papa Shafiq getting 9 years to cement his place in the team!

 

[Syed1]

Looked miles better than tailender Azhar Ali who was supposed to be best bat in the side.

 

[Abdullah]

You sure?

Nowadays, we have the man, the myth, the legend - Asad Papa Shafiq getting 9 years to cement his place in the team!

He is now a "senior"
I'm talking about the guys who have just started playing.

 

[Saj]

Depends on who you mean by other players.

I very much doubt the average domestic cricketer can afford the flights, accommodation, living costs etc associated with living abroad for a few months and on top of that hire a private coach for net sessions, whilst also being the main breadwinner for their family.

The real question is why should that be necessary i.e. the age old question why is the domestic system so incapable of helping players develop?

I'm talking about the Pakistan squad players, Pakistan A players also.

Why is it necessary? Look at the state of domestic cricket in Pakistan. Look at the coaches at domestic level. Look at the coaches at the NCA (apart from Mudassar).

 

[Syed1]

Him being educated probably has something to do with it. Otherwise we have seen paindus like Umar Akmal missing straighter ones from part-timers for a decade without learning.

 

[Haroon786]

He is now a "senior"
I'm talking about the guys who have just started playing.

True but we must remember the core of the test batting unit has been the same for many years, so we haven't had many roles to give chances to younger players. Even so, the likes of Shan, Babar and Umar Akmal have all played well over 10 Tests so chances are being given, but you have to show some potential to justify a place in the team.

 

[hadi123]

Because he doesn't have the mentality of a typical Pakistani backwards individual. He's willing to step outside the comfort zone, he's willing to invest in himself and willing to accept what his flaws are. Hard work always pay off and he is reaping the rewards. He should be an inspiration to others.

 

[Kaka4pope]

The likes of Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Sarfaraz have the money, resources to hire the trainers, coaches to work on both their fitness, batting skills and techniques, sure maybe we are not blessed with the batting facilities, bowling machines like England, South Africa, Australia, NZ, India which enables their players to practice for 4-6 hours per day whereas our players can at best manage 25-30-40 minutes before the net bowlers become tired, but someone who really wants it will find a way.

Is that really true? That Pakistan's international batters don't have proper access to bowling machines like others and rely on net bowlers? Pitiful if its the case.

 

[sshakir411]

The point with Shan is not the expensive coaching he has gotten but rather the realization of the amount of work he had to put in to become a better player.

If junior goes and bats for 3 hours a day with let’s say someone like M. Yousuf, I’m sure he will improve drastically. The issue is most of our players don’t put in the work needed to keep improving because they are made to believe that they’re talented superstars who are born with the natural gift of batting.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hard work is a pre-requisite, but there are other factors equally as important. Technique and shot selection are crucial factors in Masood's game. He isn't a naturally gifted batsman, but he handles the short ball much better than most Pakistani batsmen in this squad, and he keeps his shot selection limited to those he can execute well.

This is the opposite of a player like Ahmed Shezad, who has an array of fancy shots, but no idea when to deploy them, or how to find gaps for singles when the bad balls are in short supply.

 

[MenInG]

Guys leave Butts past where it belongs.

Read post #1 and respond accordingly

 

[Pete Rose]

Hard work is a pre-requisite, but there are other factors equally as important. Technique and shot selection are crucial factors in Masood's game. He isn't a naturally gifted batsman, but he handles the short ball much better than most Pakistani batsmen in this squad, and he keeps his shot selection limited to those he can execute well.

This is the opposite of a player like Ahmed Shezad, who has an array of fancy shots, but no idea when to deploy them, or how to find gaps for singles when the bad balls are in short supply.

What array of fancy shots? He got in the head by a medium pacer on a UAE pitch and now he plays like a nightwatchman

 

[topspin]

If Pakistan still had Sharjeel they could have played a menacing top 4 in the batting order:

Fakhar
Sharjeel
Shan Masood
Babar

That's a world class top order.

But we'll settle for a decent top 3 for now - just need to find a way to replace Imam with Shan somehow.

 

[Abdullah719]

Guys leave Butts past where it belongs.

Read post #1 and respond accordingly

Salman Butt discussion has been moved over to http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?235548, please continue there...

 

[Savak]

Tribute to Shan Masood, he looks a much better and improved player for Pakistan.

 

[Markhor]

Listened to Shan Masood on a podcast and came away really, really impressed by his insights, level headedness and self-awareness.

Not the most naturally talented cricketer but he's not afraid to seek out advice from all quarters and put in the hard yards.

He mentioned that if he fails with the bat, he really wants to put in a good fielding performance to make up for it which I loved to hear.

I think him and Abid, who have been brilliant when paired together in A team cricket, must be given a long run as openers in Tests. I also wouldn't rule out a 50 over career given his List A record.

 

[Forum363]

If the tour goes ahead, he should be captaining the Test team in England this summer.

Our most improved cricketer and a complete breath of fresh air personality wise after the trash we’ve had to put up with for example the Akmal brothers etc.

 

[BoomBoomCricket]

If the tour goes ahead, he should be captaining the Test team in England this summer.

Our most improved cricketer and a complete breath of fresh air personality wise after the trash we’ve had to put up with for example the Akmal brothers etc.

Azhar Ali's won his last 2 Tests comfortably. And made runs in them.

 

[Mamoon]

You cannot improve with hard work beyond a certain level if you don’t have ability.

Masood will never be good enough to be a consistent batsman at this level even if he bats 24/7 with the best coach in the world.

He has no natural ability at all.

 

[Savak]

Azhar Ali never paid the price for that tour of SA in 2019 where he had 55 runs in 3 test matches.

One horror tour for Shan Masood and people are throwing knives at him. Prior to this tour Masood scored a century against Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and England.

 

[Mamoon]

Azhar Ali never paid the price for that tour of SA in 2019 where he had 55 runs in 3 test matches.

One horror tour for Shan Masood and people are throwing knives at him. Prior to this tour Masood scored a century against Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and England.

Azhar is Tendulkar compared to him.

Shan Masood has been around the international setup since 2013 and he has not looked convincing at this level at any point.

7-8 years is more than sufficient for any quality player to prove that he belongs at this level.

Masood is rubbish with no talent. There is no beating around the bush.

 

[Madplayer]

Bro, i know as fans we are desperate and he has looked good but its just been 4 innings : Remember Sarfaraz's purple patch? That seems to have happened in our previous life now. Lets wait for 10-15 innings before being sure.

Having said that, Pakistani players have the problem of getting found out after some games. They need to address it after novelty wears off.

Sometimes i suprise myself at how good an analyst I am

 

[Savak]

Azhar is Tendulkar compared to him.

Shan Masood has been around the international setup since 2013 and he has not looked convincing at this level at any point.

7-8 years is more than sufficient for any quality player to prove that he belongs at this level.

Masood is rubbish with no talent. There is no beating around the bush.

I am pretty certain he will be back. He came back to the Pakistani team in 2019 after scoring loads of runs in domestic cricket in 2017 & 2018

 

[Savak]

Masood fixed his problems vs the bouncers but now bowlers have started to trap him lbw. Time to go back to the drawing board

 

[Mamoon]

I am pretty certain he will be back. He came back to the Pakistani team in 2019 after scoring loads of runs in domestic cricket in 2017 & 2018

If he is back then we should accept that we are in the same tier as Zimbabwe and Ireland as a Test team.

No point in keeping giving chances to someone who has established beyond any doubt that he does not belong in international cricket.

 

[Mamoon]

Masood fixed his problems vs the bouncers but now bowlers have started to trap him lbw. Time to go back to the drawing board

And keep him in the drawing board.

When he fixes his problem against bouncers, he starts edging the ball. When he fixes that problem, he starts getting LBW. When he will fix this problem, he will start getting bounced out again.

The only fix is to get him out of international cricket for good.

 

[Savak]

If he is back then we should accept that we are in the same tier as Zimbabwe and Ireland as a Test team.

No point in keeping giving chances to someone who has established beyond any doubt that he does not belong in international cricket.

People felt the same way about Hafeez who now truly understands his game best and what works for him. Some people are late bloomers

 

[Savak]

Pakistani fans are so typical. When imam got a pair in Australia in 2019 against Starc and Hazelwood, everyone screamed a sigh of relief get this Inzi sponsored parchi put of the side and now some people are clamouring for his recall

This is the same guy who was getting caught in the slips in the UAE against grandholme.

 

[Mamoon]

People felt the same way about Hafeez who now truly understands his game best and what works for him. Some people are late bloomers

The way Hafeez timed the ball and some of the shots he hit and even some of the innings he played, it was obvious that he has a lot of natural ability.

Masood has shown time and time again that he has no natural ability. You can work like the devil but if you don’t have ability, you won’t become a top level player in any sport.

 

[Madplayer]

People felt the same way about Hafeez who now truly understands his game best and what works for him. Some people are late bloomers

Hafeez always had strokeplay talent. Shan is talentless. Plus hafeez was always a gun LOI bowler.

 

[Savak]

The way Hafeez timed the ball and some of the shots he hit and even some of the innings he played, it was obvious that he has a lot of natural ability.

Masood has shown time and time again that he has no natural ability. You can work like the devil but if you don’t have ability, you won’t become a top level player in any sport.

You don't score 71 runs against Starc in Australia and pull him for four without ability. It was the same game where Imam got a pair, the guy everyone wants recalled.

Ramiz Raja is absolutely right about Pakistan being the country of recycled players

 

[Mamoon]

You don't score 71 runs against Starc in Australia and pull him for four without ability. It was the same game where Imam got a pair, the guy everyone wants recalled.

Ramiz Raja is absolutely right about Pakistan being the country of recycled players

If Yasir can score a Test hundred in Australia against an ATG level attack, so could Masood.

The point is that neither Yasir has the ability to become a 40+ averaging Test batsman and neither does Masood.

 

[Mamoon]

If an average of 29 after 8 years of international experience is not an illustration of lack of ability, what is it?

 

[JibranAnsari]

33 in last 8 innings after 3 consecutive 100s

cant recall any pakistani batsman doing this bad for 8 innings on a run.

 

[Savak]

If an average of 29 after 8 years of international experience is not an illustration of lack of ability, what is it?

Tendulkar and Attapatu did not have earth shattering stats in their first few years either.

Hafeez started his career for Pakistan in 2003 and routinely in and out of the team, till he finally got a permanent slot in 2010 after which he never looked back and the guy was 30-31 at the time

 

[Savak]

33 in last 8 innings after 3 consecutive 100s

cant recall any pakistani batsman doing this bad for 8 innings on a run.

Azhar Ali had 55 runs in 6 innings, his avg dipped took a career high of 48 to 42 but the selectors persisted with him

 

[Mamoon]

Tendulkar and Attapatu did not have earth shattering stats in their first few years either.

Hafeez started his career for Pakistan in 2003 and routinely in and out of the team, till he finally got a permanent slot in 2010 after which he never looked back and the guy was 30-31 at the time

Tendulkar was 16 when he made his international debut and he always looked like a million dollar talent. Are you seriously using his example to justify Masood? I thought you wanted to have a serious discourse. I was wrong.

 

[waleed88]

Tendulkar and Attapatu did not have earth shattering stats in their first few years either.

Hafeez started his career for Pakistan in 2003 and routinely in and out of the team, till he finally got a permanent slot in 2010 after which he never looked back and the guy was 30-31 at the time

Aapki HBL mai nauki pakki hai is defense kay baad

 

[Savak]

Tendulkar was 16 when he made his international debut and he always looked like a million dollar talent. Are you seriously using his example to justify Masood? I thought you wanted to have a serious discourse. I was wrong.

My point was Tendulkar did not have great stats in his first 80-100 games for India and he only started showing some semblance of world class consistent performances 5-6 years after his debut from 94-95 onwards

 

[JibranAnsari]

Azhar Ali had 55 runs in 6 innings, his avg dipped took a career high of 48 to 42 but the selectors persisted with him

still not as bad as shans , 33 runs in 8 innings

 

[Mamoon]

My point was Tendulkar did not have great stats in his first 80-100 games for India and he only started showing some semblance of world class consistent performances 5-6 years after his debut from 94-95 onwards

A 12 year old Tendulkar had 100x the ability a 31 year old Masood has. India were patient with him because they knew what he was going to do once he found his feet at this level.

Similarly, India persisted with Rohit for 4-5 years of underwhelming performances because they knew he was once in a generation talent.

Masood has not shown the ability to excel at the highest level. Persisting with will only end in disappointment and pain.

 

[hur rizvi]

Azhar Ali had 55 runs in 6 innings, his avg dipped took a career high of 48 to 42 but the selectors persisted with him

Azhar Ali was a proven performer with 15 hundreds on his back. Comparing him to Shan is like comparing Lara to Wavel hinds.

I get your point that Shan might be back sometime n future but got to give it to Mamoon Shan just doesnt have the ability to become an international class opener

Him coming back because others like Imam are garbage wont prove that Shan is good enough

 

[Savak]

It took Masood 4-6 months of daily 3-4 hour sessions with an English batting coach in England along with 2 major seasons in domestic cricket to become an improved player who improved his average from 25 to 32

He should now target around 8 hour daily sessions with a one to one coach and one big season in domestic cricket and soon that average of 30 will reach 42-45

 

[Mamoon]

It took Masood 4-6 months of daily 3-4 hour sessions with an English batting coach in England along with 2 major seasons in domestic cricket to become an improved player who improved his average from 25 to 32

He should now target around 8 hour daily sessions with a one to one coach and one big season in domestic cricket and soon that average of 30 will reach 42-45

He should target around 20 hours daily and he will soon reach Don Bradman.

 

[hur rizvi]

he should target around 20 hours daily and he will soon reach don bradman.

:d

Biggest sporting success story coming up

 

[Savak]

He should target around 20 hours daily and he will soon reach Don Bradman.

Why not. Professionals at times work 10-12 hour days, no reason to believe Masood cannot devote that kind of time to his batting

 

[hur rizvi]

Naseem shah has no future in bowling he should give 10 hours a day to batting and soon he'll average around 30

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

He should target around 20 hours daily and he will soon reach Don Bradman.

Uff

 

[Zaz]

Savak needs to stop digging a hole for himself

Its time we put masood out of his misery once and for all Its hilarious him compsring masood to tendulkar

 

[Varun]

It took Masood 4-6 months of daily 3-4 hour sessions with an English batting coach in England along with 2 major seasons in domestic cricket to become an improved player who improved his average from 25 to 32

He should now target around 8 hour daily sessions with a one to one coach and one big season in domestic cricket and soon that average of 30 will reach 42-45

Hilarious stuff.

I'm sure you have better players in domestic who can average better without doing any of this - just pick them instead.

 

[Savak]

Hilarious stuff.

I'm sure you have better players in domestic who can average better without doing any of this - just pick them instead.

Not so sure, they all have some issues or the other and they get found out. Abid Ali came on the back of solid domestic performances for years and is now getting exposed in international cricket

 

[observer1]

He certainly needs to be rotated out of the squad, for his own good for the the team.

I was not convinced by this 150 against England as he had more than a few chances there.

I know NZ has been difficult for touring teams but Abid Ali has gritted it out. No, he's not made loads of runs but atleast he has made bowlers work for his wicket. Shan has offered zero runs and survived only a handful of balls.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

He certainly needs to be rotated out of the squad, for his own good for the the team.

I was not convinced by this 150 against England as he had more than a few chances there.

I know NZ has been difficult for touring teams but Abid Ali has gritted it out. No, he's not made loads of runs but atleast he has made bowlers work for his wicket. Shan has offered zero runs and survived only a handful of balls.

lol lets not talk about chances.. how many did Williamson and Nicholls got? 3 a piece? Nicholls had 3 drop catches, countless inside edges missing stumps and out of a no-ball... so lets def NOT talk about chances

for that matter, Asad Shafiq has not scored a century without being dropped at least 2wice.

 

[gazza619]

Most of threads which were made in praise of our players have become a joke. Some of these players got far too many chances and this is plain stupid.

 

[Jabo]

Haha

he was never great, he was under mediocre
but some hyped him

with the likes of Shan/Rizwan/Shafiq/Azhar

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

In my opinion, the Shan experiment is over. Didn't work.

 

[in_cutter]

According to Mickey Arthur Shan also was the most hardworking Pakistani player in the gym and strictly followed a nutrition diet meant for athletes which shows in his physique.

This worldwide orientation is definately something which education gives you

What use is all the hard work at the gym if he can’t bat?!

 

[in_cutter]

[MENTION=2501]Savak[/MENTION] chatting absolute rubbish!!

No way can you defend Shan.

 

[burger_uno]

interesting that focus is on shan masood. i saw him live in 2016 england series where his technique looked completely faulty and where he was found out as expected. i also recall hearing or reading that he had strong backing of a powerful govt flunkey which might explain his selection. after being dropped however, he did appear to have worked on his game and to his credit, deserved a look on the strength of his domestic performance.

having said that, did he deserve to come up ahead of sami aslam? i am not so sure about that. sami aslam was dropped from the test team despite putting scores of 59, 2, 39 and 1 in his last four innings. if sami aslam deserved to be dropped on that performance, than so should shan masood after his return in nz. also noteworthy that sami aslam put up a very creditable performance during last tour of nz where, while he did not score highly in the first test match, he consumed a lot of balls and played out the new ball. in the second test match, which was a copy of the first test of this series, sami aslam aslam got a 90 in the second inning when pakistan was trying to bat-out the last day to save the test match. pakistan was nearly through before rizwan, who was the recognized batsman at that time, exposed the tail by taking a single of the first ball of the fourth remaining over of the day. as was to be expected wahab promptly got out in that over and the last man soon after that. i had a very poor opinion of rizwan since then and i am glad to see that he has proved me wrong with his recent scores. also shows that sometimes it pays to be patient with new players.

back to sami aslam, i believe he was poorly treated because two players competing for his spot had powerful backing. sami aslam was dropped from pak setup during the stint of inzimam when imam-ul-haq came to the spotlight. i believe that sami aslam was ignnored despite doing well in challenging circumstances. pakistani top order including misbah and yk had a very poor tour of nz when sami aslam stood out. instead, sami aslam was discarded hence his frustration. more importantly a loss for pakistan.

selection based on criteria other than merit will eventually produce due reward. in the past we have hew world class players who bailed us out. but when team is going through transition, more often than, failure will be the likely outcome.

 

[coy0607]

Why not. Professionals at times work 10-12 hour days, no reason to believe Masood cannot devote that kind of time to his batting

International cricket isn't a function of hard work alone. You need talent

 

[offstump]

I think the Shan experiment is over. Great for him personally, through sheer hard work he was able to crack the national test team lineup. Granted, there's still a question mark if he was ever international quality but he's done better than 99% of the population in this regard. Having said that time to move on.

 

[Saj]

33 runs in his last 7 Test innings.

He needs a rest from international cricket. He looks mentally shot and technically awful.

 

[Shoaibbtt]

33 runs in his last 7 Test innings.

He needs a rest from international cricket. He looks mentally shot and technically awful.

Yep, but look at the space between those tests. I reckon he probs needs to spend time in white ball cricket, i reckon he's a good candidate for ODI cricket and maybe t20 perhaps that might aid him in his test cricket form. It's the same old story with Pakistan cricket rinse and repeat whenever we get beat overseas by a formidable opponent no accountability of actions.

 

[Savak]

I hope people don't use Shan Masood as an example to discourage others from working hard i.e. don't bother, you are not good enough and don't have it

 

[Khan12]

I hope people don't use Shan Masood as an example to discourage others from working hard i.e. don't bother, you are not good enough and don't have it

I hope its used as an example that a talentless player will not make it big no matter how hard they work.

 

[The Viper]

Poor footwork. Horror tour for him.

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/de8a2e" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

 

[Pakpak]

33 runs in his last 7 Test innings.

He needs a rest from international cricket. He looks mentally shot and technically awful.

That's 4.8 runs per innings....absolutely horrific.

 

[Saj]

Poor footwork. Horror tour for him.

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/de8a2e" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Look at where his feet are - nowhere.

Look at the head position - nowhere.

Look at the angle of the bat.

He's gone, needs a break from international cricket, maybe a long break.

 

[offstump]

I hope people don't use Shan Masood as an example to discourage others from working hard i.e. don't bother, you are not good enough and don't have it

The lesson is that if you are more talented than 99% of the population then by putting in hard work on and off the field you can become a world class player. Shan is an average talent through hard work, natural talent was extremely limited and he manufactured himself into a cricketer and the results are in front of us.

 

[Savak]

The lesson is that if you are more talented than 99% of the population then by putting in hard work on and off the field you can become a world class player. Shan is an average talent through hard work, natural talent was extremely limited and he manufactured himself into a cricketer and the results are in front of us.

Umar Akmal could have done so much had he a fraction of the same desire and work ethic

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

The lesson is that if you are more talented than 99% of the population then by putting in hard work on and off the field you can become a world class player. Shan is a very very average talent through hard work, natural talent was extremely limited and he manufactured himself into a cricketer and the results are in front of us.

fixed

 

[offstump]

Umar Akmal could have done so much had he a fraction of the same desire and work ethic

I agree. UA was an exceptional talent but no work ethic or ability to think critically.

 

[Savak]

The Hardworking Shan Masood back in the team and scoring runs again .

Hard working but not a naturally gifted player producing results over non hard working talented player but never producing results.

 

[Kianig89]

Not convinced by Shan unfortunately he is a very limited player