If Umar Akmal is unfit - why did Lahore Qalandars play him but not the national team?

[msb314]

I am by no means an Umar Akmal apologist but would like to question the PCB's train of thought here.

Lahore Qalandar's are a private institution with the sole purpose of making money and winning the PSL along with promoting their brand. They would do so by only playing the best players to maximize the performance of their team. Umar Akmal was amongst their main players and played every game of the PSL despite being "unfit". Hence, the Qalandar's owner's and management thought junior was necessary to their aims of winning.

Now the PCB has more altruistic goals like promoting young talent, spreading cricket throughout the country and ensuring cricketing sustainability along with more tangible goals like winning consistently and having a strong performing national team.

How come Umar Akmal suddenly is not "fit" enough to play a T20 series when he just played an entire PSL tournament under a far more cutthroat institution? ODI's I can maybe understand but T20's??

If he could play an entire PSL surely he is fit enough to play a T20 series int he WI right?

 

[Bilal7]

This shows you the difference between a T20 team that is merely looking at gathering all the "name" players into their team and an international team that is looking to play the best available players.

Did the Qalanders have a fitness camp? I'm sure all these retirees, fringe players and past greats are in no great physical shape. Yet they routinely make the big IPL and Big Bash teams. Umar Akmal making the Lahore side is no big deal and definitely does not prove that he has been hard done by.

 

[msb314]

This shows you the difference between a T20 team that is merely looking at gathering all the "name" players into their team and an international team that is looking to play the best available players.

Did the Qalanders have a fitness camp? I'm sure all these retirees, fringe players and past greats are in no great physical shape. Yet they routinely make the big IPL and Big Bash teams. Umar Akmal making the Lahore side is no big deal and definitely does not prove that he has been hard done by.

Except the T20 team is under greater pressure to perform and win with huge sums of money involved in franchise cricket.

These T20 teams are not interested in developing talent and want instant results - Umar Akmal was considered good enough to help them achieve those aims.

 

[cricketInsight]

Had Umar been performing, lack of fitness was not going to get him dropped.

Because he didnt do anything notable in AUS or PSL was the real reason for him being dropped in favor of someone like Fakhar Zaman.

 

[Bilal7]

Except the T20 team is under greater pressure to perform and win with huge sums of money involved in franchise cricket.

These T20 teams are not interested in developing talent and want instant results - Umar Akmal was considered good enough to help them achieve those aims.

T20 league standards are far below international T20 team standards. Why are you even arguing this point?

 

[CricketAnalyst]

I am by no means an Umar Akmal apologist but would like to question the PCB's train of thought here.

Lahore Qalandar's are a private institution with the sole purpose of making money and winning the PSL along with promoting their brand. They would do so by only playing the best players to maximize the performance of their team. Umar Akmal was amongst their main players and played every game of the PSL despite being "unfit". Hence, the Qalandar's owner's and management thought junior was necessary to their aims of winning.

Now the PCB has more altruistic goals like promoting young talent, spreading cricket throughout the country and ensuring cricketing sustainability along with more tangible goals like winning consistently and having a strong performing national team.

How come Umar Akmal suddenly is not "fit" enough to play a T20 series when he just played an entire PSL tournament under a far more cutthroat institution? ODI's I can maybe understand but T20's??

If he could play an entire PSL surely he is fit enough to play a T20 series int he WI right?

Fitness isn't everything. But some teams want to make a point of it.

I can definitely understand playing unfit players (like Gayle). The question isn't 'fit vs unfit' but how many runs that fitness costs and whether it is compensated by other skills.

Maybe Lahore and Pakistan have different views on that.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Except the T20 team is under greater pressure to perform and win with huge sums of money involved in franchise cricket.

These T20 teams are not interested in developing talent and want instant results - Umar Akmal was considered good enough to help them achieve those aims.

And failed miserably too.

Perhaps it's fitness and no the realization he is NOT good enough.

But us fans?

No we desperately try to claim that he is bigger than he actually is.

At the end of the day T20 leagues hire big players by NAME and hope they will PERFORM.

Did Umar perform ? No

Is he fit? No

Should he be inducted ? Yes, because he is talent (Pakistani train of thought).

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Fitness isn't everything. But some teams want to make a point of it.

I can definitely understand playing unfit players (like Gayle). The question isn't 'fit vs unfit' but how many runs that fitness costs and whether it is compensated by other skills.

Maybe Lahore and Pakistan have different views on that.

Except it isn't compensated in Umar's case.

Do you know his average has been in free fall for so many years?

Do you know his stats in CPL , the country where he was supposed to tour?

Maybe Pakistan has a good idea about his actual skill unlike people who just jump up and down at a beautiful 6 after 10 matches?

 

[Slog]

Well you may have had a case if his team didnt finish dead last and Umar Akmal had't had a terrible outing

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Except it isn't compensated in Umar's case.

Do you know his average has been in free fall for so many years?

Do you know his stats in CPL , the country where he was supposed to tour?

Maybe Pakistan has a good idea about his actual skill unlike people who just jump up and down at a beautiful 6 after 10 matches?

I'm just explaining that fitness is not everything. I agree he hasn't performed well and should be dropped on merit.

 

[Big Mac]

Lahore Qalandar's are a private institution with the sole purpose of making money and winning the PSL along with promoting their brand. They would do so by only playing the best players to maximize the performance of their team. Umar Akmal was amongst their main players and played every game of the PSL despite being "unfit". Hence, the Qalandar's owner's and management thought junior was necessary to their aims of winning.

OR he was necessary to their aims of promoting their brand, which isn't necessarily achieved via the same means as you'd achieve winning the PSL. Look at Islamabad Utd, they won last year and in a straw poll on PP they were easily the least 'promotable' or 'interesting' team despite being the champions.

That's why Chris Gayle will continue to get paid well in Mickey Mouse leagues across the globe even if he doesn't perform for a year or two, teams view him as being marketable regardless of whether he can perform consistently. It's no surprise that he also ended up in the Lahore squad. Umar Akmal is the same, if he spent less time on his twitter fashion show and a bit more time worrying about cricket then maybe Lahore wouldn't have finished bottom of the table and Junior might start showcasing that "talent" we keep hearing about.

If he could play an entire PSL surely he is fit enough to play a T20 series int he WI right?

 

[in_cutter]

I am by no means an Umar Akmal apologist but would like to question the PCB's train of thought here.

Lahore Qalandar's are a private institution with the sole purpose of making money and winning the PSL along with promoting their brand. They would do so by only playing the best players to maximize the performance of their team. Umar Akmal was amongst their main players and played every game of the PSL despite being "unfit". Hence, the Qalandar's owner's and management thought junior was necessary to their aims of winning.

Now the PCB has more altruistic goals like promoting young talent, spreading cricket throughout the country and ensuring cricketing sustainability along with more tangible goals like winning consistently and having a strong performing national team.

How come Umar Akmal suddenly is not "fit" enough to play a T20 series when he just played an entire PSL tournament under a far more cutthroat institution? ODI's I can maybe understand but T20's??

If he could play an entire PSL surely he is fit enough to play a T20 series int he WI right?

Maybe because there is a huge difference in being selected for pyjama tournament & Int'l cricket..?

 

[sshakir411]

well Qalandars is the weakest PSL team..they've proved it twice now...maybe if they selected fitter players that wouldn't be the case.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

The argument well and truly crashes down when you consider that Lahore is probably the worst T20 franchise in the short history that this type of cricket holds. They were ranked bottom of a 5 table team TWICE in consecutive years at Dubai and Sharjah pitches.....

No wonder they had dross like Umar Akmal and Sohail Tanvir in their lineup

 

[Syed1]

In case you didn't notice the Qalandars came dead last and talented Umar Akmal only had one innings of note in the 8 chances he got.


Umar Akmal had a big hand in LQ flopping like no tomorrow.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

I am by no means an Umar Akmal apologist but would like to question the PCB's train of thought here.

Lahore Qalandar's are a private institution with the sole purpose of making money and winning the PSL along with promoting their brand. They would do so by only playing the best players to maximize the performance of their team. Umar Akmal was amongst their main players and played every game of the PSL despite being "unfit". Hence, the Qalandar's owner's and management thought junior was necessary to their aims of winning.

Now the PCB has more altruistic goals like promoting young talent, spreading cricket throughout the country and ensuring cricketing sustainability along with more tangible goals like winning consistently and having a strong performing national team.

How come Umar Akmal suddenly is not "fit" enough to play a T20 series when he just played an entire PSL tournament under a far more cutthroat institution? ODI's I can maybe understand but T20's??

If he could play an entire PSL surely he is fit enough to play a T20 series int he WI right?

He can't perform to his potential because his fitness level is below par. For example a less than fit Usain Bolt can still run but he will not be winning anything. So Umar Akmal can play but his performance will be substandard. This is different than being injured.

 

[Adil_94]

they kept playing Umar because he was one of the marquee home grown players and he is a big name. T20 leagues care more about having big names to attract crowds. Gayle was suffering from injuries and loss of form but KK kept picking him because hes a big name. They would rather pick Umar over an unknown domestic batsman or use one of their 4 Intl players to replaces Umar. The standards required for Intl cricket are completely different.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Lahore Qalandar's are a private institution with the sole purpose of making money and winning the PSL along with promoting their brand. They would do so by only playing the best players to maximize the performance of their team. Umar Akmal was amongst their main players and played every game of the PSL despite being "unfit". Hence, the Qalandar's owner's and management thought junior was necessary to their aims of winning.

Did Lahore have Mohammad Hafeez, Babar Azam, or Shoaib Malik to play ahead of him?

 

[msb314]

Well you may have had a case if his team didnt finish dead last and Umar Akmal had't had a terrible outing

well Qalandars is the weakest PSL team..they've proved it twice now...maybe if they selected fitter players that wouldn't be the case.

The argument well and truly crashes down when you consider that Lahore is probably the worst T20 franchise in the short history that this type of cricket holds. They were ranked bottom of a 5 table team TWICE in consecutive years at Dubai and Sharjah pitches.....

No wonder they had dross like Umar Akmal and Sohail Tanvir in their lineup

In case you didn't notice the Qalandars came dead last and talented Umar Akmal only had one innings of note in the 8 chances he got.


Umar Akmal had a big hand in LQ flopping like no tomorrow.

This thread is not about Qalandar's or Umar Akmal's performances.

It is strictly about fitness - if he is fit enough to play an entire season of PSL - why can he not play 4 T20's against WI IF dropped on fitness grounds?

 

[Rayyman]

LQ probably played him because he was the leading scorer last year and is the home-town boy for them.

 

[msb314]

LQ probably played him because he was the leading scorer last year and is the home-town boy for them.

But if he had poor fitness and was struggling for form - shouldn't they have dropped him after a weeks game to work on his fitness?

 

[Rayyman]

But if he had poor fitness and was struggling for form - shouldn't they have dropped him after a weeks game to work on his fitness?

No lol they don't care about fitness. This isn't real cricket you are talking about, it's just meaningless Mickey Mouse games.

 

[Mamoon]

In hindsight, it safe to assume that Qalandars erred. Umar was rubbish in the PSL.

 

[Professor]

But if he had poor fitness and was struggling for form - shouldn't they have dropped him after a weeks game to work on his fitness?

Well lets say LQ made a mistake(which is reflected by their performance), should PCB repeat the same mistake? If anything we should be commending the PCB for being more professional than LQ was.

 

[Big Mac]

This thread is not about Qalandar's or Umar Akmal's performances.

It is strictly about fitness - if he is fit enough to play an entire season of PSL - why can he not play 4 T20's against WI IF dropped on fitness grounds?

I am going to play an entire season of club cricket this summer and let me be the first to tell you, I am nowhere near the fitness required to play ONE T20 against the Windies, much less four.

 

[Slog]

This thread is not about Qalandar's or Umar Akmal's performances.

It is strictly about fitness - if he is fit enough to play an entire season of PSL - why can he not play 4 T20's against WI IF dropped on fitness grounds?

Wilfully playing dumb doesn't fool anyone

The reason Umar Akmal sucked and Lahore Qalandars finished dead last was perhaps due to the fact that they picked unfit players like Akmal who should never have been on the field

 

[kingusama92]

Multiple reasons at play.

1) Umar Akmal had a good 1st season with Lahore Qalandars.
2) Names matter with domestic tournaments (i.e. star power)
3) Domestic cricket is 2-3 steps below international cricket in player quality

Let's not forget Lahore selecting him backfired. He performed poorly and they got knocked out. Doesn't say much about their decision to retain him now does it?

 

[msb314]

Wilfully playing dumb doesn't fool anyone

The reason Umar Akmal sucked and Lahore Qalandars finished dead last was perhaps due to the fact that they picked unfit players like Akmal who should never have been on the field

Was Umar Akmal's poor form due to fitness? Was he running out of breath every time he was batting. Was his fielding shoddy due to fatigue?

I don't know the answer to these questions but if yes - your argument holds weight.

If not - Umar Akmal may have had several mental lapses that he usually does throughout the tournament which is completely unrelated to fitness.

Form and fitness in T20's can be related but can be mutually exclusive as well.

 

[msb314]

In hindsight, it safe to assume that Qalandars erred. Umar was rubbish in the PSL.

The question is was it due to form or fitness (or both)?

 

[Mamoon]

The question is was it due to form or fitness (or both)?

Probably both, look out of touch and out of shape. The most noticeable difference has been the number of dot balls he plays these days. Strike rotation has been a strength of his, but he is not able to steal quick singles and doubles anymore.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Qalandars played gayle who can hardly bend down and touch his feet.

 

[sshakir411]

This thread is not about Qalandar's or Umar Akmal's performances.

It is strictly about fitness - if he is fit enough to play an entire season of PSL - why can he not play 4 T20's against WI IF dropped on fitness grounds?

and how are you sure that he was 100% fit during the PSL? Maybe the dip in form was because he wasn't fit enough to play at 50% to 80% capacity day in day out and hence why totally sucked throughout the tournament? Just because he played each game you can't say he was fit. He failed the fitness test that everyone else passed (apparently)..tells me he has no stamina since the yo yo test is for endurance.

 

[Slog]

Qalandars played gayle who can hardly bend down and touch his feet.

Gayle was in Karachi

 

[JibranAnsari]

Gayle was in Karachi

I mean one of the teams played him.

 

[Syed1]

Kohli was a good batsman but when he achieved his present level of fitness he became a monster.


Fitness and performance go hand in hand. If you are unfit it means that your body has more fat content than it needs and less fast twitch muscles. This means instead of coming out on the front foot and smoking the ball through covers, you would be late on it by just a split second and would be struck plumb infront.

 

[cricketindiafan]

This shows you the difference between a T20 team that is merely looking at gathering all the "name" players into their team and an international team that is looking to play the best available players.

Did the Qalanders have a fitness camp? I'm sure all these retirees, fringe players and past greats are in no great physical shape. Yet they routinely make the big IPL and Big Bash teams. Umar Akmal making the Lahore side is no big deal and definitely does not prove that he has been hard done by.

A simpler answer would have been - T20 leagues are a notch below international standards and the same gets reflected in fitness requirements of players as well. Every nation's FC/domestic cricket has countless 'fat' cricketets who will never ever make even the A sides but carry on playing FC cricket for years.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Did Lahore have Mohammad Hafeez, Babar Azam, or Shoaib Malik to play ahead of him?

[MENTION=137804]msb314[/MENTION]?

 

[shaz619]

True Umar Akmal was important in Lahore Qalandars winning the PSL this year, it was an inspired selection despite his fitness issues which didn't affect his performance at all

 

[ask_analyse_act]

But if he had poor fitness and was struggling for form - shouldn't they have dropped him after a weeks game to work on his fitness?

started a thread without any solid point to defend UA ... now running around here and there....

LQ played him just KK played gayle thinking that one day he will make it count and make them win and also to do justice for the money he was bought for, gayle fired once same as UA .... In the end both teams failed and KK were the last one to qualify too... sorry the national side is above UA... fit vs unfit; use vs no use; win vs lose;...

UA is unfit..

 

[Bilal7]

A simpler answer would have been - T20 leagues are a notch below international standards and the same gets reflected in fitness requirements of players as well. Every nation's FC/domestic cricket has countless 'fat' cricketets who will never ever make even the A sides but carry on playing FC cricket for years.

Yes, well said. Does OP think that Ajmal, Rafatullah, Zulfiqar Babar and the host of retired cricketers playing in the PCL are all fit?

 

[msb314]

[MENTION=137804]msb314[/MENTION]?

No they didn't - but could still have dropped him in order to play Delport, Grant Elliot, Rizwan etc. But they chose to stick by him despite being "unfit"

 

[Syed1]

No they didn't - but could still have dropped him in order to play Delport, Grant Elliot, Rizwan etc. But they chose to stick by him despite being "unfit"

All three were already playing WITH Akmal in the side.


How hard of a concept is it to understand?


LQ didn't play Umar Akmal because he was some sort of paragon of fitness, they played him because he was the highest scorer of last year's PSL and was also a local Lahore hero. In hindsight it was an awful decision because Akmal then proceeded to fail in 7 out of 8 innings.

 

[msb314]

All three were already playing WITH Akmal in the side.


How hard of a concept is it to understand?


LQ didn't play Umar Akmal because he was some sort of paragon of fitness, they played him because he was the highest scorer of last year's PSL and was also a local Lahore hero. In hindsight it was an awful decision because Akmal then proceeded to fail in 7 out of 8 innings.

Check your facts.

Delport hardly played in the PSL this year.

 

[Professor]

Check your facts.

Delport hardly played in the PSL this year.

Delport is a foreign player and because of the limit of 4 foreigners per team, his competition was with Elliot not Akmal. Also Rizwan played every game didn't he, so how would he be a replacement for Akmal?

 

[msb314]

T20 league standards are far below international T20 team standards. Why are you even arguing this point?

Multiple reasons at play.

1) Umar Akmal had a good 1st season with Lahore Qalandars.
2) Names matter with domestic tournaments (i.e. star power)
3) Domestic cricket is 2-3 steps below international cricket in player quality

Let's not forget Lahore selecting him backfired. He performed poorly and they got knocked out. Doesn't say much about their decision to retain him now does it?

Debatable due to the fact that is not some random Faysal Bank T20 team we are talking about. The PSL has many top players and foreign stars - some of which were respectable great batsman from their countries. These PSL franchises have top coaches like Paddy Upton, Dean Jones, Mickey Arthur and top mentors like Viv Richards and Sanga so the standards and expectations are very high too.

I think it is more of a case of Qalandar's willing to compromise on fitness due to the firepower that Umar Akmal possesses. Yes - star power is also a factor but in a T20 game - a batsman who can hit the big shots is highly valuable even if he struggles in other aspects of his game.

I guess our national team had different criteria when selecting their T20 squad.

 

[Professor]

Debatable due to the fact that is not some random Faysal Bank T20 team we are talking about. The PSL has many top players and foreign stars - some of which were respectable great batsman from their countries. These PSL franchises have top coaches like Paddy Upton, Dean Jones, Mickey Arthur and top mentors like Viv Richards and Sanga so the standards and expectations are very high too.

I think it is more of a case of Qalandar's willing to compromise on fitness due to the firepower that Umar Akmal possesses. Yes - star power is also a factor but in a T20 game - a batsman who can hit the big shots is highly valuable even if he struggles in other aspects of his game.

I guess our national team had different criteria when selecting their T20 squad.

I am going to repeat my question from earlier, isn't it good that our National team has different criteria than a team that finished last in every competition they have been in? Shouldn't we be commending PCB rather than questioning them?

 

[msb314]

I am going to repeat my question from earlier, isn't it good that our National team has different criteria than a team that finished last in every competition they have been in? Shouldn't we be commending PCB rather than questioning them?

Depends on how well we do - I will reserve my judgement after the WI series but I think we are lacking firepower and will struggle to cross 150.

 

[adzzy786]

I find it hilarious that people think Junior is fine to play and this is some sort of conspiracy.

It's clear he is unfit, you don't even need to have a fitness camp you can clearly see it! The guy is a lazy cricketer with a bad attitude and quite rightly dropped. If he can work on his fitness and not be so lazy about it and if he does well in domestic cricket then call him back but up until then good ridiance!

Fitness is under rated in Pakistan they believe this thing called talent is the solution to everything, clearly not we are no longer in the 80's, 90'a and 00's the game has grown and moved on since then. The game is a lot more intense, we play a lot more matches, all the best players are fit and work hard on their fitness. The truth is A lot of Pakistani players are lazy and hence fitness isn't important to them. For those who don't understand being fit doesn't mean being built like a tank it means being having high fitness levels in stamina and strength with plenty of cardiovascular training.

 

[Bilal7]

Debatable due to the fact that is not some random Faysal Bank T20 team we are talking about. The PSL has many top players and foreign stars - some of which were respectable great batsman from their countries. These PSL franchises have top coaches like Paddy Upton, Dean Jones, Mickey Arthur and top mentors like Viv Richards and Sanga so the standards and expectations are very high too.

I think it is more of a case of Qalandar's willing to compromise on fitness due to the firepower that Umar Akmal possesses. Yes - star power is also a factor but in a T20 game - a batsman who can hit the big shots is highly valuable even if he struggles in other aspects of his game.

I guess our national team had different criteria when selecting their T20 squad.

Only the best 15 players from Pakistan can make the squad, ensuring that no unfit player makes it. How many Pakistani players were playing in the PSL. I'm sorry but you really don't have an argument here. Umar Akmal was rightfully dropped, end of story.