What's new

If we were all atheists?

Well that’s convinced me that Islam is the truth.

I was also referring to Islamic “scholars”. It’s obviously best to seek knowledge from someone who has a vested interest in recruiting you. And your radical idea is that you shouldn’t ask anyone else.

Here’s, a novel idea! Why don’t you analyse all the available information?

When you do, it becomes very apparent that this whole thing is all smokes and mirrors conjured up to serve the needs of the centralised elites.

I am guessing you left Islam or not very practicing.

No amount of evidence can convince you if that is the case. Let's agree to disagree.

I don't believe Islam came from "centralized elites". I had many questions and I got all my answers. I fully believe this is from God.
 
I am guessing you left Islam or not very practicing.

No amount of evidence can convince you if that is the case. Let's agree to disagree.

I don't believe Islam came from "centralized elites". I had many questions and I got all my answers. I fully believe this is from God.

No I’m not going to agree to disagree.

But it’s been established that you only used bias sources. So, your belief is on a false pretence.
 
I get it the feeling that there was no time before the BB is difficult, and emotionally unsatisfying.

But the universe is flying apart, faster and faster, and we have hard evidence of the BB so the steady state theory is debunked.

Would you prefer the oscillating universe hypothesis? Good old Penrose has advanced this idea of late.

I am not bothered by weather something is satisfying or not. The universe is the way it is.

The steady state universe doesn't hold as you say, because the data showed that universe is not uniform in time. The density of the early universe was much higher than it is now. But that is not the only model with an eternal universe.

So yes, the universe is expanding and it was much more dense in the past. If you keep on going backwards, the universe keeps getting denser and smaller, leading to a region of infinite density. There are theories that do match exactly with the data (say starting after a second from the bang). Before those moments however, we have no idea what happened.


The idea that universe had a definite beginning uses General Relativity to draw that conclusion. But GR is wrong, it breaks down at the big bang (or any such high density regions) and there is the fact that it doesn't work with quantum mechanics. So there is no reason to trust it's conclusions in those regimes.

Untill we get a quantum theory of gravity, we can't really say much about what the structure of spacetime was back at the start.

It could very well be that the universe had a true beginning, as Hawkings, Penrose and others have said.

But it could also be that the universe is eternal. Most quantum gravity theories don't predict a beginning. And in cosmology more and more models have an eternal universe, eternal inflation being quite a popular one.

I guess I am more inclined towards the idea that the universe is eternal, from what little I have learnt of the subject. Some of the questions, like the nature of gravity, of dark enegry or the conditions of the early universe (why was the entropy so low, inflation, etc) naturally lead to the universe being always there.
 
Last edited:
So have we reached a common verdict that the world would be free of war if we were all atheists?. Just tell me the result minus to details:smith
 
Last edited:
So have we reached a common verdict that the world would be free of war if we were all atheists?. Just tell me the result minus to details:smith

Bhai no one cares about the thread title, we're just here to demonstrate our intellectual superiority :yk :srt :P
 
So have we reached a common verdict that the world would be free of war if we were all atheists?. Just tell me the result minus to details:smith

The result is that people should learn to behave like a human being before they attribute a label to themselves.

Once you allow those who wish to maintain centralised control, to ”otherise” people then it’s a lot easier persecute them.
 
Don't worry, it is happening. Atheism is the largest growing belief (or lack of belief actually) in the world. By 3000, science will completely replace religion.

People have lost interest in religion because it brings nothing to the table. Religious people are the biggest hypocrites, they can't even practice 50% of what they believe. Religious beliefs and practices are all outdated and lack any logic.

Religion forces you to practice things which may have been suitable a millennium or two ago. Does religion really need to tell you how to drink water or what to recite after using the restroom?

Atheism is part of human evolution. The more humans learn about this universe and their own reality, the more they will distance themselves from religion.
 
I don’t have a problem with Atheists but i do have a problem with New Atheists who aren’t any different from the religious fundamentalists in Pakistan.
 
You have to remember one thing. Ex muslims love these sort of threads because their aim is for users to vindicate their decision to abandon Islam because they continue to live in doubt.

It's sheer delightful entertainment. On one side Muslims full of conviction, on the other ex muslims full of doubt.
 
You have to remember one thing. Ex muslims love these sort of threads because their aim is for users to vindicate their decision to abandon Islam because they continue to live in doubt.

It's sheer delightful entertainment. On one side Muslims full of conviction, on the other ex muslims full of doubt.

Sure!

You’ve caught us out. Oh no!

You really are Mr IH.

I’m in doubt about flying human-donkey hybrids, shooting stars being arrows, the earth being flat and beating women.


It all seems so true but I refuse to believe. I’m drowning in doubt.


On a side note: being full of conviction equates to?
 
I don’t have a problem with Atheists but i do have a problem with New Atheists who aren’t any different from the religious fundamentalists in Pakistan.

I agree that’s true of a significant proportion of the new atheist movement but not all.
 
Imagine if you are atheist.

1. You do not waste your time in meaningless prayers in which you just go through the motions 5 times a day.

2. You do not keep yourself hungry and thirsty for 30 days every year.

3. You do not spend your hard-earned money on building and running mosques (though God does not need your money, yet he can't build his own place of worship).

4. You do not make Saudi Arabia rich by spending thousands on pilgrimage.

5. You can eat whatever you want, no restrictions on alcohol, pork, etc.

6. You can wear whatever you want, no problem with wearing a swimsuit on a beach.

7. You do not live under the constant fear of hell and getting punished for smallest of mistakes.

8. You do not hold onto ancient practices which are completely irrelevant and useless in these times.
 
You have to remember one thing. Ex muslims love these sort of threads because their aim is for users to vindicate their decision to abandon Islam because they continue to live in doubt.

It's sheer delightful entertainment. On one side Muslims full of conviction, on the other ex muslims full of doubt.

Stay happy with your conviction and wasting your life following some useless rules while I enjoy bashing religions while enjoying an ice cold can of Heineken. See, how much we atheist are suffering!
 
Imagine if you are atheist.

1. You do not waste your time in meaningless prayers in which you just go through the motions 5 times a day.

2. You do not keep yourself hungry and thirsty for 30 days every year.

3. You do not spend your hard-earned money on building and running mosques (though God does not need your money, yet he can't build his own place of worship).

4. You do not make Saudi Arabia rich by spending thousands on pilgrimage.

5. You can eat whatever you want, no restrictions on alcohol, pork, etc.

6. You can wear whatever you want, no problem with wearing a swimsuit on a beach.

7. You do not live under the constant fear of hell and getting punished for smallest of mistakes.

8. You do not hold onto ancient practices which are completely irrelevant and useless in these times.

That’s fine but humans need spirituality in their lives, something that atheism can’t provide which is why people are finding new ways of coping with reality, for example by becoming hardcore ’nationalists’, ’socialists’ etc. In fact, this biological need of spirituality is why Neo-Paganism and the revival of polytheism is booming in Europe.

Also, most of our values(even secular ones)
originates from religion itself. What will ’atheistic’ morality look like?
 
Atheists live like animals. They do not have any purpose.

Muslims have one purpose and that is to worship God.

We will see who is right when we all die.
 
That’s his opinion, i thought atheists were open minded people who welcomed pluralism. Once again, new atheists are exactly the same as religious fundamentalists. None of you are tolerant to difference of opinions.

Oh you seem to have me mistaken with someone else.

I don’t tolerate bigotry. I’m not here to try to beguile you with imagery of love. I could care less what you believe. I care about how you act and if that impacts negatively on others, then I have a problem with you.

Nice ad hominem but unfortunately it’s not going to work.

The only thing I’ll be welcoming your bigotry with is my right hand.
 
Atheists live like animals. They do not have any purpose.

Muslims have one purpose and that is to worship God.

We will see who is right when we all die.

Well, technically you wouldn’t.

I mean what do you remember from before you were born?
 
That’s fine but humans need spirituality in their lives, something that atheism can’t provide which is why people are finding new ways of coping with reality, for example by becoming hardcore ’nationalists’, ’socialists’ etc. In fact, this biological need of spirituality is why Neo-Paganism and the revival of polytheism is booming in Europe.

Also, most of our values(even secular ones)
originates from religion itself. What will ’atheistic’ morality look like?

What nonsense!

Please show a shred of proof that we got our morals from religion.
 
What nonsense!

Please show a shred of proof that we got our morals from religion.

Most of our moral code originates from religion. Where else did it come from?
Ex. Do not sleep with thy neighbours wife, do not kill innocents etc.

Our ancestors killed each other for food, thought stealing was fine. It was religion that civilized us.

If not religion, where did our morals come from? You tell me.
 
Most of our moral code originates from religion. Where else did it come from?
Ex. Do not sleep with thy neighbours wife, do not kill innocents etc.

Our ancestors killed each other for food, thought stealing was fine. It was religion that civilized us.

If not religion, where did our morals come from? You tell me.

Once again please provide a shred of proof.

Please.

You’ve claimed quite a bit there so a shred should be easy.
 
Once again please provide a shred of proof.

Please.

You’ve claimed quite a bit there so a shred should be easy.

Most of my beliefs regarding the correlation between religion and morality comes from the works of Friedrich Nietzche(Sorry for the spelling) in his books ”The Gay Science” and ”Thus spoke Zarathustra”.

An example of how religion influenced modern day morality:

Nietzche pointed out that earlier civilizations like the Greeks didn’t actually think humility was a virtue because a good man will never do anything wrong.

But religions like Christianity and Judaism value humility because of a ”slave mentality” that was common amongst the early Isrealites and the Jews when they were under Egyptian and later on Roman occupation.

Modern humans think humility is a virtue and we probably wouldn’t have thought of humility as a virtue if it weren’t for the Abrahamic religions.

Now answer my question: Where did our morals come from, if not from religion?
 
Last edited:
That’s fine but humans need spirituality in their lives, something that atheism can’t provide which is why people are finding new ways of coping with reality, for example by becoming hardcore ’nationalists’, ’socialists’ etc. In fact, this biological need of spirituality is why Neo-Paganism and the revival of polytheism is booming in Europe.

Also, most of our values(even secular ones)
originates from religion itself. What will ’atheistic’ morality look like?

First of all define spiritualism. As an atheist, I do not even accept in the spiritual world, so spirituality means nothing to me and my fellow atheists.

Second, how can you make a claim that morality comes from religion? The same morality which Lot (Loot) used to present his daughters for rape to save his male guests?
 
Atheists live like animals. They do not have any purpose.

Muslims have one purpose and that is to worship God.

We will see who is right when we all die.

Atheist live like animals and that is why most of the learned people, scholars, and scientists in the world are atheists.
 
First of all define spiritualism. As an atheist, I do not even accept in the spiritual world, so spirituality means nothing to me and my fellow atheists.

Second, how can you make a claim that morality comes from religion? The same morality which Lot (Loot) used to present his daughters for rape to save his male guests?

I’m not even religious myself, i’m just not convinced that atheism can replace other belief systems. Most likely, new religions/belief systems will emerge that are more in touch with the modern age.

Look at my previous comment regarding morality.
 
I’m not even religious myself, i’m just not convinced that atheism can replace other belief systems. Most likely, new religions/belief systems will emerge that are more in touch with the modern age.

Look at my previous comment regarding morality.

Internet has brought cultures together. A kid in China will have the same beliefs about life as a kid in the US. I think, humans have figured out most of the values, for example, murder, stealing, etc are considered evil in all cultures regardless of their beliefs.
 
Most of my beliefs regarding the correlation between religion and morality comes from the works of Friedrich Nietzche(Sorry for the spelling) in his books ”The Gay Science” and ”Thus spoke Zarathustra”.

An example of how religion influenced modern day morality:

Nietzche pointed out that earlier civilizations like the Greeks didn’t actually think humility was a virtue because a good man will never do anything wrong.

But religions like Christianity and Judaism value humility because of a ”slave mentality” that was common amongst the early Isrealites and the Jews when they were under Egyptian and later on Roman occupation.

Modern humans think humility is a virtue and we probably wouldn’t have thought of humility as a virtue if it weren’t for the Abrahamic religions.

Now answer my question: Where did our morals come from, if not from religion?

So, where is the proof? There was a lot waffle.

It’s not difficult.

To your question. I think it’s a necessary evolutionary development.

As much as your fairy tales will have you believe that we were savages killing and raping and then god clicked his fingers and suddenly people became civilised.

Humans are social creatures. We cannot survive in isolation. Our strength along with a higher cognitive function is our ability to build social networks. You can’t build a secure network when we can’t trust one another. Thus, the golden rule principle.

Our morals are based on reducing harm and suffering and we developed societies by providing such security. The earliest civilisations realised this and thus the concept of morals.

Also, there is empathy. You and I know what pain is. We know what suffering is. To differing degrees but we know it isn’t pleasant and we wouldn’t like to see others to be subjected to it either. An evolutionary trait.

How ignorant must one be to think we only developed empathy after we discovered religion? It’s laughable.

Religions simply canonised some of these. Yet, the morality spin is tipped on its head when you realise that religion has canonised vile behaviours and acts as being moral. Yes, slavery, rape and domestic violence.
 
The result is that people should learn to behave like a human being before they attribute a label to themselves.

Once you allow those who wish to maintain centralised control, to ”otherise” people then it’s a lot easier persecute them.

You can not be a good human being if there is injustice. This is why in Islam justice is given priority over everything else.
 
Bhai no one cares about the thread title, we're just here to demonstrate our intellectual superiority :yk :srt :P

So the thread has been hijacked and turned in to something else. Enjoy, I don't participate in this one:shafiq2
 
I have never met an atheist Pakistani before until I visited this forum. It really surprised me. All of my real life Pakistani friends are either quite religious or at least believers.
 
Internet has brought cultures together. A kid in China will have the same beliefs about life as a kid in the US. I think, humans have figured out most of the values, for example, murder, stealing, etc are considered evil in all cultures regardless of their beliefs.

Murder is only considered bad if you aren't military, armies go around murdering and raping and people are proud of them. Indian Army in Kashmir, US army anywhere are good examples
 
An example of how religion influenced modern day morality:

Nietzche pointed out that earlier civilizations like the Greeks didn’t actually think humility was a virtue because a good man will never do anything wrong.

But religions like Christianity and Judaism value humility because of a ”slave mentality” that was common amongst the early Isrealites and the Jews when they were under Egyptian and later on Roman occupation.

Modern humans think humility is a virtue and we probably wouldn’t have thought of humility as a virtue if it weren’t for the Abrahamic religions.

That's not entirely true. The roots of Hinduism are replete with stories of arrogance being the downfall of a character. In fact, most of Indian spirituality focuses on conquering ego.
 
Oh, thank you for your validation.

Save me your apologetics.

What apologetic's you on about!? I am a Muslim and will continue to be one! If you are dumb enough to compare life from 10 thousand years back to today then I have to question your sanity.
 
What apologetic's you on about!? I am a Muslim and will continue to be one! If you are dumb enough to compare life from 10 thousand years back to today then I have to question your sanity.

This apologetics.
 
What apologetic's you on about!? I am a Muslim and will continue to be one! If you are dumb enough to compare life from 10 thousand years back to today then I have to question your sanity.

10 thousand years back?

And you have the temerity to call me dumb?
 
10 thousand years back?

And you have the temerity to call me dumb?

Yes you are dumb with comments like Islam endorses slavery. You seem to be talking about 10 thousand years back in history or something with your nonsensical views.
 
Yes you are dumb with comments like Islam endorses slavery. You seem to be talking about 10 thousand years back in history or something with your nonsensical views.

Islam was introduced 10,000 years ago?

You learn something knew everyday.
 
You made it for me, even when I told you not waste my time.

Apologetics for slavery when preaching justice. You can’t make it up.

You are acting like only Arabia had slavery. It was a norm back then; ancient China, ancient Greece, ancient Egypt - they all had it. Slavery also existed in places like Mexico, Asia, Europe etc.

We are discussing about a period when these things were normal. Not sure why you are failing to see it.
 
You are acting like only Arabia had slavery. It was a norm back then; ancient China, ancient Greece, ancient Egypt - they all had it. Slavery also existed in places like Mexico, Asia, Europe etc.

We are discussing about a period when these things were normal. Not sure why you are failing to see it.

What part of save me your apologetics don’t you understand?

It’s one of the most atrocious human rights violations ever.

Are you saying Muhammad and Islam is no better than the rest you’ve mentioned?


Do those periods of time in those other countries considered the golden age to be followed for eternity like you do with you Islam?

Come on boys, at least puts some effort in to your gymnastics.
 
What part of save me your apologetics don’t you understand?

It’s one of the most atrocious human rights violations ever.

Are you saying Muhammad and Islam is no better than the rest you’ve mentioned?


Do those periods of time in those other countries considered the golden age to be followed for eternity like you do with you Islam?

Come on boys, at least puts some effort in to your gymnastics.

Islam actually prohibited mistreatment of slaves. According to Islamic law, a slave needed to be treated with dignity and compassion; there was absolutely no room for injustice. Furthermore, Islam always encouraged freeing of slaves.

Here is one hadith:

Abu Musa Al-Ashari reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:

أَطْعِمُوا الْجَائِعَ وَعُودُوا الْمَرِيضَ وَفُكُّوا الْعَانِيَ

Feed the hungry, visit the sick, and set the slaves free.

Here is a verse from Quran:

Allah said:

فَلَا اقْتَحَمَ الْعَقَبَةَ وَمَا أَدْرَاكَ مَا الْعَقَبَةُ فَكُّ رَقَبَةٍ

But he has not broken through the difficult path, and what will make you know what is the difficult path? It is the freeing of a slave.

Surah Al-Balad 90:11-13

You need to understand that it was not easy at that time to abolish slavery. Slaves were like modern day cell phones; everyone had it. Islam couldn't just come in and ban it outright; they had to do things slowly and gradually.

Drinking alcohol was fine too during early days of Islam. It became prohibited later on. Islamic laws didn't come in one day; it arrived slowly and gradually (over a period of many years). Islam was a practical way of life and it is still a practical way of life.
 
Mr ih!

Sure it’s doesn’t.

As a bitter ex Muslim you are on here always asking for evidence/proof. Now you have made a claim

"m in doubt about flying human-donkey hybrids, shooting stars being arrows, the earth being flat and beating women."

How about you take a teaspoon of your own medicine Doctor No and show some evidence for your claims?
 
As a bitter ex Muslim you are on here always asking for evidence/proof. Now you have made a claim

"m in doubt about flying human-donkey hybrids, shooting stars being arrows, the earth being flat and beating women."

How about you take a teaspoon of your own medicine Doctor No and show some evidence for your claims?

Shooting Stars are Arrows as per Islam and Prophet Muhammed went to heaven on a Flying Horse-Donkey Hybrid. Are you denying this also?
 
Islam actually prohibited mistreatment of slaves. According to Islamic law, a slave needed to be treated with dignity and compassion; there was absolutely no room for injustice. Furthermore, Islam always encouraged freeing of slaves.

Here is one hadith:



Here is a verse from Quran:



You need to understand that it was not easy at that time to abolish slavery. Slaves were like modern day cell phones; everyone had it. Islam couldn't just come in and ban it outright; they had to do things slowly and gradually.

Drinking alcohol was fine too during early days of Islam. It became prohibited later on. Islamic laws didn't come in one day; it arrived slowly and gradually (over a period of many years). Islam was a practical way of life and it is still a practical way of life.

Can you provide the links for the above?
 
Can you provide the links for the above?

Your primary goal is to bait Muslims and sow division. We see through you and we know what you are up to.

I already mentioned in another thread that I am not interested to discuss Islam with you further. It is because you are extremely thick in the head and you show blatant disrespect to Muslims and Islam.

https://abuaminaelias.com/an-nawawi-on-the-virtue-of-freeing-slaves/
https://quran.com/90/11-13
https://www.quranandscience.com/featured-articles/341-alcohol-in-islam#1

These are common Islamic knowledge, BTW.
 
Your primary goal is to bait Muslims and sow division. We see through you and we know what you are up to.

I already mentioned in another thread that I am not interested to discuss Islam with you further. It is because you are extremely thick in the head and you show blatant disrespect to Muslims and Islam.

https://abuaminaelias.com/an-nawawi-on-the-virtue-of-freeing-slaves/
https://quran.com/90/11-13
https://www.quranandscience.com/featured-articles/341-alcohol-in-islam#1

These are common Islamic knowledge, BTW.

Accha! I am trying to divide Muslims. :))

You conveniently included the word Slaves when it is not there.

Here is the Hadith from Bukhari.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 282 :
Narrated by Abu Musa
The Prophet said, "Free the captives, feed the hungry and pay a visit to the sick."

As you see, it says free Captives. Captives are not slaves. They are war booty. Slaves can also be purchased from market in auction.
 
Accha! I am trying to divide Muslims. :))

You conveniently included the word Slaves when it is not there.

Here is the Hadith from Bukhari.
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 282 :
Narrated by Abu Musa
The Prophet said, "Free the captives, feed the hungry and pay a visit to the sick."

As you see, it says free Captives. Captives are not slaves. They are war booty. Slaves can also be purchased from market in auction.

I rest my case.

This is what happens when a non-Muslim tries to learn Islam from Google.

I am not going to dignify this reply with a response.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I rest my case.

This is what happens when a non-Muslim tries to learn Islam from Google.

I am not going to dignity this reply with a response.

Ahahaha!

Like you know how to read Arabic. I posted from Sahin Bukari. It does not say Slaves. It says Captives.

Also, the link you posted - https://abuaminaelias.com/an-nawawi-...reeing-slaves/
Here it is talking about Muslim Slaves. Not non-believer.

Nice try.
 
Islam was introduced 10,000 years ago?

You learn something knew everyday.

Talking about the Prophet(SAW) here not Islam. You have learnt this today, I am not saying he lived then but was just giving an example with that number.
 
You made it for me, even when I told you not waste my time.

Apologetics for slavery when preaching justice. You can’t make it up.

Then why do you keep replying thereby exposing your ignorance?. Slavery does not always mean being beaten up pink and blue as you seem to think. Muslim's are also called "The slaves of Allah as well".
 
Shooting Stars are Arrows as per Islam and Prophet Muhammed went to heaven on a Flying Horse-Donkey Hybrid. Are you denying this also?

Yes, we have been here before and I have shown your understanding is simply wrong. No need to waste time with you, I want Miandadrules to provide some evidence for his claims as he always asks others for the same.
 
Yes, we have been here before and I have shown your understanding is simply wrong. No need to waste time with you, I want Miandadrules to provide some evidence for his claims as he always asks others for the same.

Shooting Stars are missiles to kill devil as per Quran. Prophet rode a Mule/Donkey and went to Al Aqsa in Jerusalem and then to heaven and met Moses/Jesus and Allah. Hope that answers your question :zakirnaik
https://quran.com/67/5
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze.

Volume 4, Book 54, Number 429 :
Narrated by Malik bin Sasaa
The Prophet said, "While I was at the House in a state midway between sleep and wakefulness, (an angel recognized me) as the man lying between two men. A golden tray full of wisdom and belief was brought to me and my body was cut open from the throat to the lower part of the abdomen and then my abdomen was washed with Zam-zam water and (my heart was) filled with wisdom and belief. Al-buraq, a white animal, smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me and I set out with Gabriel. When I reached the nearest heaven. Gabriel said to the heaven gate-keeper, 'Open the gate.' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' He said, 'Gabriel.' The gate-keeper,' Who is accompanying you?' Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' The gate-keeper said, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' Then it was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' Then I met Adam and greeted him and he said, 'You are welcomed O son and a Prophet.' Then we ascended to the second heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was said, 'Who is with you?' He said, 'Muhammad' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' He said, 'Yes.' It was said, 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!" Then I met Jesus and Yahya (John) who said, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet.' Then we ascended to the third heaven. It was asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel said, 'Gabriel.' It was asked, 'Who is with you? Gabriel said, 'Muhammad.' It was asked, 'Has he been sent for?' 'Yes,' said Gabriel. 'He is welcomed. What a wonderful visit his is!' (The Prophet added:). There I met Joseph and greeted him, and he replied, 'You are welcomed, O brother and a Prophet!' Then we ascended to the 4th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met Idris and greeted him. He said, 'You are welcomed O brother and Prophet.' Then we ascended to the 5th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in previous heavens. there I met and greeted Aaron who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and a Prophet". Then we ascended to the 6th heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Moses who said, 'You are welcomed O brother and. a Prophet.' When I proceeded on, he started weeping and on being asked why he was weeping, he said, 'O Lord! Followers of this youth who was sent after me will enter Paradise in greater number than my followers.' Then we ascended to the seventh heaven and again the same questions and answers were exchanged as in the previous heavens. There I met and greeted Abraham who said, 'You are welcomed o son and a Prophet.' Then I was shown Al-Bait-al-Ma'mur (i.e. Allah's House). I asked Gabriel about it and he said, This is Al Bait-ul-Ma'mur where 70,000 angels perform prayers daily and when they leave they never return to it (but always a fresh batch comes into it daily).' Then I was shown Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (i.e. a tree in the seventh heaven) and I saw its Nabk fruits which resembled the clay jugs of Hajr (i.e. a town in Arabia), and its leaves were like the ears of elephants, and four rivers originated at its root, two of them were apparent and two were hidden. I asked Gabriel about those rivers and he said, 'The two hidden rivers are in Paradise, and the apparent ones are the Nile and the Euphrates.' Then fifty prayers were enjoined on me. I descended till I met Moses who asked me, 'What have you done?' I said, 'Fifty prayers have been enjoined on me.' He said, 'I know the people better than you, because I had the hardest experience to bring Bani Israel to obedience. Your followers cannot put up with such obligation. So, return to your Lord and request Him (to reduce the number of prayers.' I returned and requested Allah (for reduction) and He made it forty. I returned and (met Moses) and had a similar discussion, and then returned again to Allah for reduction and He made it thirty, then twenty, then ten, and then I came to Moses who repeated the same advice. Ultimately Allah reduced it to five. When I came to Moses again, he said, 'What have you done?' I said, 'Allah has made it five only.' He repeated the same advice but I said that I surrendered (to Allah's Final Order)'" Allah's Apostle was addressed by Allah, "I have decreed My Obligation and have reduced the burden on My slaves, and I shall reward a single good deed as if it were ten good deeds."
 
Back
Top