Ignoring age has wrecked Pakistan’s today and tomorrow

[Junaids]

I am flabbergasted at suggestions that picking three teenagers for five pace bowling booths in the squad to Australia is somehow helping the future. It’s is not. The whole unbalanced squad has damaged the future as well as the present.

No sports team can handle periods of transition. Transition means decline and uncertainty.

Consequently any team needs a foundation of roughly 8 players in their twenties, with the oldest players gradually replaced by youngsters. That is always the key to the future.

Look at the ages of Inzamam’s last Test team:

23
33
24
32
29
31
20
24
24
26
28

8 players in their twenties
3 overage players
0 underage players
All 5 bowlers in their twenties.

Now, in the very next Test, Misbah has transformed this team into:

30
34
30
33
25
29 (supposedly, but this is Iftikhar)
27
33
18
16
32

3 (probably actually 2) players in their twenties
6 (probably 7) overage players
2 underage players
0 of 4 bowlers aged in their twenties.

But is this actually forced by a lack of talent in players aged 20-29?

Consider domestic cricket.

The top scoring batsman is Sami Aslam, who is 24.

Imam is 23 and after averaging 152 this season was replaced by 30 year old Haris who averages 24 and is in wretched form on tour.

Faheem Ashraf is 26 and was told to score more runs. He is averaging 59 and was replaced by Iftikhar (supposedly 29) who scored a grand total of 35 domestic runs.

The bowling is worse. It is obvious that bowling at Brisbane is all about bounce.

Yasir Shah is 33 and averaging 39.52 in domestic cricket at a strike rate of 67. He replaced 21 year old Shadab who is averaging 28.22 at a strike rate of 49.

Imran Khan is 32 years old and is averaging 49.13 at a strike rate of 80.

Musa is 19 and is averaging 68.00 at a strike rate of 97.

Yet second in the wicket taking list is Zafar Gohar, aged 25. Third is Mohammad Asghar aged 21.

Ehsan Adil is tall, gets plenty of bounce, is 27 years old and is averaging 30.93 on dead pitches.

Sameen Gul is tall, bouncy, 21 years old and is averaging 25.86 at a strike rate of 49.

The current Pakistan team reminds me of various football teams after their 20-something year olds were wiped out in plane crashes.

The squad and the team are unbalanced and they sacrifice tomorrow as well as today.

And the annoying thing is that the talent aged 20-29 is there, and performing in domestic cricket. But the selectors seem incapable of building a team.

 

[emranabbas]

Misbah is doing what he did In his playing days, he's making the environment comfortable for himself by inviting his friends.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The argument for sami aslam is weak considering we already have four decent openers

Your arguments for ehsan and zafar are strong especially considering how well they are bowling and with the form they have shown

 

[Junaids]

The argument for sami aslam is weak considering we already have four decent openers

Your arguments for ehsan and zafar are strong especially considering how well they are bowling and with the form they have shown

My argument is for balance.

Guys in their twenties need to do the bulk of the fast bowling.

But at Brisbane there were two kids who could only manage limited workloads (at risk of getting stress fractures) plus an unfit grandpa bowling in the 120’s.

Shaheen Shah Afridi needed support at the other end. And he didn’t get any.

 

[The Viper]

The Imran Khan pick was very bizarre and had no merit at all.

Poor average in FC and there were younger, better bowlers than him available.

 

[kingusama92]

It's true, the team is carrying quite a few passengers right now.

Azhar Ali's reflexes are gone (horrific captain too), Shafiq is unreliable, Haris is overweight, Imran Khan was getting pummeled in FC cricket (lol), Iftikhar's real age is way too old for his first Australian Test series, and Shan Masood is a hard-working failure.

That's 6 guys who wouldn't be near a Test spot in any other era of Pakistani cricket.

Babar is the only legitimate Test batsman and he's still developing in this format. Shaheen and Naseem were respectable selections and at least there was some merit behind bringing them onboard.

But let's be honest, this is the way Misbah operates. He's heavily reliant on senior players and that's not changing anytime soon. The fact he chose Imran Khan despite his poor FC performances says it all. Sure he did well in the tour match but Imran should never have been in the squad to begin with.

Fans were trying to make the best XI with the squad all week but I think everyone realized it was going to end poorly. When the only source of excitement is a 17/18-year-old fast bowler, you're in a world of trouble.

 

[PakLFC]

If they are doing the business there is no problem at all. Don't want an inexperienced team of all players in early 20 somethings either. There has to be a balance of youth and experience.

 

[Junaids]

If they are doing the business there is no problem at all. Don't want an inexperienced team of all players in early 20 somethings either. There has to be a balance of youth and experience.

My point is that the guys in their twenties who are ignored are performing better than Imran Khan, Iftikhar, Haris and Yasir who were recalled to replace them.

But the point is that for continuity and to minimise transitions you need the majority of the team to be in their twenties.

This team has Babar and Rizwan and precisely ZERO other players in that age band.

 

[Bilal Ahmad15]

Nauman Ali is the highest wicket taker for QeA. He has decent first class stats also, but some may say he is too old to be considered for long term as he is currently 33.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

My argument is for balance.

Guys in their twenties need to do the bulk of the fast bowling.

But at Brisbane there were two kids who could only manage limited workloads (at risk of getting stress fractures) plus an unfit grandpa bowling in the 120’s.

Shaheen Shah Afridi needed support at the other end. And he didn’t get any.

Pakistan have two princes out there who can both punch above their weight
Ehsan adil was outbowled by imran Khan on his last test outing which might have been a factor

 

[Rellu_Katta]

I am flabbergasted at suggestions that picking three teenagers for five pace bowling booths in the squad to Australia is somehow helping the future. It’s is not. The whole unbalanced squad has damaged the future as well as the present.

No sports team can handle periods of transition. Transition means decline and uncertainty.

Consequently any team needs a foundation of roughly 8 players in their twenties, with the oldest players gradually replaced by youngsters. That is always the key to the future.

Look at the ages of Inzamam’s last Test team:

23
33
24
32
29
31
20
24
24
26
28

8 players in their twenties
3 overage players
0 underage players
All 5 bowlers in their twenties.

Now, in the very next Test, Misbah has transformed this team into:

30
34
30
33
25
29 (supposedly, but this is Iftikhar)
27
33
18
16
32

3 (probably actually 2) players in their twenties
6 (probably 7) overage players
2 underage players
0 of 4 bowlers aged in their twenties.

But is this actually forced by a lack of talent in players aged 20-29?

Consider domestic cricket.

The top scoring batsman is Sami Aslam, who is 24.

Imam is 23 and after averaging 152 this season was replaced by 30 year old Haris who averages 24 and is in wretched form on tour.

Faheem Ashraf is 26 and was told to score more runs. He is averaging 59 and was replaced by Iftikhar (supposedly 29) who scored a grand total of 35 domestic runs.

The bowling is worse. It is obvious that bowling at Brisbane is all about bounce.

Yasir Shah is 33 and averaging 39.52 in domestic cricket at a strike rate of 67. He replaced 21 year old Shadab who is averaging 28.22 at a strike rate of 49.

Imran Khan is 32 years old and is averaging 49.13 at a strike rate of 80.

Musa is 19 and is averaging 68.00 at a strike rate of 97.

Yet second in the wicket taking list is Zafar Gohar, aged 25. Third is Mohammad Asghar aged 21.

Ehsan Adil is tall, gets plenty of bounce, is 27 years old and is averaging 30.93 on dead pitches.

Sameen Gul is tall, bouncy, 21 years old and is averaging 25.86 at a strike rate of 49.

The current Pakistan team reminds me of various football teams after their 20-something year olds were wiped out in plane crashes.

The squad and the team are unbalanced and they sacrifice tomorrow as well as today.

And the annoying thing is that the talent aged 20-29 is there, and performing in domestic cricket. But the selectors seem incapable of building a team.

DEf make sense but will disagree with HArris .. he is a class act and is much better than most players in the Pakistan mould ... he is ideal for no3 .. he needs some1 to tighten his screws to tell him to b more sensible .. it was just pure stupidity , the way he got out in both innings.

Also, its unfortunate how Aamir chickened out of test cricket rather than improving on his fitness and speeds ...

Zafar Gohar deserves a crack ... but brisbane would have been a nightmare for all.. its a batting paradise and unless u can bowl 142+, u aint troubling batsmen

 

[Junaids]

Nauman Ali is the highest wicket taker for QeA. He has decent first class stats also, but some may say he is too old to be considered for long term as he is currently 33.

I say you can have one player in the team aged 30 or 31 and one player aged 32 or 33.

So if you want Nauman Ali, you can have one other bloke aged over 30.

That’s how proper selection works. It’s not just the best eleven now, it’s about longer-term planning.

Inzamam’s team in January at Johannesburg had three guys over 30: Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz.

What should have happened next was two of them being dropped forever.

Instead Misbah kept all two (both of whom scored a duck in their previous Test) and added five more guys in their thirties and two kids.

He has completely hollowed out the main foundation of any team - the guys in their twenties.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Inzi’s team flopped too.

I think it’s more than just attitude, age, etc. Pakistan isn’t producing skilled players. Because the current crop is not good enough - every now and then they have to go back to players like Malik, Hafeez, and Wahab who made their debut in ‘00s (or even earlier) and have never been consistent or throw in young kids like Hasnain, Shinwari etc. who end up as one tournament wonders.

This is a case of a missing generation. That is, an entire generation between 2007 to 2019 has not been able to produce players that have been able to make a long term impact on the cricketing world, i.e., good enough for a long term international career. Consequently not one player (Babar is work in progress, and most likely to break the pattern) in the last 10 or so years took heaps of wickets or made bucket loads of runs over a long period.

Fakkhar, Shahzad, Umar, Maqsood, Hasan, Haris, Ruman, Shinwari, Bhatti, Anwar Ali, Hammad Azam, Faheem Ashraf
The list is long...

 

[PakLFC]

My point is that the guys in their twenties who are ignored are performing better than Imran Khan, Iftikhar, Haris and Yasir who were recalled to replace them.

But the point is that for continuity and to minimise transitions you need the majority of the team to be in their twenties.

This team has Babar and Rizwan and precisely ZERO other players in that age band.

These performing players won't do anything at international level. The current crop also do well at domestic level only to fail when it really matters.

 

[Titan24]

I would rather put it this way that Pak havent selected many players at their peak or nearing it. 25 to 30 odd is probably the age where experience mixes with the skills and also body is close to its finest.

Babar is entering it, Rizwan (Who actually did decently in the test) and Abbas should be in his peak. Shan has limited skill set while Haris along with his fitness issues is used at wrong position more often than not.

So I agree that players like Ehsan Adil, Sami Aslam, Hassan Ali (Once fit), Zafar Gohar, Sajid Khan, Amad Butt, Faheem Ashraf (If he finds some form), maybe Umer Amin (To be given another chance), Umer Siddiq can be made part of the setup going forward and then see which responses well and where it goes from there. As these players have decent skill set and now enough experience to actually start performing at the peak of their abilities.

While youngsters like Shaheen, Naseem, Musa, Shadab, Hasnain are already in the radar and others like Smaeen Gul, Zeeshan Malik, Omair Yousuf, Haider Ali, Rohail Nazir, Umer Khan etc. can come under the radar in future.

 

[BreadPakoda]

^Umar Amin, Faheem Ashraf, Hasan Ali, Sami Aslam, Ehsan Adil

Interesting names.

Curious to know if they’ve improved significantly because the last time these guys played they looked ordinary for international level.

 

[Titan24]

^Umar Amin, Faheem Ashraf, Hasan Ali, Sami Aslam, Ehsan Adil

Interesting names.

Curious to know if they’ve improved significantly because the last time these guys played they looked ordinary for international level.

To be honest these are the only players for tests we have who have both some skills and have now matured with experience in domestic cricket along with bit of international cricket.

Hassan Ali hasnt done badly in tests, our fans mix the formats too often while Ehsan Adil is a much more improved bowler who can ball around 140 kph now and has really good height and does have some good skillset. Umer Amin can be given a go in tests too for another time and see from their while Sami Aslam has already shown his capability in this year's QAE trophy. Faheem is a bowling all rounder who isnt as bad a bowler as last few months have shown, he is out of form and just needs to get his lengths back. Can provide decent batting depth if we want to play five bowlers competing with Amad Butt in overseas tests.

Again its the lot which have decent skills as well as experience and I cant think of many other names.

 

[BreadPakoda]

To be honest these are the only players for tests we have who have both some skills and have now matured with experience in domestic cricket along with bit of international cricket.

Hassan Ali hasnt done badly in tests, our fans mix the formats too often while Ehsan Adil is a much more improved bowler who can ball around 140 kph now and has really good height and does have some good skillset. Umer Amin can be given a go in tests too for another time and see from their while Sami Aslam has already shown his capability in this year's QAE trophy. Faheem is a bowling all rounder who isnt as bad a bowler as last few months have shown, he is out of form and just needs to get his lengths back. Can provide decent batting depth if we want to play five bowlers competing with Amad Butt in overseas tests.

Again its the lot which have decent skills as well as experience and I cant think of many other names.

Fair enough. But time and again we've seen players perform in domestics, then get back into the side only to disappoint their fans who in turn label them as TTF/perchi and what not.

For Pakistan's sake, I hope the improvements are technical in nature and not a false flag otherwise it would be another merry-go-round.

 

[charlie007]

Lack of logic for most part in the OP. Age should have nothing to do with selection, just performance. Rather than having x players in the 20-29 range, y players in 30-34 range and other such nonsense, just focus on performance and select based on that. This is most likely to give you best results most times.

 

[Junaids]

Four Pakistanis have done well in this Test.

Babar Azam aged 25.
Mohammad Rizwan aged 27.
Shan Masood aged 30.
Shaheen Afridi aged 19.

Why can’t the Chief Selector see that you need to build a team around guys aged 20-30?

 

[Junaids]

Lack of logic for most part in the OP. Age should have nothing to do with selection, just performance. Rather than having x players in the 20-29 range, y players in 30-34 range and other such nonsense, just focus on performance and select based on that. This is most likely to give you best results most times.

Nonsense.

Firstly, the guys over 30 aren’t performing anyway, and haven’t for several years. Read the stats in the OP.

Secondly, you can’t just pick a short-term “best eleven now” or you will collapse into transition periods with no succession planning.

This is why Usman Khawaja has just been dropped forever with Travis Head replacing him. Khawaja is still by far the better batsman, but they need a conveyer belt in which young players are groomed one at a time and then replace the oldest players.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Four Pakistanis have done well in this Test.

Babar Azam aged 25.
Mohammad Rizwan aged 27.
Shan Masood aged 30.
Shaheen Afridi aged 19.

Why can’t the Chief Selector see that you need to build a team around guys aged 20-30?

Shaheen played well but Shafiq didn’t? Pakistan reached 200 in the first innings only due to Shafiq and Yasir.

 

[DrSchultz]

Misbah will continue playing his disciples and sycophants. We know enough about him to conclude this.

 

[Junaids]

Shaheen played well but Shafiq didn’t? Pakistan reached 200 in the first innings only due to Shafiq and Yasir.

Shaheen was excellent, everyone here in Australia agrees.

Shafiq did what old batsmen do. A fifty and a duck.

A batsman needs to score at least 20 sixty percent of the time. Shan Masood was more useful in this Test than Asad Shafiq.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Shaheen was excellent, everyone here in Australia agrees.

Shafiq did what old batsmen do. A fifty and a duck.

A batsman needs to score at least 20 sixty percent of the time. Shan Masood was more useful in this Test than Asad Shafiq.

What are you even saying? I'm in Australia right now, in fact I'm typing from the stadium, and everyone agrees that he wasn't excellent.

 

[BreadPakoda]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - I just spoke with some on my mates sitting with me here in the stadium. Shafiq has gained a lot of respect for his first innings heroics. Everyone here in Australia believes that Shafiq is a player to watch out for this series. They don't even know who Shan Masood is.

 

[charlie007]

Nonsense.

Firstly, the guys over 30 aren’t performing anyway, and haven’t for several years. Read the stats in the OP.

Secondly, you can’t just pick a short-term “best eleven now” or you will collapse into transition periods with no succession planning.

This is why Usman Khawaja has just been dropped forever with Travis Head replacing him. Khawaja is still by far the better batsman, but they need a conveyer belt in which young players are groomed one at a time and then replace the oldest players.

Stop peddling your nonsense without backing up with stats. Discussions are not done based on opinions. If you have 20-29 years of age players not performing, then you don't select them, simple as that. If three 35 year olds are performing as per the requirements of the team, you don't drop them. Again, performance is the key here, not age. Teams are not constituted based on age, but by performance.

Don't compare what Australians do with what Pakistan should do. At their top for nearly 4 years during the Steve Waugh era, 6 (and at times 7) players were over the age of 30. Again, because of performance and not because of age.
Usman Khawaja averaged 20 runs an innings in the Ashes, and under 30 runs an innings over whole of 2019 INCLUDING home games - that's the reason he's out and not because his 33 years are too many to be selected. During the same time, Travis Head has averaged 49 runs an inning which is far better than Khawaja. Again, performance based, not age.
Australia doesn't care about age, but only performance. Mike Hussey made his debut after he turned 31.

Kohli, Rohit, Rahane, Pujara, Jadeja, Saha, Ashwin are all over 30 years of age. All high performing players. Should they be discarded because they don't fall under the 20-29 years of age bracket???

This is true of all great teams of the world that have remained at the top for a sustained period of time. Performance trumps age everyday of the week.

You are entitled to your opinion - just don't expect others to buy the nonsense you peddle.

 

[daytrader]

Rather than age, form over past 2-3 seasons, should be the criteria