IHC seeks Nadra’s detailed report on Ahmedis

[Reddy]

ISLAMABAD: An Islamabad High Court (IHC) bench Monday directed the National Database Registration Authority (Nadra) to furnish with it a comprehensive report on 10,205 Qadianis who had changed their religious status from Muslim to Qadiani in their identity cards.

The bench was hearing a petition of Maulana Allah Wasaya who has challenged amendment to the oath of Khatm-e-Nabuwwat in Election Act, 2017. The Nadra on February 22 provided details about the total number of Qadianis in Pakistan and also how many had changed their religious status.

The bench, comprising Justice Shaukat Aziz Siddiqui, directed the Nadra to provide name, father's name, age and details of foreign trips of those persons in a sealed envelope to the court.

Amicus curiae Professor Dr Hafiz Hassan Madni of the Institute of Islamic Studies, University of Punjab, Lahore told the court that a person who converted from Islam to another faith was an 'apostate' and deserved a penalty prescribed for this.

“Qadianis are more dangerous than the non-believers. They are neither Muslims nor Christians and in fact they have covered themselves under Islam,” he said.

The bench was hearing the petition of Maulana Allah Wasaya who had challenged an amendment to the oath of Khatm-e-Nabuwwat (SAW) in the Election Act, 2017 and consequential repeal of other election laws.

Justice Siddiqui asked Professor Madni what was Islamic injunction about a person who changed his religion for a seat of the Punjab Assembly.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/286219-ihc-seeks-nadra-s-detailed-report-on-qadianis

 

[Pakpak]

I mean its not like we have small issues like poverty and corruption to worry about

 

[Third_Umpire]

Pure jahalat.

 

[Reddy]

“Qadianis are more dangerous than the non-believers. They are neither Muslims nor Christians and in fact they have covered themselves under Islam, he said”

So Qadinis are worse than Hindus for this professor?? curious to see him not talking about Hindus in this context.

 

[Slog]

Jahil idiots

Hopefully they choke on those papers

 

[JaDed]

“Qadianis are more dangerous than the non-believers. They are neither Muslims nor Christians and in fact they have covered themselves under Islam, he said”

So Qadinis are worse than Hindus for this professor?? curious to see him not talking about Hindus in this context.

Yes but Hindus aren't under the umbrella of Islam, probably that is his issue.

 

[srh]

“Qadianis are more dangerous than the non-believers. They are neither Muslims nor Christians and in fact they have covered themselves under Islam, he said”

So Qadinis are worse than Hindus for this professor?? curious to see him not talking about Hindus in this context.

I think the professor is terming Qadianis as Hypocrites (Munafiqs).

As per Islam, Hypocrites (Munafiqs) are those who pretend to be muslims but are not really muslims.
As per Islam, Hypocrites (Munafiqs) will get the worst punishment in hell.

I believe Hindus will be consider Mushriks (Kaafirs) in Islam as they dont believe in one God and are idol worshipers.
As per Islam, Mushriks (Kaafirs) will get the 2nd worst punishment in hell.

 

[yasir]

Then people say, why we don't make progress, why there is no prosperity?? All this chirping about corruption, this has nothing to do with corruption but a society blind by religious extremism from head to toe, these are cultural choices we had make

 

[TM Riddle]

Technically Mainstream Muslims have every right to ostracize and boycott Ahmadis since they overlooked and broke one of the foremost laws of Islam that says Muhammad (PBUH) was the last messanger and declared Mirza Gulam Ahmad as his successor. I know I would be pretty ****** had I been a religious Muslim.

 

[Waseem]

How i see this is "Muslims react so angrily when Trump does stupid thing like this" so how can you do the same to others living in your country?

At least treat them like other minorities and give them right to live normal lives?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Amicus curiae Professor Dr Hafiz Hassan Madni of the Institute of Islamic Studies, University of Punjab, Lahore told the court that a person who converted from Islam to another faith was an 'apostate' and deserved a penalty prescribed for this.

I would assume almost all are born into Qadiani families. Im not sure why this chap things they have 'converted' from mainstream Islam to their version.

They are not Muslims but there is no need to single them out as very dangerous etc, ridiculous.

 

[indipper]

Label them as non-muslims. Why making more fuss out of it? Like all other religions they deserve to live and practice their own things WITHOUT calling themselves Muslims.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

So in essence they are making a list of those who they consider to be apostates so that they can round them up and send them to the gallows. Because last time I heard, the punishment for apostasy was death according to the common public perception.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Technically Mainstream Muslims have every right to ostracize and boycott Ahmadis since they overlooked and broke one of the foremost laws of Islam that says Muhammad (PBUH) was the last messanger and declared Mirza Gulam Ahmad as his successor. I know I would be pretty ****** had I been a religious Muslim.

Not all ahmadis believe the same thing - just as there is a difference of opinion in other religions and sects there are differing opinions within the ahmadi faith too. Sure some see Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet but others just see him as a reformer or as the Messiah/Mahdi.

 

[DeadBall]

Why is the IHC giving in to the demands of these religious extremists?

 

[TM Riddle]

Not all ahmadis believe the same thing - just as there is a difference of opinion in other religions and sects there are differing opinions within the ahmadi faith too. Sure some see Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet but others just see him as a reformer or as the Messiah/Mahdi.

Even considering him Mehdi goes against the basic tenets of Sunni/Shia islam. There have been too many of these false Messiahs/Mehdis in the history.
See I'm not justifying their persecution by the Paindoo Pakistani authorities . Only trying to present a Mainstream Islamic viewpoint.

 

[Ocelot]

“Qadianis are more dangerous than the non-believers. They are neither Muslims nor Christians and in fact they have covered themselves under Islam,” he said.

It was a Qadiani who won the Nobel prize for Pakistan. It was a Qadiani General who pummeled the crap out of Indians during Operation Grand slam in 65 war, only to be replaced by Ayub Khan with Yahya during decisive moments so Qadianis won't take credit for liberating Kashmir.

 

[Justcrazy]

“Qadianis are more dangerous than the non-believers. They are neither Muslims nor Christians and in fact they have covered themselves under Islam, he said”

So Qadinis are worse than Hindus for this professor?? curious to see him not talking about Hindus in this context.

Yes , because you can know that they are kafirs . There is no problem if you leave Islam . You have every right to do so. There is no compulsion in religion. But you would not be allowed to make use of all resources of Islam , and approach others as Muslims , and change fundamentals , and present Islam in that manner.

 

[Justcrazy]

Even considering him Mehdi goes against the basic tenets of Sunni/Shia islam. There have been too many of these false Messiahs/Mehdis in the history.
See I'm not justifying their persecution by the Paindoo Pakistani authorities . Only trying to present a Mainstream Islamic viewpoint.

No , if people had limited themselves in considering him mahdi , that was not that big issue. Believing in mahdi is not part of Iman . There are Muslims who believe in another Mahdi , they are in India called mahdavi sect , they believe Muhammad Jaunpuri to be mahdi.

Problem is when you believe someone else to be prophet. If for example I do not believe Mirza Ghulam to be prophet ( whom Qadiyanis ) believe to be a true prophet , then I am a kafir for them. It has to be.

 

[Justcrazy]

Not all ahmadis believe the same thing - just as there is a difference of opinion in other religions and sects there are differing opinions within the ahmadi faith too. Sure some see Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a prophet but others just see him as a reformer or as the Messiah/Mahdi.

Brother , that is just to fool others.

This lahori Jamat also has same beliefs , just to get closer to other Muslims they started this nonsense.

 

[Justcrazy]

Label them as non-muslims. Why making more fuss out of it? Like all other religions they deserve to live and practice their own things WITHOUT calling themselves Muslims.

That is the main issue.

 

[Loralai]

This is indicative of why Pakistan is in the position it is in.

I also believe Qadiani is a pejorative term (along with Mirzai) and therefore this shouldn't be used. Please use the term Ahmadi which I think is correct.

Also, nobody has the right to decide who gets to call themselves Muslim (or otherwise). So please keep your labelling to yourself and think about the negative impact this has had on our country.

 

[Heisenberg]

Brother , that is just to fool others.

This lahori Jamat also has same beliefs , just to get closer to other Muslims they started this nonsense.

Why don't Muslims go out of their way to call Wahabi types non-Muslims like they do in regards to Ahmadis?

I mean one is an extremist group with a lust for blood and virgins in heaven as opposed to a peaceful group who believe in the power of the pen?

 

[Varun]

I believe Hindus will be consider Mushriks (Kaafirs) in Islam as they dont believe in one God and are idol worshipers.
As per Islam, Mushriks (Kaafirs) will get the 2nd worst punishment in hell.

I simply cannot wait.

 

[Mughal]

The quran categorises people as muslimoon and kafiroon. Not for harming or killing people but for organisational purposes. It then divides people who claim to be muslims into various categories and likewise it divides people who do not claim to be muslims and reject deen of islam eg people who are said to be kafiroon are divided into mushrikoon and munafiqoon. This is just to help people understand where they are coming from and what they are trying to do for or against each other.

Qaadyanies are also trying to use the label of deen of islam for their beliefs as people of other sects. However the problem with qaadiyani is that they are opposed by all other sects who claim to be muslims but who have faith in finality of prophethood in person of Muhammadurrasoolullah1400 years ago. This is what isolates qaadyanies from the rest on a particular ground.

Since people who claim to believe in end of messengership from Allah are one despite being different from each other on other grounds they accept label of deen of islam for each other but not for qaadiyanies. Qaadyanies are trying to force themselves under the label of deen of islam so there is tension between qaadyanies and the rest who claim to be muslims. It is like a company name or logo which someone else is trying to take over by force from an already existing company which does not agree and reacts to intruder. Qaadiyanies cannot use name ahmedi either because that too is already taken by already existing same groups. This is why qaadiyanies need to label themselves in some other way which does not clash with groups which give them trouble by reacting to their acts.

 

[indipper]

This is indicative of why Pakistan is in the position it is in.

I also believe Qadiani is a pejorative term (along with Mirzai) and therefore this shouldn't be used. Please use the term Ahmadi which I think is correct.

Also, nobody has the right to decide who gets to call themselves Muslim (or otherwise). So please keep your labelling to yourself and think about the negative impact this has had on our country.

1. True, qaidiani etc are just an umbrella term. Must filter out 'Muslims' who don't believe on the finality of Prophethood instead of hitting specific caste/sub-caste.

2. Sure, we are no one to judge. But those who stay within the definitions of Islam. Shia, Wahabi, etc I would never say them as non-muslims unless they do anything which actually declares them as one. But those who don't believe in finality of prophethood (which he said himself) are not following Islam but a twisted religion induced by british heads.

That is the main issue.

Issue is that we only got extreme gear in this regard. Either we secretly want to kill them or ignore them. There's no middle gear. Labeling them as non-Muslims and letting them live around us is not among anyone's agenda.

 

[LordEddardStark]

I used to have an Ahmedi acquaintance who was an ex-major in Pakistan army. One day upon asking about his service life, he told me that in the Zia era, all of servicemen were asked to give a declaration that they are not Muslim but Qadiani / Ahmedi. He refused to sign such a declaration, instead opted for resignation from service, thereby ending his army career.

His rationale for this drastic action was surprisingly very simple. He said, if he had done what he was asked to do that day, what would he tell God on the judgment day? That he opted to declare himself non-muslim just to save his job? My respect for him increased many folds that day.

First we humans decided whether they will go to heaven or hell after death. Then we told them that in this life too they can't pretend that they'll be going to heaven. And now we want to segregate them further by making separate lists of them. What's next? Concentration camps? Gas Chambers?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

It was a Qadiani who won the Nobel prize for Pakistan. It was a Qadiani General who pummeled the crap out of Indians during Operation Grand slam in 65 war, only to be replaced by Ayub Khan with Yahya during decisive moments so Qadianis won't take credit for liberating Kashmir.

The furqan battalion was made up of Ahmadi volunteers who fought India in the the first Indo-Pak war and helped Pakistan gain the territory in Kashmir that they did. Ironically a few weeks ago the Assembly in Pakistan Kashmir passed a resolution to declare the Ahmadis as Kafirs - great way to pay back the community.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

The quran categorises people as muslimoon and kafiroon. Not for harming or killing people but for organisational purposes. It then divides people who claim to be muslims into various categories and likewise it divides people who do not claim to be muslims and reject deen of islam eg people who are said to be kafiroon are divided into mushrikoon and munafiqoon. This is just to help people understand where they are coming from and what they are trying to do for or against each other.

Qaadyanies are also trying to use the label of deen of islam for their beliefs as people of other sects. However the problem with qaadiyani is that they are opposed by all other sects who claim to be muslims but who have faith in finality of prophethood in person of Muhammadurrasoolullah1400 years ago. This is what isolates qaadyanies from the rest on a particular ground.

Since people who claim to believe in end of messengership from Allah are one despite being different from each other on other grounds they accept label of deen of islam for each other but not for qaadiyanies. Qaadyanies are trying to force themselves under the label of deen of islam so there is tension between qaadyanies and the rest who claim to be muslims. It is like a company name or logo which someone else is trying to take over by force from an already existing company which does not agree and reacts to intruder. Qaadiyanies cannot use name ahmedi either because that too is already taken by already existing same groups. This is why qaadiyanies need to label themselves in some other way which does not clash with groups which give them trouble by reacting to their acts.

So for you religions should be run like corporations. Besides, NO ONE is FORCEFULLY trying to claim the copyright of Islam.

 

[srh]

I simply cannot wait.

The truth is clear. Now its up to you to go towards it and accept it. This Quran verse:

[2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

If you do not want to accept the truth then this Quran verse:

[109:1] Say, "O disbelievers,
[109:2] I do not worship what you worship.
[109:3] Nor are you worshippers of what I worship.
[109:4] Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship.
[109:5] Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.
[109:6] For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

 

[ManFan]

Ahmadis are NOT Muslim. It’s as simple as that. Make of it what you will.

 

[DeadBall]

The truth is clear. Now its up to you to go towards it and accept it. This Quran verse:



If you do not want to accept the truth then this Quran verse:

The "truth" according to other religious texts is different, they could also be the ultimate "truth" because their believers swear by it too.

 

[Pakistanian]

Ahmadis are NOT Muslim. It’s as simple as that. Make of it what you will.

Opinions shouldn't become laws and the courts shouldn't harass ahmadis cause they don't like them

 

[Varun]

The truth is clear. Now its up to you to go towards it and accept it. This Quran verse:

If you do not want to accept the truth then this Quran verse:

I swear to god, tears are openly flowing from my eyes. Please help me out here, srh.

 

[TM Riddle]

The truth is clear. Now its up to you to go towards it and accept it. This Quran verse:



If you do not want to accept the truth then this Quran verse:

That sucks man. What am I gonna do now

 

[Justcrazy]

Issue is that we only got extreme gear in this regard. Either we secretly want to kill them or ignore them. There's no middle gear. Labeling them as non-Muslims and letting them live around us is not among anyone's agenda.

Look Islam has very clear views about certain things , Islam is not a religion that compromises , it is divine laws , people who want to follow Must follow that as it is , or leave that. Allah swt does not need huge numbers , he wants sincere people. Many scholars these days try to present Islam in a wrong way and show it is easy to follow. NO it is not. None of the prophets had easy times .

As for as Qadiyanis are concerned , they are worse then any ordinary disbelievers, because they harm Islam from the inside. There is no consideration for them in Islamic state.

Now coming to Pakistan , it is not an Islamic state , it is basically a Muslim Dominated Country. Since it is not an Islamic state it cannot enforce the proper laws relating to such matter. But at the same time Muslims should boycott such people in every possible way in religious matters not in worldly life.

 

[Justcrazy]

Why don't Muslims go out of their way to call Wahabi types non-Muslims like they do in regards to Ahmadis?

I mean one is an extremist group with a lust for blood and virgins in heaven as opposed to a peaceful group who believe in the power of the pen?

There are Christian Missionaries who are also very peaceful , does that mean we accept them and there doctrines and start worshiping Jesus ?

I do not care whether Qadiyanis are peaceful or not , the point is not about being peaceful , the point is being deceitful . They have right to form a new religion , and follow there own prophet , no harm in that , but they cannot hide behind Islam and propagate this . Its a duty of every Islamic state to make sure that people are stopped from entering hell fire . How can you allow people to end up in hell and that too influenced by false propagation.

I could not understand what did you speak about wahabi ? What does Wahabi means , and what about blood and virgins in paradise ?

 

[Justcrazy]

Opinions shouldn't become laws and the courts shouldn't harass ahmadis cause they don't like them

If Pakistan thinks itself as Islamic state then Quran and hadeeth and ijma of scholars has to be law. If Pakistan wanted to be a secular state , why was it formed ? It could have stayed with India. pakistan was created , with a purpose.

It was not created to see a person claiming to be a prophet after Muhammad SAW , and his agents propagating such belief among Muslims in that country , and all under the name of Islam.

 

[ManFan]

Opinions shouldn't become laws and the courts shouldn't harass ahmadis cause they don't like them

Agreed.

 

[Pakistanian]

If Pakistan thinks itself as Islamic state then Quran and hadeeth and ijma of scholars has to be law. If Pakistan wanted to be a secular state , why was it formed ? It could have stayed with India. pakistan was created , with a purpose.

It was not created to see a person claiming to be a prophet after Muhammad SAW , and his agents propagating such belief among Muslims in that country , and all under the name of Islam.

Which Islam though, there are so many sects and fiqhs in Islam, we will never come to a conlcusion on the "right version" to govern Pakistan with. Also your "purpose card" expired in 1947, it's 70 + years now, 2-3 generations of Pakistanis have been raised and the 4th is own its way, another purpose for Pakistan can be found and if its going to be Islam, it doesn't have to be some exclusionist version. I don't see how the persecution and mass killings of Ahmadis are Islamic in anyway, and I don't how you justify it no matter what way you try to spin Islam.

 

[Justcrazy]

Which Islam though, there are so many sects and fiqhs in Islam, we will never come to a conlcusion on the "right version" to govern Pakistan with. Also your "purpose card" expired in 1947, it's 70 + years now, 2-3 generations of Pakistanis have been raised and the 4th is own its way, another purpose for Pakistan can be found and if its going to be Islam, it doesn't have to be some exclusionist version. I don't see how the persecution and mass killings of Ahmadis are Islamic in anyway, and I don't how you justify it no matter what way you try to spin Islam.

All the sects believe in Allah swt and Muhammad SAW as prophet .

When Qadiyanis have another prophet , how is it a sect of Islam ?

The purpose does not change , people change.

 

[Mian]

Fasten your seat belt guys and enjoy the entertainment coming your way this maulvi judge is the new darling of desi fake liberals after his remarks about ISI and Army today. Had hai yaar bughaz e army main kisi ko be sir pet bitha lete hen yeh )

He was involved in some corrupt practices so according to law his case was sent to judicial council but guess what to save his back he recorded a video blaming ISI for pressurizing judiciary to divert attention and now all of a sudden fake liberals joined his bandwagon and he is their new darling now. He was their biggest target when he was hearing blogger case and had soft views about Mumtaz Qadri and anti Ahmedi views