Imaginary Test team to face Clive Lloyd's West Indies team?

[Harsh Thakor]

My world test xi to play against Clive Lloyd's world -beating team .I am only choosing players who played against the team led by Clive Lloyd.

1.Sunil Gavaskar
2.Graham Gooch
3.Ian Chappell (C)
4.Mohinder Amarnath
5.Greg Chappell
6.Alan Border
7.Wasim Raja
8.Kapil Dev
9.Imran Khan
10.Syed Kirmani (W)
11.Dennis Lillee


Gavaskar's runs and technique speak for itself.Gooch was most prolific in the Carribaen with 2 great centuries in 1981.Ian Chappell was the ultimate stalwart in a crisis playing some great innings against West Indies like when scoring 156 at Perth in 1975-76 and 141 in WSC in 1977-78. I would choose him to lead the team as he was the best skipper of that era.In 1983 in West Indies Amarnath played the best pace attack ever better than any batsmen ever,aggregating 598 runs at an average of around 66.Greg Chappell in WSC in West Indies statistically overshadowed any batting great in the Caribean against the best bowlers scoring 621 runs with 3 centuries at average of 69.Border wore down the great attack better than anyone in 1981-82 averaging over 67 at home and averaging over 74 in 1984 in West Indies.Wasim Raja was the best batsmen v West Indies in 1977 on their soil averaging over 57 .Kapil Dev wast he best performer as an all-rounder with his record in West Indies in 1983 taking 17 wickets at 24.62 and averaging close to 40.Imran performed better than any paceman of his era taking 80 scalps at an average of less than 20 against arguably the best team ever.Kirmani had the great skill of pitching in when the chips were down.Abdul Qadir could even mesmerize Viv Richards .Lillee wa s determination personified be it in 1975-76,1981-82 and WSC bowling to Viv,Lloyd or Greenidge.

The spin of Wasim Raja,Border and the medium-pace of Amarnath would assist the bowling trio of Imran,Kapil and Lillee.Felt my side needed more batsmen to combat the great Calypso attack.

The likes of Mushtaq Muhammad,Dennis Amiss,Alan Lamb and Jeff Thomson just miss out who also gave some outstanding performances.

 

[Godhelpma]

Weak bowling attack , should have included specialist fast bowler in place of waseem raja .It would be difficult for this attack to get the other team out .Batting is good .

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Weak bowling attack , should have included specialist fast bowler in place of waseem raja .It would be difficult for this attack to get the other team out .Batting is good .

Some spin of Border and Raja with meium opf Greg Chappell and Mohinder.Still you have a good point.Who would you like?

 

[moghul]

Yes, weak bowling, you have to play one out of IK and Kapil and I guess , kapil have to sit out. You want a tear away to accompany Lilly, Thompson comes in. If you want to play both Kapil and IK you need to pick one out of Raja and Amarnath, both were great again sheer pace, Raja was a touch better, which he proved in WI tour. In a specialist era, there was no better keeper other than one of the best ever Wasim Bari , who comes in ahead of Kirmani. Kirmani never kept with genuine pace bowler, as India never had one.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Yes, weak bowling, you have to play one out of IK and Kapil and I guess , kapil have to sit out. You want a tear away to accompany Lilly, Thompson comes in. If you want to play both Kapil and IK you need to pick one out of Raja and Amarnath, both were great again sheer pace, Raja was a touch better, which he proved in WI tour. In a specialist era, there was no better keeper other than one of the best ever Wasim Bari , who comes in ahead of Kirmani. Kirmani never kept with genuine pace bowler, as India never had one.

Very good point sir.Touch nad go between Wasim and Jimmy.I may have to correct it and include maybe Hadlee .Also Wasim Bari almost made it and could still but I felt Kirmani was a slightly better batsmen.Still I can never forget Wasim Bari's monumental effort at Barbados in a133 run last wicket stand with Wasim Raja that almost won a game after Pakistan looked dead and buried.Include Hadlee and Wasim Bari ?

 

[Robert]

You’d want Hadlee especially if it was in NZ.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

You’d want Hadlee especially if it was in NZ.

What about in West Indies or Australia?Hvae Hadlee?Would you take Amarnath or Wasim Raja?Like my team generally?

 

[Syed1]

Didn't the Pakistani side of the 80s nearly pull it off?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Didn't the Pakistani side of the 80s nearly pull it off?

Against Viv's team not Lloyd's which was arguably the best ever.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

You’d want Hadlee especially if it was in NZ.

Would you have Kapil Dev ?Amarnath?

 

[Gilly]

Using Lloyd's captaincy as the filter here are the bowlers that took 20 or more wickets.

Gilmor 20 @ 20.3
Hadlee 34 @ 22.6
Ghavri 27 @ 23.4
Yardley 35 @ 23.5
Troup 20 @ 23.5
Dev 63 @ 24.1
Lillee 55 @ 25.3
Thompson 62 @ 29.3
Khan 35 @ 29.3

 

[Junaids]

Why Syed Kirmani as keeper instead of Alan Knott or Rod Marsh?

I’m quite surprised!

 

[Junaids]

Is there a reason why you’ve excluded the SuperTests?

I’d have thought that Barry Richards and Mike Procter would walk straight into the team!

In addition, Gooch really only excelled against Viv’s West Indies, not Lloyd’s!

 

[Buffet]

Using Lloyd's captaincy as the filter here are the bowlers that took 20 or more wickets.

Gilmor 20 @ 20.3
Hadlee 34 @ 22.6
Ghavri 27 @ 23.4
Yardley 35 @ 23.5
Troup 20 @ 23.5
Dev 63 @ 24.1
Lillee 55 @ 25.3
Thompson 62 @ 29.3
Khan 35 @ 29.3

Keeping account of number of wickets and average, top 4 bowlers out of this list against Lloyd captaincy would be,

1) Dev 63 @ 24.1
2) Lillee 55 @ 25.3
3) Yardley 35 @ 23.5
4) Hadlee 34 @ 22.6

Lillee and Dev seems to have played a lot against Lloyd's team and did very well as well.

 

[Gilly]

Is there a reason why you’ve excluded the SuperTests?

I’d have thought that Barry Richards and Mike Procter would walk straight into the team!

In addition, Gooch really only excelled against Viv’s West Indies, not Lloyd’s!

Barry Richards played one supertest against the West Indies scoring 37 runs.

 

[anoop]

Yes, weak bowling, you have to play one out of IK and Kapil and I guess , kapil have to sit out. You want a tear away to accompany Lilly, Thompson comes in. If you want to play both Kapil and IK you need to pick one out of Raja and Amarnath, both were great again sheer pace, Raja was a touch better, which he proved in WI tour. In a specialist era, there was no better keeper other than one of the best ever Wasim Bari , who comes in ahead of Kirmani. Kirmani never kept with genuine pace bowler, as India never had one.

No. Kapil was the most successful bowler against Lloyd's West indies. Imran's performance was good against Viv's team not Lloyd.

 

[Gilly]

Wicketkeepers

R Marsh 48 dismissals from 23 innings
Kirmani 36 from 29
Rixon 25 from 20
Bari 18 from 15
Knott 17 from 16

 

[Gilly]

Against Clive Lloyd the best possible team you could assemble using 500 runs and or 20 wickets as the qualifier.

Gooch
Wessels
G Chappell
Raja
Redpath
Dev
Marsh
Yardley
Gilmour
Lillee
Thompson.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Is there a reason why you’ve excluded the SuperTests?

I’d have thought that Barry Richards and Mike Procter would walk straight into the team!

In addition, Gooch really only excelled against Viv’s West Indies, not Lloyd’s!

In 1981. in West Indies Gooch averaged over 57 with 2. Centuries.153 at Kingston and 115 at Barbados.No opener played better against bathe Great quartet.do acknowledge .Also 123 at. Lords in 1980.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Why Syed Kirmani as keeper instead of Alan Knott or Rod Marsh?

I’m quite surprised!

Played some really handy knocks when indias back was to the wall.played a great role in madras win in 1978-79 facing likes of Sylvester Clarke.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Against Clive Lloyd the best possible team you could assemble using 500 runs and or 20 wickets as the qualifier.

Gooch
Wessels
G Chappell
Raja
Redpath
Dev
Marsh
Yardley
Gilmour
Lillee
Thompson.

No Gavaskar?

 

[Dingolfy]

It depends on how the game is gonna be played.If its modern era with good helmets and protection, then clive loyd's pace bowlers will be ineffective barring may be Malcolm Marshall.And how good were they against legspin? Shane Warne could get them in few overs.

 

[Robert]

What about in West Indies or Australia?Hvae Hadlee?Would you take Amarnath or Wasim Raja?Like my team generally?

Hadlee wasn’t quite the same in WI, he went into his shell.

Amanarth had one great series but in another he couldn’t get a run. I would get:

Gavaskar
Gooch
Lamb
Chappell G
Border
Imran
Kapil
Hadlee
Kirmani
Qadir
Lillee

If Saffers were included I would put in Graeme Pollock and Mike Proctor.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Hadlee wasn’t quite the same in WI, he went into his shell.

Amanarth had one great series but in another he couldn’t get a run. I would get:

Gavaskar
Gooch
Lamb
Chappell G
Border
Imran
Kapil
Hadlee
Kirmani
Qadir
Lillee

If Saffers were included I would put in Graeme Pollock and Mike Proctor.

What about Dilip Vengsarkar?Very prolific in 1983--84 and 1987-88 topping the averages .

 

[Harsh Thakor]

In 1981. in West Indies Gooch averaged over 57 with 2. Centuries.153 at Kingston and 115 at Barbados.No opener played better against bathe Great quartet.do acknowledge .Also 123 at. Lords in 1980.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] Agree?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Hadlee wasn’t quite the same in WI, he went into his shell.

Amanarth had one great series but in another he couldn’t get a run. I would get:

Gavaskar
Gooch
Lamb
Chappell G
Border
Imran
Kapil
Hadlee
Kirmani
Qadir
Lillee

If Saffers were included I would put in Graeme Pollock and Mike Proctor.

Jeff Thomson in place of Hadlee?Vengsarkar strong contender at no 3?Great batting record in 1984 and 1988 topping averages.

 

[Robert]

Jeff Thomson in place of Hadlee?Vengsarkar strong contender at no 3?Great batting record in 1984 and 1988 topping averages.

Ok Dillip in for Lamby.

 

[Napa]

Using Lloyd's captaincy as the filter here are the bowlers that took 20 or more wickets.

Gilmor 20 @ 20.3
Hadlee 34 @ 22.6
Ghavri 27 @ 23.4
Yardley 35 @ 23.5
Troup 20 @ 23.5
Dev 63 @ 24.1
Lillee 55 @ 25.3
Thompson 62 @ 29.3
Khan 35 @ 29.3

Quite amazed Ghavri had and ATG average against the ATG team. Seems like there are some underappreciated Indians from the 20th century.

When I tell my Indian friends that India was ranked #1 in Tests back in the early 1970s, they invariably refuse to believe me, and I have to show them the data but they still have difficulty believing.

 

[Napa]

In 1981. in West Indies Gooch averaged over 57 with 2. Centuries.153 at Kingston and 115 at Barbados.No opener played better against bathe Great quartet.do acknowledge .Also 123 at. Lords in 1980.

The mark against Gooch is that he abandoned his team leaving it to be whitewashed 0-5 at home.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

The mark against Gooch is that he abandoned his team leaving it to be whitewashed 0-5 at home.

Boycott did the same .We cannot overlook the great batting performances because of indiscipline.That we you can even disqualify Wasim Akram.

 

[Robert]

The mark against Gooch is that he abandoned his team leaving it to be whitewashed 0-5 at home.

None of the Rebs thought they would be banned. Would England have avoided 0-5 if Gooch, Willey, Lever, Old had played and greenhorns Pringle and Foster not been exposed?

But I wonder. Gooch was at one time the record England test runs producer. Had he played those three years - maybe another thirty tests - how many more runs would he have ended up with?

 

[Napa]

None of the Rebs thought they would be banned. Would England have avoided 0-5 if Gooch, Willey, Lever, Old had played and greenhorns Pringle and Foster not been exposed?

But I wonder. Gooch was at one time the record England test runs producer. Had he played those three years - maybe another thirty tests - how many more runs would he have ended up with?

Gooch did say that the reason he went on the rebel tour was that 'others' decided he "had no place in England cricket".

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Quite amazed Ghavri had and ATG average against the ATG team. Seems like there are some underappreciated Indians from the 20th century.

When I tell my Indian friends that India was ranked #1 in Tests back in the early 1970s, they invariably refuse to believe me, and I have to show them the data but they still have difficulty believing.

Cricket only became popular in India after Kapil Dev's team won the world cup. That's why Gavaksar isn't revered as much as Tendulkar or Dravid.

 

[moghul]

How on earth Kirmani superseded Bari. Has kirmani ever kept to a genuine fast bowler, his “ fast bowlers” were military mediums like Madan all, Ghavri, Binny and like that and you want him to keep for Lilli and Thompson and IK?

 

[moghul]

Using Lloyd's captaincy as the filter here are the bowlers that took 20 or more wickets.

Gilmor 20 @ 20.3
Hadlee 34 @ 22.6
Ghavri 27 @ 23.4
Yardley 35 @ 23.5
Troup 20 @ 23.5
Dev 63 @ 24.1
Lillee 55 @ 25.3
Thompson 62 @ 29.3
Khan 35 @ 29.3

g6

That’s shows stats don’t mean quality all the time. Ghavri looks totally misfit here, didn’t belong to this group or even lower than that. Neither Troup and Yardley.

 

[Napa]

Cricket only became popular in India after Kapil Dev's team won the world cup. That's why Gavaksar isn't revered as much as Tendulkar or Dravid.

Also back in the early 70s, they did not have the ICC ranking. Though the retroactive calculation showed that India was actually ranked #1 for over a year at that time, the general public did not believe the team was that good. There was a general lack of confidence in India in its socialist phase. Winning the WC was different, because it unequivocally meant India were the winners. That too a lot of people (including Indians) regarded that win as a fluke, though India had beaten both Australia and WI once each in the group stage.