Imran Khan best all-rounder of my era, says Sir Richard Hadlee

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Former New Zealand all-rounder Sir Richard Hadlee has voted Pakistan's Imran Khan as the best all-rounder of his era, calling him a complete package in the celebrated '80s quartet, which included himself, Kapil Dev and Ian Botham.

"If I was asked to pick who was the better of the four of us, and I am on record as saying Imran because he was a versatile batsman, potent strike bowler and charismatic captain," he said.

"As a batsman, he could bat anywhere in the top six, sometimes in the top four, and play any type of innings depending on the circumstance of the game.

"As a bowler, he was a potent strike bowler ... His record suggests he was a fine bowler. He was also a charismatic person, a good and successful captain for Pakistan. He had a lot of respect, he had the package," Hadlee added.

However, Hadlee had a special place for former West Indian captain Sir Gary Sobers as an all-rounder.

"Sobers traditionally has always been regarded as the number one because people would pay to go and see him play. Very flamboyant, rhythmical batsman and bowler, fielder, captain. The whole package and the stats would back that up," he said.

Hadlee, nevertheless, regarded himself as the better bowler of the quartet, but admitted his weaknesses as a batsman.

"I scored less Test hundreds than anyone else, my batting average was lower than the others. So while I had some good innings, my batting was inconsistent. I wouldn't put myself in that same category, actually, but as a bowler definitely," he said.

Talking about the rivalry between the four, Hadlee said the 1980s was a fascinating era with the four all-rounders competing for a space of excellence.

"I didn't want to get out to Kapil or Immy or Beefy but I certainly wanted to get them out when I bowled. So that competition actually grew and that motivation actually grew," Hadlee said.

Hadlee rued that the era of great all-rounder was fast coming to an end and South Africa's Jacques Kallis is one of the few, who has adapted to all formats of the game and survived.

"Statistically, he (Kallis) is the greatest all-rounder ever in the history of the game, no question about that. But obviously as time has moved on in his case, he is now being more selective. But I still would probably think his focus is Test cricket," he said.

On the ball-tampering controversy, Hadlee said though reverse swing is a fascinating craft, players should not indulge in unfair practices to get the ball to do something.

"You can use natural saliva, sweat on the ball, it is having a good effect on the game. But you can't use fingernails or anything of that nature. If you are throwing the ball on a rough surface that scruffs the ball. What's wrong with that? You are using the facility allowed to you," he said.

Hadlee admitted that he encountered reverse swing when he was playing but did not know what it was.

"Sarfraz Nawaz (Pakistani pacer) was doing something with the ball. But later we came to know Pakistan had developed or found out what reverse swing is by looking after the ball," he said.

Hadlee praised the current fast bowlers including England's James Anderson for learning reverse swing to doing it very effectively.

http://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/news...-hadlee?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
 
Credit to Hadlee for admitting it.

I think he's right also.
 
No doubt about that. While Botham and Kapil punched stronger at times, Imran was consistently top class for a long time.

Imran> Sobers as well IMO.
 
Imran Khan is possibly the best all-round cricketer that we have seen.
 
No doubt about that. While Botham and Kapil punched stronger at times, Imran was consistently top class for a long time.

Imran> Sobers as well IMO.

Dont agree about Imran being better than Sobers, but that's another debate.

What is undebatable, IMO, is that IK was the greatest all rounder of his era.
 
well if in the future comparison threads are opened we will refer to this thread. kudos for admitting it.
 
I your opinion where does Kapil rank?

#1 at playing against mighty West Indies.

Otherwise he's just equal to whatever exists below Imran/Sobers' level. For reasons, i dont think highly of batting allrounders hence inclined towards Immy than Garry and consider Kallis a fake one. :imran
 
I think Imran averaged over 50 with the bat in last 10 years and less than 20 with the ball, is it correct ?

Phenomenal if it is true.

IMO, these 4 can be rated as :

Batting wise :
1. Botham
2. Kapil
3. Imran
4. Hadlee

Bowling wise :
1. Hadlee
2. Imran (he was fast too)
3. Botham
4. Kapil

Athleticism : Kapil all the way..

Imran was a good captain too.. if you count captaincy in all round ability.
 
#1 at playing against mighty West Indies.

Otherwise he's just equal to whatever exists below Imran/Sobers' level. For reasons, i dont think highly of batting allrounders hence inclined towards Immy than Garry and consider Kallis a fake one. :imran

Sorry for the delay, just had an intense weights and cardio session, not that I dont believe you but could you show stats as to how Kapilwas best against WI, personally I think he was no. 3 ahead of Hadlee, as Hadlee wasn't much of a batsman, even admitted by him.
 
Imran was also the most versatile batsman imo, whilst Kapil and Botham always attacked, he had more allround ability.
 
"As a batsman, he could bat anywhere in the top six, sometimes in the top four, and play any type of innings depending on the circumstance of the game.

"You can use natural saliva, sweat on the ball, it is having a good effect on the game. But you can't use fingernails or anything of that nature. If you are throwing the ball on a rough surface that scruffs the ball. What's wrong with that? You are using the facility allowed to you," he said.

Hadlee admitted that he encountered reverse swing when he was playing but did not know what it was.

"Sarfraz Nawaz (Pakistani pacer) was doing something with the ball. But later we came to know Pakistan had developed or found out what reverse swing is by looking after the ball," he said.

Some key points from the OP


.
 
Imran was also the most versatile batsman imo, whilst Kapil and Botham always attacked, he had more allround ability.

No, I think Botham was not an attacker alone.. he played some gems against aus.. which were not really blind hitting.
 
my ratings as of now

batsman(test and one day combined)
1. Kapildev
2. Imran khan
3. Ian Botham
4. Richard Hadlee

bowlers(test and one day combined)
1. Richard Hadlee
2.Imran Khan
3.Kapildev
4.Ian Botham

fileder(test and one day combined)
1. Kapildev
2. Ian Botham
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Imran Khan

captaincy
1. Imran Khan
2. Kapildev

all rounder(test and one day combined)
1. Imran Khan/Kapil Dev
2. Richard Hadlee
3. Ian Botham
 
No, I think Botham was not an attacker alone.. he played some gems against aus.. which were not really blind hitting.

Im not saying slogging, but they always had an aggresive mindset, you wouldn't trust them to be able to block a whole day, IK could do both, hence IMO, he became the better bat later on.
 
In one area where Imran has slightly edge over Sober or Kallis is the leadership. He was an excellent Captain, the best Pakistan ever had... As a Captain he was a greater fighter, with limited resources he had, he never lost a test series to the mighty WI
At the same time he was good at spotting and nurturing talent... All the talent we had in 90s (Ws, Inzi, Anwar, Sohail, Malik etc) were all born under Imran...

Imran was also not a very talented cricketer but like Steve Waugh very determined... He was the first fast bowler in Asia, the one who started the fast bowling craze in Pakistan, and also the one who popularizes reverse swing in Pakistan domestic circuit and as a weapon in international cricket. People have under estimated his contribution of Imran in creating a legacy or brand of Pakistani Cricket, as we know it in 90s, 90s and 2000s...

His leadership, Charismatic and determination skills are ahead of everybody else... Because of those overall skills I will give him a notch above others...but well my opinion could be very baised ;-)
 
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my ratings as of now

batsman(test and one day combined)
1. Kapildev
2. Imran khan
3. Ian Botham
4. Richard Hadlee

bowlers(test and one day combined)
1. Richard Hadlee
2.Imran Khan
3.Kapildev
4.Ian Botham

fileder(test and one day combined)
1. Kapildev
2. Ian Botham
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Imran Khan

captaincy
1. Imran Khan
2. Kapildev

all rounder(test and one day combined)
1. Imran Khan/Kapil Dev
2. Richard Hadlee
3. Ian Botham

Kapil Dev fanboy? He wasn't as good as you are making him out to be.
 
Imran
Kapil
Botham
Hadlee
______

Kallis
Sobers
^
Both supremely overrated bowlers. How many times has Kallis won South Africa a game with the ball?

Sobers, strike rate of 92. Give me a break :sami
 
Kapil Dev fanboy? He wasn't as good as you are making him out to be.

i hugely evaluate Imran khan too.but i rate Kapil dev in the same class as well.here are my reasons.

Kapil dev was a brutal batsman.his str: rate of 80.91 in the 80s was exceptional.to put it in context even Viv Richards had only 69.28.Kapil was only slightly behind Botham and Imran in runs/inns value.but he far outweighed them in str: rate.Botham had only 60.71 while for Imran it was 47.52.Kapil could keep this aggresiveness across all conditions. Kapil's str: rate of above 95 in one days too was exceptional.and he had
much longevity than other all rounders too in both formats.i have much more to write in this regard .but stopping for now.

w.r.t bowling Kapil is way under rated... i feel.people always look at his test bowling figures alone to declare that he was a much lower bowler.but i would give certain reasons for why i feel the other way.

1.during his playing days Kapil was the lone strike bowler for India.to
have a clear idea about this i did a calculation. i filtered out the 'combined bowling average of all the support bowlers' of both Kapil and Imran in all the test matches they played.i found out that 'combined bowling average of all the support bowlers' for Imran was slightly better than that of Kapil himself.do i need to say much about 'combined bowling average of all the support bowlers' for Kapil? i don't remember the figures
exactly now, but i am sure there was a difference of about 12.definitely being a part of such pathetic bowling unit thru out his career affected Kapil's figures.

2. workload - Kapil played 131 tests in a short span of 16 years in addition to 225 one days.he only missed a single test that India played during his career.that means he turned out to play at every given oppertunity with out taking into account as to whether he was fully fit to play or not at the expense of his career figures.i doubt this was the case with other all rounders.to have an idea about this i hand picked 88 tests(no: of tests that Imran played) of Kapil spread over 'his series with most number of wkts/tests'.i could find that he gathered 351 wkts from these 88 tests.
Not much of a difference from Imran who has 362 wkts from 88 tests.this means non stop playing for country definitely affected his figures.

3. longevity - easy guess here.having played almost 150% of tests as that of Imran it is quite natural his figures would have been affected quite a bit.

so all the 3 above factors combined definitely would have affected his bowling figures by some margin.also he was a slightly better one day bowler than Imran.

Kapil was easily the best fielder of the 4.in captaincy too he was only slightly behind Imran when considering the fact that he led from the front to give India a world cup at the age of 24 years.

so all these combined he is right up there for me.
 
Imran was also the most versatile batsman imo, whilst Kapil and Botham always attacked, he had more allround ability.

Botham could play defensively too when he felt like it, e.g. this 200-ball fifty:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63465.html

Overall I would agree with Sir Richard's comments about the four eighties aces.

Bear in mind that Sir Ian took more test catches than the other three put together.
 
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Stating the obvious!!

Imran Khan is the best all rounder ever!!
His bowling alone puts him in an all time XI (bowlers)!
 
Imran was a cut above the other three legendary all-rounders of the 80's, he might also be better than Gary Sobers depending on whether you're inclined towards a bowling or batting all-rounder.
 
It's obvious that IK was the best all rounder of his time and one of the best all rounder to play the game.

Some key points from the OP

I personally don't think that IK was very versatile batsman who could bat at any position and play defensive/attacking. He batted almost his whole career at 6-8 position when Pakistan was not really filled with 50+ average batsmen. He had the best defensive technique among 4 all rounders.
 
It's obvious that IK was the best all rounder of his time and one of the best all rounder to play the game.



I personally don't think that IK was very versatile batsman who could bat at any position and play defensive/attacking. He batted almost his whole career at 6-8 position when Pakistan was not really filled with 50+ average batsmen. He had the best defensive technique among 4 all rounders.

Remember he batted at #3 in WC final? scored 72

He batted at #3 in 4 ODIs and not a bad result...
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...tart;template=results;type=batting;view=match

Batted at #4 in 8 ODIs not a bad result either...
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...tart;template=results;type=batting;view=match
 
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Remember he batted at #3 in WC final? scored 72

He batted at #3 in 4 ODIs and not a bad result...
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...tart;template=results;type=batting;view=match

Batted at #4 in 8 ODIs not a bad result either...
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...tart;template=results;type=batting;view=match

I wasn't really talking about ODI. My opinion is based on where he played most of his career in tests despite Pakistan batting line up not being filled with 50+ average batsmen.
 
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Botham could play defensively too when he felt like it, e.g. this 200-ball fifty:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63465.html

Overall I would agree with Sir Richard's comments about the four eighties aces.

Bear in mind that Sir Ian took more test catches than the other three put together.

They were all greats and Hadlee and IK were both ATG bowlers, butthanks for the info.
 
If I remember correctly, Krish Srikanth also told the same. Imran was better all-rounder than the other three, but Sobers was the best ever!

I liked Hadlee's bowling and Kapil's batting.
 
Imran
Kapil
Botham
Hadlee
______

Kallis
Sobers
^
Both supremely overrated bowlers. How many times has Kallis won South Africa a game with the ball?

Sobers, strike rate of 92. Give me a break :sami

How many times Imran won Pakistan a game with the bat ?

75% of his Test Runs were scored in drawn/Lost matches.
 
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How many times Imran won Pakistan a game with the bat ?

75% of his Test Runs were scored in drawn/Lost matches.

Imran averaged 50+ with the bat in the last 10 years of his career.

Kallis has never had such a sustained period of excellent performances with the ball.

Besides, not sure how you can hold his percentage of runs in losing causes against him. If anything, it only highlights the fact that he used to score runs when his team were losing. Blame that on his teammates not him.

Play his part, he did :kapil
 
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As a captain I would prefer to have Imran over Sobers, in test matches.

Sobers was a much superior batsman , no doubt , but Imran would more depth to the balance of the side.
 
As a captain I would prefer to have Imran over Sobers, in test matches.

Sobers was a much superior batsman , no doubt , but Imran would more depth to the balance of the side.

Much superior batsman? Dude, he was the greatest ever batsman since Bradman ..... better than both Viv and Sachin.
 
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Much superior batsman? Dude, he was the greatest ever batsman since Bradman ..... better than both Viv and Sachin.

lol. the way that guy mentioned, as if Sobars was a slightly better batsman than Imran Khan. :)
 
The big 4 ranked:

Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Kapil Dev
Ian Botham

Funny how some people are still trying to classify Dev on Imran's level. Not possible fellas.
Imran is the better all round player by a fair margin.
 
The big 4 ranked:

Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Kapil Dev
Ian Botham

Funny how some people are still trying to classify Dev on Imran's level. Not possible fellas.
Imran is the better all round player by a fair margin.

lol. check the ranking in 80s. Kapil Dev was no 1 for several years. Kapil Dev was a better batsman than Imran and Imran was a better bowler. Overall Imran was slightly better than Kapil as an allrounder. its not a huge gap. Why is Hadlee second in the list? just because he said Imran was the best of 4?:)

Hadlee was more like a bowler who can bat a bit. just like Imran. Imran used his limited batting skill wisely whereas Hadlee did not. Both are bowling allrounders.

Kapil and Botham are pretty similar. Both are good swing bowlers and very talented batsmen. Underachieved in batting.
 
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lol. check the ranking in 80s. Kapil Dev was no 1 for several years. Kapil Dev was a better batsman than Imran and Imran was a better bowler. Overall Imran was slightly better than Kapil as an allrounder. its not a huge gap. Why is Hadlee second in the list? just because he said Imran was the best of 4?:)

Hadlee was more like a bowler who can bat a bit. just like Imran. Imran used his limited batting skill wisely whereas Hadlee did not. Both are bowling allrounders.

Kapil and Botham are pretty similar. Both are good swing bowlers and very talented batsmen. Underachieved in batting.



Imran was a much better all-rounder than Kapil. Don't know how Kapil can be rated as a better batsman than Imran with his average of 31. Just cause he score his runs quickly doesn't make him a great batsman.

The difference in their bowling was great. An average of 29 is not even comparable to an average of 22, not to mention the 10 point difference in bowling SR.
 
The big 4 ranked:

Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Kapil Dev
Ian Botham

Hadlee wasn't a good enough batter to be classed as an all-rounder according to Sobers' definition - he wouldn't get picked just as a batter. I'd say the pecking order was:

Batting: Botham > Kapil > Imran > Hadlee

Bowling: Imran > Hadlee > Kapil > Botham

Catching: Botham >>> Kapil > Imran > Hadlee

Overall I'd put Imran second in the all-time list ahead of Miller and behind Sobers.
 
Hadlee wasn't a good enough batter to be classed as an all-rounder according to Sobers' definition - he wouldn't get picked just as a batter. I'd say the pecking order was:

Batting: Botham > Kapil > Imran > Hadlee

Bowling: Imran > Hadlee > Kapil > Botham

Catching: Botham >>> Kapil > Imran > Hadlee

Overall I'd put Imran second in the all-time list ahead of Miller and behind Sobers.

If by catching, you mean athleticism and fitness, why is Botham above Kapil ? If you mean number of catches or ability to take catches, it's a different thing.
 
Who cares about athleticism, when your batting, bowling and cptaincy was so good.a
 
Who cares about athleticism, when your batting, bowling and cptaincy was so good.a

You wouldn't get into an Indian ODI side if you are not a good fielder now..

And no way into an Aus/SA side.. athleticism is not important ?
 
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You wouldn't get into an Indian ODI side if you are not a good fielder now..

And no way into an Aus/SA side.. athleticism is not important ?

The key word in my reply was 'was' indicating that athleticism wasn't such an important thing back then, aswell as that IK was superb in the other three facets of the game, moreover, people are talking of him as if he was a liability on the field, he was extremely fit, for this reason I think he wasn't such a burden on the ground.
 
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i hugely evaluate Imran khan too.but i rate Kapil dev in the same class as well.here are my reasons.

Kapil dev was a brutal batsman.his str: rate of 80.91 in the 80s was exceptional.to put it in context even Viv Richards had only 69.28.Kapil was only slightly behind Botham and Imran in runs/inns value.but he far outweighed them in str: rate.Botham had only 60.71 while for Imran it was 47.52.Kapil could keep this aggresiveness across all conditions. Kapil's str: rate of above 95 in one days too was exceptional.and he had
much longevity than other all rounders too in both formats.i have much more to write in this regard .but stopping for now.

w.r.t bowling Kapil is way under rated... i feel.people always look at his test bowling figures alone to declare that he was a much lower bowler.but i would give certain reasons for why i feel the other way.

1.during his playing days Kapil was the lone strike bowler for India.to
have a clear idea about this i did a calculation. i filtered out the 'combined bowling average of all the support bowlers' of both Kapil and Imran in all the test matches they played.i found out that 'combined bowling average of all the support bowlers' for Imran was slightly better than that of Kapil himself.do i need to say much about 'combined bowling average of all the support bowlers' for Kapil? i don't remember the figures
exactly now, but i am sure there was a difference of about 12.definitely being a part of such pathetic bowling unit thru out his career affected Kapil's figures.

2. workload - Kapil played 131 tests in a short span of 16 years in addition to 225 one days.he only missed a single test that India played during his career.that means he turned out to play at every given oppertunity with out taking into account as to whether he was fully fit to play or not at the expense of his career figures.i doubt this was the case with other all rounders.to have an idea about this i hand picked 88 tests(no: of tests that Imran played) of Kapil spread over 'his series with most number of wkts/tests'.i could find that he gathered 351 wkts from these 88 tests.
Not much of a difference from Imran who has 362 wkts from 88 tests.this means non stop playing for country definitely affected his figures.

3. longevity - easy guess here.having played almost 150% of tests as that of Imran it is quite natural his figures would have been affected quite a bit.

so all the 3 above factors combined definitely would have affected his bowling figures by some margin.also he was a slightly better one day bowler than Imran.

Kapil was easily the best fielder of the 4.in captaincy too he was only slightly behind Imran when considering the fact that he led from the front to give India a world cup at the age of 24 years.

so all these combined he is right up there for me.

Agree with this. Compare kapil with rest of Indian bowlers and it becomes clear why his average would have suffered. Also, He had to play few yewars longer because India couldnt find anyone toi replace him.... Well, It hadnt found anyone till now.
 
Imran
Hadlee
Botham
Kapil

I rate Imran and Hadlee higher because they were ATGs in their main discipline, and more than handy in their secondary discipline. They weren't people who would occasionally string it together in both disciplines in a particular match, which is what some people look at.
 
Imran was a much better all-rounder than Kapil. Don't know how Kapil can be rated as a better batsman than Imran with his average of 31. Just cause he score his runs quickly doesn't make him a great batsman.

The difference in their bowling was great. An average of 29 is not even comparable to an average of 22, not to mention the 10 point difference in bowling SR.

Anyone who has watched kapil and imrans batting can tell you who is a better batsman. Dont just go by stats.
 
The big 4 ranked:

Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Kapil Dev
Ian Botham

Funny how some people are still trying to classify Dev on Imran's level. Not possible fellas.
Imran is the better all round player by a fair margin.

i am the one who put Kapil on Imran's level.besides a 'funny' remark what have you to say about the reasons i elaborated for my conclusion?
 
Imran was a much better all-rounder than Kapil. Don't know how Kapil can be rated as a better batsman than Imran with his average of 31. Just cause he score his runs quickly doesn't make him a great batsman.

The difference in their bowling was great. An average of 29 is not even comparable to an average of 22, not to mention the 10 point difference in bowling SR.

this is the problem of looking at just bat: avg: .i would like here to take the case of two genuine batsmen.Viv Richards and Ken Barrington.the bat average of Viv was only 50.23 and that of Ken was over 58.but yet Viv is considered a legendary batsman while Ken is only one among the greats.why? because of their style of play. Viv dominated the bowlers as his str: rate of 69.28 suggests.( don't forgetting that he didn't wear a helmet too).and Viv had much longevity than Ken too.i find Kapil's and Imran's case exactly similar except that helmet part. For Kapil his str: rate was 80.91 .For Imran it was only 47.52.a difference of 33.39. Kapil's str: rate is monstrous because he far outweighs even Viv by 11.63. to achieve that from the 80's(same period as both Viv and Imran) where batting was extremely difficult considering the general standard of bowling and pitch conditions is exceptional. another thing which reveals as to how dominant Kapil was his str:rate once he passes the score of 74.he has 15 such scores with a runs/inns value of 105.2 and str: rate of 96.45.pls note the str: rate.for Viv this str: rate was only almost 69.28. For Imran, for his 9 scores of above 74, runs/inns was 110.67 while str: rate was only 54.75.that is once Kapil passes the score of 74, he virtually murders the bowling, ie he raises the str:rate by 15.54. for Viv it remains the same as his career str: rate.For Imran it was only an increase of 7.23.another noteworthy thing is Kapils longevity.he batted 184 inns against Imran's 125.

the difference in bat avg: of Imran and Kapil is a true reflection of their style of play and role in the team.while Imran's average was boosted by notouts(credit for not being dismissed though) truly reflecting his defensive style Kapil's case was the exact opposite.He was often left in the company of tail enders to raise the team score to the maximum as he can, there by taking undue risks and hitting all out and getting out even as last man in the process which truly refelcts his low percentage of not outs.so in this case the difference in average is not that vital.
 
Apart From Kallis there is no other decent allrounder in international cricket today.
 
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If by catching, you mean athleticism and fitness, why is Botham above Kapil ? If you mean number of catches or ability to take catches, it's a different thing.

I mean catching ability. Botham was arguably England's greatest ever slip catcher, and also a very good outfielder on the rare occasions he was put there. He averaged 1.3 catches per test, even though he was bowling 20-25% of the overs.
 
I mean catching ability. Botham was arguably England's greatest ever slip catcher, and also a very good outfielder on the rare occasions he was put there. He averaged 1.3 catches per test, even though he was bowling 20-25% of the overs.

I assume, you know enough about Kapil's catching ability to make a comparison and put Botham over him.
 
I assume, you know enough about Kapil's catching ability to make a comparison and put Botham over him.

Just look at the numbers. One is twice as high as the other, despite playing in 2/3 as many tests.
 
Just look at the numbers. One is twice as high as the other, despite playing in 2/3 as many tests.

Dravid has the highest no. of catches in Test cricket, doesn't make him the best catcher ever, does it ?

Unless you make a fair comparison (not in terms of no. of catches) by watching both of them enough, how can you really tell ?
 
Hardly so. Kapil was a better batsman than Imran IMO, and scored his runs faster than anyone. He was a much better bowler than Razzaq and Broad.

What can you expect from someone who started watching cricket after 2000s? He will just check the average on cricinfo. yes Imran has better average than Kapil so a better batsman for him.
 
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What can you expect from someone who started watching cricket after 2000s? He will just check the average on cricinfo. yes Imran has better average than Kapil so a better batsman for him.

You fall for the bait so easily :)))

Obviously Paaji is better than most all rounders. Still not on Imrans level. Accept this and move on.
 
Yeah, Imran was the best of the 4, is the greatest ever bowling allrounder and arguably the best allrounder ever
 
That's not to say Kapil wan't good, he was India's finest allrounder and won them the WC.
 
He could well be the best.

No, Mark Waugh was better catcher than him.. even if he did not take more than 170 catches.. if he had taken 30 catches, I would still rate him.

I watched both Waugh and Dravid fielding in slips.. and I have no doubt Waugh was much better.. and safer.
 
Kapil honestly was a pretty average player..

If he wasnt from a country with a billion plus people, we wouldve forgotten abt him
 
Kapil is obviously better than Razzaq, Broad, et cetera but he just wasn't on Imran's level. The difference is their bowling is obvious and Imran is also statistically superior in the batting department. Imran is also widely regarded as one of the best captains of all time.
 
No, Mark Waugh was better catcher than him.. even if he did not take more than 170 catches.. if he had taken 30 catches, I would still rate him.

I watched both Waugh and Dravid fielding in slips.. and I have no doubt Waugh was much better.. and safer.

Could be.

Of course Waugh kept to some ATG bowlers so the number of chances going to him went up, allowing him to rack up his score.

Hammond, Sobers, Botham, Waugh, Dravid, Hick, Kallis and (surprisingly) Strauss are the standouts for me.
 
Imran the better test player,Kapil the better Odi player, Kapil was the better ODI bowler,Imran was the better test bowler,Imran was slow in batting strike rate,kapil was slow in bowling speeds, Kapil was times the better fielder though,over all it is hard to choose between them,Kapil ended up with more runs and more wickets (2500 AND AROUND 150+ WICKETS) because of his fitness and obviously because he was a far far far better fielder,both greats none the less..peace
 
Just look at the numbers. One is twice as high as the other, despite playing in 2/3 as many tests.

There is also the matter of opportunities. Botham was England's first slip most of the time. Kapil was the second slip of a team where the only bowler of any decent pace was himself.
 
Imran the better test player,Kapil the better Odi player, Kapil was the better ODI bowler,Imran was the better test bowler,Imran was slow in batting strike rate,kapil was slow in bowling speeds, Kapil was times the better fielder though,over all it is hard to choose between them,Kapil ended up with more runs and more wickets (2500 AND AROUND 150+ WICKETS) because of his fitness and obviously because he was a far far far better fielder,both greats none the less..peace

Imran has better bowling stats than Kapil in ODIs and so, his bowling cannot be rated below Kapil's in that format either. At best you would say that both of them were equals in the ODI format.

Anyways, when one is clearly better than the other in the main format, ODIs don't matter all too much
 
There is also the matter of opportunities. Botham was England's first slip most of the time. Kapil was the second slip of a team where the only bowler of any decent pace was himself.

You can take catches off SLAs and leggies too.

Botham stood at second slip mostly.
 
#1 at playing against mighty West Indies.

Otherwise he's just equal to whatever exists below Imran/Sobers' level. For reasons, i dont think highly of batting allrounders hence inclined towards Immy than Garry and consider Kallis a fake one. :imran

Really??? Batsman with 10K runs and 200+ wickets.... as somebody would say... Sachin + Zaheer combined? Then you must not think of Sachin and Zaheer very highly!
 
The first bowler in the history of Test cricket to take 400 wickets also said that Pakistan's Imran Khan is perhaps the best of the four all-rounders of his era -- a select club that includes England's Ian Botham, India's Kapil Dev and himself.

“During the 70s and 80s the battle of the all-rounders I think was a pretty special era -- with Ian Botham from England, Kapil Dev from India, Imran Khan from Pakistan and myself from New Zealand. We were all well aware of what each other was doing around in world cricket. So, whenever we had a one-on-one battle it tended to lift your performance a little bit because you wanted to out-skill and outperform the all-rounder.

“I think of the four of us Imran was a better player simple because he was more consistent than the rest of us. A potent strike bowler, he could bat anywhere in the top four or five in the batting order. Botham was explosive as a batsman and as a wicket-taker. Kapil was there all the time but batting was perhaps the weaker of the four. I like to think my bowling was the stronger of the four,” added one of the finest all-rounders of all time.

He said an all-rounder is a very valuable member of the team but he felt that it would be tough to find a group of lethal all-rounders like them in a changed scenario of the game and with the advent of T20 cricket.

“The game has changed so much today with the advent of T20 cricket and lot more one-day cricket. You have got what is called bits-and-pieces players, those who can do a little bit of both and be effective as far as all-rounders are concerned. It's become harder to get a genuine all-rounder today than in our time simply because of Test cricket, one-day cricket and T20 cricket. And the body can only take so much. When you talk of Jacques Kallis, I give you the greatest all-rounder in the history of the game. You just need to look at the stats and that shows how good he was in all formats of the game. I think he is a special breed,” observed Hadlee.

http://www.thedailystar.net:8080/sports/cricket/audience-all-round-king-1348459
 
No surprise,If sobers is number one than Imran is certainly just behind him. Haven't seen sobers play but he's talked about highly.
 
Imran
Kapil
Botham
Hadlee
______

Kallis
Sobers
^
Both supremely overrated bowlers. How many times has Kallis won South Africa a game with the ball?

Sobers, strike rate of 92. Give me a break :sami

You are underestimating Kallis/Sober a lot here... How many matches Imran won by batting??

Kallis batting stats were equivalent to Schin(54/55 avg, 12,000 runs) and bowling stats same as Zaheer Khan(32 avg, 250+ wickets)...Zaheer was India's main bowler for better part of decade...You also have to understand Kallis was the best batsmen SA has ever produced, and he was doing this with double duty, he was not a medium pacer either, he used to bowl 138-140 avg for first 6/8 years...I rate Kallis very high, same goes for Sobers as well...

Difference between Sobers and Kallis with rest is that they were premium batting allrounders, that does not mean they were any lesser. Sober was also the best batsman of his team(not to mention world) for most part of his career...
 
[MENTION=5869]yasir[/MENTION]

Imran was a more balanced all-rounder than Kallis. Okay is batting is somewhat overrated, but he was a more impactful all-rounder with bat and ball than Kallis and so were Botham and Kapil.

However, I shall reconsider Hadlee's position. His batting was insignificant like Kallis' bowling, and it depends on whether you prefer a batting all-rounder or a bowling all-rounder.

Kallis was a phenomenal Test batsman, but for the most part of his career, he was reduced to a part-timer with the ball. I have followed pretty much his whole Test career from 2000 onwards, and I cannot recall any notable bowling performances.

As far as Sobers is concerned, a brilliant batsman no doubt. However, he was a champion of his time and was lucky that his competition was not the four all-rounders of the 80s. I have serious doubts about his bowling. We are supposed to take Bradman's 99 average at face value and also not question's Sobers' batting average, but the same folks come up with a million excuses for his pathetic part-timer level bowling SR.

I highly doubt that he would have stood out as the best all-rounder in the era of Imran, Kapil and Botham.
 
Camaraderie between Iman and Kapil is quite notable. Kapil always looked up to Imran while Imran always supported Kapil whenever he could.
 
Definitely, Imran was the best of the four.

Batting - Botham> Imran = Kapil >Hadlee

Bowling - Imran> Hadlee>> Kapil> Botham

Among current players, Ashwin has chance to reach the levels of the four although still long way to go to reach there.

As a batsmen, Ashwin is at Hadlee level IMO while as a bowler, he is at Kapil/ Botham level and may surpass both if he performs overseas convincingly. Of course, it's tough to compare spinners with pacers.

Ashwin has been a little lucky as he doesn't have to face ATG fast bowlers or any great spinner and also gets to play half of his games in Indian conditions.
 
No doubt about that. Imran King Khan was the best all rounder while kapil dev came last.

Regards
 
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